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Author Topic: The date of Christs birth  (Read 9962 times)

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Offline idrahaje

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The date of Christs birth
« on: Tue Dec 08, 2009 - 17:45:14 »
I am just curious as to why throughout history we use either BC or AD to represent a date in history when Jesus was born is 4BC and died in 30AD. How has our calander been messed up as to not represent Jesus being born in 1BC or there abouts and dying in 33AD? I am sure that I am making it to hard but I would like some help with this. Thank you so much.

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The date of Christs birth
« on: Tue Dec 08, 2009 - 17:45:14 »

k-pappy

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #1 on: Tue Dec 08, 2009 - 21:42:45 »
The gregorian calander was originally based on the year of Christ's birth (Anno Domini).  Previously, systems in use included consular dating, imperial regnal year dating, and Creation dating.  In order to convert, a lot of calculations had to be made.  When all was said and done the gregorian calander was slight off due to a combination of the following factors:

- The civil, or consular year began on 1 January but the Diocletian year began on 29 August
- There were inaccuracies in the list of consuls
- There were confused summations of emperors' regnal years

The actual date of Christ's birth was taken from historical sources and Biblical source.  The following factors were taken into account:

- Herod's reign
- reign of the Emperor Augustus
- Cyrenius (or Quirinius) was the governor of Syria
- some also believe the "star of Bethlehem" to be a planetary conjunction that occured around that time

That combination of factors points to 6-4 BC.

Hope that helps!

Bond

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #1 on: Tue Dec 08, 2009 - 21:42:45 »

Offline idrahaje

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #2 on: Tue Dec 08, 2009 - 22:31:31 »
That does help alot. Thank you so much for your effort on this. God Bless

Offline Geezer

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #3 on: Fri Dec 11, 2009 - 14:25:45 »
Frank Klassen was an engineer - an architect by trade. he started one day back in the 60’s to draw out on his drafting board a graphic timeline of Bible chronology. This took most of 10 years and his work was published in a book titled...

The Chronology of the Bible

The book is now out of print and used copies are about $30. The timeline of history from Alexander the great until today is pretty accurate. From Alexander backward it is not. The Bible itself has a myriad of references of overlapping periods of time in ancient history. Klassen working backward and determined that Adam was created on Friday April 1st 3975BC (Yes, April fools day) So in 2025 on March 31st the history of mankind shall have been exactly 6,000 years. So is this the end? I don’t know, but I do trust Klassen because I never had problem one with his calculations and God really does seem to have a perfect timetable - which kind of surprises me.

According to his timeline - Jesus was born on April 1st 5BC and died on April 15th 29AD. I tend to believe this because God seems to be big on symbolism, and AD 29 is the year of the 29th Jubilee - which is highly significant. Jesus set the captives free on the acceptable year of the Lord.

Larry

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #3 on: Fri Dec 11, 2009 - 14:25:45 »

Offline Frank_N_Sense

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #4 on: Sat Dec 19, 2009 - 22:03:00 »
??? does it make a difference what day, month or year??


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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #4 on: Sat Dec 19, 2009 - 22:03:00 »



Offline USMC0811

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #5 on: Mon Sep 27, 2010 - 09:50:49 »
The AD/BC date was first started by some fellow in the 400s.  Since then, new information was unearthed concerning Herod; it was found that he died sometime around 4 BC, so the calculation of Jesus' birth must have been incorrect.  Considering the Herod sent out to kill children under two when searching for Jesus, Jesus was likely less than 2 years old, so Jesus was likely born between 4 and 6 BC.

Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #6 on: Wed Oct 20, 2010 - 17:36:43 »
I have done a study on the dating of Christ’s Birth which may be helpful here. It shows with much support that Jesus was actually born in 8 B.C. See this post for more.

I have also done a study on the date of the Crucifixion which actually does not depend on Christ’s age. The best supported date is 31. A.D. See in this post.

God Bless.

marc

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #7 on: Wed Oct 20, 2010 - 23:21:00 »
Considering the info the calendar makers were working with, they made a pretty good guess, only being off by four or so years.

jfla

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #8 on: Sun Oct 24, 2010 - 07:14:51 »
I’ve read a couple of books regarding the date of Christ’s birth based on identifying the star of Bethlehem.  One was Ernest L. Martin’s The Star That Astonished The World (available online as html files).  I cannot remember the exact title of the other, but I do remember the author’s last name being Molnar.

By far Martin makes the better argument.  He relied on a computer program that essentially ran the solar system backwards to recreate what the Wise Men would have seen- ordinary celestial events that non-astronomers, i.e., Herod, would either not have noticed or not have placed any astrological significance in.  Martin then uses written records to identify the census that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem as a special census designed to ratify a title (equivalent to “father of the country

Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #9 on: Sun Oct 24, 2010 - 17:26:45 »
Hello jfla,

Did you read my post on the dating of Christ’s birth. See this post. I also had consulted Martin’s works, but found them inconclusive as the Biblical record is clear that the star had appeared twice, once two years before on the very night when Christ was born and then two years later when the wisemen had made the trip to Jerusalem. Then that newly reappeared star guided them to Bethlehem. It therefore clearly was not a natural/astronomical appearance. As such it cannot be found using computer recreations. The 1 B.C. Date is unattenable because of the known death of Herod in 4 B.C. Other arguments presented on that blog post show that the 8 B.C. date is best supported.

jfla

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #10 on: Sun Oct 24, 2010 - 17:59:30 »
Hello jfla,

Did you read my post on the dating of Christ’s birth. See this post.


