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31
John Zain,

Before engaging in discussion, would you answer one question for me?  Do you believe that Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice are sufficient for our salvation?

Bond

I believe that you just identified the "great divide" at this discussion board.

There seems to be a group here who are not confident in their salvation and just have a hope of salvation, and there is another group that believes that Christ's work was sufficient and that God Almighty loves His children and will not let His children be so easily snatched away. 

Faith is a gift from God and He did not include doubt along with that.  Doubt is that seed planted by the devil. 


 I so agree with this. We can have that complete assurance, and don't need to just 'hope' that we 'may' make it if we are good enough and try hard enough. That's what the muslims do. That's what the Jews do.
I cant begin to understand how horrible that must feel, and it makes you understand how easy it is to get that 'holier than thou' attitude, and that attitude of condemning others who know they are saved by Grace, through the sacrifice of Jesus alone.
32
More on Hobie the Troll

In the thread “is-the-roman-catholic-church-christian-or-pagan” Hobie gave a long list of items he said showed the Catholic Church was pagan (post #138)

In post #147 I challenged him to go  through the list with me one by one. I said:
Quote from:
Hobie,

I have a question for you because in my experience people who post lists of this kind are simply trolls who have no interest in actually discussing the claims they make. They like dropping stink bombs and then runnning off.

So are you

a) A troll who just wants to drop a stink bomb and then run off

or

b) Serious and would like to discuss these issues.

If the latter I am prepared to go though your list item by item with you.

If you are not prepared to seriously discuss each item then I hope the mods will recognise you as a Troll, delete your list and ban you. .

Hobie didn’t take up the challenge and unfortunately the mods didn't ban him.

I repeated the challenge again in post #163
Quote
And Hobie hasn't taken up my challenge to discuss his list so he has demonstrated he is just a Troll.

However he continued to post - #166, #170, #171, #172.

The last two were more copy and paste diatribes of 1,533 words thus demonstrating he had no intention of discussing the accusations he made - and he didn't.



BTW I have reported my post above (#9) to the Mods because I want something done about Hobie's posting. If Catholics acted like this against Protestants it would not be tolerated.

Hey Winsome,

Although understandable, there is no need to play the victim card here.
In another thread the Protestant way of interpretation of truth is being called un-Christian and Satanic by a fellow Catholic, and that post has yet to be rectified.
We are all grown ups here and sometimes our emotions take over.
Taking offence often is as damaging as giving offence.

You don't have to respond to Hobie if you don't wish to...but by all means feel free to express your thoughts and defuse his claims if you can.
I should however not take offence so easy, its just one of these things that happens when you engage in discussions online.
I am sure you do like the challenge else you wouldn't be here.
33
Theology Forum / Re: Salvation by works?
« Last post by Glorious on Today at 11:35:18 AM »
James 3:16:
16  For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.
17  But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18  And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Humility is a line item thing of the love of God. But envying and strife brings about confusion and every evil work.

What we see often in these forums is strife based on denominational or private (often wrong) interpretation of scriptures. Strife brings about confusion and every evil work.

Directly or indirectly, do your posts cause strife in the Forums? Do your responses cause strife? If it does, please change!

Without negotiation, evil works are meant to be stopped and destroyed... not to be indulged in humility.

The Lord Jesus Christ comes to destroy every evil work.


34
Theology Forum / Re: A TRUE KNOWLEDGE OF 'FALLEN MAN' AND THE SAINT!
« Last post by Thaddaeus on Today at 11:28:51 AM »
Every time we preach about the Sovereignty of God and the total depravity of man, and deny that man has a free-will to come to God, why do men, even ‘Christian’ men quibble and fight against it?

Because what you preach about the Sovereignty of God is an absolute travesty against God Himself and the very concept of total depravity of man that you preach is a travesty nearly as vast.
so harsh on a fellow sola scirpturist.  Why would whatever interpretation he has be any different than yours when all are based on scripture and all are enlightened by the Holy Spirit?
35


Posted by: Clarity
« on: May 16, 2013, 06:13:28 AM
It involves:

Clarity you said:Grace (Eph 2:8,9)
Hope (Rom 8:24)
Belief (Mar 16:15)
Baptism (1Pe 3:21).
A true and powerful Gospel message and its memory (1 Co 15:1,2).
The cleansing by the Blood of Christ by faith (1 Jo 1:7).
Faith (Rom 5:1).
Works (Jam 2:24).
Ourselves (Act 2:40).
Endurance (Mat 10:22).

Don't you have about fifteen more things you would like to add to this ridiculous list for one to do in order to be finally saved?

I have another post coming in the morning on this verse. 

RB



Well, that "ridiculous list" is compatible to what scriptures states. But then, it is a habit for many to focus on just one essential.

It is a ridiculous list.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it’s by God’s grace that you have been saved. You receive it through faith. It was not our plan or our effort. It is God’s gift, pure and simple. You didn’t earn it, not one of us did, so don’t go around bragging that you must have done something amazing.

Lively
Grace is mentioned in the list - is this ridiculous also?
You need to explain what about Gods Word is ridiculous.
Clarity

Lists are ridiculous, the result of relying on the grey matter, rather than the truth of God's word.

Grace does not stand alone. There is a reason why more essentials are mentioned.

God's grace is sufficient for me. He says, “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.”

Mercy and love can be mentioned as well.

But then I do not single out any essential from the rest.

36
Theology Forum / Re: Will Doctrinal Defects Keep Us Out Of Heaven?
« Last post by Reformer on Today at 11:11:20 AM »
It would be repugnant in the eyes of the Apostle Paul to accept his brothers in error and not seek to enlighten their way.  Falsehood can never be "accepted" and we are without excuse having been entrusted the Holy Scriptures for truth and comfort.

