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21
Really…lol?  And the fact that the soul is separated from the body when one dies, where is the soul??

The body and the spirit or breath of God compose a living soul. When they are separated their is no living soul, the soul is gone until God reunites the body and spirit or breath of God again at the resurrection. Nothing about man is immortal apart from God. Immortality is a gift to the saved in Christ Jesus. Souls are not immortal, they cease to exist at death, when body and spirit are separated. Thus the scriptures never use the term immortal soul, but to the contrary very often speak of souls dying. You have simply been duped into believing the first lie of Satan to humanity along with the majority in this world, through the false doctrine of the immortality of the soul. God said we would die, Satan said we would not, the latter perpetuates his original lie to humanity through the false doctrine of the immortality of the soul.


Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When God united His breath, or spirit with man, man became a living soul. A living soul is composed of body and spirit.

05397 hmvn n@shamah nesh-aw-maw'

from 05395; n f; {See TWOT on 1433 @@ '1433a'}

AV-breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24

1) breath, spirit
1a) breath (of God)
1b) breath (of man)
1c) every breathing thing
1d) spirit (of man)

When one dies, their spirit goes back to God who gave it, at which point, one is no longer a living soul.  This is why humanity is not immortal, and must receive the same from God as a gift of salvation.

Eccl 12:5..….. because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets: 6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When the dust returns to the earth, and the spirit back to God who gave it, there is no longer a living soul. If the soul were immortal, then the scriptures would not speak of living, or dying souls. Of course a soul would be living if souls were immortal, and of course they would never be spoken of as dying if they were immortal either. So why do the scriptures apply both to the soul?

Ps 6:2 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; for I am weak: O LORD, heal me; for my bones are vexed. 3 My soul is also sore vexed: but thou, O LORD, how long? 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

In the above, David seeks to have himself, that is his soul delivered from death, because in the grave there is no remembrance of God, and he cannot give God thanks from the grave. How is this possible if the soul is immortal? If the soul were alive and in heaven with God surely it would be praising Him. Or if it were in hell, surely it would be cursing Him.

Ps 7:1 O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me: 2 Lest he tear my soul like a lion, rending it in pieces, while there is none to deliver. 3 O LORD my God, if I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands; 4 If I have rewarded evil unto him that was at peace with me; (yea, I have delivered him that without cause is mine enemy:) 5 Let the enemy persecute my soul, and take it; yea, let him tread down my life upon the earth, and lay mine honour in the dust. Selah.

Again what sense do the above verses make if a soul is not a living person, rather than some floating entity that lives apart from the body? Can a soul be torn to pieces? Will it end when ones life does? Yes it will.

Ps 30:2 O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. 3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

How can a soul go to the grave? If it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death it should not be spoken of as dying and going to the grave. If on the other hand, it is a living being, then it could be said that ones soul goes to the grave when they die, it is it’s end. When life ends, it ends.

Ps 33:18 Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; 19 To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine. 20 Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield. 21 For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name. 22 Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

If our souls must be delivered from death, then they are not immortal. They are like us, they are us, when we are alive. When we are raised from the dead and given everlasting life, we will again be living souls.

Ps 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me. 14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Who can destroy a soul if it is immortal? It is not. When life ends, it ends, because when one is alive, they are a living soul.

Ps 49:12 Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish. 13 This their way is their folly: yet their posterity approve their sayings. Selah. 14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling. 15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive me. Selah.

Again the soul being associated with life, being redeemed from the grave. If it were immortal, this would not be so.

Ps 56:12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death:wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Again, when God delivers the soul from death, one can walk in the light of the living. Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Ps 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them. 50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence; 51 And smote all the firstborn in Egypt; the chief of their strength in the tabernacles of Ham:

God spared not the Egyptians souls from death, but killed them by the plagues. Their souls died, that is, they died. Obviously their souls were not immortal.

Ps 86:1 Bow down thine ear, O LORD, hear me: for I am poor and needy. 2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my God, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. 3 Be merciful unto me, O Lord: for I cry unto thee daily.

Who needs their soul to be preserved if it is immortal?

Ps 89:47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.

Again, why would a soul go to the grave at death if it is immortal and goes to heaven or hell at death? It is because the body goes into the grave at death, it is a dead soul, it is not living, because the body and the breath or spirit from God have separated.

Ps 116:7 Return unto thy rest, O my soul; for the LORD hath dealt bountifully with thee. 8 For thou hast delivered my soul from death, mine eyes from tears, and my feet from falling. 9 I will walk before the LORD in the land of the living.

Because his soul was delivered from death, he will walk before the Lord in the land of the living, he is a living soul.

Ps 119:174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight. 175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me. 176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments.

