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General Discussion => News from Around the World => Topic started by: mommydi on Wed Jan 22, 2020 - 19:06:32

Title: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Jan 22, 2020 - 19:06:32
Big deal or not?

Thoughts?


Look at this-
https://twitter.com/TruthRaiderHQ/status/1220033745094414339
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 06:07:31
No.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 07:21:01
Not bothering me though they are really having issues in China about it as of morning news.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 07:31:13
I think we'd have a healthier world if Asians stopped eating rats, primates, snakes, and bats.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: soterion on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 08:06:42
It would also help if they would stop eating western foods. ::smile::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 08:23:27
It would also help if they would stop eating western foods. ::smile::

As a western girl, I'll take my quarter pounder with cheese and daylight donuts with accompanying heart disease over their bat soup and monkey brains diet with accompanying mutating viruses and pandemics any day of the week.


https://www.ladbible.com/news/news-scientists-say-bats-could-be-linked-to-coronavirus-20200123
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: RB on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 09:55:57
I think we'd have a healthier world if Asians stopped eating rats, primates, snakes, and bats.
More so if they stop drinking BLOOD of certain animals! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O_ytJ_tloA
Quote from: True blooded western girl
As a western girl, I'll take my quarter pounder with cheese and daylight donuts with accompanying heart disease over their bat soup and monkey brains diet with accompanying mutating viruses and pandemics any day of the week.
You sound like Sherry! You deserve to hear this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AgZST_TG8
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:01:19
More so if they stop drinking BLOOD of certain animals! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O_ytJ_tloA You sound like Sherry! You deserve to hear this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4AgZST_TG8

RB!!!!!! That first video!  ::puking::

The last few days, I've seen videos of some of the most disgusting food choices EVER - taken in various Asian countries. Eating live rats, live frogs, whole bats in soup, fried cats (fried whole with their head looking right at you), etc. IMO, it's an abomination to eat live animals and no wonder so many nasty pandemics start in Asian countries with wet markets and vile eating choices.
IMO, when people mock and disrespect nature by eating animals while they're alive, nature turns on the humans - God's plan!


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 12:46:39
RB!!!!!! That first video!  ::puking::

The last few days, I've seen videos of some of the most disgusting food choices EVER - taken in various Asian countries. Eating live rats, live frogs, whole bats in soup, fried cats (fried whole with their head looking right at you), etc. IMO, it's an abomination to eat live animals and no wonder so many nasty pandemics start in Asian countries with wet markets and vile eating choices.
IMO, when people mock and disrespect nature by eating animals while they're alive, nature turns on the humans - God's plan!

Absolutely correct, mommydi +1.

I heard 2 or 3 days ago that this started from bats or snakes from a live farm. Which I assume is a supplier to people wanting these live foods.

I also read that young pigs were infected by bats and who knows how many pigs were eaten...

I also heard Hong Kong has declared a state of emergency

Hong Kong’s government has put the territory on the highest state of emergency in response to the outbreak of coronavirus in mainland China. Schools will remain closed until Feb. 17, long after the Chinese New Year holidays, which begin today, should have finished.

https://variety.com/2020/biz/asia/hong-kong-declares-emergency-coronavirus-response-1203479971/

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 13:57:06
Absolutely correct, mommydi +1.

I heard 2 or 3 days ago that this started from bats or snakes from a live farm. Which I assume is a supplier to people wanting these live foods.

I also read that young pigs were infected by bats and who knows how many pigs were eaten...

I also heard Hong Kong has declared a state of emergency

Hong Kong’s government has put the territory on the highest state of emergency in response to the outbreak of coronavirus in mainland China. Schools will remain closed until Feb. 17, long after the Chinese New Year holidays, which begin today, should have finished.

https://variety.com/2020/biz/asia/hong-kong-declares-emergency-coronavirus-response-1203479971/

Rella, whether this turns into some kind of deadly pandemic or fizzles out, we need to go ahead and work on our immune system. I'm always low on Vitamin D. Just took a dose and now sitting outside on this beautiful 67 degree sunny day and trying to get some D that way, too.

Tomorrow is freezing rain - so got to get sun it when I can!



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 18:30:16
Rella, whether this turns into some kind of deadly pandemic or fizzles out, we need to go ahead and work on our immune system. I'm always low on Vitamin D. Just took a dose and now sitting outside on this beautiful 67 degree sunny day and trying to get some D that way, too.

Tomorrow is freezing rain - so got to get sun it when I can!

I do do Vit D daily.  In fact, last year doc took mom of he D supplement cause it had gotten too high and told her not to supplement.

I cant sit in the sun. I burn and using sun block if I am in it too long, it simply drains me of all energy.  But my D levels are good.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 07:56:33
Here is a tracker if anyone is interested.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 10:52:21
Here is a tracker if anyone is interested.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)

Thanks, Alan.

Looks like they're testing two people here in OK for it-

https://kfor.com/2020/01/27/osdh-testing-2-in-oklahoma-for-possible-coronavirus/


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 11:33:04
Should you be worried?

https://youtu.be/4k3d9qocxxc
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 12:04:25
Should you be worried?

https://youtu.be/4k3d9qocxxc

Along the same line -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FKA-3uRdQY
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 14:55:28
5 confirmed cases in the US.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 10:52:06
I just watched a live news conference with my state's health department people. Interesting.

Of course they downplayed all of it, and were reassuring- I guess to avoid panic.

They did give instructions on how to isolate someone in your home who is ill - dedicating a specific room for them that is regularly disinfected, etc, but how many people will actually do that? Every year, the regular flu spreads all over the place because people refuse to isolate themselves while ill.

They did say the best defense against this is a strong immune system. I'm not freaking out about this virus at all, but I am working on building my immune system and encouraging family members to do the same.

Plenty of rest
Less stress
Sunshine if possible
Fresh air
Gentle exercise
No sugar
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3 and K2

Also reviewing thorough hand washing practices and avoiding touching the face. There's nothing like being told to avoid touching your face to make you need to touch your face!
I'm also diffusing thieves oil in my home. I'm not sure if it actually disinfects the air as touted, but smells good anyway.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Choir Loft on Sat Feb 01, 2020 - 08:04:51
Big deal or not?

Thoughts?


Look at this-
https://twitter.com/TruthRaiderHQ/status/1220033745094414339

Has it occurred to anyone that this issue may have been contrived?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Feb 01, 2020 - 08:10:10
I heard it was contrived in a biological weapons lab in China. And it got out of the lab somehow.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Feb 14, 2020 - 10:54:33
IMO, this is looking more and more like the Chinese government is using this virus as a cover to commit genocide on Christians, Muslims, anti-communist protestors, and just an abundance of men in general. I've seen too many videos now of perfectly healthy looking individuals wrestled to the ground and hauled off. So all of the sudden, the videos we see go from dead virus victims lying in the streets to healthy individuals being wrestled to the ground and hauled off. Some of these supposed flu victims appear to have super human strength if it takes four grown men to wrestle them to the ground.
They're thinning the heard - getting rid of dissidents, and blaming it on the flu.

Socialism/Communism playing out in front of us.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Feb 14, 2020 - 11:24:42
IMO, this is looking more and more like the Chinese government is using this virus as a cover to commit genocide on Christians, Muslims, anti-communist protestors, and just an abundance of men in general. I've seen too many videos now of perfectly healthy looking individuals wrestled to the ground and hauled off. So all of the sudden, the videos we see go from dead virus victims lying in the streets to healthy individuals being wrestled to the ground and hauled off. Some of these supposed flu victims appear to have super human strength if it takes four grown men to wrestle them to the ground.
They're thinning the heard - getting rid of dissidents, and blaming it on the flu.

Socialism/Communism playing out in front of us.

Bernie! Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fnq5VD1FXhg/maxresdefault.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnq5VD1FXhg
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sat Feb 15, 2020 - 00:56:14
The vast, vast majority of reported cases are in China.  What we know for sure about those cases is that we can't trust the "official" reports.  I doubt there's a way to know what's really going on.

There is a corona virus research facility near the Wuhan outbreak epicenter.  No way to know if that's really the source.

Rumors it came from an icky "wet market" where their weirdo culture sells things like bats for food.  Rumors the exotic mammal the pangolin is a vector.  Who knows?

There are reports from China that health workers are being infected in spite of wearing protective clothing.  Are they true?  How can that happen -- Are they wearing wrong-quality masks, or are the virus particles fantastically tiny and able to pass through or what?

Experts are uncertain whether COVID19 (the new official name) can even be transmitted "airborne" through aerosolized sneeze or cough droplets lingering in the air in the first place.

There is evidence COVID19 can be found in fecal matter from infected persons, but it's unclear whether this can be a source of transmission.

A report from a hotel or apartment in Hong Kong suggests the virus can be transmitted through plumbing, as was also true of SARS (another in the corona virus family).

It is unclear how infectious COVID19 is.  Infectiousness is measured by "R0" (usually pronounced "R-nought").  Flu typically has an R0 of about 1.3, meaning each person infected with flu will on average infect 1.3 other people.  SARS has an R0 somewhat less than 1.  Same with MERS.  There is some consensus that COVID19 has R0 of about 2.2 or 2.3, but no one really knows; estimates range from less than 1 to something like 4.75.

Mortality rate is uncertain.  So far, all reported deaths have been in China, and their reporting is unreliable.  Based on their dubious numbers, mortality is about 2% or 1 in 50.  That is higher than flu (I can't find good numbers for flu) but lower than SARS (1 in 10) or MERS (maybe over 1 in 3).

It is uncertain whether the virus can be transmitted to and from pets.  (This Newsweek article (https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-spread-contagious-everything-know-1486934) makes the silly recommendation that, just on general principles, people should wash their hands thoroughly for at least 20 seconds after handling pets.  If it were determined that such practice were really important, no one would ever again own pets.  Hell, I sleep with my cat, with her face right next to mine!  The same article insists we wash our hands thoroughly for 20 seconds any time we blow our noses, and *immediately* throw away the tissue; and that we always cough into a tissue or our elbow.  I have allergies, which includes chronic cough.  I cover my cough when I'm around humans.  If I coughed into my elbow literally *every* time I cough, I'd need shoulder surgery.  I'd have to convert one room of my house into storage for kleenex boxes, and another into a giant incinerator to dispose of used ones, and I'd need to take out a loan to pay the water bill for all the hand-washing, and to pay for skin grafts on my hands.)

This article (https://orthomolecular.acemlna.com/lt.php?s=3caf39885604de9d49bcf37bd16370cc&i=136A140A1A6257) talks about an interesting experimental approach.  But since it's happening in China, I have no confidence the results will be trustworthy.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sat Feb 15, 2020 - 08:52:27
Vial of COVID19 being sent to Pitt (https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2020/02/14/coronavirus-university-of-pittsburgh/) for research.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Feb 15, 2020 - 10:52:01
The vast, vast majority of reported cases are in China.  What we know for sure about those cases is that we can't trust the "official" reports.  I doubt there's a way to know what's really going on.


Right. I also don't trust any videos I see coming from China. Truth? Propaganda? Who knows? People need to keep in mind that these little videos we're seeing on various social media sites are mostly being pulled from Tik Tok.
Keep in mind what Tik Tok is and who owns it-

Quote
Wki: TikTok is a video-sharing social networking service owned by ByteDance, a Beijing-based company founded in 2012 by Zhang Yiming. It is used to create short lip-sync, comedy, and talent videos. The app was launched in 2017 for iOS and Android for markets outside of China.
So communist China owns and controls Tik Tok and the videos we're seeing.

Quote
It is uncertain whether the virus can be transmitted to and from pets.  (This Newsweek article makes the silly recommendation that, just on general principles, people should wash their hands thoroughly for at least 20 seconds after handling pets.  If it were determined that such practice were really important, no one would ever again own pets.  Hell, I sleep with my cat, with her face right next to mine!
Yep, I slept with my little doggie until she passed away in December. Now I borrow my grand-doggie for several days at a time to fill that empty space in my life, I guess. In fact, I borrowed her last Friday and kept her until Wednesday. I can't imagine not being able to cuddle with her for fear of contracting a fatal virus.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Sun Feb 16, 2020 - 12:36:27
If not, why not?

Coronavirus: Pangolins may have spread the disease to humans

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronavirus-pangolins-may-have-spread-the-disease-to-humans
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Feb 16, 2020 - 19:31:39
Sen. Cotton was interviewed on FNC Sunday morning.  He said it's certain the virus did not originate at the wet market, even though that market may have contributed to its spread.  He hinted it may have come from the nearby virus research lab, but did not come right out and say it.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 12:22:32
Start prepping .China who are East Asians have one of the highest IQs in the world, and then they shuts down there economy . Welding up doors in apartments and have released internet control police to say nothing wrong here. Worry a lot. The Lord told me this is his plan ? and I am going to see some horrible things. Japan held a controlled ship of 3000 and then 600 got infected . Good on keeping them indoors. Doesn't work.  Chinese doctors who have full suits get infected. South Korea church gets infected. Jesus not saving now. It’s his plan He has told me this now twice .

Corona virus has a crown and has a bow. International travel. Plaque is one of the horse man ...not sure about that...but yes I have been buying food for 7 weeks and then I look and it’s not enough. China is welding doors shut and stopping travel. When do each firm stop working because they can’t get parts anymore for there machines.society collapses. People,starve.  Its big guys and girls my brothers and sisters in the Lord. Buy Food water and stuff to keep you safe or hunt for food. The Lord told me it’s started . What’s is that?  When he speaks like this ....then I just started to buy food and other crazy stuff . I don’t really know my brothers and sisters. The Lord speaks to us when we need to harvest for the lean years. Prep now my brothers and sisters in the Lord . We will meet again. I love you all. If it’s fake news . You just eat it tomorrow. Big bags of rice and sauce mixes.peace out


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 16:44:30
Add this to the thoughts and the conspiracy theories.....

I see this as a prophesied plague, with mans involvement.

http://82.221.129.208/.vs0.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Feb 23, 2020 - 02:54:08
On The most probable on how it started and why.

https://youtu.be/lxEFL5KC9Xc
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 00:28:38
Roylab Stats

https://youtu.be/qgylp3Td1Bw

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 04:38:10
I lean away from Dispensational Eschatology, so I don't see it as a "prophesied" plague.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 04:41:01
...
They did say the best defense against this is a strong immune system. I'm not freaking out about this virus at all, but I am working on building my immune system and encouraging family members to do the same.

Plenty of rest
Less stress
Sunshine if possible
Fresh air
Gentle exercise
No sugar
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3 and K2
...


You might find some of the articles on this page (http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml) interesting.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 07:53:11
Start prepping .China who are East Asians have one of the highest IQs in the world, and then they shuts down there economy . Welding up doors in apartments and have released internet control police to say nothing wrong here. Worry a lot. The Lord told me this is his plan ? and I am going to see some horrible things. Japan held a controlled ship of 3000 and then 600 got infected . Good on keeping them indoors. Doesn't work.  Chinese doctors who have full suits get infected. South Korea church gets infected. Jesus not saving now. It’s his plan He has told me this now twice .

Corona virus has a crown and has a bow. International travel. Plaque is one of the horse man ...not sure about that...but yes I have been buying food for 7 weeks and then I look and it’s not enough. China is welding doors shut and stopping travel. When do each firm stop working because they can’t get parts anymore for there machines.society collapses. People,starve.  Its big guys and girls my brothers and sisters in the Lord. Buy Food water and stuff to keep you safe or hunt for food. The Lord told me it’s started . What’s is that?  When he speaks like this ....then I just started to buy food and other crazy stuff . I don’t really know my brothers and sisters. The Lord speaks to us when we need to harvest for the lean years. Prep now my brothers and sisters in the Lord . We will meet again. I love you all. If it’s fake news . You just eat it tomorrow. Big bags of rice and sauce mixes.peace out

Doesn't this go against Jesus warnings about not being concerned for tomorrow and trusting Him for each day?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:04:50
Doesn't this go against Jesus warnings about not being concerned for tomorrow and trusting Him for each day?
Did Jospeh prep. 7 full 7 lean. Trusting in him really,  is when we die we know we Will be with him and those whom Christ chose. That’s a given . So if we live for 70 years or die young ...it doesn’t  really matter. We all will die. But how we die is the key. Christians who trusted in him was feed to lions and burnt as candles on sticks covered in tar.

Maybe God is telling us to prep. Is not that action faith?

Love you my sister
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:10:30
Did Jospeh prep. 7 full 7 lean. Trusting in him really,  is when we die we know we Will be with him and those whom Christ chose. That’s a given . So if we live for 70 years or die young ...it doesn’t  really matter. We all will die. But how we die is the key. Christians who trusted in him was feed to lions and burnt as candles on sticks covered in tar.

Maybe God is telling us to prep. Is not that action faith?

Love you my sister

Do you think we may need to trust that he will protect us from this, as in psalm 91?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:17:05
If you spend the money today for food . You don’t have to spend it tomorrow. But at least you have it. Buy rice and sauces. China has been in lockdown for over a month. Italy now has armed police and army stopping people leaving towns.

Just a side note ...the super spreader in South Korea was a pastor in a church. If you think the pope is going to save you in this flesh body think again.

Peace out my so loved brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again if it blows over ...drink and eat the food tomorrow. The best before date is not the date you can’t eat it. It can be eaten years  beyond that. Use water as washing.

Prepping means .....you don’t have to go out in the storm of people ...who are emptying the shelves. Thus then , you don’t bring what out there , into your home. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:22:56
Yep that’s all good . And maybe flour will appear in your jar and your sandals won’t wear out. Long term lock down as in China. People now starving. Yes Christians and non Christians both stave to death.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:30:23
Do you think we may need to trust that he will protect us from this, as in psalm 91?
yep that is all good. BUT Faith without action is dead. Maybe your flour jay will never run out nor your sandals wear out. Throughout history Christians have been used as candles covered in tar and have been ripped apart by lions. Resurrection is the promise even if we are in the valley of death ...we will all die someday. South Korea has been affected largely by a Christian group who gathered together to pray and read the word of the Lord.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:32:10
Do you think we may need to trust that he will protect us from this, as in psalm 91?
yep that is all good. BUT Faith without action is dead. Maybe your flour jay will never run out nor your sandals wear out. Throughout history Christians have been used as candles covered in tar and have been ripped apart by lions. Resurrection is the promise even if we are in the valley of death ...we will all die someday. South Korea has been affected largely by a Christian group who gathered together to pray and read the word of the Lord.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:43:37
Cant get any p95 nor p2 masks ? Not that they really helps once you are covered head to toe in the virus. No wonder China are fogging there cities with trucks that spray. Ok now animals dieing  Key .....don’t go out. Eat in. 85% of all pharmaceuticals come from China. Eggs in one basket.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 11:47:28
So go to your doctor and get new prescription and repeats on your meds.love you all Mark
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 12:20:44
A old English doctor  Dr. John Campbell . who just makes it easy to understand. Breaks down medical terms , names  and explains numbers so we get it without the fluff

https://youtu.be/1C-NpadSNuA
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 14:36:03
You might find some of the articles on this page ([url]http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/index.shtml[/url]) interesting.


Thanks, NorrinRadd!

Now I just need to learn to give myself an IV so I can mainline vitamin C.  I do know of a couple of dentists in town that give vit C by IV before and after major dental procedures - claiming it helps dramatically with healing and fighting possible infections.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 15:08:54
Cant get any p95 nor p2 masks ? Not that they really helps once you are covered head to toe in the virus. No wonder China are fogging there cities with trucks that spray. Ok now animals dieing  Key .....don’t go out. Eat in. 85% of all pharmaceuticals come from China. Eggs in one basket.

Eat in is good. Should do that anyway. But shall we all stay home. Even from work?

Market is already tanking...... claiming Corona reasons... tis well could put the world in a wordl wide depression. Then what?

You started your veggie a garden yet?  Takes time  to grow. Remember, dont use any but rain water and don't drink any water unless from a deep well or sky.... it is easily contaminated.

As to the masks. I have some. Every trip to the doc I take one as well as every trip to hospital for blood.

Might order another supply of emergency food to add to my stash....

Or the easy thing is just live you life and if it happens and you die from it....

BTW WHAT EXACTLY IS THE MORTALITY RATE FROM THIS?

If you die... just know something has to take you out.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 17:51:00
Eat in is good. Should do that anyway. But shall we all stay home. Even from work?

Market is already tanking...... claiming Corona reasons... tis well could put the world in a wordl wide depression. Then what?

You started your veggie a garden yet?  Takes time  to grow. Remember, dont use any but rain water and don't drink any water unless from a deep well or sky.... it is easily contaminated.

As to the masks. I have some. Every trip to the doc I take one as well as every trip to hospital for blood.

Might order another supply of emergency food to add to my stash....

Or the easy thing is just live you life and if it happens and you die from it....

BTW WHAT EXACTLY IS THE MORTALITY RATE FROM THIS?

If you die... just know something has to take you out.

Yeah, frankly I'm not thrilled with life anyway.  As long as they give me enough drugs to keep me fairly comfortable or unconscious, and someone agrees to take care of my cats, I don't care if I die.

Last I heard, mortality rate is one in fifty.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 17:53:47
Our markets Haven't tanked but they did lower a bit.  I got a sweet refi out of temporarily lowered interest rates on mortgages.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 17:55:08
Thanks, NorrinRadd!

Now I just need to learn to give myself an IV so I can mainline vitamin C.  I do know of a couple of dentists in town that give vit C by IV before and after major dental procedures - claiming it helps dramatically with healing and fighting possible infections.

Really???  That's very cool!  I have no clue where I could get that done.

I've read instructions on preparing IV ascorbate, but my recollection is that they were for medical professionals, not for regular people.  (I'm pretty sure they use a buffered version like sodium ascorbate, not regular ascorbic acid.)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 18:42:07
If you spend the money today for food . You don’t have to spend it tomorrow. But at least you have it. Buy rice and sauces. China has been in lockdown for over a month. Italy now has armed police and army stopping people leaving towns.

Just a side note ...the super spreader in South Korea was a pastor in a church. If you think the pope is going to save you in this flesh body think again.

Peace out my so loved brothers and sisters in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again if it blows over ...drink and eat the food tomorrow. The best before date is not the date you can’t eat it. It can be eaten years  beyond that. Use water as washing.

Prepping means .....you don’t have to go out in the storm of people ...who are emptying the shelves. Thus then , you don’t bring what out there , into your home.

I just wonder, if we all start panic buying then how are we any different from non believers? Aren't we told not to fear? Fear and panic buying is damaging in itself and will cause mass shortages. 
When you think of how many hundreds of thousands of people die of the flu each year, it never stops us going out and acting normally. Yes I know the death rate is bigger with this, its thought 2%, but its still almost all the very elderly and very sick who are dying. For most its a fairly mild illness.

Generally, face masks are thought to help stop you passing on what you have to others, but fairly useless to avoid catching anything.  Would not wear one myself.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 07:16:56
Removed by poster
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 11:57:33
I just wonder, if we all start panic buying then how are we any different from non believers? Aren't we told not to fear? Fear and panic buying is damaging in itself and will cause mass shortages. 


Shaming other Christians who are preparing for a coming health pandemic is pretty low. Bemark is just gathering things to care for himself and his family if things get out of hand.

When an ice storm is headed my way, I go to the store to stock up on things to get through the next few days. It has nothing to do with lack of faith. It keeps me and family members off the dangerous streets when the ice hits.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 13:21:10
Shaming other Christians who are preparing for a coming health pandemic is pretty low. Bemark is just gathering things to care for himself and his family if things get out of hand.

When an ice storm is headed my way, I go to the store to stock up on things to get through the next few days. It has nothing to do with lack of faith. It keeps me and family members off the dangerous streets when the ice hits.

Yes, you are right.

I made light of a potentially serious situation .  Ill remove it....

If more people thought... especially those that feel ill... then they would stay home and away from others and less would be spread.

Same holds for things like the flu. Stay home...
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 13:27:05
But what I ave not heard.

Other then those masks that can be worn, what else can one do if one does have to be out?

They show them spraying large areas in parts of China and other countries....WHAT are they spraying?

Has anyone suggested the incubation period other then those on cruise ships and places being held for 14 days?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 15:08:06
So in what way should we act differently as believers from those who don't know God in such situations. God says do not fear, do not be afraid, trust Him, that He will provide, don't worry about tomorrow. 
How can we act differently from those who may worry and be afraid? For whom what is reported in the papers and media may make them panic?
Is He our rock and anchor in the storms of life? BTW I am talking to myself as much as anyone else here. I want to lean on Him and stay in peace, not always easy I know but surely that is our aim?.

BTW I know of no one who is panic buying, Christian or otherwise.   
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 15:32:23
But what I ave not heard.

Other then those masks that can be worn, what else can one do if one does have to be out?

They show them spraying large areas in parts of China and other countries....WHAT are they spraying?

Has anyone suggested the incubation period other then those on cruise ships and places being held for 14 days?

On another site, a poster posted at least a half-dozen assertions about various different aspects -- mortality, infectiousness, how long it lingers on surfaces, accuracy of tests, and more.  He didn't give any sources.  I complained.  He rather huffily supplied links to a bunch of different articles, and pretty much said I should have been willing to do the research myself.  Kook.

Anyway, the gist was that the official CDC statements are too sanguine.  But really, there is no way to know.  We can't trust anything China says (despite what Smiling Fauci from the CDC asserts), so we basically have to get more reliable data from the cases in elsewhere, which will take some months.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 16:09:31


Anyway, the gist was that the official CDC statements are too sanguine.  But really, there is no way to know.  We can't trust anything China says (despite what Smiling Fauci from the CDC asserts), so we basically have to get more reliable data from the cases in elsewhere, which will take some months.
NorrinRadd, I listened to some of Scott Adams' periscope this morning where he brought up an interesting point. He said the mortality rates seem to be much higher when reported from countries that we can trust the least - China, Iran. OTOH, from the countries that we can (hopefully) trust more to report accurate stats, the mortality rate appears to be lower. Don't know if that means anything or not, just an interesting observation.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 16:31:08
So in what way should we act differently as believers from those who don't know God in such situations. God says do not fear, do not be afraid, trust Him, that He will provide, don't worry about tomorrow. 
How can we act differently from those who may worry and be afraid? For whom what is reported in the papers and media may make them panic?
Is He our rock and anchor in the storms of life? BTW I am talking to myself as much as anyone else here. I want to lean on Him and stay in peace, not always easy I know but surely that is our aim?.

BTW I know of no one who is panic buying, Christian or otherwise.

