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31
Theology Forum / Re: So why do you think some churches are...
« Last post by skeeter on Yesterday at 07:30:45 PM »
notreligus,
                  I agree with you that "dipped and done" is bad. I believe people should be taught the Biblical understanding of their salvation before they're baptized into Christ. We do that.

This is also one of my complaints against the sinner's prayer altar call, there's no teaching done beforehand.
yes, there usually is teaching prior to the altar call.

32
Introductions / Re: intro:-):-)
« Last post by geronimo on Yesterday at 07:09:22 PM »
Hello hudagph and welome to Grace Centered forums. Hope your time here is fruitful as we all learn from one another.
 Blessings to you.
 geronimo :-)
33
Theology Forum / Re: So why do you think some churches are...
« Last post by e.r.m. on Yesterday at 06:54:29 PM »
notreligus,
                  I agree with you that "dipped and done" is bad. I believe people should be taught the Biblical understanding of their salvation before they're baptized into Christ. We do that. This is also one of my complaints against the sinner's prayer altar call, there's no teaching done beforehand.
34
Theology Forum / Re: Not T.U.L.I.P., Not Arminius
« Last post by e.r.m. on Yesterday at 06:28:35 PM »
Sorry, first of all, welcome to the forum.

It's more the commentaries and loose approach to scriptures that propose OSAS.
But my comment was focused against the belief system of the accepting Christ method of getting saved. Continue on with your thread. It's just that this method is not the scripturally established way of getting saved. For the purpose of this thread, it's better to just stay neutral, not mentioning the method, but just referring to a saved person, or "someone who is saved is...".
35
Apologetics Forum / Re: First Doctrines First
« Last post by Netchaplain on Yesterday at 06:24:04 PM »
Inasmuch as I’m  a ‘layman’ (that is, a member of the ‘laity’, a term comprising half of the word “Nicolaitane”, which is found in Revelation chapter 2, verses 6 and 15, and of which Jesus says, “I hate it”),

And inasmuch as “Nicao” or “Nikos” means conqueror of, or victorious over the people…and ‘laos’ means the common people, we have therefore Nicolaitanes being those who have conquered the common people.
 
And so, in order to throw the whole abominable shebang into the face of God, the catholics gave us the ‘clergy/laity’ system (and which the illegitimate children of the catholic church, the denominations, adopted most happily), whereby there are those especially called of God, and employed by God and paid by God, and who are ‘over the common people’ who are taxed by God to pay the victors over the common people, are known as the ‘clergy, while…the common people, the unworthy saints (or disciples as you will) are then called the “Laity” taken directly from “Laos”. Giving to us the horrid blessing of the ‘clergy/laity’ system of today.

All we need do now, is to identify just one example of a ‘singular’ pastor (clergy as it were), as opposed to a plurality of eldership (among a priesthood consisting of all believers) such as we see in the New Testament, and all will be well with Nicolaitanism as the way it must be done today.

Oh wait, but there is indeed one example of such.

And isn’t it interesting that he makes his appearance in the very latter part of the first century, when the Word began to be vilified and altered by commentators? We find this fellow, this “pastors’ saint”, this outstanding Christian in 3 John, where of him it is said,

“I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.” 3 John 9-11. Obviously, Diotrephes was an outstanding member of the clergy, an exemplary pastor, hence his beatification herein.

I shall humbly wear hereafter the name of ‘layman’…and by your leave, will be pleased to call you “Diotrephesians”, meaning those who represent Nicolaitanism at its very best.

After all, Jesus is with you there“…And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.” Luke 16:15.

So in parting, I spent some time today writing a poem. I dedicate it to Netchaplain and this thread with respect and admiration…and all the while wishing that I myself might know the things of God so well.

So then, with your kind permission, I give you…

“The Anti-Commentators’ Creed”

“I’d so much rather heed the incorruptible Word of God,
Than to foolishly stumble into hallowed ground,
Over which others in error have trod.

