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91
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/29/opinion/schlumpf-pope-evolution-big-bang/index.html
By Heidi Schlumpf
updated 5:58 PM EDT, Wed October 29, 2014


Quote from: Heidi Schlumpf
On the way home from religious education class a few weeks ago, my son and I were discussing the creation story. "It's just a myth," he announced, repeating my previous explanation that while the Bible stories contain truth, they didn't all necessarily happen.


I'm afraid she doesn't have much credibility on the Bible when she is telling her own kids it is a myth.
92

Quote from: DaveW
And that is what I was taught as a kid in sunday school.  It is WRONG entirely.

Passover is at the evening of the 14th of the month.  Jewish months start with a New Moon, which puts the start of Passover on a FULL MOON always. Solar eclipses can ONLY occur at New Moon.

For an eclisped caused by the moon, I agree. And it would not last for three hours.

But something else could have come between the sun and the earth. Could be a large asteroid, which could also account for the eathquake mentioned in Matthew's gospel
93
Theology Forum / Re: What Is Messianic Judaism
« Last post by Charlie24 on Today at 05:45:03 AM »
What was the source of the hardening that came upon the Jewish people. And did it have a purpose?
Rom. 11:25-33

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
 
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
 
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
 
For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
 
For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
 
Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
 
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
 
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
94
Thanks for the link, Winsome , to the article about the story of the Reformation needing reform .

It mentions Titus Oates and the Popish Plot . The "Plot ", which never took place , was possible because of the persecution of Catholics in England following the Reformation . In England being a Catholic could mean execution , imprisonment , heavy fines , loss of livelihood etc. Catholics were not accepted as citizens in this Protestant realm . In fact it was , believe it or not , not until the Catholic Relief Act of 1926 that all laws which discriminated against Catholics were removed from the statute books .

Some info about the Popish Plot :-

The Popish Plot of 1678 was the result of the fertile mind of Titus Oates. In fact, no Popish Plot existed but the circumstances within the country at the time resulted in many listening to what Oates had to say.

Titus Oates was a renegade who had joined the Church after Cambridge University but was dismissed from his post for drunken blasphemy. He became the chaplain for a Royal Naval ship, the ‘Adventurer’, but he was dismissed from this as well for sodomy.

To get some elevation in society after his fall from grace, it seems that Oates discovered a plot to kill the king – what became known as the ‘Popish Plot’. This was a plot ‘uncovered’ by Oates after he managed to infiltrate Jesuits based in London. The plan was to kill the king, Charles II, and replace him with his Catholic brother James. Then thousands of Protestants would be killed in a blood bath.

It was all nonsense – the invention of a fertile if warped mind - but events at the time conspired to assist Oates.

In 1666 many Londoners had blamed the Catholics for the Great Fire – so blaming the Catholics was not new. London was also in the grip of an economic depression and many were unemployed. Catholics became a convenient scapegoat who could be blamed for just about anything.

Oates gave, under oath, an account of what he had found out from the Jesuits. This account was made to a magistrate called Sir Edmund Geoffrey. He was found murdered in London a while after Oates had given his statement. This only served to heighten tension as many blamed the Catholics for taking their revenge out on a man who was only doing his job.

In September, Oates named many Catholics as being part of the conspiracy. Charles II treated his claims with huge scepticism but Parliament latched on to them and argued that they should be investigated. Oates was given a state apartment in Whitehall and an annual allowance of £1,200.

He also gained much credibility when one of the first names he gave – Edward Coleman – was found to be in treasonable communication with the French. This played into the hands of Oates and ‘proved’ that his claims were true. Coleman had been a secretary to the Catholic Duke of York. To many in London, Oates’ story seemed to make perfect sense. Known Catholics were ordered to leave London and many Protestants in the city openly carried weapons to defend themselves against the impending Catholic 'onslaught'. This hysteria played into the hands of Oates and only served to elevate his status in London.