I don't know of anyone here who is in a panic over it. Good grief.
Being prepared does not equate to living in fear.
Like I said, I go to the grocery store before an ice storm - not because I have a lack of faith, but because it's the smart thing to do. So the next time an ice storm is in the forecast, I guess I should just sit here on my butt and claim God will provide and I'm not going to worry about basic necessities before it hits.
You need to cool it on your virtue signaling, chosen. It's not right to shame Christians for trying to protect their loved ones during a pandemic.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 18:26:40
On another site, a poster posted at least a half-dozen assertions about various different aspects -- mortality, infectiousness, how long it lingers on surfaces, accuracy of tests, and more.  He didn't give any sources.  I complained.  He rather huffily supplied links to a bunch of different articles, and pretty much said I should have been willing to do the research myself.  Kook.

Anyway, the gist was that the official CDC statements are too sanguine.  But really, there is no way to know.  We can't trust anything China says (despite what Smiling Fauci from the CDC asserts), so we basically have to get more reliable data from the cases in elsewhere, which will take some months.

Yes, and as with any illness like this it will be very different in whoever catches it. Some will have it mildly and briefly and some wont. The usual advise to wash hands well and not cough and sneeze all over people seems sensible. In the UK the general advise to self isolate for 2 weeks may help slow the spread. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 19:46:31
Well, now this comes out-

https://twitter.com/tiarrabanks1/status/1232447576302993408
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 20:49:34
Well, now this comes out-

https://twitter.com/tiarrabanks1/status/1232447576302993408

And Chelsea Clinton is on record as to blaming Trump for this in the US. Her qualifications....

 Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health

Chelsea Clinton
Adjunct Assistant Professor
Health Policy and Management

https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/people/our-faculty/cc3459

I see a trend.

Wonder why those who are now blaming Trump, and there have been many, have not offered a suggestion for a solution for this pandemic they are certain is coming our way???
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 01:06:25
In some countries there has already been mass panicking and shops selling out. It wont take much for it to happen anywhere else. If some buy too much, others (usually those who cant afford to buy more than they need at any one time, the poor, the elderly, those who have no transport etc), will suffer and go without.
Keep your eyes on God people. He is our rock and provider.


Here is Gods love in action. https://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-sharing-love-of-jesus-in-coronavirus-hot-zone-death-toll-rise-to-724.html

Love to you my brother Bemark, I have known you here for about 13 years, and I Know you are His through and through:-) God bless.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 08:45:17
Cant get any p95 nor p2 masks ? Not that they really helps once you are covered head to toe in the virus. No wonder China are fogging there cities with trucks that spray. Ok now animals dieing  Key .....don’t go out. Eat in. 85% of all pharmaceuticals come from China. Eggs in one basket.

You bring up a good point on how we are too dependent on China for our pharmaceuticals. We let our sworn enemies make our meds. How stupid is that?
+1 Bemark!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Feb 26, 2020 - 08:48:43
From what I have been reading, the fatality rate is something like 2%.  It is gonna kill off mostly the elderly and infirm, like most viruses.

The pandemic theory is a huge joke.  There is something more behind this.  At the minimum it is just media sensationalism.  At the worst, it is potential sabotage on markets, or cover up for crimes committed by China against its own citizenry.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 13:32:35
For whatever reason, the more the left and MSM fan the flames of politics over this virus, the less and less concerned I am over it.
I'm at the point of not worrying a bit about it.

Maybe it's because for four years, they've blamed everything on Trump, made up lies and hoaxes, etc. Maybe I'm just numb to anything the Chicken Littles say or do now. They've cried wolf so many times, I now wouldn't know if they were telling the truth or not. Honestly, I don't think any of them know the truth about this virus - but are using it as a political weapon.

Of course, I could be wrong, but I'm just thinking that if it does start spreading across the US, it will be no more deadly than the regular flu bug.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Feb 27, 2020 - 14:42:55
See??

AP fact checking says Democrats are lying about President Trump cutting funding and personnel needed to fight coronavirus -

https://apnews.com/d36d6c4de29f4d04beda3db00cb46104

Trying to spread fear, panic, and make political points during a possible pandemic... smh.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Feb 28, 2020 - 13:52:52
From what I have been reading, the fatality rate is something like 2%.  It is gonna kill off mostly the elderly and infirm, like most viruses.

The pandemic theory is a huge joke.  There is something more behind this.  At the minimum it is just media sensationalism.  At the worst, it is potential sabotage on markets, or cover up for crimes committed by China against its own citizenry.
It's going to be an epidemic in many countries around the world.  If you live in a hot dry climate with first world medicine, there probably isn't much to worry about.  We've been worried about it in my family because my wife has family in Asia.

Mortality rate is about 2%.  For comparison the Spanish Influenza at the beginning of the 20th century had about 4% mortality.  I spoke to a doctor friend, and this is basically going to be a worse-than-usual flu that goes around, but we can't vaccinate against it yet.

Jarrod
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: RB on Sat Feb 29, 2020 - 03:55:10
I have a grandson that finished Clemson and is now starting at Emory University getting his doctorate degree in DISEASES~he's at our house now helping with Taylor who is dying with cancer~ He told us that DCC (DISEASE CONTROL CENTER where he will be the next four years) is telling everyone IN ATLANTA to be very careful since Atlanta is the largest airport hub in America~but he also said the chance of getting this disease (Coronavirus) would be mathematical extremely rare. Which I agree~if you are close to my age, then a heart attack would be much greater odds than catching the Coronavirus, maybe a virus, but not that one. God's people should never live in fear concerning such things, wise, YES~ fear? No.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Sat Feb 29, 2020 - 06:01:00
I have a grandson that finished Clemson and is now starting at Emory University getting his doctorate degree in DISEASES~he's at our house now helping with Taylor who is dying with cancer~ He told us that DCC (DISEASE CONTROL CENTER where he will be the next four years) is telling everyone IN ATLANTA to be very careful since Atlanta is the largest airport hub in America~but he also said the chance of getting this disease (Coronavirus) would be mathematical extremely rare. Which I agree~if you are close to my age, then a heart attack would be much greater odds than catching the Coronavirus, maybe a virus, but not that one. God's people should never live in fear concerning such things, wise, YES~ fear? No.

I agree. Far better to believe Gods words and not be in fear, than read loads of stuff on social media and the press and let the fear drag you down. 

I am so sorry about your grandson BTW Red. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 01, 2020 - 23:51:15
If you can deal with the odd case here and there then maybe it will work out alright. But let’s look at some numbers and not China’s because most people don’t believe them.

South Korea Cases 4212. Deaths 26  recovered. 31

Italy Cases 1701. Deaths 41  recovered.  83

The cases are the number that they have only tested for .....but who knows the out come from those cases. So far we know that South Korea has 4212 cases and out of those cases we know that 26 have died and only 31 has recovered. So we are still awaiting the out come for the remainder 4150 odd.

Let’s look at that horriable cruise ship experiment. About 3000 was on board . They put them in isolation and the numbers kept rising . So when it got to be about 600 or more they let them off that ship. If they stayed on that ship how high could have been  affected ? But we know that from those lab rats 705 are cases and out of those cases we have a mere 16 outcomes. 6 dead and 10 recovered.

Who do we believe Chinas numbers or South Korea , Italy and the cruise ship from hell?

Remember China has gone into lock down over a common cold . Really?

Have a look at   https://youtu.be/Sn_ij8lRKnE

Let’s stay informed
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 02:41:12
USA 89 cases. And out of those cases 2 have died and 9 has recovered.

Because this really is in the early stages , they say it is like looking at the tip of a ice burg.  They believe that the virus has been lurking around for a few weeks now affecting a whole lot more people.

So don’t be surprised to see sudden jumps as in South Korea and Italy . I hope not , i really do.

I heard the UK had only 15 -18 negative displacement rooms to deal with these type of things. Look people.....the useless WHO and all government departments have been playing this down to CREATE TIME  before the general population goes into panic mode. TIME they need to organize what ever they have to do to control the masses. They all should have shut down there boulders and stopped people leaving and coming in.

They reckon in the next 1-2:years 30-70% of the world will be affected by this...you can’t out run it, nor hide from it. Just get some beans and extra rice and water , so you don’t get caught up in the storm of people who are panic buying. The WINDOW OF TIME  for this has nearly shut because the word is getting out there. The Lord said he will direct our paths . That’s us walking forwards not staying still , do you think mana is going to rain out from heaven when our cupboards get empty. Don’t buy n95 nor p2 masks . Unless you can duct tape them to your face  to create a perfect seal they are worthless. So start shaving off your beards now. They are meant for people who could be sick form spreading it. Do some research from many places so it’s balanced and then make up your mind. The Lord gives us peace in this ...he does. What a TIME to spread the word . Days like this,  people are open to receiving the Lord. Israel turned back to God in TIMES like this.  He is the prince of peace.   
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 02:44:27
South Korea now 4335 cases. -16:17 min to next update. Italy 1701 cases -8:17 to next update.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 02:52:37
Look and you really also have to consider this as well. Its When,  not if ....our medical staff and law enforcement  become overwhelmed with this ....then other emergencies don't even get looked at. No medicines or lack of them ...you just have to be real about this. Most companies and countries are running on mere minimum resources in regards to staff and equipment. They are stretched out thin now. When you start to see this , then you can plan , you become focused. So you don’t panic. Peace out
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 04:26:51
I now know  the door in the spirit realm it’s ... TIME....Research all scriptures about time and start praying them . Its now.

For example

 2 Corinthians 6:2
New King James Version
For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 04:34:15
Psalm 118:24 New King James Version (NKJV)

24 This is THE DAY the Lord has made;
We will rejoice and be glad in it.

Its not the day before , nor the days ahead .....but TODAY  ...right now ....with him

Sink into him and rejoice in the Lord Always. I love the word of the Lord. But also buy rice :)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 04:46:03
Johns-Hopkins Covid-19 Tracker page (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0ObSGTQjQaXI7Td7qdi3spFacHpkWZOk_o7e3sW8CaAXi6JxzCGHljmA8#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6).
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 05:19:20
Nice mate. Just to let people know because I didn’t. ....The Others ....was that 3000 cruise ship docked in the ports of Japan. Lab rats 600 plus and kept growing. Now 705 about
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 05:32:15
Also my brother a good one is Roylab stats has a live feed where you get posts from people all over the globe. Ok some are troll. But not all. The most up to date thatnI know off , with all countries listed. Why for Gods sake haven’t all countries gone into lock down? Probably , ...when we all are infected global trade resumes as normal. No ones going to lose money in China now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 05:39:32
Arthur Schopenhauer

All truth passes through 3 stages.

First it is ridiculed
Second , it is violently opposed.
Third it is accepted as being self- evident
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 06:04:10
34,200 deaths from regular flu in 2018,19 flu season.  Right here in the US and A.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Buy your rice indeed.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 06:51:06
Johns-Hopkins Covid-19 Tracker page (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0ObSGTQjQaXI7Td7qdi3spFacHpkWZOk_o7e3sW8CaAXi6JxzCGHljmA8#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6).

This does not cover the 2 deaths in the US that were announced this AM
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 06:56:36
34,200 deaths from regular flu in 2018,19 flu season.  Right here in the US and A.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Buy your rice indeed.

Of course, many more cases of the flu are reported in a season then we hear of with covid19

Of the 34,000 deaths I wonder how many would have been prevented had they simply gotten the flu shot, instead of feeling they wee tough enough to withstand being sick or they had an aversion to inoculations.

Same will be said if they do get a covid19 inoculation . There will be those who will just tough it out. And die?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 07:19:28
This does not cover the 2 deaths in the US that were announced this AM

This site (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) may be a bit more current.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 08:08:34
Of course, many more cases of the flu are reported in a season then we hear of with covid19

Of the 34,000 deaths I wonder how many would have been prevented had they simply gotten the flu shot, instead of feeling they wee tough enough to withstand being sick or they had an aversion to inoculations.

Same will be said if they do get a covid19 inoculation . There will be those who will just tough it out. And die?

The vast majority were 65+. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 08:49:41
The vast majority were 65+.

A couple of days ago, I had some man trying to argue with me on twitter, saying his parents "ARE IN THEIR 80S AND THIS VIRUS CAN BE DEADLY FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR 80s!!"

My own parents are in their 80s. My mom is just getting over pneumonia WHICH CAN BE DEADLY FOR PEOPLE IN THEIR 80s! The older we get, the more likely it is that disease can be fatal. I love my parents to pieces, but this is just a fact of life. Even for myself - a bad case of the flu has the potential of turning south on me more than when I was in my 20s.
IDK, maybe I'm a bit fatalistic about the corona. Something is going to get us sooner or later. Disease and death will visit all of us. No one escapes it. Flu bugs and all kinds of disease wash over the globe like a big wave - in cycles. Sometimes we survive it - other times we don't. Just make the best you can of every day since tomorrow is never promised.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 09:02:31
My youngest daughter just now sent a text to me saying she had just received an email from work saying "many" in her work area have been diagnosed with Type A in the last few days, so double down on precautions.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 09:43:15
Over 34k deaths from regular flu in the most developed country on Earth. 

Coronavirus is media hysteria and fodder for Chicken Littles.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 10:07:03
Mommydi. Lock down my sister.....lock down ....I know you have received good words from brothers and sisters in the Lord. Lock down and get your grub. You can only do so much based upon money and how you are needed in the community.

I am ok to die ........I really am. But maybe i need to be alive to reach the masses. Spread the good news. So the Lord will spare me.

Look people ....no matter what there is a time to speak the word . Its now. Love you all.

Look please no matter what we say it dosent matter.   We just are putting it out there for our brothers and sisters in the Lord. We need this space to be free
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 10:09:55
My eyes are not good today so I’m printing and I’m thinking it’s ok. Forgive me when I don’t get it right. Also my English is shocking. Sorry my friends and others who struggle with my posts. Especially now. Get the hint I say . Sorry
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 10:19:51
The who has been lying from day one. Look at peoples hands and gulping off the neck......why do politicians clasp there  hands?

Don’t believe them ......they are lying . They are. Get food and water. Drink and eat it
 tomorrow


Closing thoughts. But consumes my mind

WHY WOULD CHINA SHUT DOWN ITS ENTIRE ECONOMY OVER  A COMMON COLD.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 10:46:12
The WHO has been lying so it can allow countries more TIME ..I get that . I really do. Stop the panic . they now  the games up . Still rolling the dice for other players. If one sits at the table they are going to play . I’m not playin there games. Nope not now. Being looking at this for about 6 -7:weeks and it’s all bad.
I don’t really care if I live or die. Maybe I want it over. No I want to retire and get my camper van and tour the country over a year or 2  But I also don’t want to die so my natural instincts overtake my mind .but then the spirit has spoken . I have heard the Lords voice. It’s his plan . This upsets  me
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 10:56:37
Over 34k deaths from regular flu in the most developed country on Earth. 

Coronavirus is media hysteria and fodder for Chicken Littles.
hi buddy. Why then if it’s hysteria why has  China locked down its manufacturing. Got the peasant to return then sent them home again. This is not blah blah blah . Hoping for a great outcome while China is shutting down there economy is sticking your finger in the air that eventually kills you and those whom follow your voice.

 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 10:59:54
Let’s make this into real time

WHAT WE POST HERE WILL BE LIFE AND DEATH FOR THOSE WHO TAKE OUR WORD AS THE REMA WORD OF GOD.

ITS THE WORD BUT IS IT in season?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 11:55:50
hi buddy. Why then if it’s hysteria why has  China locked down its manufacturing. Got the peasant to return then sent them home again. This is not blah blah blah . Hoping for a great outcome while China is shutting down there economy is sticking your finger in the air that eventually kills you and those whom follow your voice.

 

How do you know it has anything to do with Coronavirus?  Perhaps Coronavirus is a much needed mask for other deeds China is doing.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 13:23:40
This morning, I went to coffee with my best friend. Her son-in-law was raised in China (his parents were missionaries). He knows the culture, language, people better than anyone I know. He still has all kinds of connections there. Yesterday, he started stocking up on basic necessities. (He's never been one to overreact about a thing) She asked him, "Is this really necessary?" He said yes.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 14:23:33
Mommydi. Lock down my sister.....lock down ....I know you have received good words from brothers and sisters in the Lord. Lock down and get your grub. You can only do so much based upon money and how you are needed in the community.

I am ok to die ........I really am. But maybe i need to be alive to reach the masses. Spread the good news. So the Lord will spare me.

Look people ....no matter what there is a time to speak the word . Its now. Love you all.

Look please no matter what we say it dosent matter.   We just are putting it out there for our brothers and sisters in the Lord. We need this space to be free

Bemark,

We all hear you with your lock down warning.And for many areas it may be good advice.

But for how long are we to remain  locked down? How soon before things like milk have to be replaced.

One can live on rice,but for 3 meals a day?

One can bake bread,but again can you live on it for 3 meals a day, especially if there is no butter?

Pastas need something to make them palatable ,and cereal needs milk.

This virus is not going to be over and done for in a mere week or two. It will take months into a year to get meds and innoculations that work.

NO one can lock down that long.

But you can prepare for your outings...

Today I bought a small box of surgical gloves from the drug store. When I go shopping I can put them on
when entering a store and when leaving I can toss them in the first available trash container.

They say that masks will not protect you from getting it but will protect others from you spreading it.
So I can wear a mask... not to protect others but to keep myself from touching my mouth or nose.
And will be a reminder to not touch my eyes.

Disinfectant wipes and sprays can be kept in the car so one can wipe down or spray their clothing frequently. If a week or two...or even  a month, it would be different... but not indefinitely.

It is just impractical tolock down at this point.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 14:30:02
has reached 6.

Correction:

That is 4 more then was announced this AM. All 6 are in Washington State.

There now are 80 covid 19 cases in 10 states.

POTUS met with drug companies today asking them to speed up vaccine.

There is one that is not tested yet and the man on TV says it will be a year to 18 months before
there will be an approved one.

SMH... we all may be dead before there is one.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 19:53:29
How do you know it has anything to do with Coronavirus?  Perhaps Coronavirus is a much needed mask for other deeds China is doing.
well if you want to go down that rabbit hole. A bio lab that studies the like of corona virus was experimenting on animals. Then some one did something. They sold those infected animals to that wet market where people ate them. Yes my friend China is hiding something alright. Them hiding the facts has led us in the place we are right now.it was about 35 km from the wet market. My figures might be a bit wrong because this stuff has been coming out for about under 2 mths now. But like a spider web it’s starting to take form. It is corona virus, but they have been messing with it . Bio weapons maybe. Reports say China stole it from a Canadian place that deals with toxic problems to find cures.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 20:05:55
Bemark,

We all hear you with your lock down warning.And for many areas it may be good advice.

But for how long are we to remain  locked down? How soon before things like milk have to be replaced.

One can live on rice,but for 3 meals a day?

One can bake bread,but again can you live on it for 3 meals a day, especially if there is no butter?

Pastas need something to make them palatable ,and cereal needs milk.

This virus is not going to be over and done for in a mere week or two. It will take months into a year to get meds and innoculations that work.

NO one can lock down that long.

But you can prepare for your outings...

Today I bought a small box of surgical gloves from the drug store. When I go shopping I can put them on
when entering a store and when leaving I can toss them in the first available trash container.

They say that masks will not protect you from getting it but will protect others from you spreading it.
So I can wear a mask... not to protect others but to keep myself from touching my mouth or nose.
And will be a reminder to not touch my eyes.

Disinfectant wipes and sprays can be kept in the car so one can wipe down or spray their clothing frequently. If a week or two...or even  a month, it would be different... but not indefinitely.

It is just impractical tolock down at this point.
i know it seems pointless to prolong what’s going to happen anyway. The lock down is so hopefully you don’t get caught up in the initial  panic. Look at what happened to New Orleans only after 3 days.

You don’t want to go out in the storm.

Maybe when it all comes down to it. We can share the food that we have with others and talk to them about Jesus Christ. This is a opportunity of a LIFE TIME . We have been fishing all night and Jesus says throw out the net one more TIME.

Look after those whom you know to have not a lot of cash. Buy extra food for them now. Share the love of Jesus . This is OUR TIME  my brothers and sisters in the Lord to Shine the light within. Lay hands upon the sick and maybe God will raise them up again. The lord moves IN TIMES like this. Where does our help come from. And When we see others fall sick and die , we have to remember that God loves us , and for those who have accepted him ......they are in heaven with him waiting for us to show up. Is not the Lord good and his mercy endures forever.

Most Philippians live on 1 meal of rice a day if they are lucky. They buy sardines when they can to add to that rice. This is there everyday life.

 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 20:14:50
Well the lock down to to lessen the Ro number . The Ro number is the rate of infection. If it was R1 that means 1 person on average affects 1 person. If it was R7 then 1 person on average would affect 7 people. So they lock us up . Weld up the doors and put stickers over doors to see if you go out. If you keep going out they cart you away. I get why they have to do this.

Some reported figures was when it was popping like corn the Ro was 7.

Isolation brings the Ro number down. You need food water for this time. When you can buy food and water buy it. If they shut your doors or lock down your city . How long . China’s been in lock down for over a month in some places. You can live for 3 mths without food ....not water 3 days. Just saying so you get it in order. Fill every kettle and pan if you are upset. Empty and refill them each day and also run the Tap first before emptying to make sure it’s still there. You can do this cheap. Buy rice and put back the coffee and biscuits.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 20:24:20
If you have money and are prepared or going to be ....buy some extras and drop them off to people you know are in need . Let’s look after each other. Gift to each other plastic containers filled with stuff. If you are in a church then donate stuff. Those whom don’t have can get.  This is a PERFECT TIME to share the good news.Faith with action


And if it’s a nothing burger . Then you will not have to buy food for a while. Money in the bank or money in your shelves. Its a no brainer really because people just don’t know what the outcome will be.

Better to be safe than be sorry.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 21:12:38
Having done all stand.

Now .....learn how to become focused . Panic is out there,    but focused is peace with in, while looking through a scope. We are saved no matter what happens....We have be born and RE BORN for a TIME like this.

Who can we reach ?
Who can we speak to ?

About our King Jesus Christ

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 21:26:52
How to walk through a door rather than break it down...

If you see someone who is in a state of panic,  like at a supermarket and has little in there trolley . Buy it for them.

 Heck , help them unload there trolley  and then unload all of your cart into the back of there car while downloading the gospel message .

This one act of kindness breaks down walls that  have been erected within . Become focused . Throw the net one more time.

John 4:35 New King James Version (NKJV)

35 Do you not say, ‘There are still four months and then comes the harvest’? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes and look at the fields, for they are already white for harvest!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 22:22:53
Take it from someone who is right in the middle of all this...you guys talk, argue and conspire too much.
Most of you behave like a bunch of drama-queens.
This is a disease, and like any other disease you do what you have to do to make it as comfortable as possible when it affects you.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 02, 2020 - 23:41:36
Ok we have emotions but also have facts.Once we get over emotions then we can focus. We need to focus

https://youtu.be/CNQB-Q67DpE

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 05:15:00
The WHO has been lying so it can allow countries more TIME ..I get that . I really do. Stop the panic . they now  the games up . Still rolling the dice for other players. If one sits at the table they are going to play . I’m not playin there games. Nope not now. Being looking at this for about 6 -7:weeks and it’s all bad.
I don’t really care if I live or die. Maybe I want it over. No I want to retire and get my camper van and tour the country over a year or 2  But I also don’t want to die so my natural instincts overtake my mind .but then the spirit has spoken . I have heard the Lords voice. It’s his plan . This upsets  me

Its hard to know why God would want this, but who am I to question Him.
Its certainly a test of our faith, what is it built on, sand or a rock.

Bemark where are you from?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: 4WD on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 05:47:48
Its hard to know why God would want this, but who am I to question Him.
I can't believe you seriously think God WANTS this.  What God wants and what God permits are two separate things entirely.  God doesn't want sin, but God permits sin.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 07:32:06
Take it from someone who is right in the middle of all this...you guys talk, argue and conspire too much.


So you're taking a moment to jump down from your high horse and join in all the talking and arguing.  ::sarcasm::

BTW, how do you know bemark isn't living right in the middle of all this more than you?






Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 09:16:14
The vast majority were 65+.

Well, on the bright side.... something has got to take us out.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 09:20:45
i know it seems pointless to prolong what’s going to happen anyway. The lock down is so hopefully you don’t get caught up in the initial  panic. Look at what happened to New Orleans only after 3 days.

You don’t want to go out in the storm.

Maybe when it all comes down to it. We can share the food that we have with others and talk to them about Jesus Christ. This is a opportunity of a LIFE TIME . We have been fishing all night and Jesus says throw out the net one more TIME.

Look after those whom you know to have not a lot of cash. Buy extra food for them now. Share the love of Jesus . This is OUR TIME  my brothers and sisters in the Lord to Shine the light within. Lay hands upon the sick and maybe God will raise them up again. The lord moves IN TIMES like this. Where does our help come from. And When we see others fall sick and die , we have to remember that God loves us , and for those who have accepted him ......they are in heaven with him waiting for us to show up. Is not the Lord good and his mercy endures forever.

Most Philippians live on 1 meal of rice a day if they are lucky. They buy sardines when they can to add to that rice. This is there everyday life.

 

It would not be the virus that got to me if I was on a Philippine diet it would be starvation.

I cannot stomach sardines or most fish... I throw up.

As to the dangers of this....

I bet those who died last night in the Nashville tornado would have rathered Covid 19 was the only worry they had.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 09:27:49
So you're taking a moment to jump down from your high horse and join in all the talking and arguing.  ::sarcasm::

BTW, how do you know bemark isn't living right in the middle of all this more than you?

I would like to know, as Chosen asked, where Bemark is.

I also would like to know why he is so panicked.  Was he this way back in the 80s when aids came into thing in a major way?

I absolutely believe without question that Covid 19 is a deliberate mistake gone wrong. I have my theories but now is not the time.

As to AVZ.... Just be safe.

I look forward to mixing it up with you from time to time and would miss that.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 10:37:41
I can't believe you seriously think God WANTS this.  What God wants and what God permits are two separate things entirely.  God doesn't want sin, but God permits sin.

I was replying to what bemark said.
' I have heard the Lords voice. It’s his plan '
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 12:57:48
I was replying to what bemark said.
' I have heard the Lords voice. It’s his plan '

What if it was not the Lord's voice that bemark heard?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 16:15:54

With the corona-virus on the horizon you can expect to get warnings like this, BUT this is for your own good...
 
 Helpful info about the corona-virus....  A friend who lives in Japan sent this information out.
 
 The new NCP coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days then how can one know if he/ she is infected ?

Latest information is that the incubation period may be up to 28 days before the symptoms of COVID 19 are evident.

 By the time a person has fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs are usually 50 % Fibrosis and it's too late !

Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning ; Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds.

If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness , etc , it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection. In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air!

 SERIOUS EXCELLENT ADVICE by Japanese doctors treating COVID-19 cases. Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist, never DRY.

 Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY ?

 Even if the virus does enter into your mouth...drinking water or other liquids will WASH them down through your oesophagus and into the stomach.

Once there , your stomach ACID’s will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly...the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS.

 That's very dangerous.

Pls send and share with family, friends and everyone about this !

Take care everyone & may the world recovers from corona virus soon.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 03, 2020 - 17:50:09
With the corona-virus on the horizon you can expect to get warnings like this, BUT this is for your own good...
 
 Helpful info about the corona-virus....  A friend who lives in Japan sent this information out.
 
 The new NCP coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days then how can one know if he/ she is infected ?

Latest information is that the incubation period may be up to 28 days before the symptoms of COVID 19 are evident.

 By the time a person has fever and/or cough and goes to the hospital, the lungs are usually 50 % Fibrosis and it's too late !

Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning ; Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds.

If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stuffiness or tightness , etc , it proves there is no fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicating no infection. In critical times, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air!

 SERIOUS EXCELLENT ADVICE by Japanese doctors treating COVID-19 cases. Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat is moist, never DRY.

 Take a few sips of water every 15 mins at least. WHY ?

 Even if the virus does enter into your mouth...drinking water or other liquids will WASH them down through your oesophagus and into the stomach.

Once there , your stomach ACID’s will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly...the virus can enter your windpipes and into the LUNGS.

 That's very dangerous.

Pls send and share with family, friends and everyone about this !

Take care everyone & may the world recovers from corona virus soon.

Sounds like a hoax email.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 07:35:55
What if it was not the Lord's voice that bemark heard?
I hope it wasn’t . Its very disturbing . I could list all the disasters throughout the Bible And say here and there from the flood and verses like this

I have found God speaks to me in a way that I don’t speak . It makes me think ...what have I heard? O I start to plonder  it. I don’t have rolling conversations with him. he just goes bam into my mind with quick words . or opens my eyes to see in the spirit. I must admit then I have to find some sense in it. Normally after days months years I see it unfold. Its not a open book to me  I just get enough to point me in a direction. As facts come out it becomes clearer. Also it’s not often .....but when he does speak or open my eyes I take note. I’m searching for answers then .i start to take notice of the news and what’s happening around me.

https://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

Yep I’m not happy with it . It doesn't give me much comfort. He speaks to me in a way That I can understand. Sharing it was not the wisest thing to do. I should have sat on it and put some better words around it . I was worried for you all. I have been speaking to work mates who just mocked me in the beginning. Not now because the media and people are panicking. 1 work mate who took my word has thanked me because he has been prepping for the last 4 weeks. Is family is ready. God didn’t plan to flood the world but he did plan it as well. He gave Noah the blueprint from heaven to build the ark. When he speaks to me he does it in a way that I get the seriousness of it. It is bigger that way.  I’m a bit shocked because I knew this was going to be something bigger. I knew it in my spirit man. That’s why I have been prepping. I’m in New Zealand . We have just had our 3rd case With reported Italians have been touring NZ. Came over from Italy one day before we shut the boarders accepting from people coming from there. Also we accept Lots of Chinese tourists. They have been traveling around NZ . It doesn't take long to go around NZ. I knew this and what I believe that God has told and showing me.. that’s why I came on here and was trying to warn you all. I have been following it and hearing the WHO and all government just allowing there boarders to remain open. Yes that has upset me . I have been seeing this with eyes open for a while.

Sorry if I have upset you. sorry the way I write as well.

Ok he message is stock up people . In wuhan they are starting to starve to death.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 07:51:57
Its not a theology message of Dotting my I and crossing my tees. The message that I believe God was impressing on me to you all was to stock up......just buy some extras like rice . It it goes into lockdown like China and some parts of Italy now. South Korea. You will be happier with extra food and water.

That’s all

Earnestly you’re brother in Christ

Mark
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 07:59:51
I’m not panicking by the way for myself. I have been focused for months . I am prepared. Probably like Noah felt as he was building the Ark while people mocked him

My panic is for everyone else who’s not listening. Then it started to rain.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 08:10:37
I hope it wasn’t . Its very disturbing . I could list all the disasters throughout the Bible And say here and there from the flood and verses like this

I have found God speaks to me in a way that I don’t speak . It makes me think ...what have I heard? O I start to plonder  it. I don’t have rolling conversations with him. he just goes bam into my mind with quick words . or opens my eyes to see in the spirit. I must admit then I have to find some sense in it. Normally after days months years I see it unfold. Its not a open book to me  I just get enough to point me in a direction. As facts come out it becomes clearer. Also it’s not often .....but when he does speak or open my eyes I take note. I’m searching for answers then .i start to take notice of the news and what’s happening around me.

https://biblehub.com/isaiah/45-7.htm

Yep I’m not happy with it . It doesn't give me much comfort. He speaks to me in a way That I can understand. Sharing it was not the wisest thing to do. I should have sat on it and put some better words around it . I was worried for you all. I have been speaking to work mates who just mocked me in the beginning. Not now because the media and people are panicking. 1 work mate who took my word has thanked me because he has been prepping for the last 4 weeks. Is family is ready. God didn’t plan to flood the world but he did plan it as well. He gave Noah the blueprint from heaven to build the ark. When he speaks to me he does it in a way that I get the seriousness of it. It is bigger that way.  I’m a bit shocked because I knew this was going to be something bigger. I knew it in my spirit man. That’s why I have been prepping. I’m in New Zealand . We have just had our 3rd case With reported Italians have been touring NZ. Came over from Italy one day before we shut the boarders accepting from people coming from there. Also we accept Lots of Chinese tourists. They have been traveling around NZ . It doesn't take long to go around NZ. I knew this and what I believe that God has told and showing me.. that’s why I came on here and was trying to warn you all. I have been following it and hearing the WHO and all government just allowing there boarders to remain open. Yes that has upset me . I have been seeing this with eyes open for a while.

Sorry if I have upset you. sorry the way I write as well.

Ok he message is stock up people . In wuhan they are starting to starve to death.

Thanks Bemark.
God does speak, I know that, we all need to do what we feel is best with what we hear.
I have found in the last week that saying psalm 91 has given me more peace than I had. In the end we are in His hands. The media do greatly ramp up the panic and that's wrong. Them going on and on about panic buying makes people panic buy. I have been to supermarkets in three different counties in the last 10 days due to travelling, and they all had full shelves except for hand sanitizer.

I haven't yet seen one person with a face mask nor anyone buying masses of stuff. We will see, but whatever happens, trusting God is paramount, He knows exactly what will happen. I think its a balance between trusting Him and being wise and sensible about hand washing, and maybe not going to places that will be very crowded. Shopping in the evening for example when its far quieter.

People here who have the illness or who have been in contact with someone who does, or who have been to one of the countries where its bad, are being encouraged to self isolate for 2 weeks. 

Just wondering how you know that people in wuhan are starving to death?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 08:24:09
Thanks Bemark.
God does speak, I know that, we all need to do what we feel is best with what we hear.
I have found in the last week that saying psalm 91 has given me more peace than I had. In the end we are in His hands. The media do greatly ramp up the panic and that's wrong. Them going on and on about panic buying makes people panic buy. I have been to supermarkets in three different counties in the last 10 days due to travelling, and they all had full shelves except for hand sanitizer.

I haven't yet seen one person with a face mask nor anyone buying masses of stuff. We will see, but whatever happens, trusting God is paramount, He knows exactly what will happen. I think its a balance between trusting Him and being wise and sensible about hand washing, and maybe not going to places that will be very crowded. Shopping in the evening for example when its far quieter.

People here who have the illness or who have been in contact with someone who does, or who have been to one of the countries where its bad, are being encouraged to self isolate for 2 weeks. 

Just wondering how you know that people in wuhan are starving to death?
stuff like this. This is disturbing . He told me I will see some disturbing things

https://youtu.be/7b4PUAlTs_4
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 08:29:54
I’m not panicking by the way for myself. I have been focused for months . I am prepared. Probably like Noah felt as he was building the Ark while people mocked him

My panic is for everyone else who’s not listening. Then it started to rain.

You are not your brothers keeper.

All you can do is tell others what you are doing for yourself and why.

I agree that extra rice, paste, and cereals are good to have on the shelf but you cannot stock milk for the long run.

Also, if we end in a lock down for months to a year, we will be in total collapse and ruin as not everyone will have the means to pay their bills so staying alive truly might become secondary to getting heat and electricity for lighting.

As to Noah.... he spread the word.... but God had different plans for the rest of mankind back then....

Now allow me to give you all a chuckle on this dour subject.

I live no where close to the virus that I have heard.

I went to the small groceryTuesday and they always have Purell pop up wipes by the shopping carts so I did pull one to wipe my hands as well as the cart handle well.

NO not cause of the coronavirus but because of colds and flu and stuff that you get in winter.

WE HAVE ALL HEARD  the precautions of washing hands, etc... AND not touch eyes, nose or mouth.

WE HAVE ALL HEARD masks will not protect us.... even though I have a stash to use in case it gets here.

So I grab hold of my sanitized cart by the handle and run into the store. I want a rotisserie chicken for dinner.

After shopping I rolled the cart to the cart return, grabbed my bag and walked out the door.

2 feet outside something was in my mouth. No idea what but without though I immediately had my fingers there to find out.

BTW Purell sanitizer does not taste good.

When I got to the car, I reminded myself of exactly why I bought those masks....

Not to protect me from the virus, or others from my germs.....

Simply to stop things like I had done without thinking ::tippinghat::



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 08:39:20
This was on Jan 28th

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12303761
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 08:46:58
You are not your brothers keeper.

All you can do is tell others what you are doing for yourself and why.

I agree that extra rice, paste, and cereals are good to have on the shelf but you cannot stock milk for the long run.

Also, if we end in a lock down for months to a year, we will be in total collapse and ruin as not everyone will have the means to pay their bills so staying alive truly might become secondary to getting heat and electricity for lighting.

As to Noah.... he spread the word.... but God had different plans for the rest of mankind back then....

Now allow me to give you all a chuckle on this dour subject.

I live no where close to the virus that I have heard.

I went to the small groceryTuesday and they always have Purell pop up wipes by the shopping carts so I did pull one to wipe my hands as well as the cart handle well.

NO not cause of the coronavirus but because of colds and flu and stuff that you get in winter.

WE HAVE ALL HEARD  the precautions of washing hands, etc... AND not touch eyes, nose or mouth.

WE HAVE ALL HEARD masks will not protect us.... even though I have a stash to use in case it gets here.

So I grab hold of my sanitized cart by the handle and run into the store. I want a rotisserie chicken for dinner.

After shopping I rolled the cart to the cart return, grabbed my bag and walked out the door.

2 feet outside something was in my mouth. No idea what but without though I immediately had my fingers there to find out.

BTW Purell sanitizer does not taste good.

When I got to the car, I reminded myself of exactly why I bought those masks....

Not to protect me from the virus, or others from my germs.....

Simply to stop things like I had done without thinking ::tippinghat::
As a intercessor within the Body . Its my Job.

Its so easy to touch your face. You clean your hands , forget and touch the shopping trolly. Clean trolly then clean hands again. Pick up fruit or package that some one has put back on shelf.  Wipe fruit or package and the cart handle again. Etc etc etc. place hands on counter . Wash hands with hand San again. Pin in number . Grab trolley. Darn wash hands again and trolly.

Its mindless . Also long shelf carton milk or milk powder .

Mark
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 10:52:52
As a intercessor within the Body . Its my Job.

Its so easy to touch your face. You clean your hands , forget and touch the shopping trolly. Clean trolly then clean hands again. Pick up fruit or package that some one has put back on shelf.  Wipe fruit or package and the cart handle again. Etc etc etc. place hands on counter . Wash hands with hand San again. Pin in number . Grab trolley. Darn wash hands again and trolly.

Its mindless . Also long shelf carton milk or milk powder .

Mark

Yes its amazing how many time we do actually touch our faces and how many times we do have to touch things that others have touched first. I have really noticed this recently. We don't have wipes by the trolleys here! That's why I think that we should do what we can to be sensible, at the same time asking God for His peace and also His protection as in psalm 91.
A person I know works at a university and his students are from all over the world. He is in the older age group as well with a heaalth condition.  All he can do is trust God and carry on living in that protection God promises and he doesn't worry. What is the alternative? 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 12:20:01
A moment of levity-

https://twitter.com/Graenni/status/1235565700967731203
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 14:34:36
Still not concerned.   ::tippinghat::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 16:27:02
This was on Jan 28th

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12303761

Yes, this is kind of disturbing.

But when I try to see the video I get....

This video is restricted from playing in your current geographic region

But consider this.

Look at the picture in your link.

Who took it?  Who was it given to?  Do you wonder why the people who are able to post this world wide
cannot get some food to this man?

There is obviously amiss.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 05, 2020 - 19:42:03
“Dr. Drew on Coronavirus: Hysterical ‘Press Needs to Shut Up….’”

Donb't Panic!

https://canadafreepress.com/article/dont-panic1
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 07:39:27
Question that I cannot find the answer to.

If someone is infected and they sneeze or even touch their nose or mouth and then an inaniate hard surface... such as a box of cereal in a grocery store....

HOW LONG does the virus live that one can contact it if the pick that item up?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 09:40:52
Question that I cannot find the answer to.

If someone is infected and they sneeze or even touch their nose or mouth and then an inaniate hard surface... such as a box of cereal in a grocery store....

HOW LONG does the virus live that one can contact it if the pick that item up?

I've read anywhere up to 9 days. Some people are wiping down packages and store items with disinfectant wipes. However, I've also read that the virus lives the longest on hard surfaces, such as glass, metal, and plastic. Experts say the virus has a difficult time surviving even 2 hours on paper products. So paper products, boxes, etc would be less likely to transfer the virus than touching something metal, plastic, or glass that's contaminated.

They're still saying the most common form of transmission is person to person - a person coughs or sneezes within a 6 foot radius, and you breathe the droplets, or the droplets land on your hands and you touch your face.
Apparently, as long as you keep a 6 ft radius with everyone - no matter if they're showing symptoms or not - and stop touching your face, your chances of getting the virus are extremely low.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 10:10:18
If this thing doesn't kill more people than the flu, no one will take such scares seriously again.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 10:47:33
I've read anywhere up to 9 days. Some people are wiping down packages and store items with disinfectant wipes. However, I've also read that the virus lives the longest on hard surfaces, such as glass, metal, and plastic. Experts say the virus has a difficult time surviving even 2 hours on paper products. So paper products, boxes, etc would be less likely to transfer the virus than touching something metal, plastic, or glass that's contaminated.

They're still saying the most common form of transmission is person to person - a person coughs or sneezes within a 6 foot radius, and you breathe the droplets, or the droplets land on your hands and you touch your face.
Apparently, as long as you keep a 6 ft radius with everyone - no matter if they're showing symptoms or not - and stop touching your face, your chances of getting the virus are extremely low.

That pretty well sums it up to staying at home.

You cannot do anything with that kind of distance.

Grocering you lass people in the aisles, not to mention the line up at the registers.

Doctoring you have people in close proximity in the waiting room.

Going to church, even... you are right next to people

You can pump your own gas using a credit card and be away from others...but then... those hard plastic handles of the gas pumps...  ??

Not... at least for me 6 feet away does not work ...not even drive through windows at fast food.

You get close enough to pay.

And to the democrats joy , I am sure, since this is more deadly for older people...those who are more inclined to be conservative... we will need to all vote absentee cause even the voting machines are closer then 6'...and hard surfaces.... not even mentioning the lines.

Nope... isolation is our only hope.  ::whistle:: ::whistle::



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 10:52:08
If this thing doesn't kill more people than the flu, no one will take such scares seriously again.

Swine flu did not scare me at all.

But this is different. I have my ears and eyes open on this one. Possibly due to my age and mom's.

My grandmother died of the influenza outbreak in 1921 ... might be appropriate for a flu like whatever to take me?  Just a thought of what goes around comes around.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 12:54:10
That pretty well sums it up to staying at home.

You cannot do anything with that kind of distance.


Yeah, either totally quarantine yourself for months or throw caution to the wind are about the only choices.

However-

I did hear some experts discussing the timing of your exposure. They said the longer you can go without contracting it, the better. Here's why- The virus tends to weaken and become less serious/fatal as it spreads and as time goes on, so the longer you protect yourself from it, the greater odds you'll get a light case when you do get exposed. In other words, you don't want to be on the front end of this thing.

We can also work on building our immune systems which is the only precaution I'm taking at this time.

Something kind of interesting - My elderly parents aren't concerned at all, and my mom is just getting over walking pneumonia and is still weak!
They say they've lived through all kinds of epidemics/pandemics and they're always overblown, so they aren't worried. (My mom says this while inhaling through her nebulizer.) I'm glad they have a positive attitude.  ::prayinghard:: 

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 13:18:33
Yeah, either totally quarantine yourself for months or throw caution to the wind are about the only choices.

However-

I did hear some experts discussing the timing of your exposure. They said the longer you can go without contracting it, the better. Here's why- The virus tends to weaken and become less serious/fatal as it spreads and as time goes on, so the longer you protect yourself from it, the greater odds you'll get a light case when you do get exposed. In other words, you don't want to be on the front end of this thing.

We can also work on building our immune systems which is the only precaution I'm taking at this time.

Something kind of interesting - My elderly parents aren't concerned at all, and my mom is just getting over walking pneumonia and is still weak!
They say they've lived through all kinds of epidemics/pandemics and they're always overblown, so they aren't worried. (My mom says this while inhaling through her nebulizer.) I'm glad they have a positive attitude.  ::prayinghard::

Good for your folks.

I am also annoyed that mummm is the word on what, if anything they are doing to those who have it in isolation.

They say a sign is high fever... and some who were in isolation simply say they get tested daily....

Why do they not at lest talk of how they are treating the fevers.

Mega doses of aspirin or are they just letting it work its way out of people?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 18:55:32
from:https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/graphic-coronavirus-compares-flu-ebola-other-major-outbreaks/

This is the full copy of the article as it is National Geographic and often when I post these they do not come out  for you to read.

SCIENCE

How coronavirus compares to flu, Ebola, and other major outbreaks
Weighing diseases against each other is a complicated calculus. These charts explain why.
BY NSIKAN AKPAN AND KENNEDY ELLIOTT
PUBLISHED FEBRUARY 7, 2020

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS that originated in Wuhan, China, has swept across the globe, infecting about 31,500 people as of press time. But a persistent question has permeated the public consciousness: Is this new viral terror less or more dangerous than other infectious diseases?

Novel coronavirus  31,528  confirmed cases  638 deaths

Ebola 2014-2016    28,616 cases  40 percent  death rate

SARS  2002-2003    8,098 cases  10 percent  death rate

MERS 2012-present  2,494 cases 34 percent  death rate

H1N1 flu  2009
    Even though tens of millions likely contracted the H1N1 influenza virus in 2009, only 18,500 cases were confirmed. In a retrospective study, the CDC estimated that more than 284,000 people died

Zika 2015-2016

     Incidents of the mosquito-borne illness peaked in 2015, with 175,063 confirmed cases by the end of 2016. More than 500,000 people were suspected to have contracted Zika.
2,439 cases of congenital syndrome associated with Zika were reported.

Every major epidemic spawns some brand of this mental exercise, and for good reason. Health officials and regular citizens set their priorities based on the general risk to the public. This week, the World Health Organization announced plans to dole out $675 million on the barely month-old outbreak of novel coronavirus. By contrast, the agency has raised a third of this amount from international partners to combat the Ebola epidemic in central Africa, which has been raging since August 2018.

Pitting these hazards against each other calls on a complicated calculus, which weighs factors like how contagious a disease is versus fatalities and severe outcomes, versus the socioeconomic ramifications of locking down a region. (Find out what life is like inside the quarantined city of Wuhan.)

Even a simple comparison of death rates can struggle to yield a judgment on the worst infectious foe. For example, influenza—whether it be seasonal or an emerging strain like H1N1—can infect millions of people, but it kills a relatively low portion of its cases, about 0.1 percent. Pandemic coronaviruses—like SARS, MERS, and the novel strain from China—are far more severe. SARS killed about 10 percent of its cases, but it only created about 8,000 confirmed infections.

At the moment, the novel coronavirus has far surpassed SARS in terms of known infections, and it has a case-fatality ratio of 2 percent: In effect, the coronavirus is 20 times as deadly as influenza. Some scientists argue that the novel virus will burn out quickly—but that's not what happened with MERS, which has remained endemic in the Middle East since 2012.

“For the last two days there have been fewer reported new infections in China, which is good news, but at the same time, we caution against reading too much into that,” Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, director-general of the World Health Organization, said at a Friday briefing. “The numbers could go up again.”

(If you can access the link there is a graph that would not copy,concerning "The day W.H.O. issued a global alert regarding the outbreak."between coronavirus and sars. )


So, the concern is that if the novel coronavirus reaches millions of people, it could be extremely harmful. Those worries are compounded by the fact that there is no specific treatment for the novel coronavirus, unlike with the flu vaccine. A human trial of an antiviral remedy called lopinavir-ritonavir would hopefully be completed in a month’s time, Maria Van Kerkhove, an infectious disease epidemiologist who tackled the MERS crisis and the technical leader for WHO’s Health Emergencies Program, added during the briefing. This drug combination has been used in the past to fight HIV.

In the meantime, it's too early to tell how far the novel coronavirus might travel. That's why there is so much emphasis on quarantines and on restricting the movements of infected people.

As draconian and old-school as it may seem, quarantine remains one of the most valuable ways to control outbreaks. WHO credits quarantines and isolation for ultimately containing the SARS outbreak. And given that coronavirus, like influenza, spreads via close contact and over short distances, physical separation makes sense to some degree. (Find out how coronavirus spreads on a plane—and the safest place to sit)

The type of quarantine dictates its value as well. Research shows that hospital quarantines can be cost-effective, but at-home quarantines, social distancing, and travel restrictions come with the high price of disrupting commerce, even for low- and middle-income countries. China lost $55 billion in productivity during the 2009 H1N1 outbreak and $40 billion during the SARS episode, according to the Wall Street Journal. Those harsher modes of infection control also hinder the ability to measure disease burden and overall outcomes, for example, if people are kept from visiting hospitals.

Listing off priorities for the novel coronavirus, Van Kerkhove emphasized prevention of human-to-human transmission and early identification and isolation of patients. She added that the current standard of care depends on the severity of individual cases, but the worst cases require hospital-based, optimized treatments such as oxygen therapy, mechanical ventilation, and resuscitation.

“The global community around clinical management will be meeting to discuss the research needs to better care for patients infected with novel coronavirus,” Van Kerkhove says of a session scheduled for next week. “It is important that WHO work with partners and with all of you to ensure optimized standard of care at the hospital level.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 06, 2020 - 19:33:50
First confirmed case in Oklahoma is in my county. Yay.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/first-case-of-coronavirus-confirmed-in-tulsa-county
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 07, 2020 - 10:24:53
Sounds like a hoax email.

Took me a while to relocate this.....  the source.

Covid-19 precautions:

 William U. Shipley, M.D., FACR, FASTRO Andres Soriano Professor Emeritus of Radiation Oncology, Harvard Medical School
Department of Radiation Oncology
100 Blossom Street - Cox 3
Massachusetts General Hospital
Boston, Ma. 02114

e-mail: WShipley@partners.org
Tel:  857-205-2341

Corinne Mansourian Stanford University Tennis Pro Foothills Swim and Tennis Club Pro USA National High Performance Coach 650-561-275

The new Coronavirus may not show sign of infection for many days. How can one know if he/she is infected? By the time they have fever and/or cough and go to the hospital, the lung is  usually 50% Fibrosis and it's too late. Taiwan experts provide a simple self-check that we can do every morning. Take a deep breath and hold your breath for more than 10 seconds. If you complete it successfully without coughing, without discomfort, stiffness or tightness, etc., it proves there is no Fibrosis in the lungs, basically indicates no infection. In critical time, please self-check every morning in an environment with clean air.

Serious excellent advice by Japanese doctors treating COVID-19 cases: Everyone should ensure your mouth & throat are moist, never dry. Take a few sips of water every 15 minutes at least. Why? Even if the virus gets into your mouth, drinking water or other liquids will wash them down through your throat and into the stomach. Once there, your stomach acid will kill all the virus. If you don't drink enough water more regularly, the virus can enter your windpipe and into the lungs. That's very dangerous. Please send and share this with family and friends. Take care everyone and may the world recover from this Coronavirus soon.

______________________
But... in truth.... MOST doctors are inept and not worth the time to go see.

Miight be the case with this Harvard Medical School one also.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 03:19:19
All truth passes through three stages.
First , it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 04:53:18
If you had one piece of paper and if you could fold it again and again. How many times would you have to fold it to get to the moon if you was standing on it?

Only one more fold, and you would get back to the earth again in distance.

Its only 42 or 43 times . Look it up on the internet. So something that doubles keeps growing .

So where are we now in regards to this

Posted on Sun March 01

South Korea 01 March cases 4212 Deaths 26 recovered 31

Today. 8th march         Cases 7313 Deaths 50 recovered 130

Italy.  March 01          Cases 1701 Deaths 41 recovered 83

Today.8th March             Cases 5883 deaths 233 recovered 589

And we will not put in Iran because well they reckon they have a full popcorn bag

USA  Mar 02

Cases 89. Deaths 2. Recovered 9

Now. Mar 08

Cases 447. Deaths. 19.  Recovered. 15

That’s only 6 to 7 days. We will be walking on the moon soon.   
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 04:56:22
 That’s why China looked at the Ro number ( the rate someone could affect another.) it was hitting the sevens . Lock down = lack of food and really all things that we have relied on. When you see the figures!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 05:36:27
How to get rid of rubbish?  Bury scraps in the garden if you have one , and burn everything else. Please don’t start a forest fire. What about those who are in  a city? Do they just throw them over board. The stink will just be wrong.

I remember my Dad had a old 44 gallon drum .....I need to get me one.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:05:03
@Bemark

PA now has 4 confirmed cases. That is a state i the eastern US

When the economy dries up and you have no money to buy food because you cannot work or someone stayed home and did not get the auto payments into your account or your bank is closed and did not receive those auto payments or the food deliveries to your store, such as perishable things stop... and you cannot buy anything and  You cannot stockpile what is needed for all of your needs.

You will starve to death.

Would you call this a famine of another type?

Rev 6:8

Do you think we are there?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:08:26
Awakened this AM to the news.

