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Offline Brother Paul

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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« on: October 21, 2008, 06:49:31 PM »
A must see for any faithful Christian or Jewish person. God is not the primary issue but Stein is amazing at befuddleing the most staunch atheist apologists. He gets to the core of the issus and demonstrates an intentional plan on their part to repress their own fundamental system of faith for which they have ZERO actual evidence or proof, PLus he's funny so you get an education and entertainment.

In Christ,

Paul

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Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« on: October 21, 2008, 06:49:31 PM »

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 06:52:26 PM »
As a staunch Christian who saw the film.

It was absolutely terrible. Scientifically innacurate. Culturally misleading. Anyone who has any real interest in science could see this was the biggest political sham of a movie in a long time.

If you want people to worship god and marvel at how he created the world, don't lie to people to get them to do it.

Edit: His favourite phrase, lightning striking a mud puddle. I went out and looked for ages trying to find one credible scientist who said it, I couldn't

Edit: A survey obtained 4000 signatures from scientists in 4 days supporting evolution
Its taken the Discovery Institute 7 years to get 700 signatures. Many scientists who signed it has then asked to have their name taken off because it was worded poorly, and they found it supported 'ID'

I used to like Ben Stein.....
« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 07:06:25 PM by Howdyboyalan »

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2008, 06:52:26 PM »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2008, 08:21:08 PM »
As a staunch Christian who saw the film.

It was absolutely terrible. Scientifically innacurate. Culturally misleading. Anyone who has any real interest in science could see this was the biggest political sham of a movie in a long time.

If you want people to worship god and marvel at how he created the world, don't lie to people to get them to do it.

Edit: His favourite phrase, lightning striking a mud puddle. I went out and looked for ages trying to find one credible scientist who said it, I couldn't

Edit: A survey obtained 4000 signatures from scientists in 4 days supporting evolution
Its taken the Discovery Institute 7 years to get 700 signatures. Many scientists who signed it has then asked to have their name taken off because it was worded poorly, and they found it supported 'ID'

I used to like Ben Stein.....

As a staunch Christian you don't believe in an Intelligent Designer?

How about the Son of the Intelligent Designer?

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 02:28:42 AM »
Knew somebody would say that.

This is why a lot of the world looks at us and laughs. Because not only do we reject a lot of science, we come up with our own ridiculous 'science' and try and pedal it as truth. When some Christians do step forward and say, no the ID theory is absolutely rubbish, they get hounded and mocked.

Intelligent Design is not a Scientific theory

There is no scientific evidence for intelligent design in the way 'christian scientists' would have you understand it. The Discovery Institute and others who push it deliberately contort facts and evidence.

Christianity is a faith, we must accept this. To believe in a God that created everything and that he had a son who died for our sins has no evidence for it other than what ever personal evidence we seek and have in our gut.

It troubles me that so many Christians have a problem with this. It also troubles me that so many christians sucker in for this psuedo-science, we don't have to be desperate for proof of our lord, is our faith really that weak? Is it really built on such feeble ground that we have to twist facts. We need some dignity and the self respect to be able to accept science does not support all our beliefs.

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2008, 02:28:42 AM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Jaime

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 06:36:15 AM »
It troubles me that if God created the universe and he did, then it is truth. If he did not, then it is a myth. Is truth counter to science, or is science only parallel to reality when it comes to a creator, just not intersecting?

By the way, I am a Civil Engineer and had a geology minor. I've had plenty of scientific education. I just think there is room for a creator as opposed to trying to explain where the Big Bang material came from.

The Bible confirms that world will look at the things of God as foolishness. No surprise.

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2008, 06:36:15 AM »



Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2008, 06:55:54 AM »
It troubles me that if God created the universe and he did, then it is truth. If he did not, then it is a myth. Is truth counter to science, or is science only parallel to reality when it comes to a creator, just not intersecting?

By the way, I am a Civil Engineer and had a geology minor. I've had plenty of scientific education. I just think there is room for a creator as opposed to trying to explain where the Big Bang material came from.

The Bible confirms that world will look at the things of God as foolishness. No surprise.


How has anyone here said looking at the things of god as foolish. Intelligent Design, the theory supported in the movie mentioned talks about things like the 2nd law forbidding evolution, specified complexity and fine tuned conditions (We are finding more and more life forms only here on earth that does not need the conditions we live in conditions to survive).
http://www.nsf.gov/news/frontiers_archive/7-97/7extreme.jsp

New Scientist 2008 October 18 'DNA of Gold mine bug'

http://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_spivacks_weblog/2006/08/scientist_raise.html

 Intelligent Design has NEVER released a peer reviewed paper.

Even biblically speaking, not scientifically speaking, intelligent design is packed with contradictions. Why on earth would god design something to eat meat or defend itself from predators if everything used to be vegitarian

AS Christians we have a responsibility to seek out the truth of Gods work, not to cover it up with political propaganda, which is all Ben Steins documentary is.

