Kent Hovind's Petition for Pardon

[navyvet]

Interesting that more sympathy can be found on GCM for Mary Winkler (murderer; CoC), than for Kent Hovind (found guilty of tax fraud; Baptist).

I think Mary Winkler should be executed.  If Kent Hovind is guilty he should be in jail.  Being a Christian isn't a "get out of jail free" card.

Sis. Winkler was found guilty by a jury of manslaughter, not murder.

[CSloan]

I'll be looking for petitions asking Bush to keep this crook locked up.

Pro 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins. 

[Bon Voyage]

Interesting that more sympathy can be found on GCM for Mary Winkler (murderer; CoC), than for Kent Hovind (found guilty of tax fraud; Baptist).

I think Mary Winkler should be executed.  If Kent Hovind is guilty he should be in jail.  Being a Christian isn't a "get out of jail free" card.

Sis. Winkler was found guilty by a jury of manslaughter, not murder.

Back in the day, both murder and manslaughter would have got you the gallows.

[Mere Nick]

I'll be looking for petitions asking Bush to keep this crook locked up.

Pro 10:12 Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins. 

1 Peter 4:15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.

[Bon Voyage]

Maybe God has some work for Ken Hovind to do in prison.

[Mere Nick]

Maybe God has some work for Ken Hovind to do in prison.

Christians ought to have license plates on their cars.

Maybe the clank of the cell doors will cause Ken to realize he really is a crook, deserves to be in prison, and that it cause him to repent of wickedidity, eviltudinal impulses, iniquity and tax evasion.

[CSloan]

Maybe God has some work for Ken Hovind to do in prison.

I heard from someone at CSE that the first week he lead something like 19 souls to Christ. So I'm sure your right, all things work for good and His Glory.

Nick,

I don't know what your problem is, but I will definitely pray for you.

[Mere Nick]

Maybe God has some work for Ken Hovind to do in prison.

I heard from someone at CSE that the first week he lead something like 19 souls to Christ. So I'm sure your right, all things work for good and His Glory.

Nick,

I don't know what your problem is, but I will definitely pray for you.

Thanks!  I always appreciate folks praying for me.  Don't forget to pray for Ken Hovind, too.  Crooks need prayer.

[Mere Nick]

CS Sloan,

Would you please explain why tax evaders shouldn't be locked up if they claim to be a Christian? 

Thank you,

Mere Nick

[zoonance]

because christians have no penalty for their sins.  Grace covers all of them all the time.  Why would they have to suffer earthly punishment at all, even for a season?  What difference does it make?  (Hope you follow my point!)

[kamakaz]

because christians have no penalty for their sins.  Grace covers all of them all the time.  Why would they have to suffer earthly punishment at all, even for a season?  What difference does it make?  (Hope you follow my point!)

wow, i dont even know who kent is, but the above statement! huh??
we do have penalty for our sins, "the wages of sin is death" "I have not come to abolish the law but to fullfill it". what a mockory of God as well as Jesus on the cross if we think this way. Yes it is true that grace does cover us on judgement day, however that dont mean we can run around here and kill, steal, covet, lie, without punishment. Why do you think God allowed all that happened to Isreal (and other countries) was it not because of their sins?

[zoonance]

Ah. Caught the point! By the way, why can't we run around and kill, steal, covet, lie... without punishment BASED on our eternal destination?  For sake of argument: Do we pray that a tax evader gets off or goes to prison?   

[Mere Nick]

Ah. Caught the point! By the way, why can't we run around and kill, steal, covet, lie... without punishment BASED on our eternal destination?  For sake of argument: Do we pray that a tax evader gets off or goes to prison?   

It seems we should pray that he repents of what he's in the slammer for.

[kamakaz]

We pray his soul goes to heaven, his body can go to jail. God is more concered about the soul, which is where grace and love come in, however He is still a God of Rightousness, didnt he say " he chastizes those he loves"  

[zoonance]

Yes, but why be chastized? (except for personal betterment?)