70 trapped after China hotel used for coronavirus quarantine collapses

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/people-trapped-xinjia-hotel-collapse-china-coronavirus-12513040
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:12:51
You are invested in a truly negative outcome.  Otherwise your message from God, is not a message from God at all.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:13:08
Simple question:

There is something seemingly different about this one.  Why?

Is it merely because the world wide web is making us more aware?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:26:53
You are invested in a truly negative outcome.  Otherwise your message from God, is not a message from God at all.

Who are you talking to.

I am not the one receiving messages from God. But with the origi

Am I negative on this one.

That might be because I am facing a large loss of money because I likely will have to cancel plans for April and May and have non-refundable, already paid for, things.

Tends to make me less then happy. (Third one like this ... but at least I stopped from making my November plans.)

5 schools closed in the eastern part of the state.... Who knows about Cleveland  or Wheeling area... our news rarely mentions them.

NO, I am not afraid.

And it will not surprise me that the magic inoculation or pill will arrive on the scene Nov.4, 2020.

Then we can all scream China interference. .... NOT

But when first announced they said originated in the wet farms and was spreating through snakes and bats. My immediate thoughts went to Rev 6:8.





Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:37:41
Still trying to keep things in perspective-

In 2009, the Swine flu sickened 20 million in the US and killed 16k of us.

This bug will come and go and leave death along the way - as every pandemic does. IMO, the only thing "special" about this one is the media hyping it up to cause panic much more than they did in previous years.


(Rella, on your big investment on nonrefundable things - they may cancel and refund anyway. Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago, and they refunded)



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:41:32
Who are you talking to.

I am not the one receiving messages from God. But with the origi

Am I negative on this one.

That might be because I am facing a large loss of money because I likely will have to cancel plans for April and May and have non-refundable, already paid for, things.

Tends to make me less then happy. (Third one like this ... but at least I stopped from making my November plans.)

5 schools closed in the eastern part of the state.... Who knows about Cleveland  or Wheeling area... our news rarely mentions them.

NO, I am not afraid.

And it will not surprise me that the magic inoculation or pill will arrive on the scene Nov.4, 2020.

Then we can all scream China interference. .... NOT

But when first announced they said originated in the wet farms and was spreating through snakes and bats. My immediate thoughts went to Rev 6:8.

I was talking to bemark.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:43:55
Rev 6:8?  I thought more media exaggeration.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: 4WD on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:51:04
Still trying to keep things in perspective-

In 2009, the Swine flu sickened 20 million in the US and killed 16k of us.

This bug will come and go and leave death along the way - as every pandemic does. IMO, the only thing "special" about this one is the media hyping it up to cause panic much more than they did in previous years.


(Rella, on your big investment on nonrefundable things - they may cancel and refund anyway. Something similar happened to me a couple of years ago, and they refunded)
The media and the Left generally see the Coronavirus as the way to kill the economy in order to put a dent in Trump's reelection chances.  But I truly believe that by the time November voting day rolls around the effects of the epidemic will be seen for the minor effect that it has on the health of the country and in fact on the health of the whole world.  So that there may be some short term advantage for the Leftist; but hopefully not much.  On the other hand I see some long term advantage for Trump and for the country in convincing corporations to emphasize the need to substantially reduce our dependence upon China and other external sources for parts, materials, and products.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 08:59:04
You are invested in a truly negative outcome.  Otherwise your message from God, is not a message from God at all.
Sorry my Brother. I just can’t do this with you. I just can’t.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 09:02:15
Deleted

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 09:10:08
Deleted
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 09:20:23
The media and the Left generally see the Coronavirus as the way to kill the economy in order to put a dent in Trump's reelection chances.  But I truly believe that by the time November voting day rolls around the effects of the epidemic will be seen for the minor effect that it has on the health of the country and in fact on the health of the whole world.  So that there may be some short term advantage for the Leftist; but hopefully not much.  On the other hand I see some long term advantage for Trump and for the country in convincing corporations to emphasize the need to substantially reduce our dependence upon China and other external sources for parts, materials, and products.

+1

I still can't believe we let our sworn enemy make our meds, our medical supplies, and even the cosmetics we wipe on our lips and the shampoo we dump on our heads. CRAZY.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 11:43:02
https://youtu.be/3etuaYTDwFI

Let’s talk Math. From about 13:50.

Double trouble

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 11:46:54
Great site so listen to it all. Be informed by facts . Numbers
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 12:13:42
More math:

Between say October 2018 and February 2019, there were 35 million people in the US and A that were diagnosed with the Flu.  Roughly the same as this twitter ladies estimates for Coronavirus in the future.

35,000 people died approximately in the US.  76% of those were 65+.  If you go down to 50+, the number of deaths was 91+% of the total. 

The flu is every year.  Every year.   Every.  Year.  So no hype, no panic, yet this risk of overwhelming the healthcare system is there.  Once again:. Every year.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 12:20:55
My best friend's daughter has a doctorate in naturopathic medicine. She's suggesting liposomal vitamin c for preventing and/or treating viruses. Not mega doses, but daily doses of liposomal c which is supposed to be as effective as an IV drip of vitamin c. I ordered some last night.

IMO, the best defense against this virus or any illness is a good immune system.






Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 12:23:35
My best friend's daughter has a doctorate in naturopathic medicine. She's suggesting liposomal vitamin c for preventing and/or treating viruses. Not mega doses, but daily doses of liposomal c which is supposed to be as effective as an IV drip of vitamin c. I ordered some last night.

IMO, the best defense against this virus or any illness is a good immune system.

True.  I think like the flu, the elderly and infirm will constitute the vast majority of the deaths.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 14:21:41
+1

I still can't believe we let our sworn enemy make our meds, our medical supplies, and even the cosmetics we wipe on our lips and the shampoo we dump on our heads. CRAZY.

What I want to know is if it is the completed drug or the ingredients that are shipped world wide?

From my experiences in Canada, I know that the US is not making all of the drugs, if any.

Ordered   from Canada...

My Pradaxa, Ordered in Canada,  is shipped from Ireland.

My Rousuvastatin , Ordered in Canada,  is shipped from New Zealand.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 14:51:16
Rev 6:8?  I thought more media exaggeration.

Original suggestion was wet farms,bats and snakes.... And then China has banned eating wildlife until corona is over and done with.

Rev 6:8

8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And [a]power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

As of 19 hours ago

US coronavirus cases now at 437
From CNN's Shawn Nottingham

There are 437 cases of coronavirus in the United States, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as well as state and local governments.

There are 49 cases from repatriated citizens from Wuhan (3) and the Diamond Princess (46), according to the CDC. Twenty-one, meanwhile, are from the Grand Princess cruise ship being held off California.

According to CNN Health’s tally of US cases that are detected and tested in the United States through US public health systems, 367 cases are in 30 states, bringing the total of coronavirus cases to 437.

As of 11hours ago

19 deaths and Meanwhile in the U.S., the first case has been confirmed in the capital Washington D.C.

That is about 4.33%. While not 25% it is 4 times higher then they generall report as 1% or less around the world...



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 15:20:05
What I want to know is if it is the completed drug or the ingredients that are shipped world wide?

From my experiences in Canada, I know that the US is not making all of the drugs, if any.

Ordered   from Canada...

My Pradaxa, Ordered in Canada,  is shipped from Ireland.

My Rousuvastatin , Ordered in Canada,  is shipped from New Zealand.

Yes, you have to determine where the ingredients are sourced - where the final product is manufactured - and also where the product is packaged and who made the packaging. It's possible to get a drug sourced in the UK, manufactured in China, and packaged in the US with the packaging manufactured in China.  ::doh::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 15:27:39
Original suggestion was wet farms,bats and snakes.... And then China has banned eating wildlife until corona is over and done with.

Rev 6:8

8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And [a]power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

As of 19 hours ago

US coronavirus cases now at 437
From CNN's Shawn Nottingham

There are 437 cases of coronavirus in the United States, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as well as state and local governments.

There are 49 cases from repatriated citizens from Wuhan (3) and the Diamond Princess (46), according to the CDC. Twenty-one, meanwhile, are from the Grand Princess cruise ship being held off California.

According to CNN Health’s tally of US cases that are detected and tested in the United States through US public health systems, 367 cases are in 30 states, bringing the total of coronavirus cases to 437.

As of 11hours ago

19 deaths and Meanwhile in the U.S., the first case has been confirmed in the capital Washington D.C.

That is about 4.33%. While not 25% it is 4 times higher then they generall report as 1% or less around the world...

If not a fourth of the earth, you are misusing scripture.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 16:02:58
My best friend's daughter has a doctorate in naturopathic medicine. She's suggesting liposomal vitamin c for preventing and/or treating viruses. Not mega doses, but daily doses of liposomal c which is supposed to be as effective as an IV drip of vitamin c. I ordered some last night.

IMO, the best defense against this virus or any illness is a good immune system.

Didn't keep me from getting flu -- or something -- that flattened me almost all of January and hobbled me much of February.  It hit me like a giant hammer on Dec. 28, a couple of days after being around several hacking and snotting relatives on Christmas Day.  Worst respiratory whatever-it-was I can remember in all my almost-60 years.  Worst sore throat, worst cough, worst fatigue.  But only slight fever, and the fever only lasted a few days.

I lost about fifteen pounds in six weeks, so that part was cool.   ::clappingoverhead::

And yes, I'm about to order a new batch of lipo-C.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 17:48:04
If not a fourth of the earth, you are misusing scripture.

And if it gets to be 1/4 of earth, will you consider a possibility?

You have to start with 1 to get to a fourth.

Not saying this is what is going to be that fourth... but someday something will.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 17:51:08
+1

I still can't believe we let our sworn enemy make our meds, our medical supplies, and even the cosmetics we wipe on our lips and the shampoo we dump on our heads. CRAZY.

And poisoning items at that. Back 20 years ago , they we doing all the whitening toothpastes.
Some led to Thrush... a terrible irritation in the mouth.

Stopped using that toothpaste and the thrush went away.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 17:55:55
If you were very diligent in building a healthy immune system, it would likely take months to make a difference in your body. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 19:51:43
Didn't keep me from getting flu -- or something -- that flattened me almost all of January and hobbled me much of February.  It hit me like a giant hammer on Dec. 28, a couple of days after being around several hacking and snotting relatives on Christmas Day.  Worst respiratory whatever-it-was I can remember in all my almost-60 years.  Worst sore throat, worst cough, worst fatigue.  But only slight fever, and the fever only lasted a few days.

I lost about fifteen pounds in six weeks, so that part was cool.   ::clappingoverhead::

And yes, I'm about to order a new batch of lipo-C.

Well, that sounds awful, NorrinRadd. Glad you recovered!
So you were actually taking liposomal C when you got this flu thing? Maybe it isn't much of an immune booster.  ::shrug::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 20:37:25
Well, that sounds awful, NorrinRadd. Glad you recovered!
So you were actually taking liposomal C when you got this flu thing? Maybe it isn't much of an immune booster.  ::shrug::

I think I've been taking it over 10 years, since reading a book by Tom Levy.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 08, 2020 - 21:02:08
I think I've been taking it over 10 years, since reading a book by Tom Levy.

smh....

Well, I should have ordered a chocolate cake instead of the lipo c, then.  ::frown:: 

Like my dad has said from time to time - Eat dessert first cause you never know when the Lord is coming back.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 09, 2020 - 10:22:36
Quick.. where can I get corona virus that is will take me out.

If not that my heart will fail me cause look what t is doing to the market. %*&%#@!*^%$#@#$%^& And I ean every word of that
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 09, 2020 - 10:38:33
Elderberry Syrup and essential oils .

Jim Bakker was selling silver solution to combat coronavirus.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 09, 2020 - 12:47:21
Elderberry Syrup and essential oils .

Jim Bakker was selling silver solution to combat coronavirus.

As in Tammy Faye????

How about Elderberry wine?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 00:47:15
I was out stacking wood today. I only ordered it a few days ago. Getting ready for our winter . I was pondering this whole this and I asking the Lord stuff. Then I heard “it’s sudden”
the lord speaks to me in a way I can understand .

I know this virus has come upon the word really suddenly and really has left all countries lacking in how they have prepared for this day, even though they was told a event like this will happen some day. A little bit like we know Jesus is coming. We know he is but, we don’t know the day nor the hour.

He comes like a thief in the night. That got me think. A thief comes to steal. The devil to rob and destroy. Thats not our Jesus. He comes to bring life.

Malachi 3:1 NKJV

“Behold, I send My messenger, And he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming,” Says the LORD of hosts.

I believe that there are 2 doors open in the spirit realm . One is time and the next one is sudden.

My mum just said to me from the word

Isaiah 59:19
“So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.”

I am starting to string together what he has been saying

The way he speaks to me so I can get it.

He has a plan for us and for those who don’t know him yet

What is my role in this plan. What can I do?

Also expect that the Lord will suddenly appear . Don’t limit yourselves because of we have only known him and his kingdom by what we have experienced yesterday and today. The days coming are dark but his light will burn brighter. He going to raise the standard .

2 Peter 3:9 New King James Version (NKJV)

9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

I believe the Lord is saying get ready, I’m about to move





 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 00:56:12
Psalm 24..

Lift up your heads, O you gates!
And be lifted up, you everlasting doors!
And the King of glory shall come in.
8 Who is this King of glory?
The Lord strong and mighty,
The Lord mighty in battle.
9 Lift up your heads, O you gates!
Lift up, you everlasting doors!
And the King of glory shall come in.
10 Who is this King of glory?
The Lord of hosts,
He is the King of glory. Selah
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 01:00:23
If you see someone in need help them , comfort them. Look for this moment of time and the Lord will appear. This is the day of salvation for many.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: RB on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 02:07:09
Brother Mark~greetings. The present Coronavirus on the NEWS both social media and TV is a HOAX as far as being dangerous. It actually has killed a FEW WORLDWIDE! I will take time maybe today or tomorrow and prove just how much FAKE NEWS this~this corrupt and LIBERAL world is working OVERTIME to get our president out of office and the ONLY path that they see at this moment is to use such things as this to SLOW DOWN THE AMERICA ECONOMY. Good luck with that if God has chosen the bless our economy. Do a personal study on how many people had a virus and died even in 2017-18 with influenza~it would shock you when matched up against the present virus. It would be like comparing a one-year-old child's IQ with Albert Einstein...there is NO comparison to be had.

Mark~coronvirus is something that we all have had, JUST A DIFFERENT type of coronvirus~ google your information DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NEWS!  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html

One of my grandsons is getting his doctoral degree from CDC in Atlanta, Georiga USA
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 04:33:08
Brother Mark~greetings. The present Coronavirus on the NEWS both social media and TV is a HOAX as far as being dangerous. It actually has killed a FEW WORLDWIDE! I will take time maybe today or tomorrow and prove just how much FAKE NEWS this~this corrupt and LIBERAL world is working OVERTIME to get our president out of office and the ONLY path that they see at this moment is to use such things as this to SLOW DOWN THE AMERICA ECONOMY. Good luck with that if God has chosen the bless our economy. Do a personal study on how many people had a virus and died even in 2017-18 with influenza~it would shock you when matched up against the present virus. It would be like comparing a one-year-old child's IQ with Albert Einstein...there is NO comparison to be had.

Mark~coronvirus is something that we all have had, JUST A DIFFERENT type of coronvirus~ google your information DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NEWS!  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html

One of my grandsons is getting his doctoral degree from CDC in Atlanta, Georiga USA
Hi RB I never said that is was going to be the plaque that killed billions of people. It will cause disruptions throughout the world and will cause supply shortages. SO BUY FOOD. These can cause  a economic collapse and cause more deaths than a common cold. It’s unfolding as I said.
If you think it all started To  remove D.T or smashing the American economy, I totally disagree with that. A rodent feeds upon the dead so yes the spin doctors will take this to reinforce there political stance.

Like China with there spin doctors , who now say it was a USA bio weapon and it’s all there fault. They are saying the world needs to say sorry and praise them as they have saved us all. So much spin RB so much spin

Let’s also note this...a common cold that we know off and the death from that,  hasn't locked down China and now Italy. also causing school closures in Australia. If we think that we have the full numbers now, before we fully understand this type of corona virus or have seen its life span then  we are truly mistaken.  Some reports that it has man-changes to turn it into a bio weapon. 2 Chinese people who was working at Canada’s bio place was escorted out of Canada back to there place just 35km from the wet market. Now China is reversing that onto the USA.  Saying it’s there fault and there bio weapon.

Looking forward to hearing what you are getting on this

Mark
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 04:45:44
I just Think wouldn’t this be a great spin.  if we all get convinced that we all need the micro chip in out hands so we don’t have to touch the money machines and get infected. Swipe and go. We all would be jumping up and down saying give me that chip.  Walk up to a elevator and wave our hands . The whole world would jump on board. Who knows my brother.......this is new ground for us all and it’s too early even for the so called experts to get it right.

I have been watching this for months  now unfold.  Once Italy started to pop China released that statement . Its the USA and their bio weapon. no one believes them at all.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 07:18:25
Just wondering which part is the hoax; the spread and contraction of the virus or the symptoms and effects of having the virus?

From the link Red posted, it does indeed seem rather serious if contracted.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: 4WD on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 07:43:02
Just wondering which part is the hoax; the spread and contraction of the virus or the symptoms and effects of having the virus?

From the link Red posted, it does indeed seem rather serious if contracted.
Apparently only for the old and already weakened among us.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: RB on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 08:01:09
Just wondering which part is the hoax; the spread and contraction of the virus or the symptoms and effects of having the virus? From the link Red posted, it does indeed seem rather serious if contracted.
I should have said as far as the possibility of contracting this virus~even someone my age.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 08:02:01
Allan you are right and the problem is when we link it to a common thing like the cold and we say it’s not a biggie because of the numbers we can crunch. But how can we crunch numbers when this virus is young and they say can hit us again stronger the next time it hits, people recovered are still not recovered. Showed signs

Here are some numbers from the tip of the ice burg .and don’t forget China has had to go into lockdown to keep there figures low. So how long can some one live underground?

China cases 80,756 deaths 3136 so 3136 divided  into 80,756 = 0.0388 x 100. = 3.8% death rate from what we know now. They say 60,108 are recovered so about 20,000 cases are not yet known.what way will they swing
China if you believe them

Italy cases 9172 deaths 463 recovered 724.   463  divided into 9172 = 0.050 x 100 = 5% death rate

They have now locked down there entire country like China had to because the Ro number kept climbing. They have the second best medical rating in Europe im led to believe. May be wrong in that. From memory. They are been over worked and medical stuff is running out. How long before food runs out and other medical supplies stop,coming. More die from other stuff that would have been dealt with in

All the other countries are icebergs under the water . Numbers that now make the world % low. The numbers are not out there yet . In One to 2 years maybe we can say it’s nothing more that a common cold.

Let’s see what happens

Italy was on average age 81 on those whom has died. Wow they live long over there.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 08:08:20
RB experts ....who are they? Have said that they believe in the next 2 years 30-70% of the worlds population will be infected.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 08:16:40
Over the age of 75 only  15% die.   They also had other conditions that made it worse. Younger people say it was just a bad cold.

Then they shut down there economy over this.

Well it’s still a lots of deaths . What are they not telling us?

I think these. Numbers are right

7.7 billion so 1% is 75 odd million?

So 5% is 375 million ?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 08:29:38
I calculated the numbers on if all 100% of people get infected. So my numbers are not right. Will do the math tomorrow. I’m off to bed. So it’s either 30-70 of 7.7 billion then 3.5-5% of that. Good night . The reason I normally leave my posts as they are is to be transparent. I make mistakes and correct them not wipe them out. Except for spelling mistakes
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 08:53:10
Let’s add some more fuel to the fire

I looked up there demographics

65 years and older 21.69% . Males 5,817,819.  Females. 7,683,330. (2018)

Check this one out .....ok 81 years old was the average death from this corona virus if you believe the news!

Now life expectancy at birth. Total population 82.4 years (2018est)
Male 79.7 years
Female 85.2 years.

They was already dropping from the tree.Maybe it’s Logan’s run in action
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 09:10:36
Just wondering which part is the hoax; the spread and contraction of the virus or the symptoms and effects of having the virus?

From the link Red posted, it does indeed seem rather serious if contracted.

Well, I pray it is a hoax. And fake news is behind the "take down Trump this way movement"

But it is not.

Italy does not march to our MSM. And neither do the other countries.

Last nights news conference said now that it is here, it will be an annual thing like the flu.

But with up to 18 months to wait for a shot, we could be in this winter time self hibernation mode .

All I read is how bad it is for people with health issues and older folks.

Bemark:

I heard today that China had only 8 new cases. So they may be winding down.

But last night I did hear now that it is here it will always be here. It will cycle like the flu.

They must get a shot that like the annual flu ones we can dutifully go get.

If you are opposed to shots it will be a problem

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 09:53:11
Well, I pray it is a hoax. And fake news is behind the "take down Trump this way movement"

But it is not.

Italy does not march to our MSM. And neither do the other countries.

Last nights news conference said now that it is here, it will be an annual thing like the flu.

But with up to 18 months to wait for a shot, we could be in this winter time self hibernation mode .

All I read is how bad it is for people with health issues and older folks.

Bemark:

I heard today that China had only 8 new cases. So they may be winding down.

But last night I did hear now that it is here it will always be here. It will cycle like the flu.

They must get a shot that like the annual flu ones we can dutifully go get.

If you are opposed to shots it will be a problem

If the strains mutate, the shot may be worthless.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 11:32:39
If the strains mutate, the shot may be worthless.

It is certain to mutate... and it will be a constant catch up to find something.

There are 4 strains of Corona Virus.... now. And 7 known conaviruses.

And Sars and Mers are in the group.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html

 Many of the people who have a COVID-19 infection have pneumonia in both lungs.

https://medlineplus.gov/coronavirusinfections.html

Dr Mark Siegal just mentioned this is promising....


A US biotech firm has ramped up production of an experimental drug that has become a focal point for hopes of an effective treatment for coronavirus.

The first clinical trial of the antiviral medicine remdesivir in Covid-19 patients is due to report its findings next month according to Gilead Sciences, which said it had accelerated manufacturing of the drug to increase its supplies “as rapidly as possible”.

As the coronavirus outbreak has unfolded, about 300 separate trials into different drugs and experimental therapies have been launched in the absence of any established treatments. Many see remdesivir, originally developed to treat Ebola, as a frontrunner and one of the very few drugs that has a reasonable prospect of helping patients in the near-term.

While this is great... I dont want it and need a med... I want to avoid it.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 12:41:31
Speaking of older people... has anyone heard from Grams lately?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 14:23:28
Speaking of older people... has anyone heard from Grams lately?

No, I haven't. Hope she's ok.

*I just sent her a message. Hope she answers. She's hasn't checked in since mid January.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 14:25:09
Iranian media reports that at least 44 people have died from alcohol poisoning and hundreds have been hospitalized after consuming bootleg alcohol in an effort to treat the coronavirus.

The Middle Eastern country, which has been especially hit hard by the coronavirus – with 8,042 confirmed cases and at least 291 deaths as of Tuesday – has struggled to prevent the spread of the virus.

The majority of deaths attributed to the coronavirus in the Middle East are in Iran.

A false rumor has circulated throughout the country that drinking alcohol can cure or prevent the coronavirus. Drinking alcohol is prohibited in the country.

Some citizens, according to Iran Health Ministry official Ali Ehsanpour, drank alcohol that substituted toxic methanol for ethanol, using bleach to mask the color. Seven bootleggers have been arrested.

In one part of the country, Khuzestan, more people have died from alcohol poisoning than from the coronavirus in that area, according to the state news agency IRNA. More than 30 people have died from poisoning, and 18 have died from the virus.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/least-44-dead-drinking-toxic-155009184.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 14:28:14
Oklahoma's 2nd confirmed case of coronavirus, and as before, here in Tulsa County. A young woman in her 20s brought it back from Italy.

Italy seems to be a hot-bed for this stuff.


I went to the grocery store last night. Okies don't appear to be in a panic mode about the coronas yet. Plenty of everything, except Lysol/Clorox wipes and Lysol spray. Oh, no alcohol, either. Besides those items, all shelves are stocked full and people shopping as they usually do. Actually, our stores were low on Lysol/Clorox items before the big corona scare simply because we're still having a boatload of regular flu around here.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 14:34:49
The CDC is saying people over 60 with any underlying health conditions should pretty much self quarantine. My question is - Who makes it past 60 with absolutely no underlying health condition?? Everyone I know over 60 has at least one health issue.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 17:01:46
If we don’t take this serious then this is what I was seeing at the start from China. Then they started to weld up doors and drag people off. Breaking into their apartments.

A overwhelmed medical system already

https://youtu.be/bOkkp8UPIYg
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 17:03:27
Well, I pray it is a hoax. And fake news is behind the "take down Trump this way movement"

But it is not.

Italy does not march to our MSM. And neither do the other countries.

Last nights news conference said now that it is here, it will be an annual thing like the flu.

But with up to 18 months to wait for a shot, we could be in this winter time self hibernation mode .

All I read is how bad it is for people with health issues and older folks.

Bemark:

I heard today that China had only 8 new cases. So they may be winding down.

But last night I did hear now that it is here it will always be here. It will cycle like the flu.

They must get a shot that like the annual flu ones we can dutifully go get.

If you are opposed to shots it will be a problem
maybe they are not telling the truth. Maybe there lockdown system is working or prolonging what’s going to happen anyway. Can a economy stand this? Nope
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 17:06:09
If the strains mutate, the shot may be worthless.
it already has mutated. It could keep evolving as well. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2236544-coronavirus-are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/

Either way it’s here to stay
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 17:10:44
Oklahoma's 2nd confirmed case of coronavirus, and as before, here in Tulsa County. A young woman in her 20s brought it back from Italy.

Italy seems to be a hot-bed for this stuff.


I went to the grocery store last night. Okies don't appear to be in a panic mode about the coronas yet. Plenty of everything, except Lysol/Clorox wipes and Lysol spray. Oh, no alcohol, either. Besides those items, all shelves are stocked full and people shopping as they usually do. Actually, our stores were low on Lysol/Clorox items before the big corona scare simply because we're still having a boatload of regular flu around here.
Get toilet paper

https://youtu.be/Y1nEnOmC6IQ
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 17:44:30
Get toilet paper

https://youtu.be/Y1nEnOmC6IQ

Bemark, there's a Kimberly-Clark factory only 5 miles from my house, where they make toilet paper 24/7. Besides, I use a bidet so there's no need for toilet paper.  ::blushing:: 

For those of you wanting to cut back on your toilet paper usage, an add on bidet will do the trick. No plumber needed, and you'll stay clean as a whistle without toilet paper. As expensive as toilet paper is, it will pay for itself in no time.

