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Author Topic: States Consider Drug Tests for Welfare Recipients  (Read 1878 times)
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« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2009, 07:44:51 AM »
Quote from: sopranette on March 30, 2009, 07:41:51 AM
That would be the ideal, Gary, but it's not reality.

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sopranette

True, and it is also true that Christian charity and government welfare are two very different things.
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2009, 07:45:30 AM »
Quote from: sopranette on March 30, 2009, 07:36:52 AM
And drug addicts are not worthy of our charity, either?  I agree giving them cash is not a brilliant idea, but they still need our help in some fashion.

love,

sopranette

No, they are not. They are responsible for the majority of crimes against persons and property in our country. And please don't ask me to do the research for you on such an obvious point. Just talk to any state prosecuter in any major city. They will talk your ear off about it.
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« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2009, 07:45:30 AM »
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2009, 07:47:50 AM »
Quote from: sopranette on March 30, 2009, 06:02:54 AM
You can't compare military personnel to welfare recipients.  Military personnel are in charge of some serious weaponry, and are responsible not just for their own lives, but the lives of those around them as well.  Of course you would want that person to be stone cold sober at all times.  But seriously, it's okay to test Medicare recipients and people on disability?  C'mon, these people are on medications anyway, so what's the point of drug testing?  There's a man who sits in front of us in church who was in a terrible car crash.  He can barely walk, and can't stand up for more than a couple of minutes at a time.  I have seen him come in to service high as a kite on more than one occasion.  He is on disability. It's just another example of how we have given up our fourth amendment, and are putting all of our trust in Big Brother.  Do you really think our government has any boundaries as to who's privacy they invade?  I sure don't.  A person is innocent until proven guilty, so if they are going to start testing people for illegal activity, they better have some evidence to go on first, according to the Constitution.

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sopranette

Has nothing to do with a constitution.  Taking government money requires filling out an application.  Right then and there an expectation of privacy is gone.  If stipulations are placed upon taking that money it is no more unconstitutional than someone voluntarily taking a drug test on a job application.  If you want privacy don't take the money.  Nothing unconstitutional about strings being attached.
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« Reply #32 on: March 30, 2009, 07:47:50 AM »
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« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2009, 07:52:25 AM »
You're not playing our little game by the rules Gary. The rules say that everything Sophie doesn't like is somehow unconstitutional.  Bueno!
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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2009, 07:55:29 AM »
Hey, now!  Messing with you  And yes, taking drugs does start out as a choice, but it takes medical intervention to overcome an adiction. Since drug addicts don't have the money for treatment, yes, it takes charity on our part to help them recover.

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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2009, 08:00:27 AM »
Quote from: sopranette on March 30, 2009, 07:55:29 AM
Hey, now!  Messing with you  And yes, taking drugs does start out as a choice, but it takes medical intervention to overcome an adiction. Since drug addicts don't have the money for treatment, yes, it takes charity on our part to help them recover.

love,

sopranette

That assumes they actually want help, which is not the case for the majority of them. And if I recall, the last time we had a discussion about forcing them to get help, you were against that too.  Confused  If I remember correctly, you insisted it would be unconstitutional.  Rolling
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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2009, 08:00:27 AM »
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« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2009, 08:12:16 AM »
Absolutely, forcing them to get help is not only unconstitutional, but it doesn't work.  That does not give us the right to simply dump them on the street.  We should be willing to help our fellow man when and if he needs and wants it.

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« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2009, 08:17:14 AM »
Even many Salvation Army shelters have started drug testing people before they allow them in. There was a big article about the Phoenix Salvation Army shelter doing it last winter. They are tired of the druggies messing up their attempts to help those who really want and need the help.
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« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2009, 09:37:55 AM »
Quote from: OneLung on March 30, 2009, 08:17:14 AM
Even many Salvation Army shelters have started drug testing people before they allow them in. There was a big article about the Phoenix Salvation Army shelter doing it last winter. They are tired of the druggies messing up their attempts to help those who really want and need the help.

Good point but they are actually staying in a Shelter not getting help to provide for family in their own home. Salvation Army doesn't drug test everyone who needs their facility and asks for their gas bill to be paid.

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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2009, 09:47:57 AM »
Quote from: didget01 on March 30, 2009, 09:37:55 AM
Quote from: OneLung on March 30, 2009, 08:17:14 AM
Even many Salvation Army shelters have started drug testing people before they allow them in. There was a big article about the Phoenix Salvation Army shelter doing it last winter. They are tired of the druggies messing up their attempts to help those who really want and need the help.

Good point but they are actually staying in a Shelter not getting help to provide for family in their own home. Salvation Army doesn't drug test everyone who needs their facility and asks for their gas bill to be paid.

Darlene

It wasn't meant as a comparison to welfare, just an observation that even charitable organizations are tired of drug addicts and all the problems they cause. Picking out one or two that may or may not have become an addict through no fault of their own may make the bleeding hearts feel all warm and fuzzy, but it doesn't change the fact that the overwhelming number of addicts are criminals who only want to milk the system for whatever they can. And America's welfare system has always been one of their favorite targets.
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« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2009, 09:47:57 AM »
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« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2009, 10:33:55 AM »
This is nothing more than an offshoot of the whole "War on Drugs".  It should never have been a war, but a medical crisis.  Those who would trade our liberty for security deserve neither.

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« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2009, 11:52:19 AM »
This would actually cost the taxpayer more. Those found guilty of drugs will be placed in treatment facilities at our expense. I highly doubt in their "time of need" that they will be removed off social care.

Random drug screenings? Bad idea, it will cost us more.
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« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2009, 01:07:15 PM »
A similar argument was used many years ago when opponents claimed drug testing would cost industry more than they speculated would be gained in productivity increases. Today, it is a known fact that strict drug policies have significantly increased the overall productivity of American workers.
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« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2009, 01:07:15 PM »
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« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2009, 01:14:19 PM »
Quote from: OneLung on March 30, 2009, 01:07:15 PM
A similar argument was used many years ago when opponents claimed drug testing would cost industry more than they speculated would be gained in productivity increases. Today, it is a known fact that strict drug policies have significantly increased the overall productivity of American workers.

Arguable numbers. Truth is, a census of who is or isn't capable of working would sway my decision.
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« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2009, 02:26:49 PM »
Of course it's not unconstitutional!  Everyone knows that that "unlawful search and seizure" thing only was meant for important things like houses and cars and not trifles like our bodies and our blood.  It's raining
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