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21
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by s1n4m1n on Yesterday at 12:31:47 PM »
Quote
That is because the third as presented is not totally accurate.

I'd be happy to modify it.

3) Original Grace - God did judge Adam and all his posterity but also justified everyone (in view of Christ's sacrifice) such that all are born pure and holy before God under God's grace and it is only an individual's subsequent personal sin which separates one from God.
22
General Discussion Forum / Re: Drugs
« Last post by jeager on Yesterday at 12:21:14 PM »
The only reason to smoke pot it to get high, catch a buzz.
A person can have a (one) beer and not be even a little drunk.
Big difference.

I don't drink or do illegal drugs.
Alcoholism killed both my parents.
After 3 rehabs, nearly dead twice from acute alcohol poisoning, I don't touch the stuff.

Drinking in moderation is o.k. for those not afflicted with the disease of alcoholism
but it's something I can never do.

Prayer, meditation, A.A. meetings, keep me sober.
Addiction:
Cunning, baffling, powerful.

The last rehab I was in I met other patients, lots of them were so very young.
Nice looking ladies also and from "good" families and good financial capacity.
ALL hooked on heroin.
Alcohol and pot were the "gateway" drugs eventually leading to heroin.

Heroin overdose is epidemic now and kills many.
What a shame.
23
Theology Forum / Re: The baptism in Mt.28:19
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 12:07:15 PM »
Michael please answer me this;  John said that Jesus was going to baptize with the spirit so my question to you is what scripture could you show me where this is done?

One instance is at Pentecost in Acts 2.

At what point in Acts 2 were any baptized with the Holy Spirit?
24
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 12:03:51 PM »
Romans 5:12-20 confirms the third.

My impression is that your position is the second.

That is because the third as presented is not totally accurate.
25
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 11:59:02 AM »
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

In Adam, it says "all die", unlike in Christ, it does not say "all shall" die.

In Christ it says "all shall" be made alive, unike in Adam, it does not say "all lives". 

Do you take the "all" as absolute all or not? Does the "all" include babies?
Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death.  He is speaking about physical death and the resurrection (1 Cor 15:21). The righteous as well as the unrighteous will die and be resurrected.  The difference is not who will be resurrected; rather the difference will be the destination after being resurrected. 

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.(John 5:28-29)

IN Christ, ALL shall be made alive. You said that Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death, but is speaking about physical death and the resurrection.

Focusing on the  resurrection, Paul said "IN" Christ. Why? What similitude and resemblance will that be IN Adam? Is not what you say that all will be resurrected? The death you say Paul here speaks about is only physical, which you believe all will experience because all is created like Adam who naturally dies physically. So it has nothing to do really with anything that Adam did. What is the similitude of this with Christ on the resurrection of all or that all shall be made alive? It does not make sense, I'd have to say.

Michael, read the whole chapter.

I did. So go ahead and address the issue.

I did.  The subject of Paul's discourse is physical death and the resurrection.

1Co 15:21  For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.

Jesus is not just the savior of the world.  He is also the One who brings the resurrection of the dead, all of the dead.  And in point of fact there is almost nothing in the entire chapter that singles out the distinction between the saved and the condemned.  The distinction of a final destination of heaven or hell is not really addressed directly. The destination of the saved is alluded to in a verse here or there but the real intent of Paul's discourse is on the resurrection itself, and more importantly the author of the resurrection, namely, Jesus Christ.
26
General Discussion Forum / Re: Drugs
« Last post by Nevertheless on Yesterday at 11:58:44 AM »
Alcohol causes a lot of problems from over indulgence.   But "isn't for any illness" & "nearly always is harmful for our bodies" contradicts scripture in my opinion.


Quote from: Psalm 104
14 You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
    and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
15     and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
    and bread to strengthen man's heart.
27
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by Michael2012 on Yesterday at 11:50:05 AM »
Romans 5:12-20 confirms the third.

My impression is that your position is the second.
28
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by Michael2012 on Yesterday at 11:47:12 AM »
So which is the Christian doctrine?

1) Original Sin - God's judgement upon Adam's sin effected him and all his posterity such that all are born separated from God and in need of His grace

or

2) Innate Purity of Mankind - God's judgement upon Adam's sin only effected him and was of no effect upon his posterity such that all are born pure and holy before God in no need of God's grace.

or

3) Original Grace - God did judge Adam and all his posterity but also justified everyone (in view of Christ's sacrifice) such that all are born pure and holy before God under God's grace and it is only an individual's subsequent personal sin which separates one from God.



Someone once argued to me of the third, which he called Original Grace, so I decided to include it.

Perhaps to complete:

4) None of the above
29
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by Michael2012 on Yesterday at 11:34:37 AM »
If we are going with the third option then every one under Adam had it a way lot harder . Adam was pure and only had 1 thing to not do. Don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Mankind after him had hundreds to keep. Is that grace or a curse? God even cursed the ground so it was working against man, to make it even harder.Dont get mad , don't steal even if you are hungry don't dont don't dont don't. If it was the same grace,  then at least put me in the garden to start with and only give me one thing not to do.
::smile:: I hope you're not saying God is unfair by that.
30
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by Michael2012 on Yesterday at 11:31:00 AM »
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

In Adam, it says "all die", unlike in Christ, it does not say "all shall" die.

In Christ it says "all shall" be made alive, unike in Adam, it does not say "all lives". 

Do you take the "all" as absolute all or not? Does the "all" include babies?
Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death.  He is speaking about physical death and the resurrection (1 Cor 15:21). The righteous as well as the unrighteous will die and be resurrected.  The difference is not who will be resurrected; rather the difference will be the destination after being resurrected. 

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.(John 5:28-29)

IN Christ, ALL shall be made alive. You said that Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death, but is speaking about physical death and the resurrection.

Focusing on the  resurrection, Paul said "IN" Christ. Why? What similitude and resemblance will that be IN Adam? Is not what you say that all will be resurrected? The death you say Paul here speaks about is only physical, which you believe all will experience because all is created like Adam who naturally dies physically. So it has nothing to do really with anything that Adam did. What is the similitude of this with Christ on the resurrection of all or that all shall be made alive? It does not make sense, I'd have to say.

Michael, read the whole chapter.

I did. So go ahead and address the issue.
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