There are several types to choose from, but this is the one I bought-

(https://i.imgur.com/BxIDB7c.png) 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 17:54:23
Get toilet paper

https://youtu.be/Y1nEnOmC6IQ

You can order from Amazon and have it auto shipped monthly. Or bi-monthly.

That way you dont need to leave your house. ::tippinghat::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 20:30:34
Brother Mark~greetings. The present Coronavirus on the NEWS both social media and TV is a HOAX as far as being dangerous. It actually has killed a FEW WORLDWIDE! I will take time maybe today or tomorrow and prove just how much FAKE NEWS this~this corrupt and LIBERAL world is working OVERTIME to get our president out of office and the ONLY path that they see at this moment is to use such things as this to SLOW DOWN THE AMERICA ECONOMY. Good luck with that if God has chosen the bless our economy. Do a personal study on how many people had a virus and died even in 2017-18 with influenza~it would shock you when matched up against the present virus. It would be like comparing a one-year-old child's IQ with Albert Einstein...there is NO comparison to be had.

Mark~coronvirus is something that we all have had, JUST A DIFFERENT type of coronvirus~ google your information DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NEWS!  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html

One of my grandsons is getting his doctoral degree from CDC in Atlanta, Georiga USA

Calling the mortality rate of a disease a "hoax" all depends on what you think is an acceptable mortality rate for a disease.
In this case not only the physical number of deaths is important, what is a far more concerning matter is the speed by which it does so.
What we are looking at here is a disease that has the ability to kill within a very short time span.

Lets imagine everybody accepts a low mortality figure of 1% and we let this virus with a relative high infection rate go around unchecked.
The state of Texas has a population of about 30 million people.
Even if only half of the population is infected, you are still looking at a potential 150,000 deaths in a time span of weeks.

Now multiply that with the percentages mentioned in the above responses varying from 3% to 5%
Are you really prepared to call this disease a hoax if lets say in the next 6 weeks or so half a million people die in Texas alone?

With regards to the politicization of this virus, well thats a typical USA problem where politics is practiced by black mouthing the opposition.
Both sides of the argument point the finger at the other, but that's how you guys want it right?
From what I have seen the US is badly prepared and I am sure on the background people work very hard to get all issues resolved.
It is really sad however that even in a time of emergency USA politics is unable to form a front, but instead spouts all kinds of misinformation in the public domain just to achieve a political advantage.
But then again, it's the government you guys picked.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 21:25:33
Calling the mortality rate of a disease a "hoax" all depends on what you think is an acceptable mortality rate for a disease.
In this case not only the physical number of deaths is important, what is a far more concerning matter is the speed by which it does so.
What we are looking at here is a disease that has the ability to kill within a very short time span.

Lets imagine everybody accepts a low mortality figure of 1% and we let this virus with a relative high infection rate go around unchecked.
The state of Texas has a population of about 30 million people.
Even if only half of the population is infected, you are still looking at a potential 150,000 deaths in a time span of weeks.

Now multiply that with the percentages mentioned in the above responses varying from 3% to 5%
Are you really prepared to call this disease a hoax if lets say in the next 6 weeks or so half a million people die in Texas alone?

With regards to the politicization of this virus, well thats a typical USA problem where politics is practiced by black mouthing the opposition.
Both sides of the argument point the finger at the other, but that's how you guys want it right?
From what I have seen the US is badly prepared and I am sure on the background people work very hard to get all issues resolved.
It is really sad however that even in a time of emergency USA politics is unable to form a front, but instead spouts all kinds of misinformation in the public domain just to achieve a political advantage.
But then again, it's the government you guys picked.

Says the guy who defends and praises the Asian countries where this nasty, deadly shit is unleashed on the world.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 10, 2020 - 23:21:58
Bemark, there's a Kimberly-Clark factory only 5 miles from my house, where they make toilet paper 24/7. Besides, I use a bidet so there's no need for toilet paper.  ::blushing:: 

For those of you wanting to cut back on your toilet paper usage, an add on bidet will do the trick. No plumber needed, and you'll stay clean as a whistle without toilet paper. As expensive as toilet paper is, it will pay for itself in no time.

There are several types to choose from, but this is the one I bought-

(https://i.imgur.com/BxIDB7c.png)
I used to put my kids under the shower and hose them down after they overfilled there nappies
 Rotavirus, o my gosh,  how bad can that stink. I like you idea as well. I have thought about it from time to time. So much cleaner .

Just some thoughts to a back up system, what if the power goes out. Then water stops flowing. Unless you have a solar system, back up petrol generator and a well in your back yard. I would love to be in the country now, on a farm or a lifestyle block. Heck a decked out shipping container off grid living looks good right now.

There was this old dude on the tube who brought up say 50? USA school buses and dug a deep hole and converted them to underground bunkers. Called it the ark and only a selected few was chosen in the event of a emergency.   Not so crazy now......well?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: RB on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 03:27:13
But then again, it's the government you guys picked.
Greetings AVZ, I wish that I had nor even posted in this thread now looking back~for truly I DO NOT CARE and I certainly do not want to get sidetracked on such issues as this one from what we should be doing for The Lord. I'm NOT going to have a disagreement with believers over such earthly issues.  I'm out of here. RB
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 05:52:42
If the strains mutate, the shot may be worthless.

Reports from 5-7 days ago were saying there are already two different strains of Covid-19:  "S" and "L."
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: 4WD on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 06:18:14
Calling the mortality rate of a disease a "hoax" all depends on what you think is an acceptable mortality rate for a disease.
No, it really depends on how they determine or calculate the rate.  As it now stands, they readily admit that there are many, perhaps most, that contract the disease will not display any symptoms and some will display only minor symptoms and thus will not even be tested. They are not figuring those into their rate calculations and therefore their rates may be high by a lot.  I suspect that is the situation now with COVID-19.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 08:10:32
No, it really depends on how they determine or calculate the rate.  As it now stands, they readily admit that there are many, perhaps most, that contract the disease will not display any symptoms and some will display only minor symptoms and thus will not even be tested. They are not figuring those into their rate calculations and therefore their rates may be high by a lot.  I suspect that is the situation now with COVID-19.
yep good point as in without test kits we can’t test anybody. So these random deaths outside of the tests are just not virus related because we just don’t know , because we run out of test kits. Reported now if they do, as only old age or whatever killed them. But please burn them quick. Overrun hospitals . Come on. Bodies being burnt over China recorded by satellite when there factories are shut down. There is something in the air tonight. 

So now we have a country we can believe in ....Italy. Let’s now see the truth and how it could unfold in other countries. They are following China’s lockdown strategy. You can get locked up or fined if you don’t comply in Italy. Papers needed like in 2nd world war. . Locked up in a confinement center like China did. Dragging people of in vans. Come on smell the bacon . Jail = death surrounded by journalists who did not obey the CCP, I mean the WHO
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 08:37:19
Italy now 60 million in lockdown . Italy has a advanced health care system that cant cope.

Following now ,China who are East Asian and have one of the highest  IQs in the world,  Decided to lock down there economy.

How much proof do you need?   To understand
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 08:54:22
I think I have talked  myself out, that’s saying something.  . I can’t do this anymore , and like RB i am out. Do what you think is right. Others will follow you . I have delivered what I have believed to be God speaking to me and shared it with you,  so you can have more flour and oil in your jars.

From your Brother in Christ Jesus...we will meet again. Love you all

Mark
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 08:57:20
Italy now 60 million in lockdown . Italy has a advanced health care system that cant cope.

Following now ,China who are East Asian and have one of the highest  IQs in the world,  Decided to lock down there economy.

How much proof do you need?   To understand

I understand this.

Panic will not help.

We can lock down the entire world... but to what end.... and for how long.

You never did tell us where you are from.... If here in the states you could get your test kit.

But once we are locked down, and our stock piles have dwindled, then we will be in the same situation as China without food.

Ia will have an inability to buy any even if it were available because we will not have electricity as it will be cut off because we have no money to pay for it.

You need to calm down and calmly tell folks that you believe you have a word from God and this is what it said....

And then lets all brainstorm on how we can protect ourselves.

BTW

How old are you. I am 73 and my mom in her 80s.. both with health issues. They say anyone over 60 has a greater chance of being one of the ones who dies if we get it.

If you are younger then that you need to look to your older neighbors and see what you can do to help them... maybe do shopping for them?

I will tell you this that this is a great way in the US to keep people from voting.... just sayin.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 11:42:27
I think I have talked  myself out, that’s saying something.  . I can’t do this anymore , and like RB i am out. Do what you think is right. Others will follow you . I have delivered what I have believed to be God speaking to me and shared it with you,  so you can have more flour and oil in your jars.

From your Brother in Christ Jesus...we will meet again. Love you all

Mark

Mark, thank you for your input on this thread. IMO, we should be cautious, thoughtful, and helpful to others, but not panicked. I'm growing more concerned about my elderly parents - especially since my mom can't seem to shake her walking pneumonia. Getting corona on top of it would kill her.

I went back to my grocery store last night for a few things (around 9 p.m. when the store isn't busy) and noticed the Clorox/Lysol wipes, Lysol spray, and alcohol had all been restocked. I bought one 3 pack of Clorox wipes. I bought enough basics to keep from having to go to the store for 2-3 weeks. I'm not hoarding or panicking - just trying to limit my exposure to corona and the regular flu which is still going strong here. I'm so used to running to the store at the drop of a hat, so stocking up for a couple of weeks at a time takes some thought and planning.

Oh - I also put a container of Clorox wipes in my car to wipe down the steering wheel, or touch pads at various locations - bank, car wash, etc.



Title: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 16:13:49
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House has ordered federal health officials to treat top-level coronavirus meetings as classified, an unusual step that has restricted information and hampered the U.S. government’s response to the contagion, according to four Trump administration officials.

The officials said that dozens of classified discussions about such topics as the scope of infections, quarantines and travel restrictions have been held since mid-January in a high-security meeting room at the Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), a key player in the fight against the coronavirus.

Staffers without security clearances, including government experts, were excluded from the interagency meetings, which included video conference calls, the sources said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-white-house-told-federal-163043805.html

Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 17:28:40
Why bother? It will be leaked within 6 hours and no one will be held responsible for the leak.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 17:31:06
COVID-19 has now been upgraded to a pandemic, this will get much worse before the dust begins to settle. It's just starting it's breakout here and people have no idea how to deal with it. Running to the ER or Urgent Care Clinics will do nothing but ensure that the virus spreads, OTOH we do not enough clean rooms to handle the volume of people insisting they be tested and once a person clears the room it requires a minimum 30 minute sterilization.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 17:45:09
Fear of the unknown.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 17:52:42
My youngest daughter got emails from her place of employment and her law school instructing her on how to work - study - attend class from home - saying it may come to that very soon.
My grandson's girlfriend received an email today from OU saying they may not open campus after spring break, so make sure to take all belongings they keep at school before leaving for spring break just in case they do go ahead and close the campus.

I wonder how long these school/work from home schedules could last? Cabin Fever may set in.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 17:54:38
No face to face classes for most universities in Michigan.  March madness will go on without fans according to NCAA. 

People are nuts. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 18:00:14
Fear of the unknown.

I just found a thread I started here in 2017 on getting diagnosed with Type A flu. Reading the thread, it sounded like it was a very bad year across the country. Many of us here were really sick with it.

According to the CDC, we had 80k deaths here in the US during that winter - hitting the elderly hard - as usual.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 18:06:52
I just found a thread I started here in 2017 on getting diagnosed with Type A flu. Reading the thread, it sounded like it was a very bad year across the country. Many of us here were really sick with it.

According to the CDC, we had 80k deaths here in the US during that winter - hitting the elderly hard - as usual.

We have roughly 44k suicides per year just in the USA.  Another 250k a year here for medical errors.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 18:20:58
I would assume it's just to avoid it being public record that can be cited later.

The panic over this has gotten pretty crazy, especially when you consider that this virus is just a variant of the Common Cold.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 18:29:54
They stupidly sounded the "Pandemic" alarm today.

Also POTUS is addressing the nation from the Oval Office at 9 tonight.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 19:05:39
What is the reason for the toilet paper hording around the country?
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 19:29:00
What is the reason for he toilet paper hording around the country?

If my dad were alive he would be.

My guess is that there are those fearful of of being in forced quarantines and running out.  ::eek::

There is a shortage of anti-bacterial Kleenex products so there may be no option if they do.

Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 19:47:20
I would assume food would be more urgent if there were forced quarantines.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 19:58:39
 I heard on the news tonight that the March Madness basketball games will have NO fans.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 20:27:04
Fear of the unknown.

When the large number of deaths are known and not preventable, it's not a big deal.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 20:40:03
I just heard the NBA is suspending season until further notice after a player tested positive for coronavirus.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 21:00:55
Now if MLB suspended their season, that would be cause for  celebration.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 11, 2020 - 21:18:42
Probably all Trump rallies are no more!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 00:34:30
We have roughly 44k suicides per year just in the USA.  Another 250k a year here for medical errors.

Medical errors third leading cause of death in U.S.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 02:39:53
We have roughly 44k suicides per year just in the USA.  Another 250k a year here for medical errors.

Perhaps those patients are all people who wanted to commit suicide and increase their chance of success.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 06:50:20
I would assume it's just to avoid it being public record that can be cited later.

The panic over this has gotten pretty crazy, especially when you consider that this virus is just a variant of the Common Cold.


900 people in Italy have died in just 20 days, this "variant" of the Common Cold packs quite a punch.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 06:59:02
As does every flu outbreak for those 80 and older. It does not affect all ages the same. Every annual flu outbreak is vastly more dangerous to the elderly than to the general population.

My question is if we took all the unusual precautions that we are doing with Corona virus, we could have mitigated tens of thousands of cases of flu each year along with the inevitable thousands of deaths. I read that the swine flu outbreak a few years ago killed over a half a million worldwide. I don’t recall any toilet oaper shortages. Not saying this thing now is minor, but some perspective seems to be missing.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 07:04:37
AM news said this should spread to 120 million in the US and 20% of those will be deadly.

No outbreaks around me but 1 city school close today for cleaning when 1 student said they may have been exposed.

BUT the real biggie.

They are talking about reducing the number of emergency responders to any given call to reduce exposure because they say
it is coming.

The St. Pats Day parade was cancelled here also.

Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 07:08:48

900 people in Italy have died in just 20 days, this "variant" of the Common Cold packs quite a punch.

Italy has a statistically aged population.  A massive flu outbreak may well do a similar thing with a lower mortality rate.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 07:10:18
AM news said this should spread to 120 million in the US and 20% of those will be deadly.

No outbreaks around me but 1 city school close today for cleaning when 1 student said they may have been exposed.

BUT the real biggie.

They are talking about reducing the number of emergency responders to any given call to reduce exposure because they say
it is coming.

The St. Pats Day parade was cancelled here also.

20% deadly?  No.  Maybe 20% deadly over age 80. That would follow Italy's mortality rate.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 07:16:54
Italy has a statistically aged population.  A massive flu outbreak may well do a similar thing with a lower mortality rate.


"May well" but hasn't in the past, the effects of this virus are unprecedented in Italy.


Italy with it's right wing politics downplayed the seriousness of this virus, I don't believe we should make the same mistake.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 07:24:07
20% deadly?  No.  Maybe 20% deadly over age 80. That would follow Italy's mortality rate.

I think they might have been saying that 20% would follow the older people.

Smile TC.... You might get rid of me yet, Poopsie.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 07:26:26
LOL  ::pondering:: ::doh::

Look at these prices........

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR11.TRC1.A0.H0.XLysol+spray.TRS0&_nkw=Lysol+spray&_sacat=0
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: geronimo on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 08:41:02
 The physical death rate is the same now as it always has been. 100 %.

 Doesn't matter who we try and blame it on. There are no survivors.

 To some of us, that in itself is a blessing.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 11:28:35
Medical errors third leading cause of death in U.S.
And they wonder why I avoid hospitals like the plague...
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 12:14:24

"May well" but hasn't in the past, the effects of this virus are unprecedented in Italy.


Italy with it's right wing politics downplayed the seriousness of this virus, I don't believe we should make the same mistake.

In the 2018/19 flu season which is the most recent cdc statistics, 28,000 people 65+ died in the US out of approximately 3.5 million cases.  Had this flu not had a shot available and had it been far more contagious, it would be very much the same.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:03:21
In the 2018/19 flu season which is the most recent cdc statistics, 28,000 people 65+ died in the US out of approximately 3.5 million cases.  Had this flu not had a shot available and had it been far more contagious, it would be very much the same.


That's a .08% mortality rate, I believe COVID-19 has a much higher rate of 3%, that would equate to over 100,000 deaths in the same season. Also keep in mind that reporting just began approx 8 weeks ago, it has a long way to go yet.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:36:28
But virtually all the mortality is for 80+ year olds or people with other immunity type problems. From what I have read the mortality rate AND the symptoms are way less than the flu for people younger than 80. This is a very serious elderly illness.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:38:51

That's a .08% mortality rate, I believe COVID-19 has a much higher rate of 3%, that would equate to over 100,000 deaths in the same season. Also keep in mind that reporting just began approx 8 weeks ago, it has a long way to go yet.

We can't be sure of the true mortality rate due to lack of testing.  Saw an article today about a recovery patient.  Only she got tested but had 11 others that got similar symptoms after a party did not.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:39:57
I think it is adequate to protect/isolate the elderly from others.  But not everything else.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: NorrinRadd on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:40:21
I would assume it's just to avoid it being public record that can be cited later.

The panic over this has gotten pretty crazy, especially when you consider that this virus is just a variant of the Common Cold.

Don't be an ass.  It's a "variant of the Common Cold" in the same way that Howitzers, AK-47s, and muzzle-loaders are "variants" of explosive-fired projectile weapons.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: NorrinRadd on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:48:23
We can't be sure of the true mortality rate due to lack of testing.  Saw an article today about a recovery patient.  Only she got tested but had 11 others that got similar symptoms after a party did not.

The R0 and CFR numbers are all over the place.  I'm skeptical they will ever be more than guesses.

Some doctor called El Rushbo a day or so ago, saying that *everyone* should be tested.  That's stupid, because it is known that the test can yield both false positives and false negatives.

The "11 others" are among those who definitely *should* be tested.  They have symptoms and known exposure.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 13:49:42
I'm hoping to increase my patronage of Chinese restaurants over the next several weeks.   ::smile::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 14:01:34
Okies are officially in panic mode now. Just stopped at the store. All paper products are gone. No TP, paper towels, Kleenex, paper napkins - yet, strangely, the food products are still on shelves and look fully stocked. I don't understand this hoarding of paper products. Also noticed no one has been raiding the liquid bleach yet. Maybe people don't know the effectiveness of bleach water for disinfecting purposes? I have two gallons of bleach here at the house. Before Christmas, I was going to bleach pinecones for decorations, but never got around to it.  ::noworries::'
Oh, I saw two male shoppers in the store wearing masks.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 14:13:37
I just received an email from my credit card company saying they want to help customers during the coronavirus outbreak. Their idea of help is making sure everyone knows how to make payments and check balances online.  rofl

I'm not sure what I was expecting, but that's pretty cold. Kind of like - "Hi there, if you're sick with the coronas, please make sure you know how to crawl to the computer and make your payments to us so you won't get late charges."  rofl
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 14:56:35
I just received an email from my credit card company saying they want to help customers during the coronavirus outbreak. Their idea of help is making sure everyone knows how to make payments and check balances online.  rofl

I'm not sure what I was expecting, but that's pretty cold. Kind of like - "Hi there, if you're sick with the coronas, please make sure you know how to crawl to the computer and make your payments to us so you won't get late charges."  rofl

Me too. Though I did not read past where they said we want to help with the Coronavirus yada yada....

If it was not too warped, I would be inclined to reply to them with...not necessary, but I'll try not to sneeze on the envelope before I mail it.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 15:03:24
Okies are officially in panic mode now. Just stopped at the store. All paper products are gone. No TP, paper towels, Kleenex, paper napkins - yet, strangely, the food products are still on shelves and look fully stocked. I don't understand this hoarding of paper products. Also noticed no one has been raiding the liquid bleach yet. Maybe people don't know the effectiveness of bleach water for disinfecting purposes? I have two gallons of bleach here at the house. Before Christmas, I was going to bleach pinecones for decorations, but never got around to it.  ::noworries::'
Oh, I saw two male shoppers in the store wearing masks.

Interesting. I went to pick up an order at Sams today,and they were out of  their paper towels....?

Too weird, simply cause of a bunched up paper towel in a trash bag will hold germs longer .
I pulled out all hand towels and small towels and set them on the corner of the sink. I can use then drop into the washer which can have clorox water sitting there waiting until run a load late in the day.

I also have come to the conclusion the drivers side of my car will be sparkling by the time this is over cause
I used 4 hand wipes on my hands and wiping down the inside of the drivers side today... simply cause my gloves are in the other car. And every time I got back in I did the routine. ::tippinghat::

Title: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Editorialist on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 15:14:32
I now feel with absolute certainty that why the Corona Virus is now hitting the United States so hard is because of the many sins of abomination this country has been committing against a Hoy and Righteous God this nation’s refusal to repent.  This has been an ongoing judgment of America which started a few years ago with destructive weather events absolutely unprecedented in the area of floods, tornados, droughts, wildfires, hurricanes which have destroyed over 60% of the land surface of this country along with violence, including too many shootings resulting in the death of thousands and now mysterious diseases such as this corona Virus.  Didn’t these same events happen in Egypt and Israel when they defied God and wallowed in detestable sins and practices?

Our leaders brag we are a determined and resourceful people and nothing can stop us from finding a solution to this and any other problem.  Well let me say this.  Is this not pride and arrogance flying in the face of a Holy God who can go completely opposite of a prideful and arrogant nation.  It is only God who can end this new plague on America and if He wants or allows it to continue absolutely no one including the Presidents, Congress or anyone else can stop i

Over the years we have become an arrogant and sinful nation with that pride and arrogance turning patriotism into a form of dangerous idolatry exemplified only too well by that devil’s child, Chuck Schumer.  We think we are a Christian nation when we most definitely are not although in the beginning of our nation we most certainly were but now are not.  If we were these terrible sins would not be committed against a Holy and Righteous God, a God who can express a love so real and unfathomable  it will never be fully understood but yet a God who hates sin and will do whatever necessary to destroy it and if necessary even bring death to those who refuse to repent..

If you want to make sure this new virus leaves the land please get saved and really repent of all your sins.  He will quickly forgive and restore the land to its original condition. God is the only answer to this and any other problem facing you and America. Repent and believe the Gospel
Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 15:53:57
I certainly do not mean to sound flip on this, but a serious question must be asked.

While you are quite possibly correct on covid19  as being part of ongoing judgement against America... as  well as all other professing Christian nations of the world, started by a non christian nation....

Do you truly feel God would grant the wishes/prayers of  a falling majority, even with new onescoming along?

You say... If you want to make sure this new virus leaves the land please get saved and really repent of all your sins.  He will quickly forgive and restore the land to its original condition. God is the only answer to this and any other problem facing you and America. Repent and believe the Gospel.

While very good advice for any and all, we all ,here, generally believe we are and have done so.

Even with that... statisticsarenotlooking sogood.

Christianity is the most adhered to religion in the United States, with 65% of polled American adults identifying themselves as Christian in 2019.

Keeping in mind this 65% would include the woman , from the south,who was asked about her religion and she calmly answered "I'm not Jewish so I am Christian." (was on a FOX news interview several years ago.)

This is down from 85% in 1990, 81.6% in 2001, and 12% lower than the 78% reported for 2012. About 45% of those polled claim to be members of a church congregation.

Yes, God is sorely displeased with us. I do not see it changing with the liberties people no longer will give up.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: soterion on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 16:15:22
Here in Lubbock. Texas Tech decided to have only online classes for some period of time after spring break. Weyland University and South Plains College are doing the same. No doubt Lubbock Christian University will follow suit.

Just this morning it was announced that the Big 12 basketball tournament is canceled. The same was said concerning the Big 10 and the SEC. The rest of the NCAA is expected to do the same.

Insanity...
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: soterion on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 16:17:32
Okies are officially in panic mode now. Just stopped at the store. All paper products are gone. No TP, paper towels, Kleenex, paper napkins - yet, strangely, the food products are still on shelves and look fully stocked. I don't understand this hoarding of paper products. Also noticed no one has been raiding the liquid bleach yet. Maybe people don't know the effectiveness of bleach water for disinfecting purposes? I have two gallons of bleach here at the house. Before Christmas, I was going to bleach pinecones for decorations, but never got around to it.  ::noworries::'
Oh, I saw two male shoppers in the store wearing masks.

I noticed the same. What good is it to have all of those paper products stocked up but be out of food? ::sarcasm::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 16:23:09
I'm on holidays again next week for March Break but I just received a memo saying that all schools in Ontario will be closed for two weeks following March Break, that will take us into April 4th.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 16:28:03
I think it is adequate to protect/isolate the elderly from others.  But not everything else.


Definitely much worse for the elderly and people that already suffer from respiratory illnesses. Apparently now we're hearing that kids are like rats, they're carriers and spreaders of the virus but don't necessarily show symptoms of illness.

Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 16:38:49
Ridiculous to even bring America into this discussion since the ALL of the things mentioned in the OP have been global events, none of which have been limited to America. Doesn't sound very much like a judgement against a nation, more along the lines of hyperbole.
Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 17:06:59
Ridiculous to even bring America into this discussion since the ALL of the things mentioned in the OP have been global events, none of which have been limited to America. Doesn't sound very much like a judgement against a nation, more along the lines of hyperbole.

Agreed.  It is ridiculous to assert this is a judgement against the USA.  Unless God hates Italy even more.  Or old people in general.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 17:07:56
Airline tickets are super cheap right now.  I was gonna drive to Orlando.  Now I am flying for spring break.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 17:24:42
Airline tickets are super cheap right now.  I was gonna drive to Orlando.  Now I am flying for spring break.


Do you fly out of Romulus?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 17:36:02
Nothing like 4 to 6 hours of breathing recycled air in a confined space with a couple hundred people you know nothing about including IF they are sick with the virus or not. An enclosed petri dish of airborne germs traveling at several hundred miles per hour.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 19:20:34
Democrats are trying to sneak/force abortion funding into the coronavirus bill.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 20:20:17
Somebody better appropriate a whole bunch more toilet paper!
Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 21:42:47
Yes, This doesn't look much like God's judgement on America.  It's just a virus.   I see some signs of bipartisan willingness to do something about it.   That's encouraging.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 21:43:10

Do you fly out of Romulus?

