its reasonable that a woman be solvent ive struggled all my life to be why shoul

[scullions]

there is a criticism from achristian woman that she neednt be solvent this is ridiculous
i have worked all my life so a woman too ,the basis of my relationship is love once money matters are out of the way,woman want afree ride at expense of men what is this ,another form of golddigger
all woman want development of their mind so career,however i dont want women married to their career either no time for aman

[chosenone]

You cant have it both ways my son.
A true career women will want to concentrate on her job and career, and that will often be at the expense of her husband and children.What do you want, a wife who will spend time on you and your children or a wife who is out most the day at work with little time for you or the children? You want her to have money but you also want her to be there for you and be a good wife. Not always possible my friend.

What happens when you have kids and she has to give up work for some time? She wont be earning then will she?  Also I want to ask, where in the Bible does it say that he wife should be earning and supporting herself??. God made women to b ea help meet to their husbands and to be the one who looks after the family and children. I believe that He made the man to support the family financially where at all possible.

When women are on their own they need to work to support themselves, or if they are single parents, and when  they marry it is up to the couple as to what they do about finances.

Plese think this through and study what The Bible says.

[Nyoka]

chosenone  is right.   Also what happens if your wife becomes ill or disabled and can't work?  I am disabled and can't work and also have great trouble doing the housework.  My husband is wonderful and does what I can't do round the house.  This is what a marriage should be.  Would you be willing to help your wife if this happened to her?  Also what if you get ill or disabled and can't work but need her home to care for you?  Will you still expect her to work, look after the house and children and give you daily care? 

Marriage is about the couple pitching in and working things out to the best of their abilities with God guiding them.  The husband is head of the house , or should be, but all he does should be done in love toward and for his wife just as all the wife does should be done in love for and toward her husband and both parents need to be involved in the children as each parent can give different things to the children to grow and nurture them into responsible, caring adults.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Proverbs 31.

[JohnDB]

Yes she should be solvent.

That means that she has more than enough income to meet her own bills and debts...

and plans to continue to work to pay off those debts till after marriage is finalized. (two can live cheaper than each singly could)

Some careers require the person involved with that career to be absorbed by it. Their careers somehow change them to where I ain't attracted to them any longer. Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers, Schoolteachers, preachers and a few others to be specific.

Everyone is affected by their work or career to some extent. For some reason I find that these careers affect a woman too much. I can be friends...and sometimes great friends...but romance is out of the question. It has something to do with their identity that gets shifted inside of them that causes all the trouble.

The hands usually tell something to others what you might do for a living. Whether you work with them or not. A cook will have burns on their hands or forearms, Where an office worker will just have ink stained fingers. A mechanic will have grease encrusted nails....maybe a few busted knuckles.
Those things never bother me...it is what happens on the inside of a person that drives me nuts sometimes. They are a wonderful person until it comes to particular areas of their life. Which can nurture extortion, greed, abuse, and self engrandizement.

But I have also seen what the OP is talking about. Women who will go out and whose whole goal in life is to find a guy to pay their bills as well. They have run up huge debts on credit cards and consolidation loans so they can live a lifestyle that they wish and keep up an appearance with new clothes and car. Maybe some guys go for that...I dunno. Those women have no concept of money (in speech at least) But that is just it. A guy will work hard to provide....it is something that is always on the forefront of his mind and always greatest motivating factor. Any woman that can't understand that or identify with a man for trying to provide what his family needs will never connect with him emotionally.

It is like taking all the hard efforts he has done and making them out to be worthless in her eyes...the eyes that matter the most on this planet to him.

[chosenone]

Proverbs 31.

That doent say she was supporting herslf. It just says she did some buying and selling, Her and her husband were clearly rich as they had servants.There are other verses that tell women to take care of her husband and children and the home.

Goodness marriage is a covenant and when you marry everything that is his becomes hers and everything that is hers becomes his. When we married I had a house and he didnt. Did I complain because I bought a house into the marriage and he didnt? Of course not. I couldnt have cared less what he did or didnt have.The house is now 'ours' and he is the breadwinner and that is how we like it.
If a person is thinking along the lines of "well I have all this money/a house, and she has none that isnt fair", then they arent ready to marry as their whole attitude is wrong.

[chosenone]

Yes she should be solvent.

That means that she has more than enough income to meet her own bills and debts...

and plans to continue to work to pay off those debts till after marriage is finalized. (two can live cheaper than each singly could)

Some careers require the person involved with that career to be absorbed by it. Their careers somehow change them to where I ain't attracted to them any longer. Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers, Schoolteachers, preachers and a few others to be specific.

Everyone is affected by their work or career to some extent. For some reason I find that these careers affect a woman too much. I can be friends...and sometimes great friends...but romance is out of the question. It has something to do with their identity that gets shifted inside of them that causes all the trouble.

