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Christian Politics Forum / Re: Who do we blame now?
« Last post by TruthScientist on Today at 01:12:42 PM »
the first thing that needs to be understood my dear christian brother Jaime is that there is inequality.  deep and wide inequality...  inequality that puts some people at jeopardy of life's necessities: food, shelter etc...  not quality but period... 

the attitude I spoke to you of earlier which you automatically began a post with a phrase not unlike entitlements...  we are in a world brother where want and need is becoming more and more prevalent in and amongst us...  how do we love someone who has a need and we ignore it... 

because our priorities are self indulging first and we negotiate with ourselves all that the needy could have done to keep from getting poor...  then we become satisfied and sated that the command to love has been satisfied...
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Cuba
« Last post by TruthScientist on Today at 01:00:50 PM »
The spirit of cuba has many old wounds that will never be healed in 6 generations as it has not since the "revolution"... 

cuba has been made a monster and he fostered the soviet spirit over the island... 

cuba and castro have been very useful tools for America...  look further down at what games we played with south american dictators over the decades...  this was another...  castro was certainly a bad influence but it is almost like he was kept in there to have a little kid to thump his head every so often... 

over that time we could have either fostered revolt or something just as we have done all over the world at different times...  I don't put anything past this government behind closed doors...

my parents feel the same way about some of the doing in Africa...
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Cuba
« Last post by Victor08 on Today at 12:55:04 PM »
Treaty of Paris (1898)

The Treaty of Paris of 1898, 30 Stat. 1754, was an agreement made in 1898 that resulted in the Spanish Empire's surrendering control of Cuba and ceding Puerto Rico, parts of the Spanish West Indies, the island of Guam, and the Philippines to the United States. The cession of the Philippines involved a payment of $20 million from the United States to the Spanish Empire.[1] The treaty was signed on December 10, 1898, and ended the Spanish-American War. The Treaty of Paris came into effect on April 11, 1899, when the documents of ratification were exchanged.[2]
For almost a month, negotiations revolved around Cuba. The Teller Amendment to the U.S. Declaration of War with Spain made it impractical for the U.S. to annex the island as it did with Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines.[13] On first instance, Spain refused to accept the Cuban national debt of four hundred million dollars, but ultimately it had no choice. Eventually, it was agreed that Cuba was to be granted to the Cubans and the four hundred million dollar liability returned to Spain. It was also agreed that Spain would cede Guam and Puerto Rico to the United States.[14]

Did the U.S. give Cuba to the Cubans - no.

History of Cuba
On 2 March 1901, the U.S. Congress passed the Army Appropriations Act, stipulating the conditions for the withdrawal of United States troops remaining in Cuba following the Spanish–American War. As a rider, this act included the Platt Amendment, which defined the terms of Cuban-U.S. relations until 1934. It replaced the earlier Teller Amendment. The amendment provided for a number of rules heavily infringing on Cuba's sovereignty:

•   Cuba would not transfer Cuban land to any power other than the United States.
•   Cuba would contract no foreign debt without guarantees that the interest could be served from ordinary revenues.
•   The right to intervention in Cuban affairs and military occupation when the U.S. authorities considered that the life, properties and rights of U.S. citizens were in danger,
•   Cuba was prohibited from negotiating treaties with any country other than the United States "which will impair or to impair the independence of Cuba".
•   Cuba was prohibited to "permit any foreign power or powers to obtain…lodgement in or control over any portion" of Cuba.
•   The Isle of Pines (now called Isla de la Juventud) was deemed outside the boundaries of Cuba until the title to it was adjusted in a future treaty.
•   The sale or lease to the United States of "lands necessary for coaling or naval stations at certain specified points to be agreed upon". The amendment ceded to the United States the naval base in Cuba
(Guantánamo Bay) and granted the right to use a number of other naval bases as coal stations.

