Why Won't Obama Release His Birth Certificate?

[Charles Sloan]

adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):

Who was your candidate again? I forget cause I never hear his name...

[sanctusivo]

adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):

Who was your candidate again? I forget cause I never hear his name...

Jaime will vigorously dissent, but I'm voting for Bob Barr, the most conservative candidate I believe is on the ballot.

I just think that the preoccupation with Obama and personal attacks has doomed the McCain candidacy and damaged the GOP as a political vehicle for conservative ideals.  Blathering on about birth certificates is not campaigning on ideas or issues.  The McCain campaign and the RNC have admitted as much.

Problem is that there is so much identification of conservatism with the GOP that antics like Jerome Corsi and Phillip Berg damage conservatism and make the United States look unserious.

[admin]

sancobamalover,

World Net Daily has NOT said that the birth certificate pictures on Obama's website are legit. You're pulling a Joe Biden here and LYING. That's probably why you didn't cite a source. The links I just posted were from World Net Daily and they are questioning his citizenship status strongly. Though reality usually doesn't interest Obama supporters, here are actual sources from yesterday from World Net Daily strongly attacking Obama not releasing his birth certificate and stating that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya.

adminmycandidateisgoingdowninloserflamesbigtimewaawaawaa (sorry about that, that wasn't appropriate):

I can play WND, too.  See Drew Zahn on August 23, 2008:

A separate WND investigation into Obama's birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there.

If you were being honest, you'd point out that that was before Berg presented his evidence. Berg did not even get involved in the situation until August 2008. WND, as several others, thought that because Obama had a graphic on his website that it was decided. But that's just silly. I could put a picture on my website of all kinds of stuff but that doesn't prove anything. And the graphic on Obama's site is not even a birth certificate. Bottom line, McCain gave his information right away, Obama has refused for over a year now. Be dishonest all you want concerning the importance of this matter and point to a graphic on a website as "proof." I think you're going to drop your jaw in shock early November.

[admin]

Just checked, you can't even get a passport with a Certificate of Live Birth. You must have a Birth Certificate.

[sanctusivo]

If you were being honest, you'd point out that that was before Berg presented his evidence. Berg did not even get involved in the situation until August 2008. WND, as several others, thought that because Obama had a graphic on his website that it was decided. But that's just silly. I could put a picture on my website of all kinds of stuff but that doesn't prove anything. And the graphic on Obama's site is not even a birth certificate. Bottom line, McCain gave his information right away, Obama has refused for over a year now. Be dishonest all you want concerning the importance of this matter and point to a graphic on a website as "proof." I think you're going to drop your jaw in shock early November.

Lee:

God love you, you're there at the barricades for family values and conservatism, and I appreciate you for that. I am always impressed that the forums are open and at the number of guests who come to your site.  All of that is good.

But, the bottom line is that Berg has filed a lawsuit in Pennsylvania that is going absolutely nowhere.  He has not stated a claim that the court will listen to: he simply cannot accuse someone of something and then demand that the accused prove himself not liable.  We would all be broke from those kinds of lawsuits.  What Obama's Kenyan grandmother says is hearsay and not admissible unless Berg can drag her here to testify. In any event, it's beyond clear and convincing evidence that there is no doubt that Obama was born in Honolulu.

Sure, Obama could produce whatever, but he can game the system just as much as Berg.   And that is exactly what the Democrats are doing.  They're not responding in kind, and folks like Berg and Limbaugh are going nutjob in counter-response.  When they do that, the perception is that the entire GOP is nutjob, racist, and xenophobic.

And that is a perception that the Democrats have encouraged and nurtured among independent non-partisan voters.  Why do you think that Democrats have been frustrated at Obama's unwillingness to go after McCain the way that McCain has been going after him?  They don't understand the strategy.  Obama looks calm, in control, mature; McCain, on the other hand, looks desperate, angry, and flailing.  QED.

I don't think the damage can be undone at this point: the further pursuit of the birth certificate meme is now meant to motivate the GOP in minority status and to attempt to delegitimize an Obama presidency.  Thirty years ago, that might have worked over time, but our demographics are changing, and the GOP is ill-suited to adapt to the changes.  It won't work this time.  If American conservatism continues to links its fortunes with the GOP, they will be marginalized as a national political and societal force.  The GOP will become a small party of a membership of only white people, the Grand Old "Get Off My Lawn" Party.  A sad, sad fate for the political movement that once preserved the Union.

[sanctusivo]

Just checked, you can't even get a passport with a Certificate of Live Birth. You must have a Birth Certificate.

