7Omar also said...QuoteIMO dalet was saying Jesus is a representation of YHWH in full in the flesh but YHWH was not limited to Jesus body as Jesus called out to YHWH externally and not to himself.
Omar...part of the nature of being God is that He is not limited in doing things like we are. I cannot be in three different places at once, manifesting myself in three different ways for different purposes and goals...but God can.
Therefore, it is nothing for God the Father to sit on His throne in heaven, speaking to God the Son here on earth, and as God the Spirit be present within a believer working in his life on a daily basis.
You are reading your own limitations onto God that simply do not apply to Him.
I like your post SM. but I am a bit confuse with something. Both of you are referring to the same being as omnipresent. You refer to YHWH by the title God that can be in more than one place anytime. Omar is referring to YHWH that can be in more than one place anytime including more than one person, except that he doesn't refer to him by the title god. Also, you are referring to Jesus as YHWH in the flesh which is true. However, Omar is saying that Jesus, YHWH in flesh is not omnipresent. Is it that you are saying that YHWH in the "Character" of Jesus, the flesh, while on Earth in the new testament times had the ability to be talking to Peter at the sea side as a fisher man and at the same time be with John getting baptized at the river? Certainly YHWH can do that in his character but could Jesus in the character of Jesus ? The purpose of the flesh was to be the character of flesh, limited in the body but can serve as a staff like that of Moses giving powers to heal. Is it that Omar was limiting YHWH that you call god or was it that he was limiting Jesus that was flesh that you also call god ? Both are considered Elohims in ruling kingdom and nations which was translated as theos in Greek meaning Most high and in more recent history substituted by a new word "god" of strange origin questionable pagan, now meaning deity applied to all that ruled, where YHWH, or you may say Jesus, is the supreme ruler or by the first commandment English standards the only "Ruler" even though there were many in the tribunal court system of Israel where certain elohims address certain matters before it reach Moses as a higher elohim/judge to make a decision however YHWH was the supreme elohim/judge/ruler with none above(before? Hebrew al) him. Is it that this more recent word "God" supersedes that of Creator, Ruler, Elohim. In character, Ruler and Elohim are the same but different from the character of "Creating" which is to cause existence. YHWH in character is existence in all sense and not just self existing as most people stress but also cause existence. That is the meaning of Eyer(I am/I exist) Asher(that) Eyer(I am/I exist/cause existence) which Jesus bears testimony and represent and proved to the world for people to repent. I find it strange if there is a bible verse that might quote Jesus saying I am it is highlighted to say he was saying I am that I am like its a name but was the character of YHWH mistranslated where the verb to be has to be used together twice to show a character of existence in all sense which is included in the name YHWH
If the title god was applied to other gods of other nations is it appropriate to refer to YHWH as god in making reference to the verses below:
“And in all that I have said to you take heed. And make no mention of the name of other elohim, let it not be heard from your mouth." Exodus 23:13
“And it shall be, in that day,” declares YHWH, “that you call Me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer call Me ‘My Ba'al.’ “And I shall remove the names of the Ba'als from her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name. Hoshea 2:16-17
“I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsehood in My Name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ “Till when shall it be in the heart of the prophets? – the prophets of falsehood and prophets of the deceit of their own heart, who try to make My people forget My Name by their dreams which everyone relates to his neighbour, as their fathers forgot My Name for Ba'al." Jer 23:25-27
And what does the name Ba'al mean in Hebrew? It means lord. In my view calling YHWH 'The LORD' is the worst possible blasphemy because it is exactly what he makes clear he does not want to be called. What have the shepherds of Christianity done? They have caused the sheep to forget the name of YHWH for 'The Lord and God'.
“The priests did not say, ‘Where is YHWH?’ And those who handle the Torah did not know Me, and the shepherds transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied by Ba'al, and walked after matters that did not profit." Jer 2:8
This is the real question that was over looked.
Vision...I don't think that I caught all of what you are saying above...your writing was a bit jumbled and continuous...but if I get the main picture...QuoteBoth of you are referring to the same being as omnipresent.
If I gave that impression, that was not what I was going for. Jesus as man laid aside His godly attributes (omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence), therefore He was not all-knowing while He walked the earth. As Fish pointed out in his post, Jesus did exercise certain attributes, but in my mind He was exercising the gifts of the Spirit which He had come to give to us through the New Covenant. Jesus didn't walk this earth as you and I do, He had the FULLNESS of the Spirit, where it is a struggle for you and I to walk in the Spirit even on a daily basis.
Part of Christ's mission was to demonstrate to us what the believer can do "in Him," that is, while one abides in the covenant relationship with God. He exercised casting out demons, healing the sick, words of knowledge, discernment of spirits...just about all of the gifts except speaking in tongues. Everything that Christ did we can do (John 14:12) as long as we remain abiding in Him (John 15:5).
My main point to Omar was that Jesus Christ was Yahweh God in the flesh. As far as your comment about pagan gods, the word god simply means deity...why the English bible translators choose to change the specific names and titles of Yahweh in the OT Scriptures is beyond me, but when Paul wrote the word translated as God in his writings, he used the Greek word theos (or one of its cognates), and theos means god. So...I don't have an answer for you there. All I know is that there is only one "god" and His personal proper name is Yahweh, His covenant name to His covenant people.
I am sure for many on this board, that when we say the word "God" we are referring to Yahweh, and He says in a number of places that there is no other god beside Him. It is probably tradition which keeps people using the term god...because, honestly, god is a generic term used for deity. We know that there is only ONE true deity, and so I don't think it bothers most of us to just say "God"...since we all agree who that one and true living God is.
Ok since Jesus was not able to show all the attributes in full as how YHWH would it therefore means that when we a referring to Jesus we are referring to Jesus and when we are referring to the Creator we are referring to the Creator YHWH as Jesus is not identified with creating or being omnipresent and other obvious attributes of YHWH not clearly seen in Jesus such as appearing in fire and so forth.
As you say the word god is generic which I am sure the source can be identified if we bother to check I will tell you that it does not simply mean deity and that the concept of deity did not exist in ancient times. You either had ruling authority or not and YHWH other characteristics than Just being ruler. Ruling had nothing to do with divine even thou YHWH is supernatural. Other supernatural essence were termed empty customs when people were praising passed rulers that died. The first command is" Thou shall not have other Rulers/Elohim above me" as the Hebrew word "Al" means above translated as before kind of implies that there should be no other elohim except him which was not the message but that he is the most high. The Greek word theos means most high as in Excellency or Emperor which why it was used to translate Elohim which is used the same way. The generic word god though does not bear the same meaning in character however gods were also worshiped presumed to be of supernatural essence not in relation to YHWH. This how it reached in translation to be applied universally for theos and all that ruled, not because it meant the same thing but the being or presence which it was referred to occupied a similar position.
To the contrary my friend---of course the Bible speaks of Jesus as the creator:
"but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word" (Heb. 1:2,3)
"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him". (Col. 1:15,16)