Makes no sense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 38:16 O Lord, by these things men live, and in all these things is the life of my spirit: so wilt thou recover me, and make me to live. 17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. 19 The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.

Because he was delivered from death, his soul was delivered from the pit of corruption, that is, the grave. The living, they are the ones who praise God. The dead cannot, because they are not living souls. All such nonsense if the soul is immortal.

Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

A prophecy concerning Christ. How can a soul be an offering? A sacrifice must die. If the soul is immortal, then it cannot be a sacrifice. Yet Christ poured out His soul unto death for our sins. He died the death we deserved, and when He did, He was no longer a living soul.

Ezek 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Is God a liar? If a soul is immortal it cannot die. God says the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezek 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

Again, the soul is identified with the person. If the person lives, the soul lives. If the person dies, the soul dies. A soul is a living person with a body combined with the breath, or spirit from God.

Matt 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

God will destroy both body and soul in hell. The soul is not immortal.

Matt 16: 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

How can one lose their soul, if their soul is immortal? Where could it go to get away from them.

Acts 2: 27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Christ was raised before His body saw corruption. Thus His soul was not left in hell, or the grave. He once again walked in the light of the living, that is, He became a living soul. This is our salvation. Our souls will not be left in the prison house of death, but we will once again be raised and receive the breath, or spirit of God in our spiritual bodies, and then we shall ever be with the Lord.

Acts 3: 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Every soul that will not hear and accept Christ, will be destroyed.

1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

No mistake about when it is that we receive immortality. It is at the last trump, when the dead are raised incorruptible, and immortal. None of the above makes sense if the soul is immortal.

Heb 10:38-39 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The soul needs saving, it is not immortal.

James 5:19-20 19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

The soul needs to be saved from death, it is not immortal.

Rev 16: 3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

Souls can die. The souls of humans and animals can die. This is because a soul is a living being, not some form of disembodied spirit or ghost. Souls could not die if they were immortal.
22
No one ever said that eliminating guns would completely eliminate the issue but there's no denying that outlawing guns except for certain professions would greatly decrease the number of killings by gun.  Yes, murderers will still find ways to kill people but the ease with which Nikolas Cruz took out 17 classmates would not have been as possible with anything else.

As for swimming pools and cars -- those things serve a purpose.  Guns are not for pleasure, or transportation to work, but simply for killing. I would have a hard time living my life without my car, but I've lived my life without a gun with no trouble at all.  So have my father, son, husband and brothers.  Two thirds of Americans get along just fine with no guns.

Australia eliminated guns and death by gun, both suicide or homicide, dropped dramatically.  https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Guns don't kill people, but people who own guns kill more people.  States with higher gun ownership rates have more death from guns.

Why do Christians want to collect things that are meant only for killing?  We are meant to put on the full armor of God, faith, peace, righteousness and the Holy Spirit.  Instead we are putting on the armor of man.

Guns don't protect people, God protects people.

Your outlawing of guns would also stop hunters in their tracks.

OH, silly me.... that's right, they can always become bow hunters.....

Wonder how long it would take a long gun user, wanting to do some real damage, to learn and master the bow?  True.... no rapid repeating action on those.... but wpuld you, if in a crowd, want to face someone with a bow and trust it will hit someone else?

You are dead wrong on this issue.

Anyone intent on wanting to inflict harm will know exactly how to obtain the weapon(s) of their choice for their purposes.

As to Nicklas Cruz, and the ease of how he did things. If that first deputy had entered into the school with his weapon, instead of staying outside for 4 minutes the damage could have been far less. Took Cruz 6 minutes, and the idiot was "monitoring?" the situation for 4?

And this was a professional. One of the only ones you want to have a gun.

Everywhere more stringent gun control is, the worse the murders are.... Look at Chicago for example.

The key is not to arm everyone or even every teacher.  But it would be helpful to arm those in the schools that are trained in weapon use such as
ex miltary and ex cops... and those who just have had good training. And post by the doors there are weapons inside.

That would give the people like Cruz a pause.

As for me.  Now I am going to get a gun. And I will learn the proper use of it. And God help anyone that wants to harm any of mine
23
Rob I have researched why Easter is in the KJV and what the KJV only claim but it is clearly contradicted by the Gospels.  It is a simple mistranslation that should not be there.  You should at least present your evidence but my guess is you are referring to the unleavened days argument.
 
Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
24
Theology Forum / Re: Who is Jesus Christ?
« Last post by RB on Today at 07:25:17 »
Certainly the physical body, the flesh, of Jesus was conceived about two thousand years ago.  The human being is flesh and spirit.  His flesh obviously did not exist prior to His birth.  How about His spirit?  And I am not speaking about the Holy Spirit here.  I am speaking about the spirit of Jesus, that spirit that existed from all eternity; i.e., that spirit that Jesus spoke  of when on the cross:   Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last" (Luke 24:46).

