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Author Topic: Is eating pork a sin?  (Read 1763 times)
farouk
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« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2009, 03:11:37 PM »

T:

Yes, Galatians is a very good reference point.

There is clearly a dietary aspect too; we can't expect New Testament believers from a Gentile background especially to go under the ceremonial dietary laws of Jews in the Old Testament. This is what Paul says also; I'll get the reference.

Pretty much the entire letter to the Galatians.  I just re-read the entire book and was going to try and pull out some quotes.. but the entire book needs to be read to understand the gravity of the situation.


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John 3.16 contains great theology, without doubt.

Read God's Word prayerfully every day; it's a joy and privilege.

If folks feel they must have TATTOOS, have you considered having faith related designs tattooed?

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« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2009, 03:13:27 PM »

Mr fish:

Exactly.

Take care.


"It is not what enters one's mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one." (Matt. 15:11)



farouk----

Thanks.  Jesus says it clearly.  What enters a person is not what defiles them, but what comes out of their mouth.  Is God more concerned with the guy eating a BLT, or with the guy cussing out his own mother?  Crying and sad.

Is FOOD the topic in Matt.15?  Remember now.....precept upon precept!  Now let's read the REAL topic;

Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

So the issue that the Pharisees had was with the washing of hands, NOT FOOD! Jesus then answers with the following;

[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

It is not the food that defileth a man but what comes out.  But remember the topic is about the washing of hands.  So is Jesus at any point saying you can eat whatever you want?  NO!  Let's continue;

[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Jesus tells us it is the evil that man does that defile a man.  Now let's see how Jesus ends this conversation;

[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Again, Jesus answers the question that was put before Him by the Pharisees, BUT TO EAT WITH UNWASHEN HANDS DEFILETH NOT A MAN!

That was the question presented to Jesus and that was the question answered.

At what point did Jesus say ANYTHING about God's Dietary laws being done away with.

Let's look at it again in Mark;

Mark 7
[2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Did they find fault with WHAT they ate?  No!  They found fault with the fact that they ate without washing their hands.

[3] For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Again, the problem they have is with the fact that the disciples did not WASH their hands.  At what point is God's dietary law mentioned?  It is not!

[4] And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

Not only did wash they wash there hands a lot, but everything else.  Again this is NOT about food.

[5] Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

AGAIN they ask, "Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?"  Can there be ANY doubt as to what the Pharisees have an issue with?

The ONLY thing mentioned is the washing of hands, washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

How can ANYONE say this is about FOOD?  Let's read Jesus' reply;

[14] And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
[15] There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

So is Jesus saying God's dietary laws are done away?  NO!  Was the topic even about food?  NO!  Jesus ends by saying the samething He said in Matt.  " All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. "

Again....after really reading the scriptures, even babes in the word can see that the subject of this conversation had NOTHING to do with WHAT food was being eaten, but instead with unwashed hands.

Sell your wares elsewhere. 


.


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« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2009, 03:13:27 PM »

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farouk
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« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2009, 03:16:28 PM »

Not food. Well, yes. The food aspect of Peter's vision in Acts 10 is exactly to say, don't let dietary qualms keep you from Gospel proclamation - and eating with - Gentiles.
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John 3.16 contains great theology, without doubt.

Read God's Word prayerfully every day; it's a joy and privilege.

If folks feel they must have TATTOOS, have you considered having faith related designs tattooed?

(And try vacationing in the South: plenty of sun, and some great churches down there!)
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« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2009, 03:16:28 PM »

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Eccl12:13
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« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2009, 03:24:39 PM »

Both aspects are present.



What was Peters conclusion?  Not only Peter, but what was the final conclusion of the rest of the Jews in Jerusalem?

Did EITHER group say, Hey...this IS about Food?  NO!  They concluded that the Gentiles were now grafted into the fold.

.

And then he was rebuked by Paul...


That's your BEST come back?

.
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Tantor
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« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2009, 03:55:36 PM »

Both aspects are present.



What was Peters conclusion?  Not only Peter, but what was the final conclusion of the rest of the Jews in Jerusalem?

Did EITHER group say, Hey...this IS about Food?  NO!  They concluded that the Gentiles were now grafted into the fold.

.

And then he was rebuked by Paul...


That's your BEST come back?

.

It's not a competition.  Paul rebuked Peter for reverting to Jewish customs and Laws by not sitting with Gentiles during meals.  He went on to rebuke him for preaching a different Gospel.

Which is exactly what you are doing... you are preaching a different Gospel... which in reality is no Gospel at all.

Paul would undoubtedly do the same rebuking to you.  Which is why my reply was short and sweet.. Paul does it so much better then I ever could.

for example

Quote
Paul Opposes Peter
 11When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

Peter was becoming a Judiazer (just like you) and Paul put him back in his place.

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fish153
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« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2009, 04:01:11 PM »

Mr fish:

Exactly.

