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Apologetics Forum / Re: Which translation of the Bible do you prefer?
« Last post by notreligus on Yesterday at 11:24:03 PM »
The KJV Bible should not be 'toyed with'. Those who created other bibles, are in trouble.

But, the KJV is a created one...

YES, By the anointed Children of God (the descendants of the lost tribes of Israel.

I don't believe for one second that you have any proof that KJV was made by descendants...

Uh, yes, I have proof, but you don't. I AM an Israelite descendant from the lost tribes of Israel. God showed me this. My Father was from Norway, and my mother was from Scotland.

You are a British Israelist.   Are you sure that Arnold Murray or Gene Scott didn't convince you of this before they died?   

As far as I'm concerned with your being a British Israelist (and hopefully not part of the Identity Movement), there's not one word you could say here that has merit.   You're trying to save yourself by claiming to be a Jew.   That's no new invention.   That's called covenantal nomism.   Paul said that no one would be saved because of their racial heritage.  God is not a racist but I strongly suspect that you are.   
Calvinism / Re: Why would a Calvinist say this?
« Last post by gbzone on Yesterday at 11:19:35 PM »

I did not say what I did to offend you, only to remind you that you should do more studying of this subject before speaking.  Search the NT and you will see that Paul rebuked believers for their ignorance concerning certain subjects.  I do believe that you labor to be faithful base upon the light that you have, and that within itself, is a good thing.  Receive what I said in love, and not hatred.

In Christian Love,


I make no claims to infallibility (though some foolishly do)  Yet you do not show  me my error save assert your perception that I was rambling.

I was rejecting the idea  that people are prewired for salvation  when there is nothing in scripture  to uphold that .
Indeed  did not Paul in Ephesians say to those who were BORNagain that we are" WERE as all men sons of disobedience"

Pray tell  did not God create man?
Did  God create man to live or to die?
For darkness  or for light?
What was the will of man  when He said "Let us make man in our own image" if not that "man  shall not LIVE  by every tree that was good to eat but by every Word that  procceeded out of the mouth of God"?
 How is it then  that they who claim  they understand the teaching of Calvin do not understand  the teaching of scripture?
Indeed deny it .
and those who reject  the teachings of Calvin reject the teachings of scripture  on the foundations of the others errors?

How is it then you cannot follow a sequential  argument on the understanding that some who would or could read it had some spiritual understanding; but which you perceived was rambling .

At what point then was I wrong ?
I would suggest  that you take a look at the list  of subjects in this and  many other so called Christian forums and see the volumes of ignorance and the great dearth of understanding. With  more questions  of the  " ye hath God said" variety than any  desire for the light .

Why should I be offended as your post simply made me look again at what I had written  .I am offended  however by much that is written here and elsewhere  that men have conjoured up out of the imaginations of their own heart  at best  and quote  scripture as rocks hurled at each other .
and was deeply offended with the  assertion and the lie  that men are prewired for salvation or damnation.
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God .Is it not also  written that we are born in sin and shapen in iniquity? and of a corruptable seed? Then who is excluded?
and if none  are excluded  then all are doomed to be damned as every seed is predestined to bring forth fruit after its own kind.
Therefore all who are born of Adams seed are predestined to bring forth corruption unto death.
For know ye not the wages of sin is death?
How is it then you do not know  that" you MUST be BORNagain" of what seed? "Of the incorruptible seed which is the Word of God "
How then do you not know  that  as the law is for one seed so it is for all  and if a corrupted seed is predestined  to bring forth corruption unto death .So an  inccorruptable seed is predestined  to bring forth  righteousness  unto life .

I hold that ALL the  'ISMS'  that bedevil the church (literally)  are  ALL wrong .
Taking  but A truth or doctrine  and seeking to understand  all scripture by it .
The errors  of one camp who do so then are used as justifircation of the errors of the ones who oppose them.
For either  all the ISMS have two  opposing camps or else they are split into a myriad of splinter and "subtle"  differences . But all of the strife confusion and self righteousness is of the flesh the world and the devil.

