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ed2
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 07:26:44 PM »
God says He will correct our behavior patterns....I don't believe that God just supplied the tools then it's up to us to use them...

He says that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes....if it were up to us to change ourselves or our behavior, we would never change...

God begins the work of salvation and He completes it...He also does everything else in between... It is all of Him and none of me...any change that takes place in my life God does it....

God bless
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 07:55:10 PM »
Keep the discussion on topic.  I split the Sabbath keeping related posts to the Seventh Day Adventist Forum.  I will delete or move posts that veer too far off topic.
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 07:55:10 PM »
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 09:22:50 PM »
Quote from: ed2 on June 05, 2009, 07:26:44 PM
God says He will correct our behavior patterns....I don't believe that God just supplied the tools then it's up to us to use them...
Romans 1:5   By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:  

  1:6   Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:  

Quote
He says that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes....if it were up to us to change ourselves or our behavior, we would never change...
Phill.  2:12   Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.   

 2:13   For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.  

Quote
God begins the work of salvation and He completes it...He also does everything else in between... It is all of Him and none of me...any change that takes place in my life God does it....

God bless
ONLY if we let Him.

 God never forces a person against their will.

If God says to keep a certain commandment, and a person refuses to do so.......God will let that person alone, to suffer the consequences.
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 09:22:50 PM »
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 09:37:45 PM »
If one is not born again (or born from above) he is not a Christian.
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« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 09:53:48 PM »
Quote from: spurly on June 05, 2009, 09:37:45 PM
If one is not born again (or born from above) he is not a Christian.

How can y'all say that - when there are wonderful believers out there - that just have not had the experience of being born again? I don't get it - and I still think it is just a label from society or other Christians that causes more separation.

If I said to a Christian - you are not a  Christian bec you have not been graced by the magical experience of the Holy Spirit - that would be unconscionable.

I do remember when I was in this artist group and after a few weeks I told this older woman, art professor, I was "really into God" ---Well, she immediately said "It shows."  Then the next thing out of her mouth was like an inquisition to me ---"Do you speak in tongues?  Have you had the power of the Holy Spirit come on you like a flame from the sky?"

"Ah, ,,ah...well, no." Gulp.   And her face was like a big "Well, then humphf..."

What happened to the big smile on her face until she found out I didn't speak in tongues??

Labels, labels.. I really sincerely do not get it....we have continued to be the greatest of friends, btw.
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 10:25:06 PM »
Quote from: 3AM on June 05, 2009, 09:22:50 PM
Quote from: ed2 on June 05, 2009, 07:26:44 PM
God says He will correct our behavior patterns....I don't believe that God just supplied the tools then it's up to us to use them...
Romans 1:5   By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:  

  1:6   Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:  

Quote
He says that He will CAUSE us to walk in His statutes....if it were up to us to change ourselves or our behavior, we would never change...
Phill.  2:12   Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.   

 2:13   For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.  

Quote
God begins the work of salvation and He completes it...He also does everything else in between... It is all of Him and none of me...any change that takes place in my life God does it....

God bless
ONLY if we let Him.

 God never forces a person against their will.

If God says to keep a certain commandment, and a person refuses to do so.......God will let that person alone, to suffer the consequences.


scripture does not say "only if we let him"....it says HE WILL.....

i'm glad you included vs 13 as so many ppl don't...it says GOD works in us according to His will and good pleasure....not that we work in us according to our will and good pleasure...

vs 12 not referring to salvation by works but for the believers responsibility for an active pursuit of obedience in the process of sanctification...(note how Paul starts vs 12)...so then my beloved (already saved folks)....then he says that they have always obeyed....

the whole context of this passage is reminding theses believers to be a light in a crooked and perverse generation...

note that they are already saved so the "work out your own salvation" refers to the believers responsibility to keep pursuing obedience....

God bless
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 10:25:06 PM »
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« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 10:30:21 AM »
The converting power of God can transform inherited and cultivated tendencies; for the religion of Jesus is uplifting.
 "Born again" means a transformation, a new birth in Christ Jesus.

Being born-again means God is going to change you...to be like Jesus Christ, in character.

     Let us instruct our friends and neighbors, in the teachings of the God's Law....which will bring peace of mind and happiness.

 If you will call, the Lord will answer you.
He will say, Here I am; what would you have Me do for you ?

Heaven is linked with earth that every soul may be enabled to fulfill his mission.

The Lord loves these obedient children.
He wants them brought up with an understanding of their high calling. 

Balanced by religious principle, you may climb to any height you please.
We would be glad to see you rising to the noble elevation God designs that you shall reach.

Jesus loves people; and He is not pleased to see them grow up with uncultivated, undeveloped talents.

They may become strong men/women of firm principle, fitted to be intrusted with high responsibilities, and to this end they may lawfully strain every nerve. 

     There are responsibilities for every one to bear; and we can fulfill life's grand mission only when these responsibilities are fully accepted, and faithfully and conscientiously discharged. 
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 02:38:00 PM »
Elaine, why do you say being born again is a magical feeling? Becoming a Christian IS being born again.

Non-Christians can do good things Some of the best acting folks I know are not Christians.

I think you may be confusing what some refer to as Holy Spirit baptism.

Plus there is no such thing as a Christian that has not been born again.
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2009, 03:42:27 PM »
 Being born again, is not the same thing as being saved.

They are 2 diffferent things.