Metro, yes.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 21:44:06
Nothing like 4 to 6 hours of breathing recycled air in a confined space with a couple hundred people you know nothing about including IF they are sick with the virus or not. An enclosed petri dish of airborne germs traveling at several hundred miles per hour.

Highly filtered air.  Plane much much safer than any other place with lots of people.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 22:01:32
I read the air is filtered, BUT any mass transportation is advised against. Dr Mark Seigel on Fox and Friends this week advised against air travel. Close quarters, filthy surfaces and not a good place to be with coughers and sneezers even with filtrated air turnover.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 22:09:14
I read the air is filtered, BUT any mass transportation is advised against. Dr Mark Seigel on Fox and Friends this week advised against air travel. Close quarters, filthy surfaces and not a good place to be with coughers and sneezers even with filtrated air turnover.

I am not worried in the slightest.  If I was closer to 65 I might be.
Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 12, 2020 - 22:10:26
Yes, This doesn't look much like God's judgement on America.  It's just a virus.   I see some signs of bipartisan willingness to do something about it.   That's encouraging.

Close stuff, and cause runs on toilet paper.  I call it retarded.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 01:06:04
I'm bothered that the "Cancel Everything!" approach leaves the various talking heads with nothing to talk about *except* the Kung Flu.  So each of them harps on it from every conceivable angle with every possible guest, often giving inconsistent or contradictory "expert" advice.

Avid news-watchers are more likely to die from the stress than from the virus.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 01:08:53
... kids are like rats ...


Don't insult rats (http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/general-discussion-forum/rats-are-empathetic/msg1055157546/?topicseen#msg1055157546).
Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Dave_UK on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 04:07:47
Close stuff, and cause runs on toilet paper.  I call it retarded.


If we could see the microscopic entities that live in symbiosis with us - we would really take fright!  But life goes on - just occasionally the microbes make a more concerted effort and mutate beyond our calculation, and we suffer - didn't Solomon remark, in Ecclesiastes I think, "Time and chance govern all things."

   Here in the UK, they say our supermarkets are running short on loo rolls (oh, and pasta as well!).  Selfish people concerned about the well-being of "number one or their own immediate families"  panic-buying, are making it difficult for the older less mobile without easy transport. The current estimate here for the "duration of the crisis" is 2 to 3 months - imagine trying to find room for a couple of months stock in one's home of loo rolls etc - HOARDING!

   On our BBC news channel this morning I think I heard a mention that in the States,  they were considering shutting down gyms/swim pools etc - if they do it here, it will make a really major difference to some of our lives! The program illustrated 3 important things - one of which showed an "oldie" with a stick in their home, with a caption underneath "3 MONTHS" - eek! - incarcinated in one's own home!

   if it hadn't been for the ease of air travel etc - the impact of the crisis might not have been so bad - and we call it "progress". Never mind if little Greta Thunsberg and her "climate crisis" co-zealots get their way, we shall soon be back to the Stone Age almost!


  We will survive - well some of us will, I guess! Didn't someone remark that our planet was over-populated!!!  I don't think anyone has referred yet to the Apocalyptic horrors of the Tribulation - with massive loss of human life from various causes!   We know we are probably in"The Last Days" - but things aren't that bad yet!?
Title: Re: ONLY GOD CAN SRTOP SPREAD OF CORONA VIRUS
Post by: Johnb on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 06:17:20
Alan for once I agree with you!  Kind of makes me worry  ::smile::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 07:22:58
I understand this.

Panic will not help.

We can lock down the entire world... but to what end.... and for how long.

You never did tell us where you are from.... If here in the states you could get your test kit.

But once we are locked down, and our stock piles have dwindled, then we will be in the same situation as China without food.

Ia will have an inability to buy any even if it were available because we will not have electricity as it will be cut off because we have no money to pay for it.

You need to calm down and calmly tell folks that you believe you have a word from God and this is what it said....

And then lets all brainstorm on how we can protect ourselves.

BTW

How old are you. I am 73 and my mom in her 80s.. both with health issues. They say anyone over 60 has a greater chance of being one of the ones who dies if we get it.

If you are younger then that you need to look to your older neighbors and see what you can do to help them... maybe do shopping for them?

I will tell you this that this is a great way in the US to keep people from voting.... just sayin.
Hi Rella I am from New Zealand and I am a healthy 52years old.No major health issues at all.  We only have 5 cases from people coming back from Iran and Italy. Except for a few days where people was panic buying in Auckland its life as normal. Concerts have just today been stopped and Thank God for Donald Trump who stood up and shut down more of its boarders.

 In New Zealand Our prime minister has started to follow suit. The world needs a strong leaders now  and the USA and its strength, influence needs to pave the way for others to follow.
 




God bless you
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 07:26:45
For those in the population that are young, the stigma of the illness appears to be much worse than the symptoms. For instance, the isolation or quarantining ramifications appears to be much worse than the actual disease. This is what is driving the hoarding of toilet paper etc.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 07:41:06
I don't have enough tp for the next two weeks, so I had to order some coreless janitorial stuff from sam's.   Walmart is out in store.  Sams's is.  So are some competitors.  It's the TP apocalypse.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 07:48:25
And it’s all because of the quarantining possibilities, not the symptoms of the disease.

I don’t disagree with the precautions necessarily, but this could get way uglier than the disease itself. People losing paychecks etc.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:02:06
And it’s all because of the quarantining possibilities, not the symptoms of the disease.

I don’t disagree with the precautions necessarily, but this could get way uglier than the disease itself. People losing paychecks etc.

I disagree with the scope of the precautions.  The kids (rats) are carriers but don't really get sick, and no cases of child deaths.

I think the precautions should center on hospitals, retirement communities, assisted living facilities, nursing homes.  These are the people that are most likely to suffer from the Flu and/or Coronavirus.

11 of the deaths so far in the US were from one Seattle area nursing home.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:09:33
One of my grand daughters went to Zambia on a mission trip a week ago. They are returning early because of the spectre of travel bans etc. her mom, my daughter is a physical therapist in a nursing home and is required to self quarantine because of her daughter traveling abroad. Something not contemplated a week ago. The chain reaction of the panic appears to be ratcheting up daily or even hourly.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:22:00
One of my grand daughters went to Zambia on a mission trip a week ago. They are returning early because of the spectre of travel bans etc. her mom, my daughter is a physical therapist in a nursing home and is required to self quarantine because of her daughter traveling abroad. Something not contemplated a week ago. The chain reaction of the panic appears to be ratcheting up daily or even hourly.

As an engineer who looks at numbers, I find most of the decisions to be panic.  And most of the decisions don't even protect the most vulnerable portion of our population. 

With schools closed down, there will be people stressed with losing their jobs, vacations, or paychecks they can't afford because their kids are off for weeks of school they didn't plan.  If these are truly poor families, the kids may go without food they counted on the school to provide.

My kids have off an extra two weeks due to this mess.  Luckily, mine are older and can fend for themselves, so no work needs to be missed.  But I can work from home anyway.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:23:14
Went out last night to grab a few things including TP for my mom and ourselves. Walmart had dust on the shelves, we went to another "bargain" store and payed $13 for 8 rolls, we bought two of them. The stores were crazy and full of ill tempered lunatics that think the zombie apocalypse is happening. I can't imagine how people will be if and when we're faced with a genuine national crisis. One thing is for sure, the humanity displayed on the internet from the social justice camp was NOWHERE to be found.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:24:56
Went out last night to grab a few things including TP for my mom and ourselves. Walmart had dust on the shelves, we went to another "bargain" store and payed $13 for 8 rolls, we bought two of them. The stores were crazy and full of ill tempered lunatics that think the zombie apocalypse is happening. I can't imagine how people will be if and when we're faced with a genuine national crisis. One thing is for sure, the humanity displayed on the internet from the social justice camp was NOWHERE to be found.

With my kids being off, my TP supply was not enough, so I ordered janitorial grade from Sam's Club.  It was the only thing left.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:31:56
With my kids being off, my TP supply was not enough, so I ordered janitorial grade from Sam's Club.  It was the only thing left.
Those are the 10" rolls?
We still had about 12 rolls of Kirkland Paper Towels, I told the wife that was fine for me.  rofl
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:35:12
The toilet paper hoarding is a worldwide phenomenon- and it's weird. A woman I watch on youtube lives in Denmark and she's saying people there are freaking out about toilet paper and hoarding it.
Something about this reminds me of that old War of the Worlds panic. Kind of like a mind game being played on the entire world and we're all falling for it. Strange.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:40:58
Those are the 10" rolls?
We still had about 12 rolls of Kirkland Paper Towels, I told the wife that was fine for me.  rofl

1000 foot rolls, but I made sure it was two ply.  Not my preference but I don't want a bidet.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:44:48
I wonder, is using a bidet like taking the ice bucket challenge a few years ago, or is the water heated.

I guess with TO shortages, we could do what I used to do with our toddlers - take them out in the back yard and “hose ‘em off”, in the summer only BTW.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:48:41
I wonder, is using a bidet like taking the ice bucket challenge a few years ago, or is the water heated.

I guess with TO shortages, we could do what I used to do with our toddlers - take them out in the back yard and “hose ‘em off”, in the summer only BTW.

take a dump, and then take a shower.  but make sure the drain isn't clogged.   rofl rofl rofl rofl
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 08:58:17
I wonder, is using a bidet like taking the ice bucket challenge a few years ago, or is the water heated.

That all depends on what you want to spend. You can have a warm water bidet installed on your existing toilet, but that usually involves a plumber and an electrician. I bought the add on type that doesn't heat the water. Without getting too graphic, using the cold water isn't bad at all. You're not washing your entire bahookie. The spray nozzle is very small to target the exact area you need. I'm telling you, once you get used to using one, you never want to go back to toilet paper. I don't have a septic tank, but using a bidet and not pushing tons of toilet paper into the system is supposed to be helpful for those with septic tanks.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:01:33
I am waiting to see if I receive my auto shipment of TP on the 27th of this month.

I have a standing order for Cottonelle Ultra GentleCare Toilet Paper, 48 Double Rolls with Aloe and E, ::blushing::  12 Rolls, Pack of 4 (48 Rolls)

It is still showing in my shipment list... waiting to see.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:05:04
NOW I  have seen everything.

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

New Compressed Toilet Paper Tablet Coin Tissues 50 Pack with 5 Carrying Cases NW

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Compressed-Toilet-Paper-Tablet-Coin-Tissues-50-Pack-with-5-Carrying-Cases-NW/143501352532?hash=item216958de54:g:79QAAOSwDM9eZpZm
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:08:07
Price gouging but available

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=toilet%20paper&ssPageName=GSTL

I got some Lysol spray ...3 can pack yesterday for about $8 a can.. or a little more
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:10:38
I would like a pair of these 2020 commemorative earrings-

(https://i.imgur.com/qZirNsv.png)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:13:07
Sams club Member Mark Paper Towels are still available ON LINE

https://www.samsclub.com/p/mm-paper-towels-15-rolls-150-sheets/prod21231906?xid=plp_product_1_1
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:14:33
I would like a pair of these 2020 commemorative earrings-

(https://i.imgur.com/qZirNsv.png)

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Dang it.... How much are they?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:20:22
rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Dang it.... How much are they?

IDK, the earrings are already sold out, but the necklace is still available.

(https://i.imgur.com/ph7P9aq.png)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:24:18
Airline tickets are super cheap right now.  I was gonna drive to Orlando.  Now I am flying for spring break.


With the kids? Everything looks like it's closed.  ???
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:29:37

With the kids? Everything looks like it's closed.  ???

So far not Sea World.  And my accommodations are non-refundable at least as of now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:32:35
Hopefully ya’ll won’t be like the Griswalds and Wally World!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 09:42:32
Hopefully ya’ll won’t be like the Griswalds and Wally World!

We will sit by the pool if need be.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 15:23:02
Insanity. INSANITY plain and simple.

I went to the grocery store I hate to get some frozen vegetables, simply because my local market has such a lousy selection.

And decided I would pick up a few items while there.

First... I was able to buy 2 packages of Bounty paper towels.... 4 roll packages of double rolls, for $6.99 each less $1 each special.

But they were sold out of ground beef. I dont need any but one lady wanted to play an advanced order for it and they would not take it . They just told her to come tomorrow....

But all the empty shelves made it look like they were going out of business.

I did get a wide variety of veggies, and 2 bags of soup veggies but for the most part the freezer shelves for veggies were
empty.

Crazy



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 15:31:50
(https://i.imgur.com/Q1sNRED.png)




 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 18:41:15
Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh
The panic over this has gotten pretty crazy, especially when you consider that this virus is just a variant of the Common Cold.
Don't be an ass.  It's a "variant of the Common Cold" in the same way that Howitzers, AK-47s, and muzzle-loaders are "variants" of explosive-fired projectile weapons.
I'm certainly not trying to be.  I honestly think that the most dangerous thing about COVID-19 is mankind's over-the-top reaction to it, and the media doing their usual "fearmongering for ratings" thing.
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Alan on Fri Mar 13, 2020 - 23:47:09
Don't be an ass.  It's a "variant of the Common Cold" in the same way that Howitzers, AK-47s, and muzzle-loaders are "variants" of explosive-fired projectile weapons.
I'm certainly not trying to be.  I honestly think that the most dangerous thing about COVID-19 is mankind's over-the-top reaction to it, and the media doing their usual "fearmongering for ratings" thing.


And can you base what "think" with any facts? Is there science here or just opinion?

What we're seeing from the rest of the world is truly concerning, I only hope we're doing enough to try to prevent mass casualties.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 04:25:18
I don't have enough tp for the next two weeks, so I had to order some coreless janitorial stuff from sam's.   Walmart is out in store.  Sams's is.  So are some competitors.  It's the TP apocalypse.

Pretty much the same here in the UK.  A nearby Morrisons Supermarket said they were expecting some more in soon - BUT IT WOULD ALL BE GONE WITHIN 10 MINUTES

 "If the worst comes to the worst", we'll just have to manage with cut-up sheets of newspaper (hope the ink doesn't smudge!) - just as we did during the difficult times during WW2, without the benefit of the "civilised" amenities we now take for granted.  Something the "snowflake" younger generation never experienced!

Why the panic over TP?  Neither (to my knowledge) the C-virus, ordinary flu, nor a common cold cause "the runs"!

  Am more concerned about the recommended change of lifestyle for "oldies".  Thinking of suspending my gym/swim-pool membership for a couple of months till the risk of infection declines.  I normally need to catch 2 buses to reach the pool (confined space with bods coughing/sneezing possibly) to get to the pool 3 times a week.  A bit of swim exercise to help keep the creaky joints mobile.  Then there is the possibly buggy air/water in the pool hall itself - ah well, think I'll just have to do longer "constitutional walkies" for a while and skip the swim sessions!

  How dare I moan about a little inconvenience!  ::frown:: There are many really "disadvantaged" bods "out there", needing 24/7 care - by carers or relatives that may themselves become infected, with little chance of getting replacement "stand-ins"!  ::prayinghard::
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 06:30:49
Don't be an ass.  It's a "variant of the Common Cold" in the same way that Howitzers, AK-47s, and muzzle-loaders are "variants" of explosive-fired projectile weapons.
I'm certainly not trying to be.  I honestly think that the most dangerous thing about COVID-19 is mankind's over-the-top reaction to it, and the media doing their usual "fearmongering for ratings" thing.

Absolutely.

I hit a grocery yesterday and it was insane.

I merely was going in for some frozen veggies... one cannot existe on rice, as the side dish... and some canned veggies.

As it was... I could not find the canned veggie aisle. Seriously. I avoid this grocery but it was nearest and my local market has a poor selection.

So I find the frozen ones.  rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl I did get some limas, brussel sprouts and carots. There wa sone bag of "garlic" cauliflower left. and I got 2 bags of veggie soup veggies.

And all the 85% of he frozen food shelves were empty.

They did have an ample supply of likely 50 or more varieties of frozen pizza...

But the real thing that was insane is a huge meat case, when they have the butchers weigh out the ground beef and stuff was empty.

A lady ws asking when they would get more ground beef in. The butcher just shrugged and then said tomorrow... (today)
She said she wanted to place an order. He said to come tomorrow. He did not want to take an order. She was insistent.
I do not know if she did get to order cause I moved on

So Iget a call from a friend last evening that there is the first single case of covid19 in my county.... but she did not know
where.

It was mentioned on the morning news and the closest I can pinpoint is it is in my county just south of Pittsburgh, which is the neighboring county.

Well I am about 15 miles south..... ( yes so are others but)

Now I feel I best get to the market in an hour and pick up some mayo, eggs and mil cause no idea if it is my neighbor or an hours drive south to the other end of the county.

THIS IS why there is a lot of panic.

WE are not being told the truth.

AH, yesterday though, I was able to pick up 8 double rolls of bounty paper towel... I am in good shape, I think for TP.

I have 72 rolls and 48 to be delivered on the 27th... if Amazon fulfill the auto shipment... shipped every 2 months.

So glad I did not delay it this month like I had been planning  rofl

OH... a great discovery....
When at the grocery yesterday I picked up what I had never had.

Oreo cookies... Carrot Cake flavored with cream cheese filling flavored centers.

They are wonderful

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 08:43:18
So informative!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjUOpvmDE7k
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 09:25:50
Absolutely Mommydi. A Great resource.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 11:04:06
Getting tired of listening to all of the "experts" on this issue. So many varying studies and precautions that the only realistic measure is to exercise every precaution necessary and expect the worst case scenario, if that doesn't happen we may be wrong but at least we'll be healthy and wrong.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 21:03:07
Getting tired of listening to all of the "experts" on this issue. So many varying studies and precautions that the only realistic measure is to exercise every precaution necessary and expect the worst case scenario, if that doesn't happy we may be wrong but at least we'll be healthy and wrong.

Especially when Dr.Mark Siegal on Judge Jeanine said he was going to the gym right after the show.

He will use the Clorox wipes on the equipment and they work great . You place on on the handle and leave it for 4 minutes and it kills all the germs.

4 MINUTES? 

Judge Jeanine asked him if it was time for gloves. He said it is getting there.

HA! I have been using them for 3 days in the stores... No wait time , and certainly now 4 minutes  rofl
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 21:37:35
Personally I think the whole world is off their rocker. The entire global economy will grind to a halt probably by Tuesday or Wednesday. Most churches here have suspended services for two weeks. Schools WERE closing for one additional week after spring break, now it is two. Why even finish the year now. Every sporting event known to mankind is over and done with. And we barely have 40 deaths nationwide. In 2009, the H1N1 Flu killed 15,000 Americans and half a million worldwide without even a Kleenex shortage or even talk of lengthy nationwide school closings. By comparison that should have been the panic time, not this thing. By comparison, we should now be living in an abandoned post apocalyptic world similar to the movie Thunderdome. We are out of our minds people! This all happened in literally one short week. What in the name of Waylon Jennings is going on! If the panic accelerates this coming week like it did last week, we’re in deep doo doo folks. We don’t need school closings, we need a media blackout to stop ginning this up exponentially each day. The Trump Katrina thing may have worked and we are falling for it! We only have perceived shortages because of hording now, heck if enough of the economy shuts down, we could be facing food and fuel shortages for real. And job losses like we haven’t seen in a LONG time. Those rooting for economic disaster to bring political change may get their wish if we let them. Go to work, be as normal as possible, shop, eat out, etc. and use your freakin’ heads. If you get the virus, you will likely be fine unless you are 85. If you ARE 85 or you are responsible for an 85 year old, use a little more of your head and common sense.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 22:17:59
Especially when Dr.Mark Siegal on Judge Jeanine said he was going to the gym right after the show.

He will use the Clorox wipes on the equipment and they work great . You place on on the handle and leave it for 4 minutes and it kills all the germs.

4 MINUTES? 

Judge Jeanine asked him if it was time for gloves. He said it is getting there.

HA! I have been using them for 3 days in the stores... No wait time , and certainly now 4 minutes  rofl

Ummm, so when I wipe down the handle of my shopping cart, then put my hands right on it, it's still coated with germs because I didn't wait 4 minutes?  ::doh2::
Speaking of the store-
I just got back from a little run to my small grocery store. The evening manager told me they had $187,000 in sales yesterday and their usual sales run about 80k a day. They were stocking fast and furious, but still not a single package of TP on the shelves.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 14, 2020 - 22:32:42
Getting tired of listening to all of the "experts" on this issue. So many varying studies and precautions that the only realistic measure is to exercise every precaution necessary and expect the worst case scenario, if that doesn't happy we may be wrong but at least we'll be healthy and wrong.

And we should all take measures so that this doesn't set in-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmQwL6qiByo
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 08:40:07
OK, now it’s officially weird. This morning at 7:30 my wife and I went to Albertsons to pickup a few things since we didn’t make it yesterday. We got there at 7:30 since our church service was canceled. We walked in to a store pretty much empty of normal staples. No meat, no bread, no eggs, no dried beans, sparse canned vegetables and a decimated produce section, and of course no paper products. We went to another store across town of another company. it was somewhat better stocked, though no paper goods, we got the last package of ground beef. They had two checkers open and the line was 80 yards long. (I stepped it off out of curiosity). Never seen anything like it. With all the people it was total silence. people were dumbstruck and bewildered. The preview of the reality of socialism was not pretty. Everday the past week has brought new surprises. The toilet paper shortage is annoying, but the food  shortages are going to be downright scary. We heard their was a knifing at Sam’s last night.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 08:52:27
Jaime, ground beef is actually what I ran to the store for last night and it was gone. OTOH, there was an abundance of chicken and pork.

The shortages in my store-

Paper products
Ground beef
Canned soup
Bottled juice in the refrigerated section, but not the bottled juice on shelves - plenty of that.
Bottled water was about half gone, but still plenty.

I'm going to check out Braum's and/or the German meat market for ground beef.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 09:14:56
I really was shocked at the look on people’s faces and the dead silence as we all pitifully rummaged through the  artichokes and pig’s feet and sardines type items.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 09:22:24
I really was shocked at the look on people’s faces and the dead silence as we all pitifully rummaged through the  artichokes and pig’s feet and sardines type items.

 rofl

Well, I'm thankful we Okies haven't panicked to that degree - yet.

You know, they keep saying how bad corona is so bad for the economy - and it is - but my area grocery stores, Target/Walmart, hardware stores, and dollar stores are doing BOOMING business! I drove past a Costco and Sam's yesterday that had no parking places available and cars were circling the lots waiting for openings. Reminds me of Black Friday.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 09:45:54
The selfish panicked hoarding and the occasional literal violent conflicts over items just shows the moral rot in post-Christian America and other post-Christian countries.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 09:49:16
Is God powerful enough to protect churchgoers from Coronavirus?

Apparently not in the minds of the leadership of many churches who have given in to the hysteria of the herd.

But on a positive note, Buff should be happy, many of us cannot go listen to hirelings today.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 10:06:48
Mommydi, it wasn’t this bad yesterday. Each day this madness continues, the shortages appear to be escalating. We have woke to a new world every day this week.

I had resigned myself to peanut butter and crackers. No such luck  today. The media HAS to pipe down!!!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 10:42:31
It's utter mayhem out there but I'm getting building materials so I can get some work done while I'm off, Home Depot and Lowe's are both deadly quiet. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 10:54:38
Mommydi, it wasn’t this bad yesterday. Each day this madness continues, the shortages appear to be escalating. We have woke to a new world every day this week.

I had resigned myself to peanut butter and crackers. No such luck  today. The media HAS to pipe down!!!
Breadline Bernie says this kind of thing is good. According to him, long lines for food show there's still some food left to be had. It was kind of funny to see all the ground beef gone yesterday, but all the chicken and pork practically untouched. Okies must love their hamburgers and chili.

Actually, I don't think there's a food shortage, just stores having a difficult time getting shelves stocked. Last night, at my little Neighborhood Market, the aisles were crowded with pallets piled high with food stuff, and employees trying to restock shelves as fast as they could. Some stores that have been open 24/7, are saying they're going to be closing for a few hours each night now, to clean and get things restocked. I have a friend who works at Whole Foods. She's saying the same - there's no shortage of food. The employees just can't keep up with the high demand and get shelves stocked fast enough.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 10:56:24
It's utter mayhem out there but I'm getting building materials so I can get some work done while I'm off, Home Depot and Lowe's are both deadly quiet.

It's a bit on the cool and damp side here, but I want to get out this afternoon and do a little spring cleaning on the patio. If Home Depot isn't busy, I may stop in for a few early plants for some containers.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 11:10:35
I agree that there really isn’t any real food shortages, but if everyone picks up 30% more in a hoarding frenzy, it can throw our whole system out of whack until the distribution side adjusts. If a terrorist could figure out how to cripple the trucking industry, a lot of people would starve inside of a couple of weeks. We really do exist on a razors edge balance on supply and demand or more accurately deliverability. We have plenty of supply. This thin margin was starkly visible at the store this morning.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 11:22:26
You're right, Jaime. The media is fanning the flames of panic - especially when they say idiotic things like we could be looking at "millions" of dead Americans. Of course, people will start trying to hoard things to protect their families for the coming apocalypse. To me, what's more scary than the virus is watching how easily people are manipulated into a panic.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 12:03:59
I feel like in the last few days I have stepped into a bizarro world wormhole or alternate reality.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 13:16:56
You're right, Jaime. The media is fanning the flames of panic - especially when they say idiotic things like we could be looking at "millions" of dead Americans. Of course, people will start trying to hoard things to protect their families for the coming apocalypse. To me, what's more scary than the virus is watching how easily people are manipulated into a panic.

Not just people.  Churches.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 13:34:45
Yes, I think all these precautions may be good, but the more drastic the precautions the more the panic. The more the panic the more to panic ABOUT. The disease may not be as bad as the economic collapse the panic and hoarding is causing.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 13:48:28
Jaime, ground beef is actually what I ran to the store for last night and it was gone. OTOH, there was an abundance of chicken and pork.

The shortages in my store-

Paper products
Ground beef
Canned soup
Bottled juice in the refrigerated section, but not the bottled juice on shelves - plenty of that.
Bottled water was about half gone, but still plenty.

I'm going to check out Braum's and/or the German meat market for ground beef.

At my smaller local market

Chicken was totally gone.

Yet they had their usual rotisseries???  Diffferent case.Not seen?

Still had several small hams and I got a couple of ham steaks.

Ground beef was gone, as was most every thing so picked over you would be afraid to put it near your mouth.

But the counter where the butcher actually cuts... to the side of the meat display case... 4 ft away???
Was apan... nearly full ... with I would guesstimate  a mnimum of 25 or 30 lbs ground beef.

So I got 4 - 1 lb packages, and they had stuffed pork chops and meatballs and filets on display plus more.

