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Theology Forum / Re: Why did God favor Jacob over Esau?
« Last post by Julabee Jones on Today at 06:54:39 AM »
God loved Jacob and hated Esau for one reason only...and it is the same reason some find favor with God today, and some do not.

Look, there is a little thing in the Bible, of which most people are unaware. And that little thing is God's Eternal Purpose.

God has a purpose, and it is related to the destruction of Satan's Kingdom and even more so, of Satan Himself. Look at 1 John 3:8, the latter part of that verse,

"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." This is why God came to be incarnated in Jesus Christ, so that,

"...To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord". Eph. 3:11.

God's purpose will be wrought in this universe through the church, the body of Christ (and only in that way). It is there His Eternal Purpose lies. It is that from which we derive predestination, or election.

And not only so, but God's Purpose in Jesus is to destroy the very PERSON of the devil,

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might DESTROY HIM that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." Hebrews 2:14.

And not only to destroy the devil, but the death the devil brings to mankind as well.

God can not only give life, but can destroy life as well. But the devil's sole product, the single thing he can do in the universe, is to bring death...He does that through lies, the world about us, temptation, sin, and the entire list of the works of the flesh. This world IN WHICH WE LIVE lies in the devil, "and the whole world lieth in wickedness" 1 John 5:19.

I've known the devil for over 64 years of my life. And to this day, try as I might, I've NEVER managed to found one good, life giving thing the devil has done for me...Satan is incapable of giving life, and will one day himself, be cast into the lake of fire (where he will be joined by those who do not know Jesus Christ).

God's eternal purpose, and the reason for which Jesus came, is to destroy the works of the devil and ultimately the devil, Satan, himself.

So what has that to do with God loving Jacob and hating Esau?

It is simply because God, in His foreknowledge and omnipotence knows WHO WILL BE USEFUL TO HIM IN EXECUTING HIS ETERNAL PURPOSE. Who will be useful in building the Kingdom of God here on earth...THAT'S why God hated Esau and loved Jacob. It was through Jacob that God could and did bring to mankind the nation of Israel, and through Israel, the Son of God...who is still fully engaged in bringing about God's Eternal Purpose.

Look at any and all 'predestination' verses throughout the New Testament, and every single one of them will be accompanied by a phrase speaking of God's Eternal Purpose. Let's see just a precious few of them...

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:28-29.

If things aren't going well, or 'good' for you nowadays...check really close and you'll find it is because you aren't engaged in helping to bring about God's Kingdom on earth. It is that you are not working and holding on to seeing God's Eternal Purpose brought about.

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel..." 2 Tim 3:9-10

Note that 'his own purpose and grace" are brought about in order to 'abolish death' (destroying Satan and Satan's work, death) and to bring life. Again, Satan can bring and give only death...God can bring and give both life and death. Who better then to serve, than God?

"...having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will..." Eph 1:5-11.

Yes, it is a long passage, but filled with truth. The salient points might be, 1) we are predestined to be children, Sons of God, 2) and that is His will. 3) So that all we have that might be called 'life', we have through Him and Him alone, 4) even to the point that some of us have been vouchsafed with an understanding of the 'mystery of His will', 5: and that too, is according to his good pleasure, and that according to His Purpose. 6) and it is through and by Him that we have been predestinated and given an eternal inheritance of life...

And 7) ALL OF THAT has been done according to His Purpose, and as always, 'after His own will'.

Esau was not fit, not able to play the kind of role in God's Eternal Purpose that Jacob could and did play. This same dynamic works in the world today. God still has His Eternal Purpose, God still predestinates and rewards those people who He knows will serve Him well in God's Eternal Purpose...

And your homework Dear Friends, your task, should you decide to accept it, is to tell us,

"Why did and does God need an Eternal Purpose"...

God Bless you in His Purpose!

I am and remain sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee  Jones
Theology Forum / Re: Why did God favor Jacob over Esau?
« Last post by winsome on Today at 05:57:19 AM »
God knows everything – past, present and future. All time is present to God. Therefore he knows what free choices we will make and them all into account to fulfil his purposes.

He foreknew that Esau would care nothing for, and sell, his birthright (Gen 25:31-34). That birthright was not just the family rights of the firstborn but the right to carry the promises made to Abraham.  After that God promised Jacob that he would be the one to inherit the promises made to Abraham. Moreover Jacob was obedient and did as his father directed in not marrying a Canaanite woman, where as Esau married a Cannanite woman to spite his father.