Intelligent Design is not only a farce, it is an INSULT to god, as it covers up and dumbs down the sheer  un-comprendable brilliance of the universe.

WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO TAKE SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS AS AN INSULT TO OUR FAITH. We can level a finger at the entire scientific community and accuse them of covering up the truth. Rather we should use science re enforce our faith.

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2008, 07:28:06 AM »
As a staunch Christian who saw the film.

You're about as much a staunch Christian as I am a staunch Catholic...

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2008, 07:32:42 AM »
Funny you should say that knowing nothing about me

Offline Jaime

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2008, 07:33:13 AM »
It troubles me that if God created the universe and he did, then it is truth. If he did not, then it is a myth. Is truth counter to science, or is science only parallel to reality when it comes to a creator, just not intersecting?

By the way, I am a Civil Engineer and had a geology minor. I've had plenty of scientific education. I just think there is room for a creator as opposed to trying to explain where the Big Bang material came from.

The Bible confirms that world will look at the things of God as foolishness. No surprise.


How has anyone here said looking at the things of god as foolish. Intelligent Design, the theory supported in the movie mentioned talks about things like the 2nd law forbidding evolution, specified complexity and fine tuned conditions (We are finding more and more life forms only here on earth that does not need the conditions we live in conditions to survive).
http://www.nsf.gov/news/frontiers_archive/7-97/7extreme.jsp

New Scientist 2008 October 18 'DNA of Gold mine bug'

http://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_spivacks_weblog/2006/08/scientist_raise.html

 Intelligent Design has NEVER released a peer reviewed paper.

Even biblically speaking, not scientifically speaking, intelligent design is packed with contradictions. Why on earth would god design something to eat meat or defend itself from predators if everything used to be vegitarian

AS Christians we have a responsibility to seek out the truth of Gods work, not to cover it up with political propaganda, which is all Ben Steins documentary is.

Intelligent Design is not only a farce, it is an INSULT to god, as it covers up and dumbs down the sheer  un-comprendable brilliance of the universe.

WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO TAKE SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS AS AN INSULT TO OUR FAITH. We can level a finger at the entire scientific community and accuse them of covering up the truth. Rather we should use science re enforce our faith.


I'm pretty sure the Bible is peer reviewed.

Also the Big Bang theory is peer reviewed. They just can't tell us where the matter came from that banged. Pretty poor review if you ask me.

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2008, 07:35:35 AM »
Funny you should say that knowing nothing about me

I know enough from what I read, and after some 230 posts you can't hide whats inside...

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2008, 07:47:07 AM »
It troubles me that if God created the universe and he did, then it is truth. If he did not, then it is a myth. Is truth counter to science, or is science only parallel to reality when it comes to a creator, just not intersecting?

By the way, I am a Civil Engineer and had a geology minor. I've had plenty of scientific education. I just think there is room for a creator as opposed to trying to explain where the Big Bang material came from.

The Bible confirms that world will look at the things of God as foolishness. No surprise.


How has anyone here said looking at the things of god as foolish. Intelligent Design, the theory supported in the movie mentioned talks about things like the 2nd law forbidding evolution, specified complexity and fine tuned conditions (We are finding more and more life forms only here on earth that does not need the conditions we live in conditions to survive).
http://www.nsf.gov/news/frontiers_archive/7-97/7extreme.jsp

New Scientist 2008 October 18 'DNA of Gold mine bug'

http://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_spivacks_weblog/2006/08/scientist_raise.html

 Intelligent Design has NEVER released a peer reviewed paper.

Even biblically speaking, not scientifically speaking, intelligent design is packed with contradictions. Why on earth would god design something to eat meat or defend itself from predators if everything used to be vegitarian

AS Christians we have a responsibility to seek out the truth of Gods work, not to cover it up with political propaganda, which is all Ben Steins documentary is.

Intelligent Design is not only a farce, it is an INSULT to god, as it covers up and dumbs down the sheer  un-comprendable brilliance of the universe.

WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO TAKE SCIENTIFIC PROGRESS AS AN INSULT TO OUR FAITH. We can level a finger at the entire scientific community and accuse them of covering up the truth. Rather we should use science re enforce our faith.


I'm pretty sure the Bible is peer reviewed.

Also the Big Bang theory is peer reviewed. They just can't tell us where the matter came from that banged. Pretty poor review if you ask me.


Lol, yes the Bible is peer reviewed. Yet, you are missing my point. I do not advocate Intelligent Design in the way it is being pushed on the population in its form. It is all mumbo jumbo. The 'theory' intelligent design is based on telling people what is in the bible through lies. In an 'ends justify the means' philosophy. The Bible says god created the heavens and the earth. It never talked about thermo dynamics, or genetics etc. If we are to EVER have any hope of finding out how god did it, and any hope of SCIENTIFICALLY proving it, it won't be by going down the route creation science is going down now, simply because creation science isnt science.
Quote
Quote from: Howdyboyalan on Today at 08:32:42 AM
Funny you should say that knowing nothing about me

I know enough from what I read, and after some 230 posts you can't hide whats inside...


