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Churches of Christ Forum / Re: Mormonism and the churches of Christ
« Last post by Johnb on Today at 04:30:00 AM »
It is ironic that Sidney Rigdon  who's pride drove him.  He wanted badly to be the leader of a new religious movement.  When the Restoration movement already had the Campbells and Stone he found opportunity with the simi- literate  Joseph Smith.   Smith was struggling for a set of doctrines and Rigdon became his second in charge and developed their salvation and church doctrine based on the principles he brought from the RM. Oddly his place in Mormon history was wiped out by Young in the struggle for control after Smith was killed in my home state.  So yes they do share some common roots and it was the CoC that borrowed the concept of the "one true church and restoration from the LDS. Stone and Campbell taught neither.  They referred to themselves as reformers and call for believers to accept one another. Today the man who formed most of the LDS doctrine and according to some even re wrote large passages of the BOM is not even a foot note in their official history.
Theology Forum / Re: The epistle of Paul to the Galatians.
« Last post by RB on Today at 02:55:08 AM »
I'm not laughing at your joke, because you're not behaving as a friend.
I was not trying to be funny, but serious. Those statements should not be used by believers~ something that one would expect from unbelievers. If I offended you, then please accept my apology; I was not attempting to do so.
PS Please do not insult me by saying publicly that you think I'm confused.  It may indeed have been the case, or maybe I just haven't thought out these doctrines carefully and am still coming to my own conclusions on the matter, hopefully the biblical ones.  (not to mention it's ugly!)
Well, for sure, one of us are confused, and it certainly would not offend me if you said the same to me.  Jesus spoke harder to his own disciples when they were in error; consider Jesus' words to Peter:
Matthew 16:21-25~"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
Did Peter mean well? Yes, I'm sure that he did, yet he was in ignorance concerning the true teachings of the word of God, concerning Jesus' purpose of coming into the world, and his ignorance was his own fault, and needed a sharp rebuke, and Jesus did so, much more than I did to you; would you not say?   Brother, many errors derive from sheer malice of the truth; whereas other errors have the best of intentions behind them. Our Lord's rebuke of Peter proves that good intentions does not excuse rebuke. God does not give sin a pass even when it is well-intentioned.  Here in Matthew 16, we learn what estimation in the sight of God belongs to what are called good intentions. . . . Certainly, if the feeling and judgment of the flesh be admitted, Peter’s intention was pious, or at least it looked well. And yet Christ could not have conveyed his censure in harsher or more disdainful language. . . . Christ reproves it so sharply, to teach us that it is only from the word of God that we ought to be wise and speak. Peter did not mean to miss the point of Jesus’ coming. I'm sure neither do you on faith and its relation to being born again. Yet Peter resisted our Lord’s teachings with the best of motives, desiring to help Jesus understand who the Messiah was supposed to be. But his motive was irrelevant to the issue at hand. Peter had made a huge blunder, and he needed quick instruction to break out of his error. The sharpness of Jesus’ rebuke to Peter also shows us that half-truths can be worse than outright errors. Peter was correct that Jesus was the Messiah; he was wrong about what that would mean. Even for those grounded in some sound doctrine, half-truths such as Peter’s are much harder to spot than outright denials of Jesus’ identity, making it imperative that we use precise language in our theological discussions, and rebuke in meekness considering our own weakness and proneness to error. Using the word "confused" is a very mild way of correcting another sheep.

Christian Singles Forum / Re: Daughter wants to date an unbeliever
« Last post by Messy on Today at 01:00:05 AM »
Everything you mentioned are things I fear.  It's hard because I feel like I'm preaching do as I say not what I do. 

 I worry about the physical aspect of any relationship (although she can't have intercourse until she has a small surgery, she could definitely become intimate in other ways...another do as I say not as I do) 

 We spoke at length about the possibility of a "false conversion" done with the sole purpose to make her happy. 

