Welcome, Guest. Login or register to use the forums.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 20, 2010, 04:43:12 AM
Home Help Search Login Register
GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Bookstore | Support | Newsletter


+  Christian Forums
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  News from Around the World
| | |-+  100,000 Britons Seek Debaptism
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: 100,000 Britons Seek Debaptism  (Read 2451 times)
Mrs Mac
Member
***

Manna: 18
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 405


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« on: April 21, 2009, 11:37:28 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090330/lf_afp/lifestylebritainreligionatheismfeature


LONDON (AFP) – More than 100,000 Britons have recently downloaded "certificates of de-baptism" from the Internet to renounce their Christian faith.

The initiative launched by a group called the National Secular Society (NSS) follows atheist campaigns here and elsewhere, including a London bus poster which triggered protests by proclaiming "There's probably no God."

"We now produce a certificate on parchment and we have sold 1,500 units at three pounds (4.35 dollars, 3.20 euros) a pop," said NSS president Terry Sanderson, 58.

John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.

The male nurse said he approached the Church of England to ask it to remove his name. "They said they had sought legal advice and that I should place an announcement in the London Gazette," said Hunt, referring to one of the official journals of record of the British government.

So that's what he did -- his notice of renouncement was published in the Gazette in May 2008 and other Britons have followed suit.

Michael Evans, 66, branded baptising children as "a form of child abuse" -- and said that when he complained to the church where he was christened he was told to contact the European Court of Human Rights.

The Church of England said its official position was not to amend its records. "Renouncing baptism is a matter between the individual and God," a Church spokesman told AFP.

"We are not a 'membership' church, and do not keep a running total of the number of baptised people in the Church of England, and such totals do not feature in the statistics that we regularly publish," he added.

De-baptism organisers say the initiative is a response to what they see as increasing stridency from churches -- the latest last week when Pope Benedict XVI stirred global controversy on a trip to AIDS-ravaged Africa by saying condom use could further spread of the disease.

"The Catholic Church is so politically active at the moment that I think that is where the hostility is coming from," said Sanderson. "In Catholic countries there is a very strong feeling of wanting to punish the church by leaving it."

In Britain, where government figures say nearly 72 percent of the population list themselves as Christian, Sanderson feels this "hostility" is fuelling the de-baptism movement.

Theologian Paul Murray at Durham University disagrees. "That is not my experience," he said, but concedes that change is in the air.

"We are in an interesting climate where Catholicism and other belief systems have moved into the public, pluralist arena, alongside secularists," he said.

De-baptism movements have already sprung up in other countries.

In Spain, the high court ruled in favour of a man from Valencia, Manuel Blat, saying that under data protection laws he could have the record of his baptism erased, according to a report in the International Herald Tribune.

Similarly, the Italian Union of Rationalists and Agnostics (UAAR) won a legal battle over the right to file for de-baptism in 2002, according to media reports. The group's website carries a "de-baptism" form to facilitate matters.

According to UAAR secretary Raffaele Carcano, more than 60,000 of these forms have been downloaded in the past four years and continue to be downloaded at a rate of about 2,000 per month. Another 1,000 were downloaded in one day when the group held its first national de-baptism day last October 25.

Elsewhere, an Argentinian secularist movement is running a "Collective Apostasy" campaign, using the slogan "Not in my name" (No en mi nombre).

Sanderson hopes rulings in other European countries will pave the way for legal action in Britain, since European Union directives require a level of parity among member states' legislation.

"That would be a good precedent for us to say to the British Information Commissioner: Come on, what's your excuse?" said Sanderson.

The bus-side posters that hit London in January sported the message: "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life."

The scheme was in response to pro-Christian adverts on buses directing passers-by to a website warning those who did not accept Jesus would suffer for eternity in hell.

Comedy writer Ariane Sherine, mastermind of the British bus campaign that saw a copycat version in Barcelona and other cities, said she backs the "de-baptism" movement but insisted the two initiatives were separate.

Sanderson meanwhile remains resolute. "The fact that people are willing to pay for the parchments shows how seriously they are taking them," he said.
Logged

Mrs Mac
Member
***

Manna: 18
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 405


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 11:41:25 PM »

My feeling is that these people would  have been baby christened.  Even so it is a heart thing of rejecting God in their lives even if they were never born again.