While I have not studied Calvin much  I have studied the scriptures more .But this  I did find out from his writing ,He used the principle  of a sequential  argument  and used such scripture  as was needed and pertinent to the subject in hand as a foundation to his argument and to further it along. That  argument needed to be followed.
Given the English  of it I found that very hard as the thinking of the reformers was of a highly trained  mind .
I do not have their training  to follow their argument . But the Bible  on the other hand  I have been trained in.
and there I see that Calvin followed the principle  of Pauls  method  of proving  his case exemplified to perfection  in the letters of Romans and Hebrews in particular .
I doubt very much  if modern 'theologians' have ever  followed Calvins arguments and understood each part as he went . For not many follow the arguments  of Paul either. Assuming like Saul of Tarsus  that if you know  Greek and Hebrew you will and can understand the scriptures as they are to be understood.
But what  said the Lord?
"When the  Spirit  of truth shall come  HE will LEAD us into all truth"  No man arrives at the truth  by jumping to conclusions . Nor indeed does he arrive at or come to a knowledge of the truth if he is not willing to be LED to it by HIM who is the good and faithful shepherd of our souls.
and going by the many divisions  strifes and discord over even the MILK  of the Word let alone the little MEAT  that is preached . It is a wonder that while  many claim to know the truth , Seem unable  to lead anyone else by the way they came to it.
But simply make great assertions that it si the truth  and others claim some great 'revelation' that it is.
 if a man has by Him who lead us into all truth  cannot lead others  the same way he was led .Then while  all children of God  can teach  the basics   or should  be able to be teachers  of the milk of the Word (even as Pauls said)
In other matters they are less qualified .

So when  people often say to me I am an ignorant man but do not then show me where I am ignorant  or in error .
but simply assert that I am . You will not be surprised when I am not moved by their perceptions  of me .

In Christ

in Christ 

Theology Forum / Re: “From Ruin to Resurrection” [Book Review]
« Last post by notreligus on Yesterday at 11:15:32 PM »
I don't know Al Maxey but I have communicated with him.   I wrote to find out if he were related to Tibbs Maxey who was the first president of The College of the Scriptures, a Restoration Movement Bible college that was founded to educate black preachers.  He's not related to Tibbs.   I knew Tibbs' son, Tommy.   Al Maxey is a fine Christian man but he gets a little heat for being a change agent in the Churches of Christ.   
Christian Politics Forum / Re: Why I vote Democrat
« Last post by kensington on Yesterday at 11:10:47 PM »

I am socially conservative, and tend to be somewhat fiscally conservative.  However, I will not vote for the Republicans.  I vote Democrat because the Republican party is a shill for big business.  They do not care about the working man.  They also pay lip service to moral causes such as pro-life, and use it to sucker conservative types i.e. they never do anything about the moral issues.  I don't think the Democrats are great, but I think they are the lesser of two evils, as the Republican party, is the party of greed and of war.

I support your right to this view and not be judged for it.   Republican should not be equated with Christian.   

I wonder how many people have taken a good look at Roe v. Wade.   Wade was a Democrat fighting in the court against abortion.  "Roe" was a Republican operative.   

Ronald Reagan told George, Sr. that he was going to have to get with the program and as far as the public was concerned he was pro-life if he wanted to be his running mate.   The Bush family are and have always have been pro-abortion but all Junior has to do is claim that he is a Christian and the blinders are put on.   

We need infrastructure programs like FDR put in place.  The Republicans in Congress voted those to be illegal.   That's why all that Obama can do is talk about them.

My grandfather once owned a large farm where one of the state prisons is built.   During the Great Depression he had the door slammed in his face as he was about to walk into the bank and draw-out his money.  He lost his money and his farm.  He still had to feed seven children.  The Republicans were in office when the banks were closed.   People have memories.   My 94 year old aunt is a godly woman and I hold her in the highest regard as a fine person and a Christian.   I love her dearly.   She would not vote for a Republican if you held a gun to her head. 

During the last Presidential campaign most Christians were saying to vote for a man who follows the teachings of a man who was a scoundrel and ripped-off people with his magic rocks.   How was that a better choice?   

I'm sorry, but for all your whining about how bad you think Republicans are or were or whatever, we are not better off for having Obama in the office rather than Romney. 