Incorrect, I've gotten my passports with the same kind of certificate of live birth. I've never had to use a record of live birth.

[admin]

You have to produce a copy of a birth certificate according to the http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

It says: When applying for a U.S. passport in person, evidence of U.S. citizenship must be submitted with Form DS-11. All documentation submitted as citizenship evidence will be returned to you. These documents will be delivered with your newly issued U.S. passport or in a separate mailing.

Primary Evidence of U.S. Citizenship (One of the following):
Previously issued, undamaged U.S. Passport
Certified birth certificate issued by the city, county or state*
Consular Report of Birth Abroad or Certification of Birth
Naturalization Certificate
Certificate of Citizenship

Sorry about that citing source thing, it's just a habit of mine.

By the way, Phil Berg was interviewed by Michael Savage a couple of days ago. Listen to the interview, you'll need to fast forward to the 18 minute mark.

[sanctusivo]

Sorry about that citing source thing, it's just a habit of mine.

I'm just telling you, dude, I got my first passport with the birth certificate I got from the state of Tennessee down at the Cordell Hull building on the same kind of green certificate paper that Obama's is printed on.

[admin]

And I'm telling you that there's a difference between a Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Live Birth. But feel free to disagree with what the government tells you is required.

[sanctusivo]

And I'm telling you that there's a difference between a Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Live Birth. But feel free to disagree with what the government tells you is required.

Actually, there's not. What I think you're thinking of is a Record of Live Birth, the document with names, parents, birth times, weights, and doctor's names. That is NOT what is required for a passport.

Do you have a passport?

[Charles Sloan]

By the way, Phil Berg was interviewed by Michael Savage a couple of days ago. Listen to the interview, you'll need to fast forward to the 18 minute mark.

Great information! 

[admin]

If you were being honest, you'd point out that that was before Berg presented his evidence. Berg did not even get involved in the situation until August 2008. WND, as several others, thought that because Obama had a graphic on his website that it was decided. But that's just silly. I could put a picture on my website of all kinds of stuff but that doesn't prove anything. And the graphic on Obama's site is not even a birth certificate. Bottom line, McCain gave his information right away, Obama has refused for over a year now. Be dishonest all you want concerning the importance of this matter and point to a graphic on a website as "proof." I think you're going to drop your jaw in shock early November.

Lee:

God love you, you're there at the barricades for family values and conservatism, and I appreciate you for that. I am always impressed that the forums are open and at the number of guests who come to your site.  All of that is good.

But, the bottom line is that Berg has filed a lawsuit in Pennsylvania that is going absolutely nowhere.  He has not stated a claim that the court will listen to: he simply cannot accuse someone of something and then demand that the accused prove himself not liable.  We would all be broke from those kinds of lawsuits.  What Obama's Kenyan grandmother says is hearsay and not admissible unless Berg can drag her here to testify. In any event, it's beyond clear and convincing evidence that there is no doubt that Obama was born in Honolulu.

Sure, Obama could produce whatever, but he can game the system just as much as Berg.   And that is exactly what the Democrats are doing.  They're not responding in kind, and folks like Berg and Limbaugh are going nutjob in counter-response.  When they do that, the perception is that the entire GOP is nutjob, racist, and xenophobic.

And that is a perception that the Democrats have encouraged and nurtured among independent non-partisan voters.  Why do you think that Democrats have been frustrated at Obama's unwillingness to go after McCain the way that McCain has been going after him?  They don't understand the strategy.  Obama looks calm, in control, mature; McCain, on the other hand, looks desperate, angry, and flailing.  QED.

I don't think the damage can be undone at this point: the further pursuit of the birth certificate meme is now meant to motivate the GOP in minority status and to attempt to delegitimize an Obama presidency.  Thirty years ago, that might have worked over time, but our demographics are changing, and the GOP is ill-suited to adapt to the changes.  It won't work this time.  If American conservatism continues to links its fortunes with the GOP, they will be marginalized as a national political and societal force.  The GOP will become a small party of a membership of only white people, the Grand Old "Get Off My Lawn" Party.  A sad, sad fate for the political movement that once preserved the Union.

Ha! You wish it was that way. The case is going somewhere and if you bothered to look at the court history thus far you'd see that. The DNC even stepped in on this! If it was just some nutjob they would have ignored it. And furthermore, if it were easily dimissed they would have gotten Obama to produce the document. But he hasn't and the question STILL IS; why not?

And for your information there isn't "clear and convincing evidence" that he was born in Hawaii. That's just a nothing statement. He won't give that information to the judge. He won't prove it. Based on your logic, Osama Bin Laden could run for President and we'd just have to take him at his word that he was a natural born citizen without him providing any documentation.

