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James.
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« on: March 10, 2009, 09:05:12 AM »
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html
The coming evangelical collapse
An anti-Christian chapter in Western history is about to begin. But out of the ruins, a new vitality and integrity will rise.
By Michael Spencer

Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

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James.
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 09:17:50 AM »
Btw, I think his "why is this going to happen?" reasons are serious concerns regardless of whether the "collapse" occurs as he predicts.  I can see people quickly dismissing what he says based on the enthusiasm and zeal of evangelicals (hard to imagine a quick collapse), but witness the Catholic collapse of Western Europe (and even the NE US) and the skepticism lessens significantly.
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2009, 09:17:50 AM »
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Tantor
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 09:21:07 AM »
I agree with the article 100%.. when we took our eyes off the Lord and started looking at the government we made a mistake of epic proportions.
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 09:21:07 AM »
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OneLung
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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 09:24:16 AM »
I have been "preaching" this to everyone for years, but most people just give me that "deer in the headlights" look and then start quoting some random scriptures, which I can only assume means they don't believe me.  It's sad that so many are so far removed from reality they aren't even aware of their own impending demise.
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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 09:24:26 AM »
Quote from: jmg3rd on March 10, 2009, 09:05:12 AM
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html
The coming evangelical collapse
An anti-Christian chapter in Western history is about to begin. But out of the ruins, a new vitality and integrity will rise.
By Michael Spencer

Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

I guess it really depends upon what a person means when he says he is an evangelical. And is that different from what the world means or sees when they say evangelical.  Maybe when the world sees or hears about evangelicals, what they see and hear are some folks who have assumed the position of spokesman for more than just themselves.  Most of those who label themselves as evangelical and elect to speak out are not speaking for me in many cases either religiously or theologically.  Maybe we should not let such views define us. That does not mean the we need to cease speaking out against the wrongs in the world.  But then I usually hesitate to identify with "evangelicals" theologically anyway even if I might tend to agree generally in a moral or political sense.
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OneLung
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 09:31:28 AM »
I agree with you Jimmy, but most of the country lives secular lives and doesn't put that much thought into defining what "Evangelical" may mean. If you start stopping people on the street and asking them to say the first word that comes into their minds when you say the word "Evangelical," most of the responses would be negative. The basic reason for this has already been stated by Tantor.
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« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 09:31:28 AM »
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Jimmy
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« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 09:39:24 AM »
Quote from: OneLung on March 10, 2009, 09:31:28 AM
I agree with you Jimmy, but most of the country lives secular lives and doesn't put that much thought into defining what "Evangelical" may mean. If you start stopping people on the street and asking them to say the first word that comes into their minds when you say the word "Evangelical," most of the responses would be negative. The basic reason for this has already been stated by Tantor.

But there is no need to take our eyes off of the Lord when we look at the government.  We are not to divorce ourselves from the world.  We are in the world.  God has placed us in the world.  Jesus' general reaction to the scribes, Pharasees and Sadduccees was as much a reaction to "government" as it was anything else, simply because they had put themselves into the place of government.
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OneLung
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« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 09:46:32 AM »
The problem goes much deeper than what Tantor stated. The majority of the country today immediately dismisses what evangelicals have to say as being foolish, self-serving and sometimes even psychotic.  How do we reverse that opinion?
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 09:56:30 AM »
Quote from: OneLung on March 10, 2009, 09:46:32 AM
The problem goes much deeper than what Tantor stated. The majority of the country today immediately dismisses what evangelicals have to say as being foolish, self-serving and sometimes even psychotic.  How do we reverse that opinion?

Put the shifting lever in the "R" postion.   That usually works best.
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Tantor
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »
Quote from: OneLung on March 10, 2009, 09:46:32 AM
The problem goes much deeper than what Tantor stated. The majority of the country today immediately dismisses what evangelicals have to say as being foolish, self-serving and sometimes even psychotic.  How do we reverse that opinion?

1.) We need to stop protesting and SERVE the unsaved instead.  No more bombing of abortion clinics or picketing.

2.) We need to get our own houses in order.. we need to deal with teen aged pregnancies, abortions by church goers, etc.

3.) We need to remove ourselves from the public eye and instead let the world look at our deeds instead of what we say.

4.) We need to silence our leaders in public forums.. no more interviews.. no more televised speeches.

5.) We need to actually get the entire christian community involved in service to each other and to the unsaved... as Christ demonstrated.
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 09:57:43 AM »
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 11:58:13 AM »
Quote from: Tantor on March 10, 2009, 09:57:43 AM
1.) We need to stop protesting and SERVE the unsaved instead.  No more bombing of abortion clinics or picketing.

2.) We need to get our own houses in order.. we need to deal with teen aged pregnancies, abortions by church goers, etc.

3.) We need to remove ourselves from the public eye and instead let the world look at our deeds instead of what we say.

4.) We need to silence our leaders in public forums.. no more interviews.. no more televised speeches.

5.) We need to actually get the entire christian community involved in service to each other and to the unsaved... as Christ demonstrated.

6.) We need to stop promoting Christianity as Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson & the Westboro Baptist Church. Christianity does not need "Poster Celebrities". The only celebrity we should be concerned with is Jesus Christ.
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OneLung
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« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2009, 12:03:53 PM »
Maybe we should all go back to being Catholic, Protestant and Baptist. Life was so much simpler then.  Bueno!
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 12:32:30 PM »
Did anyone see this story last night or today? 

Ive heard similar numbers many times lately.  I've heard Randy Harris talk about what looking beyond the halo effect (called "lying" in Texas) reveals about poll numbers--it isn't good, and I've read several books--most notably "UnChristian" that lead this direction.

On the whole, we need to overcome our stubbornness and look back at what Jesus taught and who He was rather than what orgainized Christianity has come to mean.

(btw, I'm going to have to print this out to read it, but is this the "Internet Monk" Michael Spencer?)
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« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2009, 12:32:30 PM »
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OneLung
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« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2009, 12:44:10 PM »
As is typical of MSNBC, they spent 90 seconds saying absolutely nothing.
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« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 12:55:11 PM »
I found this video more interesting...could this be the "department of religion" starting to regulate all churches?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29612053
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