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Sounds to me like James is expanding his statement of faith without works is dead. NOT that works save, but a non-responsive faith doesn’t either.

But, this is prime example of how someone will use this as proof that works are of necessity for salvation.

And others see things as you do....

And if you want to get technical.... what Grams is always quoting...

Ephesians 2:8-9King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And if you go onto VS 10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

One certainty could make an argument that while we are not saved by works, we were created to do good works.
Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« Last post by beloved57 on Today at 13:11:04 »

Which scripture says it DOESN’T mean everyone? If God so loved the world, he would have listed the exclusions if it didn’t mean everyone.

So if you dont have a scripture that says world means everyone, its presumption to say so ! 2 Pet 2:10

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
 ::scared:: Maybe he was the beginning of the Clinton body count????

In all seriousness, I want to see them, but rather imagine they will be so redacted they may not make much sense.

As to Bush and his speech....

He is a true idiot.

I never liked any of the Bush clan except for Barbara....

His siding close to the dems just further proves how hand and glove both sides of the aisle are when you are part of the professional group.

Whatever scripture says, like Norton indicated if we think baptism earns or merits us any part of salvation we are wrong and are making baptism a work. Which it is NOT scripturally.
Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« Last post by Kenneth Sublett on Today at 12:57:54 »
Jesus died for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD but He said that He didn't pray for the WORLD.  He said that neither He nor those able to SPEAK what Jesus commanded will not be OF THIS WORLD.  So, world has several definition.

kosmos , ho, 3.
3. form, fashion, “ippou kosmon aeison dourateou” Od.8.492; “k. epeōn apatēlos” Parm.8.52; exēgeomenōn . . ton k. autou the fashion of it, Hdt.3.22; k. tonde . . ho katastēsamenos who established this order or from, Id.1.99.
II. ornament, decoration, esp. of women
metaph., of ornaments of speech, such as epithets, Id.9.9 (pl.), Arist.Rh.1408a14, Po.1457b2, 1458a33; hadumelē k. keladein to sing sweet songs of praise, Pi.O.11 (10).13 (s.v.l.).

However, in relationship to the Little flock or the WAY (pattern) that is called a SECT.  Paul pointed to the Pythagoreans in Rome and silenced all of the sects.  Self-pleasure in Romans 15 as Areskos or Placeo silences all of the performing acts so that "we use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning or "Scripture for our Comforter" the paraclete operates through His Word.

3. in later Gr., = oikoumenē, the known or inhabited world, OGI458.40 (9 B.C.), Ep.Rom.1.8, etc.; ho tou pantos k. kurios, of Nero, SIG814.31, cf. IGRom.4.982 (Samos); “ean ton k. holon kerdēsē” Ev.Matt.16.26.
4. men in general, “phanerōson seauton tō k.” Ev.Jo.7.4, cf. 12.19; esp. of the world as estranged from God by sin, ib.16.20, 17.9, al., 1 Ep.Cor. 1.21, etc.
5. houtos ho k. this present world, i.e. earth, opp. heaven, Ev.Jo.13.1; regarded as the kingdom of evil, ho arkhōn tou k. toutou ib.12.31.
V. Pythag.name for six, Theol.Ar.37; for ten, ib.59.

In later Greek ECUMENICAL which is the effort to include EVERYONE (with money) has the meaning of KOSMOS which is the kingdom of Evil: Principalities and powers.

Believers are IN the WORLD but not OF the World.  The Church is commanded to GO FISHING and let God do the sorting. The TARES which induces bad sight and delusions are the SEED OF THE DEVIL who owns this present evil world: Just watch TV or televangelistss.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Peter said that the first creation (Genesis) was destroyed by water but the Creation (family) of Jesus is Reserved unto Fire. Believers are reserved FROM fire and the WORLD is reserved FOR FIRE.

Baptism is a work only when we perceive it as a work. You will notice that I am not the one who went chipping away at Paul's "salvation is not of works" statements. When the subject of baptism comes up and people began trying to neutralize Paul's statements by saying he was speaking only of works of the Law of Moses, it is a very good indication that they are trying to defend their "salvation by works" view of baptism.
The same people will also start quoting James 2. As Jaime says above, James 2 has almost nothing to do with baptism. James 2 is about works. Baptism is not about works.
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Gold Star Mom
« Last post by Ginger Rella on Today at 12:52:39 »
It's crowded, but we saved a seat for you, bond.   ::smile::

Catholic Forum / Re: About Mass ?
« Last post by grams on Today at 12:44:09 »

Back in my time  the 1940's.......... Mass  was in Latin  and we were never told to use a bible..

Only the prayer book and the rosary............

How do you learn any thing  with that ?   

6  days  a week...........   can you see young children   learning any thing  from that ?

And  up till  the  late   1960s.......  not  much change......  that's  when I stopped going   all the time

I sure do  pray  they have  changed  a lot !    They  did need to in  my time.......
Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« Last post by Jaime on Today at 12:39:38 »
Which scripture says it DOESN’T mean everyone? If God so loved the world, he would have listed the exclusions if it didn’t mean everyone.
Theology Forum / Re: The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished
« Last post by beloved57 on Today at 12:32:11 »

The world includes everyone.

Says what scripture ?
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