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Author Topic: Im confused about something I just read.. "for the wages against sin is death"  (Read 462 times)
Susan2001
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« on: July 11, 2009, 11:37:42 AM »
This is what I read: "you must know that that the penalty for sin is death in hell. for the wages of sin is death.. many people feel that they will go to heaven because they do more good than bad.  Others believe that because they have been baptized, they will go to Heaven when they die.  Still others are trusting in their Church for eternal life.  The Bible does not say that the wages of sin is good works, baptism or church membership. The bible says that the wages of sin is death."

Can somehere put this in simpler terms? I understand the part "do more good than bad".  The rest of it I don't understand, especially about the baptism sentence and how  it ties in with this paragraph that  states you MUST KNOW that the penalty for sin is death.     I do understand that punishment for sin is death.  

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 11:48:47 AM by Susan2001 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 12:24:58 PM »



          Folks I'm really glad I don't work for wages.  Thank you JESUS, AMEN.   Tipping hat
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2009, 12:24:58 PM »
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM »

Dear Susan, I reckon Brother Walker said it as good as all the following, but this might give you some scripture to consider.

KJV - Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Douay - For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ESV - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
----------------------------
This are talking of physical death; I have no idea which Bible you have that says that sin of a brother is to hell. And even then all sin for the believer is not unto death as shown below.

1 John 5:16  "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." The result of this instruction is to be done as in the following two verses.
---------------------------- 
1 Corinthians 5:1 is a type of sin of a brother unto death. "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
 
1 Corinthians 5:5  "To deliver such an one (A Brother) unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Even then, in 2 Corinthians 2:6-8 Paul instructs the assembly to allow the man expelled to come back after having received such punishment for a while showing this also was not sending the one committing fornication to hell.

1 Corinthians 5:6  Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
1 Corinthians 5:7  So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
1 Corinthians 5:8  Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
---------------------------- 
What we do or not do as Christians in works of righteous pertain to rewards below.

1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 ----------------------------
There is also correction for the believer. Hebrews 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
 
In Jesus' name - larry2
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM »
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 06:42:25 PM »
What she said, sin brings death, but Jesus died for all our sins, If we believe and accept Him and what HE has done, baptism and church cannot save you Only Jesus.

in His Love
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 03:11:20 AM »
Jesus said 'Love your neighbour as yourself and love your God with all your heart, soul and strength. For on this hang all the law and the prophets'.

In otherwords this is what it's all about.

If you always try to stick to those two as a christian the best you can, you can't go wrong. Part of the loving God part is submission. But he'll show you that as you grow. Everything is about love. Ultimatly. 1 John 4:16
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 06:41:28 AM »
Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM

Dear Susan, I reckon Brother Walker said it as good as all the following, but this might give you some scripture to consider.

KJV - Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Douay - For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ESV - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
----------------------------
This are talking of physical death; I have no idea which Bible you have that says that sin of a brother is to hell. And even then all sin for the believer is not unto death as shown below.

Why would you think that physical death is in view here?  I think some might see physical death as well as eternal death, but I think the general consensus is that Paul intends the eternal death.  Paul is comparing the wages versus the gift.  One stands opposed to the other;  eternal life is not the alternative to physical death.  No one escapes that.  It is condemnation of eternal punishment that is in view here.  It is salvation from that wrath of God that Paul is talking about.  That is the message of the entire chapter.
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 06:41:28 AM »
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 08:05:36 AM »
OK Susan...aside from all of the Christianese and scripture thrown at you.

Lets look at what you know to be true and work with that.

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The reason the author (john) wrote this is because God has wanted a dialogue with us even though we are sinful. So He called Jesus the Word...The love of God for us what was usually written/spoken into a mortal man so that He could even hang out with us.

But because He looked, talked, and walked and lived like any other mortal man no one wanted to believe that this man was indeed God himself. So it took faith to believe that what this "guy" was saying was indeed the very words of God...because it was God.

And that Faith and Love we have for God is the focus of this next passage

Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God


Because we love God and do everything as much as we possibly can to be like the example Jesus set for us we get to become one of God's kids.

Faith and Love...there ain't nothing more to it. Not works or balances or anything else...Simply faith and Love...for this we get the unwarranted favor of Christ's love for us and adoption as one of His kids.
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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 08:18:08 AM »
Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM

Dear Susan, I reckon Brother Walker said it as good as all the following, but this might give you some scripture to consider.

KJV - Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Douay - For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ESV - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
----------------------------
This is talking of physical death; I have no idea which Bible you have that says that sin of a brother is to hell. And even then all sin for the believer is not unto death as shown below.
Quote from: Jimmy on July 12, 2009, 06:41:28 AM
Why would you think that physical death is in view here?  I think some might see physical death as well as eternal death, but I think the general consensus is that Paul intends the eternal death.  Paul is comparing the wages versus the gift.  One stands opposed to the other;  eternal life is not the alternative to physical death.  No one escapes that.  It is condemnation of eternal punishment that is in view here.  It is salvation from that wrath of God that Paul is talking about.  That is the message of the entire chapter.