 His parents raised him as a Easter/Christmas "Christian", where my daughter has made a decision to let Christ be the Lord of her life.  I don't want her to compromise anything she believes to please him.

The last relationship she had was with the pastor's son about a year ago.  She broke up with him because he told his friends he'd have her in his bed by the end of the year... So the physical issue is definitely not exclusive to unbelievers. 

The only thing I can do us give her Godly advice and pray that she makes the right decision.  He said he'd go to church with her, so, I will be praying for his soul. 

It's so hard because she sees her parents, happy, in love, both faithful in their walk with the Lord, and she knows her mom dated him when he was an unbeliever.  We've told her our story a bunch of times... Her dad gave his life to the Lord on Christmas Eve, we were engaged on New Years Eve, one week later, and married in November.  Missionary dating is such a bad idea, and she doesn't see it because she sees us.  :( I guess for now, all I can do is pray.
My mother married an unbeliever. Gave a lot of trouble, but they're happily married now and he's almost saved. I just wanted to obey God, so I married a pastor. Then he dumped me and I was like: you can't trust those christians. My parents have a much better marriage. So I remarried an atheist. It was a disaster from day one, I fell from my faith and I think it was sin to remarry, since my ex only chatted.
The  after that divorce no christian wants you. Wanted to do the same thing with a guy who did believe but was on pot. Wanted to marry him. Didn't listen to my mother. Then I asked a guy on a forum. He was wise. He didn't say don't do it, but that I should take it really slow. Broke it off the same week.
My mother just prayed.
I think she is disappointed with those supposedly holy christians now. Just warn her to be just friends and take it very slow and not get into temptation by hanging out together in an apartment. I know succesful couples where he converted but they all had very strict boundaries and made it clear that marriage was no option if he didn't convert.
The guy I married did say the sinner's prayer, but wasn't saved. He also started drugs again as soon as we married, but I gave in. If this guy is decent and respects her boundaries and keeps his hands with him it could go well. Just pray a lot.
Christian Singles Forum / Re: Chatting with someone
« Last post by Messy on Today at 12:35:00 AM »
You are looking for a Meg Ryan, Tom Hanks "You've Got Mail situation and I can assure you IT DOES NOT HAPPEN.

At least not in real life.

First thing is that NO man.... I repeat NO... wants to really know about your past.

No matter what they say they don't.

I speak from experience when one told me that when I meet someone and it is moving forward nicely, do not tell them about my past. Not until I would be in a committed relationship.

Next is DO NOT expect any chatting or pen pal experience to last very long. Not beyond a few exchanges to a couple of weeks.  UNLESS.. and this is a major unless.... You are willing to go the cyber fun endof things.

Not only is that a bad idea.... morally, it also is the wrong reason he will hang around.

Now... there is one decent pen pal site that I have found. It is not Christian but there are enough people on it that is you write to one and then it is over others are available. Pen Pals Now.
You get to select age groups and if it is men, women, or both you want to write to.

I have probably talked to a couple hundred over the past 6 years on there.

I learned early on not to be specific.... but it does fill time when I am looking to fill time.

Not true.  I do want to know some things about a woman's past.  I want to make sure she's not anything like the nutter I was with before.
Yes when you had a bad experience you don't want that again and first thing the Dutch guys I spoke to did, was ask all about my past almost immediately. That one guy didn't, because he had never been in a relationship I think.
News from Around the World / Re: !!!!BREXIT!!!!
« Last post by mommydi on Yesterday at 08:43:45 PM »

AVZ is a female who lives in Asia.

My apologies AVZ. Correct my previous post to:

You are wrong Ms. Knowall......

Both of you are incorrect and it shows how easy it is to be misguided by assumptions.

No, I'm not incorrect.  ::smile::
Hi Lisa98,

I hope you saw my other reply to you in the Mod’s section. My post called “Problem with Online Friendship” was deleted by accident somehow. Maybe it was a glitch. So I’m writing in a new post.

