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41
Theology Forum / One Can Fall From Grace, Be Disqualified, Fall Short
« Last post by Squeaky on Today at 11:10:34 AM »
                      GRACE (FALL FROM))(   DISQUALIFIED) (FALL SHORT)
Heb 6:10
10   For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Luke 1:50
50   And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
2 Cor 5:5
5   Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Rom 8:27
27   Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
2 Cor 10:4-5
4   For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5   casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
1 Cor 11:31
31   For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged.
John 5:22-23
22   "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,
23   "that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
II Jn 1:9-11
9   Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10   If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11   for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
Rev 22:18-19
18   For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19   and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Acts 4:12
12   "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Eph 4:4-6
4   There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;
5   one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6   one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Eph 4:11-14
11   And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12   for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13   till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14   that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
Col 2:8
8   Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Heb 10:28-29
28   Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29   Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 8:13
13   In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
John 14:6
6   Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Gal 5:1-4
1   Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2   Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3   And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4   You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Heb 2:1
1   Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away.
2 Cor 13:5
5   Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified.
Rom 3:23
23   for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Heb 12:15
15   looking diligently lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled;
Heb 6:10
10   For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Rev 3:15-16
15   "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.
16   "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
(NKJ)
xxThere are so many ways that one can be disqualified, and disciples dont know it. A disciple is a student or beginner in Christianity. Now because someone who has fallen from grace or fallen short or been disqualifed doesnt know it them selves. It is easy for them to lead a disciple down the wrong path. When God has turned a person over to a reprobate mind, the person doesnt have the spiritual knowledge to discern it, and they become the blind leading the blind. Also a hypocrite doesnt know he is a hypocrite. The only evidence of any of this is having less verses now than you had a year ago. Because a christians growth, is in their growing in the Spirit, or in the idea that their still teaching the same thing today that they taught a year ago, if their on the same message. Where is their growth? This is the way to check yourself.


Rev 2:5
5   "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-- unless you repent.
(NKJ)

Luke 13:2-5
2   And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things?
3   "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
4   "Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem?
5   "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish."
(NKJ)


Heb 10:38-39
38   Now the just shall live by faith; but if anyone draws back, my soul has no pleasure in him."
39   But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.
(NKJ)

Jude 1:1-7

1   Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
2   Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3   Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4   For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5   But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6   And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7   as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
(NKJ)


Rom 11:19-22
19   You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in."
20   Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.
21   For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.
22   Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
(NKJ)



42
Churches of Christ Forum / Re: A Few did not bow their knee
« Last post by Johnb on Today at 11:08:00 AM »
Thanks Nick.  My wife is an avid reader and already knew about the play and had planed on ordering it when I mentioned our conversation.  She has been reading some of Carl's  books and is even more impressed now than when we worshiped with him.  She has said more than once reading his books How did he keep such a loving attitude with all the stuff main line CoC did to him? 
43
Theology Forum / Re: New Testament
« Last post by Squeaky on Today at 11:07:51 AM »
Well I hope you know that saved is NOT salvation. They are different.
       
             SAVED (YOUR SAVED SO YOU CAN WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION)
Jude 1:3-5
3   Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
4   For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5   But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Heb 9:8-9
8   the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing.
9   It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience--
Jude 1:5
5   But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
Phil 2:12
12   Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
2 Cor 7:15-16
15   And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him.
16   Therefore I rejoice that I have confidence in you in everything.
Titus 2:11-13
11   For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12   teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
13   looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Heb 3:17-19
17   Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness?
18   And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19   So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
(NKJ)

Rom 5:9
9   Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
(NKJ)

Acts 2:40
40   And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."
(NKJ)


 SALVATION (BEING ACCEPTED)ETERNAL    SAVED (PROTECTED WHILE YOU WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION)TEMPORARY

Heb 5:8-9
8   though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
9   And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Phil 2:12
12   Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
Heb 10:19-20
19   Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20   by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh,
Luke 1:77
77   To give knowledge of salvation to His people by the remission of their sins,
Heb 6:1
1   Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
2 Pet 1:20-2:1
20   knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
21   for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
CHAPTER 2
1   But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2 Pet 2:18
18   For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2 Pet 1:13
13   Yes, I think it is right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you,
James 1:22
22   But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
James 2:17
17   Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Heb 13:8
8   Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
II Th 2:13
13   But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,
Luke 17:20-21
20   Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation;
21   "nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
Heb 4:9-10
9   There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
10   For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
Mark 9:1
1   And He said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power."
2 Cor 5:5
5   Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
Eph 1:13-14
13   In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14   who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Acts 10:34-35
34   Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
35   "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
2 Cor 7:15
15   And his affections are greater for you as he remembers the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling you received him.
2 Cor 7:10
10   For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death.
Heb 2:3-4
3   how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
4   God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?
Jude 1:3
3   Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
Gal 5:4-5
4   You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5   For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:22-25
22   But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23   gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24   And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25   If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Eph 1:4-6
4   just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5   having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
6   to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7-12
7   In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace
8   which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence,
9   having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself,
10   that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth-- in Him.
11   In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
12   that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
Eph 1:13-14
13   In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
14   who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Jude 1:2-3
2   Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3   Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.
2 Pet 3:14-15
14   Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;
15   and account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation-- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,
(NKJ)
xxxxx   Saved and salvation are alittle different. Saved is your saved from the condemnation you deserve right now. So if your alive your saved. But salvation is being accepted or worthy to go to heaven. Now the one thing that makes you worthy is in knowing your not worthy. Confusing- God wants us to know by what power we make it-His. Our works and the things we do show our determination to please Him. And our determination is what gets us so much mercy and forgiveness. And our determination mixed together with His mercy and forgiveness makes us worthy. And one of the requirements is that we know the truth about ourselves that we alone with out Him are not worthy. Once you have worked 0ut your salvation your name is wirtten in the book of life.