I am not at all siding with Sublett here; I am responding only in the sense of the OP, Who Is Jesus?
In the beginning was God who is a Spirit~Jesus who is the Everlasting Father in his Divine nature was THAT Spirit since he and God are ONE as far as their Divine nature goes. The Godhead is presented to us as three as far their respective work in the redemption of the salvation of the elect~yet the LORD our God is ONE LORD GOD. The Godhead~ Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is the I'AM THAT I'AM. Jesus Christ in his human body is the express image of the Godhead, and the God that we all SHALL SEE~according to Matthew 5:8. God the Spirit has no man ever seen or will see, including angels. He was seen of angels for the first time in the person of the Son of God according to 1st Timothy 3:15,16.
Quote
I am speaking about the spirit of Jesus, that spirit that existed from all eternity
Jesus' human spirit only existed from conception, and THAT spirit he committed to his Father at death. Yet, as far as the Godhead goes the Spirit of God in the OT and NT was equally the Spirit of Christ since he was God in his Divine nature. Jesus was a complex person~ 100% human and 100% God.
25
No one ever said that eliminating guns would completely eliminate the issue but there's no denying that outlawing guns except for certain professions would greatly decrease the number of killings by gun.  Yes, murderers will still find ways to kill people but the ease with which Nikolas Cruz took out 17 classmates would not have been as possible with anything else.
Timothy McVeigh killed 168 and wounded 640 more with fertilizer and diesel fuel.

It is interesting that when Australia "got rid of gun", the violent crimes increased.  The reason seems obvious.  People were considerably less able to protect themselves.  Perpetrators of violent crimes have much less to fear when the population is unarmed.

I think if you look at the statistics, while "gun violence" in the US is greater than in some European countries, very often the violent crime in those other countries is greater than in the US.

And also if you eliminate the consideration of critical areas within places like Chicago, Maryland, New York City, Detroit, LA and some other major centers of crime, you will find that "gun violence" on a per capita basis is lower than many countries which tout strict gun control.  So once again, the problem is not guns, the problem is people, namely bad people.

When I grew up none of this stuff was happening and there were guns all over the place.  I had guns when I was in grade school. There were more guns per capita then than now.  So what has changed?  I would argue that what has changed is the influence of the very same people who now want to get rid of guns.  They first got rid of basic morality, ethics and family values; and a whole lot more.  Now they want to get rid of guns.

We need to get rid of the political philosophy that has given us the current situation  --  that is, Leftist philosophy.
26
Catholic Forum / Re: A Question For "Catholics"!
« Last post by Ginger Rella on Today at 07:05:22 »
As usual no answer to my question.



Isaias does not answer questions.
27
Maybe unicorn was the right word, they did exist.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/29/living/real-unicorn-remains/index.html
28
Christian Women Forum / Re: Beauty Taken Away
« Last post by Ginger Rella on Today at 06:56:55 »
As 4WD asked... was the work done properly.

A second opinion never hurts.

Also, what work did you have doe that makes you feel this about yourself?

As the daughter od a dentist, I cannot imagine such, other then just extractions, leaving gaps in your smile.

If that is the case there are remedies for that.

Please tell us more
29
it makes me really wonder about the intelligence factor of those that believe irradiating gun ownership laws will eliminate this issue. I'm sure Stephen Paddock could have ordered from illegal sources a small militia of weaponry and ammo prior to committing the act, and that applies to all of these perpetrators of mass killings. When traditional firearms are unavailable by any means, a truck will do the trick nicely.

No one ever said that eliminating guns would completely eliminate the issue but there's no denying that outlawing guns except for certain professions would greatly decrease the number of killings by gun.  Yes, murderers will still find ways to kill people but the ease with which Nikolas Cruz took out 17 classmates would not have been as possible with anything else.

As for swimming pools and cars -- those things serve a purpose.  Guns are not for pleasure, or transportation to work, but simply for killing. I would have a hard time living my life without my car, but I've lived my life without a gun with no trouble at all.  So have my father, son, husband and brothers.  Two thirds of Americans get along just fine with no guns.

Australia eliminated guns and death by gun, both suicide or homicide, dropped dramatically.  https://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

Guns don't kill people, but people who own guns kill more people.  States with higher gun ownership rates have more death from guns.

Why do Christians want to collect things that are meant only for killing?  We are meant to put on the full armor of God, faith, peace, righteousness and the Holy Spirit.  Instead we are putting on the armor of man.

Guns don't protect people, God protects people.


30
Christian Women Forum / Re: Beauty Taken Away
« Last post by 4WD on Today at 06:39:17 »
My first question is, "Was the dental work poorly done or incomplete?"  If not, why do you think the change was not good.  If so, go see another dentist.
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