I actually saw your reply to me when you sent it before the thread was deleted. I had quickly read it and was blown away. It led me to do some research. There was 1 comment that did it. I wish I can remember your exact words because it just hit me like a ton of bricks and it was like something in me was so convicted! I even felt like I was going to cry (in a good way!) You said something like why would I continue to be friends with someone and ignore my own needs when I know what she is doing. Something like that. Do you remember better? Well it really hurt me to see what I was doing and I didn’t know why. That turned me to the internet to see if I could find answers. And I did get answers.

I am a Co-dependant (perhaps you even mentioned it in your note, but I could not digest it all at the time). I am this way because I was abused when throughout my childhood. I was also abandoned, as well. I could never please my father. In fact I never even got praise when I did something right. I just never got any praise, whatsoever. I was also not allowed to have feelings, and I was ridiculed for having them. I was also not allowed to stand up for myself and speak up. I didn’t get any love or validation. My parents were always fighting and never got along. Growing up the environment at home was very tense and I was afraid of my father. But get this. When we went out as a family together my Dad changed his face completely. He became a completely different person and in public we were the perfect family. He talked to me like I didn’t know him. He was so nice, but it made me hate him because he was a phony and it was scary to see what a different persona he put on in public. My Dad was actually a bully at home, he could be very cruel, but in public he was a major people pleaser and doormat. He cared so much about what other people thought of him and his family and at home he reprimand me and my sibling if we ever so dared to not go out of our way, or be perfect in front of his friends and etc. Meanwhile he never gave me any love and neglected me and made fun of me. To the day when he died, I can say I never knew him.
He never let me know him.

Wow. Major breakthrough. It’s been many years since I have forgiven him and gave him to the Lord. Since then I barely ever think of him, even in a bad way. But somehow, I have continued to act out my programming.

I wouldn’t say I have been really bad. There have been occasions in my life where I actually did break from a friend. One was an unbeliever that didn’t like I was a Christian, and another was one where when we went out she never talked to me.She also was someone that didn’t want to talk about her life, was mean to me, and I stayed with her for a very long time.

I think a lot of some of my other friendships in my life thoug,h really show that I am a co-dependant. )There was one where I was friends with a co-worker who consistently stood in front of my desk for 2 hours on a reg. basis and poured out her life to me, and the only one time I went to her for a problem I had, she kept interrupting me rudely all the time ( I have no idea why) and didnt give me the time of day).Meaning I have no boundaries and I have a need to outside love and validation. II can see now why my friendships were always ending up the same, or that I seemed to attract always the same type of people.

And you right. My online friend in this current situation is a definite energy sucker. You see it is true I go out of my way to be a martyr and do everything I can to cater to them because that is what my father did. And yes, I will do it over my own well being.

Pretty sad and possibly dangerous.

There is a part of me that is actually very happy right now, because realizing I was contributing to the problem, means I have power to correct it from happening again. I am not a victim with this new knowledge!

So I have decided 100% to set good and healthy boundaries with my online friend. I am positive I will never go back.  I will only chat 1x a week with her, and there will be things I will not address anymore. Whether she likes it or not. And if she doesn’t then the relationship will just naturally fizzle.

So, Lisa, thank you! I am very glad what you shared with me! It’s life changing  Praise God 

 I am so sorry though that I could not fully remember all you said about your friendship that you ended. I remember you were quite detailed and it makes me sad it’s gone. I do remember you saying something like you had allowed her back into your life a 2nd time, thinking she had changed when in fact she hadn’t. I remember that. If you would like to explain again, please feel free to you, but if not again, no worries, ok?

I guess I just have at least question for you ? What advice could you give me to help me to heal better? Any recommendations? Books, etc… Obviously praying about and asking for help from God and the Holy Spirit is right up there, but if there is anything else that helped you, I would love to know.

p.s.  Did you ever get obsessive thoughts when you started getting stronger ? I couldn’t sleep last night because I was afraid what she’s going to think of me ?