Because I don't agree with your interpretation of the bible, or your politics? I live my life how Jesus taught, and I try to live by the commandments. I do not judge people and I go to Church every Sunday. I talk to my friends about God, and though I accept I cant convert many people or convince them that christianity hasn't been an overall bad force on the world, I can convince them that the way Jesus led is life is an example that all of us should follow no matter what we believe. If you have a problem with that because your interpretation of the Bible is different to that, we can take it up with God when it comes to it.

you have judged me in the two lines you have posted on this thread, and I challange you to find a single post where I have passed judgement on anyone for their beliefs. Sometimes you can take example from a Christian even though  they don't believe God clicked his fingers over the period of 6 days or that they believe Obama might make a better president than McCain. ::pondering::

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2008, 08:04:23 AM »
Because I don't agree with your interpretation of the bible, or your politics? I live my life how Jesus taught, and I try to live by the commandments. I do not judge people and I go to Church every Sunday. I talk to my friends about God, and though I accept I cant convert many people or convince them that christianity hasn't been an overall bad force on the world, I can convince them that the way Jesus led is life is an example that all of us should follow no matter what we believe. If you have a problem with that because your interpretation of the Bible is different to that, we can take it up with God when it comes to it.

Good for you, I commend you efforts and zeal.

you have judged me in the two lines you have posted on this thread, and I challange you to find a single post where I have passed judgement on anyone for their beliefs. Sometimes you can take example from a Christian just because they don't believe God clicked his fingers over the period of 6 days or that they believe Obama might make a better president than McCain. ::pondering::

Maybe you don't quite understand what judgment means, but I never condemned your beliefs or implied you aren't a Christian. I just think you calling yourself a staunch Christian is laughable after some of the comments I have seen you make on this board. You think orthodox and traditional beliefs of Christianity namely creationism is foolish and worthy of the ridicule of the world, hows that for being judgmental?

If you think I'm passing judgment because of your beliefs you are correct though, I consider them wrong and I wouldn't allow my children to sit under you in Sunday school considering your views on things like the flood and creationism. So just to recap: judgment isn't equal with condemning someone, its how we are called to use our discernment.  Jesus said not to judge after appearances but judge after righteousness (Jhn 7:24)

Offline Howdyboyalan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2008, 08:13:33 AM »
No, I dont think belief in young earth etc is foolish

I just think it is not a science. I have tried to say that one must accept that beliefs such as that are firmly within a belief with no evidence. IF that is your belief I will not criticise it, but it can not be forced upon others in the context of science. I have said that Christians can be 'MADE TO LOOK LIKE FOOLS'. I have been misquoted as saying all Christians make us look like fools but I did not say that. I said when a Christian goes out and tries to enforce their beliefs on others in the context of fact or hate, then it makes US ALL look like fools.

Christians must accept that we are a religious faith, and the thrust of my comments have been towards people who I know personally who wail against the global conspiracies to destroy Christianity. 

I also know several young earth creationists, who realise their beliefs are not for the classroom or work. I sit in my physics class with a guy I go to church with. He believes in YE, but he understands he must seperate that state of mind from the evidence being presented to him in physics about the nature of our universe. It is not that he just ignores being christian for a time (we have discussed this in detail). He just simply accepts he does not know how to explain the contradictions.

Really everything I have said that you might fits into this topic and what is being said here.

Edit: And if you say 'you see me as foolish because I support YE scientifically'...then I will make my stance clear now. I do not judge you, I JUDGE YOUR BELIEFS as wrong and foolish, just as you judge mine to be wrong

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2008, 08:18:02 AM »
I do not judge you, I JUDGE YOUR BELIEFS as wrong and foolish, just as you judge mine to be wrong

Fair enough.

Offline Jaime

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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2008, 10:55:02 AM »
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Lol, yes the Bible is peer reviewed. Yet, you are missing my point. I do not advocate Intelligent Design in the way it is being pushed on the population in its form. It is all mumbo jumbo. The 'theory' intelligent design is based on telling people what is in the bible through lies. In an 'ends justify the means' philosophy. The Bible says god created the heavens and the earth. It never talked about thermo dynamics, or genetics etc. If we are to EVER have any hope of finding out how god did it, and any hope of SCIENTIFICALLY proving it, it won't be by going down the route creation science is going down now, simply because creation science isnt science.

I don't need science to prove that God created earth. His word says he did. If all of his word is not true, then how will I have faith in any of it. I do believe that science will not contradict the Bible and vice versa. The Bible says God created the universe. I am not saying God didn't use the Big Bang, but scientist do say God did not create the matter that exploded. They can't ignore it and adhere to a scientific analysis. If they can't explain the origin of the Big Bang matter, then why is God creating it, so "unscientific"?