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41
Churches of Christ Forum / Re: Just a good experience.
« Last post by chosenone on Yesterday at 11:11:07 AM »
Why would you not accept people from the same denomination as you? Or even believers from a different denomination?
You really probably have had to at one time contracted that particular disease, yourself, to understand.  Thank God He can cure it.
 

Honestly I have never had any issues with any other denominations, and have been to so many events and meetings and groups that have included people from many different churches/denominations. When you are Gods children all that earthy nonsense is suppased and all you notice is that connection that you have in the spirit.

I was just surprised that e.r.m was surprised that they had things in common and considered themselves one, and they are even from the same denomination.  ::headscratch::
42
Red said...


Quote
He was not speaking against you standing for what you believe to be the truth, but the manner of you belittling and speaking down on others abilities, and mainly their natural abilities.  No one, including myself would ever ask you to stop exposing certain types of men, who would use religion as a personal gain; who corrupt the gospel of Jesus Christ, and who, by their words mock truth.  We desire all men to make a stand decidedly for the gospel of Jesus Christ, with all boldness. Being neutral, so as not to offend, is sinful, and in truth offends Jesus Christ.
   

Then if that is what you truly hold to, then you will stop behaving in the same manner, won't you...

Shall we try again?

Blessings


43
Theology Forum / Re: Is doing good good enough
« Last post by Alan on Yesterday at 11:02:45 AM »
Matthew 7:21-23


Those were people that believed, did good works, but had no relationship with God. The answer is certainly that believing and just doing good deeds is NOT enough.
44
Theology Forum / Re: The Cross of Christ
« Last post by Alan on Yesterday at 10:57:15 AM »
Maybe I'm missing something, but why is it so difficult for some to believe that some saved believers can be so deceived that they turn away from Christ and jeopardize their salvation? Seems to occur quite frequently in this day and age, I've even heard one-time-believers state that they no longer accept what is contained within the pages of the Bible.
45
Apologetics Forum / Re: Daniel 8 and the Bible's cosmology
« Last post by Doug on Yesterday at 10:57:03 AM »
Daniel's prophecy that the Sanctuary of God, the starry heaven or the universe, will be cleansed 2,300 evening mornings or days after his vision in chapter 8, demonstrates that Christ is the source of man's light and understanding. As the apostle John wrote of Jesus: "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." [John 1:9]

Only when 23 centuries had elapsed from the date of Daniel's vision, were the secrets of the structure of the heavens made known and understood, because of the discoveries and publications of astronomers and mathematicians of various nations, most of whom were devout Christians.

In 1587 Francisco Valles (1524-1592), physician to Phillip II of Spain, published Se Scripta sunt physice in libris sacris, siive sacra Philosophica in Turin.

V. Navarro Brotóns writes:

[Continuity and Change in Cosmological Ideas in Spain Between the Sixteenth and Seventeeenth Centuries: The Impact of Celestial Novelties. In: Change and Continuity in Early Modern Cosmology, edited by Patrick Boner. Springer Science & Business Media, 2011.  p. 38]
 
   [url=http://books.google.ca/books?id=xPq0Bv5Kz4EC]http://books.google.ca/books?id=xPq0Bv5Kz4EC[/url]
 
Quote
Valles tried to demonstrate, by means of an exegesis of various scriptural passages, that these passages contain and express very clearly the true representation of the world, which coincide to a large extent with Aristotlean natural philosophy, just as Valles understands it. In the course of a  commentary on the second chapter of Ecclesiastes, he mentions the "nova" of 1572 and criticizes the "astrologers who maintain that its appearance signals a new creation." He says that some even go so far as to suggest that it was a comet produced in the heavens themselves, even though the heavens, in reality, were incapable of alteration.