The hands usually tell something to others what you might do for a living. Whether you work with them or not. A cook will have burns on their hands or forearms, Where an office worker will just have ink stained fingers. A mechanic will have grease encrusted nails....maybe a few busted knuckles.
Those things never bother me...it is what happens on the inside of a person that drives me nuts sometimes. They are a wonderful person until it comes to particular areas of their life. Which can nurture extortion, greed, abuse, and self engrandizement.

But I have also seen what the OP is talking about. Women who will go out and whose whole goal in life is to find a guy to pay their bills as well. They have run up huge debts on credit cards and consolidation loans so they can live a lifestyle that they wish and keep up an appearance with new clothes and car. Maybe some guys go for that...I dunno. Those women have no concept of money (in speech at least) But that is just it. A guy will work hard to provide....it is something that is always on the forefront of his mind and always greatest motivating factor. Any woman that can't understand that or identify with a man for trying to provide what his family needs will never connect with him emotionally.

It is like taking all the hard efforts he has done and making them out to be worthless in her eyes...the eyes that matter the most on this planet to him.

  When you get married 'her' bills and debts and wages become 'their' bills and debts and wages just as 'his' bills and debts and earnings become 'their' bills and debts and earnings. Everthing becomes 'theirs' and not 'his' or 'hers'
My husband is able to earn a lot more than me so he works outside the home. When we met, I was working, as I was a single parent. I had a loan for the house which I guess you can call debt. The house which was mine is now ours and all the money he earns is also ours.

I am sure there are a few women who are after money only but I have yet to meet any. They usually go after the very rich I would think. I think there are many many women who aren't like this available to Christian men in particular, You guys are blessed to have a wide choice unlike us women.

[Debbie_55]

Gods will for woman was to be a helpmate to the man in every way, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, socially and physically. She was also created to bare the generations to come. A woman was not greater nor less than the man, but was his equal. Genesis 2:23-25 explains the bond of marriage. The two are united as one in the eyes of God. Ephesians 5:22-29 wives are to submit to their husbands as unto the Lord for the husband is the spiritual head of the wife. Man is the provider and protector of his family. Husbands, you are to love your wives like Christ loves his church. This is an unconditional love that looks on the inside of a person and not the adorning of the outside. It is a love with a pure heart.

Many women have professional careers before they get married and should not be expected to give their jobs up unless it's a mutual agreement. The man knows before he gets married how the women is involved with her job and should reflect on how this will carry over into the marriage. Man may be the Spiritual head of the house, but he is not a taskmaster that cracks a whip and makes his family his servants. It takes two that are evenly yoked to make a good marriage and if there are problems before the marriage they need to work out these problems first before ever thinking about getting married.

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Proverbs 31.

That doent say she was supporting herslf. It just says she did some buying and selling, Her and her husband were clearly rich as they had servants.There are other verses that tell women to take care of her husband and children and the home.

Goodness marriage is a covenant and when you marry everything that is his becomes hers and everything that is hers becomes his. When we married I had a house and he didnt. Did I complain because I bought a house into the marriage and he didnt? Of course not. I couldnt have cared less what he did or didnt have.The house is now 'ours' and he is the breadwinner and that is how we like it.
If a person is thinking along the lines of "well I have all this money/a house, and she has none that isnt fair", then they arent ready to marry as their whole attitude is wrong.

All I did was point the poster to a relevant portion of the Bible.

Why do you feel the need to argue with that?

[JohnDB]

Yes she should be solvent.

That means that she has more than enough income to meet her own bills and debts...

and plans to continue to work to pay off those debts till after marriage is finalized. (two can live cheaper than each singly could)

Some careers require the person involved with that career to be absorbed by it. Their careers somehow change them to where I ain't attracted to them any longer. Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers, Schoolteachers, preachers and a few others to be specific.

Everyone is affected by their work or career to some extent. For some reason I find that these careers affect a woman too much. I can be friends...and sometimes great friends...but romance is out of the question. It has something to do with their identity that gets shifted inside of them that causes all the trouble.

The hands usually tell something to others what you might do for a living. Whether you work with them or not. A cook will have burns on their hands or forearms, Where an office worker will just have ink stained fingers. A mechanic will have grease encrusted nails....maybe a few busted knuckles.
Those things never bother me...it is what happens on the inside of a person that drives me nuts sometimes. They are a wonderful person until it comes to particular areas of their life. Which can nurture extortion, greed, abuse, and self engrandizement.

But I have also seen what the OP is talking about. Women who will go out and whose whole goal in life is to find a guy to pay their bills as well. They have run up huge debts on credit cards and consolidation loans so they can live a lifestyle that they wish and keep up an appearance with new clothes and car. Maybe some guys go for that...I dunno. Those women have no concept of money (in speech at least) But that is just it. A guy will work hard to provide....it is something that is always on the forefront of his mind and always greatest motivating factor. Any woman that can't understand that or identify with a man for trying to provide what his family needs will never connect with him emotionally.