As a precondition to Cuba's independence, the United States demanded that this amendment be approved fully and without changes by the Constituent Assembly as an appendix to the new constitution. Faced with this alternative, the appendix was approved, after heated debate, by a margin of four votes. Governor Wood admitted: "Little or no independence had been left to Cuba with the Platt Amendment and the only thing appropriate was to seek annexation".[67]

In the presidential elections of 31 December 1901, Tomás Estrada Palma, a U.S. citizen still living in the United States, was the only candidate. His adversary, General Bartolomé Masó, withdrew his candidacy in protest against U.S. favoritism and the manipulation of the political machine by Palma's followers. Palma was elected to be the Republic's first President, although he only returned to Cuba four months after the election. The U.S. occupation officially ended when Palma took office on 20 May 1902.[68]
Theology Forum / Re: Are we turning from sound teaching?
« Last post by TruthScientist on Today at 12:50:56 PM »
It's sad, but it's going to get worse.

I believe before it's over, a true follower of Christ will find himself as it was with the 1st century Christians. We will be persecuted to the death.

They already are in the middle east and parts of India.

yeah Africa, the Syrian churches, egypt, iran, iraq all over the middle east as you say...  you can see why the church in the US is going through what we are...  We have let God down so after what He did to get the suffering church in the middle ages relief in what came about in America although the history of America is fraught with great sins also...  But this shows how God can lift a people who were no people to heights...
Apologetics Forum / Re: Daniel 8 and the Bible's cosmology
« Last post by Doug on Today at 12:41:52 PM »
In the first century A.D. the Roman architect Vitruvius wrote a Latin treatise on architecture, that included a section about astronomy. In the English translation of his book, there are numerous references to the firmament. Curiosly, however, the word firmament does not occur in the original version. In those days, "firmament" did not refer to the sky. It could refer to a prop, or a support. It was also used for "a strong point of an argument." The use of the word 'firmament' in the translation of Genesis 1 was implemented by Jerome, who probably wished to avoid saying "And God called the caelum caelum" in vs. 8.

 The Ten Books on Architecture
 Translated by Morris Hicky Morgan, Late Professor of Classical Philology, Harvard University
 Book IX


