Christian Forums

For those who do not know, Pope Benedict has already publically said that protestants are not true christians and will not inherit salvation outside the catholic church:

I just found another interesting article, that says the Catholics believe they have the bones of Paul the Apostle, and that he was catholic.

Pope finds St Paul's bones (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31599704/ns/technology_and_science-science)

I wonder if this will support their case that we're all psychos?

I'm sure God will decide who is going to heaven by the purity of their soul, Christian life, and compassion.

He will not care about all his children's silly doctrinal squabbles!    ::smile::

1. Other than that it involves the Catholic church and the pope what connection are your drawing to the story, and how does finding bones of a man from the 1st century (they don't have dna, so proving it's not just any ol' 1st century man is going to prove impossible...can't believe MSNBC didn't point that out) declare protestants anything much less psycho? 

2. The Catholic stance on "separated brethren" is not what you claim.  The pope has said that non-Catholic churches are not proper churches, lacking apostolic succession.  But even that doesn't mean what you've implied it does.  That's not the same as saying "protestants are not true christians and will not inherit salvation."  In fact, this is what the Vatican (post Vatican II) has said:

"It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church." "Decree on Ecumenism: Unitatis Redintegratio" (1964)

It's a tad bit more complicated than the reductionist claim that "protestants go to hell."

Fortunately, my faith and salvation are not hinged on what the pope says or even thinks. He is just a sinful man in need of salvation like everyone else. My assurance of forgiveness comes from Jesus Christ and not the pope.

Well i don't believe the pope is saved. so there!

I wish it were so, but Pope Benedict (who removed the Catholic church from the governing powers of state) has publicly declared that Christians will not go to heaven, here is the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/

"It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, “Dominus Iesus,” which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the “means of salvation.”

No means of salvation = no christians are saved.

And I suppose the rest of us are to believe the Pope has a say in it? My ggodnes, from a Church system that worships idols, Mary and any number of thing that arent Biblical??

the pope is the supposed spokesperson for God. he ratifies & canonizes their laws. i don't know how else to approach it.

Quoting the document itself, not an MSNBC correspondent...

“Therefore, these separated Churches and communities as such, though we believe they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church”.

Again, it's not as simple as the reductionist statement you keep making.  Even the pope himself has said it's far more complicated.  In the article you linked, they even expressed that they weren't backing away from their ecumenical efforts, but are stating what they believe about themselves.  In truth, Benedict has said that he believes some non-Christians (like Jews, Buddhists, and Muslims) will be saved.  That got 'im in a brew with some of his own folk.

I can imagine, but it certainly assists with the one world religion prophesied to come.

Thanks, Larry.

Yup, good post Larry, there are certainly believers in Catholicism, my mom came from them.

I also believe it isn't how perfectly right we are about how one does church. But leadership is almost always corrupt and pride leads to destruction. We are like sheep that get led astray. If a person loves God and others then that person is a child of God. Judging, such as the dear pope does, creates judgment for that person.

Thank you Larry for that post.  You always clear up the issues at hand for me and I'm truly grateful for your spiritual wisdom.  Thank you all in everything.  I do believe the Lord looks at our hearts and not so much our doctrine.  Most probably, in the Lords eyes, there are saved people in many places.  Look at some of the prophets before Jesus.  I'm sure our Lord has a place for them as well as us believers.  Thank you Jesus as you are most of our Saviors'.  Without You, we would have been dead in our own transgressions.  Thank you again, Lord.  You are the love of all.
Candy 

You seem to do a lot of judging around here. 

if what you say is true
then you and I are in deep deep trouble because our Christian life stinks our compassion is based on sinful motives
and our souls deserve only hell with the rest of the sinful world .
But thanks be to Christ what you say is not true . And God is mercyful and saves us people who do not deserve to be saved.


Romans 5:6

 6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.

Luke 18:9-14

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
 9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
 13"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

 14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

That goes to show that the pope doesn't adhere to the Word of God. Jesus said that He was the way, the truth and the life(John14:6). It's not some man made denomination that is the way, the truth and the life. Acts4:12 mentions how there is no other Name in Heaven, other than the Lord Jesus Christ, that people can find salvation. That's right, that scipture tells you straight out that it is through the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ that salvation is found. Not through some man made denomination.

Acts10:43 mentions that the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that anyone who believes on Him shall receive remission of sins. That is not through believing in some man made denomination, it is not through believing in the pope, or on anyone with some title, It is believing the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans5:1 says that we are justified through faith, and we have peace with God through the Lord Jesus Christ. Never does it mention we need to attend he catholic church and some ma made denomination.

