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Obviously not, but your coyness speaks volumes.
I'm sorry- you've lost me. Would you please elaborate?
The Churches of Christ have already cooked the man until he is past well-done...
It would make a world of difference here if you could learn to use some qualifiers, even one word. "Some" Churches of Christ. Some.
One might say "the Baptists" like to picket and protest at funerals, but you and I both know that wouldn't be right, just because some group happens to wear the name "Baptist" that does that.
Many Churches of Christ embrace Lucado and his materials.
Population wise, I would say a lot more embrace him than want to drag him through the mud.
Would they, would you, embrace his quote that I posted yesterday??
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/grace-is-everything-jesus/
I didn't see anything to give me heartburn. However I do believe we must accept him and it isn't a totally passive thing as he implied. He knocks and we open the door. And HE does the work of salvation. Our acceptance of the gift detracts nothing from its pricelessness and gloriousness nor does our acceptance earn any part of the unearnable gift.
As I said I don't agree 100% with my own preacher, but yes Max is a tremendous teacher. I have read most of his books and one of his books, I can't recall the title, really ministered to me and my family during my colon cancer in 1994.
Obviously not, but your coyness speaks volumes.
Jimmy...I honestly wished that we could sit at a table and look eye to eye and discuss these things... but it is what it is...
Israel being saved is in two aspects... national as a people (to which their covenant and promise was made with and to Abraham) when the scripture talks about them being saved you have to figure which one is being spoken of... the other is individual salvation which if they do not confess Christ as savior as it says in chapter 10 they will see ahab and jezebel...
Show me where national Israel is promised salvation.
The national salvation of Israel speaks to the keeping of the covenant and promise that God made with Abraham that they would never be extinguished from the earth... This is what is so impressive about the history of the OT how God would let them go to the edge (Athaliah) and allow them to be captive to other countries and would recover them when He felt the chastening by their enemies was sufficient...
And look at them today, a small nation in the midst of their hated kindred the children of Ismael who take vows to not rest until they are destroyed. With all the favorable circumstances in the middle east against Israel and for their opponents God is showing Himself strong. When I studied the promise and covenant followed Israel down to Jesus and then looked at modern Israel I am sold on God being faithful and well able to keep His Word... the evidence is abundantly clear to me without question...
is
Salvation is not now nor has it ever been a national promise. It is and has always been an individual promise. It is and always has been by Grace through faith of the individual.
The Churches of Christ have already cooked the man until he is past well-done...
It would make a world of difference here if you could learn to use some qualifiers, even one word. "Some" Churches of Christ. Some.
One might say "the Baptists" like to picket and protest at funerals, but you and I both know that wouldn't be right, just because some group happens to wear the name "Baptist" that does that.
Many Churches of Christ embrace Lucado and his materials.
Population wise, I would say a lot more embrace him than want to drag him through the mud.
Would they, would you, embrace his quote that I posted yesterday??
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/grace-is-everything-jesus/
Lighthammer, you really don't understand the rules that govern translation, do you? We have lambs, and we have the Lamb of God. Men have god's and Christian’s have the God of the Bible. We have mortal father’s and we have God our spiritual Father!
Of course we all have a mortal father; they planted their seed in our mother’s womb therefore they are our earthly father's. Father is also used as a metaphor. Example, Jesus said to the Pharisees, John 8:44, "Ye are of your father the devil." Rom.4:12, Abraham is said to be "The father of circumcision," all in lower case. Remote ancestors are said to be our father's, Mark 11:10, "Blessed be the kingdom of our father David," again in lower case (f).
Now when we speak of our spiritual Father, our Holy Father, we have but one. This is always in upper case (F.) Example, Isa.9:6, "For unto us a child is born (meaning Jesus,) unto us a son is given --- and his name shall be called --- The Everlasting Father." John 8:41, "We have one (1) Father, even God (meaning Jehovah,)" ver.42, Jesus is speaking to the Pharisees, "If God (Jehovah) were your Father, you would love me."
Matt.23:9, Jesus said, "Call no man your father upon the earth." This is used in the lower case. Jesus is reprimanding the Pharisees for taking the titles of father, and master (meaning teacher) for themselves. These men like many today attempt to distinguish themselves (spiritually) from others.
No Christian is to distinguish themself one from another, because, ver.8 reads, "We are all brethren (meaning brothers in Christ.)" The rest of the verse Matt.23 reads “For one (1) is your (Jesus speaking to his disciples) Father (meaning spiritual Father) which is in heaven.”