 1. It is due to the divine intelligence and is a very great wonder to all who reflect upon it, that the shadow of a gnomon at the equinox is of one length in Athens, of another in Alexandria, of another in Rome, and not the same at Piacenza, or at other places in the world. Hence drawings for dials are very different from one another, corresponding to differences of situation. This is because the length of the shadow at the equinox is used in constructing the figure of the analemma, in accordance with which the hours are marked to conform to the situation and the shadow of the gnomon. The analemma is a basis for calculation deduced from the course of the sun, and found by observation of the shadow as it increases until the winter solstice. By means of this, through architectural principles and the employment of the compasses, we find out the operation of the sun in the universe.
2. The word "universe" means the general assemblage of all nature, and it also means the heaven that is made up of the constellations and the courses of the stars. The heaven revolves steadily round earth and sea on the pivots at the ends of its axis. The architect at these points was the power of Nature, and she put the pivots there, to be, as it were, centres, one of them above the earth and sea at the very top of the firmament and even beyond the stars composing the Great Bear, the other on the opposite side under the earth in the regions of the south. Round these pivots (termed in Greek πὁλοι) as centres, like those of a turning lathe, she formed the circles in which the heaven passes on its everlasting way. In the midst thereof, the earth and sea naturally occupy the central point.
3. It follows from this natural arrangement that the central point in the north is high above the earth, while on the south, the region below, it is beneath the earth and consequently hidden by it. Furthermore, across the middle, and obliquely inclined to the south, there is a broad circular belt composed of the twelve signs, whose stars, arranged in twelve equivalent divisions, represent each a shape which nature has depicted. And so with the firmament and the other constellations, they move round the earth and sea in glittering array, completing their orbits according to the spherical shape of the heaven.
4. They are all visible or invisible according to fixed times. While six of the signs are passing along with the heaven above the earth, the other six are moving under the earth and hidden by its shadow. But there are always six of them making their way above the earth; for, corresponding to that part of the last sign which in the course of its revolution has to sink, pass under the earth, and become concealed, an equivalent part of the sign opposite to it is obliged by the law of their common revolution to pass up and, having completed its circuit, to emerge out of the darkness into the light of the open space on the other side. This is because the rising and setting of both are subject to one and the same power and law.
5. While these signs, twelve in number and occupying each one twelfth part of the firmament, steadily revolve from east to west, the moon, Mercury, Venus, the sun, as well as Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, differing from one another in the magnitude of their orbits as though their courses were at different points in a flight of steps, pass through those signs in just the opposite direction, from west to east in the firmament. The moon makes her circuit of the heaven in twenty-eight days plus about an hour, and with her return to the sign from which she set forth, completes a lunar month.
6. The sun takes a full month to move across the space of one sign, that is, one twelfth of the firmament. Consequently, in twelve months he traverses the spaces of the twelve signs, and, on returning to the sign from which he began, completes the period of a full year. Hence, the circuit made by the moon thirteen[259] times in twelve months, is measured by the sun only once in the same number of months. But Mercury and Venus, their paths wreathing around the sun's rays as their centre, retrograde and delay their movements, and so, from the nature of that circuit, sometimes wait at stopping-places within the spaces of the signs.
7. This fact may best be recognized from Venus. When she is following the sun, she makes her appearance in the sky after his setting, and is then called the Evening Star, shining most brilliantly. At other times she precedes him, rising before day-break, and is named the Morning Star. Thus Mercury and Venus sometimes delay in one sign for a good many days, and at others advance pretty rapidly into another sign. They do not spend the same number of days in every sign, but the longer they have previously delayed, the more rapidly they accomplish their journeys after passing into the next sign, and thus they complete their appointed course. Consequently, in spite of their delay in some of the signs, they nevertheless soon reach the proper place in their orbits after freeing themselves from their enforced delay.
8. Mercury, on his journey through the heavens, passes through the spaces of the signs in three hundred and sixty days, and so arrives at the sign from which he set out on his course at the beginning of his revolution. His average rate of movement is such that he has about thirty days in each sign.
9. Venus, on becoming free from the hindrance of the sun's rays, crosses the space of a sign in thirty days. Though she thus stays less than forty days in particular signs, she makes good the required amount by delaying in one sign when she comes to a pause. Therefore she completes her total revolution in heaven in four hundred and eighty-five days, and once more enters the sign from which she previously began to move.
10. Mars, after traversing the spaces of the constellations for about six hundred and eighty-three days, arrives at the point from which he had before set out at the beginning of his course,[260] and while he passes through some of the signs more rapidly than others, he makes up the required number of days whenever he comes to a pause. Jupiter, climbing with gentler pace against the revolution of the firmament, travels through each sign in about three hundred and sixty days, and finishes in eleven years and three hundred and thirteen days, returning to the sign in which he had been twelve years before. Saturn, traversing the space of one sign in twenty-nine months plus a few days, is restored after twenty-nine years and about one hundred and sixty days to that in which he had been thirty years before. He is, as it appears, slower, because the nearer he is to the outermost part of the firmament, the greater is the orbit through which he has to pass.
11. The three that complete their circuits above the sun's course do not make progress while they are in the triangle which he has entered, but retrograde and pause until the sun has crossed from that triangle into another sign. Some hold that this takes place because, as they say, when the sun is a great distance off, the paths on which these stars wander are without light on account of that distance, and so the darkness retards and hinders them. But I do not think that this is so. The splendour of the sun is clearly to be seen, and manifest without any kind of obscurity, throughout the whole firmament, so that those very retrograde movements and pauses of the stars are visible even to us.
12. If then, at this great distance, our human vision can discern that sight, why, pray, are we to think that the divine splendour of the stars can be cast into darkness? Rather will the following way of accounting for it prove to be correct. Heat summons and attracts everything towards itself; for instance, we see the fruits of the earth growing up high under the influence of heat, and that spring water is vapourised and drawn up to the clouds at sunrise. On the same principle, the mighty influence of the sun, with his rays diverging in the form of a triangle, attracts the stars which follow him, and, as it were, curbs and restrains those that precede, not allowing them to make progress, but obliging them to retrograde towards himself until he passes out into the sign that belongs to a different triangle.
13. Perhaps the question will be raised, why the sun by his great heat causes these detentions in the fifth sign from himself rather than in the second or third, which are nearer. I will therefore set forth what seems to be the reason. His rays diverge through the firmament in straight lines as though forming an equilateral triangle, that is, to the fifth sign from the sun, no more, no less. If his rays were diffused in circuits spreading all over the firmament, instead of in straight lines diverging so as to form a triangle, they would burn up all the nearer objects. This is a fact which the Greek poet Euripides seems to have remarked; for he says that places at a greater distance from the sun are in a violent heat, and that those which are nearer he keeps temperate. Thus in the play of Phaethon, the poet writes: καἱει τἁ πὁρρω, τἁγγυθεν δ εὑκρατ ἑχει.
14. If then, fact and reason and the evidence of an ancient poet point to this explanation, I do not see why we should decide otherwise than as I have written above on this subject.
Jupiter, whose orbit is between those of Mars and Saturn, traverses a longer course than Mars, and a shorter than Saturn. Likewise with the rest of these stars: the farther they are from the outermost limits of the heaven, and the nearer their orbits to the earth, the sooner they are seen to finish their courses; for those of them that have a smaller orbit often pass those that are higher, going under them.
15. For example, place seven ants on a wheel such as potters use, having made seven channels on the wheel about the centre, increasing successively in circumference; and suppose those ants obliged to make a circuit in these channels while the wheel is turned in the opposite direction. In spite of having to move in a direction contrary to that of the wheel, the ants must necessarily complete their journeys in the opposite direction, and that ant which is nearest the centre must finish its circuit sooner, while the ant that is going round at the outer edge of the disc of[262] the wheel must, on account of the size of its circuit, be much slower in completing its course, even though it is moving just as quickly as the other. In the same way, these stars, which struggle on against the course of the firmament, are accomplishing an orbit on paths of their own; but, owing to the revolution of the heaven, they are swept back as it goes round every day.
16. The reason why some of these stars are temperate, others hot, and others cold, appears to be this: that the flame of every kind of fire rises to higher places. Consequently, the burning rays of the sun make the ether above him white hot, in the regions of the course of Mars, and so the heat of the sun makes him hot. Saturn, on the contrary, being nearest to the outermost limit of the firmament and bordering on the quarters of the heaven which are frozen, is excessively cold. Hence, Jupiter, whose course is between the orbits of these two, appears to have a moderate and very temperate influence, intermediate between their cold and heat.
I have now described, as I have received them from my teacher, the belt of the twelve signs and the seven stars that work and move in the opposite direction, with the laws and numerical relations under which they pass from sign to sign, and how they complete their orbits. I shall next speak of the waxing and waning of the moon, according to the accounts of my predecessors.