Denominations are demonically set up to divide people I'm not saying that everyone who goes to churches under a denomination are practicing this sin, but the system itself is demonic. Denominations divide people. Ephesians4:3-6 mentions of how there should be unity in the body of Christ. We serve One God, one faith, one baptism. On the day of pentacost(Acts chapter2), they all worshipped the Lord in one accord. They were not divided in any way. They were in unity with one another. Can you say that about churches when they are divided into denominations?

Satan has worked hard to get the body of Christ divided. That way, our testimony to the world isn't very strong. People can't say they love thy neighbor when they can't even worship God together. Satan controls the ways of this worldly system(2ND Corinthians4:4, Ephesians2:2). Ungodly religious systems are controlled by Satan. The catholic church's hierarchy is controlled by Satan.

Who's will is the pope really doing? God or Satan? He is promting lies rather than speak for the gospel. You figure someone with that kind of position, if they truly stood for Christ, they would preach the gospel of salvation to people. I have "never" seen the pope evangelize. Yet people are so deceived to think he's of God.

Just reading this. But it's the same ol' song & dance. A Catholic Pope still against the protestant doctrine- just as the Protestants against the Catholic beliefs. Nothing new here. And the Pope does not speak for God, we know, he speaks for Catholicism.
They may have found St.Paul's remains, maybe, happy joy joy, with his name inscribed on the tomb-

Oh boy what a shocker. Everyone knows St. Paul was martyred at Rome! But the Pope is seriously at a loss to claim St. Paul was a Catholic! Catholic seems to be the very 1st dividing of the faith into denominations a few centuries after the Apostles.

Acts 11:25-26,
25 Then Barnabas departed for Tarsus to seek Saul. 26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.

And so it was. St. Paul was a "Christian!"  St. Paul was up in heaven when the "Pope" came into the history of the church, probably protesting in heaven too- "Oh Lord, what have they done to the gospel you gave to me for them?!!!!"   ::blushing::

Yes, but at the time, "Christian" WAS a sect.  A sect of Judaism.

Reminds me of Matthew 23
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.


Interestingly enough, if you go to a site like voice of the martyrs, it can be suprising how much modern persecution of christians has come from catholics (am thinking of developing nations.) The degree suprised me anyway. A visiting speaker from a south american country (I think argentina but not 100%) told the group that only 40 years ago, (it was originally 30, but that was 10 years ago) christians were still being beaten up, imprisioned and even killed by catholics where he came from.

And they have to prove the bones are Pauls. They've been trying to prove apostles relics for a long time. 

  I agree completely. We are not to judge.  There are many spirit filled christians regardless of their denomination.

I agree, judging the destinity of the soul of a believer in Jesus is a bit out of our league.  Course that does not count if you are a calvanist then you are free to judge freewiller's destinity.

Does anyone really care what Popes, Priests or Pastors say any longer? 

Jesus Christ established a Church—not a book—to be the Foundation of the Christian faith
(Luke 20:29-32; Matt. 10:40; 28:18-20).


'You are Peter and Upon This Rock, I will build My Church' Christ-Matthew 16:18

You are Peter
This rock, my church...its very simple. Theres No Plural.


This is why we have 35,000 Competing, Cannibalizing Protestant Sects, none can agree on interpreting scripture.



What good is it ... if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? (James 2:14)

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified"
-James 2:24

So then because thou are lukewarm, and Neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
-Revelation 3:16


"They preach but they do not practice"
-Christ (Matt. 23:3).

and some still  wonder why ?the Lutheran confessions identfy the papacy as the anti Christ .

WHAT AND WHO can be more Anti Christ than the papacy who sits   in the largest christian church in the world.   one billion plus  and teaches  christian people that Christ work his perfect life in their stead and his innocent death for their sins  wasnt good enough to save them..

you just cant get more Anti Christ than that . trying to destroy why Jesus came and  has won and done for people.

So as a Protestant I won't be going to heaven after all? ::cryingtears::
I Protest that. ::nodding::

Of course its silly to claim that any 1st century Christians were Roman Catholic, it would be even more silly though for someone to claim that they were Protestants.

I luv your storm-trooper avatar thingy. It's Way cool. ::cool::

It's silly to claim either...there were no Roman Catholics or Protestants in the first century.

There were montanists, donatists and novatians.

In Christ,
KP

And folks from the one true church, the school of the Bible, aka Bible Church.