Brotóns continues, discussing the work of other Spanish scholars who wrote on cosmology: [p.38]

Quote
Diego de Zuñiga was involved in the condemnation of heliocentrism by the Roman Inquisition in 1616, whereby his book, In Job Commentaria (Toledo, 1584) was expurgated along with Copernicus' De Revolutionibus. In his book, Zuñiga effectively tried to prove that Copernicus's theory was not contrary to the Scriptures. In a later text entitled Philosophis prima pars (Toledo, 1596) Zuñiga commented on the various themes of traditional cosmology and revised his ideas on Copernicus' theory, reaching the conclusion that the movement of the earth was impossible, "in accordance with what was said by Aristotle and other most expert astronomers and philosopher." Several allusions to the "nova" of 1572 appear in this work, in the course of discussion of stars and comets. Zuñiga says it was observed in several places in Spain, France, Belgium, Austria, and Italy, and adds that the astronomers had not found any discernable parallax in their determination. He recognizes that if it were a comet formed in the heavens, its appearance would have constituted a strong argument against the solidity of the spheres and the incorruptibility of the skies, but he adds that astrologers and physicists denied that it was a comet: "Since they claim that it [was] a celestial body, indeed, a new star, rather than a comet, I could [claim] that it was produced by a force greater than nature." Zuñiga agreed with those authors that believed it was a star whose appearance and disappearance was not a natural event, but a miracle, supernatural and beyond man's comprehension. With this emphasis on potentia dei absoluta, Zuñiga avoided the serious cosmological implications of the phenomenon.

 Due to his level of prestige and despite his criticism of Aristotle, Jerónimo Muñoz (c. 1520-c. 1591) was offered in 1578 the mathematics and Hebrew chairs at the University of Salamanca, with a salary ten times greater than in Valencia. Muñoz stayed in Salamanca until his death in 1592. His students, who occupied the mathematics and astronomy chairs in Salamanca and Alcala, carried on his teachings. One of the most loyal of his followers was Diego Péres de Mesa, professor of mathematics and astronomy at the University of Alcala from 1586 and responsible for the same subjects in Seville, in a chair created by the City Council (Consjo Municipal) at the request of the Parliament (Cortes) in Madrid in collaboration with the House of Trade (Casa de la Contracion) in Seville (along with the University of Navigators (Universidad de Marrantes).
     
 In his Comentarios de Sphera (1596), written for the classes he gave in Seville, Pérez de Mesa defines the purpose of cosmography and indicates that this subject is a "science almost mixed with philosophy and threrefore resolves many wonderful questions of philosophy." such as whether or not there is a sphere of fire in the concave surface of the (sphere of the) moon, whether it is possible that the earth moves, whether the stars move "by themselves or together with spheres, being fixed upon them," and whether the substance of the sky is quintaessential and incorruptible. Evidently, like Muñoz, Pérez de Mesa considers that astronomers are perfectly entitled to make statements about natural philosophy, and he devotes the first part of his commentary to a discussion of cosmological themes. He denies that there is a sphere of fire. He also denies the existence of and necessity of celestial spheres, mentioning the works of Munoz and the preface of Jean Pena to his book of Perspective. Against the doctrine of the incorruptibility of heavens, Pérez de Mesa mentions the observations and conclusions of Munoz on the supernova of 1572. He  devotes an entire chapter to the motion of the earth, although he only refers to its motion of rotation. For Pérez de Mesa, the answer to this question could no be one of absolute certainty, but rather of possibility.
     
  p. 40.
 
  Following Muñoz's death, the teaching of mathematics and astronomy was carried out by his two students, Gabriel Serrano and Antionio Nuñez Zamora. The latter occupied the chair from 1598 to 1612. In 1610, Nuñez Zumora published in Salamanca a treatise on comets, Liber de comets, in quo demonstratur Cometam anni 1604 fuisse in firmamento. Here, Nuñez Zamora paid special attention to the supernova of 1604. He must have written the book around 1605, the year of the first censure and the year which appears at the bottom of the first book of the work. The treatise contains three books in Latin and one in Spanish. The first book concerns the nature of comets, their material and their form. Nuñez Zamora agrees that they are formed by burning exhalations and refers to the sulphur of the alchemists and Paracelsus. Their cause is related to planetary conjunctions, though Nuñez Zanora also considers the moon's strength important. As for their final cause, apart from their character as signs, comets contribute to the conservation of the universe and purge the earth of poisonous exhalations.
     
 The second book shows that comets can be created in the sky, an opinion, Nuñez Zamora asserts, which has caused much controversy among writers. The followers of Aristotle in particular have accused astronomers of being hasty when suggesting that something can be created or destroyed again in the heavens. Against these criticisms, Nuñez Zamora defends the demonstrative character of the mathematical disciplines and the certainty with which mathematicians establish their conclusions. His demonstration of the celestial nature of comets is naturally based on the absence of parallax.


