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sopranette
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2008, 06:56:32 PM »
The first inkling that a dictatorship is coming is the outlawing of guns.  Those who would give up their freedom for security deserve neither. (to paraphrase....I'm too tired to look for the exact quote).

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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 07:57:36 PM »
Quote from: Bonnie on November 10, 2008, 06:17:52 PM
I don't like guns and the intruder would probably wind up taking it from me and killing me with it.

Maybe I'll get a new BB.  Do they still make those things?  Pondering
A paintball gun would work better than a BB gun.  At least then they'd know to look for the guy with the fluorescent pink and yellow splotches! Rolling on floor laughing
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2008, 07:57:36 PM »
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 08:03:36 PM »
Quote from: jmg3rd on November 10, 2008, 07:57:36 PM
Quote from: Bonnie on November 10, 2008, 06:17:52 PM
I don't like guns and the intruder would probably wind up taking it from me and killing me with it.

Maybe I'll get a new BB.  Do they still make those things?  Pondering
A paintball gun would work better than a BB gun.  At least then they'd know to look for the guy with the fluorescent pink and yellow splotches! Rolling on floor laughing

One of the young men in the church I used to attend showed some of us his thigh after a prior evening of paintball.  He was bruised --huge and very dark.  I was shocked at the severity of that bruise.
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2008, 08:03:36 PM »
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2008, 08:30:38 PM »
Quote from: chosenone on November 10, 2008, 05:52:07 PM
I am very pleased that in the uk owning a gum is not allowed unless you have a special licence for maybe a farmer or whatever. The more guns that are around and available the more people get shot. Thankfully most police officers here still dont carry guns either except special forces who are called out if there is an incident involving a firearm, which is still rare.
Of course there are some illegal guns but the general population just dont have them or want them., and long may it stay this way.
I have never understood the American things for guns, why do you need or want them, they only result in more violence and more deaths and injuries? I also hate hunting so dont see the need for guns for this so called 'sport' either.
I will now duck before the flack comes my way !

DUCK!

Kidding...facts have proven the exact opposite in Australia...after they banned guns and forced people to turn them in, violent crime increased, as did gun violence.  Why?  Lawful gun owners turned them in, criminals did not.


Quote from: mikeyjc on November 10, 2008, 05:49:20 PM
Back in the fall the 1975 I was about to start some post secondary school education at a college in Toronto.  It was before I was saved and I had gone to a bar and had gotten pretty hammered that evening. I took the bus home and I walked into a house that looked identical to the one I was renting a room.  These two houses looked the same.   The front door had been unlocked and I stepped insided.  Then crouching at the top of the stairs was a man--the owner of the house.  Then his wife appeared beside him  I realized at that point, despite my alcohol fogged brain, that I had entered the wrong house.  I apologized and went next door to the house I should have gone to in the first place.  The next morning I saw the gentleman raking leaves and again I apologized for intruding into his home so late at night.

The thing is...I had made an honest mistake.  But had this happened in the US instead of Canada, do you think that I could have been shot and killed that night?  This is a serious question here.  Please give me your honest opinion.

mickey, I do not think you would have been shot in that case...unless you drew a weapon on your neighbor...but since you lived right next door, he probably recognized you anyway.

This is a typical misnomer about gun ownership.  People think that when we own a gun for self defense, we automatically shoot anybody who enters our home.  Not so.  I would use it if an intruder was armed, without hesitation.  However, if some guy just walked in through the front door, I would merely ask him what he was doing in my house....if it was a drunk neighbor, I would probably laugh at him...  Cool

In Christ,
KP
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2008, 09:53:44 PM »
Quote from: Charles Sloan on November 10, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
So for those who believe that Christians should own guns, would Christians be justified using a gun to protect themselves or their family under certain circumstances such as a robbery?

And would killing someone in extreme cases be justifiable?

Categorically.  Count on it. Let God sort it out, thereafter.

Robert
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2008, 09:58:33 PM »
Quote from: Gary on November 10, 2008, 06:51:46 PM
Quote from: chosenone on November 10, 2008, 05:52:07 PM
I am very pleased that in the uk owning a gum is not allowed unless you have a special licence for maybe a farmer or whatever. The more guns that are around and available the more people get shot. Thankfully most police officers here still dont carry guns either except special forces who are called out if there is an incident involving a firearm, which is still rare.
Of course there are some illegal guns but the general population just dont have them or want them., and long may it stay this way.
I have never understood the American things for guns, why do you need or want them, they only result in more violence and more deaths and injuries? I also hate hunting so dont see the need for guns for this so called 'sport' either.
I will now duck before the flack comes my way !

Guns are intertwined with our very culture here.  They helped gain our independence, new territory, etc.  Guns are mentioned in the our Constitution.  In fact, the state I live in has a provision to secede from the United States if the second amendment was changed.  Perhaps, there is no way you could understand.  The state I live in is larger than the UK in area, with less than a million people.  Many parts of it are still very much wild.

