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Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by AVZ on Today at 05:24:12 AM »
It is not that we inherited some sin nature just because Adam sinned, as the original sin theory proposes.

OK, lets assume you are correct and all of us are born with a neutral nature.
If people are born with a neutral nature, then logically there would be some who do not sin.

So can you explain then why everybody sins? None excluded?
How come scripture says that there is no one who does good?
Health / Re: Foods ?
« Last post by grams on Today at 05:18:03 AM »

I do not go any were these days..... But grocery shopping.....

And I can not  drink or  have some vegetables and no dairy.

Life  stinks  for me these day's..

I want to go home......... But  I guess GOD  say's  its not time......................
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by AVZ on Today at 05:16:56 AM »
AVZ, in response to your post #7, we all come from the same God as per Ephesians 4:6, "One God and Father of all who is above all , and through all , and in you all." When Jesus went to the temple without informing his parents, it was not a sin because he was not yet of the age of accountability, as I mentioned before. According to Ephesians 6:1, we are to obey our earthly parents in the Lord. I don't think it was a coincidence that Luke noted His age. Jesus was twelve at the time, which happens to be just under thirteen, the age of accountability.
You are so far off on just about every doctrine that flows from the mouth! There is not such wicked doctrine taught in the scriptures OTHER THAN we ALL were accountable IN THE FIRST ADAM!
I sincerely believe that the most wicked doctrine taught in the whole of Christendom is that we ALL were accountable IN THE FIRST ADAM!.  That anyone would believe and teach that God would hold us accountable for what Adam did is truly a heinous accusation against God.


You are coming to the wrong conclusion (bold) because you do not make any differentiation between personal sins and being under sin.
Scripture never claims that we are responsible or accountable for Adam eating from the tree. That sin is on Adam.
What scripture states is that we have become subject to the consequence of Adam's sin.

Let me give you an illustration of what I mean to say.
If a king goes to war and he is defeated, the enemy will capture his country and everybody becomes subject to the loss.
If a king goes to war and wins the battle, the citizens in his own country will share in the victory.

God makes promises like these all the time in scripture. And we are all too ready to accept this.
For example: You would find it perfectly acceptable if your whole family would be blessed because of your dedication to the Lord.
But if it is the other way around, your whole family would be cursed because you do something wrong...you would say that that is unfair.
And then you would say that God does not do things like that.

Scripture proves you wrong. Over and over Israel was conquered by enemies, and the good people suffered equally with the bad.
Jacobs children were blessed because of Jacob, but honestly did they deserve the blessing?

When Adam ate from the tree, he opened the door for evil to enter creation.
Creation had now become stained by sin and rejectable by God. And it is in this condition that we humans are born. We are stained by sin because we are products of the flesh.

Now on top of everything I wrote above, I need you to realize that when God cursed man to die...He did that with the intent to bless them.
Without death there cannot be salvation, so in fact our death is being used by God to bring about the best thing that can happen to us.

Lets for a second imagine that Adam and Eve would have eaten from the tree, and God would have said "Thats it. I walk away from this all".
Adam and Eve would have had children who could never have been saved, and you would have been perfectly OK with it.
But now that God has provided a plan of salvation...you say it's a heinous act to think children need that salvation.

And what you totally seem to forget is that what you call "heinous" is the exact reason why you can be saved.
If it is absolutely horrendous for God to visit the sins of Adam on Adam's offspring...can you imagine how ultimately heinous it is that God took YOUR sins and put them on His Son?

You see, us being sinners from our birth has nothing to do with fair or unfair.
Everybody who is saved get's what he does not deserve and none of us get what we deserve. That includes babies and children.
Theology Forum / Re: The baptism in Mt.28:19
« Last post by Texas Conservative on Today at 05:12:59 AM »
Sinners prayer ?  So you have a work based salvation.  You have to actually go to someone and repeat some prayer (not found ins scripture)  to be saved?   You are a speech regenerationalist.    Salvation is based on faith alone why should you have to say some ritual prayer?   Sorry I just could not resist using the same silly arguments that folks come up with against baptism which if clearly commanded in scripture.  By all means lets not listen to The Son of God or the apostles on salvation lets just make up our own little rituals instead of using the path God ask us to do.

