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Theology Forum / Re: true christianity vs. other religions.
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 05:38:48 PM »
Curtis regurgitated...

The problem you are having in accepting truth is in the fact you trust in the arm of the flesh to get your understanding.

That is the same old nonsense that every person holding to Reformed nonsense theology falls back onto. the problem with your attempt is that it is based upon lack of education...and lack of the Spirit. Biblical Hermeneutics is a means of ensuring that what the Spirit has lead someone to believe is in fact what the writings of the Scriptures are teaching...and it works marvelously because the principles therein help to demonstrate where people who hold to false teachings go haywire...

My response in red...it is hard to discern what you are saying because you are not utilizing the forum format very well...with that said...

Hermeneutics, is a method that takes the place of the Holy Spirit. Since man can not figure out what the Word of God is saying so they revert to man made methods to try and make sense of what only the anointing can teach.

Negative, you don't know what you are talking about, but nice try. Hermeneutics does NOT replace the Spirit, it is a tool for us to be able to confirm what the Spirit is telling us, and a tool to demonstrate the fallacies of folks who are teaching false doctrine...such as you are doing.

Hermeneutics initially applied to the interpretation, or exegesis, of scripture. It emerged as a theory of human understanding beginning in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries through the work of Friedrich Schleiermacher and Wilhelm Dilthey. Hermeneutics began early on by Aristotle and Plato. It's name is derived by a Greek god called "Hermes" which means "Messenger of the gods I do not put my trust in any other God but one, and only in his ways of teaching scripture. Anyone who uses this method is not wise.

So you looked up what you never heard of before...I am almost impressed...but your fleshly mental attitude doesn't help very much.

I NEVER trust in any man made designed philosophy about how to understand scripture. Ever hear of the "anointing"? Hermeneutics, has nothing to do with the Spirit of God or the anointing that teaches us all things.

Like I just said, hermeneutics ensures that what you think the Spirit is telling you is really what the Spirit means in the Scriptures. If you are only thinking that you have the Spirit of God in order to receive the correct intended meaning of the Scriptures, and we apply hermeneutics to your feeble interpretation and find that it is not what the Spirit's intended meaning in the Scriptures are, then we demonstrate that the spirit you are receiving from is NOT the Spirit of God. That is what John tells us to do in testing the spirits of people...whether they are getting their interpretations from Scripture from the Spirit of truth, or the spirit of error...and yours is not coming from the Spirit of truth.

No where in scripture will you find God using "hermeneutics" to teach anyone. It is only a man made formula that has no spiritual value. This is God's method anything else is not worth knowing.

that is almost laughable...God does not need to teach anyone with hermeneutics who has the Spirit indwelling them. Again, you don't know what you are talking about and fighting here because your pet bias is being threatened. If you don't have the Spirit of God in order to teach you the intended meaning of the Scriptures, and you have demonstrated in your posts that you do not, then hermeneutics is a way for me to show you the failings of what you cling to as truth, which is not. In that they have value...you just don't like that because you don't like your bias being kicked at.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him..

Yes, and you take this passage out of context again, like everyone who tries to use it to say that what you think you know is truth. In context, John told his audience that those who abide in God have the anointing (the Spirit of God), and those do not need that anyone should teach them...and this is true. The problem is when someone comes around who only thinks he has God's Spirit, teaches nonsense false doctrines to others, and claims to have the Spirit guiding his interpretation when he does not. According to John, such a person is deceived...according to what you have written and demonstrated, you are not receiving from the Spirit of God.

Obviously, you do not have faith in God to provide his only method in teaching his Church by his Spirit, and have need of other man made methods which Paul warned the Church about.

Nice try but you fail again. I have complete faith in God to teach those by His Spirit who have His Spirit...but those who do not have His Spirit because they are not walking in obedience to Him in covenant relationship, but are therefore only THINKING they have His Spirit and believing what comes into their secular minds, need to have help. And that is what I have been trying to do...help you...but you see it as attacking and go on the defensive.  If you do not approach the Scriptures with the attitude that you might be wrong, and willing to lay down whatever you have been taught in the past that is false, then you will NEVER come to the knowledge of the truth.

I already gave you the Scriptures that tell you who has and who does not have the indwelling Spirit of God, and if you throw them over your shoulder instead of taking them and applying them to your life, then you will never have the Spirit in order to guide you and teach you what He is saying. The choice is yours...remain in false doctrine that will take you to the lake of fire, or begin a heart search for God's truth.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Again you demonstrate that you misinterpret the Scriptures. Paul here is addressing Judaism, and here you are trying to apply it to things today, such as education...you are teetering upon disaster. The Spirit is not the one who causes you to do anything, He only gives you the necessary strength to do what you want to do for God, He does NOT cause you to do it. That is more fleshly false teaching of Reformed theology.

You error, Paul is not addressing anything as the Word of God was written by the Holy Spirit not man.

See, you do it again here. The Spirit is writing the Word of God through Paul's hand...that is why it is called "inspiration"...because the Spirit did NOT pick up a pen and paper and write it Himself, now did He?  Come on, think like a mature adult and apply your brain here!!!

The Holy Spirit is warning his Church from such individuals who would pervert his Word from what it really says. Since the Holy Spirit is it's author, only he can tell us what he was thinking when he wrote it.

Not true most of the time. That is false Reformed teaching again. When we can read and understand the original language that the apostles wrote the Scriptures in, along with its grammar and historical background...etc...then most of the time we can tell EXACTLY what the Spirit means in the Scriptures. If it was as you claim, no one would be following God today because no one had the Spirit of God BEFORE they were saved. NO ONE.

In my post I am speaking from the perspective of one who walks in God's presence, who has fellowship with God because I walk in obedience to His commandments of the New Covenant, which you have denied. Therefore, I walk with Christ and in His Spirit who guides and verifies what I have come to believe because I abide in the covenant where the gift of the Spirit of God is given. When you ceased to abide in Christ, you ceased to have the indwelling Spirit of God in order to guide you into all Scriptural truth, that is what the Scriptures clearly and plainly teach...and I listen, rather than cling to the false doctrines that I, like you, was once taught.

I hate to tell you, but I don't believe you. The way, and method you use to speak on this forum is not in how the Wisdom that is from above speaks, and it is evident to all here.

Actually, what is evident to all here is that you can't handle having your bias kicked at, and that by sound interpretational principles. Jesus raised His voice and made a whip of chords when the situation called for it, He didn't speak to everyone in love because some people don't respond to love. I began in love, and your attitude in stiff-necked arrogant pride results in harshness. I don't want it that way...so I will try again.

You, on the other hand, need to stop rebutting out of pride and arrogance that you know it all. I certainly don't know it all, but I know my field of study, and brother you are smack dab in the middle of it. Therefore I think that I know a little more about this than you do, and a wise person would listen to someone who is more educated than himself. Yes, I used the word educated...just like Paul did about himself. Education is NOT antithetical to God's Word, it is an asset.

Let's see what you come back with...shall we start over?

Theology Forum / Re: The strength of sin?
« Last post by TruthScientist on Today at 05:26:49 PM »
we have to remember that sin is not a tangible thing...  a ton of heroin can cause man no harm if it is respected for what it is and can be used for good (morphine)...

it is a decision to do something in opposition to God's will and law or to not do something in concert with it...

it is a decision...  the imagination presents it and we have to resist it...
Preterist Forum / Re: Is the apostle John in heaven?
« Last post by Rev20 on Today at 05:24:22 PM »
John 21:22; " Jesus answered, “If I want him [the Apostle John] to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?” 

The arrogant futurist in a preterist forum is like a man in a crowd who boasts that he can see better than everyone else--and yet refuses to open his eyes.

LOL!  Very good.

Theology Forum / Re: true christianity vs. other religions.
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 05:17:38 PM »
Paul tells them "to work out their own salvation....." . In other words he was telling them that the same God he had inside him, they also had, and they had the same ability to figure their problems out on their own.

So, Philippians 2:12 is Paul telling them they do not need to ask for help with their spiritual problems?

By implication, we don't need to help each other because the Spirit of God lives in each of us, so nobody should need help. Therefore, churches don't need elders for guidance with problems, other passages that tell us to help one another are voided, and basically, we can go it alone when we are having problems.

Read the passage again. Philippians 2:12-16.
So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and questionings: that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom ye are seen as lights in the world, holding forth the word of life; that I may have whereof to glory in the day of Christ, that I did not run in vain neither labor in vain.

Paul is talking about their submission in obedience to God. They are to submit that He may work His will in their lives. Paul goes on to talk about their attitude as those who are children of God that they may stand out as lights in the world. Note that this immediately follows Paul's description of Jesus' willing submissive obedience, even unto death. Jesus is the example they are to follow to allow God's will to be accomplished through them. This whole discussion about obedience started with Paul saying, in verses 3-5, "doing nothing through faction or through vainglory, but in lowliness of mind each counting other better than himself; not looking each of you to his own things, but each of you also to the things of others. Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:"

The needs of others, which I have no doubt included temporal needs as well as spiritual, was why Paul was writing these things to them.

There comes a time when we are suppose to "grow up", and stop asking the same old questions we should have  already learned a long time ago. Did not Paul tell this to those in the Book of Hebrews?

Heb 5:11  Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Who exactly is suppose to be "working" here? Who has the answers to all questions we might have?

So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to work, for his good pleasure.(Phil 2:13)

Like I already said, Paul told them it was God who was both causing them to "will", and that was "working" through them for his good pleasure.

Yes, but your problem here again is that you are not taking into consideration the entire context. God does not cause everyone everywhere to do what they are doing, that is Determinism and it comes from eastern mysticism, NOT the Scriptures.

Covenantally speaking, as Paul is doing here, intends the idea that God works in the lives of His children, which has NOTHING to do with eternal life because they already have it, and no where does Paul teach that God chooses who will have eternal life and who will not have it.  In short, your passages do not address what you are trying to make them out to...when we apply Biblical Hermeneutics to your passages, they all fall dreadfully short of your interpretations...which is to be expected because what you cling to is NOT taught in the Scriptures.

Theology Forum / Re: The strength of sin?
« Last post by Curtis on Today at 05:16:55 PM »
the law says that the soul that sinneth shall die... death is the strength of sin... the law requires death for sins wages

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

You are a little confused, death is the wages of sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Red said...

As far as this being a point made as to His causing us to "choose" salvation, it goes beyond anything imaginable in the teachings of the bible...  we must choose or else we have a God that is a "respecter of persons" in connection with His Plan of the Ages...

TS you need to reconsider your words.  Does it truly "goes beyond anything imaginable in the teachings of the bible"?  Are we reading out of the same scriptures?  It only goes against what so many have been taught in the last one hundred and fifty plus years~up until then, this truth was well know, even among those outside of Christ, understood these truths, much better than many church going people in the twenty first century!

Red you don't know Christian history very well apparently. The false doctrine which you espouse here was not taught by the Apostles or Christ or anyone in the book of Acts, as far as I can tell it did not come about in mainstream Christian circles until the Reformation, and is strictly Reformed teaching. Thank God for those who got away from Reformed teaching and kept Christianity alive.

we must choose or else we have a God that is a "respecter of persons" in connection with His Plan of the Ages

We must put a biblical sense upon those words when we read such scriptures as Romans 2:11~ or else, we will have a bible that will contradict itself many times over.

You mean the way your doctrines contradict Scripture? You are an expert in that field.

But this does not mean that God does not elect some to eternal life and not others, for he does indeed.  No man chooses God but God chooses them.  John 15:16

See, this is the same nonsense I was just talking to Tonka Tim about...you take a passage like John 15:16 which does NOT address eternal life and then twist it around in application to mean that God does pick and choose who gets eternal life and who gets the shaft. Sorry, Red, but that is false doctrine and no amount of back-peddling on your part will save you. Here is what John 15:16 clearly states...

John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

No where in the passage does Jesus allude to your false point that God chooses who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. His point was that He chose the disciples for ONE purpose, to be His disciples...period, end of meaning.

There is not ONE passage so far that you or your kind have put up in support of calvinistic brand of predestination that has survived complete analysis of the Scriptural facts.

I wouldn't wish the emotional toil that comes with a sexual attack on anyone. The terror and fear of your life, the self blaming (maybe I did something to provoke this), and the years of isolationism. Perhaps you are just confused about your fantasy of a dominant sexual partner and the horrible reality of a real sexual attack. I was attacked in my twenties. I was able to scare him off by screaming and kicking before he actually penetrated me, but I spent years blaming myself, and avoiding every man I had to walk past by myself. If you search your heart, you'll find the answer to your own question I think. My prayers go out to you that you may find peace.

TruthScientist,  Take a look at these passages from Romans 9

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy

 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Yes, but they do not mean what you are trying to twist them into meaning.

Verse 11 addresses God's foreordained plan regarding Jacob as part of the line of Christ, it has NOTHING to do with preordaining men to eternal life.

Verse 14-15 addresses God's choice to have mercy and compassion upon some and not others, again it has NOTHING to do with predetermining one to heaven and one to hell.

Verse 16-18 is the same, they address earthly things that God does, like hardening Pharaoh's heart in order to accomplish His plans upon this earth, and those things are not contested. What is contested is that people in your group take these truths and apply them to eternal life, and that is NO WHERE found in scripture.

God does preordain activities in human history, but no where in Scripture do we find that God preordains who will go to heaven and who will go to eternity without God, that is each man's decision.


This foreordained is not a word that has it's emphasis in the power of God to know a thing before it is conceived in any creatures mind.  He simply is mentioning His All Knowing ability...  How else could He be God if there was anything unknown to Him... 

As far as this being a point made as to His causing us to "choose" salvation, it goes beyond anything imaginable in the teachings of the bible...  we must choose or else we have a God that is a "respecter of persons" in connection with His Plan of the Ages...

That is asinine...

 ::thumbup:: ::thumbup:: ::thumbup:: ::thumbup:: ::thumbup::
His sacrifice was foreplanned and those saved by it were foreseen.

Biblically, they were foreordained, or predestinated~ Acts 13:48; Ephesians 1:5  .     

You are messing with the Scriptures again Red, there are no passages that teach people are foreordained or predestined to eternal life. Your slant on Acts 13:48 has already been dealt with and yet you still refuse to see it according to the Scriptures, so lets move on to your other slant on Eph. 1:5...

Ephesians 1:5
he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

In keeping with the rest of Scripture on these points, Paul is not saying that people are predestined to be adopted just to be predestined to be adopted, he is saying that those in Christ have been predestined to be adopted...just the same as you cannot give blood unless you go down to the blood station.

It is just the same thing here...

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

No one is predestined to eternal life, God predestined before the creation of the world that those who come to abide in Christ would be conformed to His image...He did NOT predestine before time who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. That is false Reformed nonsense that is not supported by the Scriptures.

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