Gary,

You talkin' my ex home, Montana?  Or New Mexico, the 5th largest state in the union?

I agree with you absolutely.

Robert
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2008, 09:58:33 PM »
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Charles Sloan
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2008, 10:25:01 PM »
Quote from: RAMS on November 10, 2008, 09:53:44 PM
Quote from: Charles Sloan on November 10, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
So for those who believe that Christians should own guns, would Christians be justified using a gun to protect themselves or their family under certain circumstances such as a robbery?

And would killing someone in extreme cases be justifiable?

Categorically.  Count on it. Let God sort it out, thereafter.

Robert

Can this be justified by Scripture, or is this just your personal beliefs apart from the Bible?
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2008, 12:10:24 AM »
Quote from: RAMS on November 10, 2008, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: Gary on November 10, 2008, 06:51:46 PM
Quote from: chosenone on November 10, 2008, 05:52:07 PM
I am very pleased that in the uk owning a gum is not allowed unless you have a special licence for maybe a farmer or whatever. The more guns that are around and available the more people get shot. Thankfully most police officers here still dont carry guns either except special forces who are called out if there is an incident involving a firearm, which is still rare.
Of course there are some illegal guns but the general population just dont have them or want them., and long may it stay this way.
I have never understood the American things for guns, why do you need or want them, they only result in more violence and more deaths and injuries? I also hate hunting so dont see the need for guns for this so called 'sport' either.
I will now duck before the flack comes my way !

Guns are intertwined with our very culture here.  They helped gain our independence, new territory, etc.  Guns are mentioned in the our Constitution.  In fact, the state I live in has a provision to secede from the United States if the second amendment was changed.  Perhaps, there is no way you could understand.  The state I live in is larger than the UK in area, with less than a million people.  Many parts of it are still very much wild.

Gary,

You talkin' my ex home, Montana?  Or New Mexico, the 5th largest state in the union?

I agree with you absolutely.

Robert

Montana.
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2008, 01:38:54 AM »
Quote from: Gary on November 11, 2008, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: RAMS on November 10, 2008, 09:58:33 PM
Quote from: Gary on November 10, 2008, 06:51:46 PM
Quote from: chosenone on November 10, 2008, 05:52:07 PM
I am very pleased that in the uk owning a gum is not allowed unless you have a special licence for maybe a farmer or whatever. The more guns that are around and available the more people get shot. Thankfully most police officers here still dont carry guns either except special forces who are called out if there is an incident involving a firearm, which is still rare.
Of course there are some illegal guns but the general population just dont have them or want them., and long may it stay this way.
I have never understood the American things for guns, why do you need or want them, they only result in more violence and more deaths and injuries? I also hate hunting so dont see the need for guns for this so called 'sport' either.
I will now duck before the flack comes my way !

Guns are intertwined with our very culture here.  They helped gain our independence, new territory, etc.  Guns are mentioned in the our Constitution.  In fact, the state I live in has a provision to secede from the United States if the second amendment was changed.  Perhaps, there is no way you could understand.  The state I live in is larger than the UK in area, with less than a million people.  Many parts of it are still very much wild.

Gary,

You talkin' my ex home, Montana?  Or New Mexico, the 5th largest state in the union?

I agree with you absolutely.

Robert

Montana.

I grew up and was raised in Whitefish, between Whitefish and Kalispell. 10 miles from each on Stillwater Dr, along the Stillwater River.  Winter ranged down near St. Ignatius. Summer ranged over on the Sweet Grass and Red Lodge as well as on the Blackfoot.

I forgot our discussion on this and why I had a sordid memory of the place. But the essence, I cannot deny it, remains within me, still. My adoption of New Mexico about 20 years for a U.S. origin haunt when I am back in country has had the same effect in attachment with no sordid memories.

Did you or do you hunt? 

If so did you go after Whitetail or Elk?

Folks haven't an idea about the American-Rocky Mountain west, understandably.

Robert
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2008, 01:46:27 AM »
Quote from: Charles Sloan on November 10, 2008, 10:25:01 PM



Can this be justified by Scripture, or is this just your personal beliefs apart from the Bible?


Yes.

The underlying argument for gun control seems to be that the availability of guns causes crime. By extension, the availability of any weapon would have to be viewed as a cause of crime. What does the Bible say about such a view?

Perhaps we should start at the beginning, or at least very close to the beginning -- in Genesis 4. In this chapter we read about the first murder. Cain had offered an unacceptable sacrifice, and Cain was upset that God insisted that he do the right thing. In other words, Cain was peeved that he could not do his own thing.

Cain decided to kill his brother rather than get right with God. There were no guns available, although there may well have been a knife. Whether it was a knife or a rock, the Bible does not say. The point is, the evil in Cain's heart was the cause of the murder, not the availability of the murder weapon.

God's response was not to ban rocks or knives, or whatever, but to banish the murderer. Later (see Genesis 9:5-6) God instituted capital punishment, but said not a word about banning weapons.

