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Offline Will Lee

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pagan baal worship
« on: Mon Jan 12, 2009 - 23:27:27 »
How widespread was the pagan baal cult in the ancient world circa 1000 bc? Was it just a phillistine thing, or did the phoenecians xport that religeon far and wide along thier trading routes? Is the worship of dogon and the stars sirius and venus in the same cult as "dagon" of the phillistine practice as found in the Old Testament? Thanks... ::frown::

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pagan baal worship
« on: Mon Jan 12, 2009 - 23:27:27 »

Offline ole Jake

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #1 on: Wed Jan 14, 2009 - 11:16:00 »
How widespread was the pagan baal cult in the ancient world circa 1000 bc? Was it just a phillistine thing, or did the phoenecians xport that religeon far and wide along thier trading routes? Is the worship of dogon and the stars sirius and venus in the same cult as "dagon" of the phillistine practice as found in the Old Testament? Thanks... ::frown::

Ba'al was restricted to Western, and probably northwestern, Semitic areas. But that is just a matter of local usage and specificity of religion. All Semitic peoples - at least those who were not bedouin and were organized into states with urban centers - from Babylon across to Canaan and down to Arabia, practiced a fertility cult religion that featured human (usually child) sacrifice and public sex rituals as well as ritual prostitution.

That is central to understanding Abraham. He literally is called out of particpation in such a fertility cult world. That the calling is spirtual rather than geographic is obvious in that he moved from the Eastern Semitic fertility cult area to the Western Semitic fertility cult area, where Ba'al was Lord.

To be more precise, 'Ba'al is a title applied to several different localized Western Semitic Fertility cult deities - Hebrew prophets see them all as one big monstrous abomination, which is correct.

The best movie version showing what a fertility cult world is like is Mel Gibson's Apocalypto. Both Mayans and Aztecs practiced human sacrifice fertility cults, as did a number of other American Indian tribes, many Polynesians, some southeast Asians, and a number of sub-Saharan Africans.

As Christianity - which is the force that ended all those fertility cult abominations around the globe - has become effeminate, limp-wristed, and defensively determined to see great good in all other religions and cultures, child sacrifice has been making a comeback.

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #1 on: Wed Jan 14, 2009 - 11:16:00 »

Offline fanuvmxpx

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jan 14, 2009 - 16:39:54 »
You can also find Ba'al, Mephisto & Diablo in the computer game entitled Diablo by Blizzard entertainment. Yeah I know, its a tangent, but I saw the post.

Offline Will Lee

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 00:39:01 »
Im starting to get the idea that the pagan baal worship has extended over a wider area. The druids of Ireland, as well as the Meso-Americans all seem to have the same fertility rituals, the same holidays, the same use of shamens, and worship of sirius and venus stars(with intricate calendars)and child sacrifice. So...Im thinking that this paganism was not just a primitive religion from the mind of man, but was satanically inspired. I think that the abortion craze of today is just another manifestation of satans desire to kill the innocent and inculcate animalist cruelty in our peoples minds.

Indeed, it really does show what kind of opposition that Abraham faced when he decided to follow God. And the same goes for St Patric, David, and so on. I am afraid that unless more of the so-called luke warm Christians get more involved, then our society will slip back into the occult practices of our dark past. It makes us want to kneel down and pray for God t strengthen us for the fight, doesnt it? After all, we are the light of the world, carrying God's Holy message, though we are ourselves imperfect vessels.

So, this leads to my next question...why Abraham? Was there any reference that Abraham was descended from Noah? Or was it just a calling, like that of Saul/Paul? I am a little confused about why Abraham decided to follow God.

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 00:39:01 »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 14:09:53 »
Im starting to get the idea that the pagan baal worship has extended over a wider area. The druids of Ireland, as well as the Meso-Americans all seem to have the same fertility rituals, the same holidays, the same use of shamens, and worship of sirius and venus stars(with intricate calendars)and child sacrifice. So...Im thinking that this paganism was not just a primitive religion from the mind of man, but was satanically inspired. I think that the abortion craze of today is just another manifestation of satans desire to kill the innocent and inculcate animalist cruelty in our peoples minds.
Virtually all of the ancient religions are identical.  Based simply on my own studies...they fall into categories.  They are either astrological in nature, agriculturally based, emperor/king worship, or else simply rooted in quests for personal power.  They were practiced side-by-side by the same people, of course.

So anyway, the Roman deities ARE the Greek deities ARE the Babylonian pantheon, and I know the Celts also have gods, though I haven't studied them much.  For instance, Ishtar = Innana = Astarte = Astaroth = Aphrodite = Venus.  They're all based on astrology - the 7 (visible) planets are the deities.  The Norse and Germanic gods of later days also seem to be derived this way.

The fertility cults spring up everywhere that has an agricultural base (everywhere with cities).  Ba'al belongs to this group.  BTW, Ba'al is a generic word more than a proper name.  It's the semitic for "master."  There were many different variations on Ba'al that weren't even necessarily the same deity/demon.  Also, Baalim (masters) are generally inferior to Elohim (gods)...they're "lesser gods."

The Phoenicians DID engage in fertility cults.  See the story of Jezebel...she was a Phoenician princess before she brought Baalim and Ashtaroth into Israel.