It was the bread shelves. Totally empty.Except for 5 packages of english muffins.

But was very pleased to still  find bread along the the shelves below the deli case.A a lot of it cause again... people,in their panic were not thinking.

Though canned goods and veggies were plentiful, as were soups  and beef stews and corned beef hash
and tuna etc.. and canned chicken.

Our refrigerated juices were plentiful.... but a shortage of potatos.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 13:53:00
Mommydi, it wasn’t this bad yesterday. Each day this madness continues, the shortages appear to be escalating. We have woke to a new world every day this week.

I had resigned myself to peanut butter and crackers. No such luck  today. The media HAS to pipe down!!!

They announced last night the the local 24/7 groceries were all closing at 10 or 11 and reopening at 7 to allow the workers to restock the shelves.

I did not go today to see where the shortages still might be,but could be the grocers will pace this???

Peanut butter and grape jelly sandwiches are wonderful.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 13:55:30
It's a bit on the cool and damp side here, but I want to get out this afternoon and do a little spring cleaning on the patio. If Home Depot isn't busy, I may stop in for a few early plants for some containers.

I need to move. I woke up to a light snow on the ground this AM
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 14:07:03
Not just people.  Churches.

TC, I wouldn't be upset about churches canceling for a couple of weeks.

Here's why-

In 1986, our area was hit with a terrible flood. Our previous home was flooded to the point of being displaced, along with many others in the town. Our church (the local church of Christ) was built on higher ground, lol, and was not flooded at all. The town officials banned us all from coming in because it was dangerous. I can't remember how long it took for the water to recede and residents were allowed in, but we did go about three Sundays without meeting at the church building. But you know what? We all used it as an opportunity to check on each other, help each other, and pray for each other. One man from our church got on the phone and called churches of Christ across the country and got donations for us - then brought checks to each of us since most of us had no flood insurance. The first Sunday we were all back together at the church building, and worship started, there wasn't a dry eye in the place. It felt so good to be back. In a weird way, not being able to meet for a few weeks strengthened us. Look at this situation the same way. Staying apart for a short time to protect especially the older members can turn out to be a good thing in the long run.
The only gripe I had about the whole situation was the first Sunday we couldn't meet at the building, a couple of the elders got in a row boat and rowed to the building in the dark of the early morning and lit a candle in the building and held a small worship service because "no one will tell us we can't assemble to worship!!" THAT was absolutely ridiculous.
Besides that - it all worked out and the short time away from each other ended up drawing us all closer together than we had been.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 14:26:55
TC, I wouldn't be upset about churches canceling for a couple of weeks.

Here's why-

In 1986, our area was hit with a terrible flood. Our previous home was flooded to the point of being displaced, along with many others in the town. Our church (the local church of Christ) was built on higher ground, lol, and was not flooded at all. The town officials banned us all from coming in because it was dangerous. I can't remember how long it took for the water to recede and residents were allowed in, but we did go about three Sundays without meeting at the church building. But you know what? We all used it as an opportunity to check on each other, help each other, and pray for each other. One man from our church got on the phone and called churches of Christ across the country and got donations for us - then brought checks to each of us since most of us had no flood insurance. The first Sunday we were all back together at the church building, and worship started, there wasn't a dry eye in the place. It felt so good to be back. In a weird way, not being able to meet for a few weeks strengthened us. Look at this situation the same way. Staying apart for a short time to protect especially the older members can turn out to be a good thing in the long run.
The only gripe I had about the whole situation was the first Sunday we couldn't meet at the building, a couple of the elders got in a row boat and rowed to the building in the dark of the early morning and lit a candle in the building and held a small worship service because "no one will tell us we can't assemble to worship!!" THAT was absolutely ridiculous.
Besides that - it all worked out and the short time away from each other ended up drawing us all closer together than we had been.

To me it is about leadership following hysteria and the herd.  That is my issue with it.  Had it been a flood or something viable instead of fear of what MAY happen.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 15:24:42
I wonder what happens when the deaths from Corona approach 10% of what H1N1 did. We will all be living in space suits by then according to what has happened so quickly this last week. If we approach 10% of the H1N1 deaths in this country, we might never convene a school classroom again. And toilet paper will be a museum display for future generations.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 16:09:12
Fauci says......

https://www.newsmax.com/us/fauci-travel-us-restrictions/2020/03/15/id/958397/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM97922_03152020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010102so2w0n
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 16:15:29
The UK says...

UK Plans to Tell Elderly to Self-Isolate Up to 4 Months

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/elderly-uk-isolation-quarantine/2020/03/15/id/958387/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM97922_03152020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010102so2w0n
Title: Re: White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations -
Post by: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Sun Mar 15, 2020 - 18:51:51
And can you base what "think" with any facts? Is there science here or just opinion?
Totally science - I've been researching this virus in my basement-laboratory.  ::crackup::  I'm sure you've been doing the same. ::rolling::

Sarcasm to the side, it's my opinion, which (like yours) is based on what I've read and heard and seen, which includes scholarly articles, news releases from the WHO and other relevant agencies, and conversations with medical professionals in my area.  I probably started a month before you, because my wife has family in Asia.  I was sending face masks and sanitizer there in early February.

What we're seeing from the rest of the world is truly concerning, I only hope we're doing enough to try to prevent mass casualties.
For the first time in my life, I'm seeing corporations acting responsibly to curb mis-behavior by the masses.  Rather than just exploiting them for a buck.  So that's encouraging.

On the other hand, today I went to 5 grocery stores, just to get my regular groceries. =/

At the Asian market, they were out of rice.

At the Mexican grocery, they were out of beans.

At the white supermarket, they were out of toilet paper.

I leave you to draw your own conclusions from that.  ::lookaround::

Jarrod
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 04:04:38
Most of us pay our Supermarket bills by using our "plastic cards"  - they have all our card ID details, when and what we have just bought!  So, why can't they use that info to prevent gross panic buying of umpteen packs of loo rolls, or whatever!  I suppose a  "get-around" would be, for the "hoarders" to visit other supermarkets and raid their stock as well!  ::lookaround::

 I think one of our major UK retailers has rationed things saying "no more than 4 items of the same sort!".  But if the retailers would collaborate - some sensible rationing might be implemented - so that "there is enough to go around for all of us!".  We managed during WW2 with our "ration books" - let's hope we don't have to resort to methods like that again - imagine "coupons" for the purchase of packs of loo rolls etc,! ::frown::

 Re the "loo roll apocalypse"  - we do seem to have sufficient "Kitchen Rolls"  but they are mostly 2-ply, which would quickly block a loo when flushed, if used in place of TP - I hope it won't be necessary to try and separate the 2-ply sheets - else it will be back to the old UK WW2 routine of cutting up newspapers in lieu of tp - but that may also pose flushing-away problems!

 Oh "Civilization" - what have we come to!? ::eek::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 04:36:47
Most of us pay our Supermarket bills by using our "plastic cards"  - they have all our card ID details, when and what we have just bought!  So, why can't they use that info to prevent gross panic buying of umpteen packs of loo rolls, or whatever!  I suppose a  "get-around" would be, for the "hoarders" to visit other supermarkets and raid their stock as well!  ::lookaround::

 I think one of our major UK retailers has rationed things saying "no more than 4 items of the same sort!".  But if the retailers would collaborate - some sensible rationing might be implemented - so that "there is enough to go around for all of us!".  We managed during WW2 with our "ration books" - let's hope we don't have to resort to methods like that again - imagine "coupons" for the purchase of packs of loo rolls etc,! ::frown::

 Re the "loo roll apocalypse"  - we do seem to have sufficient "Kitchen Rolls"  but they are mostly 2-ply, which would quickly block a loo when flushed, if used in place of TP - I hope it won't be necessary to try and separate the 2-ply sheets - else it will be back to the old UK WW2 routine of cutting up newspapers in lieu of tp - but that may also pose flushing-away problems!

 Oh "Civilization" - what have we come to!? ::eek::

I was at the supermarket at just after 8am, nearly all of the customers were calm, and all that had run out was hand sanitizer wich has been the case for some time. Most of the shoppers were older then me(I am in my early 60's) and many buying quite a lot, which is sort of understandable as the govt is going to advise those over 70 and those who are younger but with health conditions to stay in soon, for up to 4 months. Not everyone has family or friends nearby to shop for them, although LOADS of people countrywide are organising groups to help those shut in to get shopping, medication etc. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 07:09:10
As of this AM. Pittsburgh

They are considering cancelling the Pittsburgh Marathon, Scheculed for early May, and having the participants run virtually by way of their treadmills..... posting their start and stop times.  ::whistle::

Yet early May is still the scheduled opening of Kennywood amusement Park... A well known one around the country.  ::frustrated::

There are to be not public gatherings of more then 250 people, but at the same time some concert or show of somekind was announced for mid April ::doh::

While all Allegheny county restaurants have been ordered to serve no people in the restaurant, only by carry out or delivery. ::shrug::

Yet the squirrel are mating and the Canadian geese are flying over head as if nothing is amiss.

Ah they also request that all non essential businesses self close for 2 weeks. That includes hair salons and nail salons. ::eek::

This is sheer lunacy as we are told this think will not peek until late April into May.

What do they truly think 2 weeks now will accomplish other then the schools can disinfect.

Here is the biggie though  ::clappingoverhead::

Today they are going to the trial oif the first inoculations of several hundred in Seattle, they annonced.  ::nodding::

They will use younger people. (Note- not the ones more susceptible with complications like the ole and compromised)  ::shrug::

It will not ause any outbreaks in the people receiving these shots cause there is none of the virus used to make them???

If effective, then it will take 1 year to 18 months for this to become available to the public.  ::headscratch::

If not effecttive ? ::lookaround::

So 2 questions...

How long do you think the market can last? Especially in light of the Fed dropping interest to near zero , yesterday, on a Sunday !!!!!  and futures dropping 1000 points when they did that???

How long do you think they will take to get the shots ready for the public after their trial is up? They should get them ready now IMO so when they say go, those of us still alive can get in line.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 11:56:10
Here in the U.S., after a month of coronavirus spreading across our country, we have only 61 deaths. We're doing ok.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 12:02:58
I was at the supermarket at just after 8am, nearly all of the customers were calm, and all that had run out was hand sanitizer wich has been the case for some time. Most of the shoppers were older then me(I am in my early 60's) and many buying quite a lot, which is sort of understandable as the govt is going to advise those over 70 and those who are younger but with health conditions to stay in soon, for up to 4 months. Not everyone has family or friends nearby to shop for them, although LOADS of people countrywide are organising groups to help those shut in to get shopping, medication etc.
Are citizens there blaming your PM for his handling of the situation?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 14:14:14
Are citizens there blaming your PM for his handling of the situation?

I have heard some other countries re blaming Trump for it cause of the travel ban.

The UK will soon enough.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 14:41:13
The Catholic churches in the area are stopping masses as of this week.

They said they told parishioners they did not have to attend , but evidently people still came. rofl

They will continue to hear confessions, though.

My church has not cancelled.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 15:19:12
Here in the U.S., after a month of coronavirus spreading across our country, we have only 61 deaths. We're doing ok.


Keep in mind that other countries were tallying up confirmations for quite some time before people starting dying, hoping the 4200 cases in the US don't follow the global statistics, but we can't be sure at this time. Either way, the numbers are growing quickly in North America now and like others have said, we're about 2 weeks behind Italy in terms of outbreak.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 16:22:24

Keep in mind that other countries were tallying up confirmations for quite some time before people starting dying, hoping the 4200 cases in the US don't follow the global statistics, but we can't be sure at this time. Either way, the numbers are growing quickly in North America now and like others have said, we're about 2 weeks behind Italy in terms of outbreak.
There are some major differences between the US and Italy that not many people are discussing - that I've seen.

The most infected area of Italy is northern Italy, where the largest population of Chinese live/work. As geographically small as Italy is compared to the US, they have/had more direct flights from Wuhan than we had. Italy has three direct flights daily from the Wuhan airport alone. The US had two (San Fran and NCY) and those were only seasonal flights - not daily like Italy. Canada has no direct flights from Wuhan, BTW. The Chinese population of Italy (especially northern Italy where the highest infections and deaths are occurring) has exploded in the last 10 years.
The highest death rates come from people who have traveled to and from Wuhan, or had direct contact with people who had traveled to and from Wuhan. Italy is now considered the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak. No wonder with so many direct flights in and out of Wuhan, plus their explosive growth in Chinese residents.
By taking precautions, I don't think North America will experience the same devastating outcome they're experiencing in northern Italy.

Besides-
The longer a virus is around, the weaker it tends to be, so that's in our favor here, too. The longer we can avoid exposure - the better the outcome.

Here's the direct flight from Wuhan map-
https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-wuhan-wuh

Also, see how Russia has no direct flights from Wuhan? Russia has a very low coronavirus infection rate. They had no direct flights and locked down early.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 17:28:09
Well, the state of PA is not exactly on a lock down but it might as well be.

PA Gov Wolf announced that all non essential businesses are to shut down, statewide at midnight.

Groceries and Pharmacies will stay open.

76 people have tested positive in the state.

He expects this to last 2 weeks.

Though state parks will remain open for now. ::pondering::

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 17:31:15
Lone GOP congressman delays House coronavirus relief bill from moving to Senate

https://www.yahoo.com/news/lone-gop-congressman-delays-house-182400506.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 17:33:08
Has it occurred to anyone that our Bemark seemingly was correct?

I feel we owe him an apology, if, he is even reading this now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 17:36:32
There are some major differences between the US and Italy that not many people are discussing - that I've seen.

The most infected area of Italy is northern Italy, where the largest population of Chinese live/work. As geographically small as Italy is compared to the US, they have/had more direct flights from Wuhan than we had. Italy has three direct flights daily from the Wuhan airport alone. The US had two (San Fran and NCY) and those were only seasonal flights - not daily like Italy. Canada has no direct flights from Wuhan, BTW. The Chinese population of Italy (especially northern Italy where the highest infections and deaths are occurring) has exploded in the last 10 years.
The highest death rates come from people who have traveled to and from Wuhan, or had direct contact with people who had traveled to and from Wuhan. Italy is now considered the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak. No wonder with so many direct flights in and out of Wuhan, plus their explosive growth in Chinese residents.
By taking precautions, I don't think North America will experience the same devastating outcome they're experiencing in northern Italy.

Besides-
The longer a virus is around, the weaker it tends to be, so that's in our favor here, too. The longer we can avoid exposure - the better the outcome.

Here's the direct flight from Wuhan map-
https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-wuhan-wuh (https://www.flightconnections.com/flights-from-wuhan-wuh)

Also, see how Russia has no direct flights from Wuhan? Russia has a very low coronavirus infection rate. They had no direct flights and locked down early.


Not sure the relevancy of how it got into the country. This is no longer about travel, it's here and it's spreading around at a very fast rate.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:02:23
Has it occurred to anyone that our Bemark seemingly was correct?

I feel we owe him an apology, if, he is even reading this now.
.
I see a lot of hysteria.  I see precautions.  But I don't see a lot of death.  There are 100 deaths due to auto accidents everyday in the US.   About the same number per day average of flu deaths even with vaccines.  Somewhere near 700 minimum a day for medical errors.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:12:35
  But I don't see a lot of death.


Unfortunately, you will.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:16:03

Unfortunately, you will.

As much as medical errors? 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:29:30

Unfortunately, you will.

During the 2017-2018 flu season, 1,000 Americans were dying per week.  If we start surpassing that number by leaps and bounds - I'll buy that we're in serious trouble. There were nearly 80k deaths that flu season here in the U.S., including many pediatric deaths, but none of this hysteria was present. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'm not digging my grave in preparation of numbers that big.
PLUS, the warmer weather is coming and this virus can't live on warm surfaces, PLUS viruses weaken the longer they run. This virus will slow down and death numbers will decrease. Why didn't the whole U.S. totally lock down when we were losing 1,000 per week during the 2017-2018 flu season? I don't buy the story being pushed of "millions" of Americans dead over this virus.

That being said, if it bites me, y'all can find me at this cemetery in my parents' family plot-

(https://i.imgur.com/hN8klCS.png)

This reminds me, I never picked out my casket and stuff.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:33:45
.
I see a lot of hysteria.  I see precautions.  But I don't see a lot of death.  There are 100 deaths due to auto accidents everyday in the US.   About the same number per day average of flu deaths even with vaccines.  Somewhere near 700 minimum a day for medical errors.

Yea, but it ain't over.

The mass pandemonium and now the forced closing of businesses all in an effort to control things.

He may have been onto the warning to prevent the mass deaths.

All I know is they are shutting down my state for all non  essential businesses for 2 weeks or longer.
But keeping state parks open  ::whistle::

Catholic churches have cut out mass... But mine is still a go if you want to come....
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:36:30


This reminds me, I never picked out my casket and stuff.

I have my shelf in my permanent mausoleum, opening and closing and lettering all paid.

Even a beautiful oak casket all paid for.

But this week I best get my clothing ready....

Thanks for the reminder. ::tippinghat::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 18:51:40
I have my shelf in my permanent mausoleum, opening and closing and lettering all paid.

Even a beautiful oak casket all paid for.

But this week I best get my clothing ready....

Thanks for the reminder. ::tippinghat::

That sounds lovely. I may do some online retail therapy by shopping for a casket. I had an appointment at the hair salon for some metallic highlights. Wonder if she'll cancel? I want to go out looking nice.
Just got an email from the city. Our little city has now banned all public gatherings of 50+ people. Also, if any smaller gathering has 10 high risk people, that gathering is banned. (In other words, 10 senior citizens can't get together for anything)
However, it was nice of them to waive the add on fee they charge us for paying our water bill online.

I'm not hurting financially over this, but there will be SO many people around here who are and it hurts my heart for them. Maybe we can make some food donations to the local food bank (if it stays open??)


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 16, 2020 - 19:55:44
That sounds lovely. I may do some online retail therapy by shopping for a casket. I had an appointment at the hair salon for some metallic highlights. Wonder if she'll cancel? I want to go out looking nice.
Just got an email from the city. Our little city has now banned all public gatherings of 50+ people. Also, if any smaller gathering has 10 high risk people, that gathering is banned. (In other words, 10 senior citizens can't get together for anything)
However, it was nice of them to waive the add on fee they charge us for paying our water bill online.

I'm not hurting financially over this, but there will be SO many people around here who are and it hurts my heart for them. Maybe we can make some food donations to the local food bank (if it stays open??)

I just posted the full article in the political forum.

This should make us all mad as a hornet.

https://canadafreepress.com/print_friendly/the-plan-for-the-internal-destruction-of-the-usa-was-way-too-easy
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 05:44:31
About the same number per day average of flu deaths even with vaccines.  Somewhere near 700 minimum a day for medical errors.

Hmm, perhaps you should have mentioned this little detail when you were letting everybody know how great the USA medical system is vs NHS.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 06:10:10
I'm almost two months away from being "elderly" per the medical definition, so I'm not very worried about the virus.

I'm more concerned about the empty store shelves.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 07:23:51
Hmm, perhaps you should have mentioned this little detail when you were letting everybody know how great the USA medical system is vs NHS.

Oh stuff it.  You are too much of a coward to even say where you are from.

NHS has their share of deaths due to medical errors.  By some estimates, at about the same rate.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 07:46:19
If it’s government run, it will be higher level of incompetence and mistakes. Doesn’t matter which government. If it’s a communist government, they will just lie to pad the statistics.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 07:57:17
Hmm, perhaps you should have mentioned this little detail when you were letting everybody know how great the USA medical system is vs NHS.

Ill take our over that of Italy's NHS.  ::tippinghat::  186,994 cases and 330 deaths. Population 60,487,167

Ill take ours and our government over that of China. 80,881 cases and 3226 deaths. Population 1,437,722,468

USA      4744 cases... 93 total deaths.  Population 330,435,890

Tell us AVZ... How many deaths in your country?

Why even poor Singapore....is reported to have 186, 994 cases with 7477 total deaths out of a population of 5,836,979 as of Tuesday, March 17, 2020,

the poor country... not quite twice the population of the US but people seem to be dieing of....And at a higher rate then China... not that I believe what is reported out of China.

Not a great example for NHC now is it.....

Shall I do every country? Might take a while... but I will if you want me to.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:25:54
If you need it.....

Still available as of this moment

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Rolls-Toilet-Paper-Bulk-Bath-Tissue-Bathroom-White-Soft-4-Ply-80g-Roll-USA/324102260969?_trkparms=aid%3D555021%26algo%3DPL.SIMRVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190711100440%26meid%3D31f4a1024bdc46d38e10c43b6252d00c%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D12%26rkt%3D14%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D283817755910%26itm%3D324102260969%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplRVIAMLv5WebWithPLRVIOnTopCombiner&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:36:34
Ill take our over that of Italy's NHS.  ::tippinghat::  186,994 cases and 330 deaths. Population 60,487,167

Ill take ours and our government over that of China. 80,881 cases and 3226 deaths. Population 1,437,722,468

USA      4744 cases... 93 total deaths.  Population 330,435,890

Tell us AVZ... How many deaths in your country?

Why even poor Singapore....is reported to have 186, 994 cases with 7477 total deaths out of a population of 5,836,979 as of Tuesday, March 17, 2020,

the poor country... not quite twice the population of the US but people seem to be dieing of....And at a higher rate then China... not that I believe what is reported out of China.

Not a great example for NHC now is it.....

Shall I do every country? Might take a while... but I will if you want me to.

For Singapore, I found 243 cases but 0 deaths.  What is your source?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:40:19
If you need it.....

Still available as of this moment

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Rolls-Toilet-Paper-Bulk-Bath-Tissue-Bathroom-White-Soft-4-Ply-80g-Roll-USA/324102260969?_trkparms=aid%3D555021%26algo%3DPL.SIMRVI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20190711100440%26meid%3D31f4a1024bdc46d38e10c43b6252d00c%26pid%3D100752%26rk%3D12%26rkt%3D14%26mehot%3Dco%26sd%3D283817755910%26itm%3D324102260969%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplRVIAMLv5WebWithPLRVIOnTopCombiner&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982

Rella, did you notice the pics on that TP listing?  rofl

(https://i.imgur.com/Oa9pCMe.png)


Don't know whether to laugh or cry. smh

Asians send the world a deadly virus. The world freaks out and wants to hoard toilet paper. Asians sell us boatloads of toilet paper.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:45:53
I'm almost two months away from being "elderly" per the medical definition, so I'm not very worried about the virus.

I'm more concerned about the empty store shelves.

I'm not quite sure how old you are, NorrinRadd, but I was thinking (from something you once posted) you are about a year younger than me? I'm still considered "middle aged"  - not elderly. Doesn't "elderly" kick in at 65?  ::shrug:: I think we're still a few years away from being considered elderly. (If I'm wrong, please be quiet about it  rofl )

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 08:48:09
I'm not quite sure how old you are, NorrinRadd, but I was thinking (from something you once posted) you are about a year younger than me? I'm still considered "middle aged"  - not elderly. Doesn't "elderly" kick in at 65?  ::shrug:: I think we're still a few years away from being considered elderly. (If I'm wrong, please be quiet about it  rofl )

65 is where the mortality rate jettisons upward.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 09:49:18
Hmm, perhaps you should have mentioned this little detail when you were letting everybody know how great the USA medical system is vs NHS.

They care more. When you're too weak to even stand on your own, they help you right off to the hospital, or wherever....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKek0Y30Ctw
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 10:05:48
Shall I do every country? Might take a while... but I will if you want me to.

Yes please do.
You seem to have a problem with numbers. Its very entertaining.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 10:10:34
Oh stuff it.  You are too much of a coward to even say where you are from.

NHS has their share of deaths due to medical errors.  By some estimates, at about the same rate.

USA = 700 minimum a day
UK = 700 estimated a year

Yeah...that's about the same rate.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 10:17:12
Yes please do.
You seem to have a problem with numbers. Its very entertaining.

You are simply so weird  ::rolling::

They are not my numbers.... but later,  I will work on it just for you.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 10:27:46
USA = 700 minimum a day
UK = 700 estimated a year

Yeah...that's about the same rate.

US  300.25 million people and  250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors.

Your 700 deaths are adverse drug reactions.

A new study has revealed an estimated 237 million medication errors occur in the NHS in England every year, and avoidable adverse drug reactions (ADRs) cause hundreds of deaths. Researchers from the Universities of Sheffield, York and Manchester report that an estimated 712 per year deaths result from avoidable ADRs.Feb 23, 2018

NHS medication errors contribute to as many as 22,000 deaths a year, major report shows

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-medication-errors-deaths-prescription-drugs-jeremy-hunt-york-university-health-a8224226.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 10:30:18
USA = 700 minimum a day
UK = 700 estimated a year

Yeah...that's about the same rate.

You read from the wrong source.  If you are going to argue, at least do a little research.  The 700 a year number is from medicine errors not medical errors.

Here's a source (admittedly it's a bit old, but so is the John Hopkins study on the US):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13487/NHS-causes-40-000-deaths-year.html

Official number was about 41,650.  UK has a fifth of the population of the US.  And I am sure this doesn't include numbers related to lack of care due to how NHS dispenses medical care. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:30:07
You read from the wrong source.  If you are going to argue, at least do a little research.  The 700 a year number is from medicine errors not medical errors.

Here's a source (admittedly it's a bit old, but so is the John Hopkins study on the US):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13487/NHS-causes-40-000-deaths-year.html

Official number was about 41,650.  UK has a fifth of the population of the US.  And I am sure this doesn't include numbers related to lack of care due to how NHS dispenses medical care.

Yes, and is not inclusive of those who never got medical care as they are still waiting for their procedures.
I have talked with those in the UK who have been forced to go out of country for care due to the waiting around for things to be done.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:30:42
You read from the wrong source.  If you are going to argue, at least do a little research.  The 700 a year number is from medicine errors not medical errors.

Here's a source (admittedly it's a bit old, but so is the John Hopkins study on the US):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13487/NHS-causes-40-000-deaths-year.html

Official number was about 41,650.  UK has a fifth of the population of the US.  And I am sure this doesn't include numbers related to lack of care due to how NHS dispenses medical care.


Obviously the size of the population is totally irrelevant if not all parts of the equation are the same.
What matters here is not how how many people there are in a country, but how many call upon medical assistance.
I nobody goes and see a doctor, nobody would die of medical errors, right?

