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Christian Interests => Organized Religion and Religious Movements Discussions => Methodist Forum => Topic started by: highrigger on Tue May 01, 2012 - 14:41:26

Title: John Wesley's Most Famous Sermon - What do you think about it?
Post by: highrigger on Tue May 01, 2012 - 14:41:26
http://new.gbgm-umc.org/umhistory/wesley/sermons/2/
Title: Re: John Wesley's Most Famous Sermon - What do you think about it?
Post by: wayseer on Thu May 03, 2012 - 17:29:19
He has a point - as such.

Wesley fails to acknowledge that it is Agrippa talking to a chained Paul who made the quote - which is more accurately render - 'Are you so quickly persuading me to become a Christian?'

It is not clear what Agrippa actually means by his question.  Is he thinking of becoming a Christian?  Hardly.  Is he having something of a joke with Paul's beliefs?  Perhaps.  Or is Agrippa secularizing Christianity?  Probably.

What Wesley is alluding to is the age old question - if I am genuinely motivated by virtue, will I gain access to God's Kingdom?

The question raises the whole issue of 'works' based salvation on which much has been said.  In other words, reading Paul further, is it good enough just to 'perform' a bit role of a Christian?  The unanimous voice from the world is a resounding - Yes.  Wesley, the evangelist, answers with a resounding, No.  Which raises a whole range of questions which Wesley subsequently attempts to address.

Wesley's main thrust is that if it is good enough for Christ to have died so 'we might live' then it is perhaps beholden to us to do something more than adopt a 'bit' role as a Christian. 

But my question is - can we ever do anything other than to 'pretend', to the very best of our ability, to be a Christian?   

Title: Re: John Wesley's Most Famous Sermon - What do you think about it?
Post by: highrigger on Thu May 17, 2012 - 11:40:38
Quote
Wesley fails to acknowledge that it is Agrippa talking to a chained Paul who made the quote - which is more accurately render - 'Are you so quickly persuading me to become a Christian?'

Wayseer,

That acknowledgement is at the top. He points that out first thing.

Quote
But my question is - can we ever do anything other than to 'pretend', to the very best of our ability, to be a Christian?

Wesley says firmly yes to your question. He points to scripture and his own experience. If all you can do is pretend you are a christtian then you are a hypocrite and you should seek your own salvation as he recommends. Altogether christians know who they are just as Wesly asserts. "Awake thou who sleepest."

One may seek to follow Gods Law but only a non christian seeks to be a christian. Your thinking is upside down.
He never said one succeeds in following Gods Law but rather one does succeed in loving God and seeking to follow Gods Law.
One can succeed in being an altogether christian and he gives us a test if we have reached that state. We should all take that test and never be satisfied in pretending.
Peace, JohnR