In the period following Copernicus, until the mid-eighteenth century, Spanish scholars who sought to defend the Scriptures against the heliocentric view relied on portions of Scripture that were introduced as corruptions in the second century BC and later, by Antiochus IV and his agents, apostate Jews who admired Greek cosmology and religion. These cosmological corruptions are revealed by Daniel's prophecy in chapter 8, as explained in this thread.

Doug
46
Theology Forum / Re: Is doing good good enough
« Last post by mclees8 on Yesterday at 10:54:10 AM »
I believe I feel you mclees8, but to be sure I understand...  can you tell me good enough for what, think I know but what to be sure.  I think this is a good thread...

But I will go on record as saying... No it is not...  what did a prophet say about all our righteousness (which certainly include 'acts of goodness and kindness toward men) is as...?

It's not about good enough for What but for who. Another example.  In a little town a few miles north of me an acquaintance of mine and another man felt led of the lord to feed the Homeless in that area as a means t share Christ.  They rented a store front and made meals for them. My friend used her guitar to play Christian hymns  while they ate. They loved it and she would teach about Jesus between songs.

Now there is more to this story but to get to the point. Here we have two believers who are led to do good because they are Christians but not just to do good for the sake of good. Would it have been good enough that they just fed them and sent them on their way and Jesus was never lifted up to them. They just came every day for a hand out and that was it. Is that Good enough for professing believers .  Listen if I just wanted to make myself feel good by doing good what good is that? Christians are not just a bunch of do gooders that think doing good deeds is witness enough for Christ. But sad to say this is what many believers do and this ministry that started out sharing the word nocked on the wrong doors for help and ended up just being humanitarian? What witness for Christ is it then?  Does not the world do as much?
47
Preterist Forum / Hello, is there anybody out there?
« Last post by raggthyme13 on Yesterday at 10:51:18 AM »
Where have all the Preterists gone? Come back!! I'm missing the most interesting discussions.  ::nodding::
48
Churches of Christ Forum / Re: Just a good experience.
« Last post by Willie T on Yesterday at 10:43:37 AM »
Why would you not accept people from the same denomination as you? Or even believers from a different denomination?
You really probably have had to at one time contracted that particular disease, yourself, to understand.  Thank God He can cure it.
49
Christian Women Forum / Re: Advice for getting married
« Last post by chosenone on Yesterday at 10:39:15 AM »
If you are part of a church family, they may be willing to help with food and setting up. My husband and I had a small wedding with a small reception with just very close family, our children of course and close friends. It didn't cost much at all, and we married in the end of November. Snow was forecast, it had snowed that week, but it didn't actually come for the day which was good.   
50
Prayer Requests Online and Praise Reports / Re: Anxiety is draining me
« Last post by geronimo on Yesterday at 09:52:16 AM »
 Hi perfectrose, and welcome to Grace Centered Forums. Always nice to have another believer.
 I've had some dark periods in my life similar to what you describe and ended up taking medication for a few years. Presently I have not used meds in several years and although life sometimes heads in the negative direction, there is a way, I've discovered that helps me tremendously, and although not being a man of letters, I'll try and share it. Was going to PM you, but I believe every one of us go through adverse situations from time to time and it may be of help to someone else.
 There are things in life that are absolutes and cannot mix with their opposites. Light and dark, right and wrong, positive and negative, etc. Positive and negative thoughts cannot occupy the same space and when we dwell on negative things it turns into depression and the like. So, if we just start counting our blessings, and we all have them, it's impossible for negative thoughts to exist in our minds. Not so easy sometimes, but it works. From waking in the morning and a fresh day of light and life and breath and what God has furnished for our comfort and joy, to the time we go to sleep at the end of the day. There are blessings all around us. If we just notice and take note of them, we won't have time to dwell on the unsettling things. I know it sounds too simple to work, but if you'll try it, you may be pleasantly surprised. We have so much to be thankful for that, at times, we take for granted. God lives in your praises and gratitude is praise.
 Hope this helps and isn't somehow contrary to your counseling. I'm glad that's going well.
 Continued blessings.
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