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General Discussion Forum / Re: The use of 'tongues' in private prayer!?
« Last post by Dave_UK on Today at 11:45:18 AM »
As the chap who started this topic - I am frankly astonished that it has caused so much comment for/against.  I would like to emphasize that I have only used it in private prayer a few times so far, and only when I have felt the Spirit's gentle leading i.e. the "urge" to speak sounds unknown to me.  There was no emotionalism associated with it, I could have easily stopped it had I wished. So am sure it does not originate from me. On one recent occasion, I think the Spirits concern had been for certain situations or people who had expressed a need at our local C.of.E. Church Life Group meetings - at which some of us had already prayed "with understanding" i.e. plain English, for the needs of members present.  The "unbidden" stream of gentle sounds just seemed to "bubble up" within me, after I had left one of the meetings and made my way home.  The "urge" must have lasted for some 20 minutes - and was certainly the longest and most gentle of any such "incidents" I had ever previously experienced.  We C.of.E lot are almost  "dead" to moves of the Spirit you know  - at least by the standards of some other churches!  At a following meeting a lady for whom among others we had prayed for, reported an uplifting amelioration in her Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (the cause of which, medicos were unable to "fathom" or  provide any alleviation).  That lady is a devout Christian, was active in our church (she has since moved), and from earlier conversations I believe that at some time the Lord has "touched" her life in drawing her closer to Himself. Sadly as a result of problems between our team vicar (who led our Life Group meetings) and his "boss" the rector, our team vicar sought another "placing" elsewhere and was recently "licensed" in that locality.  Meanwhile without a good leader, the "Life Group has "folded", much to my disappointment (it provided me with a much welcome source of social contact!).  The other members have decided not to carry on regardless - so we await a new team vicar (who may or may not fill the vacant slot!). Since the cessation of the Group meetings - no further "leading by the Spirit" has occurred in my life, although I still "hear" the Lord's gracious responses to my little prayers made "with understanding".  Well that's about all that can be said at present - in my case at least!
General Discussion Forum / Letter To Satan
« Last post by notreligus on Today at 11:41:44 AM »
A friend of mine who is the senior pastor of a Christian Church read this "letter to Satan" at the close of his sermon this past weekend:

Satan, listen up, listen now, listen long and listen well. We're the church of the living God. We're bought with blood, charged with power, married to Jesus, indwelt with his spirit, immune from destruction and destined for victory.

We won't fear you're foolish foibles, run from your roaring, fold under your fire, be scattered by your schemes, be derailed by your deceptions, lulled by your lies, buckle under your barking, acquiesce under your attacks, or be scared by your subtlety.

Were part of the company of the committed, the crowd of the covenant, the congregation of the courageous, the crew of the commissioned. We're a fellowship of the faithful, the battalion of believers, the regiment of the redeemed, the division of the devoted, the army of the approved, the team of the triumphant, the lot of the Lord's, the platoon of the powerful, and the vestige of the victorious.

We're not here to dread the war, plan in the war, study the war, evaluate the war, or discuss the war. We came to win the war!

Satan, the clock is running out for you. We await our rapture but your rupture, our consummation but your condemnation, our reign but your ruin, our victory and your vagrancy, our success and your sorrow.

You can summon all your hosts, Satan, but you'll lose this battle. For he that is within us is greater than he that is in the world. We're the church of the living God; blood washed, Spirit filled, battle scarred, unrelenting and indestructible, and the gates of hell will never ever prevail against us!!!
Theology Forum / Re: The baptism in Mt.28:19
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 11:27:41 AM »
Michael said...

So Sir you are dead certain that the audience of Paul understand that Paul is referencing the New Covenant whenever Paul mentions redemption, or the phrase "in Christ," in his letters and preaching, like you do, and whenever Paul mentions grace, he makes an indirect reference to the New Covenant. Okay. I won't try to argue with that, since you will just dismiss it by saying "You don't know what you are talking about, and have much to learn".

Sir SM Sir, that is a most encouraging comment coming from a supposed mature and excellently learned Christian about ANE covenants and Biblical Hermeneutics.

It is indeed a fact that his audience knew full well when he was referencing covenants, because they understood that God only worked through covenants for salvific purposes. God only give gifts through covenant, and every gift given to us comes through the New Covenant today: grace, the indwelling Spirit, baptism in the Spirit, eternal life, salvation, redemption...the list goes on and on...and NOTHING comes to you that does not come to you from God through covenant.