Least bad?  Absolutely.  I voted or Romney and I'd do it again.  The other choice was Obama... and look where he has brought us.  My family way back for generations have been hard core Democrats, you couldn't even talk about politics with them, it was insane.  But, the voting booth is private and not my father or my grandmother tells me how to vote my conscience or what I believe is right. If my vote only served to cancel out one vote for Obama... it served me well.
Prayer Requests Online and Praise Reports / Re: Please pray for Linda
« Last post by chosenone on Yesterday at 11:10:00 PM »
Will do jdm. This must be vary hard for you as well.
Preterist Forum / Re: A thought experiment for futurists...
« Last post by notreligus on Yesterday at 11:07:02 PM »
I was thinking today about the repeated claims futurists make regarding NT prophecy and how it is written to us, living in America, 2,000 years after it was written.  So let's put this idea to the test, shall we?

Question 1: Did Christ assert and the apostles believe that the entire physical universe was going to end, as many futurists interpret NT prophecy today?

Question 2: Did the apostles believe that the end of the entire physical universe was going to happen while some of them still lived, and did they write as much in their letters?

Question 3: If the answer to the first two questions is "Yes", how is it possible they could be writing to a group of people living 2,000 years after they believed the physical universe would end, as many futurists proclaim they did?

In other words, if they believed and wrote that the entire physical universe would end when Christ returned, as futurists would have us believe, and they wrote this believing they would live to see it, then either nothing they wrote in the NT was written to us, or nothing about the futurist view of scripture is true.

Which is it, folks?

I don't know where you've gotten your information but I think you've made up most of it by embellishing that which is true.

Have you read Peter's writings?   He never said that the universe would end.   He said that this old Earth was going to be burned and new one recreated.   Our destination is on the New Earth.   

Don't sweat it.   Unless you are works-salvationist you can still be all wrong about your final destination and have confidence that God will put you where you're supposed to be.   If it makes you happy you post millennials can keep on trying to rebuild this cursed old Earth and see if you can do better than God.   
General Discussion Forum / Re: Any advice gratefully received
« Last post by chosenone on Yesterday at 10:53:29 PM »
it was a new experience to be approached in the street by people talking about Jesus. This really doesn't happen much in England!

They travel the whole world on their missions. I've met them too. They even learnt the language just for their mission (like 20-year old boys).

I haven't attended church for too long - I've just been reading the New Testament on Sundays & praying every day. I know I need to find a church & meet some like-minded people.
Keep reading the New Testament and praying. I wouldn't expect much of church if I were you.

Church is very important. We are told to meet together with other believers and be part of the body. One part of the body cant say to another 'I don't need you' Paul says.  None of us are supposed to be a lone believer, far too easy to get deceived and go off track. I have seen it many times. 
We are supposed to be a family not isolated.
In my opinion trusting church is the easy way to be deceived and go off track.

Churches aren't the body of Christ.

They shall put you out of the synagogues: (John 16:2)

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
(2nd Peter 2:1-2)

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
(Matthew 7:15)

You don't need church, and if you depend on it it is even very dangerous.

You can find God and have a great relationship with God all on your own. regardless of what you said

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)

I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. (Prov. 8:17)

Hebrews 10v25
We should not stop gathering together with other believers, as some of you are doing. Instead, we must continue to encourage each other even more as we see the day of the Lord coming. 

1 corinthans 12 v20
but now there are many members, but one body. 21And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

