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« on: April 14, 2005, 03:06:22 PM »
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By
Knoxville News Sentinel
JEANNINE F. HUNTER, [a href=\"mailto:hunter@knews.com\"]hunter@knews.com[/a] April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2005, 05:50:00 PM »
How could someone put a sign like that up, then say "the intent was not to offend"? :shrug:
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2005, 05:50:00 PM »
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2005, 06:55:04 PM »
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How could someone put a sign like that up, then say "the intent was not to offend"? :shrug:
They probably figure any honest Catholic who sees that will come beating on the door to be led in the Sinner's Prayer.
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2005, 06:55:04 PM »
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2005, 07:37:11 PM »
Not a good message, but I could also see a CofC doing the same thing.
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2005, 09:34:33 AM »
Reverand Cline Franklin said, "What does pope mean?  It means father.  We have a heavenly father, and the bible says we should call no man father".

Does anyone else see a contridiction here?  Pslams 111:9.  Says holy and reverend is his name.  Why this guy calling himself or letting anyone else call him that?
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« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2005, 09:36:10 PM »
Good point. (However, the possibility does exist that the gentleman in question does not refer to himself as "Reverend", and that it was only the reporter who assigned him this title.)
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2005, 06:27:57 AM »
So far as I can tell, there was an aspect of the way God dealt with His people pre-Cross, pre-Resurrection, that worked from a "national" viewpoint.

Scriptures and discussion thereof from a post-Incarnation viewpoint, which refer to the Church and the Bride and God saving His people, just don't quite have the same "save-em-in-a-herd" feel to me.

Now maybe if I'd lived among Israel way back then I'd have "felt" my individual relationship to God more, I dunno.

But anyway, the point is, if God ever did save His people in national chunks, He doesn't now.  Speculations about an individual's eternal destiny, especially not being intimately acquainted with the guy, and going by only what his religious group is supposed to teach, have very limited value.

If that nice man, that good man, that useful man, ends up in Hell, it won't be because he was Catholic.  It won't be because his philosophies and way of seeing God were different from yours or mine.  It won't be because millions of people honored him, even though some may have done so unhealthily / excessively, for his good heart and hard work.

If he is separated from God forever, it will be for the same reasons you or I might end up that way.

We won't get to Heaven because we can claim allegiance to a particular religious school of thought or faith-tradition.  It won't be because of our good works or because people honored us for them, either.

When you and I and Mr. Karol and Prince Ranier and everyone else stand together at the Judgement, waiting to see how the crowd will divide, the fate of every one of us depends upon the efficacy of the blood of Christ.

You and I can speculate, if we want to, about whether or not any other person ever stood in submission to God, so that the blood of the Son was applied to him/her during life --

And you and I can speculate, if we want to, about whether or not said person held such off-from-the-Bible views as to negate what the Christ did for him/her --

If we want to take up the time doing such a thing.

But we need to remember to apply the same themes to ourselves, in discussion and in private thought.  Have we[/b] ever fully submitted to God?  Is there any set of views, any religious philosophy, hermeneutic, emphasis on churchy actions, that we can hold, in the strength of our own minds, that will clinch our salvation secure, more sure than the arms of Jesus?  Is there anything that will override the blood of Christ and condemn us?  

I know where those sign people are coming from, but the way they handled it was the billboard equivalent of attending atheist Aunt Mildred's funeral and hoping to win converts to Christ by describing in detail the torments Auntie is now suffering in the Lake of Fire.
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2005, 01:37:43 PM »
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If that nice man, that good man, that useful man, ends up in Hell, it won't be because he was Catholic.  It won't be because his philosophies and way of seeing God were different from yours or mine.  It won't be because millions of people honored him, even though some may have done so unhealthily / excessively, for his good heart and hard work.

If he is separated from God forever, it will be for the same reasons you or I might end up that way.

We won't get to Heaven because we can claim allegiance to a particular religious school of thought or faith-tradition.  It won't be because of our good works or because people honored us for them, either.

When you and I and Mr. Karol and Prince Ranier and everyone else stand together at the Judgement, waiting to see how the crowd will divide, the fate of every one of us depends upon the efficacy of the blood of Christ.
:amen:
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2005, 06:24:14 AM »
Quote
Baptist church 'fake pope' sign attracting attention, criticism By
Knoxville News Sentinel
JEANNINE F. HUNTER, [a href=\"mailto:hunter@knews.com\"]hunter@knews.com[/a] April 13, 2005

NEWPORT, Tenn. - Two days after being posted, a church marquee message that questions the purpose of the papacy is still attracting attention in this small community.

"What I am trying to do is to let people know there's only one way to heaven through Jesus Christ," said the Rev. Cline Franklin, pastor of Hilltop Baptist Church. "There's no need for help. God sent his son, Jesus Christ. We're all priests if we're saved. I don't need to go to anybody else to pray."

The sign's side facing Broadway, the main thoroughfare in Newport, reads, "No truth, No hope Following a hell-bound pope!" On the other side, facing the church parking lot, it reads: "False hope in a fake pope."

The message appeared days after Pope John Paul II's funeral last week.

"It is unfortunate when it comes from within the Christian church. It's really sad," said the Rev. Dan Whitman, 54, pastor of Newport's Good Shepherd Catholic parish and Holy Trinity parish in Jefferson City. "You learn how to deal with it and pray not to be that way yourself."

It does not reflect mainstream Baptist thought, said Dr. Merrill "Mel" Hawkins, associate professor of religion and director of the Center for Baptist Studies at Carson-Newman College in Jefferson City.

"When you see signs like that, they are almost like relics or artifacts of a bygone era," Hawkins said.

He spoke about animus between Protestants and Catholics persisting after the Protestant Reformation and for centuries, during which "harsh things were said, couched within misperceptions, misunderstandings."

Among the major misperceptions is that Catholics "venerate the pope on the same level as Jesus," Hawkins said, and that "the pope is connected to their salvation in place of Jesus Christ."

Catholics make up about 12 percent of the population in the South.

"Catholics are a minority faith in the South, and there's often bias toward minority religious communities because people don't understand," he said.

James Gaddis, a lay speaker who also chairs the board at First United Methodist Church, said he had not seen the sign but had heard about it.

"I understand that it's very degrading," he said. "I think it's tragic that any church group would stoop to this posture."

Following Tuesday night's council meeting, Newport Mayor Roland Dykes Jr. said he was a little saddened by the message.

"It doesn't behoove any of us to determine who is going to heaven or hell. I think the pope is a highly, highly respected person," he said.

Franklin's church is a five-year-old independent Baptist church. When asked what the message meant, he said: "What does 'pope' mean? It means father. We have a heavenly father, and the Bible says we shall call no man a father. "

He said people have been driving by or taking pictures or calling to share their views. He said the intent was not to offend Catholics and people are misunderstanding the sign.

Copyright 2005, Knoxville News-Sentinel Co.
It equally distracts from true witness in Christ as does all the faldara about the pope.

ollie
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 07:13:59 AM »
That church needs prayers, IMO.

Let's.  :pray:

Memmy :)
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2005, 07:13:59 AM »
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2005, 07:45:52 AM »
:preachit:  :amen: Janine!
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