As for your second paragraph, you are letting your brain run away with your fingers again. I said what I said because you are only reacting out of emotional issues and not thinking about what is being said or anything. When you were corrected by your teachers in high school, did you retort in the same manner?

Sir SMaster, I'm curious, can you prove that it is a fact that his audience knew full well when he was referencing covenants, because they understood that God only worked through covenants for salvific purposes?

As for the second paragraph, you don't have to explain why you said what you said Sir SMaster. Words coming out of man's mouth comes from his heart and speaks and manifest his character.

I think it was James who said of the tongue, "no man can tame the tongue".

First, you are trying to be smart with your condescending remarks, it bothers me little.

Second, I can prove that his audience understood his covenant references because he didn't have to go into detail explaining them. He knew full well that they understood what he was talking about otherwise he would have had to explain them in more detail.

If I am writing you a letter and mention a paragraph about a chess match I was watching, and used the term "en passant" in my letter without explanation because I know that you are a chess player and know what the term means, and someone comes along and find that letter 2000 years later who is not a chess player...

Is that helping you any? Do you understand the direct correlation to your questions?

Paul, not having to go into detail explaining them in scriptures does not necessarily proves that his audience understood his covenant references.

It does, unless you want to postulate - for the sake of your argument - that Paul was a moron and would have just started talking to them about something that he knew they would not understand without explaining to them what he was talking about.

I don't think Paul was a moron. He was well educated in his day.

Moron or not, well educated or not, is not the matter, I think. Peter, a poor fisherman in Bethsaida, was not educated as was Paul, and may not have even gone to school. But he taught and preached as did Paul. The thing is, all scriptures that they wrote was by inspiration of God.

These passages come to mind:

1 Cor. 1:26-28
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

1 Cor. 2:10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit.

Yes, Peter was not educated in Judaism like Paul was...yet in your overconfidence you fail to understand that He walked with Jesus for three years and had education that Paul didn't have.

Second, the inspiration of the Scripture which they wrote has absolutely NOTHING to do with the current conversation.

Third, Paul's words in both passages you give in I Cor. do not pertain to you and I...once again you overlook the FACT that he was talking about the revelation of the gospel to them in their day, steeped in their cultural and historical backgrounds...which YOU know NOTHING about, comparatively speaking.

God revealed those things to them by His Spirit, in the background of their culture and history, so that they understood what we being shown to them. They were apostles...do you claim to have the same spiritual awareness as an apostle? Be careful the ground of which you tread...

Theology Forum / Re: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 11:22:23 AM »
Michael said...

I understand your point, and I'm glad you understand mine.

At least you are saying now, that you could be wrong.

I never said that I couldn't be wrong...what I have been saying is that you are wrong.

Theology Forum / Re: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 11:20:58 AM »
Michael said...

"The HS is all powerful and infinitely wise, so needs no aid of man."

This is true. I can't understand why you can't accept that, without qualification, or without having issues with what is possible and what is plausible.

Because in the way that you are making it out to be, it is NOT true.

The way you are using it, can be accurately exampled in a man who says that all he needs is his gun, because with his gun, he can kill any attacker that might try to attack him.

I hope that you can see what I am saying without me having to spell it out to you...

Theology Forum / Re: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 11:18:13 AM »
Michael said...

So, at least you now say, not all scriptures.

Umm...yes...and I never stated every Scripture to begin with...

"Jesus wept."

How much of the Spirit do you need, Michael, in order to understand that?


1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 3:23-24
23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

In these two passages, you will not come to an accurate interpretation of them unless you understand some cultural and historical information.

In the passages I cited, in Luke 24:45,  we read that, their understanding was opened by Jesus, that they might comprehend the Scriptures. Can you tell me, what you understand by that?

When we take the passage IN ITS CONTEXT, which you apparently do not take into consideration (which you have demonstrated a number of times), it tells us that Jesus is talking about the prophecies concerning Himself, His suffering, death, and resurrection. He did NOT give them supernatural understanding of all the Scriptures in the OT, only those which pertained to Him.

In the passages I cited, in 2 Timothy 3:15-17, we read that Holy Scriptures are able to make one wise for salvation. How? Paul says through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Can you tell me, what you understand by that?

2 Timothy 3:15-17
15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Again, Paul says, "which are ABLE to make you wise for salvation..." he did not say that they WILL make you wise for salvation. Then he does continue to say that they can do this "through faith in Christ," which is a misnomer on your part. No one can understand the points of the Scriptures that deal with salvation unless they first believe in Christ, that is a no-brainer.