A sign of the times, no doubt.
Logged

Christian Forums
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 11:41:25 PM »

 Logged
Howdyboyalan
Senior Member
****

Manna: 69
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 1799

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 06:22:15 AM »

I think the rise of militant atheism and atheists doing this is a counter culture. By nature atheists are very independent. People like Richard Dawkins try to encourage them to come together to be a voice against religion but atheists don't congregate in groups, hence their pooing religion.

I think that is changing because once again there is a lot of war in the world due to religion. It was made worse by the fact that many percieve Bush to be 'very very' christian, so they see the war on terror etc as a religious war. Atheists doing things like this is a way for people to stand up and say 'no, i don't want to be a part of this'. It'll die down again if the wars die down. Whether or not the increased level of secularism and atheism dies does as well is another matter
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 07:34:05 AM by Howdyboyalan » Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 06:22:15 AM »

 Logged
Bocephus
Global Moderator
Lee's Inner Circle Member
*****

Manna: 400
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 16219


I'm a little more country than that

Blog entries (1)

View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 06:56:00 AM »

I think the rise of militant atheism and atheists doing this is a counter culture. By nature atheists are very independent. People like Richard Dawkins try to encourage them to come together to be a voice against religion but atheists don't congregate in groups, hence their pooing religion.

I think that is changing because once again there is a lot of war in the world due to religion. It was made worse by the fact that many percieve Bush to be 'very very' christian, so they see the war on terror etc as a religious war. Atheists doing things like this is a way for people to stand up and say 'no, i don't want to be a part of this'. It'll die down again if the wars die down. Whether or not the increased level of secularism and religion dies does as well is another matter

Like minded folks have always congregated.  There are evangelical Christians and atheists.
Logged

"Are you one of those Christians that you don't land in any church because none of them is right for you, none of them is biblical, none of them is good enough?  If you've been to 27 churches, and not one of them is right, just remember this you're the only constant variable.  It's probably you." - Mark Driscoll, from message "God Sends."
Howdyboyalan
Senior Member
****

Manna: 69
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 1799

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 07:05:38 AM »

I think the rise of militant atheism and atheists doing this is a counter culture. By nature atheists are very independent. People like Richard Dawkins try to encourage them to come together to be a voice against religion but atheists don't congregate in groups, hence their pooing religion.

I think that is changing because once again there is a lot of war in the world due to religion. It was made worse by the fact that many percieve Bush to be 'very very' christian, so they see the war on terror etc as a religious war. Atheists doing things like this is a way for people to stand up and say 'no, i don't want to be a part of this'. It'll die down again if the wars die down. Whether or not the increased level of secularism and religion dies does as well is another matter

Like minded folks have always congregated.  There are evangelical Christians and atheists.

I don't think thats neccessarily true, or we would always have had atheist 'churches' or 'big groups of atheists that discuss things'. It is often said by people banging the atheist drum of war that tiny groups have lobbies in the american government, that take up around 0.1% of the population, but atheists don't and they take up 5-15%.
Logged
Mere Nick
Lee's Inner Circle Member
*******

Manna: 257
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 10370


Reckon you could make me some biscuits?

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 07:31:42 AM »

Seems reasonable, alan.  It's sort of like in politics where classically liberal folks such as the conservatives here in America don't always do so well in politics because it would require some measure of organization and the like, which runs counter to many of their underlying beliefs of just wanting to live their lives with minimum interference from organization and the like.
Logged

taller, better looking and smarter . . .

They turned me loose from the nervous hospital.  Said I was well.  Mmm hmm.

Suffering for your beliefs is called faithfulness, making others suffer for your beliefs is called being a jerk.

His cross, like the ark in the wilderness, is the center around which his people are to encamp; so that they cannot separate into factions, or withdraw from each other, without retiring at the same time from the presence of the cross.
Christian Forums
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 07:31:42 AM »

 Logged
Mrs Mac
Member
***

Manna: 18
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 405


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 11:21:17 PM »

From the article;
Quote
Michael Evans, 66, branded baptising children as "a form of child abuse" -- and said that when he complained to the church where he was christened he was told to contact the European Court of Human Rights.

