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Author Topic: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals  (Read 22263 times)

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Offline trifecta

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Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« on: Thu Jan 29, 2009 - 22:27:29 »
Dan, I thought I should come to your house.


Can you tell me the differences between Lutherans and evangelicals?

Thanks.

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Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« on: Thu Jan 29, 2009 - 22:27:29 »

Offline extranos

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #1 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 11:55:57 »
Tri,
Welcome in.  :-)
There are many differences.  I'll try to list the ones that come to mind quickly:
  • Lutherans believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, while at the same time believing that it is still bread and wine.  We have no idea how it happens, only that it does happen - because Christ says it happens
  • We baptize infants because 1) we believe infants can have faith and 2) because the Apostles taught us to do it
  • We reject the so-called age of accountability
  • We honor Mary and the saints, although not to the extent that the RCC and EO do
  • While it is not fully the case among us, serious Lutherans detest praise bands

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #1 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 11:55:57 »

Offline zoonance

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #2 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 17:24:14 »
Curious on why the destestation of praise bands amongst serious Lutherans? 

Offline extranos

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #3 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 18:02:57 »
Quote
Curious on why the destestation of praise bands amongst serious Lutherans?
OK, maybe I exaggerated a bit on that one when I said "serious", but their presence has caused a lot of controversy within the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.
The basic reason is that praise bands are used in conjunction with "contemporary" services.  These services feature lame 70's-era folk Christian music that, too often, is preoccupied with what we Christians are doing for God instead of focusing on what God has done for us.  We have a liturgy book that is rich in Biblical language and contains elements of worship that have been a part of the praise of God going all the way back to the Old Testament era.  The idea that Scripture or ancient and substantive hymns are less attractive than the bad theology of most CCM is, to me, appalling. 

I'm thinking specifically of the Willow Creek and Saddleback models when I talk about the "Evangelicals".  From what I have seen, most non-denom (Southern Baptists without the sign) churches follow one of those two models.  Their bad ideas are creeping into Lutheran practice, and in the worst cases, one cannot tell the difference between the Willow Creek-style megachurch and the Lutheran wannabe church.

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #3 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 18:02:57 »

Offline mike

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #4 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 18:21:58 »
I guess every group has their own type of worship wars.   ::shrug::

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #4 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 18:21:58 »



ex cathedra

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #5 on: Sat Feb 14, 2009 - 19:33:59 »
Curious on why the destestation of praise bands amongst serious Lutherans? 


Because True Lutheran worship has always been focused on what God does for us.

His forgivness won for us on the cross


we celebrate what Jsus has done in both word and the word in the sacraments.

Offline zoonance

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #6 on: Tue Feb 17, 2009 - 13:07:39 »
I see.  It seems to be about the content and the purpose.  I have heard praise songs (by definition?) praise Him in contemporary style and language.

Offline extranos

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #7 on: Wed Feb 18, 2009 - 22:00:35 »
One more difference......the cornerstone of the Evangelical movement is the notion that you must "make a decision for Christ".  However, Scripture never talks to us this way, instead using the idea of being called  to faith.
John 1:12,13 specifically say that we do not become children of God through a human decision, so why do Evangelicals insist on teaching something so unbiblical?  Who knows why they do some of the ridiculous things they do. 

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #8 on: Thu Feb 19, 2009 - 05:36:37 »
One more difference......the cornerstone of the Evangelical movement is the notion that you must "make a decision for Christ".  However, Scripture never talks to us this way, instead using the idea of being called  to faith.
John 1:12,13 specifically say that we do not become children of God through a human decision, so why do Evangelicals insist on teaching something so unbiblical?  Who knows why they do some of the ridiculous things they do. 

John 1,

11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.


This speaks of those who received (believed in His name) Him and those who did not.  That is the condition for being given the right to become children of God.

That to me sounds very much like it is dependent upon our human decision.

ex cathedra

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #9 on: Thu Feb 19, 2009 - 20:09:06 »
Take a look at the verse you gave especialy verse  13.

it realy is saying no different than this passage.



1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.



And if we  keep reading a  little further after John 3:16

we come to this.


John 6:44
44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.





Gods  blessings

Offline DJK

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #10 on: Thu Apr 02, 2009 - 14:43:28 »
Jimmy,
Quote
That to me sounds very much like it is dependent upon our human decision.

Read it again:

Quote
John 1,

11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Therefore, we are justified by grace alone (not of ourselves- Ephesians 2:8,9), through faith alone (not of ourselves- Hebrews 12:2), for Christ's sake alone (not of ourselves- I Peter 1:3); to God alone be the glory (Ephesians 1:3-6).



