At the turn of the century, prayer and holiness were the two most important things to the general church at large. Since then, the church (and this country) have been going down hill ever since...prayer being replaced by calvinistic teachings on the supremacy of grace. In the 1960's, with the inception of Calvary Chapel - the largest calvinistic teaching branch of Christianity - and the subsequent pull toward this movement on the "Flower Children" coming out of the mess they were into (which fit right in with their "free love" mantras), the unbalanced doctrine of "all of grace and nothing of me" steadily pushed to dominate all others.
Amazing~you cannot discuss anything with taking a swing at Calvinism, as though Calvinistic doctrine is at the bottom of all evil!
That is because in the church world, calvinism stands ever bit against the truth of God's Word as does divorce and abortion. It is not the bottom of all evil as you put it, but it effectively prevents people from moving into a saving relationship with God. Just as the Psalmist says...
Psalms 119:104 Through your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way
Therefore, what is your reason for NOT hating the false ways of calvinism?
You are only showing your ignorance and hatred toward TRUTH.
Negative Red, you are showing your tolerance and misguided allegiance for false teachings...
Some of the greatest saints held firmly to the doctrine of election of grace.
Greatest according to whom? You? The majority? Don't make me laugh...it is God to whom we have to do with, not what men think.
Many of our founding fathers and some of our greatest institutes of learning were founded upon those glorious truths.
Yes, the glorious truths of Scripture, NOT the false teachings of a man who didn't even have the Spirit of God indwelling him, whom we have no evidence whatsoever that he was ever even saved, and plenty of evidence that he was not.
Do you need proofs. I am convince that system like yours are the main reasons that this world is heading for God's judgments.
Yes, I know...you are convinced in the same manner as the Pharisees were.
There was a time in this world when kings and all those in authority at least understood the truths of grace, and I have strong proof if you need it.
you are talking out of ignorance on the subject again, like you usually do. Please, provide evidence that kings and all those in authority understood Biblical grace...
Now, most know nothing of the doctrines of grace, including Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc who were started for the sole purpose of training ministers IN THESE TRUTHS~would you care to disprove this, I am ready.
Oh, no...I believe that these schools of higher learning were established by Christians, just as most hospitals were. Yet you confuse Biblical truth with the twistings upon grace that you cling to, and that there is really no way to argue...unless you have written statements by the Deans and Administrators of these organizations from the past...do you? Or is this just more bluster that you are filling your own sails with...
Concerning prayer~of course it is extremely important~but the length and time and manner proves not one thing, neither does it proves that God hears.
Perhaps there is another misconception here...I don't mean so much to say that we need to spend hours in prayer every day, my main contention is that we don't spend enough time in prayer today (for the most part) to gain enough power from God to even keep ourselves from the temptations that we face. Once a person is "prayed up" and full of prayer, he may only have to verbally pray for 15 minutes a day...because he has become so full of the Spirit and so full of the presence of God, like Stephen was, that prayer becomes more of an intimate thing than it does a duty or necessity. Does that make sense?
And you are correct on this other point...just because we pray does not mean God is listening to you. AFter all, there are a number of attitudes and actions that prevent God from listening to people's prayers...
but your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear your voice
If a person is not striving to walk in obedience to God practically, then God does not listen to their prayers. This is not the only passage that states this fact, but I thought that only one would be needed in order to facilitate the point.
Talk about prayer, check out the Muslims, the manner and time they pray, and many other false cults.
Absolutely true, I am with you 100% there...
When we set aside God's word for our own doctrines, (which is what all of those who have a work system does) then pray as much as you desire, God WILL NOT HEAR. God takes delight in his Son, and those who totally trust HIM for their righteousness....they judge their own righteousness as worthless as DUNG.
Yah...read the passage I quoted again. When you are not practicing righteousness, then you are practicing sin...there is no middle ground. Therefore, you have demonstrated once again that you don't have the firm grip upon understanding the Scriptures like you try to put out that you do.
Prayer is an ON GOING daily exercise just as Chosenone said, and IT IS INDEED. Yes, there is a closet prayer, that God desires for all his children, but we are constantly living in a state of prayer and talking with our Father in heaven from sun up, until we fall asleep. Our talking with our God never ceases, never.
Sooooooo, like I also say to Chosen...what is all this about...
But He [Jesus] would withdraw to desolate places and pray.
In these days He [Jesus] went out to the mountain to pray, and all night He continued in prayer to God.
The problem with what you and Chosen say here is evident...if just talking to God is counted as prayer, and Jesus was vastly closer to God than any of us put together, then why did Jesus have to take time off specifically to go and pray? While your intentions are great, they fail in practicality.
Jesus taught us not only in word but in example, that we need to take time out and go somewhere alone to be with God for a while. If we cannot even get that simple idea down, then how are we to ever become the church that God wants us to be and put things together so that we can be?
Try posting without speaking against God's free grace, without which, prayer is useless~ specially for people like you, since you believe that you can do all things through your own power and ability.
You still don't get it, do you, Red. I don't speak against God's grace...and you calling it free every chance you get doesn't help you cause any, either. I speak against the perversion of grace that some here make it out to be...
Jude 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God
into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
All those who teach that grace is the all-in-all, that nothing is of us but it is "all of grace" and that we have nothing to do with anything having to do with our relationship with God, pervert the grace of God by taking it out of its God-ordained place and giving it authority where God does not.
As for your last comment, that you *think* I think I do it all on my own...that is just another strawman that you like to use so much. What is my OP about again??? That we don't spend enough time in God's presence through prayer to be able to have the power in our lives that God provides through prayer in order to do anything spiritual???
Once again you show yourself confused. Did you take your vitamins and minerals today?