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Offline dgdodd

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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2003, 10:41:35 AM »
Thanks for making it clear Booty.   :D   That is much better.  My name actually comes from Acts 17:34, given to me by my parents.  Although, I was born after they came back from living in El Salvador.  Perhaps, they picked it up there.   ???

Damaris

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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2003, 10:41:35 AM »

Offline farmboy

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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2003, 08:42:29 AM »
Hi ,
Any comments about the news last night and this morning about a study concerning the benefits of daily, moderate consumption of alcohol beverages?  It showed one or two drinks 3 to 4 days per week reduced heart attacks 32 percent.  And daily use reduced heart attacks 37 percent.  

About a year ago, one study showed one to 4 glasses of wine per week reduced stroke by 75 percent, if I remember right.  

These benefits, if true, are no small effect.  Of course, no one is saying to go out and start drinking.  

Just wondering what you might think.

In His Love,
Max

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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2003, 08:42:29 AM »

Offline spurly

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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2003, 09:16:07 AM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (farmboy @ Jan. 09 2003,09:42)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Hi ,
Any comments about the news last night and this morning about a study concerning the benefits of daily, moderate consumption of alcohol beverages?  It showed one or two drinks 3 to 4 days per week reduced heart attacks 32 percent.  And daily use reduced heart attacks 37 percent.  

About a year ago, one study showed one to 4 glasses of wine per week reduced stroke by 75 percent, if I remember right.  

These benefits, if true, are no small effect.  Of course, no one is saying to go out and start drinking.  

Just wondering what you might think.

In His Love,
Max[/quote]
I'm headed to the Quicker Liquor today  :pray:

Kevin
He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.  Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.

Offline farmboy

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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2003, 05:40:10 PM »
Hello again,
It seems that my post this morning touched a raw nerve, to some, and maybe a little anger.  Yes, I also was taught to not touch any, not so much by 'thou shalt not' but by general negative comments about drinking.  And yes, there was occasionally one who would say 'NONE'!  Even recently, I heard one say that wine in scripture was either fermented or not, as if to say that the wine Paul told Timothy to use would be non-alcoholic.

But now the question is, can we get  by that spirit of condemnation (alcohol, and the one who uses a little) and maybe be a responsible user.  Would we want to?  I think all of us would agree that the abuse of alcohol is a major problem in our society.    Would responsible use in our family situations remove that 'forbidden fruit' desire in our kids.  I have wondered that, and think that any guess would be only a guess.

Also, I am sure there would be many who wold be hurt to see others use any alcoholic drinks.  How do we deal with them, in love.  In 1 Corinthians 6:12 Paul says everything is not beneficial, even if it is permissible. :frowning:

In His Love,
Max

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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2003, 05:40:10 PM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline spurly

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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2003, 06:11:16 PM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (farmboy @ Jan. 09 2003,6:40)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]But now the question is, can we get  by that spirit of condemnation (alcohol, and the one who uses a little) and maybe be a responsible user.  Would we want to?  I think all of us would agree that the abuse of alcohol is a major problem in our society.    Would responsible use in our family situations remove that 'forbidden fruit' desire in our kids.  I have wondered that, and think that any guess would be only a guess.

Also, I am sure there would be many who wold be hurt to see others use any alcoholic drinks.  How do we deal with them, in love.  In 1 Corinthians 6:12 Paul says everything is not beneficial, even if it is permissible. :frowning:

In His Love,
Max[/quote]
To answer your first question, I have seen studies that say that less alcoholics come from families that use alcohol in moderation than families that are teetotaler or abusers - though I can't site those studies right now.

My family was one where alcohol was used in moderation, and neither my brothers or I are abusers.  One brother drinks occasionally, the other brother and I do not.  All personal choices that do not reflect on our faith.

As to how to handle those who would be hurt if they saw another Christian drinking, I say we have to be careful in how we use our Christian liberty.

When I was still living in NC, we had a youth revival.  The worship team we brought in believed in the liberty that they had to have an occasional drink.  After one night of the youth revival, they were at Applebees restaraunt, and one of the couples from our church saw them drinking a beer.  Luckily, they were not the type to make a federal case out of a Christian's use of liberty.  They did not think it was the smartest thing to do, and their comment was, "what if one of the students saw them".  My thought was that it might be a problem, but it might help the student learn moderation.

Just my thoughts,

Kevin
He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.  Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.

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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2003, 06:11:16 PM »



Offline 4kidsandadog

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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2003, 09:27:20 PM »
Good points, Kevin.  Hmm, everything I read in the Bible tells me that people will know we are His because of what we do, not what we don't do! :angel:

Karen

Offline susieface

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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2003, 01:22:26 PM »
I believe there are many reasons why people drink, whether it be in moderation or not.  Some may be doing it to escape, but as far as teens go, I strictly believe they do it because they feel it is "FUN".  No other reason.  Some may think it helps them fit in, but I believe the majority do it for recreation.  Not one person I knew in high school or college did it for any other reason other than fun.  Of course I went to a christian high school and college, so all were christians and were from christian homes, so a little doing something the parents didn't want them to played into it a little, but it was mostly out of fun.  As far as the non-christian friends, the same went for them.  They did it because they thought it was fun.
  I hate to say it, but all those anti-drug and alcohol ads or programs do not deal with this aspect of it much.  There always has to be some underlying reason.
  When it stopped being fun and got stupid was when everyone quit.  I know very few from those days who still drink.
IMO
Susie

Offline spurly

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« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2003, 08:55:07 AM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Booty @ Jan. 04 2003,09:53)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Kevin,

I did not find my choice there?

Christians should only drink when it would not be a sin before God to do so.[/quote]
Sorry about not putting your choice on the poll.  However, your explanation is a good one, and it throws it back into each individual's own hands before God.