God knew all that before even Esau and Jacob were conceived and that is why he loved Isaac and hated Esau.
Christian Marriage Forum / Re: Marriage without sex
« Last post by chosenone on Today at 05:41:02 AM »
I agree that is a sin unless there is serious illness or similar. I feel for the spouse who feels frustrated yet who is supposed to be faithful. It must be very hard to remain that way when you have to go months or even years without being able to have sex with your spouse. Its very selfish on the part of the one who is refusing. 
Theology Forum / Re: So why do you think some churches are...
« Last post by Johnb on Today at 05:07:26 AM »
I was going to comment but e.r.m. has already covered it nicely.  Yes there are no reference to anyone being saved by "the sinners prayer".
Theology Forum / Re: A Practicing Homosexual vs. a Recovering Homosexual
« Last post by Johnb on Today at 05:02:54 AM »
Can any one else hear the theme music to the old "Twilight Zone" playing in your head?  "Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?"  Seems some are answering that different than Paul.
General Discussion Forum / Re: Lost
« Last post by grams on Today at 04:58:34 AM »
Lost mother , say's...........

(I have been going and I'm trying so hard but I do not feel forgiveness and something won't let me feel a bond with Him!!  I'm so sad and scared!! )

Do you have the problem I have ?   I day dream , I will be listening and then all of a sudden some thing that the preacher say's turns on some thing else in my mind and I start thinking on that !
When I started to notice this more often, I am now trying harder to stop that.
And it has helped a great deal.

Or maybe you need a different  look at the bible and preacher ?
Lost of good stuff here take a look  please ! 

Eternal security, knows that the practicing homosexual who believes in Christ will be saved. Bible doctrine teaches that He will lose tremendous rewards, be disciplined with a divine discipline,may suffer the sin unto death, live a life that is miserable if he does not change his ways. But He is saved to enter the kingdom, not to inherit the kingdom.

That's so far from the truth.  Then, I assume you believe that if a person just confesses Christ, regardless of his secret life, he's heaven bound????

But He is saved to enter the kingdom, not to inherit the kingdom.

What in the world are you talking about?  "saved to enter the kingdom, but will not inherit the kingdom"~how can this possibly be? 

Save it for another thread, as Jamie said:
I certainly do not want to get off into another OSAS debate, we have had hundreds of them
Theology Forum / Re: Why did God favor Jacob over Esau?
« Last post by Red Baker on Today at 04:18:01 AM »
This is my take on it…

God lets us in on a bit about Esau's character. He was a profane person.. carnal (even despising the blessings of God for temporary pleasure.) The children had not yet done any good or evil when God said, "the elder shall serve the younger" but from the womb God knew their hearts. Jacob was a sneaky dude (and definitely not the shining example of holiness) but at least he valued the birthright. He sought the blessing while Esau sought to fill his stomach.

The scriptures said plainly,"being not born yet", neither having done good or evil.

So your point will find no support from the scriptures.  Esau's being a profane person and left to his own corrupt nature is the results of God not electing him, not the cause thereof.  Jacob desiring the birthright has not one thing to do with him being a better person from conception than Esau, but of God's election of grace only.

God does not tell us why, He just tells us that Jacob was His choice.

The scriptures do tell why God elected one and not the other:

Romans 9:11

  "(for the children being not born yet, neither having done any good, or evil, that the purpose of God according to electing might stand,...................."what is that purpose, we ask?"

NOT OF WORKS, but of him that calleth;"

God Almighty made a choice in their salvation from sin and condemnation, before either of them had any chance to do good or evil, that the doctrine of election of grace could be seen clearly and that it would stand firm, as to why some seek after spiritual blessings, while others seek to fill their belly with the things of this present world.  If left to himself, Jacob would had been no better than Esau, and maybe even worst~to the degree that God leaves man to himself, is the degree that man hardens himself against the God of heaven, just as Pharaoh did.  When it is said that God harden Pharaoh's heart, it does not mean that God work to make his heart harden, only that God refused to make him less harden, and to the degree that God leaves a person, is to the degree that he becomes more wicked than the next person. That's the nature of human depravity, and the devil been able to work through one that is left to himself by God.

Salvation is not of works of any kind, but of pure grace.  That's the only reason why some believe and seek God, and others do not.
Discuss Articles on GCM / Deciding On Quick Plans In Cold Definition
« Last post by K75Y on Today at 04:01:21 AM »
Many interactions can occur in the Nationwide Series event to be screened copd exercises for copd action plan ontario. That combination of the cylinder, no thanks. Yes, the investigators felt certain that many applications are copd exercises run" in the top. Uh, I've come copd exercises back out on a schedule. But for people who quit smoking is critical to support your claim by assisting in gathering documentation and testimony if needed. What are the first second and a remodelling process that involves changes in respiratory issues.
Christian Marriage Forum / Marriage without sex
« Last post by Red Baker on Today at 03:50:58 AM »

Marriage without sex

Paul Byerley, of ‘The Generous Husband’, wrote an important post back in December about how the church doesn’t think of withholding sex as a sin - even though it is.

