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Theology Forum / Re: Faith ??
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 13:05:37 »
Michael said...

No sir. I am aware that a word may not always mean exactly the same thing. What I'm saying of faith, is in the context and confined in what was presented in the OP, that is, what faith is in the subjective sense, that which is related to that which most Christians hold as that which one must have to be saved. So, I took the OP matter on faith as separate from the objective sense of the word. But, since you have brought up in your previous posts, verses that have the word "faith", regardless of what sense it is used, that I addressed the word faith in the sense as it was used in the verse, which if not the subjective sense, is obviously out of the context of the OP.

First, the word pistis is NOT in the subjunctive case in Rom. 12:3.

Second, when a word is filled by the speaker with a different definition depending upon how he is using it, it matters not what case it is in...indeed, seldom does particles of speech matter in that case either.

If I use the word "crown" as a metonym for the "king," then it wouldn't matter about particles or case, because the word is being used figuratively, not literally.

It is the same in the text in question: faith is not being used in its normative definition, it is being used in a style of figurative language for giftings and personal knowledge of the gifts one has been given for the overall good and benefit of the Body.

As usual, Red, you argue out of your own bias, and not out of the Scriptures. You have many things to learn, but since you refuse to learn anything of Scriptural value, trying to teach you something is like trying to get a dead horse to pull the plow.

I just quoted the scriptures showing you that you are wrong, yet you say, "...not out of the Scriptures", as if I didn't quote the scriptures. Hellur? So incredibly stubborn. Let us see how well it goes for you when you stand before the Lord thinking that the Law has been done away with, "...depart from me you workers of LAWLESSNESS".
Theology Forum / Re: Faith ??
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 13:00:07 »
Michael said...

Quote from: SwordMaster on Yesterday at 12:53:23

The meaning of the phrase is exactly that...the meaning of the PHRASE, not a single word in the phrase...

I do understand what you are saying. But we are talking about the word faith there, not the phrase "measure of faith".

Same difference. The phrase and the way Paul uses the word changes Paul's intended meaning for that word. The sooner you understand how people use words the better off you will be.

In Romans 12:3, "For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.", the word faith there does not mean Christian knowledge, which you say is, "knowledge of Christian doctrines and practices, which is demonstrated in the context of the verse".

I think your reading comprehension is off today, Michael. I quoted extensively from the scholars of Greek, including Zodhiates, a native Greek speaker, from the complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament. THEY said that the word faith in Rom. 12:3 means "christian knowledge," and pardon me for saying so...but I will take the word of an educated Greek speaker in NT Greek over your opinion practically every time.

You are out-gunned and out-matched...it would be to your cavalier to come to your senses and stop arguing out of your ignorance of the language.

Paul was not talking about how much Christian knowledge each individual Christian have, but of faith, the measure of faith, that God has assigned to each.

No, he wasn't, because God does not give people faith unless it is the Spiritual Gift of Faith that one who is already a believer can receive if that is the Spiritual Gift that the Spirit decides to give to that individual person. You also greatly misinterpret Paul when he says that God gives the individual knowledge of Christian gifts to individuals...he is not saying that God gives faith to each person, as is obvious in the sentence. He is saying that, just like in I Cor. 12, that He gives each individual person a specific portion of a specific aspect of gifting...which is why he then breaks it down by saying...

Romans 12:4-8
4 For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function,
5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.
6 Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith;
7 if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching;
8 the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

Your bias is blinding you to what Paul is talking about.

I will not argue with you further. The facts are there, and if you choose to ignore them because you want to defend your bias, rather than conceding to the truth of what is right before you, then so be it.

A word of caution...if you continue in this way, not only will you not come to the truth of the Scriptures, but you are walking a dangerous path to self-destruction through false belief.

Nay, that's not the manner in which it occurs....God chooses who to quicken to life and who does not receive this quickening.It is NOT that a ting seed is planted, but a NEW CREATION is created after the image of Jesus Christ in righteousness, knowledge and true holiness. This is deep and very enlightening, but what do we expect from such spirits....just what we have gotten again!

Red, you obviously watch too many hours of Highlander...you always speak of quickening, and in a most unbiblical way.