For salvation isn’t what is written
In the church membership scrolls…
But is that which is written in our hearts,
Hearts which only we can totally control.

For if we cannot be lost, once saved from hell,
Why not then do away with ourselves,
So we can miss the pain of the evil world
we know so evilly well?

Remember Lot’s wife, do not draw back unto perdition,
For the dog is returned to his vomit, and the sow to her wallow.
And yet the smart among us say, “It’s an untenable position”
A position some of us simply will not be found to swallow.

Fall off the wagon, fall from grace,
It’s okay so long as our minds are fine,
And God’s doesn’t decide to turn us over to face, 
The dead curse of a reprobate mind.

Drunks, sinners and lately lost,
Never knowing the final tally, the utmost cost,
Of having known God, but in sin tossed from His hand,
So that even they can happily ever after, live in God’s promised land.”

On this one, I’ll desist, for in not knowing commentators, but knowing God’s Word alone, I’m not qualified, and will have to bid you good evening.

Later!
Julabee Jones
Not sure I understand your reply, but thanks for your heart-felt comments.
36
Theology Forum / Re: Not T.U.L.I.P., Not Arminius
« Last post by Barnabas93 on Yesterday at 06:17:58 PM »
1 Cor 11:31,32  God does not condemn us with the world.

1 Cor 3 The Christian may suffer loss, but not his foundation in Christ.

There are many scriptures that support eternal security. Other scriptures, like Heb 6, have been explained by, like, Joni Eareckson Tada, in a very gentle and straight forward way.

I think many do not believe in God's unconditional love. In Hebrews chps 7 and 9, there is no more sacrifice for sins; otherwise Christ would have had to die many times from the beginning of the world. Christ paid for all of your sins, past, present, and future. God will chasten us, but not condemn us for our sins.

37
Apologetics Forum / Re: First Doctrines First
« Last post by Julabee Jones on Yesterday at 06:15:29 PM »
Inasmuch as I’m  a ‘layman’ (that is, a member of the ‘laity’, a term comprising half of the word “Nicolaitane”, which is found in Revelation chapter 2, verses 6 and 15, and of which Jesus says, “I hate it”),

And inasmuch as “Nicao” or “Nikos” means conqueror of, or victorious over the people…and ‘laos’ means the common people, we have therefore Nicolaitanes being those who have conquered the common people.
 
And so, in order to throw the whole abominable shebang into the face of God, the catholics gave us the ‘clergy/laity’ system (and which the illegitimate children of the catholic church, the denominations, adopted most happily), whereby there are those especially called of God, and employed by God and paid by God, and who are ‘over the common people’ who are taxed by God to pay the victors over the common people, are known as the ‘clergy, while…the common people, the unworthy saints (or disciples as you will) are then called the “Laity” taken directly from “Laos”. Giving to us the horrid blessing of the ‘clergy/laity’ system of today.

All we need do now, is to identify just one example of a ‘singular’ pastor (clergy as it were), as opposed to a plurality of eldership (among a priesthood consisting of all believers) such as we see in the New Testament, and all will be well with Nicolaitanism as the way it must be done today.

Oh wait, but there is indeed one example of such.

And isn’t it interesting that he makes his appearance in the very latter part of the first century, when the Word began to be vilified and altered by commentators? We find this fellow, this “pastors’ saint”, this outstanding Christian in 3 John, where of him it is said,

“I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.” 3 John 9-11. Obviously, Diotrephes was an outstanding member of the clergy, an exemplary pastor, hence his beatification herein.

I shall humbly wear hereafter the name of ‘layman’…and by your leave, will be pleased to call you “Diotrephesians”, meaning those who represent Nicolaitanism at its very best.

After all, Jesus is with you there“…And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.” Luke 16:15.

So in parting, I spent some time today writing a poem. I dedicate it to Netchaplain and this thread with respect and admiration…and all the while wishing that I myself might know the things of God so well.

So then, with your kind permission, I give you…

“The Anti-Commentators’ Creed”

“I’d so much rather heed the incorruptible Word of God,
Than to foolishly stumble into hallowed ground,
Over which others in error have trod.

