If all men's unbelief has been paid for then then all sin has been forgiven - there is nothing left to forgive and we would then have universalism.
Incorrect, and the Scripture teaches, as I gave you yesterday, that Christ did die for the sins of the whole world...therefore you are in DIRECT OPPOSITION to what the Spirit has recorded for us in the Scriptures. You are teaching false doctrine. The atonement applies only to those in covenant with God, it is a covenant gift, therefore only those who are participating in the covenant has the atonement applied to their lives, just as you have already been shown now a few times but take your bias over what the Scriptures teach...
I John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light
, we have [covenant] fellowship with one another
, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin
All men are not walking in the light, therefore your accusation of universalism is false.
It is not quite apparent to me why the text of John 3:16 should be an argument against limited atonement. The passage does not say Jesus died for everyone, but only that the Father gave his Son for ALL THOSE WHO WOULD BELIEVE.
Let's look at it again for the benefit of the readers...
"For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
The world here is used metaphorically for all humanity. God does not care about the physical world as much as He does about people. Christ dying upon a cross does not help the physical world any at all - therefore it is quite apparent that the world stands for humanity here. Christ died for humanity so that whosoever will who desires a relationship with God can come to Him.
It says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES in HIM shall not perish but have eternal life." Right?
Wrong...according to the Greek it says that whoever believes in Him SHOULD NOT perish but have everlasting life. Translations that say "shall not" are interpreted according to calvinistic bias and are incorrect.
In fact, this teaching comes full circle and devastates all of the other doctrines of grace.
Not so, you seem to espouse a perverted teaching on grace.
Although claiming to believe in Total Depravity, the teaching of the so-called four-point Calvinists is really that man still has the moral ability to turn to God on his own without regenerating grace (a grace purchased on the cross) effectively destroying total depravity, even though the Bible plainly teaches that no one seeks God unless first born again (1 John 5:1; John 6:37, 39, 44, 63-65; Rom 3:11. 1 Cor 2:14, John 1:13; John 3).
Negative...pure speculative nonsense. I John 5:1 does not teach anything close to what you claim. You misinterpret John 6:37 because you don't understand the Greek grammar and the translators choose not to add it. The passage states that those who continually come to Christ, meaning those who are walking with Him in relationship, will remain in Him and He will not cast them out. No where in that verse does it say that YOU can't walk away from Him. In fact, none of the passages in John 6 do you clearly understand, for none of them support your claim. See the thread "The Nature of Eternal Life" where all of those passages have been more accurately translated. None of them support your claim.
Rom. 3:11 is a quote from Psalms that is in prose, that is, a figure of speech, called exaggeration. It is meant to emphasize that hardly anyone seeks after God and it is not to be interpreted as literal like you have done. You buck solid principles of biblical interpretation here, and that leads you into error. The Scriptures support that people have in the past, and do today, seek Him all on their own. I Cor. 2:14 does address this issue, and you demonstrate the fact that it is true by your post. John 1:13 nor the entire chapter of John 3 supports any of your claims...it seems like you either do not understand the passages you posted, or you are regurgitating them from some calvinistic web site.
That is to say, natural fallen man has the ability and desire (in some cases) to believe in Christ without regenerating grace. It is teaching a "conditional" election since it depends completely on God's foreknowledge of whether or not we will have faith, even though the Bible plainly teaches that election is not conditioned on something God sees in us and that faith is a divine gift (Eph 2:5-8).
False information yet again. Neither Eph. 2:5-8 nor any other passage in the Scriptures teach that faith is a gift from God in order for you to believe, that is nonsense that calvin came up with because he was forced to from his other false ideologies concerning Scripture. No one is given a "gift" of faith unless it is the spiritual gift of supernatural faith, which is only given to those already in the body of Christ (I Cor. 12). Election IS conditional, and God gives us that condition here...
even as He chose us in Him
before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love
In plain English, that means that God chooses those who are in Christ...He does not choose people to be in Christ, He chooses those who have entered into Christ and are abiding in Him of their own free will.
So in effect WE end up choosing God with our autonomous free will in this scheme, not the other way around.
This is because that is the truth which the Scriptures teach...the calvin's nonsense ideas void of the leading of the Spirit.
Those who deny limited atonement are also surreptitiously semi-pelagian in all the other doctrines of grace as well.
Tell me...do you even know what you are saying? I really don't think you do...explain pelagianism for us.....
Salvation becomes the work of man, rather than a monergistic divine work of grace.
Another half-truth. Salvation is entered into by faith...by you choosing to believe in Christ...and entering into Christ the new covenant where salvation abides. Once in Christ, the Spirit does His work that is by grace. The doctrine you are espousing perverts grace and makes it the all-in-all of everything, and that is sin.
Some may argue that God's grace works together with man, but the problem with this is that it still leaves the final decision for salvation in the hands of man.
It is only a problem to false calvinistic teachings that are not in accordance with Scripture, for this is exactly what the Scriptures teach.
Faith, apart from Christ's work on the cross, precedes saving grace in this view, contrary to everything the Bible teaches (ROM 9:16; John 1:13).
Again...it seems like you are just regurgitating this stuff from some calvinistic web site...either that or you do not know how to interpret the Scriptures. Romans 9:16 you are taking out of context (nothing new for calvinists), and when it is correctly interpreted according to its context, it does not say what you think it means. Neither does John 1:13...again...your claim is demonstrated as false.
God's grace would take us part of the way to salvation leaving man's will to make the final decision.
Yes, that is what the Scriptures teach. Everytime you read the word "believe" in John, when it pertains to eternal life, it is in the Active voice, meaning that YOU are the one believing, God is not giving you belief. If it was in the Middle voice, meaning that the belief is coming from outside of the person, then you would have a point. The fact that the grammar places belief in the Active voice discredits your claim and demonstrates it to be false teaching.