He writes:

Sometimes it’s total refusal, sometimes it’s sex once a month, or almost once a week… Sometimes the lack of sex is because of ongoing emotional, mental or physical issues, but the person with the problem won’t get any help. THIS IS STILL REFUSAL, as it is refusing to do what would make it possible to have sex.

He goes on to show how churches treat the sins of adultery and pornography very seriously, and have great sympathy for the offended spouse, but that the church does virtually nothing for the spouse who is left in the lurch because their husband or wife has decided to check out of the relationship. He tells churches:

So here is the bottom line for Christian leaders: SEXUAL REFUSAL IS A COMMON AND GROWING ISSUE. Ignoring it does not mean it does not exist in your church, and BEING EMBARRASSED ABOUT IT DOES NOT GET YOU OFF THE HOOK WITH GOD. If you don’t think it qualifies as SIN, I encourage you to do a detailed study of 1 Cor 7:3-7. Can you honestly say Paul did not see sexual refusal as sin?

It is relatively easy for a spouse to go to a pastor and say, “I need help because my husband (or wife) is having an affair.” But what would most pastors say if a spouse went to them and said, “my husband (or wife) has refused to have sex with me for months on end.” They likely would do virtually nothing, or else would encourage you to examine yourself and see how YOU can love your spouse more, as if they are PLACING THE BLAME AT YOUR FEET.

It is time that all of us–Christians, church leaders, spouses – RECOGNIZED SEXUAL REFUSAL AS A SIN. The Bible clearly speaks against withholding sex. Paul said that spouses have the responsibility to meet their spouse’s needs–within reason. I certainly do not believe that if your husband wants sex twice a day you therefore have to make love twice a day. Marriage is compromise! Nor do I believe that if your spouse is demanding weird or kinky sex that you have to do that . But there is a certain level of reasonableness that should be met in a marriage. REFUSING SEX, OR ONLY MAKING LOVE EXTREMELY RARELY, IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

Now, if you have a medical reason for this, or if you’re still recovering from psychological trauma or abuse, that’s a different category. If you are working towards recovery, and you are hoping to resume a healthy sex life, then you are working towards a healthy marriage and that’s good. But if you are refusing to work on your issues, even if those issues are one of sexual function, then you are not living up to God’s design for marriage.

 Agreed, that the primary goal of Christian married couples coming together sexually is procreation [see Malachi 2:15]. But the Apostle exhorts the unmarried and even the widows that if they cannot contain they should marry. And he gives the reason why – ‘for it is BETTER TO MARRY than to BURN’! [1 Cor 7:8-9].

In another place he says, ‘to AVOID fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband’. [1 Cor 7:2].

As a preacher, I have counseled many married men, and except for very FEW EXCEPTIONS the lament of most of them is; that after the initial zeal of the marriage wears off and especially after the couple has been blessed with two or more children, the spouse looses all interest in sex and if at all engages in it does so drudgingly.

It was not until I was a few years into my own marriage that I began to understand the Apostles admonition in Colossians 3:19. There he says, “Husbands love your wives, and BE NOT BITTER AGAINST THEM”. It is indeed easy for a husband to become bitter against an unyielding wife or vice versa. And what is worse is, this opens a DOOR FOR THE DEVIL TO COME IN WITH ALL HIS WILES. [see 1 Cor 7]

The wise man in the Proverbs writes, "Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of thy youth. Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a strange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger?" [Prov 5:20].

What becomes of the (man or woman) who do not find fulfilment with their spouse is clearly implied in the above scripture!

Beloved this is a SERIOUS issue. I have spoken to many a true child of God who became a victim to sexual sin because of this. Yes it is good for a man not to touch a woman, but not all men have this GIFT [1 Cor 7:1 & 7].

Many a godly man has fallen into pornography, fornicated and in some cases has even suffered a divorce because of an unyielding wife!

So the subject at hand is indeed a serious one and not one that can be swept under the carpet or one that deserves an ostrich syndrome.

THE NEED FOR SEX IS A REAL ONE, and when one cannot find it within the marriage bond, they make themselves an easy prey for the wiles of the devil!

So in all our praying for our wives (or husbands, as the case may be [see 1 Cor 7:5) let us fervently pray that they will be faithful to the ‘duty of sex’ in marriage!

Michael Jeshurun

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