Quote
Dear Jimmy, to answer this I have to use the previous scriptural evidence I used. As you realize that I believe we have eternal life as believers, and not conditional life, and so on that point I reckon we'll just have to disagree.

Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM

This are talking of physical death; I have no idea which Bible you have that says that sin of a brother is to hell. And even then all sin for the believer is not unto death as shown below.

1 John 5:16  "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." The result of this instruction is to be done as in the following two verses.
---------------------------- 
1 Corinthians 5:1 is a type of sin of a brother unto death. "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
 
1 Corinthians 5:5  "To deliver such an one (A Brother) unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Even then, in 2 Corinthians 2:6-8 Paul instructs the assembly to allow the man expelled to come back after having received such punishment for a while showing this also was not sending the one committing fornication to hell.

1 Corinthians 5:6  Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
1 Corinthians 5:7  So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
1 Corinthians 5:8  Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
---------------------------- 
What we do or not do as Christians in works of righteous pertain to rewards below.

1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 ----------------------------
There is also correction for the believer. Hebrews 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
 

In Jesus' name - larry2
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 09:04:02 AM »
Quote from: larry2 on July 12, 2009, 08:18:08 AM
Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM

Dear Susan, I reckon Brother Walker said it as good as all the following, but this might give you some scripture to consider.

KJV - Romans 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Douay - For the wages of sin is death. But the grace of God, life everlasting, in Christ Jesus our Lord.

ESV - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
----------------------------
This is talking of physical death; I have no idea which Bible you have that says that sin of a brother is to hell. And even then all sin for the believer is not unto death as shown below.
Quote from: Jimmy on July 12, 2009, 06:41:28 AM
Why would you think that physical death is in view here?  I think some might see physical death as well as eternal death, but I think the general consensus is that Paul intends the eternal death.  Paul is comparing the wages versus the gift.  One stands opposed to the other;  eternal life is not the alternative to physical death.  No one escapes that.  It is condemnation of eternal punishment that is in view here.  It is salvation from that wrath of God that Paul is talking about.  That is the message of the entire chapter.

Quote
Dear Jimmy, to answer this I have to use the previous scriptural evidence I used. As you realize that I believe we have eternal life as believers, and not conditional life, and so on that point I reckon we'll just have to disagree.

I still do not understand. Of course we have eternal life as believers.  So what does that have to do with the fact that Paul is contrasting haveing eternal life with with not having eternal life.  He proclaims that sin is the difference.

The entire chapter is speaking of just how one separates himself from the sin that leads to not having eternal life.


Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM

This are talking of physical death; I have no idea which Bible you have that says that sin of a brother is to hell. And even then all sin for the believer is not unto death as shown below.

1 John 5:16  "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it." The result of this instruction is to be done as in the following two verses.
---------------------------- 
1 Corinthians 5:1 is a type of sin of a brother unto death. "It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
 
1 Corinthians 5:5  "To deliver such an one (A Brother) unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Even then, in 2 Corinthians 2:6-8 Paul instructs the assembly to allow the man expelled to come back after having received such punishment for a while showing this also was not sending the one committing fornication to hell.

1 Corinthians 5:6  Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
1 Corinthians 5:7  So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
1 Corinthians 5:8  Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
---------------------------- 
What we do or not do as Christians in works of righteous pertain to rewards below.

1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 ----------------------------
There is also correction for the believer. Hebrews 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
 

In Jesus' name - larry2
[/quote][/quote]

In 1 Corintians 3 the work that Paul is talking about is not the day to day activities of the Christian.  He is talking about the work of building up the Kingdom.  He is talking about the work of bringing others to Christ through the gosple message.  He is talking about leadership and not attaching to that leadership; but rather to Jesus, the cornerstone of the foundation laid by the apostles and prophets.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 01:57:19 PM »
Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM


1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
In Jesus' name - larry2



So you are saying, make that, God's inspired word is saying,  that work IS required for a reward.

And that goes hand in hand with what is said in the book of Revelation.  Let's read it;

Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there IS more to getting your reward than just 'Grace' alone!




.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 01:57:19 PM »
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« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 02:14:43 PM »
Quote from: Eccl12:13 on July 12, 2009, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM


1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
In Jesus' name - larry2



So you are saying, make that, God's inspired word is saying,  that work IS required for a reward.

And that goes hand in hand with what is said in the book of Revelation.  Let's read it;

Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there IS more to getting your reward than just 'Grace' alone!




.


How so? Ho do you get your name in the Book of Life, and what is it?
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« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 05:32:41 PM »
Quote from: llewksgood on July 12, 2009, 02:14:43 PM
Quote from: Eccl12:13 on July 12, 2009, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: larry2 on July 11, 2009, 12:57:43 PM


1 Corinthians 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 
In Jesus' name - larry2



So you are saying, make that, God's inspired word is saying,  that work IS required for a reward.

And that goes hand in hand with what is said in the book of Revelation.  Let's read it;

Rev.20
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

So there IS more to getting your reward than just 'Grace' alone!




.


How so? Ho do you get your name in the Book of Life, and what is it?

You get your name in Gods' book of life by being obedient.  And what's in is it what you will be jugded by......Your WORKS!





.
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