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11
Theology Forum / Re: A study on the nature of eternal life
« Last post by TruthScientist on Today at 03:45:42 PM »
TruthScientist,

Quote
the whole point to this discussion is whether man has any power to save himself from death.  Why death is here is another question and we mostly agree on that.  I say no, not on the physical plain or the supernatural plain can we effect our living for 200 years let alone eternity... 

the fixing of the problem of death is supernatural and the logical mind of man can not come up with any certainly of our being able to do it.  The supernatural (Salvation by the Creator by grace).  You can call believing and confessing that a work if you want to...  I could care less, but there is not another erg of energy that can be given to affect the promised supernatural means of living life eternally according to the promise of the Creator... 

Go back and look at what He sees when He looks at us...  A hint is that He has His grace tinted glasses colored with the precious blood of Jesus Christ and sees us according to His sacrifice for us.  We don't deserve to live eternally and neither are we able in any way to affect that except by what God has promised us... 

Even Israel has been taken off the works.  We don't work to be saved but because we are saved.  those who are lazy and untaught will suffer loss in the judgment but not of what the blood did... 

man has absolutely not power to save Himself, none what so ever...

As I started to read your post, I thought you were on the right track, but then slid off the track into conflation.

Christ performed two things that man cannot do. The general statement would be that man cannot reverse the fall of man. Christ came as man, Incarnated with our mortal human nature to do two things. Atone for sin and overcome death.

Christ did this for the world, for all mankind. It is an outright gift given to the world.  Christ reversed the fall, reconciled the world to God. Because Christ saved the world and all mankind from death and sin, which is known as salvation in scripture.

Because He did save us, He now, through the Holy Spirit, is calling all men to repentance, to enter into a relationship with Him.  This part everything to do with man. God created man for this specific purpose to be in union with Him for an eternity. But that union was based on a mutual relationship. God gave Adam the freedom to respond positively or negatively to being in a relationship.

We enter that relationship by faith, we remain in that relationship by that same faith, but a working faith.  We are not saved passively, but must follow, obey, be conformed to His Image in order to get the gift at the end which is eternal life.  There are no guarantees for anyone who believes or that if one does believe that they will always remain faithful.

The Blood of Jesus redeemed, reconciled all things to God. Col 1:20, there is no mention of only believers.

You fell into the classice confusion of conflating what Christ did and man's response to what Christ did in fulfilling the purpose of why we were created.God never dismissed the reason why we exist, why the world exists, but He was needed to right the world, to reverse the error of Adam. Which is why Christ is called the Second Adam.

As a believer He sees you exactly as you are. A sinner who is working with the Holy Spirit to be conformed to the Image of Christ. Attaining toward perfection.  He sees us as righteous as much as we do righteousness, I John 3:7.

Don't confuse the works of the law is trying to save us from death and sin which we cannot do, ONLY Christ did it for everyone, with works of faith or righteousness which we do with the Holy Spirit in attaining eternal life.

Hello Thad...  I wanted to look up conflation but after getting down to the second paragraph something became apparent...  you said that Christ saved the whole world...  I don't think that is scriptural.  according to the gospel we must believe and make a confession before men or the congregation of saints...  Sure God would that all men be saved but there is a coming to Him that must happen and it is through Christ only.  there are many men who now do and have professed that they know and knew God and how to get into His presence.  as well as those who do not believe that there is a God or that we can get into His grace... 

and then in the end you say that we must do works (faith).  Work is work whether physical, faith or what ever kind...  then it is not more by grace and men can boast that they had something to do with them getting to heaven outside of Jesus Christ which is the only way...

Sorry Thad...but scripture is clear that salvation is by grace through faith... works are because we have sought truth and realize what works are for.  Men work because we realize that what we do makes a difference in the lives of lost me and they also prove the love that we have for the brethren...  God does not need anything from us but He does desire that we love others...  even our enemies...