 1. According to the teaching of Berosus, who came from the state, or rather nation, of the Chaldees, and was the pioneer of Chaldean learning in Asia, the moon is a ball, one half luminous and the rest of a blue colour. When, in the course of her orbit, she has passed below the disc of the sun, she is attracted by his rays and great heat, and turns thither her luminous side, on account of the sympathy between light and light. Being thus summoned[263] by the sun's disc and facing upward, her lower half, as it is not luminous, is invisible on account of its likeness to the air. When she is perpendicular to the sun's rays, all her light is confined to her upper surface, and she is then called the new moon.
2. As she moves on, passing by to the east, the effect of the sun upon her relaxes, and the outer edge of the luminous side sheds its light upon the earth in an exceedingly thin line. This is called the second day of the moon. Day by day she is further relieved and turns, and thus are numbered the third, fourth, and following days. On the seventh day, the sun being in the west and the moon in the middle of the firmament between the east and west, she is half the extent of the firmament distant from the sun, and therefore half of the luminous side is turned toward the earth. But when the sun and moon are separated by the entire extent of the firmament, and the moon is in the east with the sun over against her in the west, she is completely relieved by her still greater distance from his rays, and so, on the fourteenth day, she is at the full, and her entire disc emits its light. On the succeeding days, up to the end of the month, she wanes daily as she turns in her course, being recalled by the sun until she comes under his disc and rays, thus completing the count of the days of the month.
3. But Aristarchus of Samos, a mathematician of great powers, has left a different explanation in his teaching on this subject, as I shall now set forth. It is no secret that the moon has no light of her own, but is, as it were, a mirror, receiving brightness from the influence of the sun. Of all the seven stars, the moon traverses the shortest orbit, and her course is nearest to the earth. Hence in every month, on the day before she gets past the sun, she is under his disc and rays, and is consequently hidden and invisible. When she is thus in conjunction with the sun, she is called the new moon. On the next day, reckoned as her second, she gets past the sun and shows the thin edge of her sphere. Three days away from the sun, she waxes and grows brighter. Removing further every day till she reaches the seventh, when her distance from the sun at his setting is about one half the extent of the firmament, one half of her is luminous: that is, the half which faces toward the sun is lighted up by him.
4. On the fourteenth day, being diametrically across the whole extent of the firmament from the sun, she is at her full and rises when the sun is setting. For, as she takes her place over against him and distant the whole extent of the firmament, she thus receives the light from the sun throughout her entire orb. On the seventeenth day, at sunrise, she is inclining to the west. On the twenty-second day, after sunrise, the moon is about mid-heaven; hence, the side exposed to the sun is bright and the rest dark. Continuing thus her daily course, she passes under the rays of the sun on about the twenty-eighth day, and so completes the account of the month.
I will next explain how the sun, passing through a different sign each month, causes the days and hours to increase and diminish in length.