Take care.


"It is not what enters one's mouth that defiles that person; but what comes out of the mouth is what defiles one." (Matt. 15:11)



farouk----

Thanks.  Jesus says it clearly.  What enters a person is not what defiles them, but what comes out of their mouth.  Is God more concerned with the guy eating a BLT, or with the guy cussing out his own mother?  Crying and sad.

Is FOOD the topic in Matt.15?  Remember now.....precept upon precept!  Now let's read the REAL topic;

Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

So the issue that the Pharisees had was with the washing of hands, NOT FOOD! Jesus then answers with the following;

[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

It is not the food that defileth a man but what comes out.  But remember the topic is about the washing of hands.  So is Jesus at any point saying you can eat whatever you want?  NO!  Let's continue;

[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Jesus tells us it is the evil that man does that defile a man.  Now let's see how Jesus ends this conversation;

[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Again, Jesus answers the question that was put before Him by the Pharisees, BUT TO EAT WITH UNWASHEN HANDS DEFILETH NOT A MAN!

That was the question presented to Jesus and that was the question answered.

At what point did Jesus say ANYTHING about God's Dietary laws being done away with.

Let's look at it again in Mark;

Mark 7
[2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

Did they find fault with WHAT they ate?  No!  They found fault with the fact that they ate without washing their hands.

[3] For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Again, the problem they have is with the fact that the disciples did not WASH their hands.  At what point is God's dietary law mentioned?  It is not!

[4] And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

Not only did wash they wash there hands a lot, but everything else.  Again this is NOT about food.

[5] Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

AGAIN they ask, "Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?"  Can there be ANY doubt as to what the Pharisees have an issue with?

The ONLY thing mentioned is the washing of hands, washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

How can ANYONE say this is about FOOD?  Let's read Jesus' reply;

[14] And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
[15] There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

So is Jesus saying God's dietary laws are done away?  NO!  Was the topic even about food?  NO!  Jesus ends by saying the samething He said in Matt.  " All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. "

Again....after really reading the scriptures, even babes in the word can see that the subject of this conversation had NOTHING to do with WHAT food was being eaten, but instead with unwashed hands.

Sell your wares elsewhere. 


.




Eccl---

LOL---you are really pushing it.   It's obvious Jesus is talking about cleansing one's hands before eating.  But when he says "It is not what enters a man's mouth that defiles him. but what comes out of his mouth that defiles him"  he is OBVIOUSLY talking about EATING FOOD.  One washes their hands BEFORE EATING ---Jesus was telling them that handwashings, and what you eat thereafter does not defile you.  It is what COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH that defiles the person.   It is very OBVIOUS.
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« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2009, 04:01:11 PM »

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Nevertheless
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Set a guard over my mouth, O Lord!

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« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2009, 09:19:45 PM »

Let’s see what Jesus said, “…Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven…” (Matthew 5:18,19).

The Law has been fulfilled.

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« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2009, 10:17:34 PM »

Eccl12:13 and bro.tan:

Do you guys sacrifice animals for your sins?  If not, why are you selectively choosing which part of the Mosaic law is applicable?
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« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2009, 11:23:08 AM »

Eccl12:13 and bro.tan:

Do you guys sacrifice animals for your sins?  If not, why are you selectively choosing which part of the Mosaic law is applicable?

Now why would I do that when the sacrificial law was the ONLY law that was nailed to the cross?  Hince the veil ripping in two!
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fish153
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« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2009, 02:06:39 PM »

Last night I took (5) strips of bacon and fried them until they were crispy, but not overcooked.  I then toasted some Sourdough bread and spread mayonnaise on it generously.  I placed the bacon, some nicely sliced tomato, a couple of thin slices of onion, and a some IceBerg lettuce between the toasted bread. I then ate it.

I didn't feel I needed to confess this as a sin afterwards.  It sure tasted good.  Smile

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« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2009, 02:06:39 PM »

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Stucky
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« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2009, 03:37:50 PM »

Is eating pork a sin?

Mohammed said it is.   No worries
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scarey isn't it?

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« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2009, 03:56:03 PM »

Ya know...this is just like a discussion with a hyper-calvinst about their altar calls.

 Banging head against wall Banging head against wall Banging head against wall

But in the meantime to all of you Pork and ham sandwich munchers out there...

I just finished eating three fried pork chops...

Mk 7:19 For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) NIV
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« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2009, 03:59:28 PM »

Is eating pork a sin?


Yes, if you're a pig! it would be considered cannibalism.  Frowning

No, If you are a human.  Rolling on floor laughing

It's just that simple.
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« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2009, 03:59:28 PM »

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fish153
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« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2009, 05:45:01 PM »

Francis Bacon (writer),  Mia Hamm (soccer player) and Landon Pigg (singer) all endorse pork.   Smile
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« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2009, 06:16:59 PM »

Only on Fridays.   Priest
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