GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: A TEST OF FAITH  (Read 3052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dr. Truth

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Manna: 9
    • View Profile
Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #35 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 12:37:31 »
Quote
1)Again I will ask you, If you don't speak in tongues, How do you know you are baptised in the Holy Ghost???, As it is the Biblical evidence.
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke in tongues, Proving that tongues is the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Jesus did say the believer shall speak in tongues, Meaning ALL believers.
One of the operations of tongues it to build us up.  1 Cor 14: 4.
ARE you saying that God only want's some Christians to have this gift to build them up, And not for other to have it,??. If so, You are saying that God is a respecter of people, And that makes Him a sinner.
So what you are saying is, GOD IS A SINNER..

I never insinuated that God was a sinner, but as I've stated prior, you are not correctly understanding what "respecter of Persons" means. Tongues were given for the bolstering of the bolstering of the people, true, but it's not the only spiritual sign one can receive. And even if you disagree with my interpretation of 1st Corinthians 12 regarding tongues, it's indisputable that not everyone will receive the same gifts. If God gives one gift to someone, and not to another, is he a respecter of persons also?

Quote
The gifts in 1Cor 12, Have nothing to do with our everyday, Spiritual tongue which we use in prayer.

I don't recall that distinction being made. Nor to I recall any scripture that says we need to pray in tongues. What would be the purpose? God can understand us perfectly in plain old English.

Quote
Everyone has at least one of the gifts in 1 Cor 12. At least they should seek after them.

According to your logic, this makes God a respecter of persons.
Quote
They are towards our profeting.
But then we have the tongue  the buld us up.
We have the tongue that is our Spirit praying.
If it wasn't needed, Why would God give it to us?Confused. WAKE UP.

I never said tongues weren't needed. Sometimes they are. But they aren't always needed.

Quote
Paul said I will pray with me understanding and with me spirit, [Tongues], And that is God's will for all His people.

But did it say Paul was going to pray in tongues? If all he said was that he was going to pray with his spirit, that is not the same thing.

Quote
2)The tongues in 1 Cor 12: 10, Are a different kind of tongue, PLEASE NOTE v10,
"Divers kinds of tongues".. See v28, "Diversities of tongues",
PLEASE NOTE, These are only one of the eight operations of tongues, They are tongues that go with the interpretation, V10, U& v28, PLEASE KEEP THE BIBLE IN IT'S RIGHT CONTEXT.

Okay. I can see where you're coming from here. But I don't see the evidence that says unequivocally that tongues are essential. Is it your opinion that a Christian has not received the Spirit if they have not spoken in tongues? I know lots and lots of what you call "true, bible believing Christians" who don't or haven't. How do you explain the earnest seekers of righteousness that believe in basic orthodox Christianity? Is God intentionally leaving them out?

Quote
3)The lds who spoke in tongues and did miracles, were used by the devil, Because God will never confirm the mormon church, Or give them the gifts of the Spirit

And herein lies the problem with your argument. It is illogical to lay down a set of parameters for receiving the Spirit, claiming that these things must be done, then claiming "The devil did it," when these parameters have been met. This also proves quite detrimental to your argument. If Satan can imitate signs, then tongues prove nothing. Because then you are left trying to prove who the tongues came from. For example, how do you know that the tongues you speak in didn't come from the devil?


1)You are saying God is a sinner.
Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues, And for you to say, "not everyone will", Is saying Jesus is telling us lies, And God is a respecter of people.
If God gives ONE person the tongues to build them up, He has to give every Christian tongues, Otherwise He is a repecter of people, And that make Him a sinner, And Jesus a liar.
PLUS,
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke in tongues.

So there you have three witnesses.
First.
Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues.

Second.
God gives them to build us up, [And He isn't a respecter of people].

Third.
Everyone in the Bible who was baptised in the Holy Ghost, Spoke in tongues.

Your arguement is against God and the Bible..Not me.

2)Praying in tongues and praying in the Spirit are the smae thing.
PLEASE KEEP  1 Cor 14 in it's right context, When Paul is talking about praying in the Spirit, He is talking about praying in tongues.
KEEP v14--18 in context.

3)If tongues are essential, Why would God give them??..He gave them because they are essential.

4)We receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost by faith, Or we don't receive through lack of faith.
If people don't receive the Holy Ghost, That isn't God's fault.
His desire is for all His people to be baptised in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.

5)As for the gifts of the Spirit, God gives  to the  people, the gifts that goes with their calling and Ministry.
For instance, An Evangelist would have the gifts of healings.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #35 on: Fri Mar 30, 2012 - 12:37:31 »

Offline the_last_gunslinger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 725
  • Manna: 8
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #36 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 08:04:26 »
Quote
1)You are saying God is a sinner.

Where did I say that? Show me when I said God was a sinner. If you can do that, I will concede the point. Until then, stop misconstruing my points.