 1. The sun, after entering the sign Aries and passing through one eighth of it, determines the vernal equinox. On reaching the tail of Taurus and the constellation of the Pleiades, from which the front half of Taurus projects, he advances into a space greater than half the firmament, moving toward the north. From Taurus he enters Gemini at the time of the rising of the Pleiades, and, getting higher above the earth, he increases the length of the days. Next, coming from Gemini into Cancer, which occupies the shortest space in heaven, and after traversing one eighth of it, he determines the summer solstice. Continuing on, he reaches the head and breast of Leo, portions which are reckoned as belonging to Cancer.
2. After leaving the breast of Leo and the boundaries of Cancer, the sun, traversing the rest of Leo, makes the days shorter, diminishing the size of his circuit, and returning to the same[265] course that he had in Gemini. Next, crossing from Leo into Virgo, and advancing as far as the bosom of her garment, he still further shortens his circuit, making his course equal to what it was in Taurus. Advancing from Virgo by way of the bosom of her garment, which forms the first part of Libra, he determines the autumn equinox at the end of one eighth of Libra. Here his course is equal to what his circuit was in the sign Aries.
3. When the sun has entered Scorpio, at the time of the setting of the Pleiades, he begins to make the days shorter as he advances toward the south. From Scorpio he enters Sagittarius and, on reaching the thighs, his daily course is still further diminished. From the thighs of Sagittarius, which are reckoned as part of Capricornus, he reaches the end of the first eighth of the latter, where his course in heaven is shortest. Consequently, this season, from the shortness of the day, is called bruma or dies brumales. Crossing from Capricornus into Aquarius, he causes the days to increase to the length which they had when he was in Sagittarius. From Aquarius he enters Pisces at the time when Favonius begins to blow, and here his course is the same as in Scorpio. In this way the sun passes round through the signs, lengthening or shortening the days and hours at definite seasons.
I shall next speak of the other constellations formed by arrangements of stars, and lying to the right and left of the belt of the signs, in the southern and northern portions of the firmament.