Exodus 22:2-3 tells us "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

Another question asked by Christians is "Doesn't having a gun imply a lack of trust that God will take care of us?"

Answer:  No That is why we have weapons and firearms in our possession.

Another: 

"What are you afriad of by owning a weapon?

Answer:  Nothing.

Just some facts, on subject.

Robert
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2008, 01:46:27 AM »
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chosenone
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2008, 02:35:26 AM »
Quote from: Gary on November 10, 2008, 06:51:46 PM
Quote from: chosenone on November 10, 2008, 05:52:07 PM
I am very pleased that in the uk owning a gum is not allowed unless you have a special licence for maybe a farmer or whatever. The more guns that are around and available the more people get shot. Thankfully most police officers here still dont carry guns either except special forces who are called out if there is an incident involving a firearm, which is still rare.
Of course there are some illegal guns but the general population just dont have them or want them., and long may it stay this way.
I have never understood the American things for guns, why do you need or want them, they only result in more violence and more deaths and injuries? I also hate hunting so dont see the need for guns for this so called 'sport' either.
I will now duck before the flack comes my way !

Guns are intertwined with our very culture here.  They helped gain our independence, new territory, etc.  Guns are mentioned in the our Constitution.  In fact, the state I live in has a provision to secede from the United States if the second amendment was changed.  Perhaps, there is no way you could understand.  The state I live in is larger than the UK in area, with less than a million people.  Many parts of it are still very much wild.

Guns are very much part of your culture but does that mean that it is a good thing? Culture can change and very often should. surely.
We are always hearing about colleges and schools there where someone has murdered loads of kids and shot themselves. if they didnt have guns that wouldnt have happened . Shootings there are rife, and that is terrible and wrong. If there were no guns that wouldnt happen either. of course we have crime here but mainly with knives, While knives are terrible and often kill, guns are far more lethal becuase so many can be killed in one go wheras a knife cant. Also we all have to have knives for cooking etc so it would be impossible to ban them.
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2008, 02:39:04 AM »
Quote from: chosenone on November 11, 2008, 02:35:26 AM


Guns are very much part of your culture but does that mean that it is a good thing? Culture can change and very often should. surely.
We are always hearing about colleges and schools there where someone has murdered loads of kids and shot themselves. if they didnt have guns that wouldnt have happened . Shootings there are rife, and that is terrible and wrong. If there were no guns that wouldnt happen either. of course we have crime here but mainly with knives, While knives are terrible and often kill, guns are far more lethal becuase so many can be killed in one go wheras a knife cant. Also we all have to have knives for cooking etc so it would be impossible to ban them.


Utterly tragic, such liberalism.

Robert
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2008, 06:19:31 AM »
Quote from: Charles Sloan on November 10, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
So for those who believe that Christians should own guns, would Christians be justified using a gun to protect themselves or their family under certain circumstances such as a robbery?

And would killing someone in extreme cases be justifiable?

I had a Pastor one time who said he didn't believe God would put him in a situation like that.  Well, he is old and it hasn't happened.  Was it faith or just coincidence?  I never could decide.
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2008, 06:19:31 AM »
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2008, 07:57:49 AM »
Quote from: RAMS on November 11, 2008, 02:39:04 AM
Quote from: chosenone on November 11, 2008, 02:35:26 AM


Guns are very much part of your culture but does that mean that it is a good thing? Culture can change and very often should. surely.
We are always hearing about colleges and schools there where someone has murdered loads of kids and shot themselves. if they didnt have guns that wouldnt have happened . Shootings there are rife, and that is terrible and wrong. If there were no guns that wouldnt happen either. of course we have crime here but mainly with knives, While knives are terrible and often kill, guns are far more lethal becuase so many can be killed in one go wheras a knife cant. Also we all have to have knives for cooking etc so it would be impossible to ban them.


Utterly tragic, such liberalism.

Robert

wow...the first time I have ever been accused of being liberal....is that good or bad I wonder?
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2008, 08:08:42 AM »
Quote from: chosenone on November 11, 2008, 02:35:26 AM
of course we have crime here but mainly with knives, While knives are terrible and often kill, guns are far more lethal becuase so many can be killed in one go wheras a knife cant. Also we all have to have knives for cooking etc so it would be impossible to ban them.
Sure about that?


UK Guardian: Kitchen knife ban sought

Quote
Accident and emergency doctors today call for the banning of long, sharp kitchen knives, arguing they account for at least half of all stabbings.

They say such knives slice through clothing and penetrate vital organs.

"Many assaults are impulsive, often triggered by alcohol or misuse of other drugs, and the long, pointed kitchen knife is an easily accessible, potentially lethal weapon, particularly in the domestic setting," say the doctors from the West Middlesex university hospital, London, in the British Medical Journal.

----------

"UK government statistics show that 24% of all 16-year-old boys report carrying knives or other weapons, and 19% admitting attacking someone with the intent to cause harm.

"Although other weapons - such as baseball bats, screwdrivers and chains - are also carried, by far the most common weapons are knives."
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