ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN IS TRUST IN JESUS MERITS ?

[extranos]

DCR:

All we're told is that these children were being brought to Jesus... apparently so He would bless them.  But, I don't know what they believed... or even understood for that matter.  That doesn't appear to be addressed.

Holy Spirit via the Gospel of Luke: 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

We see what we want to see. 

[DCR]

DCR:

All we're told is that these children were being brought to Jesus... apparently so He would bless them.  But, I don't know what they believed... or even understood for that matter.  That doesn't appear to be addressed.

Holy Spirit via the Gospel of Luke: 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

We see what we want to see. 

Indeed... because I'm not seeing what you're apparently wanting to see there. 

I stand by what I said previously with regard to why Jesus was using these children as a comparison.  Notice that the wording is that the kingdom belongs to "such as" these.  Jesus is saying that those in the kingdom should be "as" children.  The issue of baptism isn't even in view here, and it's really a stretch to somehow make some conclusion about infant baptism from this passage.

[ex cathedra]

DCR:

All we're told is that these children were being brought to Jesus... apparently so He would bless them.  But, I don't know what they believed... or even understood for that matter.  That doesn't appear to be addressed.

Holy Spirit via the Gospel of Luke: 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

We see what we want to see. 

Indeed... because I'm not seeing what you're apparently wanting to see there. 

I stand by what I said previously with regard to why Jesus was using these children as a comparison.  Notice that the wording is that the kingdom belongs to "such as" these.  Jesus is saying that those in the kingdom should be "as" children.  The issue of baptism isn't even in view here, and it's really a stretch to somehow make some conclusion about infant baptism from this passage.

I could give you every verse on baptism and infant belief and it still

would be very hard for you to  see what we see.

Even the verse  JOHN 3 :16 you believe is some thing a "person must decide to believe". so even that simple verse is law viewed through
your and many peoples eyes.

What i am saying is true and is  is evident from magazines like Billy-Grahms decision magazine.

the yeast of synergism works it way all through the way not just you but many other people also   view doctrines .

couple that with the importance you and many  place on human reason as scripture's  judge of  how one is to interpet .


even if we were to fully convince you.  I think

"The man convinced against his will , is  of the same opinion still."


we cant show you and its not something you must work out for your self by studing scripture either.


The Holy Spirit  He must become your mater and teacher before you see.

[DCR]

The Holy Spirit  He must become your mater and teacher before you see.

The Holy Spirit must become my master and teacher before I see things the way you see them... is probably what you mean. 

It so often comes down to... if you disagree with me, then you disagree with God.

[SolaScriptura]

Infant baptism is necessary. Why, original sin, the total corruption of our human condition. We all have it.
 
Psalms 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

We are by nature sinful and unclean. God's justice demand's that every sinner be punished. This includes infants. Without saving faith a person is doomed to hell, regardless of age.  To not damn them God would have to abandon his Justice.

Baptism is a means of grace.

I Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
(my underline)

Without saving faith through a means of grace a person cannot be saved.  A person can not come to God on their own. Of the 3 means of grace (baptism, the Gospel, and communion) only baptism is available to infants.

Jesus has commanded that infants be baptized.

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

All nations, that includes everyone in the nation, Men, Women, kids, infants, old people, ect. In fact a nation without infants will cease to be a nation if they do not have infants for a long period of time.

[a cruce salus]

Show me an infant who confesses faith in Christ and repents of its sins, and then we'll talk about whether the infant should be baptized.

Baby John lept for joy in his mother's womb at recognition of Christ.  He had faith in-utero!

 41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

 42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
Luke 1 KJV

[DCR]

Show me an infant who confesses faith in Christ and repents of its sins, and then we'll talk about whether the infant should be baptized.

Baby John lept for joy in his mother's womb at recognition of Christ.  He had faith in-utero!

 41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

 42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

 44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
Luke 1 KJV

I asked for an example of an infant repenting of its sins.  Do you think John, in the womb, had sins to repent of?  

As far as the babe leaping in the womb, Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.  The birth of John the Baptist was prophesied, and he was already set apart for a special purpose.  And, the presence of Christ in Mary's womb was a supernatural and miraculous thing anyway.  This is definitely a unique and unusual situation.

But, even so, this is a long stretch from addressing the issue of infant baptism.

[Jimmy]

Infant baptism is necessary. Why, original sin, the total corruption of our human condition. We all have it.
 
Psalms 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

We are by nature sinful and unclean. God's justice demand's that every sinner be punished. This includes infants. Without saving faith a person is doomed to hell, regardless of age.  To not damn them God would have to abandon his Justice.

If you believe that Psalms 51:5 is to be taken literally (and by the way it is his mother that is referred to being in sin), then just keep reading, for Psalms 51:7 gives the cure for his problem, 

Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean; Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Certainly seems simple enough.  But of course, there really isn't any such thing as original sin.

