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41
I  can't understand how people who can believe that a virgin actually gave birth to a baby boy, that this same boy grew up and made wine from water, fed thousands of people on a few loaves of bread and some fish, raised some folks from the dead, and then he himself was crucified and also rose from the dead - just can't seem to believe in the "Real Presence" of this same man in the Holy and Sacred thing called the Eucharist, that he himself told us who follow him, that it was him, and we should partake of him, in remembrance of him. ??? 


I have no problem with Catholics believing that the eucharist is the literal body of Christ.
I do not agree with the doctrine, but I am convinced that it doesnt matter at all.

Holy Communion is not about whether the bread becomes meat, or the wine becomes blood. Holy Communion is about remembering the sacrifice on the cross.

What I do take offence with is that the RCC claims exclusive possession of the celebration by only including those they feel are in union with themselves and with their Pope.
That has never been an aspect of Holy Communion, and as Jesus showed us He even broke bread with Judas.

The RCC may believe all she wants, bread becoming meat and wine becoming blood, but as long as she refuses to implement and interpret the meaning of the celebration correctly...all of this is of no value whatsoever.

You are right AVZ. Its all in the spirit and faith of the partaker whether it by transubstantiation or done in remembrance. The Problem comes when the Catholic church says unless it is done their way you cannot be saved. So all others are condemned by their legalism.   I also agree with Soterion that John 6 has nothing to with the last Supper.   
42
Theology Forum / Re: Do evil spirits ever die?
« Last post by Red Baker on Today at 07:42:07 AM »
We are given no information one way or the other concerning the genesis or terminus of demons. 

Fallen angels were made by God in the beginning and they fell with the devil.  They will end up in the lake of fire per the end of Revelation. But demons? who knows?

I would say yes.  The lake of fire is the second death for all spirits, both man and devils. There they shall perish. Do a word search on PERISH, and tell me what it means. 

Dave, what differences do you make between demons and fallen angels?  To my understanding, they are one and the same.
43


Hi there
You say she is reluctant to go for lunch, so have you actually asked her? If you havent then do so, and if you have and she said no then you have to accept her answer.

The most respectful thing a young man can do toward a young woman, is to tell her of your desires, and then ask her if you can ask her father if you two can see each other.   I just said the same thing to my oldest grandson, and he said that to a young girl, who came back and said: WOW, that's very respectable toward me and my family.  Young men and women are way too young to to be able to detect what it takes to make a commitment that could last for fifty years, or more!  Parents in the last 100 years have been left to watch what will happen, instead of being a major factor in their children's decisions concerning courtship. After twenty years of Marriage~ all three of my daughters are still with their husbands and doing quite well.  The young men had to come through me to see my daughters, or, they would not have seen them.  Most young men treat girls as if they have a right to them, and that's against God's way.  It is the father's responsibility to protect his daughters from a life of misery as much as he can. 


Yeah, or even better...you can ask her if your father can meet up with her father so they can have a beer and haggle over the dowry... :)

Beer sounds good, and the dowry even better.  :)
44
Dave, I plainly said "Personally"~which means that I must allow liberty toward my fellow believers.

Very good then.  I was not quite sure what you meant by "Personally."
45
Ya know - we have strayed afar from what the OP asked.  Star Night - have we adequatly answered your question?
46
Do you think a woman should be able to further her education after the primary and high school years?

I love both you and Judy as sister in the faith, so please do not take any thing personal.

My daughters finished at Clemson University, but lived at home since we are only thirty minutes away~and they went on to get a doctorate and another master in accounting~so I am not agaisnt them doing that, and by all means they should if they desire to do so.

Quote
In order to do so, women *have* to leave, because there are no universities in our small town.

Sister, if you and your husband are in agreement, then you have that liberty from God.  But I had the same liberty to not let any boys have free access, without godly restraints with my girls~and I set the rules, not them.

Quote
Some families are not nurturing and safe, and *have* to be escaped from.
   

I understand, and agree.  But still, young men must not take the liberty do do as they desire, without going through the proper authority, with their blessings and approval. 

Oh, I wasn't taking it personally. I just was wondering about girls that are from very small towns and what the thought would be there.

I appreciate your "personally" comment.  :) That makes it one of a Romans 14 issue, rather than hard and fast "you aren't obeying the Word" kinda stand.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts
47


Hi there
You say she is reluctant to go for lunch, so have you actually asked her? If you havent then do so, and if you have and she said no then you have to accept her answer.

The most respectful thing a young man can do toward a young woman, is to tell her of your desires, and then ask her if you can ask her father if you two can see each other.   I just said the same thing to my oldest grandson, and he said that to a young girl, who came back and said: WOW, that's very respectable toward me and my family.  Young men and women are way too young to to be able to detect what it takes to make a commitment that could last for fifty years, or more!  Parents in the last 100 years have been left to watch what will happen, instead of being a major factor in their children's decisions concerning courtship. After twenty years of Marriage~ all three of my daughters are still with their husbands and doing quite well.  The young men had to come through me to see my daughters, or, they would not have seen them.  Most young men treat girls as if they have a right to them, and that's against God's way.  It is the father's responsibility to protect his daughters from a life of misery as much as he can. 


Yeah, or even better...you can ask her if your father can meet up with her father so they can have a beer and haggle over the dowry... :)
48
Theology Forum / Re: A Body Adapted For Eternity
« Last post by DaveW on Today at 07:21:58 AM »
Buff - you made an interesting point here:
Quote
Apparently, God conferred upon these three an instant revelation, confirming that the two men talking with Jesus were Moses and Elijah.

In Matthew's account of the resurrection, he says others came up from the grave as well:

Matt 27.50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. 52 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Was this also by revelation, that the people recognized who those resurrected people were?
49
OK - finished it.  Good talk.

I found the call ins (like the 14 yo boy) very moving.  But it reminds me of a joke told in Jewish (including Messianic) circles:

The Rabbi is in his office when the secretary tells him there are three unhappy congregants who want to see him.  So he invites them in.

One of them starts off: "In many synagogues, everyone stands for the Shema** "
"Yes, that is their tradition." replied the Rabbi.

Another continued:  "And in other synagogues, everyone sits for the Shema."
"Yes, that would be their tradition." replied the Rabbi.

The third man pipes up:  "But in our synagogue, half of the people sit, the other half stand, and then everyone gets into an argument over which is correct."
"And that would be OUR tradition." replied the Rabbi.

It is called in Judaism "local custom." It is important.  It is clear that M Angelica is of one opinion and others have differing tradions.  As you say, what is important is the reverance in your heart.  Kavanah [intent] it is called in Judaism.

** Shema is the ancient declaration of God's unity from Deut 6.4

Yes , the boy is very impressive .  ::smile::

I like the joke . It says a lot .  ::thumbup::
50
Personally, young women should not leave home, until they are married. 

What is this, another way to twist CENI into a caricature of itself?

What you cite in scripture is by way of EXAMPLE, not COMMAND. It should not be elevated to the level of command.

Dave, I plainly said "Personally"~which means that I must allow liberty toward my fellow believers.
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