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Offline Seriousseeker

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THE ISRAELITES
« on: July 28, 2011, 12:31:07 PM »
This paper is quite revealing about a view of Israel from the Bible.

- Seriousseeker


THE  FAITH  OF  ISRAELITES

In the Old Testament of the Bible we read of God's chosen people, the Israelites.  They began as a people of God from the twelve children of Jacob, who God then called "Israel" (Gen.35:10).  They were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.  As a company they owned the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and were identified by circumcision.  As individual believers, they needed also faith to have a personal relationship with God, and they must offer sacrifices to cover their sins (atonement or covering) and be right with God.  As a nation they were greatly loved by God, but they did not often return that love (see Malachi).  This is also true of the church today.

When the faithful Israelite saints died, they went to a place called "Abraham's bosom" (KJV -Luke 16:22) to wait for the promised blessing of the Messiah, who would wash away those sins that the sacrifices only covered.  They did not know of Jesus, as the Christ and hope of Israel, but they believed the anointed One of God would come one day, deliver and restore Israel, and bring them all into eternal blessing.

The O.T. saints as friends of the bridegroom (KJV -John 3:28-29) saw Christ, we understand, after His death on the cross (see KJV - Luke 16; Eph.4:8-10; I Pet.3:19).  We get a picture then of this faithful people of old redeemed and taken up to heaven, not as the bride, but as "the friend of the bridegroom" to dwell in blessing forever.

During the tribulation period to come on the earth, there will be a remnant of Israel saved and preserved to "inherit the earth"---the 144,000 of Revelation 7.  They will worship God on the "new earth", and so God will have an earthly people and a heavenly people forever.  Today they are under discipline and are scattered in the world, and most do not know their tribes (see also KJV -Matt.23:37-39).

It is important to understand that an Israelite who is quickened and convicted today by the Holy Spirit, must receive Christ as any Gentile does, for the religion of Israel has been done away.  Salvation is to "whosoever" will come to Christ (KJV -Gal.2:15-16; Gal.3: 19-28).   - RLD, '04; rev. 5/06
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 12:48:44 PM by Seriousseeker »
I believe a faithful "child of God" should trust our Savior --the Lord Jesus (which pleases the Father), worship Him and make Him our best Friend;  value "unity of the faith", be non-sectarian and hold fully to Scripture ---declaring "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as the Apostle Paul counseled the saints.  Let us look up always (note John 14).

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THE ISRAELITES
« on: July 28, 2011, 12:31:07 PM »

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 07:40:05 PM »
In regard to the post here, Christians need to appreciate that the Church is not an extension of the Israelite religion, but a New Testament people known as the Bride of Christ --a heavenly people.  When Israel is restored as a nation in the Millennium and then "New Earth" period for eternity, they will be God's earthly people --not part of the Bride.

Sometimes we hear professing Christians refer to their belief as "Messianic Christians".  Such a name might be somewhat true of a real Israelite (or Jew) who receives Jesus Christ as his/her Lord and eternal hope, but then they would be on the ground of the Church (Bride of Christ).  Gentiles are not properly messianic believers, for the Messiah was never their hope.

- Seriousseeker
I believe a faithful "child of God" should trust our Savior --the Lord Jesus (which pleases the Father), worship Him and make Him our best Friend;  value "unity of the faith", be non-sectarian and hold fully to Scripture ---declaring "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as the Apostle Paul counseled the saints.  Let us look up always (note John 14).

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2012, 07:40:05 PM »

Online Jaime

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2012, 05:12:06 AM »
Christians are grafted into Israel, (synonomous with God's people). A lot of the natural branches have been broken off, and a lot of wild banches have been grafted on. And Paul states that if God will graft wild branches on, how much more so will he graft back on the broken off branches. And yes of course the grafting back on involves faith in Jesus Christ.
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 11:32:32 AM »
Jaime, I think this is a misapplication of scripture.  The Church is certainly not "grafted" into Israel's religion.  That religion was set aside at the Cross with their rebellion, when also the "veil" was rent; and Israel will not be recovered as a unified people of God until the end of the Tribulation period, according to the Word.

The reference to "grafting in" refers to Gentiles being grafted into the grace of God, not to Israel (note Rom. 11:15-21).  The Church is not an extension of the Israelite religion and their Covenants, but a New Testament in Christ --a heavenly people.  Israel will be recovered when they repent and restored to God as an earthly people forever.  Israelites today must come to Christ on the same ground as Gentiles and be "born again" by the Holy Spirit.  They then would be Christians.

More could be shown on this if you should like to PM me for some thoughts.

- Seriousseeker
I believe a faithful "child of God" should trust our Savior --the Lord Jesus (which pleases the Father), worship Him and make Him our best Friend;  value "unity of the faith", be non-sectarian and hold fully to Scripture ---declaring "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as the Apostle Paul counseled the saints.  Let us look up always (note John 14).

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2012, 11:32:32 AM »

Online Jaime

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 12:25:11 PM »
Jaime, I think this is a misapplication of scripture.  The Church is certainly not "grafted" into Israel's religion.  That religion was set aside at the Cross with their rebellion, when also the "veil" was rent; and Israel will not be recovered as a unified people of God until the end of the Tribulation period, according to the Word.