Quote
Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues, And for you to say, "not everyone will", Is saying Jesus is telling us lies, And God is a respecter of people.

The Bible says not everyone will. Your case has failed.

Quote
If God gives ONE person the tongues to build them up, He has to give every Christian tongues, Otherwise He is a repecter of people, And that make Him a sinner, And Jesus a liar.

It is clear you do not understand what "respecter of persons" means. I've already told you what was meant, but you ignore it.

Quote
PLUS,
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke in tongues.

Even if that were true, it doesn't mean everyone will. Besides, as I've pointed out, Paul didn't speak in tongues when he received the Spirit, so you are arguing under a false pretense.
Quote
So there you have three witnesses.

No, we have your mistaken interpretations.

Quote
First.
Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues.

Does every believer now speak in tongues? Like I've said, there are many Bible-believing Christians who have not.
Quote
Second.
God gives them to build us up, [And He isn't a respecter of people].

To build them up, yes. But there are many ways to be built up in the faith.
Quote
Third.
Everyone in the Bible who was baptised in the Holy Ghost, Spoke in tongues.

Again, see the account of Paul's conversion.
Quote
Your arguement is against God and the Bible..Not me.

It's most definitely against you. You are giving bizarre interpretations that cannot be substantiated.
Quote
2)Praying in tongues and praying in the Spirit are the smae thing.
PLEASE KEEP  1 Cor 14 in it's right context, When Paul is talking about praying in the Spirit, He is talking about praying in tongues.
KEEP v14--18 in context.

Please tell me where in the Bible it says that praying in tongues and praying in the spirit are the same thing. If you cannot, then you are just making up that interpretation.
Quote
3)If tongues are essential, Why would God give them??..He gave them because they are essential.

They are essential, but they aren't necessarily needed by everyone. If it strengthens an individual's relationship with Christ, then fine. My only argument is that you claim one must speak in tongues if you have received the Holy Ghost.
Quote
4)We receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost by faith, Or we don't receive through lack of faith.
If people don't receive the Holy Ghost, That isn't God's fault.
His desire is for all His people to be baptised in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.

But that doesn't account for the many true believers that never speak in tongues, good people believing in traditional Christian doctrine. If they have not spoken in tongues, then it is YOU who believes God is a respecter of persons.
Quote
5)As for the gifts of the Spirit, God gives  to the  people, the gifts that goes with their calling and Ministry.
For instance, An Evangelist would have the gifts of healings.

Yes, we are given gifts according to our calling and our place in the church. Agreed. But it illustrates the fact that God does not give all things to all people. In his wisdom, he bestows on each those things that pertain to them for their benefit and for the benefit of others.

But you still haven't answered an important question. If Tongues are proof, and Satan can imitate this proof, how do you know which source it came from? Wouldn't you agree that it cannot be proof if it can be imitated?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #36 on: Tue Apr 03, 2012 - 08:04:26 »

Offline Dr. Truth

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
  • Manna: 9
    • View Profile
Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #37 on: Fri Apr 06, 2012 - 14:32:22 »
Quote
1)You are saying God is a sinner.

Where did I say that? Show me when I said God was a sinner. If you can do that, I will concede the point. Until then, stop misconstruing my points.

Quote
Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues, And for you to say, "not everyone will", Is saying Jesus is telling us lies, And God is a respecter of people.

The Bible says not everyone will. Your case has failed.

Quote
If God gives ONE person the tongues to build them up, He has to give every Christian tongues, Otherwise He is a repecter of people, And that make Him a sinner, And Jesus a liar.

It is clear you do not understand what "respecter of persons" means. I've already told you what was meant, but you ignore it.

Quote
PLUS,
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke in tongues.

Even if that were true, it doesn't mean everyone will. Besides, as I've pointed out, Paul didn't speak in tongues when he received the Spirit, so you are arguing under a false pretense.
Quote
So there you have three witnesses.

No, we have your mistaken interpretations.

Quote
First.
Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues.

Does every believer now speak in tongues? Like I've said, there are many Bible-believing Christians who have not.
Quote
Second.
God gives them to build us up, [And He isn't a respecter of people].

To build them up, yes. But there are many ways to be built up in the faith.
Quote
Third.
Everyone in the Bible who was baptised in the Holy Ghost, Spoke in tongues.

Again, see the account of Paul's conversion.
Quote
Your arguement is against God and the Bible..Not me.

It's most definitely against you. You are giving bizarre interpretations that cannot be substantiated.
Quote
2)Praying in tongues and praying in the Spirit are the smae thing.
PLEASE KEEP  1 Cor 14 in it's right context, When Paul is talking about praying in the Spirit, He is talking about praying in tongues.
KEEP v14--18 in context.

Please tell me where in the Bible it says that praying in tongues and praying in the spirit are the same thing. If you cannot, then you are just making up that interpretation.
Quote
3)If tongues are essential, Why would God give them??..He gave them because they are essential.