It is like taking all the hard efforts he has done and making them out to be worthless in her eyes...the eyes that matter the most on this planet to him.

  When you get married 'her' bills and debts and wages become 'their' bills and debts and wages just as 'his' bills and debts and earnings become 'their' bills and debts and earnings. Everthing becomes 'theirs' and not 'his' or 'hers'
My husband is able to earn a lot more than me so he works outside the home. When we met, I was working, as I was a single parent. I had a loan for the house which I guess you can call debt. The house which was mine is now ours and all the money he earns is also ours.

I am sure there are a few women who are after money only but I have yet to meet any. They usually go after the very rich I would think. I think there are many many women who aren't like this available to Christian men in particular, You guys are blessed to have a wide choice unlike us women.

So far the noisiest ones that have been knocking on my door:

Unemployed and living off of child's social security checks from deceased father. (also heavily in debt with all kinds of bad debt to her name...mostly stemming from her and her deceased husband)

Unemployed and living off of welfare and child support checks due to a chronic illness.

A woman who holds two part time jobs...neither skilled but carrying a heavy debt load of credit cards and car loans.

A woman with a rich boyfriend who has been paying her bills but she decided she wanted love instead and so began a relationship with me....but when money got tight she dumped me to go back to her rich boyfriend. (I am poor)

However...my last wife was a nurse, However no sooner than we get married than she starts whining that she wants to quit work and stay at home all the time. Considering the fact that our goal is to travel and do missions work after saving up enough money...She throws a fit when I remind her of this goal....

If I wanted a maid I could hire one
If I was only concerned with sex I can hire a prostitute
If I wish to be charitable I can be and often am.

I don't want to save anyone. I can't even save myself. I want a life partner. Not someone who needs me but simply wants me and enjoys being with me. ..and is there to support me and assist me while I do the missions work I have been called to do. I can and have made good money and earned great livings before. (about twice to three times what I make now) I gave it up to do what I am doing now because I believe it to be more important than anything else.

In face to face life...I am rather shy, and at first kinda mouthy when you first get to know me...but then you finally will get to meet me...And most never want to wait around that long. And it is on purpose...it is something I can do something about but choose not to.

You seem to have a very "Polly Anna" view of some of your counterparts. I am dead serious in my goals but the most vocal ones do not seem to believe so...
and hey, I can understand why some very fine individuals do not want to ever come with or ever even think of dating me. Missions life is very very tough and demanding. Only the strong survive...most don't. I ain't exactly expecting to but I am tough and can take a lot. I don't ever quit or give up. It is going to take an extra-ordinarily strong woman to join with me. And I am particular.

[Hot Ice]

Proverbs 31.

That doent say she was supporting herslf. It just says she did some buying and selling, Her and her husband were clearly rich as they had servants.There are other verses that tell women to take care of her husband and children and the home.

Goodness marriage is a covenant and when you marry everything that is his becomes hers and everything that is hers becomes his. When we married I had a house and he didnt. Did I complain because I bought a house into the marriage and he didnt? Of course not. I couldnt have cared less what he did or didnt have.The house is now 'ours' and he is the breadwinner and that is how we like it.
If a person is thinking along the lines of "well I have all this money/a house, and she has none that isnt fair", then they arent ready to marry as their whole attitude is wrong.

All I did was point the poster to a relevant portion of the Bible.

Why do you feel the need to argue with that?

She thought you were answering the question "Where in the Bible does it say that a wife is supposed to support herself?"

[Hot Ice]

Yes she should be solvent.

That means that she has more than enough income to meet her own bills and debts...

and plans to continue to work to pay off those debts till after marriage is finalized. (two can live cheaper than each singly could)

Some careers require the person involved with that career to be absorbed by it. Their careers somehow change them to where I ain't attracted to them any longer. Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers, Schoolteachers, preachers and a few others to be specific.

Everyone is affected by their work or career to some extent. For some reason I find that these careers affect a woman too much. I can be friends...and sometimes great friends...but romance is out of the question. It has something to do with their identity that gets shifted inside of them that causes all the trouble.

The hands usually tell something to others what you might do for a living. Whether you work with them or not. A cook will have burns on their hands or forearms, Where an office worker will just have ink stained fingers. A mechanic will have grease encrusted nails....maybe a few busted knuckles.
Those things never bother me...it is what happens on the inside of a person that drives me nuts sometimes. They are a wonderful person until it comes to particular areas of their life. Which can nurture extortion, greed, abuse, and self engrandizement.

But I have also seen what the OP is talking about. Women who will go out and whose whole goal in life is to find a guy to pay their bills as well. They have run up huge debts on credit cards and consolidation loans so they can live a lifestyle that they wish and keep up an appearance with new clothes and car. Maybe some guys go for that...I dunno. Those women have no concept of money (in speech at least) But that is just it. A guy will work hard to provide....it is something that is always on the forefront of his mind and always greatest motivating factor. Any woman that can't understand that or identify with a man for trying to provide what his family needs will never connect with him emotionally.

It is like taking all the hard efforts he has done and making them out to be worthless in her eyes...the eyes that matter the most on this planet to him.

  When you get married 'her' bills and debts and wages become 'their' bills and debts and wages just as 'his' bills and debts and earnings become 'their' bills and debts and earnings. Everthing becomes 'theirs' and not 'his' or 'hers'
My husband is able to earn a lot more than me so he works outside the home. When we met, I was working, as I was a single parent. I had a loan for the house which I guess you can call debt. The house which was mine is now ours and all the money he earns is also ours.

I am sure there are a few women who are after money only but I have yet to meet any. They usually go after the very rich I would think. I think there are many many women who aren't like this available to Christian men in particular, You guys are blessed to have a wide choice unlike us women.

We do have a wide choice--IF we are just talking about "single women".  If we are takling about GODLY available women, then this goes back to what I was talking about before.....

The one's that go after the very rich exist, but I couldn't say that it's true that we can form a reliable generalization about that.  I have had it happen to me, and I don't earn a lot at all.  It's that I had the potential to one day earn a lot, combined with the fact that, as JohnDB was saying, I was willing to work very hard to provide (make sacrifices, "go last" with getting my needs met, etc.).  Both those scenarios are quite common, although they involve different tactics.

[walker starr]

  Jarrod I was priviledged to be be married to a woman such as Proverbs 31 describes.  Thank you JESUS.

  On the lighter side. I had an aunt who used to tell me it was just as easy to fall in love with a wealthy
  woman as it is to fall in love with an impoverished one.  I never had experience with either.LOL

[chosenone]

Proverbs 31.

That doent say she was supporting herslf. It just says she did some buying and selling, Her and her husband were clearly rich as they had servants.There are other verses that tell women to take care of her husband and children and the home.

Goodness marriage is a covenant and when you marry everything that is his becomes hers and everything that is hers becomes his. When we married I had a house and he didnt. Did I complain because I bought a house into the marriage and he didnt? Of course not. I couldnt have cared less what he did or didnt have.The house is now 'ours' and he is the breadwinner and that is how we like it.
If a person is thinking along the lines of "well I have all this money/a house, and she has none that isnt fair", then they arent ready to marry as their whole attitude is wrong.

All I did was point the poster to a relevant portion of the Bible.

Why do you feel the need to argue with that?

She thought you were answering the question "Where in the Bible does it say that a wife is supposed to support herself?"

As usual you are exactly right Hotice.I did think that.

[chosenone]

John db
You have certainly encontered some bad women.Where do you find them????I have rarely met any women like that.

[chosenone]

Yes she should be solvent.

That means that she has more than enough income to meet her own bills and debts...

and plans to continue to work to pay off those debts till after marriage is finalized. (two can live cheaper than each singly could)

Some careers require the person involved with that career to be absorbed by it. Their careers somehow change them to where I ain't attracted to them any longer. Nurses, Doctors, Lawyers, Schoolteachers, preachers and a few others to be specific.

Everyone is affected by their work or career to some extent. For some reason I find that these careers affect a woman too much. I can be friends...and sometimes great friends...but romance is out of the question. It has something to do with their identity that gets shifted inside of them that causes all the trouble.

The hands usually tell something to others what you might do for a living. Whether you work with them or not. A cook will have burns on their hands or forearms, Where an office worker will just have ink stained fingers. A mechanic will have grease encrusted nails....maybe a few busted knuckles.
Those things never bother me...it is what happens on the inside of a person that drives me nuts sometimes. They are a wonderful person until it comes to particular areas of their life. Which can nurture extortion, greed, abuse, and self engrandizement.

But I have also seen what the OP is talking about. Women who will go out and whose whole goal in life is to find a guy to pay their bills as well. They have run up huge debts on credit cards and consolidation loans so they can live a lifestyle that they wish and keep up an appearance with new clothes and car. Maybe some guys go for that...I dunno. Those women have no concept of money (in speech at least) But that is just it. A guy will work hard to provide....it is something that is always on the forefront of his mind and always greatest motivating factor. Any woman that can't understand that or identify with a man for trying to provide what his family needs will never connect with him emotionally.

It is like taking all the hard efforts he has done and making them out to be worthless in her eyes...the eyes that matter the most on this planet to him.