Phil Berg is not asking it be given to him, personally, but to the judge. And Obama hasn't. They motioned to dismiss and motioned to delay discovery. This is not some small town court and not a newbie lawyer. Phil Berg is a lifetime Democrat. Feel free to put your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand. It's sad that you don't even have a passing curiosity why Obama won't just hand the certificate to the judge. Nothing would seal the deal more for Obama. But he hasn't. If John McCain hadn't it would be all over the news constantly. They'd be updating what was happening in the case daily. But it's Obama and so there's no curiosity.

Why? Because people treat this like a ball game. They want their team to win and don't even care about the issues. So what Obama is out of the mainstream on issue after issue. Democrats want him because he's on their team and others because he's not George Bush.

But again, if you listen to the Michael Savage interview of Phil Berg, he gives some hints on what is about to happen. I think something very historic is about to happen. But feel free to tell us that we should just take Obama at his word......when McCain provided all the documents proving his eligibility requested of him. People think there's no way that someone would run if they weren't eligible so they dismiss it. And yet Obama still won't hand the judge the document that would ridicule the right and send him into the White House. Why? Because he was born in Kenya as his grandmother said.

[admin]

Update, the judge dismissed the case. Berg is immediately appealing it to the Supreme Court. Too bad the judge is simply taking Obama's word. Why not just ask him to present proof and end it? Can anyone who says they are a United States citizen run for President and not be questioned? When I saw the title of the article I thought I would read that Obama presented a vaulted copy of his birth certificate to prove he's a citizen. But no, Obama "motioned to dismiss" rather than produce a birth certificate. It just doesn't make any sense.

Here are Philip Berg's comments:

(Lafayette Hill, Pennsylvania – 10/25/08) - Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama's lack of "qualifications

[Howdyboyalan]

It could have just been thrown out because there was no case and that the certificate has been shown to everyone. There is always going to be people who look for ghosts and devils.

[sanctusivo]

Philip J. Berg, Esquire, the Attorney who filed suit against Barack H. Obama challenging Senator Obama's lack of "qualifications

[admin]

Bottom line is, I don't understand why Obama is fighting to keep from proving he's eligible. A picture on a website doesn't prove anything at all. A picture on a website is not even admissible in court. So again, the question that still hasn't been answered is, why is Obama not producing his birth certificate.

If it were some guy on Youtube or some blogger, why bother? But this guy is a former D. Attorney General from Pennsylvania who filed in Federal Court. And Obama filing motions to dismiss and then later a motion to delay discovery was much more time consuming and expensive in legal fees than simply handing his birth certificate to the judge. He could have removed all doubt.

But he would rather fight to keep from having to produce a basic document. Very strange. There are other details that you wouldn't know unless you read all of Phil Berg's arguments, but one is that Obama travelled to a certain country in the early 1980s (I don't remember the country or date but Berg gives the specific city and country and the exact day). And at the time, the country was not allowing American citizens to enter. Another citizenship had to be on your passport. Yet Obama entered just fine.

It's just odd. I'd feel better about Obama being President, even as much as I think he is too inexperienced, a socialist, a tax hiker and a baby killer, if he'd just produce proof he is a natural-born citizen. And if he truly is, I don't understand why he would fight to keep from proving that. Other Presidents provided much more than Obama. He has kept more in secret than any nominated candidate in history (source).

[Howdyboyalan]

Maybe he is keeping it a big secret so on inauguration day, he can get sworn in and hold it above his head in some kind of macabre ironic unveiling, it revealing he is some horrid blend of every nationality in the axis of evil.

Laughing manically he fires lightning bolts into the crowd as Darth Vader steps up beside him. The Uraki, orcs and goblins surround the crowd mashing people up. Meanwhile, all the children on earth playing video games cry as Dr Robotnik manifests himself from the Sega consoles with is army of Bavarian Child snatchers.

Meanwhile back to the actual inauguration, Dark Lord Obama is announcing his cabinet...Lex Luther, Hannibal, the Green goblin, V.I.K.I. (with an honor guard of NS-5's) and Queen Arachnia from star trek Voyager....oh and global warming becomes director of environment policy.

Lord Voldemort also simultaneously becomes Comrade president of the new Socialist wizarding community.


  All Hail Comrade Obama

[Mere Nick]

You forgot the bipartisanship of Obama as he keeps Beelzebush around with his Risian Hurricane Generator.