Indeed, it really does show what kind of opposition that Abraham faced when he decided to follow God. And the same goes for St Patric, David, and so on. I am afraid that unless more of the so-called luke warm Christians get more involved, then our society will slip back into the occult practices of our dark past. It makes us want to kneel down and pray for God t strengthen us for the fight, doesnt it? After all, we are the light of the world, carrying God's Holy message, though we are ourselves imperfect vessels.
Cheer up.  History is cyclical, but the overall trend is upwards on an exponential curve.

Quote
So, this leads to my next question...why Abraham? Was there any reference that Abraham was descended from Noah? Or was it just a calling, like that of Saul/Paul? I am a little confused about why Abraham decided to follow God.
Everyone is descended from Noah if we read it literally.  But what made Abraham special was that he was the only guy listening.  The Bible says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to Him as righteousness."

As to why Abraham decided to follow God...Abraham obtained many promises and rewards among the terms of his covenant with the Almighty.  I refer you to Genesis 15.

I'm kind of all over the place here...I like to study this stuff.  If you're interested in learning more, I can probably recommend some books.

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 14:09:53 »



Offline ole Jake

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #5 on: Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 23:05:55 »
Im starting to get the idea that the pagan baal worship has extended over a wider area. The druids of Ireland, as well as the Meso-Americans all seem to have the same fertility rituals, the same holidays, the same use of shamens, and worship of sirius and venus stars(with intricate calendars)and child sacrifice. So...Im thinking that this paganism was not just a primitive religion from the mind of man, but was satanically inspired. I think that the abortion craze of today is just another manifestation of satans desire to kill the innocent and inculcate animalist cruelty in our peoples minds.

Indeed, it really does show what kind of opposition that Abraham faced when he decided to follow God. And the same goes for St Patric, David, and so on. I am afraid that unless more of the so-called luke warm Christians get more involved, then our society will slip back into the occult practices of our dark past. It makes us want to kneel down and pray for God t strengthen us for the fight, doesnt it? After all, we are the light of the world, carrying God's Holy message, though we are ourselves imperfect vessels.

So, this leads to my next question...why Abraham? Was there any reference that Abraham was descended from Noah? Or was it just a calling, like that of Saul/Paul? I am a little confused about why Abraham decided to follow God.

Ba'al worship was not all over; it was restricted to the Western Semitic areas. But the Eastern Semites had the same child sacrifice fertility cult religion in the basics.

If you mean that child sacrifice fertility cults have appeared over most of the world, you are correct, but the forms are not identical to Ba'al worship.

There was no child sacrifice fertility cult among any European peoples - by which I mean peoples who are lingusitically and culturally European. It may be that early Etruscans, who were not an Indo-European linguistic group, practiced a form of Levantine fertility cult, and it seems that peoples in the continent of Europe before the arrival of European language speakers (such as the Celt-Latins, Greeks, Germans, etc.) may have as well. Etruscans, by the way, may - only may - have practiced fertility cult sacrtifce before Rome was powerful, but well before Rome enters Greek history, Etruria had adopted various cultural practices of their neighbors the Latins and Cisapline Gauls and so had become something other than a human sacrifice people.

But the European groups/ Indo-European speaking ethnic groups most certainly seemed to have practiced a type of ritual capital punishment (we can see it as late as the Roman Empire, say when Romans executed leaders of groups that rebelled or resisted being conquered), and many people confuse that - we have ample evidence of ritually strangled men - with a fertility cult human sacrifice religion, that they often then assume that the culture must also have practiced child sacrifice and sex rituals as religious rites..

In other words, we have many who see all kinds of false cognates.

Fertility cult religions entered the European cultural world when Greeks and then Romans became explorers and imperialists. Greeks imported it from what the Romans would call Asia Minor, in the form of Dionysius. The Greeks adopted the sex ritual parts but were horrified at the human sacrifice. It is important that the myths around the Trojan War have Agamemnon sacrificing his daughter (12 or 13) so he could get winds to go to war, for which his wife later murders him, which leads to his House being destroyed. The moral is clear. 

The Greek myth of Theseus and the Minotaur is also about the fertility cult. It does seem that the earliest civilization on Crete was Levantine, most probably Semiitc, not Greek. The myth shows how the Cretans required the subservient Greeks to send young people to Knossos to be sacrificed, and then provides a romantic explanation how the Greeks were freed from having their young slaughtered as part of a foreign religion of death/fertility.


Offline Will Lee

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #6 on: Thu Jan 15, 2009 - 23:30:59 »
What about the mysterious "Sea People" of 1500 BC. Were they a semetic people? Did they have this fertility ritual that was similar to baal worship? And, who were they? They seem to have attacked everybody except the phoenicians, so were they phoenicians? Im trying to fix all of this in relation to the phillistines, and who thier ancestors were?

Offline Lee Freeman

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Re: pagan baal worship
« Reply #7 on: Sat Jan 17, 2009 - 15:00:27 »
All ancient peoples had some type of fertility cult(s) whether the Semitic Ba'al, the Greco-Roman Cybele/Magna Mater, the Roman Mithras, etc. The exact details of the rituals varied somewhat, but the basic underlying theology was the same in nearly all of them.

As for the Druids of the British Isles, a lot of "common knowledge" regarding them is actually nothing but Roman propaganda. There's a lot of misinformation out there about them.

Pax.