  When you get married 'her' bills and debts and wages become 'their' bills and debts and wages just as 'his' bills and debts and earnings become 'their' bills and debts and earnings. Everthing becomes 'theirs' and not 'his' or 'hers'
My husband is able to earn a lot more than me so he works outside the home. When we met, I was working, as I was a single parent. I had a loan for the house which I guess you can call debt. The house which was mine is now ours and all the money he earns is also ours.

I am sure there are a few women who are after money only but I have yet to meet any. They usually go after the very rich I would think. I think there are many many women who aren't like this available to Christian men in particular, You guys are blessed to have a wide choice unlike us women.

We do have a wide choice--IF we are just talking about "single women".  If we are takling about GODLY available women, then this goes back to what I was talking about before.....

The one's that go after the very rich exist, but I couldn't say that it's true that we can form a reliable generalization about that.  I have had it happen to me, and I don't earn a lot at all.  It's that I had the potential to one day earn a lot, combined with the fact that, as JohnDB was saying, I was willing to work very hard to provide (make sacrifices, "go last" with getting my needs met, etc.).  Both those scenarios are quite common, although they involve different tactics.

  Even so hotice, there are still lots more available Christian women than men, and I expect the number of godly ones arent that big in either
camp. Thats why I found my dh on the internet, cos I have never met one available Christian guy of anywhere near my age whether godly or not.  On the other hand, there are quite a few middle aged single women in my church (mainly divorced, like I was) Probably about 10 or 12, and no men. Even on the Christian dating sites, the number of women to men of my sort of age (40's, as I was then) was abut 4 or 5 to one. I am blessed indeed to have found my great husband. 

[ForgivenDaughter]

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman has to stay home and take care of her husband, children and home?  How is working outside the home not part of taking care of those things?

I understood Proverbs 31 to mean that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to own property, make investments and run a company/work to provide for her family and/or employees, while being able to take care of her husband, children, and home - God made us (generally speaking) capable of multi-tasking for a reason - it was truly an ingenious design.

[RED SHIFT1]

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman has to stay home and take care of her husband, children and home?  How is working outside the home not part of taking care of those things?

I understood Proverbs 31 to mean that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to own property, make investments and run a company/work to provide for her family and/or employees, while being able to take care of her husband, children, and home - God made us (generally speaking) capable of multi-tasking for a reason - it was truly an ingenious design.

You would have a fit had you seen what I aw yesterday!  I was watching CNN.  The news person was interviewing a woman psychologist (yes..a woman!) about a nine-year old boy who had commited suicide.  She was asked about the possible reasons for suicide among kids in general that age.  Her reply was quite shocking I imagine to most feminists watching it...I am surpised she was not censored. 

This lady placed the blame at the foot of the feminist movement in no uncertain terms:

"In 1975 in a similar recession. 70% of homes had at least one parent there at all times.  Usually the mother.  Now it is 30%...our kids are being raised by everyone else other than their parents (I'll say Amen to that myself after having forked out over $50k in the last 11 years for daycare...)

[Hot Ice]

  Even so hotice, there are still lots more available Christian women than men, and I expect the number of godly ones arent that big in either
camp. Thats why I found my dh on the internet, cos I have never met one available Christian guy of anywhere near my age whether godly or not.  On the other hand, there are quite a few middle aged single women in my church (mainly divorced, like I was) Probably about 10 or 12, and no men. Even on the Christian dating sites, the number of women to men of my sort of age (40's, as I was then) was abut 4 or 5 to one. I am blessed indeed to have found my great husband. 

I have seen some of what you're talking about, where I live.  The main thing I saw in common is that yes, the majority of these available women were available due to a divorce.  But they were not Biblically eligible:  They had divorcced unbiblically.

I can imagine that you were being absolutely accurate in the way you described your situation.  Don't doubt that for a minute.  I just wouldn't be able to confidently accept translating it to a generalization--to be applied to the Christian world.  That seem unfair?

[Hot Ice]

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman has to stay home and take care of her husband, children and home?  How is working outside the home not part of taking care of those things?

I understood Proverbs 31 to mean that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to own property, make investments and run a company/work to provide for her family and/or employees, while being able to take care of her husband, children, and home - God made us (generally speaking) capable of multi-tasking for a reason - it was truly an ingenious design.

I can't see how that passage was talking about the woman owning anything at all.  She was married, in every sense of the word--and didn't demonstrate a hint of the "closet divorcedness" that has crept into the 21st century thinking, the thinking that says "I" own this.  She was all about "we", because she was all about the Lord.

There is nothing in that passage that suggests independent decision-making from either her, or her husband.

[Hot Ice]

If solvent means that she [wife] should be expected to take care of herself while living in the same house as the husband, I couldn't disagree more:  That is no kind of marriage at all.  If the wife HAS to take care of herself, or even if she INSISTS on taking care of herself, you have an imposter of a marriage. 