Paul in Galatians 2 speaks of such who come in unawares, many of whom unknowingly bring their brethren into fleshly bondage.
 
Gal 2:4  Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— Gal 2:5  to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. Gal 2:6  And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. (or the true Gospel)

Reformer, you message is not in harmony with the Apostle Paul both here in Gal 2 and in Rom 16.

I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. (Rom 16:17)

I could take you to Titus and other passages which again provide you the example of contending earnestly the faith, which was once delivered to you by the Apostles to the Saints.

Rather than perceiving to be a teacher, we should become hearers of the Word, rather than presiding over it giving determinations which are contrary to the Will of God?

one Lord, one faith, one baptism, (Eph 4:5)  - if you are not in possession of these...what do you have?

Yes, even I am comforted when the children of God walk in truth.

Clarity

   Clarity, as my column will verify, I addressed only those believers who are honestly and sincerely recipients of defective doctrines. Note the following from my feature, especially the statements set in bold face.
______

   I will recognize and embrace any brother who has experienced the new birth and is honestly striving to serve his Lord as he understands His will—yes, in spite of his doctrinal defects. He may be aligned with a sect, a cult, a religious party, or not aligned with any of them. If he’s a born-again believer but caught up in some divisive splinter group or sect, I will try my utmost to “show him a more excellent way.” I would suggest to him: Reform your walk with the Lord by ousting all shades of sectarianism and grasping true freedom in Jesus.
 
    So, as my brother asked, “Can a man believe and accept false doctrine and still be saved?” Allow me to reverse the question: Must a man be flawlessly indoctrinated in all areas before he can be saved? If yes, as my brother seems to imply, none of us will be saved, for not one of us has reached an absolute level of doctrinal excellence—not even when we initially came to the Lord for salvation.
 
    So, yes, I accept those brothers in error. I have no other kind. To one degree or another, all of us are doctrinally defective. Perfection is—or should be—our goal. But we will never attain such a high level of excellence as long as we remain in this old earthly tabernacle. This is why God’s grace is so vital in each of our lives, for without His grace to balance things out, we would be lost creatures, wandering in an evil world with no hope of rescue. Paul emphasized this truth to the Ephesians, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God” (Eph. 2:8).
_______

   As to those who deliberately and divisively advocate false doctrine, the scriptures you introduced apply to them. They do not apply to those who are honestly caught up in defective doctrine. For if they do, even you cannot  be saved, because you have not (nor has anyone else) attained a state of perfection in doctrine.

Buff
 
37
John Zain,

Before engaging in discussion, would you answer one question for me?  Do you believe that Jesus Christ and His Sacrifice are sufficient for our salvation?

Bond

I believe that you just identified the "great divide" at this discussion board.

There seems to be a group here who are not confident in their salvation and just have a hope of salvation, and there is another group that believes that Christ's work was sufficient and that God Almighty loves His children and will not let His children be so easily snatched away. 

Faith is a gift from God and He did not include doubt along with that.  Doubt is that seed planted by the devil. 
What was Christ's work?  Be very specific?  I asked this question before and got no replies?  Seems to be a blank on just what was His work?

38
Apologetics Forum / Re: Christianity versus Islam
« Last post by notreligus on Today at 11:00:13 AM »
Deleted double post.
39
Apologetics Forum / Re: Christianity versus Islam
« Last post by notreligus on Today at 10:59:13 AM »
I'm curious to know what people think about the Islamic idea that God does not need a son to redeem people. To the muslims, worshipping Jesus is idolatry and for this reason Christians will go to hell. Yet, the Quran teaches that Jesus will return a second time and that he was immaculately conceived. Muslims seem to think many of the same things of Jesus as Christians up to the point where Christians label him the "Son of God".  Of course, the Bible would contradict Muslim beliefs, but I am confused as to how we know the Bible is true and the Quran is not. Or any other holy book, for that matter.

I recently had a discussion with a Muslim and asked him to explain his beliefs to me. I also explained to him that Christians feel the power of the Holy Spirit and use that as guidance in our lives. I asked him if Muslims experience any such thing and he said he often feels the peace of God through difficult situations in his life and that "based on my life experience and how situations in my life have worked out and the peace that I feel, I know that I am right with God."

I paraphrased that quote a bit, but that is essentially what he said. His words are exactly what Christians say about their own experience with God. And yet, we (religious groups) all accuse each other of being wrong. But if we look closely at those of another faith, we will find that there are people of many different religions who are JUST as devout (and oftentimes moreso) than Christians, and JUST as satisfied and assured that they are on the right track with God. And they have many arguments as to why Christians should NOT feel assured in their position with God.

If people of various faiths feel this way, then how are we any different? We can quote Bible versus to explain this, but those versus come from OUR Bible, a book that Muslims claim is corrupt and can list reasons as to why (just as we do with the Quran).

I'm having a bit of a crisis of faith. It is difficult for me to maintain any sort of strong belief in my Christianity anymore because when I look at the big picture, it doesn't appear to be so different from some other religions. I would very much like to regain my faith in God and Jesus Christ, but I'm struggling.

Mohammed's blood could not reconcile anyone to God Almighty.  Only the Blood of Christ did that.  Without the shedding of blood there is no remission or forgiveness of sin.  Only Christ's unique blood was acceptable to the Father. 
40
Theology Forum / Re: Will Doctrinal Defects Keep Us Out Of Heaven?
« Last post by Reformer on Today at 10:54:51 AM »
Q: Will a doctrinal defect keep us out of heaven?

A: If it leads to dis-belief, then yes.

Thanks for the clarification.

Buff
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