I’m still working my way through this board, so I haven’t gotten to everything yet.

Quote
I also had consulted Martin’s works, but found them inconclusive as the Biblical record is clear that the star had appeared twice, once two years before on the very night when Christ was born and then two years later when the wisemen had made the trip to Jerusalem.


It has been a while since I read Martin’s book so I don’t recall right off if he addressed this issue, but can you tell me what Scripture you are basing this on?

Matthew 2:9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.

This verse could be saying that the star was in the eastern sky when the Wise Men left Herod just as much as it is saying that the Wise Men had seen it while they were still in a region to the East of Judea.

Quote
Then that newly reappeared star guided them to Bethlehem. It therefore clearly was not a natural/astronomical appearance.


If the star was a supernatural event, why did only the Wise Men notice it? Unusual celestial events generally instilled fear and dread in the ancient world.  A supernatural event in the sky would likely have caused a worldwide panic, which would be attested to in the world’s historical documentation.

Quote
The 1 B.C. Date is unattenable because of the known death of Herod in 4 B.C.


This assumes that you definitely know the date of Herod’s death.  An underlying pillar of Martin’s claim is that the 4BC date for Herod’s death is wrong.

Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #11 on: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 00:15:57 »
It has been a while since I read Martin’s book so I don’t recall right off if he addressed this issue, ...

I had found Martin’s dating in general to be inconclusive in regards to all of the corroborating facts/evidence that point to a 8 B.C. date. This includes his view of a 1 B.C. eclipse was a supposed (natural) “star
« Last Edit: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 10:00:39 by NJK Project »

jfla

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #12 on: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 06:54:54 »
I am basing my view that the Star of Bethlehem was not an “eclipse

Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #13 on: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 11:29:30 »
I have not made any claim that the star was an eclipse, and I don’t recall that Martin or anybody else has said it was an eclipse.

Uhhh... just Google “star of Bethlehem an eclipse
« Last Edit: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 11:45:27 by NJK Project »

jfla

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #14 on: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 16:13:46 »
Uhhh... just Google “star of Bethlehem an eclipse

Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #15 on: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 19:30:01 »
Make sure you pay attention to what I have actually said before replying because some of your arguments were quite oblivious and/or mindless.

You had said:
I have not made any claim that the star was an eclipse, and I don’t recall that Martin or anybody else has said it was an eclipse.
   

I did not say in my reply that it was your view or that you wanted to have this view. I just pointed you to where you could have found out for yourself other people, including Martin, who had this view before making the implied straw man argument that ‘no one has this view’.
      
If the Wise Men came from Mesopotamia, they most likely already knew what the celestial events indicated because they most likely knew about Jewish prophecy which would have been handed down to them from the Jews that were exiled to Babylonia by Nebuchadnezzar.  They would not have needed to do any research because they were already expecting to see something in the sky to indicate the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy.

I guess you have to first prove that they came from Mesopotamia first before advancing this as a controlling theory. Using unknowns as the basis for a view is not the proper exegetical approach. According to your view, these wise men would also have been defaulty more knowledgeable to the Jewish writing than all of the Jews anywhere. Possible, but not likely for religious reasons. The view that they searched out to find the meaning of this appearance in various writings is more likely. The may even have known of Num 24:17 beforehand but may not have understood what it meant religiously until they did a study on the Messiah topic in the Jewish Scriptures

Being Wise Men, they most likely had good paying government jobs serving as royal advisors.  I doubt that they would have had to save up to buy Christmas presents.

That’s plausible, however a gift for a prophesied, Messianic King, who they assumed was being hailed as such in Jerusalem, was probably worth at least two years of savings to them. They surely did not want to appear cheap in front of this Majestic Monarch.

Except this is not what Martin proposed. ...

Fair enough, now that I see exactly what he said for himself!

The Wise Men did not know exactly where Christ was when they arrived in Judea; if they had, they would not have asked around for the location.  Herod’s people told them Bethlehem- they did not find out this information for themselves.

If you read back my original statement you’ll see that this was exactly one of my two “and/or

jfla

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #16 on: Mon Oct 25, 2010 - 20:50:14 »
Make sure you pay attention to what I have actually said before replying because some of your arguments were quite oblivious and/or mindless.

And you have been an utter waste of time.


Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #17 on: Tue Oct 26, 2010 - 00:24:00 »
And you have been an utter waste of time.

Obviously that is your best, non-substantive and red-herring, reply. Quite typical of your non-exegetical/traditional “type

p.rehbein

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #18 on: Sat Apr 16, 2011 - 20:08:36 »
geeessshhhh, no one gave thought to the Historical Records of the  Roman Empire and the time they held their head counts which is what brought Joseph and Mary to Bethleham in the first place........well, actually God brought them there to fulfill His master plan, but they were there due to the census...........from some I read, this took place in late June to early July...........

We have known for years that our current calandar is off by four or five years, so that's not really news, I agree with Marc though, hey, given the mixed info they had to work with.....they did pretty good.

Offline NJK Project

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Re: The date of Christs birth
« Reply #19 on: Tue Aug 02, 2011 - 12:20:55 »
no one gave thought to the Historical Records of the  Roman Empire and the time they held their head counts which is what brought Joseph and Mary to Bethleham in the first place...

The Roman census is often stated as a ‘miraculous occurrence which helped fulfill the assumed “birth place