As I stated, it doesn't take the Spirit to understand when the Scriptures says that Jesus "came down from the mountain"...but when it comes to doctrine, that is an entirely different scenario.

Theology Forum / Re: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 11:08:11 AM »
Michael said...

So, you don't believe that the HS gives understanding.

Now you are being childish again.

I did not say that, nor did I allude to it. Stop playing games.

And I presume then that you don't pray for understanding.

Again, childish...are you going to keep this kind of nonsense up?

You think that you will have understanding by your own doing, that is, through your study of the sciences ~ theology, hermeneutics, etc.~, and history.

Again, you are being childish..."sir." You know very well what I have stated earlier...unless you have Alzheimer's or something. Just for the sake of the readers, we are to pray and ask for guidance in our understanding of the Scriptures, just as I have already stated, yet the Spirit works in what we know, NOT what we don't know. Unless we study the culture and historical amenities of those things in Paul's day which his original audience knew full well, we will not come to an accurate and complete understanding of the Scriptures.

Keep twisting what I say around, Michael. It makes you no better than a muslim in the way that they "witness" to people.

On my part, I do. And so I pray for such as did Paul, for Timothy.

Yes, so you have stated...and you are your own prime example of exactly how that does NOT get you to the intended meaning of the Scriptures. You have many false ideologies in your personal theology which you have demonstrated over and over again, precisely BECAUSE you don't study the cultural or historical facts surrounding and permeating the Scriptures...of which the Spirit CAN give you insight into, BUT does not normally do.

As I have also stated earlier, it is POSSIBLE, but NOT probably.

2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things.

It is the Lord who gives understanding in all things, don't you agree?

No...because you don't understand what you are reading. Paul says, "MAY the Lord give you understanding in all things." He does not say that the Lord WILL, but he is making a statement of possibility, not a statement of fact. May means that the thing invoked MIGHT do what is invoked...it does not mean SHALL, and in your confusion you are not paying attention to the details of the passages that you keep referencing.

God does NOT give you understanding in all things, and to believe that He does is really quite naive. Do you have understanding of photosynthesis? Do you understand the workings of computer programs? Do you understand "the paths of the sea"? I am willing to bet that you do not.

I have faith in the Lord, that in His time, will, wisdom, and purpose, He gives me understanding, as He pleases. He is the one who gives understanding, on top of all that man may do to know the things of the Spirit of God written out in scriptures.

You are only half right, and a half right is still a wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble, but God does not give people, normally, the cultural or historical understanding SUPERNATURALLY in the way that you keep claiming that He will.

Keep living in your dream world, but in doing so you will not be able to come to an accurate or complete understanding of God's Word.

Theology Forum / Re: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 10:53:31 AM »
Taking the WHOLE of Scripture, the gospel is the good news that the kingdom of God is now made available to mankind where before it was not.
You made a statement and then went against the very statement that you made. You said Taking the WHOLE of Scripture the gospel is the good news....so far this is true. Then you said~ made available to mankind where before it was not....well that is not so. Have you for gotten this scripture:
Galatians 3:6-8~"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."
God preached the gospel unto Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3~So, in order to see if we are preaching the same gospel as God preached unto Abraham, then we need to consider carefully the nature of the message that God spoke unto Abraham to test our gospel with THAT ONE. I say they are ONE and the SAME.

You started out by saying that...
Quote from: SwordMaster
the gospel is the good news that the kingdom of God is now made available to mankind
The gospel that God preached unto Abraham said not one thing about the avialibiity of the good news but a PROMISE of BLESSINGS through the seed of Abraham that that seed was CHRIST.
Galatians 3:16~"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
Now, shall we move forward and consider the TRUE GOSPEL and expose all counterfeits that desire to pass as the gospel of God/Jesus Christ? The true gospel is good news of GRACE freely given on the behalf of Jesus Christ for his seed by God's own will and purpose. It is a gospel based upon PROMISES secured by an OATH by God himself. Nothing is left to chance or, the will of man, the flesh, etc.  BUT GOD'S faithfulness alone.


Red, you are not reasoning as an aged man in the Scriptures...the "gospel" that Paul says was preached to Abraham was NOT THE gospel which we find in the NT being preached, and Paul clarifies what his intention is by using that word when he says, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."

"In you shall all the nations be blessed." is NOT the gospel...it does refer to the outcome of the gospel coming into the world, but it is not the gospel.

Theology Forum / Re: “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 10:49:09 AM »
Michael said...

That's right, the gospel is about the Christ.

Actually, it is not.