I am sure of this Thad...  take a look into it a bit further...  our righteousness is from Christ not of our selves...  all that we suppose that is righteous is as filthy rags...  before God it is naught...
12
Thanks very much for that.
  I had thought I stumbled on a whole new thing as far as the paradoxical argument that was presented there. And you're right that it is South Park like. Though I could have stomached sitting through SP far more so than it took to finish watching this just to get their point.

It is kind of funny that atheists go to enormous lengths to reiterate their belief that nothing called god is real. Sounds like they're worried more so than certain.
14
Theology Forum / Re: A study on the nature of eternal life
« Last post by Charlie24 on Today at 03:21:57 PM »
Charlie14,

Quote
They can't validate their claims because it's false doctrine.
and can you cite the source that declared it a false teaching?  Or is it false according to your personal opinion?

No one has shown it as false from scripture either by the method that SW uses nor from the teaching of the Church from the beginning to the present without change. They just happen to coincide.

We do not abide in Christ by "doing." We abide in Christ by faith. It is by faith that we do good.

Through our faith in Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit brings forth good fruits in us.

It is our faith in Jesus Christ that determines eternal life, not our works of good.

SM believes if we fail to do good we no longer abide in Christ. That is a lie!
15
Er, Jamie, you need to read Article I again. The final authority on spending rests with congress, not the president. His signature is not needed to stop funding.

It's going to be politically difficult to not fund something that was passed into law by a preceeding congress. In other words the will of the people will be usurped. However, a rider or bill that is passed for the purpose of defunding something does have to have the President's signature. It may be worth the effort and pain, but the GOP would lose big time over this, plus the Senate can hold it up with a cloture vote needing a 61 vote majority. Even if it doesn't have to be veto proof, it must pass the 61 vote cloture test.
16
1Ti 3:15  ...the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.
1Ti 3:16  Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

1Ti 6:3  If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness,
1Ti 6:4  he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing....

2Ti 1:8  Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God,
2Ti 1:9  who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
2Ti 1:10  and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
2Ti 1:11  for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher,
2Ti 1:12  which is why I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me.

2Ti 2:7  Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.
2Ti 2:8  Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel,
2Ti 2:9  for which I am suffering, bound with chains as a criminal. But the word of God is not bound!
2Ti 2:10  Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2Ti 2:11  The saying is trustworthy, for: If we have died with him, we will also live with him;
2Ti 2:12  if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us;
2Ti 2:13  if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.
2Ti 2:14  Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers.
2Ti 2:15  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16  But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness,
2Ti 2:17  and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
2Ti 2:18  who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.
2Ti 2:19  But God's firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: "The Lord knows those who are his," and, "Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity."
2Ti 2:20  Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable.
2Ti 2:21  Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.
2Ti 2:22  So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23  Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels.
2Ti 2:24  And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,
2Ti 2:25  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
2Ti 2:26  and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Satan was the original fool.   He offered the world to the One who created it.   

Luke 4:5  And the devil took him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time,
Luke 4:6  and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory, for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will.
Luke 4:7  If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours."
Luke 4:8  And Jesus answered him, "It is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.'"

These childish South Park-like videos are nothing new.   Why do they spend so much effort trying to disprove something they claim does not exist?   

Matt 16:18  And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Many have tried to destroy the Church and the Gospel of Christ.   

17
And what we have going forward is NOT a veto proof majority unless a whole gaggle of Democrats change their stripes. I WOULD prefer the GOP to be WAY more Teaparty-ish, and get rid of Boehner as Speaker, but the fact remains nothing much more than noise can be made without a vetoproof majority.

We can vote to repeal everything The Dems have done, but without Obama's signature for a couple of more years, we are in effect peeing into the wind.
18
Theology Forum / Re: A study on the nature of eternal life
« Last post by Thaddaeus on Today at 03:03:19 PM »
Charlie14,

Quote
They can't validate their claims because it's false doctrine.
and can you cite the source that declared it a false teaching?  Or is it false according to your personal opinion?