Kevin
He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; like one from whom men hide their face; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.  Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.  But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed.

Offline Booty

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« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2003, 11:00:24 AM »
Could be, it is very common in Spanish speaking countries. But then Biblical names do tend to be.
Dios te bendiga
Booty
iglesia de Cristo
Puerto Piritu, Edo Anzoategui
Venezuela

Comprado con sangre por Cristo

Offline Son of a Preacher Man

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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2003, 10:52:26 PM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]For one, why do they drink?  It isn't because beer or wine taste good.  It isn't with a meal.  It is simply to fit in with everyone else, to be popular or to escape from some problem.  Those can't be good reasons to drink alcohol.
I think there is a lot of strength in never drinking at all.  That is the choice that my wife and I have made.  :)[/quote]
TRL:

I admire the decision you and your wife have made.  There is a whole lot of strength in not drinking.  

Forgive me as I share a few thoughts from near-past experience.

Why do young people drink?  Valid question.

I didn't drink until I was 21ish.  For many years I said it was because of my [legalistic] faith.  I also reasoned that beer smelled so bad, it had to taste even worse.  At the time I was a dedicated athlete. An injury ended those pursuits I quickly learned several things about myself.

1. The reason I didn't drink had nothing to do with my false perception that drinking in and of itself is a sin.  My abstinance had more to do with my quest for optimum athletic performance.  I understand what Paul meant when he said "such regulations indeed have the appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility, and their  their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence." (Col 2:23)   My life eventually became a case and point.

2. The first time I tried beer, I liked it instantly. While studying at a buddies house, I found myself alone with nobody was around.   I pilferred a single beer (mostly because he had two refridgerators and the only thing they had was beer--stacks and stacks of beer on every shelf in both), and as I had my first beer I surprisingly discovered I loved the taste, hence ending my personal fantasy that it tasted bad.  It tasted great!  I couldn't believe something could smell bad and still taste good.  Later I learned that rum goes with this, whiskey with that, and Margaritas taste great, etc.  Some hooch used by HS and College kids doesn't even have a taste at all!  Wine was trickier because of all the different kinds, but wine coolers and other malted drinks taste like koolaid.  I'm sure for some the taste is acquired or that it never is acquired, but many people quickly find booze that tastes good to them.

3.  There can be no denying the pull to "fit in" and drink amongst teens and college students binge because... well, it's college and mommy and daddy aren't around.

4.  But this is key: escape.  We have an entire generation now that views the world in a jaded way.  The American Dream is a pipe dream and they know it!  I'm part of that bunch.  Drinking might be about perceived popularity or peer pressure for some, but, truth be told, when I abstained my teammates and classmates RESPECTED me big time!  It wasn't hard to say no and I never felt pressured and I was oh, so popular in both HS and college.  But once my life hit the reality of the world--no more athletics, no more fiance after she was raped by somebody and she couldn't bring herself to see me again--the bottle provided an escape.

Fortunately I didn't wind up AA material.  I was a binge drinker for several years though.  It's been years since I was inoxicated and I thank God everyday that he spared me the addiction.  Many bingers do not escape.  

Some drink for courage (pick-up girls, boys), some drink to forget, some drink out of boredom, and as much as I hate to admit it, I think the urge/compulsion to drink is less about fitting in than we (ministers, servants, etc.) would like to admit.  Sure, that's one reason for some, but the overall problem is much bigger.

Well... all of that was just this one jerks oppinion, for whatever it's worth.

Keep up the good work, my brother.  Each individual will drink for their own reasons... and statistically speaking, most young people will.  I understand your frustration as I deal with the same issues in my work.  Keep the faith.


SoPM
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Offline Richard

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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2003, 09:15:27 AM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote [/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Not suprising, Farmboy.  Didn't Paul tell Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach?

Bill[/quote]
It's that "little" part some of us have trouble with.
I've never been very good at moderation in anything.

Richard
Sow for yourselves righteousness,  reap the fruit of unfailing love, and break up your unplowed ground;
for it is time to seek the LORD,  until he comes and showers righteousness on you.
Hos 10:12 NIV

Offline Barb1957

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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2003, 01:45:30 PM »
[!--QuoteBegin--][/span][table border=\"0\" align=\"center\" width=\"95%\" cellpadding=\"3\" cellspacing=\"1\"][tr][td]Quote (Son of a Preacher Man @ Jan. 09 2003,10:12)[/td][/tr][tr][td id=\"QUOTE\"][!--QuoteEBegin--]Okay, stepping off my SoaPbox now! But I want to know-- Did they feed you this rubish, too?[/quote]
Yeah I guess, to a degree, not that everyone that heard it paid attention to it.  

What beverage is best to wash that rubbish down anyway?
 :yummy:  ???
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. -Deuteronomy 6:4
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Offline seekr

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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2003, 07:33:11 PM »
The issue about anything we do boils down to what is inside of us and where we are in our growth. Jesus said "it's not what goes into a man that makes him 'unclean'...". If our hearts are right with God and we're not smugly declaring our independence and freedom with no regard for others, then everything may be permissable. God may allow a lot in some of us because of where we are and who we have been. It isn't sin if God declares it clean. And didn't He do just that about everything? I have actually fought God over the things He has declared clean in my life, because of my past religiosity, and He has gently shown me that many things were not sin for me, and that this is what it would take to set me free and heal me.

seekr

Offline janine

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« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2003, 08:18:22 AM »
I'd think it was more meaningful to be known by what I do, as the Christ lives in me.... and have the things I avoid being only a side note.
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Offline Barb1957

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« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2003, 02:25:30 PM »
Janine, gmta ... I just had the thought, "only if the Christians are well pureed" ...

(not sure how to do the little accented "e" dooey)
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. -Deuteronomy 6:4
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