 Nearly all the people who have come to this forum in deep deception, have been people who have cut themselves off from other believers. Either because others in churches have challenged their beliefs and they didnt like it, or because they don't want to be be accountable to those who God has placed in the body for that purpose. Its usually pride that is responsible.
There are many Bible believing churches around if you look, which are led by godly men. 
General Discussion Forum / Re: Any advice gratefully received
« Last post by notreligus on Yesterday at 10:50:06 PM »
I'll keep this as brief as I can... I was raised & baptised Roman Catholic as a boy, lost touch with my faith in my teens & early twenties (distractions of the world, stupidity etc) before praying to ask Jesus into my life at age 26. Since then I have had a definite sense of being loved, guided, blessed & protected through life's highs & lows, & I now consider myself as simply a Christian.
I am now 36. I recently encountered some Mormons in my neighbourhood who seem to be decent, gentle people. They gave me the book of Mormon, talked about all kinds of things I had never heard of concerning the origins of their church, & seem very keen for me to join them & be baptised. My thoughts were that Jesus said all we truly need to live a Christian life is to love God, & love our neighbour as ourselves. Why do I need anything more? They told me that there are 3 levels of heaven, & right now I am heading for the 2nd level, & if I want to reach the highest level where Jesus is I need to join them.
Before this I only knew of the Mormons by name & knew nothing about them. I'm confused by this sudden fountain of new information! There seem to be many knowledgable people on this forum, & I would be very interested in any opinions about this. I appreciate I must seem very naive. Maybe I am!

Yes, Mormons are nice folks.   If you are a survivalist they are good sources for guns and storage food.   They are ready for Armageddon.   They are true Israel and everyone else are Gentiles.   

They believe that Jesus is the brother of Lucifer.  Thus He is not divine.  They fit every description of a cult.   

Sydney Rigdon wrote the Book of Mormon.   To show the Smith Brothers' appreciation for his work Hyrum Smith raped Sydney's daughter.   Hyrum was known to be obsessed with sex.   Joseph moved to Kirtland, Ohio after he was run out of the state of New York.  They were going to jail him if he did not leave.   He had ripped-off many people by charging them to give advice on their financial futures with his magic rocks.   He met Sydney Rigdon at Kirtland.   Rigdon had formerly been an associate of Alexander Campbell and often accompanied him on horseback to Campbell's preaching events.   

I strongly urge you to read the book Under The Banner of Heaven.  I hope you have a strong stomach because some of the horrors performed by the Mormons are hard to take.    It is claimed that only the ultra-conservatives practice polygamy but that is a lie.   The moderates also practice polygamy but it is those who are higher up in the food chain who do.  The group is very secretive.   I listened to an ex-Mormon give his testimony and he mentioned this book.   He said that he thought the book was a bunch of lies and set out to disprove it, but in doing so he found that everything in the book was true.   He left the Mormon church afterward.   

The Mormons have five large Temples at various locations which are considered to be like the one which will be in Jerusalem in the future.   They practice secret rites at those locations.   The Mormons have offered to give Israel millions of dollars to rebuild "their" Temple.   They have smaller replica temples.   There is one where I live.   It is surrounded by an iron fence.   

Read the book before you get involved, but the best choice is to stay away.   Any group that teaches a wrong Christ should be avoided like a plague.   
Theology Forum / Re: Evolution
« Last post by Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Yesterday at 10:42:00 PM »
I've come to believe as the Jews teach - that Genesis 1 is the story of the formation of the country of Israel, rather than the earth.  The product of a lot of study into ancient writings.

FWIW, the story of the physical creation does appear in the Bible.  It's in Job, a book which is older than Genesis.


I find this hard to believe...when God said, "Let there be light" I don't think He was making the country of Israel...particularly since Israel did not come about until many generations later. Genesis, despite what lense of interpretation the Jews might work from, is a record of the creation, and I think it a bold statement indeed for someone to deny that fact...especially given all of the details and information we have been given in Genesis.

Job 38 has some details of creation, but not the whole picture...and the later chapters which you claim tells the creation story really doesn't have anything to do with creation, at least I do not count animal migration as part of creation, unless by it one refers to how the original animals were created with migratory instincts. Genesis does give us the account of how the Jews came about, but that is not all that it gives. It tells us how God called into existence all of this physical cosmos, including life...especially the lives and creation of the first man and woman, whom even Jesus acknowledged as fact and not metaphorical entities.

Actually... you're right, I misspoke slightly there.  Genesis is the story of the beginning of the nation of Israel. But, chapter 1 and the first few verses of chapter 2 are not so.  Instead, they are a poem that has been prefaced to the Torah.

Movie Reviews Forum / Ragamuffin
« Last post by Alan on Yesterday at 09:52:55 PM »

Good movie based on the life of Christian worship star Rich Mullins. Definitely worth a watch.


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