No husband should be able to look himself in the mirror at all, with a wife that HAS to care for herself, in terms of provision.  God is certainly the provider, but it is simiply his responsibility to provide the means by which the family may be cared for.  The wife in Prov. 31 considered a field and bought it (with whose money?  it NEVER said she was out working like a man, earning wages!  It never addressed that!).  Said that she was interacting with and providing for servants (with whose money?). 

Was the wife doing all of this out of her own whim, saying (in effect) to her husband, "screw you!  I want to do this my way; you do what you do, sitting in the gates of the city, but stay out of my way, until payday; then, give me your check, to finance what I want to do for MY life, MY way, in MY time"?  Not a chance.  There was marital HARMONY there, and both husband and wife were looking out for each other--not correcting and controlling and competing, but providing, protecting, loving, nurturing, sacrificing.

[ForgivenDaughter]

Hmmm, choice of words is so important....this medium can be so difficult....

Money - joint - regardless of who earns it
Decisions - joint - regardless of what it is about (within reason - I'm not saying wifey has to consult hubby on what's for dinner  good grief)

Can't a woman be a Proverbs 31 and still be solvent? - hmmm, definition please:

(from dictionary.com)
sol-vent  /ˈsɒlvənt/   
–adjective 1. able to pay all just debts.
2. having the power of dissolving; causing solution.

I would say then, based on this, that a woman can be solvent while married - whether she works outside the home or not - because everything becomes joint - however, running up debt without consulting with hubby is not wise.

A marriage is a team - and as they say - there is no "I" in team....

(hmmmm, where did I say I was a feminist?....)

[Wycliffes_Shillelagh]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that Proverbs 31 says that a woman should support herself separately from her husband.  I was simply pointing people to a part of the Bible that talks about wives and their employment.

I am amazed how much you all infer from my simply putting a reference up there.

[chosenone]

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman has to stay home and take care of her husband, children and home? How is working outside the home not part of taking care of those things?

I understood Proverbs 31 to mean that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to own property, make investments and run a company/work to provide for her family and/or employees, while being able to take care of her husband, children, and home - God made us (generally speaking) capable of multitasking for a reason - it was truly an ingenious design.

I can't see how that passage was talking about the woman owning anything at all. She was married, in every sense of the word--and didn't demonstrate a hint of the "closet divorcedness" that has crept into the 21st century thinking, the thinking that says "I" own this.  She was all about "we", because she was all about the Lord.

There is nothing in that passage that suggests independent decision-making from either her, or her husband.

 I agree,
  I also cant see where in the Bible that God says that women must be solvent or working.That seems to be somthing that modern day Christian guys are demanding. I know that women have to work if they are single/divorced or whatever and many do work when they are married, but I still see the Bible as saying that generally the husband should be the wage earner and the wife the home maker and carer of the family.
The trouble is that today the job of being a wife and mother and home maker isn't valued or thought to be important, but to God it is far more important than any career.  Two verses that seem to imply what God wants for wives and mothers are
Titus 2v4-5 and 1 Timothy 5v14.
Women in the time that Jesus came to earth were usually financially dependant on their husbands anyway.

  If you want a woman who earns a lot of money then you will have to wait for one to come along, but dont expect her to be able to give you as much time as a woman who works part time or who wants to be a homemaker. There are only 24 hours in the day.

[chosenone]

If solvent means that she [wife] should be expected to take care of herself while living in the same house as the husband, I couldn't disagree more:  That is no kind of marriage at all.  If the wife HAS to take care of herself, or even if she INSISTS on taking care of herself, you have an imposter of a marriage. 

No husband should be able to look himself in the mirror at all, with a wife that HAS to care for herself, in terms of provision.  God is certainly the provider, but it is simiply his responsibility to provide the means by which the family may be cared for.  The wife in Prov. 31 considered a field and bought it (with whose money?  it NEVER said she was out working like a man, earning wages!  It never addressed that!).  Said that she was interacting with and providing for servants (with whose money?). 

Was the wife doing all of this out of her own whim, saying (in effect) to her husband, "screw you!  I want to do this my way; you do what you do, sitting in the gates of the city, but stay out of my way, until payday; then, give me your check, to finance what I want to do for MY life, MY way, in MY time"?  Not a chance.  There was marital HARMONY there, and both husband and wife were looking out for each other--not correcting and controlling and competing, but providing, protecting, loving, nurturing, sacrificing.

Hotice
A really good post.Marriage is sharing EVERYTHING, whether it be a car, money, a house, inheritance, debts etc. If you dont want to share anything with your wife then dont get married.