They are essential, but they aren't necessarily needed by everyone. If it strengthens an individual's relationship with Christ, then fine. My only argument is that you claim one must speak in tongues if you have received the Holy Ghost.
Quote
4)We receive the baptism in the Holy Ghost by faith, Or we don't receive through lack of faith.
If people don't receive the Holy Ghost, That isn't God's fault.
His desire is for all His people to be baptised in the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues.

But that doesn't account for the many true believers that never speak in tongues, good people believing in traditional Christian doctrine. If they have not spoken in tongues, then it is YOU who believes God is a respecter of persons.
Quote
5)As for the gifts of the Spirit, God gives  to the  people, the gifts that goes with their calling and Ministry.
For instance, An Evangelist would have the gifts of healings.

Yes, we are given gifts according to our calling and our place in the church. Agreed. But it illustrates the fact that God does not give all things to all people. In his wisdom, he bestows on each those things that pertain to them for their benefit and for the benefit of others.

But you still haven't answered an important question. If Tongues are proof, and Satan can imitate this proof, how do you know which source it came from? Wouldn't you agree that it cannot be proof if it can be imitated?


1)You believe God gives tongues to some but not to others, That makes God a sinner.

2)The Bible does say every believe shall speak in tongues, Jesus Himself said itm But you are calling Him a liar.
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke it tonguesm Proving that.
[A]Tongues is the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Every one who is baptised in the Holy Ghost speaks in tongues.

Paul did speak in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

3)It is clear that you don't know what a respecter of people is,  You haven't told me what a respecter of people is, You have given me your wrong opinion, And there is a big difference.

Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues.
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues.
And God is no respecter of people.
The Bible rests its case.

You aren't baptised in the Holy Ghost.

Offline the_last_gunslinger

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 725
  • Manna: 8
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #38 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 14:01:09 »
Quote
)You believe God gives tongues to some but not to others, That makes God a sinner.

Explain how it makes God a sinner. This is an unfounded charge not rooted at all in the Bible. Where does it say this? Because as I've already done, I've pointed out where the Bible says that not everyone will speak in tongues.

Quote
2)The Bible does say every believe shall speak in tongues, Jesus Himself said itm But you are calling Him a liar.
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost, They spoke it tonguesm Proving that.
[A]Tongues is the Biblical evidence of the baptism in the Holy Ghost.
Every one who is baptised in the Holy Ghost speaks in tongues.

Paul did speak in tongues, 1 Cor 14: 18.

Paul may have spoken in tongues, but the verse quoted does not make a connection between receiving the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues as proof. All it contains is the proclamation that he has spoken in tongues. You made the claim that everyone in the Bible spoke in tongues when baptized in the Holy Ghost, but if you read Paul's conversion, when Ananias laid his hands on Paul to receive the Holy Ghost, there is not a single mention of him speaking in tongues as a result. So your claim that everyone in the Bible who received the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues is categorically false.

Quote
3)It is clear that you don't know what a respecter of people is,  You haven't told me what a respecter of people is, You have given me your wrong opinion, And there is a big difference.

I know exactly what "respecter of persons" means. It is you who can't seem to understand what this says. Last night, while pondering this charge that you levied against me, I decided to look through my Bible for any reference of God being a respecter of persons. Now I could have missed some, but every single one that I found supported my position. In Romans 2:11, for example, which tells of how God gives glory or condemnation "without being a respecter of persons" but instead according to their works. Or Ephesians 4:9, where God says that all men will be treated with goodness by God if they are good, whether they are bond or free. Or Col. 3:25, where God threatens punishments for those who do things that are wicked, or 1 Peter 1:17 where it says that the Lord JUDGES without respect of persons. This is what it means when God said he is not a respecter of persons, that all will be fairly judged and rewarded equally according to their goodness. Nowhere can I find a scripture that defines respecter of persons as you do. If there is one, please tell me where.


Jesus said every believer shall speak in tongues.
Every time people in the Bible were baptised in the Holy Ghost they spoke in tongues.
And God is no respecter of people.
The Bible rests its case.

Again, The Bible never said Paul spoke in tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. What you have claimed here is false.
God is not a respecter of persons, but you don't know what that means, apparently, so you are taking it way out of context to fit your own view of the Bible.


Quote
You aren't baptised in the Holy Ghost.

And you know this How? How did you gain this knowledge?

I know for a fact that I am, so it matters little what you think on the matter. But what I'd really like to know, and it's something you are either unable or unwilling to answer, is if Satan can imitate the sign of tongues, as you say he can, how then can tongues be proof? What proof do you have that the tongues you supposedly spoke in were from God and not the devil? It is an inarguable fact, if both God and Satan can give you the ability to speak in tongues, it cannot be proof. How can it be if the source cannot be known?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: A TEST OF FAITH
« Reply #38 on: Sun Apr 08, 2012 - 14:01:09 »