The gospel is the good news that the kingdom of God has now become available for men to enter in to it, Christ is just a part of the gospel, not the whole of the gospel.

SMaster, please tell us what the whole gospel is, according to you. The gospel that is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

Taking the WHOLE of Scripture, the gospel is the good news that the kingdom of God is now made available to mankind where before it was not. The OT saints did not enter into the kingdom of God, they went into a holding place that was not heaven, where the kingdom of God was.

The gospel entails the Messiah, atonement in His blood, and all else that God gives to us in the extension of His kingdom here on earth in Christ, through the New Covenant. Basically, the gospel is the good news that through the New Covenant which the Messiah would bring, gives us access to God and all that He bestows upon those who choose to enter into a covenant relationship with God in Christ.

That is the gospel according to the Scriptures.

So, for you, the kingdom of God was not available to mankind then? And if it is available now, why not then, and only now?

And, please go ahead and tell us how this gospel then is God's power to salvation for everyone who believes, as Paul says it is.

The first sentence...no, it is not "for me," it is what the Scriptures demonstrate. The OT saints could not enter the kingdom of God, and we are told that in a few places. The kingdom of God could only be entered into after the Messiah came and made it available.

As for your second repeated question, I answered it above in the post you quoted...did you not read it?

Theology Forum / Re: the difference between the soul and spirit
« Last post by SwordMaster on Today at 10:45:09 AM »
bemark said...

So I have a question. Once born again we now have contact with Father God again and it says that the kingdom of God is within us. Our body and soul need sanctification as also,our spirit man. And this spirit man is learning how to process the things of the spirit realm especially with our fresh relationship with God. We will make errors along the way and the Bible warns us about being deceived as the devil comes as a angel of light. Maybe that is why it needs sanctification as well. I'm really walking this out with you all as I'm going through this.

I think what you are talking about above here, is renewing our minds, which has a direct affect upon renewing ourselves and putting on "the new man." If you read the passages that address mind renewing (Rom. 12:1-2; Eph. 4:23-24; Col. 3:10, etc...) you will find that we must renew our minds as the basic foundation of the Christian walk. Until we renew our minds, we cannot really walk in obedience to God, because practically all battles begin in the mind.

Once the mind/soul is renewed, then we begin to act upon it, which solidifies the mind renewal process...

I Peter 1:22
You have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth, in sincere love out of a pure heart; I exhort you to love one another earnestly,

Colossians 3:10
And you have put on the new man, being continually renewed into the image of the Creator through personal relationship and involvement with Him.

Ephesians 4:23-24
23   but continually receive the renewing of your minds in the spirit.
24  and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

“in the spirit” = this phrase seems not to be as many translations give, that it is the “spirit of your mind” which really makes little sense since the spirit and the mind are two separate parts of the human being. Rather, we find more sense in this verse telling us that we must remain walking in the spirit (going after spiritual pursuits), and in this way our minds are continually renewed by such actions.
   This makes more logical sense when read together with the next verse, which also directly insinuates that the new man is not created by the imputed righteousness or holiness of Christ to the believer, but rather is created by the actions of practicing righteousness and holiness.

Righteousness = dikaiosune, meaning conformity to God’s standard, all that He commands or appoints; specifically as it pertains to conduct, character, virtue; it speaks of actions, fulfilling one’s expected duties. This word for righteousness does not intend that righteousness which is imputed to the believer by faith in Christ, it specifically intends one’s actions, conduct, and the fulfillment of duty toward God.

Holiness = hosiotes, meaning that consecration to God manifest in the discharge of one’s obligational duties in religious and social life. Hosiotes refers more to the keeping of the ordinances of the New Covenant than it does to one’s character.

Taken together, this passage addresses that we receive the renewing (renovation) of our minds as we walk in the spirit; that is – as we practice the spiritual pursuits of walking in obedience to God in righteous and holy actions and behavior.

So where is the Kingdom of God located. My guess now is it's located within our spirit man like the Garden was located in Eden?

The Kingdom of God is a kingdom of people, not a geographical place like the US is. In other words, whoever is saved, abiding in Christ and walking in obedience to God, that person is part of the Kingdom of God.

So I'm guessing that the part that is complete within us is the Kingdom of God. This kingdom , God himself then affects our spirit man and our soul and our body so all three can be complete in him as he is in us?

God works with us in order to attain to a close relationship with Him, that is what all of this is all about. God's desire and plan is for people to come to Him for personal relationship, and the way we move closer to Him is by renewing our minds so that we can walk in the Spirit and put to death sin in our lives. The more we walk in righteousness and holiness, the closer we move toward Him and become one with Him.