No one has shown it as false from scripture either by the method that SW uses nor from the teaching of the Church from the beginning to the present without change. They just happen to coincide.
19
Theology Forum / Re: A study on the nature of eternal life
« Last post by Buster D Body Crab on Today at 02:41:28 PM »
Christian monastery locations usa



Quote
Hopefully, I'll have time to do that between episodes of Ranger Walker...
Yes...spending time in carnal pursuits rather than in the Word...that gives a lot of understanding to your posts.
such a scandal!  they were reruns so I'm watching Downton Abbey.  I think taking a few hrs a day out of the word is just fine.  You might try it or are you in a monastery or some such place?


I try to live a monastic lifestyle...more time spent in spiritual things than earthly things. Although I do need to get out and get exercise now and then...but I find it much easier to maintain walking in the Spirit when I am looking at / listening to spiritual things. If I could find a monastery where I could get away from the distractions of life for a week here and there, I most definitely would take it up.
20
Theology Forum / Re: A study on the nature of eternal life
« Last post by Thaddaeus on Today at 02:37:45 PM »
TruthScientist,

Quote
the whole point to this discussion is whether man has any power to save himself from death.  Why death is here is another question and we mostly agree on that.  I say no, not on the physical plain or the supernatural plain can we effect our living for 200 years let alone eternity... 

the fixing of the problem of death is supernatural and the logical mind of man can not come up with any certainly of our being able to do it.  The supernatural (Salvation by the Creator by grace).  You can call believing and confessing that a work if you want to...  I could care less, but there is not another erg of energy that can be given to affect the promised supernatural means of living life eternally according to the promise of the Creator... 

Go back and look at what He sees when He looks at us...  A hint is that He has His grace tinted glasses colored with the precious blood of Jesus Christ and sees us according to His sacrifice for us.  We don't deserve to live eternally and neither are we able in any way to affect that except by what God has promised us... 

Even Israel has been taken off the works.  We don't work to be saved but because we are saved.  those who are lazy and untaught will suffer loss in the judgment but not of what the blood did... 

man has absolutely not power to save Himself, none what so ever...

As I started to read your post, I thought you were on the right track, but then slid off the track into conflation.

Christ performed two things that man cannot do. The general statement would be that man cannot reverse the fall of man. Christ came as man, Incarnated with our mortal human nature to do two things. Atone for sin and overcome death.

Christ did this for the world, for all mankind. It is an outright gift given to the world.  Christ reversed the fall, reconciled the world to God. Because Christ saved the world and all mankind from death and sin, which is known as salvation in scripture.

Because He did save us, He now, through the Holy Spirit, is calling all men to repentance, to enter into a relationship with Him.  This part everything to do with man. God created man for this specific purpose to be in union with Him for an eternity. But that union was based on a mutual relationship. God gave Adam the freedom to respond positively or negatively to being in a relationship.

We enter that relationship by faith, we remain in that relationship by that same faith, but a working faith.  We are not saved passively, but must follow, obey, be conformed to His Image in order to get the gift at the end which is eternal life.  There are no guarantees for anyone who believes or that if one does believe that they will always remain faithful.

The Blood of Jesus redeemed, reconciled all things to God. Col 1:20, there is no mention of only believers.

You fell into the classice confusion of conflating what Christ did and man's response to what Christ did in fulfilling the purpose of why we were created.God never dismissed the reason why we exist, why the world exists, but He was needed to right the world, to reverse the error of Adam. Which is why Christ is called the Second Adam.

As a believer He sees you exactly as you are. A sinner who is working with the Holy Spirit to be conformed to the Image of Christ. Attaining toward perfection.  He sees us as righteous as much as we do righteousness, I John 3:7.

Don't confuse the works of the law is trying to save us from death and sin which we cannot do, ONLY Christ did it for everyone, with works of faith or righteousness which we do with the Holy Spirit in attaining eternal life.
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