[sanctusivo]

Bottom line is, I don't understand why Obama is fighting to keep from proving he's eligible. A picture on a website doesn't prove anything at all. A picture on a website is not even admissible in court. So again, the question that still hasn't been answered is, why is Obama not producing his birth certificate.

What I think is that, since Obama knows he was born in Honolulu and that he is a U.S. citizen  (after all, since he's been able to travel overseas while in office, he therefore has a valid passport and therefore has a valid birth certificate to obtain said passport), he knows the lawsuit is absolutely ridiculous and he has no intention of co-operating with a nutjob like Phil Berg.  If I was being accused of something ridiculous and had the resources to tie my opponent in knots, I would mess with the guy and see how stupid he can act.

(Bottom line is that Phil is going to lose a lot of money and maybe even his law license.)

Phil goes boffo nutso, and everyone who has signed up for this tinfoil conspiracy looks like a bunch of fools.  Even McCain hasn't touched this one: that should be a sign for anyone.

Anyone who is taking Berg seriously has made a serious error in judgment.

[phoebe]

If he has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding it? Why is he dragging it out until after the election, when it seems that clearing his name/citizenship on this issue might garner him a few more votes? It isn't logical behavior of an innocent person.

[sanctusivo]

If he has nothing to hide, then why is he hiding it? Why is he dragging it out until after the election, when it seems that clearing his name/citizenship on this issue might garner him a few more votes? It isn't logical behavior of an innocent person.

First of all, it's not his responsibility to prove himself not liable ("innocence" is something more related to a criminal case); it's the plaintiff's obligation. If all Berg has is a Kenyan grandmother he can't get into the country and fourth-hand hearsay and rumor, a judge is going to throw him out of court and assess him opposing party's court costs for being an idiot.

It's logical behavior to defend himself in court, and he has in the most efficient way: the case has been tossed on a pre-trial motion.

[admin]

Sanctiviso,

Defend himself against what?! That's the whole question. Why would Obama want to "defend himself" from proving he's a natural born citizen? Why didn't McCain object? It was over a year ago that Obama and McCain were approached on this matter. McCain immediately gave proof. No him-hawing around and hiring lawyers to protect him from having to divulge proof he's a natural born citizen....or not. Obama has held this up over a year and actually fought it in court. It's not like he was accused of a crime. That's when you defend yourself. When you're asked in a Federal Court to prove you're eligible to hold the highest office in the world by presenting a single document, you do it!

Congratulations Obama supporters! Obama has just proven that it doesn't matter if he's constitutionally eligible or not because he can play the game of legal technicalities to keep from having to prove it. Bravo on backing such a great guy.



It is frightening that a possible President would have so little vetting and examination. Obama gets pass after pass after pass after pass and now it's on something that is nonpartisan. It's an issue that all Americans should be concerned with. Both he and John McCain were approached and asked to prove their eligibilty. One immediately provided information proving his eligibility. The other refused for a year, hired lawyers, fought having to prove eligibility in court by motioning to dismiss and delay discovery.

I'm telling you right now, if I were backing a candidate who put this much fuss and fight into refusing to prove he's a natural-born citizen and, thus, eligible to be President, I'd be thinking something is most certainly wrong with the picture. But who cares. He's Barack Hussein Obama the magic dragon and can do no wrong. Pathetic!

[Bon Voyage]

If Obama was born in Kenya, you can believe Hillary would not have let it slide.

[admin]

Obama's Birth Certificate Sealed by Hawaii Governor

Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.

HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances. Full Story

Hiding much are we?

[sanctusivo]

Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.

[admin]

Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? She's a liberal protecting another liberal from her state. There are liberal Republicans you know. Far too many.

[Charles Sloan]

Obama's Birth Certificate Sealed by Hawaii Governor

Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.

HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances. Full Story

Hiding much are we?

Methinks the lady doth protest too much...

[Charles Sloan]

Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.

Intrigue knows no partisanship.

[Mere Nick]

Now the governor of Hawaii is blocking any access to Obama's birth certificate. Because we will have no access to the truth! I have to wonder if this was part of the reason for his trip to Hawaii to see his grandmother who was at death's door but has now been downgraded to just under the weather.

The Governor of Hawaii is a Republican, dude.

I'm shocked to hear to that.  Really.  Hawaii is supposed to be a solid democrat state.  We learn something new every day.

[dustink]

Hiding much are we?
[/quote]

anyone else find it strange that Obama went to Hawaii this late in the campaign?  I know it was supposedly to see his sick grandmother, but he didn't take his family?  I find it strange, of course I think Obama is a liar and will do anything to become president.

[poptart]

Might be about time to bump this one.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts#comment

It's going to be an interesting few weeks, folks.