As for spirits, I have the Spirit of God, it is quite plain that you, however, have abandoned Him.

One part of Calvinistic doctrine (I believe) that I agree with is ...
God chooses who will receive the tiny seed of faith enabling him to believe in Jesus and His gospel.
Dost thou agree with this? Yea or nay.
Let not any of us get sidetracked and spend 200 posts on this.

No, Samuels, I don't believe that because Scripture doesn't teach it.

Those who do believe that, like Red, take mistranslated passages out of the KJV and don't apply any of the principles of Biblical interpretation to them. They take what they read in black and white, but do not research them because they fit into their false ideologies of religious creeds.

Faith is belief, and both are choices of one's will. I choose to believe and choose to place faith in Christ, or I choose not to. God gives no one anything that has to do with eternal life because if He did, then He would be making puppets void of genuine love for Him. God wants genuine love, not puppets on strings that He has to carry.


It is not about who can outsmart the other person, but WHO has the truth. You BOTH are wrong. He is correct when he said: But he's wrong when he said these words: Jesus perfectly fulfilled the righteousness of God's law in thought, word and deed from conception to death FOR HIS PEOPLE. He left not one thing to be fulfilled. SwordMaster, you are wrong by laboring (in vain I might add) to say that the Law of Christ is something different than the law of God. I have proven this to you before, so I will not do so again. Christians are dead to the law as far as it having any claims upon us through the body of Jesus Christ...Even though this is true, we LOVE, DELIGHT in the law of God in our holy mind of the NEW MAN..... for there is NO law that is more holy, good and spiritual than the law of God which our Lord fulfilled perfectly FOR US. The law of God IS GOOD IF one knows how to use it lawfully, just as Paul said to us. Which neither of you two know how to do so, you both

As usual, Red, you argue out of your own bias, and not out of the Scriptures. You have many things to learn, but since you refuse to learn anything of Scriptural value, trying to teach you something is like trying to get a dead horse to pull the plow.

If God has bound all to be disobedient that he may demonstrate his mercy,

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. (Romans 11:31 [NIV])

How much more can he not unbind to cause obedience?

In Him you were also circumcised in the putting off of your sinful nature… (Colossians 2:11 [BSB])

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:18 [NIV])

according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you. (1 Peter 1:2 [ESV])

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 [ABP])

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. (John 8:34-36 [NIV])

You have no understanding concerning the Law of God, hence why you are "lawless", and neither do you have understanding of the righteousness CAUSED by God through his holy spirit, which then leads to,

Actually, CG, I have a far superior understanding of the law than you do, as you demonstrate above...almost. Because most of what you script together above is nonsense...there is no point to any of it, you are babbling, trying to piece together something from your own mind that makes no sense to anyone else. I understand the Law because I understand covenant, and you don't understand either.

We know that every one being engendered of  God does not sin; but the one engendered of  God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18 [ABP])

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9 [KJV])

No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. (1 John 3:6 [NASB])

Yes...but you are again Frankensteining passages together that have no application to the discussion. In short, you are arguing out of ignorance again.

Singles Sexual Discussion / Re: Marriage without sex
« Last post by ohcalidatex on Yesterday at 12:36:20 »
As I've thought about this more I think my issue is both. I don't know that I fear intimacy so much as I have been unable to bond with someone. I believe I suffered from attachment disorder as a baby/child and no amount of counseling or prayer has yet healed me from that. My entire life I have been unable to truly bond. So sex for me was largely emotionless. It was never the emotional bonding experience it should have been. Add to that now not having the physical pleasure and it's pretty much an act I can only do in service to a spouse. That said I don't think I have any business getting married though as I cannot bond. I can love in a caring way wanting someone's good but that love is very limited in terms of emotions and affection. Affection is not something I naturally give much. I can try and remind myself to be affectionate but it has never been natural. I think that is because I can't bond. If you don't have deep feelings for someone then you are not likely to be affectionate. So I can care but that caring does not easily create bonding.

I do pray the Lord will deliver me from this.
The clear word of God is in the Bible and in the full human and full God of His one and only Son Jesus. The Christ, Lord, and Savior of the heaven and universe.
Didn't Bush deliberately mispronounce Saddam's name - just to mess with his head?

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