Maybe he thinks it's a form of waterboarding. 
Logged

Howdyboyalan
Senior Member
****

Manna: 69
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 1799

Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 05:40:10 AM »

You gotta understand how rabidly anti christian these guys are. A lot of people here would be  outraged if a muslim kidnapped a baby from a christian family and gave it initiation rights into islam before giving it back (abstract I know). To nearly every thinking atheist I have met (one that actually thinks about reasons for no god etc, in opposed to atheists who are just non-religions and are not concerned with faith) they are more anti religious establishment than god, going for a baptism is helping to prop up the 'evil organisation'
Logged
fanuvmxpx
Hero
*****

Manna: 84
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 3877


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 10:54:51 AM »

A public de-confessional? I think it will work

"Deny Me before men, and I will deny you before My Father, which is in Heaven"
Logged

Greater is He Who is in you, than he who is in the world
lightshineon
Hero
*****

Manna: 95
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Female
Posts: 4471


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 11:54:35 AM »

I think the rise of militant atheism and atheists doing this is a counter culture. By nature atheists are very independent. People like Richard Dawkins try to encourage them to come together to be a voice against religion but atheists don't congregate in groups, hence their pooing religion.

I think that is changing because once again there is a lot of war in the world due to religion. It was made worse by the fact that many percieve Bush to be 'very very' christian, so they see the war on terror etc as a religious war. Atheists doing things like this is a way for people to stand up and say 'no, i don't want to be a part of this'. It'll die down again if the wars die down. Whether or not the increased level of secularism and atheism dies does as well is another matter
i consider Bush christian, and Obama evil. I wish everyone would stop blaming Bush for everything. These people are just reprobate, and Bush had nothing to do with that. Alan that just is enough, of baring false witness against Bush. Heck, he was not even your president. I like you very much, I think you are really a nice guy, and intelligent, but, blaming Bush. I blame the mostly large Muslim population, and being a secular nation to begin with in the UK, and the United States my as well be. We have the "Beast, that will destroy the Body", as our president, covering the name of our Lord and savior. God, I believe will hold everyone accountable, since Bush is not critical of our new president.

Logged

Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who will be glad to step on them.
              F.T. 2007
Christian Forums
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2009, 11:54:35 AM »

 Logged
fanuvmxpx
Hero
*****

Manna: 84
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 3877


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2009, 12:09:54 PM »

i consider Bush christian, and Obama evil.

Not me. I heard Bush say that the Constitution is just a gd (badword) piece of paper. Nope, I don't see any fruit of Christ in his life. No 'born-again' transformation.

That said, I think he did as good a job as anyone could have as president during his terms. However, he blew it at the end with the bailout scandals.
Logged

Greater is He Who is in you, than he who is in the world
Jon-Marc
Hero
*****

Manna: 148
Offline Offline

Mood:

Gender: Male
Posts: 3513


Blog entries (0)

View Profile
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2009, 12:39:47 PM »

How can anyone UN-baptize themselves? A certificate saying you're no longer baptized won't change the fact that you have been baptized.
Logged

Clothed in the Righteousness of Christ.
Amo
Senior Member
****

Manna: 37
Offline Offline

Mood:

Posts: 986

Blog entries (9)

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 01:15:47 PM »

Quote
John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.

Infant baptism is wrong and unbiblical.  I can understand people being upset that they were baptized into this or that church or religion, before they were old enough to make the choice for themselves.  If this unbiblical practice had not been performed on so many to young to make the decision for themselves, we might not even be seeing this movement today.
Logged
Christian Forums
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 01:15:47 PM »

 Logged
Tantor
Guest
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 01:27:12 PM »

Quote
John Hunt, a 58-year-old from London and one of the first to try to be "de-baptised," held that he was too young to make any decision when he was christened at five months old.

Infant baptism is wrong and unbiblical.  I can understand people being upset that they were baptized into this or that church or religion, before they were old enough to make the choice for themselves.  If this unbiblical practice had not been performed on so many to young to make the decision for themselves, we might not even be seeing this movement today.


There is a ton of scriptural and historical evidence for infant baptism... so to say it is unbiblical is your own opinion.. and to be honest, I view it as an outright lie on your part.


Logged
MegaJedi
Guest
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 02:14:16 PM »

kids do not know what they are getting into when they get baptised.  I believe in infint dedication, not baptisim.
Logged
100,000 Britons Seek Debaptism - Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



Login with username, password and session length

Grace-Centered Christian Forums
Bible concordance | abortion ticker | is God real? | galaga | play tetris | copter game | mini golf games | arcade | donkey kong | Christian marriage help | articles | privacy
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC