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41
Theology Forum / Re: The baptism in Mt.28:19
« Last post by Michael2012 on Yesterday at 09:21:39 AM »
Baptism with water is referred as baptism of repentance.
Baptism is also said to be for repentance.  But you refuse to acknowledge that.

Please explain to me what you meant by your statement, to be clear on what it is you mean by it.
And the one who baptizes or immerses the individual, by performing upon the one being baptized, that outward physical act, to symbolize on the other hand the acts of the HS, one of which is the cleansing of the heart, the forgiveness of sins.
Baptism doesn't symbolize the acts of the Holy Spirit.  It is the act at which time God has promised to forgive sins. The physical act of being buried with Him through baptism into death, to be raised to walk in the newness of life. i.e., reborn, regenerated is symbolic of Jesus death. burial and resurrection.  It is the actual act of being regenerated by God that is symbolic of Jesus death. burial and resurrection.

Does water really wash away your sins or is it symbolic of the cleansing of the HS?
Does your rising out from the water really have you resurrected with Christ or is it symbolic of resurrecting with Him?

Even here, as you say " The physical act of being buried with Him through baptism into death, to be raised to walk in the newness of life. i.e., reborn, regenerated is symbolic of Jesus death, burial and resurrection, you speak of the physical act involved in the baptism with water as to be symbolic of the work of the HS in the believer.
 
42
End Times Forum / Re: The Wicked One Revealed
« Last post by Talking Donkey N22 on Yesterday at 09:14:32 AM »
39. HIS FOUNDATION IS BABYLON

Since Christ is the rock of foundation of the Christian Church, Satan decided to have the antichrist as the foundation of a Christian Church too, Babylon the great. The 7 heads of Rev 17 ALSO represent all the Popes just like the 7 churches also represent all the churches in Rev 1:20 and Rev chapters 2 and 3. This is from Rev 17:3,9 where we see the harlot church sitting on the antichrist just like the church of God sits on Christ (her foundation). The harlot sits on the beast who is the spirit of antichrist behind the throne of Peter (all the Popes, the Papacy). The antichrist is a spirit, a demon. That demon is just one (one beast is sent to the lake of fire) but that demon manifests itself as many (1Joh 2:18 and 1 Joh 4:3). That explains the many heads of the beast. That demon, the spirit of antichrist, has been hanging around for centuries as it is written:

1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
That's why the beast (which is one demon) has many heads.

40. HONORS THE GOD OF FORTRESSES

According to Daniel 11:38, the Antichrist will honor the god of fortresses, a new god that his ancestors did not know. There are two ways in which the pope fulfills this prophecy. The Roman god of fortresses is Diana, the virgin/mother goddess at a time.  Today the pope honors the virgin mother (Mary).

The goddess Diana is also the goddess of the hunters and is represented many times with bow and arrows. To understand the relationship between Antichrist and a hunter, the Bible says that the most remarkable hunter of all, Nimrod (Genesis 10: 8-12) was the one who founded Babylon. The phrase "Nimrod son of Kish (or Cush)" in Hebrew sums up 666. This is no coincidence. He was the one who founded the ancient city of Babylon and directed the construction of the tower of Babel. He was famous because he was a remarkable hunter. The antichrist is seen in the book of Revelation 6:2 riding a white horse (imitating Christ, Revelation 19:11) and with a bow in the hand, the hunter's weapon. Satan and his demons are described in the Bible as hunters and their weapon is the bow. See the following scriptures:

Psa 91:3 For he (God) will deliver you from the snare of the hunter and the pestilence.

Psa 11:2 For, behold, the wicked have prepared their bow, and have set the arrows on the rope, to pierce the upright in heart.

1Pe 5:8 Be sober and watch. Your adversary, the devil, like a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom to devour.

Eph 6:16 And above all, arm yourselves with the shield of faith, that you may quench all the darts (arrows) of fire from the evil one.

So the goddess Diana, being the goddess of the hunters and goddess of the fortresses, is largely identified with Satan. The great thing is the similarity between Diana and the idea that the Catholic Church of Mary, which according to the Vatican, is a mother who remained a virgin after giving birth. The pope was the one who declared the doctrine of the immaculate conception of Mary which raised her to a divine (goddess) level. The Pope truly honors (in modern form) the Roman god of fortresses (Diana). Popes in the Dark Ages were revealed to the world with their true character (hunters) when under their orders, about 68 million people perished in the name of God because they did not recognize the pope and the Catholic Church. From the book "The Other Side of Rome" by J. B. Wilder, Zondervan Publishing House, Grand Rapids, MI, page 153.

The second way in which the pope fulfills this prophecy is documented in the book "The Bad Popes," page 111 where he says that "The god the world saw the pope worshiped was the god of power" (referring to the power emanating from His throne).

MINOR HINT: READ BIRD WITH BLACK FACE

The color of the beast (the Antichrist) is red (scarlet) according to Rev 17:3. The term "beast" means animal. So, a scarlet beast is nothing but a red animal. The Antichrist is called the wicked one in 2Thes 2:8. The wicked one is pictured as birds in Matthew 13:4,19. When Moses returned from the presence of the Lord the Bible says that his face was shining (see Numbers 6:25). Psalm 104:15; Ecc 8:1; Mat 17:2 and Rev 10:1 indicate that God’s people will have their faces shinning with light. The opposite is true. In Joel 2:6 and Nahum 2:10 it says regarding the enemies of God: “and the faces of them shall gather blackness”. In those Scriptures God promised his enemies that their faces will be covered with blackness. So, combining all that, we have the Wicked One (Antichrist) pictured as red birds with black faces. What a coincidence! That is exactly what the birds called “cardinals” look like.

Many before me have proclaimed that the pope is the Antichrist. That is not new. Many before me have proclaimed that Rome (Catholic Church) is Babylon the Great. That is not new either. But what I am about to show you, you have not heard of it. I have been googling it for the past 23 years and apparently, I am the only one aware of the many historical facts that match the prophecies of the false prophet and the incredible timing of the fulfillment of prophecies. I am done with the salad and the filet mignon, here comes the lobster (the false prophet).

60 down, 20 more to go.

TD

43
Computer Assistance / computer trouble ?
« Last post by grams on Yesterday at 09:06:15 AM »

I am not sure if  it is because of the weather ?  [ we live in the farm area]

But even today when the  wind is kind of calm,  my computer  will not connect.
[well  I am here,  but things just stop , freeze ,  ?  ]
It  just seems like it started  a few months ago.

My husband  took care of these things , I know nothing but to be able to post

here and write  letters.  [ He  passed away a year ago ]

What  am I missing ?   
44
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by s1n4m1n on Yesterday at 08:59:11 AM »
So which is the Christian doctrine?

1) Original Sin - God's judgement upon Adam's sin effected him and all his posterity such that all are born separated from God and in need of His grace

or

2) Innate Purity of Mankind - God's judgement upon Adam's sin only effected him and was of no effect upon his posterity such that all are born pure and holy before God in no need of God's grace.

or

3) Original Grace - God did judge Adam and all his posterity but also justified everyone (in view of Christ's sacrifice) such that all are born pure and holy before God under God's grace and it is only an individual's subsequent personal sin which separates one from God.



Someone once argued to me of the third, which he called Original Grace, so I decided to include it.
45
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 07:44:11 AM »
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

In Adam, it says "all die", unlike in Christ, it does not say "all shall" die.

In Christ it says "all shall" be made alive, unike in Adam, it does not say "all lives". 

Do you take the "all" as absolute all or not? Does the "all" include babies?
Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death.  He is speaking about physical death and the resurrection (1 Cor 15:21). The righteous as well as the unrighteous will die and be resurrected.  The difference is not who will be resurrected; rather the difference will be the destination after being resurrected. 

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.(John 5:28-29)

IN Christ, ALL shall be made alive. You said that Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death, but is speaking about physical death and the resurrection.

Focusing on the  resurrection, Paul said "IN" Christ. Why? What similitude and resemblance will that be IN Adam? Is not what you say that all will be resurrected? The death you say Paul here speaks about is only physical, which you believe all will experience because all is created like Adam who naturally dies physically. So it has nothing to do really with anything that Adam did. What is the similitude of this with Christ on the resurrection of all or that all shall be made alive? It does not make sense, I'd have to say.

Michael, read the whole chapter.
46
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 07:42:17 AM »

Obviously life in heaven is as much physical as here on earth,
rofl  rofl  rofl  rofl
47
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by Michael2012 on Yesterday at 07:41:40 AM »
1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

In Adam, it says "all die", unlike in Christ, it does not say "all shall" die.

In Christ it says "all shall" be made alive, unike in Adam, it does not say "all lives". 

Do you take the "all" as absolute all or not? Does the "all" include babies?
Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death.  He is speaking about physical death and the resurrection (1 Cor 15:21). The righteous as well as the unrighteous will die and be resurrected.  The difference is not who will be resurrected; rather the difference will be the destination after being resurrected. 

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.(John 5:28-29)

IN Christ, ALL shall be made alive. You said that Paul is not speaking there about spiritual life and death, but is speaking about physical death and the resurrection.

Focusing on the  resurrection, Paul said "IN" Christ. Why? What similitude and resemblance will that be IN Adam? Is not what you say that all will be resurrected? The death you say Paul here speaks about is only physical, which you believe all will experience because all is created like Adam who naturally dies physically. So it has nothing to do really with anything that Adam did. What is the similitude of this with Christ on the resurrection of all or that all shall be made alive? It does not make sense, I'd have to say.


 
48
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by AVZ on Yesterday at 07:36:38 AM »
Ah that Tree of Life. The question you so far refuse to answer.

If the presence of the Tree in the garden is proof that Adam was a mortal being, then the presence of the Tree in heaven is also proof that people in heaven are mortal beings, right?
I suppose you could argue that case if you believe that life on earth and life in heaven are all the same.  I have not read of such a thing in the Bible, but perhaps you have.

Well it was you who made the claim that the presence of the Tree of Life proved that Adam was a mortal being. You even called it stupid of God if He had put the Tree of Life in the garden of Eden if Adam was not a mortal being. Logically it would be stupid to put the Tree of Life in heaven if people in heaven were not mortal beings.

So why not enlighten me. Besides the time is lasts, what is the difference between life on earth and life in heaven?
Are you serious?  Do you not realize there is a difference between the physical and the spiritual?  I understand that we can not fully understand either, and especially the spiritual.  But surely you realize that the two are not at all the same.

Obviously life in heaven is as much physical as here on earth, so tell me what is the difference?
And spiritual life on earth is the same as spiritual life in heaven, so tell me whats the difference ?
49
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by 4WD on Yesterday at 07:12:37 AM »
Ah that Tree of Life. The question you so far refuse to answer.

If the presence of the Tree in the garden is proof that Adam was a mortal being, then the presence of the Tree in heaven is also proof that people in heaven are mortal beings, right?
I suppose you could argue that case if you believe that life on earth and life in heaven are all the same.  I have not read of such a thing in the Bible, but perhaps you have.

Well it was you who made the claim that the presence of the Tree of Life proved that Adam was a mortal being. You even called it stupid of God if He had put the Tree of Life in the garden of Eden if Adam was not a mortal being. Logically it would be stupid to put the Tree of Life in heaven if people in heaven were not mortal beings.

So why not enlighten me. Besides the time is lasts, what is the difference between life on earth and life in heaven?
Are you serious?  Do you not realize there is a difference between the physical and the spiritual?  I understand that we can not fully understand either, and especially the spiritual.  But surely you realize that the two are not at all the same.
50
Christian Politics Forum / Re: President working for peace
« Last post by Rella on Yesterday at 07:09:43 AM »



I am with you n that.  Pre Trib is the biggest shame in Christianity today.  It will come as a great shock to many, but book writers made out well.


Yes. Book writers have made out well.

I read the Left behind series.. though never completed it as it was just too long and far to far fetched.

I did not believe what I read to be fact, but to be "entertaining."

The trouble is that the pre-trib "teachers and preachers" have hung their talking points on Rev 3:10

The following ink is Bible Hubs listing of many of the translations.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-10.htm

They all ( verses) say , in essence, that God will keep us from that hour of trials... They do not say that we will be
removed.

Verse 11 is fairly ignored by the teachers and preachers which says...

http://biblehub.com/revelation/3-11.htm

I am coming soon...................>

To me this says that God will protect us in the tribulation, not remove us.

If verse 10 meant removal then verse 11 would say I will call you soon, I will draw you up to me soon, or anything other then "I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

The fact that we will go through the tribulation, and not be removed from it is further strengthened in

Matt 24: 21-22 KJV

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

So, if we are gone... in a pre-trib rapture... there would be no need to shorten the days.

That seems fairly simple to me.

But that still does not mean that once Israel/ Palestine/ and the other Arab countries sign a peace pact ,  FOR 7 YEARS... it would  be for not....

It means that the end of the end times is far closer then anyone could imagine.

But it is that 7 year thing. That is the key.
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