Oates continued with his campaign. He accused five leading Catholic lords of treason. This was greeted with laughter by Charles II. The king personally questioned Oates and found many large discrepancies in his story. Oates upped his story by accusing the queen and the royal doctor of plotting to poison Charles. The king was not willing to accept such nonsense and ordered the arrest of Oates. However, he was saved by Parliament such was the paranoia he had created. Unwilling to take on Parliament, Charles agreed not to proceed with the arrest. By the end of 1678, Parliament had passed two acts that forbade Catholics from being members of both the Commons and the Lords.

Oates constantly made outrageous claims that were believed. One was that the king would be shot by silver bullets so that the wound could not be treated. Some even believed that the French had invaded the Isle of Purbeck.

It was only in 1681, that senior legal figures started to question what had gone on. Judge Scroggs declared innocent men accused of treason by Oates. In previous years, Catholics had been executed near enough on the say so of Oates and the ‘evidence’ he presented. Scroggs even declared some of the executed posthumously innocent

The fall from grace for Oates was swift. The Popish Plot showed just how easy it was to create an enemy that did not exist. Such was the fragility of society that even someone like Oates with his background, could be believed.


The Popish Plot ended as quickly as it had begun, though one of the lasting legacies was that Catholics were forbidden to stand as MP’s or in the Lords for many more years. However, a number of Catholics had been executed as a result of the hysteria created. Oates was sent to prison for perjury but was released in 1688 by William III with a weekly income of £10. For the short-term chaos he had created, it was probably not a deserved outcome.

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/popish_plot.htm
95
Theology Forum / Re: Eternally Secure
« Last post by DaveW on Today at 05:29:48 AM »
Most denominations in the Wesleyan and Arminian camps fire any pastor who teaches OSAS.

96
Quote from: DaveW
Did the reformation start this; or was it merely the turning point in a disease that had already infected the church centuries earlier?
I think the Reformation started this. I'm not saying the Church was flawless but it was the Reformation that spawned much tryanny.

In previous times the Catholic Church could put some restraints on the power of kings. For example the Pope called Henry II to account for the murder of Thomas Becket,

After the Reformation that restraint was gone and kings could be tyrants (or at least bigger tyrants than before). A couple of days ago I was listening on the radio to a programme about the hang, drawn and quartering of an 11 year old girl in the reign of Henry VIII (after the Reformation in England). Apparently 72,000 people were executed in his reign. And it went downhill after that.

The whole social fabric of the country was destroyed.

Yeah - IMO it was like ebola - you can get infected but the actualy sickness not set in for 3 weeks.  Or HIV which may take years to develop into full blown AIDS.

In this case the disease did not start showing its symptoms for about 700 years.  Then there was the East-West split that resulted in the Catholic and Orthodox churches.  Then 500 years later it REALLY took off with the Reformation.

Do you really think the Reformation can be seperated from the Great Schism?
97
Quote
Never is 100% correct.  There are conditional prophecies and unconditional prophecies.  Both have examples in the Bible.
If someone gives a conditional prophecy and and it does not come to pass, that means the conditions were met.
If someone gives an unconditional prophecy and it does not come to pass, that person is a false prophet.
Yes.
 
If it is a conditional prophecy, the conditions will be spelled out in the prophecy itself.
98
Fish - you are twisting my words to fit your agenda. 

The text says (kjv I think) "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

There is an implication that if he was NOT delivered to hasatan [the adversary] his spirit would not be saved. That is the plain meaning of the text. 
99
Theology Forum / Re: So why do you think some churches are...
« Last post by DaveW on Today at 04:36:17 AM »
What is works? Works is a catch-all phrase.

Correct.  I have heard some [on these forums] claim that faith is a work and must be avioded as well.

John 6:29  Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
100
Theology Forum / Re: Islamic Extremeism and The Anti-Christ
« Last post by DaveW on Today at 04:32:53 AM »
Quote
I'd suppose that there are Muslims in America and Britain right now who are seemingly the most peaceful and moral people on Earth and their life's goal is to kill Jews and Christians or anyone in our countries for that matter because we are allies with Israel.   

"First the Saturday people and then the Sunday people."
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