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91
Theology Forum / Re: Do you understand the law and its purpose?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 03:18:34 AM »
Skeeter piped...

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btw, you're way off on that indwelling of the Spirit thru water baptism.

Nope...but you don't understand that because you don't understand the New Covenant.

The indwelling Spirit is a covenant promise...

Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

Which Peter reiterates here...

Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peters says to repent (because God will not forgive anyone who has not first repented of their past sinful lifestyle) and receive water baptism "for the forgiveness of your sins," NOT implying that baptism forgives sins, but that entering into Christ brings about forgiveness of one's sins. Why does Peter say this? Because water baptism is how God has ordained for us to enter into the New Covenant in Christ.

If you understood covenanting, you would also know that all of the gifts and promises of God were given ONLY to those who are in Christ...that means, that once a person enters into the New Covenant by water baptism, THEN they receive the indwelling Spirit...just as Peter says, "and you WILL (future tense) receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

No one gets the Holy Spirit, according to Scripture, until they enter into the New Covenant, and if they cease to remain abiding in Christ, then they no longer have the Spirit dwelling within them. It is not I, skeeter, who doesn't know what I am talking about here.

where does Peter mention water baptism?

maybe you should post the verse that says it takes water baptism to enter the new covenant.

reading what you post about the covenant sure wouldn't cause me to want any part of it - if I didn't already know about it.  I certainly wouldn't go by what you post (or otherwise write) about it (or anything).   

We have been over this before, skeeter.

Peter didn't have to say "water" because that is what he meant and that is how his audience (except for you, apparently) understood him to mean. The word baptizo means submersion under water, and unless a metaphorical statement is qualified as being such (baptized in the Spirit), then it is not a metaphor.

Once again, if I tell you to drive to the store for milk...are you going to utilize the same kind of logic that you demonstrate here, by asking if I meant for you to drive the car?

And you wonder why I say some of the things that I do...
yes, we've been thru it and you're still wrong.

 'if I tell you' -  really? so, you bully people IRL too? (I had no doubt in that) you wouldn't last 10 minutes around me talking like that.

you think you're justified in being nasty to people because they don't agree with you - and have the nerve to tell you that?
again, do you have a verse where Jesus or the Apostles teach that?

I think you need to make sure that you are awake before posting, skeeter...because you missed what was going on and then come out here and try to blast me? If you can't handle being told that you don't know what you are talking about, then study some and make sure that you do...

That isn't being rude, that's just the way it is. Plus, don't confuse examples with what I am saying to people, that doesn't give very much confidence in anything that you say.



92
Theology Forum / Re: What is the Law of Christ?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 03:15:02 AM »
SS said...

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But I must correct you by quoting Romans 10:6a, which says,

But the righteuosness of faith speaketh on this wise... and then verse 10:8a, But what saith it? (in context, the righteousness of faith).

Now you read it again.  In saying that this scripture is not about the righteousness of faith, you have denied the reality of what this scripture teaches.

Let's see...

Romans 10:6-10
6  But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down)
7  "or 'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8  But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);
9  because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10  For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

So...your reading comprehension is completely gone apparently. You were not arguing what Romans said, you stated clearly that in your mind, Deut. 30:10-15, from which Paul is quoting here intermittently, was addressing faith. Go back and read your posts, padowan...because you are confusing yourself and getting all irate over your own failures.


93
Theology Forum / Re: What grace is, and what it is not...
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 03:11:01 AM »
SS tried again...

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1. No, that is simply not true.  I do not use the scriptures in a war-like fashion, though I have seen you use the scriptures in a war-like fashion.
 

Negative, SS...you DO use them like that, and you have done so since day one.
Negative again...what you call war-like fashion to me is a figment of your imagination...either that or you are bearing false witness again out of our emotional state of mind.

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I told you to HARMONIZE  them as you claim that you do but which you do not do: I have harmonized these scriptures in my mind but what you aren't seeing is that,

Again, negative. I did harmonize them together but because together they teach what your bias tells you isn't right, you flush it right out of your mind. Nice calvinistic try, but you lose again.

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2. Ephesians 2:9 says, Not of works, lest any man should boast.  It does not say, Not of the works of the law of Moses, lest any man shoud boast.

Again, SS...because you are completely illiterate in Intertestamental findings, and therefore can't use that information in your interpretation of the Scriptures you are arguing over, you simply refuse it out of ignorance. I gave you the background, and you ignored it...you are only making things worse for yourself.

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The context in Ephesians has nothing to do with Acts 15, Acts 15 has more to do with Galatians than Ephesians, as Galatians was specifically written to deal with the subject of the Judaizers with their doctrine of, "you can't be saved unless you are circumcised and keep the law."

Again, until you learn the Biblical principles of interpretation, and begin using them in your process of trying to interpret the passages given to you, you will completely and utterly fail every time, just as you did here. This is like the teacher trying to drill 2 +2 = 4 into your head but you insist that the answer is 6...

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Here in Ephesians, the context has to do with the fact that we have every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ.  Paul is definitely saying that we do not have these blessings because of our works: and when he says works, he is talking about anything we might do to earn these blessings.  If we earn the blessings, then we have reason to boast; but if it is wholly of grace, then boasting is excluded by the law of faith.

Ahhh...so the base of your argument is grace... Wrong. Grace makes it possible, it does not cause you to have anything, and no Scripture state that. Once again, everything that God has made available to us is in Christ...EVERYTHING. Gifts, blessings, promises...everything...and you must remain abiding in Christ in order to have any of them. Nothing comes by grace alone, that is pure calvin right there, who was no theologian, only a lawyer that stepped out of his background and wrote a book on what he thought was right. Poor schmuck is most likely frying right now because he was a tool of satan to spread more false teachings that the church the Reformation was running from did.

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So the way that I harmonize these scriptures is not to discount what it says in Ephesians 2:8-9, as you do, but to put the two passages together.  I have done this in reply #325 on page 22 of the thread John 3:16..."should not" or "shall not" perish?

Negative, what you did was re-define words and place everything backwards, which is the way your mind apparently works. You "harmonized" by butchering the passages given to you...and that is the carnal way, not the way lead by the Spirit.



94
Theology Forum / Re: What grace is, and what it is not...
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:58:28 AM »
That is the grace that brings salvation and eternal life - but you must understand that if a person ceases to remain abiding in Christ, then they no longer have that special, familial love of God upon them, for it is reserved for those who are only in Christ.

Please share how you define "abiding in Christ".


I didn't define it, MM, God did in I john...

I John 3:23-24
23   And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24   Whoever keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him, and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

There it is, in black and white. The false teachings that we remain abiding in Christ by faith is just that, a false teaching. We abide in Christ through faith and loving on others when the opportunities present themselves to us.


God defines it, not me.

What commands must we keep in order that our salvation be secure?


Is that a trick question? Absolutely none, salvation from your past sin was done once and they are gone.

Now, if you are talking about eternal life, that is a different question altogether. That answer I already gave you above...didn't you read it the first time?

I absolutely read it...and I would still like you to tell me what YOU understand that to mean.  "Keep My commandments"?

Are you sure you are loving, truly loving, in the way God requires of you?  What does that look like?

It means to put trusting faith in Christ, and then love on people when the opportunities present themselves, exactly as He wrote it.

What does loving on people look like? It is giving the homeless person some money when you see them standing on the curb with a sign. It is mowing your widow neighbor's grass for her because she can't. It is helping a co-worker at work with their load. It is helping people who are sick by bringing them a home cooked dinner when they can't make dinner for themselves.

Do I need to continue?

Loving on people when the OPPORTUNITY presents itself, means that if you have the means to help someone in need, then you do it. It doesn't mean that if you see a need but you don't have any way of meeting that need, that you are now in sin because you didn't. There is a difference.

95
Seventh Day Adventist Forum / Re: Does Christ repeat the Sabbath commandment?
« Last post by Hobie on Yesterday at 02:57:41 AM »
Yet we will still have the Sabbath..."22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord."....Isaiah 66:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
96
Theology Forum / Re: On eternal security.
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:53:23 AM »
SS said...

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I would just encourage the reader to decide after studying the OP and what comes after it within the entire thread.

You want to say that my mind is carnal...I suggest reading the thread, Three fingers pointing back.

Yah... "I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say sticks to you..."

Anything else that we can try to consider as a logical come back?


97
Theology Forum / Re: John 3:16..."should not," or "shall not" perish?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:51:05 AM »
Fish said...

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Thaddeus---

What interests me is that SwordMaster and you concentrate on verse 24, and seem to completely overlook verse 23,
which verse 24 explains to us:

I John 3:23-24
23   And this is His commandment, that we BELIEVE in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24   Whoever keeps God's commandments abides in Him, and He will abide in him, and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Yet SM says that believing really has very little to do with it.
   

There you go again, Fish. It seems like the only way that you think you can get the upper hand in an argument is to lie about what the opposing side is saying. You have done it too many times. Just as Paul states...

