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Theology Forum / Re: The Cross of Christ
« Last post by Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Yesterday at 12:03:04 PM »
Question, Red...did you know what nescience means? Or did you go look it up to know what it means? Or did you even look it up at all?
I had to look it up.  (It means 'ignorance')

And please, try not to talk down to people.  It's rude.

Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 12:00:33 PM »
My only comment is. I too believe salvation produces good works. My problem is with some calling repentance, confessing or baptism a good work purportedly to earn salvation. They are not works earning any of salvation. Nothing we can do earns or merits any iota of salvation. If someone contends those things are works and that we say we earn salvation because of them, I will continue to contend they are not, and we do not say that.

And Jesus DID offer salvation to the whole world. And of course the whole world will not be saved.

And yes we are saved by grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. And I do wholeheartedly believe in the sanctification process whereby we are transformed in a life long process by the Holy Spirit into the likeness of Christ.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

We are in one accord Jaime, but for one very important area.

I contend that the blood must be applied by faith in the DBR of Christ only.

There can be no other requirement to receive salvation, such as water baptism in order for the blood to be applied. Neither church membership, good works, or anything else.

There can only be one step in salvation, that is faith. There can not be two steps involved as it cancels faith.

And that, Charlie, is why your doctrine is false and misleading. Although they are not commandments, they are conditions...a condition is not always a command.

A condition for you continuing to live is that you can breathe...that is not a command, it is a necessary condition for maintaining life in the physical body.

Faith is a condition, not a good work.
Repentance is a condition, not a good work.
Entering into the covenant (through baptism) is a condition, not a good work.

All three must be met in order to receive salvation, that is what the Scriptures teach. There is no salvation outside of covenant relationship with God, because that is the whole purpose of salvation, to cleans us from sin so that we can enter into relationship with Him.

God does not waste His blood on those who only come to faith but do not enter therein.


Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 11:55:02 AM »

You men rob Jesus Christ of much of his redemption work that he performed for his people.  Based upon your theology, then some saints are more conformed to His image than others saints!  I must go.

Actually, Red, you don't understand redemption, and it is your theology which robs God of people that He sent His Son to die for, by teaching them doctrines of men rather than what the Word of God clearly says.


Theology Forum / Re: The Cross of Christ
« Last post by Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Yesterday at 11:53:24 AM »
(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 2Cor. 6:2

Now is not salvation, because we are being saved over a period of time, right.
I don't get it.  If salvation is ongoing, then it is, by definition, now.  Doesn't this verse say the very thing you are disagreeing with?

Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by Charlie24 on Yesterday at 11:52:04 AM »
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Phil. 3:9-10

We are conformed into Christ through faith.

That is not what the passage states. When it comes to conforming in this passage it states specifically that it is to His death, NOT to His life...when it comes to us conforming to His image it addresses our life of obedience and holiness.

No one is conformed into His image by faith, but by our obedience and holiness.


There is a two-fold conformity by the Christian. But you will never see it SM.

We are crucified with Christ. We are conformed to His death.

Christ lives in us. We are conformed into His likeness allowing Him to work through us.

Both are by faith.

Paul sums it up in one verse.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal. 2:20
Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 11:51:48 AM »
We are called to become transformed into His Likeness. 

The waters are so foul by both sides that it is really hard to jump back in again, and do very much good. But, the ones that corrupt the truth the most are much more bold in adding works to grace are obvious.

Another post by Red that demonstrates that he cannot understand Paul's writings, but is still caught up in false calvinistic teachings that failed to also understand Paul's writings, reading into them 15th century works-righteousness (beating yourself with a stick for penance, paying for things with money, etc.) into Paul's words.

Theology Forum / Re: A Thanksgiving Day Truce
« Last post by skeeter on Yesterday at 11:51:40 AM »
Being as though I am the most guilty, I will be the first to comply.

You have my word!

no, you aren't the most guilty! you are an example of 'playing nice'.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!  Thank God for Jesus.

and yes, it is still Wednesday.  Save your appetite for tomorrow!
Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 11:47:47 AM »
Thad.-- there is no righteousness in us, none at all. The only righteousness found acceptable to God comes from "Christ through us." Christ can only dwell in us through faith. It's all about faith in Him.

Negative, that is another lie of calvinistic doctrine, easily dispatched and demonstrated as a lie by the Scriptures...

Matthew 5:10
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

They are not persecuted for the righteousness of Christ, they are persecuted for living righteous lives...

Matthew 6:1
"Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

You would think that if your position is correct, that Jesus would not say to practice righteousness, He would be saying that you don't need to practice it...

Romans 6:13
Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

The Spirit here is telling you to practice righteousness, through Paul, whom you do not listen to...

Romans 6:19
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

Practicing righteousness leads to personal sanctification...you have the imputed righteousness and sanctification (holiness) of Christ if you are abiding in the covenant, but you are still commanded to walk in righteousness and sanctification...which you apparently still think you don't have to...

1 Timothy 6:11
But as for you, O man of God, flee these things. Pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, steadfastness, gentleness.

If your theory was true, then why would Paul command Timothy (it is a command in the Greek) to pursue righteousness...especially after calling him a man of God? Also, the term pursue in the Greek means as one pursues an enemy on the run, with militant enmity to catch him...that is strong language if we do not need to walk in righteousness as you falsely claim...

2 Timothy 2:22
So flee youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, along with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.

Again, Paul tells Timothy the same thing...

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

For training in righteousness...if we don't have to walk in righteousness then why are we to "train" for it??? If God's righteousness that is imputed to us by faith is all that we need, then why do we need to train ourselves to walk in righteousness?

1 Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

Peter also tells us that your false doctrine is just that, false. We are to live to righteousness, which means that we are to be practicing righteous lifestyles, which is exactly what Paul also teaches when he addresses our righteousness.

2 Peter 2:21
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

The "way of ..." always speaks of lifestyle, hence we are told here that we are to follow the way of practicing righteousness. We cannot practice the righteousness given to us by faith in God, we can only practice our own personal righteousness...as filthy as they may be considered compared against Christ's righteousness, we are still commanded to live righteous lives.

1 John 2:29
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

Only those who practice righteousness after having been given righteousness is born of God...not those who claim otherwise.

1 John 3:10
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

Again, your teaching has been weighed in the balance and found wanting, because it is only another half-truth. When we take all of the Scriptural evidence together as a whole, in a topical study, we find that there are two species of righteousness...

1.  That which God imputes to the believer through Christ, and

2.  That which we are commanded to walk in for the rest of our earthly days, practicing as a way of life.

One does not cancel out the other, but not walking in righteousness as a way of life does cancel out being given the imputed righteousness of Christ, just as the passages above demonstrate. Walking in righteousness keeps us in the covenant so that we automatically have the imputed righteousness of Christ (I John 1:7).


Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by skeeter on Yesterday at 11:47:24 AM »
I would like o interject if I may.  Works does not produce faith but faith produces good works. You would say faith without works is dead would you not say then that works with out Christ is dead? We are justified by faith through Christ who transforms us into His character. Salvation is not a list of good works we check off on a piece of paper.  Faith and good works are like bothers. You cannot separate them.

I disagree when you say Jesus saved the whole world and all mankind. He took the sins of the world upon Him but he did not take the free will of man from him. If the whole world ( all mankind) would have believed then He would have saved the whole world, but He never said the whole world would believe, therefore he did not save the whole world, but only those who believe.

Thank God there is someone who can see it. Good works is not salvation, it's God's character being revealed through us who are already saved.

Excellent mclees8.
lol! you aren't alone.  But before I was saved I couldn't see or hear this...

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