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Author Topic: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian  (Read 755 times)

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Offline Josiah

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"TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« on: Sat Aug 29, 2015 - 14:20:03 »
TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism


Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):


T: "total depravity"

Calvinism: Man after the Fall has no ability to cooperate with God's grace in conversion

Arminianism: Man after the Fall can cooperate with God’s grace in conversion
Lutheranism: Agrees with Calvinism on total depravity
Relevant Bible passages: Romans 3:9-20; Gal. 3:22


U: "unconditional election"

Calvinism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation and the others (reprobates) for damnation.
Arminianism: Before the world was created, God foresaw those who would choose Him of their own free will and elected them to salvation
Lutheranism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation but did not reprobate (chose for damnation) any.
Relevant Bible passages: Romans 9:11-13; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Mat. 25:34, 41.


L: "limited atonement"

Calvinism: Jesus only died for the elect, objectively atoning for their sin, but he did not die for the sins of the reprobates.
Arminianism: Christ died to give all the possibility to be saved.
Lutheranism: Christ’s death objectively atoned for all the sin of the world; by believing we receive this objective atonement and its benefits.
Relevant Bible passages: John 1:29; 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:14-15, 19.


I: "irresistable grace"

Calvinism: In all of God's outward actions (preaching, baptism, etc.) there is an outward call which all receive, yet there is also a secret effectual calling which God gives to the elect alone. This effectual calling alone saves and is irresistable.
Arminianism: God gives in His outward actions the same grace to all; this grace can be resisted by all.
Lutheranism: The question is not answerable; for the elect, grace will triumph, yet those who reject Christ have rejected that Grace; yet the grace is the same.
Relevant Bible passages: Eph. 2:1-10; Acts 13:48; James 1:13-15


P: "perseverance of the saints"
("once saved, always saved.")
Calvinism: Salvation, if genuine, cannot be lost.
Arminianism: Salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin and unbelief.
Lutheranism: Salvation can be lost through unbelief, but this legal warning does not cancel the Gospel promise of election
Relevant Bible passages: 1 Cor. 10:12. 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22.



- Josiah

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"TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« on: Sat Aug 29, 2015 - 14:20:03 »

Offline RB

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #1 on: Sat Aug 29, 2015 - 17:47:03 »
TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):
Greetings Josiah~I would add that there are "high or, hyper" Calvinist that do not consider themselves a Calvinist in the true sense of Calvinism as preached by the reformers, and many that followed them. We disagree with the fourth and fifth points of the Tulip. We agree that Calvinism simply stated, is the most logically system agreeing with the scriptures, and the one that gives all glory to God by exalting Jesus Christ as the only source of one's legal justification...the purer one preaches grace, and exalts Jesus Christ's obedience as the only source of forgiveness of our sins~ the closest one is to the true gospel. But we also believe that God has children that are not Calvinistic in their teaching, for whatever reason.  Salvation from sin and condemnation is all of grace through Jesus' righteousness'~and our understanding does not add or take away from one's free gift of eternal life.....just a spiritually understanding adds more (at least it should) joy, peace, to one's conscience, and nothing more.

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #1 on: Sat Aug 29, 2015 - 17:47:03 »

Offline JERRY C

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #2 on: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 09:40:17 »
and, where does "Wesleyanism" fit into all this?  They (Wesleyans) seem to be a third option between A & C options, with the L group somewhere in all this.

 ::smile::

Offline RB

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #3 on: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 11:47:24 »
and, where does "Wesleyanism" fit into all this?  They (Wesleyans) seem to be a third option between A & C options, with the L group somewhere in all this.
Brother, "Wesleyanism" is a very pure form of Arminianism, and I would add, so is modern day Lutheranism. Martin Luther and Calvin were very close in their Soteriology, yet today's people who profess Lutheranism, are not even close to Luther. If one preached Luther's message on the bondage of the will of man, they would be escorted out of their temple.   

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #3 on: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 11:47:24 »

Offline doorknocker

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #4 on: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 11:56:44 »
TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):
Greetings Josiah~I would add that there are "high or, hyper" Calvinist that do not consider themselves a Calvinist in the true sense of Calvinism as preached by the reformers, and many that followed them.




