In the first century, the common drink at any main family meal was wine mixed with water at apx 1part wine and 3 parts water.  It was served to everyone at the table.  Children would have an extra part or two of water.  The only time undiluted wine was served was for special occassions and feasts such as the Passover.  Jesus drank wine in diluted form from the time he was a boy based on the customs and culture of the time.  He would have made pure, undiluted wine of the highest quality for the wedding feast and would have had pure undiluted wine at every Passover he celebrated, especially with his disciples.  While the people of the 1st century had no clue as to germs and microscopic organisms, they were apparently knowledgable enough to know that adding a little alcohol to their water kept them healthy.

If drinking in moderation were a sin as some believe it is, then Jesus was not without sin as he was a drinker in moderation.  Legalism and extremism in the church has many consequences and making Jesus into a sinner is one that is just not acceptable to this poster.

Where do I fit in Kensington?  I have a 6-pack of longnecks in my fridge, and whenever I'm having trouble sleeping, I'll drink one and it puts me to sleep.

Is "meat offered to idols" et al concerning a weaker brother fit in this discussion?

I know some try to substitute "meat offered to idols" with "alcohol", but the point of causing a weaker brother does have merit and Paul makes that clear.  It seems to me that he was talking of deliberate actions of 'stronger' christians celebrating their freedom with KNOWLEDGE to the detriment of weaker unknowledgable brothers.   Not so much perhaps of  "don't eat meat offered to idols just in case somebody just might happen to see you eating the meat offered to idols"  but I could be wrong.   What is worth causing a fellow believer to stumble?

I'll go one step further and say it hinders the understanding for the non believer... the drunkard.  Who see's Christians drinking and says to himself... "Why should I get saved?...  They drink"...   We are the light, the hands of Jesus that they see.  When they have a drink and we have a drink.... they don't see the difference in the saved and the unsaved.  JMHO.

The very little alcohol I consume in a year -- which includes medicinal preparations as well as the occasional beer and very rare wine with a fancy meal ---

Has nothing to do with the out-of-control drunk in the gutter -- nor with the still "OK" on the surface alcoholic who is still functional at job and church but eats his family up alive every night at home. (Just to mention two average stereotypical examples.)

Of course I would expect neither one to be able to use alcohol the way I do; of course I would never expect them to somehow be with me at an event or a meal and join me in an inky-black porter or microbrewed tap amber.  I would never wave my liberties in their faces and especially I'd never want them to join me in exercising what is liberty for me but has been a trap and a curse for them.

Neither will I pretend I never use alcohol. Neither will I twist Scripture into whatever shape a good disciple of Welch and the Temperance Movement would like, as I have seen done from time to time over the years.

I don't think that direction in the OT --  to buy alcohol and drink it as part of what you bought to sacrifice and celebrate the holy days -- was talking about beer.  IIRC it was direction to buy "strong drink".  Was beer included?

The culture and agriculture of the time included cultivation of grains, but vineyards were at least as common if not more so.  They also created "strong drink" from several othersources that we don't use for that purpose.  Date wine and palm wine were normal there in addition to vino.

More info than you needed or wanted. 

kensington


I would have to disagree with that, especially with the Passover.  The cup in the Passover is the dividing mark of the different parts of the Passover.  It is very important.  There were four cups in the Passover.  Each cup had specific meaning.  Each participant had his own cup which was refilled with kosheror Passover wine.  We all know Jesus used the 3rd cup to represent his blood that he would shed because it had a special meaning in the Passover the Cup of Redemption.  A cup of wine in Jewish customs from very early in their history was used to seal major contracts.  The table and the wine was symbolic of a covenant.  The marriage, the betrothal, special contracts were all sealed with a cup of wine, normally while sitting at a table, which is another reason Jesus used a portion of the Passover so his disciples would understand the importance of the covenant that was going to be sealed with Jesus' blood on Calvary.

In everyday life, yes, meals were simple.  I won't disagree with you on that.  However, it is very important to understand that wine was an important part of that meal.  It was diluted but it was still wine and still had a small amount of alcohol in it.  It is believed that the parents of children would dilute it slightly more than the adult version. However, I have not found a strong basis for that belief other than common sense.  The wine of the day was not quite as haigh in alcohol content but it still had alot of medicinal properties for sterilization and health, even when diluted.

If we declare all alcohol to be a sin, and I have heard that preached for 50 of my 61 years of life, then we make Jesus a sinner because, as a Jew, he consumed alcohol all his life.  If we understand anything done in excess, including the consumption of alcohol, as a sin, we no longer have a problem with legalism and straining at interpretation to make it appear Jesus would not use alcohol even though he supplied pure high quality wine to the guests at the wedding feast.  This view then agrees with Scripture regarding Jesus turning water into the finest wine or Jesus drinking the Passover wine, which was not the pasturized grape juice that Dr. Welch invented in the mid 1800's to go along with his anti-alcohol views.

Regardless of whether there are some or many who abuse alcohol or any other substance provided by God, it does not make the use of the substance wrong when done in moderation.


Actually, I kind of wonder the same thing because there is a Jewish holiday where drinking in excess is allowed as part of the celebration.  I just wonder if it was like that during the time of Jesus and, if so, how did he handle that particular feast/holiday.