44
Theology Forum / Re: God has not protected His word
« Last post by Johnb on Today at 11:02:13 AM »
Get real.  We have no originals so claiming "You now know, that somewhere, scattered amidst thousands of translations is a very near replica of the original manuscripts of the Word of God."  is purely subjective and dishonest because without the originals there is absolutely no way to prove that statement. 
Let me make a wild guess you are a KJV only person.
45
Theology Forum / Re: God has not protected His word
« Last post by chosenone on Today at 10:58:11 AM »
Favorite and best are not necessarily synonamous. Especially with Bible translations

They can be.
46
Catholic Forum / Re: Why are there so many rules in the Catholic Church?
« Last post by winsome on Today at 10:53:37 AM »
Quote from: JD34
Winsom, in a strange way you make me laugh..you remind me of a hard core skeptic and a conspiracy theorist at the same time... Lol... Please don't take offense at that... Its just that I am not a good communicator and after years of education and growth in the spirit I have peace in every aspect of my life. I don't want to feel that same kind of anguish that Peter and Paul must have felt during their disagreements. the effort that I would have to put in to clarifying my position on Catholicism or the Catholic Church is a mute point..Just know that I view the Catholic Church as a positive force. Any church or religion that glorify our Lord and Savior Christ I am good with...

OK, Sorry if I came across a bit hard. But there are some who come here who just seem intent on making derogatory comments about the Catholic Church and justifying their opinions seems alien to them.

We'll leave it there shall we?

God bless
47
Catholic Forum / Re: Why would anyone become Catholic?
« Last post by mclees8 on Today at 10:41:43 AM »
First Paulus I want to apologize to you sir   ::smile::

I do think you are being defensive. You said you liken your kneeling before an image of Mary, for you is like kissing a picture. You don't worship the picture but it is an expression of love, and for you that is fine. My point was the general population of Catholics may and probably don't have that same thinking. What does the catholic church let them believe. It is already obvious that there must not be a clear picture given based on your own personal thinking which you have state hear.  No I don't think you are lying.
48
If a plane is flying from New York to Los Angeles and another plane is flying from Los Angeles to New York and both planes left their airports at the same time and are traveling at the same speed, if the earth is rotating 1,000 miles per hour as Atheistic Scientists claim it is, why do both planes make it to their destination at the same time?


That's pretty silly conjecture since the atmosphere of the earth (where jets travel) is also turning with the earth at the same rate of speed.

You are telling me the atmosphere moves at the same rate of speed in both directions at the same time.


Nope. It's moving in one direction.


Then, how do the planes in the scenario above make it to their destinations at the same time?


Because they are also travelling at the same speed of the earths rotation, you are extremely confused here, but this is elementary physics taught at the 7th or 8th grade level.

You said the earth only rotates one direction, yet, the planes in the scenario above are going in different directions; how can both planes get to their destination airport at the same time?


They travelled the same speed and the same distance, that is how. The earths rotational speed does not affect things that are contained within the earths atmosphere.

If the earth is moving at 1,000 miles per hour in only one direction, the planes in the scenario above would get to their destination airport at different times, unless the earth is not moving.

You don't want to account for the earth moving 1,000 miles per hour and how it would throw off the timing of the plane in the opposite direction.
You're just not getting it  ::doh::


The sky where the planes are travelling is moving at the same speed as the ground.
49
Theology Forum / Re: Not T.U.L.I.P., Not Arminius
« Last post by Curtis on Today at 10:35:19 AM »
Barnabas93,

I agree with Salvation, Election, Universal Atonement. I agree with grace with no strings attached and as far as much as God has given Jesus and the opportunity for salvation to everyone. but salvation does come with strings attached, it requires our response and agreement, because God will not save people by force.

Brother Red, I do agree that if God left man to his own ways he would never seek for God or even want him. As Jesus said, "he that committeth sin is a slave to sin" When you are a slave you can not do what you want, nor do you have any free choices to do anything. Thank God, the Lord knew this from the beginning and in his grace toward men, that did not deserve it God revealed himself to him so that man could have a free will choice to either choose life, or death, blessing or cursing. This is what it means I have chosen you, and you have not chosen me. God chose man to have salvation if he so desired it.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
50
Catholic Forum / Re: Why are there so many rules in the Catholic Church?
« Last post by Jd34 on Today at 10:19:19 AM »
Quote from: Jd34
I'm not implying negative on anything. Paul did make Christianity attractive to the Greco-Roman world. Paul held that neither Gentile nor Jewish followers of Jesus were bound by the hundred rituals and rules that constitute Mosiac Law.  So by Paul taking  Jewish culture out if the equation open the door for and made Christianity appealing for Rome...

Just to start-- is this still negative to you? Are you going to require evidence of this? I'm just starting,

OK, that's good (if you are just referring to Paul's presentation of the gospel rather than changing the gospel) - an example with a reference to scripture.

Winsom, in a strange way you make me laugh..you remind me of a hard core skeptic and a conspiracy theorist at the same time... Lol... Please don't take offense at that... Its just that I am not a good communicator and after years of education and growth in the spirit I have peace in every aspect of my life. I don't want to feel that same kind of anguish that Peter and Paul must have felt during their disagreements. the effort that I would have to put in to clarifying my position on Catholicism or the Catholic Church is a mute point..Just know that I view the Catholic Church as a positive force. Any church or religion that glorify our Lord and Savior Christ I am good with...
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