[kamakaz]

Yes, but why be chastized? (except for personal betterment?)

because that is what a good father does (our heavenly father) and yes for our personal betterment.

[Bon Voyage]

I saw your video about the jaguar.

[zoonance]

Yes that was me!    I really am zoonance!

[zoonance]

Yes, but why be chastized? (except for personal betterment?)

because that is what a good father does (our heavenly father) and yes for our personal betterment.

Is that what the bible teaches, that we are chastized in order to be a better person?

[kamakaz]

yes it does teach that. What I wrote is pretty close to word for word, if i remember correctly its in proverbs. 

[CSloan]

Nick,

I don't know what about this rubs you the wrong way, and I'm sorry if somehow I personally incited your anger. I don't want to fight with you about this but I would like to answer your questions if they are sincere. But most of your statements have seemed provoking or antagonistic, but its hard sometimes to tell that from a message board.

CS Sloan,

Would you please explain why tax evaders shouldn't be locked up if they claim to be a Christian? 

I personally don't think he is guilty, I believe he is a brother and this is a ploy from the enemy to silence his ministry. Could I be wrong? Yes of course. But I will always give my brothers the benefit of the doubt, and believe what they say. He says he is innocent, so I believe him. If that makes me a fool, than the fool I am.

But I never said he shouldn't be locked up because he a Christian, if you got that from one of my posts I either misworded myself; or you misunderstood.

Thanks!  I always appreciate folks praying for me.  Don't forget to pray for Ken Hovind, too.  Crooks need prayer.

I will pray for Hovind that if he is guilty that he repents, and I will also pray for you. But why you are insistant on cast judgments and name call is beyond me.

Sorry if this post find you or others in offence.

[zoonance]

yes it does teach that. What I wrote is pretty close to word for word, if i remember correctly its in proverbs. 

Divine discipline is only for his children to be the best that they can be?  Paul, for example, taught this?  (not as an army recruiter  ) but as one who warned of ... what?  being less than one can be here on Earth?  or were there greater consequences?

[Mere Nick]

Nick,

I don't know what about this rubs you the wrong way

Asking folks to sign a petition to let a criminal out of jail.  You know why he's in jail?  Because he did it.  The jury heard and saw the evidence and nailed him and his wife on all 58 counts.  I've no use or respect for these tax protestor types.  If he doesn't like the law, try to get it changed instead of willfully breaking it with a vengeance and saying he is above the law.  If anything, I regret he only got 10 years.

[zoonance]

Maybe this is how God is making him to be all that he can be.  Divine discipline in action.

[James Rondon]

Nick,

I don't know what about this rubs you the wrong way

Asking folks to sign a petition to let a criminal out of jail.  You know why he's in jail?  Because he did it.  The jury heard and saw the evidence and nailed him and his wife on all 58 counts.  I've no use or respect for these tax protestor types.  If he doesn't like the law, try to get it changed instead of willfully breaking it with a vengeance and saying he is above the law.  If anything, I regret he only got 10 years.

So, the law never makes mistakes? Judges and jurys never send people to jail who are innocent? I am not saying that Kent is innocent or guilty, because I don't know enough about everything that happened... I do know that our Lord was accused of blasphemy, amongst other things.

[Mere Nick]

Nick,

I don't know what about this rubs you the wrong way

Asking folks to sign a petition to let a criminal out of jail.  You know why he's in jail?  Because he did it.  The jury heard and saw the evidence and nailed him and his wife on all 58 counts.  I've no use or respect for these tax protestor types.  If he doesn't like the law, try to get it changed instead of willfully breaking it with a vengeance and saying he is above the law.  If anything, I regret he only got 10 years.

So, the law never makes mistakes? Judges and jurys never send people to jail who are innocent? I am not saying that Kent is innocent or guilty, because I don't know enough about everything that happened... I do know that our Lord was accused of blasphemy, amongst other things.