I know a couple, whose marriage was finally ended after the wife went back to work full time and from then on opened HER own bank account for HER money, while all the years that she didnt work everything was THEIRS. They still had a joint bank account which the husbands money went into which paid for everything, while HER money which  went into HER account was apparently for her and her alone. Now wheres the fairness and sharing in that? Its like what yours is mine and whats mine is mine. Now if he had asked that he had some of his wages for himself there would have been hell to pay.

I know a couple who have been living together for about 4 years, They are middle aged, They each pay a certain amount for different bills and everything is his or mine, never ours. When she lost her job she was getting worried about  how she was going to pay HER Bills as she had no money coming in. Now what sort of relationship is that? Its like being flat mates.

  Personally I cant see anywhere in the Bible where it tells men to find a women who earns a lot of money so that she can support herself, and so that he doesnt have to bother.

[chosenone]

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman has to stay home and take care of her husband, children and home?  How is working outside the home not part of taking care of those things?

I understood Proverbs 31 to mean that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to own property, make investments and run a company/work to provide for her family and/or employees, while being able to take care of her husband, children, and home - God made us (generally speaking) capable of multi-tasking for a reason - it was truly an ingenious design.

You would have a fit had you seen what I aw yesterday!  I was watching CNN.  The news person was interviewing a woman psychologist (yes..a woman!) about a nine-year old boy who had commited suicide.  She was asked about the possible reasons for suicide among kids in general that age.  Her reply was quite shocking I imagine to most feminists watching it…I am surpised she was not censored. 

This lady placed the blame at the foot of the feminist movement in no uncertain terms:

“In 1975 in a similar recession. 70% of homes had at least one parent there at all times.  Usually the mother.  Now it is 30%...our kids are being raised by everyone else other than their parents (I’ll say Amen to that myself after having forked out over $50k in the last 11 years for daycare…)”

In essence, what she was saying was that when parents are out of the home all the time for work or whatever, suicides among children will go up.

I have posted this myself:  a woman’s priority is her home and family.  As you pointed out, the Proverbs 31 woman handled her home…but I imagine had she had to pick between her real estate career and her family she would have chosen the latter.  She would not have chosen this “super-mom” disease that so many women seem to love chasing around. 

As much as I hate it, the man has been given the primary role for support. 

wow thats scary isnt it about the suicides. I wonder if it is because kids come home troubled about something and here is no one there to talk to?. By the time the parents come home from work, everyone is so busy that theres no time to listen.
I personally think it is vital that one parent is there when the kids come home from school when they are young.  A while ago I was talking to my son, now aged 31, about when he was small. He actually said that he was far happier that I was here when he came home from school, than if I had worked and we had more money and more material possessions. Many of my friends did work, few of them needed to (in fact many of their husbands earnt more than mine) and I thought that what he said was very important. 

[chosenone]

  Even so hotice, there are still lots more available Christian women than men, and I expect the number of godly ones aren't that big in either
camp. That's why I found my dh on the internet, cos I have never met one available Christian guy of anywhere near my age whether godly or not.  On the other hand, there are quite a few middle aged single women in my church (mainly divorced, like I was) Probably about 10 or 12, and no men. Even on the Christian dating sites, the number of women to men of my sort of age (40's, as I was then) was abut 4 or 5 to one. I am blessed indeed to have found my great husband. 

I have seen some of what you're talking about, where I live.  The main thing I saw in common is that yes, the majority of these available women were available due to a divorce.  But they were not Biblically eligible:  They had divorced .

I can imagine that you were being absolutely accurate in the way you described your situation.  Don't doubt that for a minute.  I just wouldn't be able to confidently accept translating it to a generalization--to be applied to the Christian world.  That seem unfair?

I don't know enough abut the 12 or so divorced women in my church to know if they are Biblically divorced or not. However I do know several divorced women who were divorced for Biblical reasons, so I know there are some about..I guess its the same with men though.
When I was on internet dating sites I wasn't really interested in a man who had never been married (remember I was late 40's)or a widow (as there are unique problems with that also) and so all the man I got to know were divorced which is what I wanted. Out of the three I met in person, they were all divorced due to their wives adultery, so that was fine by me.

My husband's ex met another man, and divorced him, We didn't find out till 2 years later that she had slept with him on several occasions, but to me if she was having a relationship with another man and divorced her husband to be with him, then that was Biblical grounds for him to be able to marry again.After all if your spouse divorces you there isn't a lot you can do is there.  I am sure there must be a similar number of women who have Biblical divorces as there are men, but that maybe you have just been unlucky up till now.

[Hot Ice]

Meeting women that are pushing with everything they've got toward Almighty God--that match with me, attraction and personality-wise--is something that nobody is really able to explain, so far.  It bugs me more than I can say, but I'm going to let "I don't know" be what it is.

There are certainly those guys out there that demand (good word choice, chosenone) a woman who makes a lot of money, and those women out there that demand that they make their own money, having an escape hatch, and a wrench in the marriage that they can use--in the form of "my" stuff.