Thanks so much Lisa. God bless you!   ::smile::

News from Around the World / Re: !!!!BREXIT!!!!
« Last post by AVZ on Yesterday at 07:31:37 PM »

AVZ is a female who lives in Asia.

My apologies AVZ. Correct my previous post to:

You are wrong Ms. Knowall......

Both of you are incorrect and it shows how easy it is to be misguided by assumptions.
News from Around the World / Re: !!!!BREXIT!!!!
« Last post by AVZ on Yesterday at 07:27:36 PM »

Referenda can be legally binding. The last one was.

Nope in UK it is not because it is against Parlimentary Sovereignty. In the UK a referendum does not bind parliament to act in accordance to the outcome.
Parliament has the autonomy and sovereignty to completely ignore the outcome.
None of the referenda held in the Uk ever was binding in any shape or form as it would be in violation of the constitution.

You are wrong Mr. Knowall.

The 2011 Referendum was legally binding. It was written into the Act that established it.

Even Wikipedia knows that.
 "This was only the second nationwide referendum to be held (the first being the EEC referendum in 1975) and the first that was not merely consultative; being "post-legislative" and therefore committing the government to give effect to its decision”

Technically incorrect.
It was not the referendum of 2011 itself that was legally binding. Prior to the referendum Parliament drafted the agreement that none of the parties would invoke Parliamentary Sovereignty and contest the outcome of the referendum. That's why the 2011 referendum had to be post legislative.

Give you an example:
You cannot have a referendum whether referenda should be legally binding, because the outcome of that referendum itself is not legally binding.
What you can do is draft legislation first and agree that you will accept the result as binding for the agreeable parties.

The referendum itself however remains non-binding because that's how it is determined constitutionally.
If you want to make referenda legally binding, you must change constitutional legislation itself.
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Obama and the Muslim Brotherhood
« Last post by Rella on Yesterday at 06:45:35 PM »
I agree enough is enough.
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Dooms day...yuk...
« Last post by mclees8 on Yesterday at 06:24:44 PM »
mclee8, what does the tribulation have to do with salvation?  I don't need a thesis just a verse or two... 

you need to read the bible mac... how can you say that anyone is getting away with anything...  there is a judgment for every which way...  the important one is the one that a believer comes under the moment he accepts the facts of the gospel, he falls under the judgment of the innocent lamb at calvary who took away the sin of the world...  (John 1:29)

when a non believer dies he is judged by that same judgment and because he did not simply believe he has to receive the death that Jesus paid for those of us who trusted in His dying in our stead...  they will have the second death to deal with...  and the others you know bema and gwt and judgment of the nations

no one can get away from what he deserved except believers by the grace of GOD...  none of us deserves eternal life...  if was a gift lest we in the pride of life should boast that we had something to do with it...

I don't know why you want to be chumping on me kat, read your bible and sorry you got caught up in the assembly...  I don't get into church groups, there is only one true church...ain't Baptist, Methodist or any donomination...  see if you can figure out what it is...

TS Can you show me the biblical foundation that supports your belief.

already done it...give me a particular...

OK we can start with this question. Show me where you see anywhere in  scripture that solidly supports that there are two different saints. ones who have to suffer and ones that don't.
  sorry mac...  I have never heard of such a thing...  is there anyone who lives saint or sinner who does not suffer from something?  I wouldn't think so...  suffering has a wide swarth...  from a squiter bite to a severe back pain and all above, below and in between...

Alright I will rephrase.  Where does It say there will be pre trib Saints. And tribulation saints. Saints that  escape the tribulation and the poor souls that were not  good enough so they have to suffer the antichrist and Gods wrath.   Pre trib saints and tribulation saints where is it stated or even hinted.

You say read your Bible so why don't you read some and prove me wrong.
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