In Christ,
DJK

Offline FABS

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #11 on: Thu Jun 25, 2009 - 12:26:27 »
I've read all the comments about the differences....
first able have any of you been evangelical before?, well what i think is that
no one can go to the "Father" but thru his son Jesus right?.... but we as men/women
have to make the decision of following him... all the verses are correct but we have to understand them, not to our convenience
but  for what they really means, i know for sure that evangelical teach that is not by our self that we can go to the father or God or jesus how ever you want to put it but for Him. 

Offline zoonance

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jun 26, 2009 - 17:23:28 »
Jimmy,
Quote
That to me sounds very much like it is dependent upon our human decision.

Read it again:

Quote
John 1,

11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Therefore, we are justified by grace alone (not of ourselves- Ephesians 2:8,9), through faith alone (not of ourselves- Hebrews 12:2), for Christ's sake alone (not of ourselves- I Peter 1:3); to God alone be the glory (Ephesians 1:3-6).



In Christ,
DJK





I read not born of blood (by being of Israel by birth)
not born of the will of the flesh (Jesus talked of being born again to adults who were already "born" but he was encouraging the flesh to want or seek to be born again - not born again by will.)
one can not be born again by shear will no matter how much they want to be.  It is only by God that one can be born again.

Human decision was what Jesus was looking for.  He rewarded faithful people.  One can misquote all day long but human decision is clearly biblical.   Human effort won't save anybody but it will drive the person to the one who can.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #13 on: Fri Jun 26, 2009 - 19:04:29 »
Jimmy,
Quote
That to me sounds very much like it is dependent upon our human decision.

Read it again:

Quote
John 1,

11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Therefore, we are justified by grace alone (not of ourselves- Ephesians 2:8,9), through faith alone (not of ourselves- Hebrews 12:2), for Christ's sake alone (not of ourselves- I Peter 1:3); to God alone be the glory (Ephesians 1:3-6).



In Christ,
DJK


I reread it.  It is still a function of the individual's decision.  It is clearly conditional upon receiving Him.

BTW, why do you feel the need to insert the word "alone" when you see the word "grace" or "faith"?  The Holy Spirit didn't put it there, perhaps because He didn't want it there.

Offline FABS

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #14 on: Fri Jun 26, 2009 - 20:12:34 »
I agree is our decision

ex cathedra

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jul 01, 2009 - 19:05:15 »
THAN GODS GRACE WOULD NOT BE GRACE!
Jimmy,
Quote
That to me sounds very much like it is dependent upon our human decision.

Read it again:

Quote
John 1,

11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Therefore, we are justified by grace alone (not of ourselves- Ephesians 2:8,9), through faith alone (not of ourselves- Hebrews 12:2), for Christ's sake alone (not of ourselves- I Peter 1:3); to God alone be the glory (Ephesians 1:3-6).



In Christ,
DJK


I reread it.  It is still a function of the individual's decision.  It is clearly conditional upon receiving Him.

BTW, why do you feel the need to insert the word "alone" when you see the word "grace" or "faith"?  The Holy Spirit didn't put it there, perhaps because He didn't want it there.




John 6:44
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.


1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.


John 15:16
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.


1 Corinthians 2:14
14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Colossians 2:13
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
« Last Edit: Wed Jul 01, 2009 - 19:32:35 by ex cathedra »

Offline cosmicgospel

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #16 on: Tue Aug 25, 2009 - 18:39:46 »
Natural man does not agree with the things of the Spirit, for they are foolishness to him.

Evangelicals and Lutherans remain far apart on a number of issues. Evies fall for the use of human reason and therefore put a great deal of emphasis on making decisions.

Sacraments are seen in the same light of reason by Evangelicals (does this make sense at all  ::frown::).

Evangelicalism is Scripture interpreted by human reason. Lutherans insist Scripture first and when it opposes reason, insist on it twice as much.

Abram is a good man. But he is congratulated in the Evies and never becomes Abraham. Human decision only goes so far.

Peace,

Cos

ex cathedra

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #17 on: Thu Aug 27, 2009 - 20:36:29 »
 COSMIC GOSPEL Wrote

Evangelicalism is Scripture interpreted by human reason. Lutherans insist Scripture first and when it opposes reason, insist on it twice as much.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love it put that way!Its so true.