Romans 1:5
through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,

Romans 16:26
but has now been disclosed and through the prophetic writings has been made known to all nations, according to the command of the eternal God, to bring about the obedience of faith--

Obedience and faith go hand in hand, you cannot separate one from the other if you want to walk in relationship with God. Therefore, either your bias horribly twists what you don't want to see, or you lied again. Which is it?

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But when we read above we clearly see that the FIRST thing that God commands is that we BELIEVE IN THE NAME OF HIS SON.

Yes, Fish...if you used any kind of logic, you would know this is because faith always comes first. You can't walk in obedience to something if you don't first believe in it, can you?




98
Theology Forum / Re: John 3:16..."should not," or "shall not" perish?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:44:17 AM »
Fish said...

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SM said----

>>>As usual, you are so far wrong that its pitiful...
I John 3:23-24
23   And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24   Whoever keeps God's commandments abides in Him, and He will abide in him, and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
Deal with it Fish. This is God speaking through His Spirit, through the hand of John the Apostle.
Who are you? Nothing...no one with ANY authority in the Word of God.
Who are we to listen to...you, a nothing, a nobody? Or God, by His Spirit, through John an Apostle?
I rest my case...by walking in obedience, a consistent exercise in practicing righteousness, we are maintaining our stand as abiding in Christ, and in case you forgot, only those who are in Christ HAVE Christ abiding in them, and they are the ONLY ones who have eternal life.
So much for your false philosophy bound up in human religion.<<<


Of course I'm a nobody SM---I don't claim to be a scholar. But your theology is incorrect.  "Abiding" is fellowship----

Here you go, folks...fish, an ardent calvinist, has to explain away the meaning of the text given to him by redefining the word "abiding," but contrary to his ill fated attempt, abide does not mean fellowship...not in the Greek and not even in English. This is a typical tactic of calvinists in order to climb their way out of the pit of nonsense that they dwell in.

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and a Christian may be very close to God, or they may stray from God. 1 John 3:23,24 says nothing about "maintaining eternal life" at all.

Once again, you demonstrate such poor interpretation skills that it is really laughable. Here, just so those reading can see what nonsense you are trying to pull here again...

I John 5:11-12
11   And this is the testimony, that God gives us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12   Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

I John 3:23-24
23   And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24   Whoever keeps God's commandments abides in Him, and He will abide in him, and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Fish is destitute and ignorant of principles of Biblical interpretation. The first passage clearly states that the gift of eternal life is found only in Christ, and that only those who have Christ abiding in them have eternal life. Then the second passages clearly states that only those who are walking in obedience to God's commandments abide in Him, and He will abide in them. Thus, putting two and two together, one only has eternal life if they walk in obedience to God's commandments and abide in Him, which means that He is also abiding in them.

Fish apparently also has a problem with basic logic skills, which are based upon mathematics most of the time...


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That is YOUR theology SM.


Negative Fish...I just demonstrated that it is what the Scriptures teach, there are others that teach the same thing, and all of them are in direct contradiction to the theories you continually post out of your false bias.



99
Theology Forum / Re: John 3:16..."should not," or "shall not" perish?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:31:13 AM »
SS said...

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Concerning Romans 8:2...

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The law of the Spirit of life is not talking about obeying the letter of a law, but rather about a principle of faith...that the Holy Spirit dwells in and abides in the believer in Christ and is the driving force behind new motivations and new character.  The law of sin and death may indeed be talking about the letter of the law.

You are correct in saying that the law of the Spirit is not talking about obeying the letter of the law, but I don't say that we are to obey the letter of the law, so what's your point?

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It is clear from meditating on the scriptues that the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life, and that believers in Christ are not under the law, but under grace.  Therefore "the law of Christ" and the law of the Spirit of life is not something that tells us we are in obligation but is rather the power of Christ in me that causes me to love Him and thus obey Him.  Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power...

It is easy to see that your meditating on the Scriptures is void of the presence of the Spirit of God, because you are obligated to walk in obedience to God if you want to remain abiding in Christ...just as I John 3:23-24 state.

Concerning 1 John 3:14...

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We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren.  He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

This scripture substantiates my theology more than it does yours, sm.  We know....because we love the brethren  we know what? that we have passed from death unto life.

Negative, SS...only in your mind...and that is the travesty of it. BTW...what you said above, "we have passed from death unto life"..."because we love the brethren"...is exactly what I said. You are trying to put the cart before the horse, but in trying you butchered even what you were trying to do.

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I preach and teach that God gives us eternal life and His abiding love through our faith in Jesus...therefore, since loving God and others is the result of believing in Jesus unto eternal life, it follows that we would know that our faith is genuine, and therefore that we have passed from death unto life, if we love the brethren!