I believe Jaime understood my point.  Not sure you do.  I am not a fan of the sinner's prayer.  Also I am against the five steps.

As far as baptism being a work?  Some cofc types devolve it into such.
General Discussion Forum / Re: Drugs
« Last post by grams on Today at 05:00:33 AM »

I am  " was "  a alcoholic ............

My Pa  was and I guess I caught it  from him ?  It feels like it was heredity ?

After years of drinking  , one day my daughter  after giving me a kiss  asked !


That  kind of did it for me  I thought that over a long time and  kept that on my mind

while I kept trying to stop drinking.........  It was very hard !!!!  But  I kept that

thought in my brain all the time and that did help.....

So  you just have to  work very hard at this.   "It is not easy at all " 

But I did it .................
Theology Forum / Re: The baptism in Mt.28:19
« Last post by Johnb on Today at 04:29:33 AM »
Sinners prayer ?  So you have a work based salvation.  You have to actually go to someone and repeat some prayer (not found ins scripture)  to be saved?   You are a speech regenerationalist.    Salvation is based on faith alone why should you have to say some ritual prayer?   Sorry I just could not resist using the same silly arguments that folks come up with against baptism which if clearly commanded in scripture.  By all means lets not listen to The Son of God or the apostles on salvation lets just make up our own little rituals instead of using the path God ask us to do. 
Forum Issues and User Help / Re: Posts being redirected
« Last post by RB on Today at 03:38:47 AM »
I'm looking into it. Trying to duplicate the problem right now.
Howdy Sheriff.
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by RB on Today at 03:24:22 AM »
RB, Yes, if we follow Adam in his disobedience to the Law of God, we die.
You just do not get it. Unlike 4WD who does get it, he just does not rejoice in the truth, but fights against it~But, I deal with his post next.
Yes, if we follow Adam in his disobedience to the Law of God, we die.
Sir, you have ALREADY followed Adam for Paul clearly said:
Romans 5:12~Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
By one man sin entered into the world~Most would accept that sin did indeed commence with one man; but this is not the apostle's meaning. If ever sin commenced among the human race, it must have commenced by one. But the Apostle means to tell us not merely that sin commenced by one, but that it came upon all the world from one. This is the only point of view in which the sin of Adam causing death can be contrasted with the righteousness of Christ giving life.

Death by sin~ If death came through sin, then all who die are sinners.This proves, contrary to your view and 4WD and others, that infants and ALL men are sinners in Adam. Death is the wages of sin. It is the dark badge of man’s alienation from God, the standing evidence that he is by nature separated from the Fountain of Life, and allied to corruption. If infants did not participate in the guilt of Adam’s sin, they would not experience death, disease, or misery, until they become themselves, actual transgressors. The book of Job asked: "Who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off"? And so, that is, consequently, or in this manner, and not, as you and others interprets it, in like manner. This shows the consequence of what is said in the former clauses, namely, that death comes upon all because all have sinned, being participators in the one man’s offense. Death passed, through or from father to son/daughter, etc.  All men~that is, all of the human race, and not all merely who actually sin. As a matter of fact, we see that death does pass upon all without exception.  So death passes on all men because all men are sinners. You cannot make this to refer to those who are actually sinners in time, for there is no warrant for this. The context does not warrant this. Besides, all have not actually sinned. And this would not serve his purpose, because, at all events, it is here implied that death comes on men on account of sin. Since, then, infants die, it proves that they are sinners If the assertion be, that death passes on adults because they are sinners, it may be asked why death, which is ‘the wages of sin,’ passes upon children, on the supposition that they are not sinners? And further, where is the likeness, if the expression "and so" be interpreted in like manner? Is there any likeness between sin entering the world through one offense, and a man dying by his own actual sin? Is there not rather the strongest contrast? Still less would this illustrate the way of justification through Christ, which is the Apostle’s object in this place. It is quite obvious that the Apostle designs to assert that all die because all are sinners.