The reference to "grafting in" refers to Gentiles being grafted into the grace of God, not to Israel (note Rom. 11:15-21).  The Church is not an extension of the Israelite religion and their Covenants, but a New Testament in Christ --a heavenly people.  Israel will be recovered when they repent and restored to God as an earthly people forever.  Israelites today must come to Christ on the same ground as Gentiles and be "born again" by the Holy Spirit.  They then would be Christians.

More could be shown on this if you should like to PM me for some thoughts.

- Seriousseeker

I wasn't talking about national Israel or Israel's religion. God's people is the Israel of God. Yes Israelites or Jews must come to Christ by faith in Christ. That is how they as broken off branches get grafted back on, which is what I said in the previous post. That is what Romans 11 means when it says, "All of Israel will be saved." That is not talking about the population of a strip of land or an ethnicity of people, but all of God's olive tree, Israel (His people) will be saved. We ARE part of the Israel of God.

Go back and do a study of what God's olive tree is in the Old Testament. It is HIS people. No argument from me that most of the natural branches were broken off. They like us wild branches are beginning to be grafted back on and will continue in  an ever increasing manner as their blinders come off.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 12:37:57 PM by Jaime »
So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear. That there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by a free enterprise system. - Milton Friedman

The government solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem. - Milton Friedman

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 12:25:11 PM »



Offline DaveW

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2012, 08:26:31 AM »
In regard to the post here, Christians need to appreciate that the Church is not an extension of the Israelite religion, but a New Testament people known as the Bride of Christ --a heavenly people. 
Au Contraire mon capitan....  That sort of thinking has led to an innumerable host of errors in the church both in the distant past and to this day. Just as there was continuity between the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and that of Moses and the Israelites who fled Egypt, there is just as much continuity between the Mosaic and New Covenant believers.

There was supposed to NOT be a hard distinction between New Covenant Jew and Gentile believer.  Indeed during Acts the church under Paul (the gentiles) was referred to as a "sect of the Nazorean."  That would be a sect (segment) of what exactly?  Pharasaic Judaism.

Quote
When Israel is restored as a nation in the Millennium and then "New Earth" period for eternity, they will be God's earthly people --not part of the Bride.

Wow - you really do not believe that "All Israel shall be saved," do you?

Quote
Sometimes we hear professing Christians refer to their belief as "Messianic Christians".  Such a name might be somewhat true of a real Israelite (or Jew) who receives Jesus Christ as his/her Lord and eternal hope, but then they would be on the ground of the Church (Bride of Christ).  Gentiles are not properly messianic believers, for the Messiah was never their hope.

What about the gerim?  (usually translated the "foreigner who dwells among you.")  I am a Messianic believer in the Messianic Jewish community. I am also a gentile.

And I would submit that ALL gentile Christians are actually Messianics as "Christos" is just the Greek way of saying Messiah. (anointed one)  So if it is improper to call Gentile believers in the New Covenant "Messianic" it would be equally improper to call them "Christian" since the words are the same - a follower of the anointed one.

Offline Funguy33

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 09:28:47 PM »
The Jews were scattered as the other tribes in 70AD.

The Jews kiving in Israel today are Khazars who adopted the Jewish religion in 700AD

Jesus completed all the Old Testament Covenants Galations 3:16

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Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 09:52:10 PM »
It is surely important to see that the "new covenant" for Israel is described in Hebrews 8 (and especially note v. 10).  In verse 6 sound Bible teachers show it should have been translated in the KJV as "testament", rather than "covenant".  Certainly "all Israel shall be saved" (the nation as a people), and as shown in Romans 11 this will be deliverance when the Lord returns in the Millennium.  One needs to be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" (2 Tim. 2:15).

The Epistle to Hebrews is to the Hebrew children (those who have come to Christ), who have come to know about the Lord Jesus as their true Messiah;  and the hope for Israel as a nation is a new covenant when Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation period of judgment on the world.

As I have shown at the beginning of this subject, the Church is not under covenant, but the dispensation of grace.  New Christians need to understand this for a true view of the Church and the workings of God for mankind. 
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 09:31:20 PM by Seriousseeker »
I believe a faithful "child of God" should trust our Savior --the Lord Jesus (which pleases the Father), worship Him and make Him our best Friend;  value "unity of the faith", be non-sectarian and hold fully to Scripture ---declaring "all the counsel of God" and be "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" as the Apostle Paul counseled the saints.  Let us look up always (note John 14).

Offline DaveW

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Re: THE ISRAELITES
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2012, 10:18:00 AM »
The Jews were scattered as the other tribes in 70AD.

Wrong.  THe scattering took place in 135 ad following the defeat of the Bar Kochba revolt.

Quote
The Jews living in Israel today are Khazars who adopted the Jewish religion in 700AD

Some perhaps.  But that does not matter as one who converts is the same as the native born Jew. 

THere were many Jews who were dispersed already in the first century that remained dispersed including a very large contingency in Babylon and another group that "disappeared" into the mountains of Yemen in 135. DNA testing shows the modern Jew and these people are from the same genetic stock.

So the Jews today are the real flesh and blood decendants of the Jews then.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 10:55:28 AM by DaveW »