For salvation isn’t what is written
In the church membership scrolls…
But is that which is written in our hearts,
Hearts which only we can totally control.

For if we cannot be lost, once saved from hell,
Why not then do away with ourselves,
So we can miss the pain of the evil world
we know so evilly well?

Remember Lot’s wife, do not draw back unto perdition,
For the dog is returned to his vomit, and the sow to her wallow.
And yet the smart among us say, “It’s an untenable position”
A position some of us simply will not be found to swallow.

Fall off the wagon, fall from grace,
It’s okay so long as our minds are fine,
And God’s doesn’t decide to turn us over to face, 
The dead curse of a reprobate mind.

Drunks, sinners and lately lost,
Never knowing the final tally, the utmost cost,
Of having known God, but in sin tossed from His hand,
So that even they can happily ever after, live in God’s promised land.”

On this one, I’ll desist, for in not knowing commentators, but knowing God’s Word alone, I’m not qualified, and will have to bid you good evening.

Later!
Julabee Jones


38
Theology Forum / Re: Not T.U.L.I.P., Not Arminius
« Last post by e.r.m. on Yesterday at 06:07:47 PM »
There is no Biblical verse or pattern for once a person has accepted Christ at a moment in time, he is saved forever.
39
Theology Forum / Re: So why do you think some churches are...
« Last post by e.r.m. on Yesterday at 05:44:39 PM »
Charlie24,

That's why I said: It's all about the heart.

You're still wrong on this.

The person who wrote Romans 10:10 believed in His heart and confessed with his mouth
Acts 22:10 “ 'What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. “ 'Get up,' the Lord said, 'and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.'

and then was baptized for the forgiveness of his sins

Acts 22:16 And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.'

Paul never said salvation is ONLY a matter of the heart and his own example completely debunks that idea. Nothing about Paul says salvation is only a matter of the heart. If Paul had actually said what you said that salvation is ONLY in the heart, then we'd have something to talk about. So far, you haven't come to the table with anything.
40
Apologetics Forum / Re: First Doctrines First
« Last post by Netchaplain on Yesterday at 05:33:22 PM »
The sole purpose of "abiding" in any vine or tree is for the purpose of bearing fruit. If that branch or vine never produces any fruit it is cut off and cast in the fire. The fruit that is first produced is the "new "birth". No fruit no salvation. We born again by the incorruptible "seed" of the word of God"
Once that vine or branch produces its fruit it can NERVER produce bad fruit as Jesus tells us.
"a good tree can not produce bad fruit, neither can a bad tree produce good fruit."
Amen Curt.  I also like Gill's comment here:

"Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit,...."  There are two sorts of branches in Christ the vine; the one sort are such who have only an historical faith in him, believe but for a time, and are removed; they are such who only profess to believe in him, as Simon Magus did; are in him by profession only; they submit to outward ordinances, become church members, and so are reckoned to be in Christ, being in a church state, as the churches of Judea and Thessalonica, and others, are said, in general, to he in Christ.

"Though it is not to be thought that every individual person in these churches were truly and savingly in him. These branches are unfruitful ones; what fruit they seemed to have, withers away, and proves not to be genuine fruit; what fruit they bring forth is to themselves, and not to the glory of God, being none of the fruits of his Spirit and grace: and such branches the husbandman

"Taketh away"; removes them from that sort of being which they had in Christ. By some means or another he discovers them to the saints to be what they are; sometimes he suffers persecution to arise because of the word, and these men are quickly offended, and depart of their own accord; or they fall into erroneous principles, and set up for themselves, and separate from the churches of Christ; or they become guilty of scandalous enormities, and so are removed from their fellowship by excommunication; or if neither of these should be the case, but these tares should grow together with the wheat till the harvest, the angels will be sent forth, who will gather out of the kingdom of God all that offend and do iniquity, and cast them into a furnace of fire, as branches withered, and fit to be burnt."
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