That would be funny if it weren't for the discussion at hand...so in other words, because of what you "preach and teach" you come up with backwoods theology, not based upon what the Scriptures clearly teach, but based upon what you want to make them say that they don't say. Wonderful...do you demonstrate (if you really are a minister of any kind) that you were never called by God into that position, and you are basically heaping coals of fire upon your own head in doing so.

Have fun with that, because when the Day comes, you are going to pay. If God has not called you to be preaching or teaching, then you have no business doing so...and by what you have posted on a continuing basis, He has not called you because you don't give any evidence of the Spirit leading your interpretations. In fact, you give the exact opposite.

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Therefore my loving the brethten is what tells me that I have passed from death unto life...not what you teach about this verse, that I have passed from death unto life because I love the brethren, but rather, I know that I have passed from death unto life, because I love the brethren.

Whatever, SS...I am tired of arguing with someone who is as stiff-necked and acts brainless in his efforts to twist the Scriptures completely backwards.

And concerning Titus 2:11...

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I'm sure you were quoting out of the SMV (SwordMaster version)....

The KJV says this:

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men.

There is a slightly different slant to whatever version you quoted out of that doesn't shoot down your theology...but here we see that the grace of God brings salvation....it doesn't only make it possible!

Sorry, I forgot you are arguing from the point of a four year old. It means the same thing, only it gives a better explanation of what Paul was saying. It means what it says, that grace has made salvation possible...if that is not what it means to you, then you teach universalism, and you have now gone from twisting the Scriptures as a calvinist, to teaching new age doctrine, which is only slightly worse.


100
Theology Forum / Re: John 3:16..."should not," or "shall not" perish?
« Last post by SwordMaster on Yesterday at 02:10:57 AM »
DoorKnocker----

A statement was made:

>>>Eternal life is maintained by faith in Christ and obedience to the same, you can find that all throughout the NT Scriptures<<<

Maintaining eternal life is not found in the Scriptures. What is found there in many places is that Eternal Life is a GIFT from God (Romans 6:23)--
we see this confirmed when Jesus says "I GIVE them Eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish". (John 10:28)

To teach otherwise is to warp the Gospel message. There really is no need to post more concerning this though, since the persons who have heard
the above verses and reject them are dead set on keeping to their false doctrines. May God bless you!


As usual, you are so far wrong that its pitiful...

I John 3:23-24
23   And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as He has commanded us.
24   Whoever keeps God's commandments abides in Him, and He will abide in him, and by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Deal with it Fish. This is God speaking through His Spirit, through the hand of John the Apostle.

Who are you? Nothing...no one with ANY authority in the Word of God.

Who are we to listen to...you, a nothing, a nobody? Or God, by His Spirit, through John an Apostle?

I rest my case...by walking in obedience, a consistent exercise in practicing righteousness, we are maintaining our stand as abiding in Christ, and in case you forgot, only those who are in Christ HAVE Christ abiding in them, and they are the ONLY ones who have eternal life.


So much for your false philosophy bound up in human religion.


Again, if you take the whole of scripture into account (not leaving  out the principle of Ephesians 2:8-9), you would see that we keep His commandments because we are abiding in Him, we do not abide in Him through keeping His commandments.  In John 15, abiding is pictured as a branch connected to the vine...let me say that a branch does not remain in the vine by bearing fruit, it remains in the vine and bears fruit by drawing up nourishment from the vine: and it bears fruit because it is abiding in the vine in this way.  Therefore we do not abide through keeping His commandments as keeping His commandments is the fruit that we bear through our abiding in the vine through faith....actually it is the results of the fruit that we bear.


First, SS, Eph. 2:8-9 is not a principle of interpretation, it is a passage of Scripture that requires interpretation.

Second, you are again putting the cart before the horse, trying to interpret I John 3:23-24 in a very backwards way. You are not taking the passage for what it says, you are reinterpreting it according to your bias...but you can't see that, can you?

Third, your backwards explanation of John 15 is quite hilarious, if it were't for the fact that you are butchering the Scriptures. Once again you are not taking principles of Biblical interpretation and applying them to Scripture. A metaphor does NOT involve every aspect of the thing being used to describe or instruct. You do not remain abiding in Christ because of any "nourishment"...because that is not what He is talking about. But nice calvinistic try...

Fourth, we DO remain abiding in Christ by walking in obedience to God's commandments of the New Covenant, and no matter how much nonsense you try to paper I John 3:23-24 over with, you will never change that fact. All you will continue to do is pervert the Word of God because of your tradition bias, just as Jesus called it...

Mark 7:9
Then Jesus told them, "You have such a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to keep your own tradition!"

Matthew 15:9
in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines of God the commandments of men.




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