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Theology Forum / Re: Total Depravity
« Last post by LexKnight on Today at 03:19:09 PM »
I have a question. If men truly were totally depraved, wouldn't that mean God should have no expectation of responsibility towards men? And if that were the case, what would be the use of His commands?
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I wasn't there. But I've been in a lot of debates with atheists. Some of them very long, rude, but it's ended up being obvious who was being a fool.

For example, one of atheists' favorite things is "I believe in science."

Yeah, like science is MINE and you CHRISTIANS can't have it. I call them on their matter-of-fact language. Like what: to you, scientists are like prophets and oracles and religious institutions who should be believed without question? That's not even what science is or claims to be. Personally I have some need to brush up on some scientific facts that atheists like to avoid, but usually I can stay on top of it on a matter of philosophy.

I had a LONG talk with a guy not too long ago. Neither of us freaked out, but his wife did.

I'm sorry this was probably painful. Just be sure: you are talking to a fool, a malicious person who at his core is full of terror for what is missing in him.
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General Discussion Forum / Re: What do I do about this crisis?
« Last post by dogsandcats on Today at 03:08:28 PM »

Thanks everyone for the support here.
I have been really struggling today. I blocked him. Then I UNBLOCKED him.  (mistake) and then I have blocked him again.

He started saying he was going to buy me a ring again - that I don't realize what I'm doing - making such a mistake.

And last I saw -- he was driving to my town to try and get me to go to dinner.

I'm not going to go. But, why is it that I can't hate this guy? WHY do I still WANT to be with him? It makes no sense to an outsider and I realize it makes no sense whatsoever.

I'm really trying here. Prayers appreciated.

I actually just had a enormous fight with him because he told me that he needs to "wait and see if I can control my guilt and urges to see my son more than he can tolerate" ... before he can get engaged to me.

I said - I'm sorry - but me MOVING IN with you and QUITING MY CAREER is MY equivalent of committing to marriage and if he can't do the same - then we can't move forward.

He freaked out and said that he can't marry me unless "he can make sure we can get along..."

I said - well I can't just wait and see and put my own life and my son's life in jeopardy.  He went off on a tangent and said that I clearly like to destroy this relationship and that he hopes I realize what I am doing to him -- by manipulating and twisting his words.

Then he said - why don't you just go back to work then!  So he started screaming and driving erratically and telling me I just like to ruin good things by avoiding commitment and showing him I can be a "soft woman who truly loves him..."

So he dropped me off at work....and now he's texting and apologizing and saying he's so sorry.  He loves me and that he WILL marry me -- and he was just fueled by the anger surrounding my insecurity and to PLEASE trust and believe in him and that he will do whatever it takes to "take care of me..."

I can tell you if he had his own car I would have left right then and there.  I am debating on telling him to rent a car and go back to his house and I will stay here.  I'm so sick over this...

Get a friend or relative with you for safety, and demand that he leaves your home and never comes back. Of
course you are sick, because he is playing with you and messing with your head. I simply cant believe that you are prepared to leave you own child for this appalling man. There is NO WAY that I would EVER leave a child for anyone.

Again, leave him NOW, block all contact, tell him what you will do if he comes after you, and move on. Do you have family who can support you and protect you? When you leave he will beg, plead, maybe even threaten to kill himself, threaten you, so you most stop all contact for good.
14
Red Baker,

Quote
I am always very reluctant in answering your post, for a few reasons; mainly, your post always diverts people away from the main teaching of the thread, and one must try to reason with someone who labors to push a system of works, that is mixed with your "Holy Traditions" and scriptures~but scriptures taken totally out of contexts, just like a wicked man would rip child from the womb of a mother, with no conscience whatsoever, and then say~I have done no evil.   
I guess it always helps to establish strawmen before you actually enter the discussion. Assertions which don't apply and you have never given any evidence to support them.

Quote
God did indeed create man in his own image, yet not in the sense in which you blindly have stated, when you said these words:
 "That being free and sovereign.".