 1. The Great Bear, called in Greek ἁρκτος or ἑλἱκη, has her Warden behind her. Near him is the Virgin, on whose right shoulder rests a very bright star which we call Harbinger of the Vintage, and the Greeks προτρυγητἡς. But Spica in that constellation is brighter. Opposite there is another star, coloured, between the knees of the Bear Warden, dedicated there under the name of Arcturus.
2. Opposite the head of the Bear, at an angle with the feet of the Twins, is the Charioteer, standing on the tip of the horn of the Bull; hence, one and the same star is found in the tip of the left horn of the Bull and in the right foot of the Charioteer. Supported on the hand of the Charioteer are the Kids, with the She-Goat at his left shoulder. Above the Bull and the Ram is Perseus, having at his right... with the Pleiades moving beneath, and at his left the head of the Ram. His right hand rests on the likeness of Cassiopea, and with his left he holds the Gorgon's head by its top over the Ram, laying it at the feet of Andromeda.
3. Above Andromeda are the Fishes, one above her belly and the other above the backbone of the Horse. A very bright star terminates both the belly of the Horse and the head of Andromeda. Andromeda's right hand rests above the likeness of Cassiopea, and her left above the Northern Fish. The Waterman's head is above that of the Horse. The Horse's hoofs lie close to the Waterman's knees. Cassiopea is set apart in the midst. High above the He-Goat are the Eagle and the Dolphin, and near them is the Arrow. Farther on is the Bird, whose right wing grazes the head and sceptre of Cepheus, with its left resting over Cassiopea. Under the tail of the Bird lie the feet of the Horse.
4. Above the Archer, Scorpion, and Balance, is the Serpent, reaching to the Crown with the end of its snout. Next, the Serpent-holder grasps the Serpent about the middle in his hands, and with his left foot treads squarely on the foreparts of the Scorpion. A little way from the head of the Serpent-holder is the head of the so-called Kneeler. Their heads are the more readily to be distinguished as the stars which compose them are by no means dim.
5. The foot of the Kneeler rests on the temple of that Serpent which is entwined between the She-Bears (called Septentriones). The little Dolphin moves in front of the Horse. Opposite the bill of the Bird is the Lyre. The Crown is arranged between the shoulders of the Warden and the Kneeler. In the northern circle are the two She-Bears with their shoulder-blades confronting and their breasts turned away from one another. The Greeks call the Lesser Bear κυνὁσουρα, and the Greater ἑλικη. Their heads face different ways, and their tails are shaped so that each is in front of the head of the other Bear; for the tails of both stick up over them.
6. The Serpent is said to lie stretched out between their tails, and in it there is a star, called Polus, shining near the head of the Greater Bear. At the nearest point, the Serpent winds its head round, but is also flung in a fold round the head of the Lesser Bear, and stretches out close to her feet. Here it twists back, making another fold, and, lifting itself up, bends its snout and right temple from the head of the Lesser Bear round towards the Greater. Above the tail of the Lesser Bear are the feet of Cepheus, and at this point, at the very top, are stars forming an equilateral triangle. There are a good many stars common to the Lesser Bear and to Cepheus.
I have now mentioned the constellations which are arranged in the heaven to the right of the east, between the belt of the signs and the north. I shall next describe those that Nature has distributed to the left of the east and in the southern regions.


