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51
Theology Forum / Re: Three baptisms?!?!?!?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:45:29 PM »
Charlie, Paul had his sins to his account and that is why Ananias told him to wash his sin away in baptism.  If his sins had already been washed away, Ananias would not have commanded such.

Charlie, I just told you that by 1 Peter 3:21, Peter said baptism is the calling upon the Lord for a clean conscience. Cleaned how? by the blood of Christ of course. It can't be any clearer. God does it IN baptism by the blood of Christ. Do you disagree with Peter that baptism IS the calling upon the Lord for a clean conscience? A conscience HE cleans by the blood of Christ?

I most certainly don't disagree with Peter, I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of what Peter said.

1Peter 3:21 is the scripture that tells us water baptism is the symbol of our faith in Christ. Which must be understood to get the handle on this water baptism thing.


Yes, but you don't have a handle on it. It reads differently according to the Greek grammar...

"Which also is now a type for you of deliverance through baptism, not the washing of the flesh, but of a right conscience of integrity in pledging yourself into God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

It says exactly what we have been trying to tell you...baptism is a ceremonial rite of entry into the New Covenant - into Christ, OUR ARK OF SAFETY!!! Baptism is the ceremonial rite of entry that is also a non-verbal oath-sign. In marriage in ancient Israel, the sexual consummation of the marriage was the non-verbal oath-sign, for example, and in the New Covenant, water baptism is the same.

If one does not enter into the New Covenant by water baptism, then he isn't in the New Covenant, and he doesn't have eternal life, no matter what he claims.

Well, I guess I'm not in the covenant then. I tryed to enter by the blood of Lamb.


You "tried?" Then you are saying that you were trying to "work" your way into salvation...

Particularly when a person learns that they need to be water baptized into Christ in order to receive the atonement in Christ, and they refuse to do so, for whatever reason...

yep...I wouldn't want to be standing in their shoes when they stand before God...

God: "You prayed and asked me to help you to learn My truth, and I sent someone to you to share that truth with you, but you refused because of the stubbornness of your heart. You didn't look at what I had him show you, and chose not to believe My truth, and so you never entered into My covenant of adoption. Sorry, son, but your name is not written in the Book..."

Or something like that...and those people who stand there and hear those words will be speechless, having nothing to say because what He will say will be true. I hope that's not you, Charlie.

Blessings!

"Tried" was a figure of speech. I have no confidence in water baptism for anything but obeying Christ by showing my allegiance to Christ by faith in His death, burial, and resurrection.

Faith in the Blood of Christ is not a work. Works for salvation is an act taken by man where he participates in his own salvation. A good example would be believing water baptism is where Christ saves. Therefore you participate in that ritual for your salvation and you have helped save yourself. If you hadn't taken it upon yourself to participate in that ritual, you would not be saved, that is works.

Again, Charlie, you fail to properly understand what "works" are in Paul's writings. Works specifically refers to obedience to the law of Moses, it does NOT refer to anything else other than that.

So, please show us where Moses commands in the 10 Commandments that you are to be baptized for salvation. It isn't there, because the 10 Commandments have nothing to do with the New Covenant.  Your mind is still stuck in calvin-mode and as long as you stay there you will never be able to understand the Scriptures.

Repentance is a must before one can get saved, do you also call that a work? Believing that Jesus is Yahweh in the flesh is also a must in order to get saved, do you say that believing that He is God in the flesh is also a work?

Your theology has some serious flaws and issues to deal with...plus the fact that you do not understand covenanting, and covenanting is all about eternal life in relationship with God.


52
General Discussion Forum / Re: When visitors walk into your church...
« Last post by MeMyself on Yesterday at 02:31:35 PM »
I don't care what one has done or their lifestyle, I want them to give God a chance to change them for the better.
::smile::
53
General Discussion Forum / Re: When visitors walk into your church...
« Last post by MeMyself on Yesterday at 02:29:17 PM »
The goal at my church is to make vistors feel welcomed and in the presence of plain home folks.

But the main goal is that the visitors hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the only One who can set the sinner free. If they do not hear the gospel when they come in, what is the purpose of having visitors?

We can do very little for the visitor, but Christ, through His gospel, can do all things!

A church that doesn't present the gosel to it's visitors is of no use to God!

 ::amen!::
54
Theology Forum / Re: Women as teachers
« Last post by MeMyself on Yesterday at 02:27:55 PM »
He is clearly a man who is very secure in His faith and manhood.