Am I hearing you correctly?  Your system invents wicked doctrines, and a god after your own making.  The image that the scriptures speaks of is certainly not sovereign in the SAME SENSE that God is absolutely sovereign. I know well where you will try to take this, but, still, man is not sovereign but is very MUCH dependent upon Almighty God for everything, and God is alone self sufficient and is in need of NO ONE.

Did I compare man to God? So immediately you are off running on the wrong foot. It has nothing to do with God Himself or that God is surely self-sufficent in need of nothing.  Is that the only use of sovereign you know.  The US is a sovereign country, does that mean it is like God?

Man is free and sovereign in his rationality. God cannot coerce man, compel man to anything against man's will. The is true of the devil. He was created free and sovereign as well.  Both are plying their influences upon man. Man is the sole determinent of his eternal status since Christ has redeemed this world from death, sin and Satan. That is why God can be just with man. Man is completely responsible for his actions, choices and will be judged accordingly. Man is sovereign in his own will and God in His Sovereign will created man as such.


I could ask for scripture to refute it but I know none exists.  There is no such thing as "irresistable grace" or "preserverance of the saints (OSAS)".

Quote
Man was created with a free will, but SOON lost it to the devil who robbed him through deception.  The image in which man was created AFTER God, is a image of KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM, UNDERSTANDING, RIGHTEOUSNESS,and TRUE HOLINESS.............. In the new birth, these images are recreated in the NEW MAN~Cp. Ephesians 4:24 with Colossians 3:10.
where does it say man lost his free will in scripture?
Interesting what you consider the Image of God to be. I don't think I have ever heard of these as being in the Image of God. Sounds a little too much of Gnosticism again.  Man is saved through knowledge and wisdom.
It is also interesting that the two texts does not state the birth of the NEW makes us this way, but that it is what all beleivers must attain to, grow in order to become like Christ, to be transformed.
Though in the predestination logic this would be done instantly, though why the wait, since some men were so declared before the foundations of the earth.  It just shows how incongruous your statements and use of texts just does not align with what scripture means.

As always, I await your interesting take on scriptural things.

You state  "Man is saved through knowledge and wisdom. "

You have any scriptures that support this?
15
News from Around the World / Re: John 3:16
« Last post by Nevertheless on Today at 03:04:30 PM »
Thanks!
16
News from Around the World / John 3:16
« Last post by notreligus on Today at 03:03:00 PM »
This forum is loaded with many posts of bad news.   I thought it was time for some Good News.


John 3:16  "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:17  For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
17
Christian Politics Forum / John Kasich - Governor of Ohio
« Last post by notreligus on Today at 02:59:44 PM »
What are your thoughts on John Kasich, the governor of Ohio, as a Presidential candidate?    He's hinting that he might run.   I think he'd be a good candidate.   He's not got a flamboyant type of personality but comes across as straight to-the-point, and some think he's rude because of that .   He's not a supporter of Obamacare but got some heat over his statement that Obamacare would not likely be repealed.   I think he was just stating what he thought was true.   
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PS I am retired military and most in the military are loyal to freedom and the constitution but not necessarily the government and under the right circumstances would support a revolution.

Normally I would agree with that statement, but Obama has been rearranging the top military leadership in this country.  Those that are onboard he places in key, influential positions.  Those that are loyal to the constitution (like Petreaus) are thoroughly discredited and publicly shamed (with the help of Obama's media allies).  Obama is carefully and steadily shifting the culture of the military so that the freedom loving, constitutional loyalists are being forced out, or leaving of their own volition due to the cultural shift.  Those that are left will be onboard with whatever is going to happen.
19
Charlie24,

Quote
I'm not going to argue this Thad. There is no gain for anyone involved considering Luther differed from Calvin and Spurgeon from both. Predestination has many definitions, it just depends on who is asked. The Calvinists are as everyone else, divided among themselves. Just trying to nail down a solid definition of predestination is almost impossible. It is obvious our definitions are different. I've been through it to many times, don't care for it again. My original comments did not include predestination.
There is only one definition of predestination. The application is what is different.  The application of the original doctrine of Calvin and then the Westminster Confession is what cannot be supported by scripture.