All have sinned~That is, all have really sinned, though not in their own persons. This does not mean, as some explain it, that infants become involved in the consequences of Adam’s sin without his guilt. Adam stood as the head, the forefather and representative of all his posterity. They were all created in him; and in the guilt of his sin, as well as its consequence, they became partakers. These truths, that sin, death, and condemnation come upon all by one man, are clearly expressed in the following verses, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19.Through the offense of one, many are dead. The judgment was by the one that sinned to condemnation. By one man’s offense death reigned by one. By the offense of one, judgment came upon all men to condemnation. By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners.
However, when we follow Jesus and obey the Law of God as He did, we are made alive.
Sir, as I well said, you are in deep darkness concerning free justification through the obedience of ONE MAN~which cancels OUT your filthy rags as a consideration! More on this later in Romans 5.

One more thought...one MUST be made ALIVE spiritual BEFORE he can please God, and EVEN THEN, sin will be mixed with all that we do.
It is not that we inherited some sin nature just because Adam sinned, as the original sin theory proposes.
You and others are under a strong delusion. It is the clear teachings of God's holy word. It is not a theory, but God's truth sent down from heaven, and even nature testifies to this truth if one's mind was not so biased toward what he has been taught.
Yu keep wanting to say that sin is inherited as if by some gene, sin is passed on to our children. If this is true, where did Adam get this gene? Did he inherit it from God?
It is not what I believe, it is the clear teachings of God! What you believe and what I believe matters little, what does God's word teach is all that matters.
where did Adam get this gene? Did he inherit it from God
You truly do not really care if the truth was known? Adam was created UNRIGHT and given ONE simple commandment yet sinned and became a servant to sin and to the devil himself! At THAT POINT, he died spiritually and LOST God's image in which he was created with, and that image consists in KNOWLEDGE/LIGHT, UNDERSTANDING, WISDOM and TRUE HOLINESS. When Adam knew Eve and she conceived... she conceived children after Adam's image that he had AFTER his sin and fall from having God's image. This is God's testimony to us, I cannot say more or less than this.


General Discussion Forum / Re: Drugs
« Last post by RB on Today at 02:10:13 AM »
I would add alcohol as one of the major contributors, possibly the worst because it is prevalent and more easily accepted. But, have no illusions, alcohol is just as deadly, if not more so, than the users of the narcotics you have mentioned. IMO.
My dear brother, I'm going to disagree with you on this point and the reason is this: Drinking, or even smoking marijuana (if legal) is NOT sinful regardless what our hearts have been taught and our feelings on it. I have never used drugs~did try them once or twice as a youth, but did nothing for me. Maybe I was looking for something more thrilling than what it truly gives, I do not know. Alcohol, or even certain drugs when used for the very purpose of their existence in God's creation, are not sinful, it is the abuse of them, or the lack of temperance of ruling one's spirit using them that causes problems, and other sins. Examples would help you see what I'm saying.

Money is not only needed but answers many needs in our life as we live in this world. The LOVE OF MONEY is where one sins, not the proper use of it as we live in this world.

Food is a necessary for our survival as human beings~yet not ruling one's spirit which causes one to commit gluttony becomes a sin, yet we do not stop eating food because of some cannot rule their spirits who should only feed their hungry and not their uncontrollable lust for appetite.

Women are beautiful and something real men strongly desire, for we know the pleasure that comes from them, yet just because some men and women commit adultery does not mean that women are the CAUSES of such sins, but we should focus more on the wicked heart of people of not ruling their spirit more than on the means that may have caused the sin of adultery~the chastity belt for all women is not the answer, but pressing all to rule their spirits in the sight of a holy God who will bring all things to light and WILL judge sins.