Of course, the ultimate completion of becoming one with Him doesn't happen until we get to heaven.


This is my take on Eph 4 when it talks about the new man

I'm not sure when I explain these things that people get it because the way i explain it. I do it with the way that i relate ito myself with the spirit realm or the annointing around us . If you don't feel the annointing then I don't know how to explain it any other way... I think you do as in hearing from your posts so i will explain it as its when the annointing is upon you( put on Christ Jesus as he is our clothes of righteousness that covers our nakedness ) ....so  its the Lords power around you. When our spirit  meets with his Spirit and it becomes so strong that it's not just within you now, but its  starting to surround you as in clothe you. So now we are in a cocoon of his Glory radiating from within us shining around us. That's when he also can come upon us.If he comes upon us then we now have a door into the heavens.

So if i look now at Eph 4 i see it in a new light

Testify in the Lord . This is achieved by engaging him when we speak about him to others so his presence surrounds us. its really simple ..because we just recall our love that we have for him and let this love , our love and the love of God together shine forth. now we are in the spirit , so we now speak or testify of our love for him as we are in him.  We are in him now yes ? and he now is comming through us and going out from us. We have just opened up the spirit realm . True love breaks down the hardest of man because he really just wants to be loved and accepted like we do. Just stay on in the love of God while you are speaking. Some people might call that now walking in the Spirit because now you are walking with him.Dont let the mind control the spirit but let the mind be sensitive to the spirit of God working through you . So it's ok to go slow because the Holy Spirit is now here breaking through because of the love that's flowing through you. Just smile and release love then speak the word in humility

If there is no encounter with you then there will be no encounter with them.You are Jesus ( not Jesus but you know what i mean) to them until they get there own door into the kingdom.

now it talks about the gentiles walking about in the futility of there minds so fulling the lusts of the flesh because they are getting it from the earthly realm because they know no better. the pig is still hungry and will eat what is before him because thay have not the life of God to draw from.

So it says to be renewed in the spirit of your mind. Ok so how is this done. Our minds are renewed each time we make contact with him . Love him with all your heart soul strength and mind. He is in the spirit so as we enter him our earthly minds get regenerated. We focous our mind on him. His presence. It ebbs and flows so we align to the high and go higher. Shifts in the spirit realm. Speak words until you sense a shift then enter and stay until another higher shift occurs. We get life now and this life has to be renewed daily . I know you are getting this SM . Its a daily recharge so we can get that eternal life so we can be what God wants us to be that our testimony is strong and not weak. This is putting on the new man. The new man is Christ Jesus it is his presence and only by his presence shall we be the testimony to the world and also to us.

Also by being in the spirit realm with him I believe that it s like one of those old cameras where it takes the shot but needs time to develop. You may not think you are seeing in the spirit but rest assured your life is still developing and wisdom is being imparted.
 Yes SM the word that brings us to obedience is the result of the likes of Paul who was walking with God and brought forth truth so we can be closer to him. If our mind are at rest so are we.

Obedience is easier if we have the power to overcome. This power is in the spirit realm found in Jesus Christ and documented by our fathers who have gone before and have written it for our instruction called the Word of God


I understand what you are saying, but it isn't exactly according to Scripture.

Mind renewal isn't a spiritualized deal...it is replacing what is in our minds put there by years of living in the world, with the things of God, the things of the Spirit, Scripture, etc...

We cannot maintain ourselves as followers of Christ if we keep the mentality of the world. As examples...I cannot remain a Christian if I hold to the mentality that homosexuals will go to heaven, because that is the mentality of the world around us, not God. I cannot remain a Christian if I hold to the mentality that I want to go have sex with every woman that I can get my hooks into...because that is not the mentality of God, that is a sin to God.

Does that make sense to you?

We are actually commanded to renew our minds with the things of God, to think on things above, not on things of the world, etc., because if we do not, just as the passages I gave you above state, we will not be able to walk in obedience to God, and if we cannot walk in obedience to God, even with the Spirit's help, then we will not be walking in holiness and righteousness...and we will never grow to spiritual maturity.

A person may retain eternal life, but he will be miserable through his life because he will constantly lose the spiritual battles that he goes through, because all spiritual battles just about begin in the mind, and without a renewed mindset, we will fail constantly. Most people can't handle that...if they keep failing over and over again, they eventually give us saying to themselves, "I just cant do this, so why even try anymore."


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