 1. First, under the He-Goat lies the Southern Fish, facing towards the tail of the Whale. The Censer is under the Scorpion's sting. The fore parts of the Centaur are next to the Balance and the Scorpion, and he holds in his hands the figure which astronomers[268] call the Beast. Beneath the Virgin, Lion, and Crab is the twisted girdle formed by the Snake, extending over a whole line of stars, his snout raised near the Crab, supporting the Bowl with the middle of his body near the Lion, and bringing his tail, on which is the Raven, under and near the hand of the Virgin. The region above his shoulders is equally bright.
2. Beneath the Snake's belly, at the tail, lies the Centaur. Near the Bowl and the Lion is the ship named Argo. Her bow is invisible, but her mast and the parts about the helm are in plain sight, the stern of the vessel joining the Dog at the tip of his tail. The Little Dog follows the Twins, and is opposite the Snake's head. The Greater Dog follows the Lesser. Orion lies aslant, under the Bull's hoof; in his left hand grasping his club, and raising the other toward the Twins.
3. At his feet is the Dog, following a little behind the Hare. The Whale lies under the Ram and the Fishes, and from his mane there is a slight sprinkling of stars, called in Greek ἁρπεδὁναι, regularly disposed towards each of the Fishes. This ligature by which they hang is carried a great way inwards, but reaches out to the top of the mane of the Whale. The River, formed of stars, flows from a source at the left foot of Orion. But the Water, said to pour from the Waterman, flows between the head of the Southern Fish and the tail of the Whale.
4. These constellations, whose outlines and shapes in the heavens were designed by Nature and the divine intelligence, I have described according to the view of the natural philosopher Democritus, but only those whose risings and settings we can observe and see with our own eyes. Just as the Bears turn round the pivot of the axis without ever setting or sinking under the earth, there are likewise stars that keep turning round the southern pivot, which on account of the inclination of the firmament lies always under the earth, and, being hidden there, they never rise and emerge above the earth. Consequently, the figures which they form are unknown to us on account of the interposition of the earth. The star Canopus proves this. It is unknown to our[269] vicinity; but we have reports of it from merchants who have been to the most distant part of Egypt, and to regions bordering on the uttermost boundaries of the earth.


 1. I have shown how the firmament, and the twelve signs with the constellations arranged to the north and south of them, fly round the earth, so that the matter may be clearly understood. For it is from this revolution of the firmament, from the course of the sun through the signs in the opposite direction, and from the shadows cast by equinoctial gnomons, that we find the figure of the analemma.
2. As for the branch of astronomy which concerns the influences of the twelve signs, the five stars, the sun, and the moon upon human life, we must leave all this to the calculations of the Chaldeans, to whom belongs the art of casting nativities, which enables them to declare the past and the future by means of calculations based on the stars. These discoveries have been transmitted by the men of genius and great acuteness who sprang directly from the nation of the Chaldeans; first of all, by Berosus, who settled in the island state of Cos, and there opened a school. Afterwards Antipater pursued the subject; then there was Archinapolus, who also left rules for casting nativities, based not on the moment of birth but on that of conception.
3. When we come to natural philosophy, however, Thales of Miletus, Anaxagoras of Clazomenae, Pythagoras of Samos, Xenophanes of Colophon, and Democritus of Abdera have in various ways investigated and left us the laws and the working of the laws by which nature governs it. In the track of their discoveries, Eudoxus, Euctemon, Callippus, Meto, Philippus, Hipparchus, Aratus, and others discovered the risings and settings of the constellations, as well as weather prognostications from astronomy through the study of the calendars, and this study they set forth and left to posterity. Their learning deserves the admiration of mankind; for they were so solicitous as even to be able to predict, long beforehand, with divining mind, the signs of the weather which was to follow in the future. On this subject, therefore, reference must be made to their labours and investigations.
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Cuba
« Last post by BondServant on Today at 12:20:11 PM »
Something in between, Jarrod.  In my humble opinion, it is a mistake.  There has been no reform in Cuba.

I hope congress succeeds in blocking this effort.
Theology Forum / Re: Scripture
« Last post by Jd34 on Today at 12:19:56 PM »
Says in Genesis "the Earth was without form and void" meaning it was just empty space? God spoke the Earth into creation. Could have God somehow used the energy that was there and created the Earth by just speaking to that energy?