Young boys are NOT the cause of Sodomy, but the sinful wicked hearts of men. We should not force our young boys to dress a certain way, or do this or that, in order to stop wicked men from lusting after them but deal with the sin itself, and sin it IS.

Animals are NOT the cause of bestiality, but the wicked hearts of men and women. We should not get rid of all animals to stop this unspeakable sin, but expose such publicly and invoke strong laws against such practices.

Bottom line, it is not so
alcohol is just as deadly, if not more so
but the abuse of it causes broken homes, death, etc, just as many other things do. Temperance is the fruit of the Spirit of God. Our religion is NOT black and white like the Amish, and others who have many man made rules that give them hope that God is pleased with them because they do this or that, and they do not go here, or there, or eat that, or wear those clothes.

Brother, alcohol, when used with temperance, is a gift from God. Jesus used it in moderation without question he did, and also made the very best of it at a wedding when it was needed. I'll close with these words from the great prophet Moses:
Deuteronomy 14:26~"And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,"
Theology Forum / Re: The Washing
« Last post by bemark on Today at 12:47:47 AM »
4WD are you saying that at birth,  a baby that is born into this world from Adam dosent need the blood , because it has a perfect spirit given by God . So because of this the baby dosent need the blood of Christ. If the baby dies before it trangresses , it is fine because its spirit man hasnet been tainted yet and that part is what lives on with God because the sinful flesh is left behind.It never opened up the door from its sinful flesh that was passed down  by Adam into its inner man where its spirit man  is . Its still pure given by God? What about the soul then ? Does the soul go to be with Christ or is that left behind? Does the soul need the blood of Christ or just the flesh?

I think we need to talk about the distinction between the soul and the spirit.  But for the moment, when speaking about mankind, the Scriptures speak of the soul and the spirit as essentially one and the same.  That spirit does not come through physical birth.  It is given individually to each of us by God himself (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7; Ezek 18)

What I am saying is that it is our spirit that is dead in trespasses and sins that need to be born again (Eph 2:1-6).  That spirit is not tainted, depraved or in any way otherwise corrupted when given by God.  It becomes corrupted when we sin.  It becomes dead in our trespasses and sins, not in the sins of any other, neither our friends, our parents or Adam.
4 WD you have me thinking about some stuff to ponder over for sure that i would have look up.  I have just done nights with only a few hours sleep so anything  comming out of my ipad now could be rather random . more than normal. lol
4 WD I need to break this down in parts so I can find out what you are saying and so I can understand it as well. I am seeking answers to each point so it becomes clear to me.
What's your take on the below

1) Is creation reserved for judgement and did it do wrong? Is creation corrupt? Earth plants animals etc etc
2) Is the new born flesh like in a baby corrupted by the fall. It gets sick and dies etc etc
3) Is the soul corrupted upon creationThat's like who we are on the inside of our fleshy bodies , our natures and the way we think.

So that's dealing with what has been created and received the curse because of what Adam and Eve did.

Then I think I have understood you, in regards to the spirit of a man that is sent from God upon birth is fully righteous,  not affected by the curse , so is outside of the judgement. So if the baby died like say 1 day after being born the spirit of that child would be saved. I am struggling with this because it would have no soul . New born babies have different personalities and as far as I can see that's the soul being portrayed to the world. The bodies and soul I thought came from there families line and also get affected by what we see and do as we grow weather for good or evil.

I thought the Spirit that is given from birth is separate from the soul and body,  but like it's dormant to the things of God until it has been made to come alive within us. Once is has become alive we can access the spiritual kingdom within us and now our soul and flesh can be changed by it. So our soul and flesh start to change because of the life of God within us.

I'm going to stop here because I need to only take a few steps at a time


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