1.) Being born-again, means a person has to learn how to think, in a different way.
 They are just begining to learn, how the Christian thing works.


2.) Being Saved, on the other hand,  means a person has already learned what Christian principles, is all about.

 They have learned how to resisit temptations, which lead to committing sin.

They have learned how to rely upon Jesus Christ, and the promises He has made, in the Bible to overcome any and all sinful temptations, that comes their way.
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2009, 03:50:18 PM »
A "Born Again Christian" is a redundant phrase just like a "Believing Christian".

The Holy Spirit equips us through the process of sanctification to change our ways and behaviors. I believe the gift of the Holy Spirit comes at baptism. (Acts 2:38)
We are buried with him in baptism, re-enacting his death burial and resurrection. We come out of the waters of baptism a new creature, to wlk in newness of life, by the power of the Holy Spirit (sanctification process again).
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Proverbs 3: 5-6  Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.

                                          
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2009, 03:50:18 PM »
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2009, 03:51:41 PM »
Quote from: 3AM on June 06, 2009, 03:42:27 PM
Being born again, is not the same thing as being saved.

They are 2 diffferent things.

1.) Being born-again, means a person has to learn how to think, in a different way.
 They are just begining to learn, how the Christian thing works.


2.) Being Saved, on the other hand,  means a person has already learned what Christian principles, is all about.

 They have learned how to resisit temptations, which lead to committing sin.

They have learned how to rely upon Jesus Christ, and the promises He has made, in the Bible to overcome any and all sinful temptations, that comes their way.

Interesting. I'm thinking most folks who use the term would have written this exactly the opposite.
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2009, 09:38:31 PM »
Quote from: 3AM on June 05, 2009, 07:03:37 PM
Always remember.......Christianity, is for the purpose of changing you, from what you once were, into the person who will be fit for heaven.

In other words: you must make yourself, 'safe to save'.

God cannot take anyone into heaven, if they retain the same bad habits, and behaviors they had before they came to Jesus Christ.

Few people realize the responsibility they have in correcting their own behavior patterns.

God does HIS part...and, the individual must do their part.

The Plan of Salvation is made up of God providing the 'tools'....and, we Christians, do our part in using the 'tools' God has provided us.







i disagree .

being born of God becoming christian is simply believing

Being born again (Christianity ) is belieiving in Gods great exchange -----www.crossofchrist-wels.net/exchange.html
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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2009, 12:04:43 PM »
Quote from: 3AM on June 05, 2009, 07:03:37 PM
Always remember.......Christianity, is for the purpose of changing you, from what you once were, into the person who will be fit for heaven.

In other words: you must make yourself, 'safe to save'.

God cannot take anyone into heaven, if they retain the same bad habits, and behaviors they had before they came to Jesus Christ.

Few people realize the responsibility they have in correcting their own behavior patterns.

God does HIS part...and, the individual must do their part.

The Plan of Salvation is made up of God providing the 'tools'....and, we Christians, do our part in using the 'tools' God has provided us.





Quote from: ex cathedra on June 06, 2009, 09:38:31 PM


i disagree .

being born of God becoming christian is simply believing
If that were true....satan also believes.

 Does that make him a Christian ?


Quote
Being born again (Christianity ) is belieiving in Gods great exchange -----[
The Bible says to prove your works.

 Meaning,  a Christian proves their beilef by what they say and do.

Galations   6:4   But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

2 Corinthians   13:5   Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 
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1 Peter  4:17   For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ? 

God's 'Investigative' Judgment Day
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« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2009, 12:04:43 PM »
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2009, 04:13:51 PM »
Quote from: 3AM on June 06, 2009, 03:42:27 PM
Being born again, is not the same thing as being saved.

They are 2 diffferent things.

1.) Being born-again, means a person has to learn how to think, in a different way.
 They are just begining to learn, how the Christian thing works.

I'm trying hard to come to terms with this definition of born again. Jesus
mentioned 2 necessary conditions for the born again process: water and
Holy Spirit (John 3:5). Both are missing from your defifnition.

Quote
2.) Being Saved, on the other hand,  means a person has already learned what Christian principles, is all about.

 They have learned how to resisit temptations, which lead to committing sin.

They have learned how to rely upon Jesus Christ, and the promises He has made, in the Bible to overcome any and all sinful temptations, that comes their way.

Are you saying then that once one is born again, s/he stops committing sin?
That can't be. Born again Christians still fall under temptation for the Bible
says: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not
in us ... and we make him (God) a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:8,10)
Elsewhere, Paul who was definitely born again laments: "I do not do the good
that I want, but the evil that I do not want is what I do ..." (Rom 7:19,24). Peter
was also born again, yet he committed a most grievious sin of denial (Matt 26:74;
cf Matt 10:32-33).

I see two wrong ideas here about being born again and being saved. For one,
when one is born again, s/he is still capable of committing sin. Secondly, no one is
saved while they are still wearing their mortal bodies. One is saved only when
one dies and is judged and NOT when one claims to be born again and shouting
"Lord, Lord ..." (Matt 7:22-23).

Born again is really a continual, ongoing process. Everyone is working towards
being saved. Unfortunately, every one is still capable of committing sin, even with
all the graces the so-called born again claims they have. Let's hear Paul again:
"An athlete is not crowned (that is, won salvation) unless he completes the race
according to the rules.' (2 Tim 2:5).

God bless us all.
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