You are correct that your comments did not include predestination, however, in our discussions before you held to predestination.  You need to decide which is what you want to believe.  Your comments above can in no circumstance be included in any application of predestination within the reformed view. They are diametrically opposite.

The article of Crosby is predestination is every paragraph. Which is why none of it actually aligns with scripture.

It is not an argument but a theological discussion. If you think that moral responsibility is conducive to reformed predestination, you need to formulate such an arguement because no one has done so since Calvin first established the principle in a systematic faith.  Not Spurgeon, or Pink or Boettner, or Hodges, or any of the more current ones, MacArther, Piper, Sproul or Berkhof and many others.

I didn't care about predestination when I studied it in school nor do I care about it now. What concern is it of mine whether God hand picks of His own free will or man decides of his own free will? Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Those who don't call on the Lord simply don't care no matter who's will. Why argue about it?
20
Red Baker,

Quote
I am always very reluctant in answering your post, for a few reasons; mainly, your post always diverts people away from the main teaching of the thread, and one must try to reason with someone who labors to push a system of works, that is mixed with your "Holy Traditions" and scriptures~but scriptures taken totally out of contexts, just like a wicked man would rip child from the womb of a mother, with no conscience whatsoever, and then say~I have done no evil.   
I guess it always helps to establish strawmen before you actually enter the discussion. Assertions which don't apply and you have never given any evidence to support them.

Quote
God did indeed create man in his own image, yet not in the sense in which you blindly have stated, when you said these words:
 "That being free and sovereign.".

Am I hearing you correctly?  Your system invents wicked doctrines, and a god after your own making.  The image that the scriptures speaks of is certainly not sovereign in the SAME SENSE that God is absolutely sovereign. I know well where you will try to take this, but, still, man is not sovereign but is very MUCH dependent upon Almighty God for everything, and God is alone self sufficient and is in need of NO ONE.

Did I compare man to God? So immediately you are off running on the wrong foot. It has nothing to do with God Himself or that God is surely self-sufficent in need of nothing.  Is that the only use of sovereign you know.  The US is a sovereign country, does that mean it is like God?

Man is free and sovereign in his rationality. God cannot coerce man, compel man to anything against man's will. The is true of the devil. He was created free and sovereign as well.  Both are plying their influences upon man. Man is the sole determinent of his eternal status since Christ has redeemed this world from death, sin and Satan. That is why God can be just with man. Man is completely responsible for his actions, choices and will be judged accordingly. Man is sovereign in his own will and God in His Sovereign will created man as such.


I could ask for scripture to refute it but I know none exists.  There is no such thing as "irresistable grace" or "preserverance of the saints (OSAS)".

Quote
Man was created with a free will, but SOON lost it to the devil who robbed him through deception.  The image in which man was created AFTER God, is a image of KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM, UNDERSTANDING, RIGHTEOUSNESS,and TRUE HOLINESS.............. In the new birth, these images are recreated in the NEW MAN~Cp. Ephesians 4:24 with Colossians 3:10.
where does it say man lost his free will in scripture?
Interesting what you consider the Image of God to be. I don't think I have ever heard of these as being in the Image of God. Sounds a little too much of Gnosticism again.  Man is saved through knowledge and wisdom.
It is also interesting that the two texts does not state the birth of the NEW makes us this way, but that it is what all beleivers must attain to, grow in order to become like Christ, to be transformed.
Though in the predestination logic this would be done instantly, though why the wait, since some men were so declared before the foundations of the earth.  It just shows how incongruous your statements and use of texts just does not align with what scripture means.

As always, I await your interesting take on scriptural things.

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