Thanks Cosmic Gospel

Offline a cruce salus

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #18 on: Sat Aug 29, 2009 - 19:59:50 »
Klemet Preus discusses the differences in The Fire and the Staff: Lutheran Theology in Practice.   Excellent book!

ex cathedra

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #19 on: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 19:59:41 »
Jimmy,
Quote
That to me sounds very much like it is dependent upon our human decision.

Read it again:

Quote
John 1,

11  He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12  But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13  who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Therefore, we are justified by grace alone (not of ourselves- Ephesians 2:8,9), through faith alone (not of ourselves- Hebrews 12:2), for Christ's sake alone (not of ourselves- I Peter 1:3); to God alone be the glory (Ephesians 1:3-6).



In Christ,
DJK


I reread it.  It is still a function of the individual's decision.  It is clearly conditional upon receiving Him.

BTW, why do you feel the need to insert the word "alone" when you see the word "grace" or "faith"?  The Holy Spirit didn't put it there, perhaps because He didn't want it there.



 We put it there to let the Anti -Christ  know we are not subject to his doctrines that want to destroy The truth of Gods grace . We put it there
BECAUSE a thorugh study of scripture alone , the full council of God (all of  scripture TELLS US IN OBJECTION TO THE TEACHINGS OF THE ANTI-CHRIST THAT DENY IT BELONGS THERE ,  that  it TRULY DOES belongs there .Romans 3:21



Now for the reason you see what you do in the verse John 1 :11 is  once again even that verse you take out of the context of the rest of scripture and trust the Anti-christ interpetation's .if you would look  at the verse that came after  it . Instead of the antii --Christ teaching You would not have to be shown why your wrong .  I hope this is a lesson to you to look to the  to the full council of God the rest of scripture to interpet what scripture itself teaches about scripture.
in its light




NO ONE COMES TO tHE SON UNLESS MY FATHER DRAWS THEM JOHN 6:44
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 13, 2009 - 20:45:31 by ex cathedra »

Stucky

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #20 on: Thu Nov 12, 2009 - 14:21:09 »
Hi,  I'm new here and I'm confused.  I was raised as a Lutheran from 1943 to 1958.  My church was affiliated with the Missouri Synod.  In those days we were called Evangelical Lutherans.  Has somethi9ng changed since then?

ex cathedra

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #21 on: Thu Nov 12, 2009 - 22:29:17 »
Hi,  I'm new here and I'm confused.  I was raised as a Lutheran from 1943 to 1958.  My church was affiliated with the Missouri Synod.  In those days we were called Evangelical Lutherans.  Has somethi9ng changed since then?

The Lutheran church is the oldest "on going" evangelical church in the world .

many non lutheran often called "Miracle  churchs's"   Are now using the name to spread a differing  agenda.
than  just ------------------ Christ and him crucified and risen for our justification .

They are using the word "evangelical" also for their  brand of sanctification /Talking in tongues / faith healings and their vews on end times etc

Offline Lutheran brother

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #22 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 22:30:47 »
Well, in my experience in Evangelical churches I have seen 'altar calls' and many seem to fail by the wayside. I see that we should just preach the message and let the Holy Spirit do what I have seen happen many times. I have preached the Gospel to many people and found them coming like a month to a year later for more information on the Christian Faith. The Lord is patient and is faithful to call those who will respond to the Gospel. Now, I like Contemporary worship music but only if it uses language that speaks of Christ and Him crucified and not all about the christian. Worship needs to exhort and build up the church, not give them a ego build. To God be the Glory.

Stucky

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Re: Differences between Lutherans and evangelicals
« Reply #23 on: Mon Dec 14, 2009 - 22:46:06 »
Well, in my experience in Evangelical churches I have seen 'altar calls' and many seem to fail by the wayside. I see that we should just preach the message and let the Holy Spirit do what I have seen happen many times. I have preached the Gospel to many people and found them coming like a month to a year later for more information on the Christian Faith. The Lord is patient and is faithful to call those who will respond to the Gospel. Now, I like Contemporary worship music but only if it uses language that speaks of Christ and Him crucified and not all about the christian. Worship needs to exhort and build up the church, not give them a ego build. To God be the Glory.

That was great Brother.  I am no longer a pastor but I believe the purpose of the sermon is to preach scripture, explain the context of that scripture and apply it to believers lives today.  My problem with Contemporary worship is the over use of music.  I love music but I have been to churches that sing ten or more songs asking the congregation for requests like a night club.

I talk with people now when I sense a desire from them to learn and I just teach the Good News of salvation through Jesus.  I don't worry about explaining all the nuances of the Christian life but just plant the seed and, like you, let the Holy Spirit do His work.  God bless you Brother.

 

     
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