And then there is the followers of Christ, who follow wherever

He goes ,  who are neither high nor hyper.   ::preachit::  ::smile::


May God bless you.

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #4 on: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 11:56:44 »



Offline RB

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #5 on: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 12:13:01 »
Quote from: doorknocker link=topic=89532.msg1054988905#msg1054988905 date=1440953804[/quote
And then there is the followers of Christ, who follow wherever He goes ,  who are neither high nor hyper.
DK, I am convinced that God has children who do not know their left hand from their right hand spiritually speaking, who do believe in him. So, where are you at dear sir.
« Last Edit: Sun Aug 30, 2015 - 12:17:44 by RB »

Offline Josiah

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #6 on: Mon Aug 31, 2015 - 09:32:14 »
Methodists are traditionally Arminianists.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: "TULIP" : Lutheran, Calvinist, Arminian
« Reply #7 on: Mon Oct 03, 2016 - 21:50:32 »
Hi Josiah.  I believe I've met you at at least one other forum.

TULIP: A Response from Calvinism, Lutheranism and Arminianism


Calvinism has summarized its position in the famous acronym TULIP, and this serves as a useful way to approach the issue (being logical Calvinism is, if nothing else, easy to follow):


T: "total depravity"

Calvinism: Man after the Fall has no ability to cooperate with God's grace in conversion

Arminianism: Man after the Fall can cooperate with God’s grace in conversion


I believe this may a bit imprecise.  It's my understanding that the usual Arminian view is that it is only because of Prevenient Grace that man can respond to the Gospel.


Quote
Lutheranism: Agrees with Calvinism on total depravity
Relevant Bible passages: Romans 3:9-20; Gal. 3:22


U: "unconditional election"

Calvinism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation and the others (reprobates) for damnation.
Arminianism: Before the world was created, God foresaw those who would choose Him of their own free will and elected them to salvation


I believe this ignores the "Corporate Election" view.


Quote
Lutheranism: Before the world was created, God unconditionally elected some (the elect) for salvation but did not reprobate (chose for damnation) any.
Relevant Bible passages: Romans 9:11-13; 1 Timothy 2:3-4; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Mat. 25:34, 41.


L: "limited atonement"

Calvinism: Jesus only died for the elect, objectively atoning for their sin, but he did not die for the sins of the reprobates.
Arminianism: Christ died to give all the possibility to be saved.
Lutheranism: Christ’s death objectively atoned for all the sin of the world; by believing we receive this objective atonement and its benefits.
Relevant Bible passages: John 1:29; 1 John 2:2; 2 Cor. 5:14-15, 19.


I: "irresistable grace"

Calvinism: In all of God's outward actions (preaching, baptism, etc.) there is an outward call which all receive, yet there is also a secret effectual calling which God gives to the elect alone. This effectual calling alone saves and is irresistable.
Arminianism: God gives in His outward actions the same grace to all; this grace can be resisted by all.
Lutheranism: The question is not answerable; for the elect, grace will triumph, yet those who reject Christ have rejected that Grace; yet the grace is the same.
Relevant Bible passages: Eph. 2:1-10; Acts 13:48; James 1:13-15


P: "perseverance of the saints"
("once saved, always saved.")
Calvinism: Salvation, if genuine, cannot be lost.
Arminianism: Salvation can be lost through unrepentant sin and unbelief.


I believe you may have conflated the Wesleyan and Classical Arminian views.  It's my understanding that it is the Wesleyan view that one can "lose" salvation by sinning, while the "Classical" view is that one cannot "lose" salvation, but can potentially make the willful choice to abandon it.

Quote
Lutheranism: Salvation can be lost through unbelief, but this legal warning does not cancel the Gospel promise of election
Relevant Bible passages: 1 Cor. 10:12. 2 Peter 2:1, 20-22.

- Josiah


Here is a possibly interesting PDF at a Lutheran site.  I think it also is a bit imprecise or incomplete in regard to Arminianism, and some Lutherans have found "their" portion unsatisfactory.

My apologies to any who are annoyed by the resurrection of year-old zombie threads.