And on the net is there a downloadable KJV of the bible with hyperlinks are a study bible as well? Paul

pljames, God can do whatever God wants and by any means He wants to do it so I think any idea that we have about how He made things is surely a possibility but still- nothing but speculation.

Bibles?  There are many bibles. Personally, I prefer the KJV.  But, I would encourage you or anyone else to learn about where and how the bible came about.  The history of the bible and the agendas of those "in charge" will answer a lot of your questions.

Stay firm and keep your faith-- not every preacher is right and not every scripture means exactly how "we" may read it. Ask for Gods guidance when reading and you will see words live.

Its a hard learning process but I am telling you with The Lord, you will be enlightened.  ::smile::
Theology Forum / Re: Are we turning from sound teaching?
« Last post by BondServant on Today at 12:17:46 PM »
It's sad, but it's going to get worse.

I believe before it's over, a true follower of Christ will find himself as it was with the 1st century Christians. We will be persecuted to the death.

They already are in the middle east and parts of India.
Christian Singles Forum / Re: "Why don't men pursue women anymore?"
« Last post by Cally on Today at 12:12:13 PM »
I always have believed the art of being a woman was to bring out the best in a man.


There is indeed an art of being a woman involving bringing out the best in a man. And it's probably right to say that it's old-fashioned. I appreciate a lot of what you're saying.

Here's my thought for you, just to consider. Look at the wife of Proverbs 31. The woman is so busy it scares me. A man is busy too. What's the big fat hairy deal which gender's work yields the paycheck?

At the very least, surely you can acknowledge the fact that feminism is, and always has been, about replacing men in the workforce with women. Despite how much money women make these days, feminists' latest gripe is women being a minority in STEM fields, which can also be phrased: too many men are succeeding compared to women!

So can you acknowledge, then, that expecting the man to be the money-maker, regardless of how proper the situation is or not, is not something that will be doable for many men out there in today's world? It may not be what you want, but can you acknowledge that we have to live with that reality?
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Cuba
« Last post by Victor08 on Today at 12:12:09 PM »
The Cuban's and their children who had their property and way of life stolen by the Castro's  are angry.

I was born in Cuba.
My father had a business in Havana and one day Fidel's henchmen came in and told him to leave, his business now belonged to the "Revolucion".
So in December 1960 we packed everything we could and left our homeland.
My parents vowed they would never return while Fidel was still in power. They are both dead now but Fidel is still alive.

Am I angry? Yes

President Kennedy pulls air support for Bay of Pigs invasion

Posted May 08, 2006 by publisher in Cuban History

A news story last month focused on the failed attempt to overthrow Fidel Castro and the fiasco at the Bay of Pigs, Cuba, 45 years ago. Here is my story of the perfidious performance by the United States in not fulfilling promised obligations to others.

It begins on April 15, 1961. A U.S. aircraft carrier was on station 30 miles south of the Bay of Pigs; its four escort destroyers were already shelling the beach. We were supposed to support the invasion by air and sea. The invasion force, four deep-draft ships coming from a staging area in Nicaragua, were poorly suited to the shallow Bay of Pigs.

We had Cuban leaders on board. We had eaten with them, we had laughed with them. We became friends.

The carrier had three attack squadrons: two Skyhawk squadrons and one Sky Raider squadron, accompanied by a radar plane detachment and helicopters. The squadrons were going to attack previously briefed and designated areas, based on CIA information and some information from the Cubans on board. A radar plane was to be launched to provide continuous information as airborne control if necessary.

The launch was to begin. The jets were up on the forward catapults. All was ready. Then the word was passed from Primary Flight Control that they had just received word that we could not support the invasion. We were told that President Kennedy said the political climate in Washington was such that we would have to abort our help.

We cried. How could we do this?
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