If he's so secure, he wouldn't be reading a self-help book.

 ::smacking::

Self help wasn't a good description.  Its a book about how to let Christ transform our lives.

If you mean to say you are above needing to be transformed...well... ::hiding::
55
General Discussion Forum / Re: When visitors walk into your church...
« Last post by Charlie24 on Yesterday at 02:25:35 PM »
The goal at my church is to make vistors feel welcomed and in the presence of plain home folks.

But the main goal is that the visitors hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the only One who can set the sinner free. If they do not hear the gospel when they come in, what is the purpose of having visitors?

We can do very little for the visitor, but Christ, through His gospel, can do all things!

A church that doesn't present the gosel to it's visitors is of no use to God!

But, therein lies the dilemma.  We want to present the gospel to them, but we want them to feel welcome.   The purpose of the gospel is to bring conviction, not comfort.  (As I've heard for years, the purpose of the gospel is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.  But, at it's basic level the purpose is to convict the sinner.)

Do we only preach the part of the gospel that is the "feel good" part so that folks will feel comfortable and want to come back?

Please do not misunderstand me.  I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying.  I suspect if we were sitting down over a cup of coffee we would be in 95% agreement on this issue.  I'm just struggling with how to solidfy and express my thoughts.

Some will accept the gospel and some will not. Those who do will feel a peace that passes all understanding, those who don't are in the hands of God, not our hands.

It's not our purpose to please man, it's our purpose to please God.

The great commission is the churches purpose.

"Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel."

We all can't go into all the world, but we can take care of the ground God has given us.
56
General Discussion Forum / Re: Government ? Who ?
« Last post by mclees8 on Yesterday at 02:24:01 PM »

I would  like to know  why  some one is not   stopping all  the  chemicals , that are up

in the sky from the air plains ?

This seems to me a  way to  do  damage  to  us and our earth ............

They are making  clouds  with   WHAT ?    It can not be good for us ?


What do you think ?

Its not our earth. But heir will be a New Heaven and a new earth and children will sleep with the lions
57
General Discussion Forum / Re: When visitors walk into your church...
« Last post by Carey on Yesterday at 02:21:24 PM »
If they are non Christians, I would want them leaving thinking option B, in a positive sense.  Why do these people seem humbler, happier, less stressed, friendlier than most?
If they are Christians looking for a place where they fit in, option A. 

But as MeMyself pointed out, I want them to walk away thinking they felt very welcome here.  This is especially true for those whose sins some may see as greater than their own, and judge them accordingly.  I don't care what one has done or their lifestyle, I want them to give God a chance to change them for the better.
58
Theology Forum / Re: Women as teachers
« Last post by Tertullian on Yesterday at 02:18:45 PM »
He is clearly a man who is very secure in His faith and manhood.

If he's so secure, he wouldn't be reading a self-help book.
59
General Discussion Forum / Re: When visitors walk into your church...
« Last post by bret75 on Yesterday at 02:16:04 PM »
The goal at my church is to make vistors feel welcomed and in the presence of plain home folks.

But the main goal is that the visitors hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the only One who can set the sinner free. If they do not hear the gospel when they come in, what is the purpose of having visitors?

We can do very little for the visitor, but Christ, through His gospel, can do all things!

A church that doesn't present the gosel to it's visitors is of no use to God!

But, therein lies the dilemma.  We want to present the gospel to them, but we want them to feel welcome.   The purpose of the gospel is to bring conviction, not comfort.  (As I've heard for years, the purpose of the gospel is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.  But, at it's basic level the purpose is to convict the sinner.)

Do we only preach the part of the gospel that is the "feel good" part so that folks will feel comfortable and want to come back?

Please do not misunderstand me.  I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying.  I suspect if we were sitting down over a cup of coffee we would be in 95% agreement on this issue.  I'm just struggling with how to solidfy and express my thoughts.
60
General Discussion Forum / Re: When visitors walk into your church...
« Last post by Charlie24 on Yesterday at 02:05:46 PM »
The goal at my church is to make vistors feel welcomed and in the presence of plain home folks.

But the main goal is that the visitors hear the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the only One who can set the sinner free. If they do not hear the gospel when they come in, what is the purpose of having visitors?

We can do very little for the visitor, but Christ, through His gospel, can do all things!

A church that doesn't present the gosel to it's visitors is of no use to God!
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