So, according to those who claim that the atonement is unlimited (indefinite) there is no divine election in the final analysis, but only humans electing God even though we all know that it is God that chooses us (John 15:16).
Wrong again. Atonement is unlimited and the Scriptures demonstrate that...you try to pit one passage against another in a war-like fashion, and when you do that, you break perhaps the most important principle of biblical interpretation there is...God does NOT contradict Himself, ever. If there is a contradiction, it is found in your false interpretation, not in the Scriptures. John 15:16 is addressing the apostles...NOT everyone who is ever saved. You break another rule of biblical interpretation, taking a passage intended for a specific entity and then generalizing it for all humanity. You are following in the footsteps of calvin, and you are heading down the broad way, not the straight and narrow.
The biblical teaching is that God, before the foundation of the world in His eternal counsels, knew and determined to whom He would apply the benefits of the atonement? (2 Timothy 1 9, Titus 1:2; Eph 1:4,5)
Yes, this is correct...but not according to the twist that you place upon the subject. The benefits of the atonement was determined before time to be applied to those who abide in Christ...
"This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day." John 6:39 (emphasis mine)
Yes, it is God's will that Christ should not lose anyone...you read into the text that this means He will not lose anyone...and when you do that you add to the Word of God. I would be careful there, unless you want God to add to you the plagues of Revelation.
What does "that of all He has given Me I lose nothing" mean except that God, in His eternal councils had already determined who would be written in the book of life and that Jesus Christ came to earth in time to carry out their eternal redemption.
I just told you...and your interpretation above is from the carnal mind void of the leading and teaching of the Spirit.
God the Father elects certain individuals and the Holy Spirit regenerates them
Negative, that is not how the Scriptures teach salvation and eternal life. A person is regenerated when they come to faith and enter into covenant with God in Christ, and the moment they enter into Christ they receive all of the gifts God has accorded to man, through His covenant...regeneration being one of them.
Before we get to 1 John 2:2 lets familiarize ourselves with some other biblical texts on this crucial issue:
We don't have to, because I John 2:2 is crystal clear to those who are not reading the Scripture through calvinistic rose-colored glasses, having their calvinistic bias re-interpret them...
First Take a look at these passages of Scripture:
"Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation." Revelation 5:9 (emphasis mine)
my comment: did Christ redeem everybody by His blood in this passage? the entire world or a limited number? Doesn't it say that He purchased men FROM every tribe???
Are you paying attention to what you are saying, or are you just regurgitating this from somewhere else again? Just because Christ died for a universal atonement does not, by any stretch of a coherent imagination, mean that all men are saved, and that is what you are confused about.
"...and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption." Heb 9:12
my comment: was everybody's redemption eternal? through His blood He obtained eternal redemption - for whom? all men? then why aren't they all saved? If all men's redemption is eternal then we must become universalists.
Again, the same answer as above. You are not thinking for yourself...this is carnal reasoning from men in the past void of the Spirit of God. The atonement does NOT save anyone...the atonement only cleanses from sin and is the basis for God's forgiveness so that we can enter into God's presence for life. Salvation is not in the atonement, if you understood the atonement then you would understand that your argument is pointless and moot, completely in error...
Jesus said to them, "Is this not the reason you are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God?
"...who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds." Titus 2:14
My question: IN this passage did Christ redeem all men from iniquity or just some? the second half of the verse also narrows the redemption to a particular people, not all people.
You are once again reading the verse through your bias rather than letting the verse speak for itself. The passage does not say nor allude to that Christ died only for a select few, which again would make the Scripture contradict itself...it says "in order to..." in the Greek grammar, meaning that Christ died for all so that those who would come to Him He could have for His own possession.
Now we come to the famous text that our "four-point" brothers put all their weight upon as teaching an unlimited atonement:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 John 2:2
At first glance I must admit that this appears to be a pretty good text to back up their argument but upon closer examination, it falls apart.
Negative, it does not fall apart, and in going further you again violate another principle of biblical interpretation...
Rule Nine – The most obvious meaning of any passage will usually be the correct one.
If the most obvious meaning is in contradiction to other passages of Scripture, or if the wording of the passage makes little sense, then a more deeper evaluation of the passage is required.
Here you choose to dismiss the most obvious meaning and go forward to twist that meaning into something that fits your bias, not the Scriptures. The meaning is clear, it is not in contradiction to other passages, as your twist upon verses in the past have been, therefore we need go no further with this passage...but you did anyway...
The problem is that if the four-pointers read this verse the way they intend to then we must also conclude that the whole world's sins have already been atoned for (believers and unbelievers) and thus all will be saved (universalism).
You keep using the strawman argument that unlimited atonement equates to universalism, that is, that all men are saved...and your strawman has been thoroughly debunked and burned at the stake upon which it stood. Salvation is not in the atonement, and the benefits of the atonement are ONLY given to those who are in covenant relationship with God...
I John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Walking in the light is a metaphor for walking in obedience to God's commandments of the new covenant (I John 3:23-24; I John 2:10).
The fellowship addressed in the verse is the word koinonia, meaning covenant fellowship or covenant relationship.
Only those in covenant relationship with God have the application of the atonement in Christ to their lives...period. That is what the Scriptures teach.
Nothing else you have said means anything...they are all empty words void of truth.
I hope that helps you to have a desire to learn the Scriptures and study them all, along with learning how to study the Scriptures according to correct biblical principles of interpretation...for every rendering of Scripture you gave in this post violated one or more of those principles, and with every violation the passage violated become corrupt in your interpretation.