The Good Lord wasn't accused and convicted on 58 counts incuding not even filing 1995-1997 personal income tax returns when he owed over $520,000, including penalty and interest, $474,000 in payroll taxes (form 941) from 2001 to 2003, making cash withdrawals of $9,500-$9,600 (to keep it under the $10,000 amount that gets reported) 45 times between July 01 and Aug 02, as well as a whole host of other tax law violations.

[mike]

Jesus paid his taxes. But he kept his cash in a fish instead of a bank. 

When they reached Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your teacher not pay the temple tax?"  He said, "Yes, he does." And when he came home, Jesus spoke of it first, asking, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tribute? From their children or from others?"  When Peter said, "From others," Jesus said to him, "Then the children are free.  However, so that we do not give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook; take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a coin; take that and give it to them for you and me."

-- Matthew 17:24-27

[Jimbob]

It's stupid to expect a worldly government in the 21st century to follow OT law given to Israel.  If that was Hovind's reasoning, I mean, that most sorts of interest would be illegal.

When we were told to "render unto Caesar" we were not assured that Caesar would always play fair.

And that's the bottom line.  In fact, I'd take it a step further--Jesus and his listeners knew good and well they would be treated unfairly by Caesar(s).

[Jimbob]

Jesus paid his taxes. But he kept his cash in a fish instead of a bank. 

When they reached Capernaum, the collectors of the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your teacher not pay the temple tax?"  He said, "Yes, he does." And when he came home, Jesus spoke of it first, asking, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tribute? From their children or from others?"  When Peter said, "From others," Jesus said to him, "Then the children are free.  However, so that we do not give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook; take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a coin; take that and give it to them for you and me."

-- Matthew 17:24-27

I wonder if the fish charged a $3.00 transaction fee?

[James Rondon]

Nick,

I don't know what about this rubs you the wrong way

Asking folks to sign a petition to let a criminal out of jail.  You know why he's in jail?  Because he did it.  The jury heard and saw the evidence and nailed him and his wife on all 58 counts.  I've no use or respect for these tax protestor types.  If he doesn't like the law, try to get it changed instead of willfully breaking it with a vengeance and saying he is above the law.  If anything, I regret he only got 10 years.

So, the law never makes mistakes? Judges and jurys never send people to jail who are innocent? I am not saying that Kent is innocent or guilty, because I don't know enough about everything that happened... I do know that our Lord was accused of blasphemy, amongst other things.

The Good Lord wasn't accused and convicted on 58 counts incuding not even filing 1995-1997 personal income tax returns when he owed over $520,000, including penalty and interest, $474,000 in payroll taxes (form 941) from 2001 to 2003, making cash withdrawals of $9,500-$9,600 (to keep it under the $10,000 amount that gets reported) 45 times between July 01 and Aug 02, as well as a whole host of other tax law violations.

You didn't answer the questions. I'll ask them again, just in case you missed them: So, the law never makes mistakes? Judges and jurys never send people to jail who are innocent?

Regarding our Lord, you are right. He wasn't convicted of tax law violations, nor was He given a 10 year prison sentence. He was accused of blasphemy and sedition. As a result, He was executed.

[zoonance]

blasphemy and sedition can not be calculated by an accountant.

[James Rondon]

That settles it, I guess. When IRS accountants are involved, we can trust the data and any resulting verdict without any reservation.

(Interestingly enough, someone very close to me was audited by the IRS several years ago, and the auditor hit him with multiple penalties, and tried to bring him up on charges for supposed violations. Thankfully, he and his accountant were able to successfully fight it in court, and the auditor actually ended up being fired for mishandling the case, and acting "inappropriately". In the judge's own words, she had some sort of "personal vendetta" against him.

I wonder... If he had been debating evolutionists, and talking about the government during speaking engagements around the country, if perhaps the verdict would have been different?)

[mike]

James, brother; you are a bright guy . . .
. . . but your last post sounds paranoid. Have you thought this through thoroughly?

[James Rondon]

I'm just stating a fact, Mike. That's what happened to someone very close to me.

[mike]

okay