Catholic Catechism, page 207,
The Pope is called the Holy Father. Note upper case. This title of Father belongs to God alone, see Matt.23! The Pope is called the Holy Pontiff, which means (bridge.) To calm this, is to take what belongs to Jesus Christ, for He alone is our Mediator, our go-between, our intercessor, our reconciler, He alone is man’s bridge to the Father; no church or man can take his place as mediator!
The Catholic Church claims, page 208, “Salvation through the Church.” They wrongfully clam that they are the one and only Church of Jesus Christ. Wrong again! Catholic Church claims Peter as first See of the Church. The Catholic church began with Gentiles, not Jews.
Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, not Peter. 2 Tim.1:11, “I (Paul) am appointed a preacher, and an apostle and a teacher of the Gentiles.” Rom.11:13, “For I (Paul) speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles.”
Peter as were the other 11 apostles were commanded by Jesus Matt.10:5, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not.” 21 years had passed before Peter was told by Paul that the Gentiles had been brought into the Church by his apostleship, until then Peter had no knowledge of this. When he went to Rome, he went to the Jews' in Rome.
You can have the last word; we have gotten way off track from my original tread! Thanks for your time and comments,
Phil
I understand this is your confluted view of scripture, but your whole statement is a mesh mash of man made theories that don't even align with themselves let alone scripture.Actually we do all die once, however all men will escape the permanence of this death ONLY BECAUSE CHRIST REDEEMED MANKIND FROM DEATH. You would end up a pile of dust without the redemption of Christ from death.I don't understand redemption then. Who is the pope speaking to? If he wants aeithist to hear his message, then redemption, the word means to be redeemed or restored, restored to what?
I was understood it to mean redeemed from the wages of sin which is death specifically the first death but I may be off in expressing the Church's position.
Nobody escapes the first death, except those who are translated to glory at the Rapture.
Natural death is for all (except those who are raptured), but only those who are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb will escape judgment and eternal death...the second death. All will be resurrected in their time---the righteous at the Rapture to enjoy the Bema Seat judgment for reward, and the wicked will rise just over 1000 years later, to stand before the Great White Throne. They do not benefit from Christ's redemptive work in any way due to their rejection of it.
Natural death as you call it is not natural. It is one of the most unnatural things that can happen to man. Man was created to be eternal.
That so-called natural death is the result of the fall of man. Adam died, became mortal due to his sin. Satan has controlled man through this power of death. Death, physical death is the annihilation of the human being. Gen 3:19.
The ONLY way anyone will ever stand in judgement is because Christ redeemed us all from death, the condemnation through Adam. It is why He is called the Second Adam. He reversed the first Adam. It is Incarnational. I have been explaining this to you for over a year. You have consistently denied the Incarnation, the very event, redemption from death, that give you as a human being the ability to have a relationship with God. Your view actually denies Christ, It denies that Christ saved the world, that Christ is preeminent in this world and not Satan. The text and context that you need to seriously study is the whole chapter of I Cor 15. It explains the centrality of the resurrection, the purpose of His Incarnation. It explains the content of the Incarnation, the salvfic content that you have consistently denied, and denied quite vociferously.
Then you have this unbiblical concept of two judgements. Scripture only speaks of one. The end times final judgement when all the dead are raised, all the books are opened and all men will be judged. You really need to twist scripture to get two resurrections, the physical one.
You are redeemed no matter what you think you can do regarding it. Man cannot reject it, cannot change it, cannot effect it in any way. All men, without exception will be raised in the last day. John 6:39 states that none will be lost but will be raised.
Instead of continuing to espouse such false teachings, it might behove you to do a little studying as I have suggested many times. It may be what you believe, but what you believe cannot be found in scripture as it has been understood from the beginning.
I am afraid that you are mixing up some things.
See, leadership and succession are two different things.
Peter could only be a successor if Jesus was dead...but He is not. He is alive.
That's why the order of Melchizedek is not one of succession.
We can take verses out of context all day long and try to build a doctrine.
Yes and you seem to have mastered that quite well.
is that judging...smile!!! when you run out of stuff to say, you run to say stuff...
I responed twice honestly, concisely using the scripture that was in question. you and notreligus ignored it all both times. I didn't run out of stuff to say, I was, it seems, simply responding to a brick wall. Gave it up.
I don't even know how you get this. All black and white thinking and tilting at windmills. I see those ghosts are still after you.Which C of C posters here like Max Lucado and think that he is a fine Christian man and teacher?Well, hi!
Have his earlier books but they all started sounding the same, so I haven't bought the most recent ones. I have no reason to not believe he is a "fine Christian man." I'm not enamored by his teaching style, nor do I agree with some of his ideas.
But I'd go bar hopping with him.
The Churches of Christ have already cooked the man until he is past well-done, but you have to come along and stick your fork into him too.