[larry2]

Man is not judged for Adam's sin, but his own. Jesus died for that sin once. We do have a nature that will do any thing any person ever did, and we do choose to sin. A child, though born with that nature is not guilty until they commit sin themselves. King David's child was in Abraham's bosom prior to David going there. 2 Samuel 12:23  But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. This is scripture, not I think he is alright.
 
1 John 2:2  And He (Jesus) is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

In Jesus' name - larry2

 

[ex cathedra]

Man is not judged for Adam's sin, but his own. Jesus died for that sin once. We do have a nature that will do any thing any person ever did, and we do choose to sin. A child, though born with that nature is not guilty until they commit sin themselves. King David's child was in Abraham's bosom prior to David going there. 2 Samuel 12:23  But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. This is scripture, not I think he is alright.
 
1 John 2:2  And He (Jesus) is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

In Jesus' name - larry2

 

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ
 Romans 5:12  Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
 15But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

 18Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

[Stucky]

Beloved, you are all entitled to your own personal beliefs and don't really need to get into a heated, mean-spirited argument over this matter.  Your difference of opinion is not a salvation issue for yourselves or for infants.  Whether you feel that a baby will not go to Heaven unless baptized has no effect on that babies residency after death.  That is God's purview, not yours.

Baptize infants if you want or don't, God will do what God wants to do which is take the baby to Heaven, baptized or not, if the baby dies.

When the rapture occurs you will see that all children, below God's established age of accountability, which varies with each child, will be taken to Heaven.

Why would our loving God condemn children to damnation because they don't have the ability to decide whether or not they believe in Jesus as their Savior?  He is our loving father.  Would you condemn one of your children?

[ex cathedra]

Beloved, you are all entitled to your own personal beliefs and don't really need to get into a heated, mean-spirited argument over this matter.  Your difference of opinion is not a salvation issue for yourselves or for infants.  Whether you feel that a baby will not go to Heaven unless baptized has no effect on that babies residency after death.  That is God's purview, not yours.

Baptize infants if you want or don't, God will do what God wants to do which is take the baby to Heaven, baptized or not, if the baby dies.

When the rapture occurs you will see that all children, below God's established age of accountability, which varies with each child, will be taken to Heaven.

Why would our loving God condemn children to damnation because they don't have the ability to decide whether or not they believe in Jesus as their Savior?  He is our loving father.  Would you condemn one of your children?

I think you need to study the  teaching of the church you say you belong to.
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=572

[Stucky]

Beloved, you are all entitled to your own personal beliefs and don't really need to get into a heated, mean-spirited argument over this matter.  Your difference of opinion is not a salvation issue for yourselves or for infants.  Whether you feel that a baby will not go to Heaven unless baptized has no effect on that babies residency after death.  That is God's purview, not yours.

Baptize infants if you want or don't, God will do what God wants to do which is take the baby to Heaven, baptized or not, if the baby dies.

When the rapture occurs you will see that all children, below God's established age of accountability, which varies with each child, will be taken to Heaven.

Why would our loving God condemn children to damnation because they don't have the ability to decide whether or not they believe in Jesus as their Savior?  He is our loving father.  Would you condemn one of your children?

I think you need to study the  teaching of the church you say you belong to.
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=572

     ex cathedra...Just because I am affiliated with the LC MS does not mean that I have to agree with every single doctrine that they do.  The only writings that I accept as gospel is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

If you want to believe in infant baptism you are free to do so.  If you don't want to believe, you are free to do so.  Your beliefs or the beliefs of the LC MS are not binding on me, only the Bible is and I depend on the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning of Scripture to me, but I am not in-fallable even then.

[hazelle]

you are obviously  still bothered by the fact your baby wasn't baptized.
it seems you would have if there was more time .

No I am not bothered about that...I had time to have him baptized...he died a few hours later...

That priest was a wolf in disguise, preaching lies like a lot of them do...they keep people blinded by telling them not to study the Bible...no wonder so many so-called born-again Catholics are lost...

I don't need your ''honesty''...thank you very much...I KNOW for a fact that my son is in Heaven and no one will ever make me change my mind about this...and not because he was baptized, it has nothing to do with the ritual of baptism...and it has nothing to do with my son having had faith in Jesus either because I doubt very much that he did since he was too young to understand or make a choice on his own...he simply didn't know any better so he can't be held accountable as he was innocent in his spirit...

Gabriel was saved by God's Grace!...Amen!...

yes u are rite! he is definitely in heaven rite now.

you are God's child and how come your baby a sinner??

god said you and your offspring are bless since you are in the Lord.

since you are God's child your baby also His child..ur baby is save..thats what we call the grace of God.

how can a baptism blocked God's grace? thats show people are still in bondage of the law..

[ex cathedra]

its obvious Hazle (XXX) AND SOME OTHERS do not BELIEVE  AS WE Lutherans DO that faith in Jesus is the one ansd only way for any one to be saved .

IM  glad I AM  lutheran and  dont attend their Churchs.