[Hot Ice]

I can imagine that you were being absolutely accurate in the way you described your situation.  Don't doubt that for a minute.  I just wouldn't be able to confidently accept translating it to a generalization--to be applied to the Christian world.  That seem unfair?

I think that what I meant when I wrote this is that I can imagine it to be possible that what you were saying about the availability (Biblical eligibility, godliness, etc.) of single women in your country to be accurate, and at the SAME time, not a good generalization to place on other countries (like here in the U.S.A.), where the dynamic is different.  I was asking if you thought THAT was unfair.

[Hot Ice]

Where exactly in the Bible does it say that a woman has to stay home and take care of her husband, children and home?  How is working outside the home not part of taking care of those things?

I understood Proverbs 31 to mean that it is perfectly acceptable for a woman to own property, make investments and run a company/work to provide for her family and/or employees, while being able to take care of her husband, children, and home - God made us (generally speaking) capable of multi-tasking for a reason - it was truly an ingenious design.

Nothing in the Bible says anyone HAS to do anything except die, and answer to Jesus Christ (heaven/hell, rewards, etc.). 

But the point of the Bible's teaching has never been what we HAVE to do, but what is AVAILABLE to do......for the express purpose of honoring and loving God.  Looking at God's design, for women to be keepers at home (Titus 2:5), among other things, you don't find any concern of God's to have the woman outside in the employment world.  Mankind (womankind) put that there, and charged God with it.  The question "is it WRONG for a woman to work?" is obvious:  God never said it's WRONG.  But He did clearly demonstrate that it's the wrong question, altogether.  God weighs our hearts and spirits; His Word, the two-edged sword, reveals our heart, with it's intentions, and motives (Hebrew 4:12).  If any woman is pushing for a career against what the Holy Spirit says (or even nudges) for her to do, if any man pushes for a woman to have a career, against the principles of the Word--they are WRONG.......because of their heart, not because of the job.

[Hot Ice]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that Proverbs 31 says that a woman should support herself separately from her husband.  I was simply pointing people to a part of the Bible that talks about wives and their employment.

I am amazed how much you all infer from my simply putting a reference up there.

I failed to see anything in Proverbs 31 about any wife being employed.  Plenty of people have inferred that there is, but the scripture doesn't say so.

[walker starr]

/quote]I failed to see anything in Proverbs 31 about any wife being employed.  Plenty of people have inferred that there is, but the scripture doesn't say so.

  HOT ICE if you are sincere and want scripture that praise the employment of a wife
  read PROVERB CH 31 verses 12 through31  It doesn't mention a 9-5 job.  It describes self employment.
  Self employment often requires hard work and longer hours.  But you cannot diminish the value of that woman!
  One more thing.She did not do it because she HAD to do it.  Rather because she loves her husband and values her marriage.

[Hot Ice]

/quote]I failed to see anything in Proverbs 31 about any wife being employed.  Plenty of people have inferred that there is, but the scripture doesn't say so.

  HOT ICE if you are sincere and want scripture that praise the employment of a wife
  read PROVERB CH 31 verses 12 through31  It doesn't mention a 9-5 job.  It describes self employment.
  Self employment often requires hard work and longer hours.  But you cannot diminish the value of that woman!
  One more thing.She did not do it because she HAD to do it.  Rather because she loves her husband and values her marriage.

Well, while I'm sincere in anything that I've asked for here, or any other forum, I have to say that I wasn't asking for scripture that praises the employment of a wife.  I was only responding to the application of Proverbs 31 to whether or not women are called to always stay at home, or whether the Lord even cares about what we have today--many women chasing after careers, and having it "all".  I disagree with those who think that this passage is encouraging wives to work outside the home, or that any reason a wife comes up with to do so is justified by this passage.

The scripture you gave me indeed does have the wife selling her fine linen that she made (verse 24) and buying a field (verse 16).  It talks about her working much harder than most of the people I know today, in fact!  But nowhere does it immply that she left her house, and the responsibilities of a wife and mother, and chased after a career for herself--leaving the cost to her family.  I was resisting the practice of laying those decisions at the feet of scripture, when scripture never suggested that.

[chosenone]

Just to be clear, I wasn't saying that Proverbs 31 says that a woman should support herself separately from her husband.  I was simply pointing people to a part of the Bible that talks about wives and their employment.

I am amazed how much you all infer from my simply putting a reference up there.

I failed to see anything in Proverbs 31 about any wife being employed.  Plenty of people have inferred that there is, but the scripture doesn't say so.

I agree, She was actually employed in running her home and looking after her family.That was her primary concern, even though she had servants which  few women have these days. She bought a field. So what. How long did that take from her day, 10 minutes? That isnt working.

[walker starr]

   I'm laughing at the thought of swine grubbing for pearls.