Lets assume your 40,000 deaths is correct, and take the population factor to be 1/5 for UK/US
We can also take the 22,000 Rella proposes, but for arguments sake...lets take yours.

https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/367/bmj.l6326.full.pdf - page 7
UK utilization per capita = 5
US utilization per capita = 4

US = 300M x 4 = 1200M consultations
UK = 60M x 5 = 300M consultations

US 1200M consultations result in 250,000 deaths = 0.00021%
UK 300M consultations result in 40,000 deaths = 0.00013%

You see the difference right? Yep, 40%
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:32:17
Yes, and is not inclusive of those who never got medical care as they are still waiting for their procedures.
I have talked with those in the UK who have been forced to go out of country for care due to the waiting around for things to be done.

Yeah duh...of course the number of dead does not include those who are still waiting for their procedure.
Why do you think that is?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:33:13
Very little difference actually, if you include those who are denied health care due to lack of funds and "death panels" in the UK.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:35:38
Yes please do.
You seem to have a problem with numbers. Its very entertaining.

Well, as I was startingmy searhc to provide you what I promised I ran into this link.

If you do not find a specific country, they offer a search bar.

Enjoy  ::tippinghat::

Simply find this on the opening page and click on countries

Case Graphs - Death Graphs - Countries - Death Rate - Incubation - Age - Symptoms - News

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 11:40:27
Yeah duh...of course the number of dead does not include those who are still waiting for their procedure.
Why do you think that is?

The number of those waiting on a procedure cannot be included in any total.

Therefore, the totals are false because in the states we need it and we manage to get it.... and if some problem causes a death, we own it.

In the UK, if they have a wait ,many go abroad. If their is then a medical problem resulting in death it would not be in the UK totals. So they are showing a false low.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 12:34:08
Yes, and is not inclusive of those who never got medical care as they are still waiting for their procedures.
I have talked with those in the UK who have been forced to go out of country for care due to the waiting around for things to be done.

We have always found the NHS to be very good.  Every time we have needed it over the years for ourselves or family members, we have always been pleased with the treatment. I recently had both cataracts done. Did I have to wait a few months? Yes, it wasn't the end of the world and didn't worry me. I am more than happy with the results and very grateful that I didn't have to carry on with blurred vision which was getting worse and worse because I wasn't able to afford private treatment as many there sadly cant afford to do. I feel so much for those who are not able to afford treatment there, many go into terrible debt and even have to sell their homes if they fall ill. .
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 12:35:56
Has it occurred to anyone that our Bemark seemingly was correct?

I feel we owe him an apology, if, he is even reading this now.

He is pretty intuitive as a rule and does seem to hear from God. I didn't take what he said lightly at all. I just didn't know what God wanted me to do as a believer in this time, hence asking myself and others questions. I guess it sadly shows that his country of NZ will get much worse, as at the moment they have very few cases.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 12:38:48
Ill take our over that of Italy's NHS.  ::tippinghat::  186,994 cases and 330 deaths. Population 60,487,167

Ill take ours and our government over that of China. 80,881 cases and 3226 deaths. Population 1,437,722,468

USA      4744 cases... 93 total deaths.  Population 330,435,890

Tell us AVZ... How many deaths in your country?

Why even poor Singapore....is reported to have 186, 994 cases with 7477 total deaths out of a population of 5,836,979 as of Tuesday, March 17, 2020,

the poor country... not quite twice the population of the US but people seem to be dieing of....And at a higher rate then China... not that I believe what is reported out of China.

Not a great example for NHC now is it.....

Shall I do every country? Might take a while... but I will if you want me to.
 

China and Italy are way ahead of the USA. The numbers there will get just as bad eventually.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 12:42:07
The number of those waiting on a procedure cannot be included in any total.

Therefore, the totals are false because in the states we need it and we manage to get it.... and if some problem causes a death, we own it.

In the UK, if they have a wait ,many go abroad. If their is then a medical problem resulting in death it would not be in the UK totals. So they are showing a false low.

Most of the time when people go abroad its not for big serious operations, more for hip and knee replacements etc.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 13:09:20
 

China and Italy are way ahead of the USA. The numbers there will get just as bad eventually.

I expect it.

But Italy is the crazy one. Small country with so many and so many deaths.

It might just be easier to give into it and what ever happens happens.

You are expecting to have seniors have to stay in for 4 months.

President is asking all to basically stay in... but definitely seniors. It has not even been 24 hours and I am feeling cabin fever.

And the suggestion is for 15 days. After 15 days what do they expect to happen when people go back to business as usual.
Do they really think if we hide in our homes the virus will get tired and move on?

If it comes down to a direct order.... and for 32 or 3or 4 months....???
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 13:17:26
If the numbers worldwide approach even half of the cases and deaths from the swine flu, we will see virtually a 100% shutdown of the global economy. And THAT ain’t gonna be a walk in the park either.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 13:22:33
 

China and Italy are way ahead of the USA. The numbers there will get just as bad eventually.

No.  They won't.  Italy is the second oldest population in the world.  Also, Italy has high rates of smoking for older females.  Apples and oranges, in terms of comparison.

Further, 35 people a sq km in the US and A.  206 per sq km in Italy.

So Italy has:
* Very dense population
* Very old population
* High smoking rate among older population

Italy is a perfect storm for a virus like this.

PS.  Italy's healthcare system is terrible.  Even Creepy Joe acknowledged this in the last debate against Comrade Sanders.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 13:24:22
I expect it.

But Italy is the crazy one. Small country with so many and so many deaths.

It might just be easier to give into it and what ever happens happens.

You are expecting to have seniors have to stay in for 4 months.

President is asking all to basically stay in... but definitely seniors. It has not even been 24 hours and I am feeling cabin fever.

And the suggestion is for 15 days. After 15 days what do they expect to happen when people go back to business as usual.
Do they really think if we hide in our homes the virus will get tired and move on?

If it comes down to a direct order.... and for 32 or 3or 4 months....???

The idea is yes, the virus will die out without new hosts to infect.  Eventually with warmer weather and humidity it would slow down or die out as well.  End of March and 2 weeks is not going to be the end of this.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 17, 2020 - 14:52:01
No.  They won't.  Italy is the second oldest population in the world.  Also, Italy has high rates of smoking for older females.  Apples and oranges, in terms of comparison.

Further, 35 people a sq km in the US and A.  206 per sq km in Italy.

So Italy has:
* Very dense population
* Very old population
* High smoking rate among older population

Italy is a perfect storm for a virus like this.

PS.  Italy's healthcare system is terrible.  Even Creepy Joe acknowledged this in the last debate against Comrade Sanders.

+1

Just to add another aspect-

Italy played with fire and is getting burned big time. Italy sold out, and joined China's Belt and Road Initiative. That's why Chinese poured into Italy - (why so many direct flights from Wuhan into Italy). They sold out to China and are now reaping what they've sown. Italy was warned, even by others in the EU about this, but....

Notice this article is a year old, and the subtle warnings - even from a cnbc article-
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/italys-joins-chinas-belt-and-road-initiative.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 01:29:07
Very little difference actually, if you include those who are denied health care due to lack of funds and "death panels" in the UK.

See, here is where you stop making sense.
We are talking about mortality rate due to medical errors.
Now that you do not like the numbers presented to you, you propose to include people who are not dead yet.

Since when do mortality rates include people who are alive?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 01:38:55
Eventually with warmer weather and humidity it would slow down or die out as well.

You are on a roll.
Maybe everybody should go indoors, turn on the heater, spray some water and guess what...virus gone!

If what you say is true, perhaps you can explain why countries with high temperatures and high humidity are fighting the same battle as countries that do not?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 03:14:05
In the spirit About 5 days ago I saw a surf life saving boat . One of those competition ones with the oars . I saw the right side and they was ready to brace for the impact of the wave. There hands grabbed the top rail . I saw the boat hit the wave. Then I was taken to see that there was 3-4 more waves coming. I wasn’t sure what it means and still don’t know but this is moving so fast So I’ will just release the vision.

Not until now , in part , I figured out what the boat was. It was a life saving boat . Our medical systems (boat) our leaders , there systems (leaderSHIP) and those within the boat our wonderful lifesavers. Our lifesavers who are battling to get ahead of this. They are bracing now because the first wave has just hit them . They are not over it. I have watched this sport from time to time about 1 hour all up in my life. I know they have to hit that wave straight or the wave destroys them and the boat. . Then they brace and then it’s all manpower to the oars again. Because then they have to row out to meet the next wave. They row and then brace . Move forward row, brace.

We are in a battle and those who are rowing to save mankind. I’m sorry it’s not  complete. The first wave is not the finish of it .
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 03:30:32
We need to pray that our medical system and those whom direct the boat hit this head on. The right course. We can’t be a degree off or that wave will knock  us sideways and even roll us over. We need to pray that our medical system and people have endurance for the day of battle. There is more I know. Just some thoughts on targeted prayer
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 04:01:44
No.  They won't.  Italy is the second oldest population in the world.  Also, Italy has high rates of smoking for older females.  Apples and oranges, in terms of comparison.

Further, 35 people a sq km in the US and A.  206 per sq km in Italy.

So Italy has:
* Very dense population
* Very old population
* High smoking rate among older population

Italy is a perfect storm for a virus like this.

PS.  Italy's healthcare system is terrible.  Even Creepy Joe acknowledged this in the last debate against Comrade Sanders.

Lets put up some counter arguments.
Even without Covid19 and as you say the "terrible healthcare system" the median age in Italy is still much higher than the median age in the US.
Life expectancy in the US is much lower than life expectancy in Italy.

There are various reasons for this, but it boils down to 2 points: Either healthcare in the US stinks, or Americans are unhealthier than their counterparts in Italy.
Since you claim the healthcare system in the US is fantastic, only one reason remains: Americans are unhealthy.

And its exactly unhealthy people that Covid19 affects most.
It is very well possible Covid19 will hit the US much harder because of the large number of unhealthy people.

As for density, that really is not an item in the discussion.
The density number you present is the total density. Even if all people in the USA would move to one city, your density figure would still remain the same.

Fast is that about 80%-85% of US citizens live in populated area's. Cities and the like.
Those area's have a high density.

Another fact for you.
About 65% of the US population lives on 4% of the total US land area.

There are more people living in large cities in the US then the total population of Italy.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 04:07:50
+1

Just to add another aspect-

Italy played with fire and is getting burned big time. Italy sold out, and joined China's Belt and Road Initiative. That's why Chinese poured into Italy - (why so many direct flights from Wuhan into Italy). They sold out to China and are now reaping what they've sown. Italy was warned, even by others in the EU about this, but....

Notice this article is a year old, and the subtle warnings - even from a cnbc article-
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/italys-joins-chinas-belt-and-road-initiative.html
+1

Just to add another aspect-

Italy played with fire and is getting burned big time. Italy sold out, and joined China's Belt and Road Initiative. That's why Chinese poured into Italy - (why so many direct flights from Wuhan into Italy). They sold out to China and are now reaping what they've sown. Italy was warned, even by others in the EU about this, but....

Notice this article is a year old, and the subtle warnings - even from a cnbc article-
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/27/italys-joins-chinas-belt-and-road-initiative.html
Jigsaw piece in the big picture. Yes China has been aggressive in its approach to the 1 belt . Establishing old trade routes. The way of the sea. Eventually there plans on going through Israel into Africa to harvest there resources. Will,Israel in the future  be in there way now? Who will cause trouble and WHO WILL THE NATIONS BLAME. ( blame game going on now between China and USA) on the covid 19. .  We now know with this covid 19 it’s about trade and money concerns . The stock market . Then the people . My long eye is on this one.

Who knows Gods plans ? and how he disrupts those whom try and stops them or disrupts the timing of them.

Yes even Chinese police in full uniform was walking around Italy .....so the Chinese tourists would feel safe. Lol
mommydi . Slot those pieces in

I will be looking at them in the news and media in the future for sure
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 04:43:31
I'm not quite sure how old you are, NorrinRadd, but I was thinking (from something you once posted) you are about a year younger than me? I'm still considered "middle aged"  - not elderly. Doesn't "elderly" kick in at 65?  ::shrug:: I think we're still a few years away from being considered elderly. (If I'm wrong, please be quiet about it  rofl )

I was recently told that the medical field considers "elderly" to begin at 60.  I have yet to make an effort to try to confirm or refute that claim.

It did surprise me.  I know that in my youth, 60 was considered "old" or "elderly."  I thought that line had been significantly pushed back as life expectancy has increased.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 04:48:09
I expect it.

But Italy is the crazy one. Small country with so many and so many deaths.

It might just be easier to give into it and what ever happens happens.

You are expecting to have seniors have to stay in for 4 months.

President is asking all to basically stay in... but definitely seniors. It has not even been 24 hours and I am feeling cabin fever.

And the suggestion is for 15 days. After 15 days what do they expect to happen when people go back to business as usual.
Do they really think if we hide in our homes the virus will get tired and move on?

If it comes down to a direct order.... and for 32 or 3or 4 months....???

They've already said at the end of two weeks they will probably extend it.  (Don't ask me who said it.  It was one of the "official" goombahs, and he just said it as a casual, off-hand remark, like it was no big deal.)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 05:24:58
AVZ, it’s common knowledge that the Mediterranean diet of the population in Italy is healthier than the processed food Americans eat. Their population density and average age and the reasons TC outlined seem reasonable.  O argument from me that Americans are unhealthier than a lot of countries because of our diet.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 05:41:37
The life expectancy in the US is heavily influenced by accidental death and homicide.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 05:47:32
They've already said at the end of two weeks they will probably extend it.  (Don't ask me who said it.  It was one of the "official" goombahs, and he just said it as a casual, off-hand remark, like it was no big deal.)

The county next to mine.... Allegheny... just said this AM that they expect over the next 2 to 3 months that 40% tp 60% of the people will get covid19

Population in Aug 2019..... 1,220,656 which ties in with the half million number they suggested.

And I am less then 2 miles away.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:04:40



There are various reasons for this, but it boils down to 2 points: Either healthcare in the US stinks, or Americans are unhealthier than their counterparts in Italy.
Since you claim the healthcare system in the US is fantastic, only one reason remains: Americans are unhealthy.




Naw.

Italy has 2 things in their longevity favor.

The amount of wine they drink

and

The Pope. ::crackup::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:08:17
I was recently told that the medical field considers "elderly" to begin at 60.  I have yet to make an effort to try to confirm or refute that claim.

It did surprise me.  I know that in my youth, 60 was considered "old" or "elderly."  I thought that line had been significantly pushed back as life expectancy has increased.

Yep, me too.

But now I realize, with the number of people calling if they can go to the store for not just my mom or me... I am there.

Physically maybe... mentally??? Never  rofl
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:09:54
The life expectancy in the US is heavily influenced by accidental death and homicide.

And drug over doses.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:26:48
And drug over doses.


Yes, that too.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 18, 2020 - 06:42:22

Yes, that too.

And a worse one... military vet suicides.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 03:08:39
Omg Finally . I love our prime minister Jacinda Ardern . She is so amazing

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423903/coronavirus-prime-minister-to-make-announcement-on-border-controls
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 06:03:03
Omg Finally . I love our prime minister Jacinda Ardern . She is so amazing

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423903/coronavirus-prime-minister-to-make-announcement-on-border-controls (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423903/coronavirus-prime-minister-to-make-announcement-on-border-controls)


We've done the same in Canada, even to US citizens for anything other than essential border crossing purposes.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 06:42:55
.I heard a BBC  reporter in Belgium, call the current mad selfish supermarket shelf-raiding/hoarding described as "Hamster-ing" - a nice description! Would it be terribly wicked and un-Christian, to hope that those who stockpile un-necessarily, might trip over their own hoard, and "come a cropper"!  Pagans would laugh/sneer and say "Your God neither sees nor cares!" - but The Word has a bit to say about such hoarding - e.g. Luke 12:`7-21 (someone has said that this "Loo roll-Apocalyptic" reaction of some, has caused loo rolls to become the new Gold almost!!!).  Hmmm! ::pondering:: At our Judgement "books will be opened" so we will  wince and be ashamed later!


 Of course it's other basic "deemed essentials" ( like Baked Beans in tomato sauce, and supplies to feed our pets.  Our daughter is having trouble getting just a few days in advance, tins of her Labrador's "Chappy" and his favourite rawhide chews - going from shop to shop without much success - Empty shelves!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 06:51:58
Omg Finally . I love our prime minister Jacinda Ardern . She is so amazing

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423903/coronavirus-prime-minister-to-make-announcement-on-border-controls
 

Except the way she has used this horrible virus to quickly push though the most extreme and appalling abortion laws in the world.
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/nz-pm-rushes-worlds-most-extreme-abortion-law-into-law-while-country-distracted-with-pandemic/

Interesting that she acts to protect most of the people there, unless they are unborn babies right up to birth. Those babies are clearly worth nothing and can be murdered in the most horrific ways.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 07:00:01
.I heard a BBC  reporter in Belgium, call the current mad selfish supermarket shelf-raiding/hoarding described as "Hamster-ing" - a nice description! Would it be terribly wicked and un-Christian, to hope that those who stockpile un-necessarily, might trip over their own hoard, and "come a cropper"!  Pagans would laugh/sneer and say "Your God neither sees nor cares!" - but The Word has a bit to say about such hoarding - e.g. Luke 12:`7-21 (someone has said that this "Loo roll-Apocalyptic" reaction of some, has caused loo rolls to become the new Gold almost!!!).  Hmmm! ::pondering:: At our Judgement "books will be opened" so we will  wince and be ashamed later!

Yes its a hard one isn't it. Its human nature to do in this sort of crisis, but what God wants us to do I don't know.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 07:14:45
I must say a word of surprised gratitude about the "community spirit" that has surfaced in our road! As "oldies" without our own transport, our close and even more distant street neighbours, have contacted us offering support for shopping etc,  I didn't with all the bad news around that we often see  in the papers think for one moment that such a concerned and caring attitude existed here! Thank you Father in Jesus Name!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 07:38:48
I must say a word of surprised gratitude about the "community spirit" that has surfaced in our road! As "oldies" without our own transport, our close and even more distant street neighbours, have contacted us offering support for shopping etc,  I didn't with all the bad news around that we often see  in the papers think for one moment that such a concerned and caring attitude existed here! Thank you Father in Jesus Name!

I have heard of many such groups springing up who want to help those in need, its very encouraging. I guess that what is in us comes out in a crisis, whether good or bad.
I am sure that God will bring a lot of good out of a bad situation, as He always does.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 07:43:07

We've done the same in Canada, even to US citizens for anything other than essential border crossing purposes.

We agreed with Trudeau on the Canadian border thing, also. He and Trump talked about it so it is both ways.

We are turning away, even asylum seekers on the southern. Of course... some can still get here  ::whistle::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 07:47:32
I must say a word of surprised gratitude about the "community spirit" that has surfaced in our road! As "oldies" without our own transport, our close and even more distant street neighbours, have contacted us offering support for shopping etc,  I didn't with all the bad news around that we often see  in the papers think for one moment that such a concerned and caring attitude existed here! Thank you Father in Jesus Name!

Same here. Two neighbors are offering to shop for others as they need it and another phined yesterday to see if I needed anything.

While endearing... certain brings to light how OLD I must seem to others that they would ask... Or, as I chose to believe... vanity and all that... they want me kept from the germs so I dont carry them to my mom.

Yes. That must be it.  ::clappingoverhead::

In any event it is noce to be thought about.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 07:49:45
OH joy...................  Just keeps getting better.... NOT

Analysts Predict Coronavirus Will Infect 50 Percent of World Population

https://www.newsmax.com/us/coronavirus-analysts-outbreak-economy/2020/03/18/id/958940/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM98352_03192020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010104p5s7jh

also
Additionally, analysts said global growth would stand at just 1 percent for 2020, down from its outlook of 2.3 percent before the outbreak started.

Hey.... a growth is a growth is a growth....
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 08:06:40
Omg Finally . I love our prime minister Jacinda Ardern . She is so amazing

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423903/coronavirus-prime-minister-to-make-announcement-on-border-controls

Yay killing kids!  Let's abort them all in New Zealand. Yay Jacinda!   ::frustrated:: ::doh:: ::frown::

Maybe your dreams of many being killed are a bunch of babies in utero right there in New Zealand.   ::frustrated::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 08:09:46
My wife had heard that one of the  larger local grocery stores was going to open at 6:00 am to 9:00 for people over 60. We arrived at the store at 5:45 and the line was outrageous. We stood in line until they unlocked the door and hundreds of people turned loose at once with grocery carts to a virtually empty store. No fresh vegetables, NONE. The truck had not arrived yet. It mirrored our orevious few visits recently. We found a few obscure items and went to check out and they had two checkers with the lines literally circling the side from the front, down the side and back against the meat and dairy sections. We finally got up to check out and the poor checkers were already bedraggled. My wife and I helped sack our stuff and 3 or 4 others behind us and our check was so thankful and said with sackers they could move so much faster. Could be a great volunteer activity for folks and a chance to witness about the Lord or at least add a smidgeon of light to someone’s life. If someone is out work, being a  checker during these times might make the difference in making it and not. I heard stories on the radio of people paying for someone’s groceries in line with them.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 08:12:48
My wife had heard that one of the  larger local grocery stores was going to open at 6:00 am to 9:00 for people over 60. We arrived at the store at 5:45 and the line was outrageous. We stood in line until they unlocked the door and hundreds of people turned loose at once with grocery carts to a virtually empty store. No fresh vegetables, NONE. The truck had not arrived yet. It mirrored our orevious few visits recently. We found a few obscure items and went to check out and they had two checkers with the lines literally circling the side from the front, down the side and back against the meat and dairy sections. We finally got up to check out and the poor checkers were already bedraggled. My wife and I helped sack our stuff and 3 or 4 others behind us and our check was so thankful and said with sackers they could move so much faster. Could be a great volunteer activity for folks and a chance to witness about the Lord or at least add a smidgeon of light to someone’s life. If someone is out work, being a  checker during these times might make the difference in making it and not. I heard stories on the radio of people paying for someone’s groceries in line with them.

I usually have 3 to 4 weeks of food on hand at any time just because I was raised in the boondocks closest real grocery store was 45+minutes away.  Not to mention having a half a cow, and a pig butchered in the freezer every year.  Now, I do it that way because I hate shopping.

Been ahead of this whole curve for years.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 10:34:55
My wife had heard that one of the  larger local grocery stores was going to open at 6:00 am to 9:00 for people over 60. We arrived at the store at 5:45 and the line was outrageous. We stood in line until they unlocked the door and hundreds of people turned loose at once with grocery carts to a virtually empty store. No fresh vegetables, NONE. The truck had not arrived yet. It mirrored our orevious few visits recently. We found a few obscure items and went to check out and they had two checkers with the lines literally circling the side from the front, down the side and back against the meat and dairy sections. We finally got up to check out and the poor checkers were already bedraggled. My wife and I helped sack our stuff and 3 or 4 others behind us and our check was so thankful and said with sackers they could move so much faster. Could be a great volunteer activity for folks and a chance to witness about the Lord or at least add a smidgeon of light to someone’s life. If someone is out work, being a  checker during these times might make the difference in making it and not. I heard stories on the radio of people paying for someone’s groceries in line with them.

Our largest grocer in the area offers curbside pick up.

It is not free but I will be looking into it.

They do the shopping and then bring it to your car.

Remember, Sams Club also has "free" curbside pickup. They wont even accept tips.

You place your order online, if you have a membership. They get the stuff and have you pick what time you want to be there.

They text when it is time to come. When you arrive you text them... A... then they ask picking up inside or out. If you pay with credit card you can get it out and they bring it to your car.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 10:50:20
Someone here told me that HEB’s curbside orders are out 10 days.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 13:36:02
Still am not concerned about the Coronavirus.

I am concerned about the "better safe than sorry" attitude and overreaction which is crippling the economy, ruining retirement accounts, and causing many jobs to be lost.  And how much longer this idiocy is going to continue.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 13:46:21
The biggest problem with ending the craziness, ALL the NeverTrumpers and the media are heavily invested in a societal meltdown to defeat Trump in November, pretty much at any cost. This is what is driving the panic and the panic increases the odds of Trump losing, THEY THINK. In reality Trump will come across in the end as competent and in charge. Bringing the country to the verge of collapse will be worth it in their perverted minds if only Trump could lose, which he is NOT. Not a stretch for folks that have not lifted a finger for the country as they float the various collusion theories and endless bogus investigations, and impeachment shams. All the while Biden is the best they’ve got!!!!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:06:26
My wife had heard that one of the  larger local grocery stores was going to open at 6:00 am to 9:00 for people over 60. We arrived at the store at 5:45 and the line was outrageous. We stood in line until they unlocked the door and hundreds of people turned loose at once with grocery carts to a virtually empty store. No fresh vegetables, NONE. The truck had not arrived yet. It mirrored our orevious few visits recently. We found a few obscure items and went to check out and they had two checkers with the lines literally circling the side from the front, down the side and back against the meat and dairy sections. We finally got up to check out and the poor checkers were already bedraggled. My wife and I helped sack our stuff and 3 or 4 others behind us and our check was so thankful and said with sackers they could move so much faster. Could be a great volunteer activity for folks and a chance to witness about the Lord or at least add a smidgeon of light to someone’s life. If someone is out work, being a  checker during these times might make the difference in making it and not. I heard stories on the radio of people paying for someone’s groceries in line with them.

People crowding into grocery stores is less risky than going to a restaurant? None of this makes sense.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:18:14
People crowding into grocery stores is less risky than going to a restaurant? None of this makes sense.

Reduced hours in grocery stores so crowding becomes bigger when people do shop for CDC recommended two weeks of food.

People are chastised for hoarding, but many people ate out or shopped daily for food.  Now with following CDC recommendations, "hoarding" is the natural result.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:33:49
You are on a roll.
Maybe everybody should go indoors, turn on the heater, spray some water and guess what...virus gone!

If what you say is true, perhaps you can explain why countries with high temperatures and high humidity are fighting the same battle as countries that do not?

You sound panicked. Are you?

Any scientist will tell you that humid air makes airborne viruses heavier and they settle to the ground faster - causing less transmission. Notice I didn't claim "no transmission" but a much lesser degree of transmission. Same way even though it's hot and humid here in Oklahoma in June, a small percentage of Okies will get a summer cold - but dramatically fewer colds than in January. It's just a fact that humid air makes airborne pathogens heavier - causing them to sink to the ground much faster.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:48:01
Reduced hours in grocery stores so crowding becomes bigger when people do shop for CDC recommended two weeks of food.

People are chastised for hoarding, but many people ate out or shopped daily for food.  Now with following CDC recommendations, "hoarding" is the natural result.

That's true - and explains the initial rush and hoarding, but we're days into this and people are still packing into grocery stores and hoarding.
My thought was instead of limiting food sources to grocery stores only (shutting down restaurants where most people get their daily food) and concentrating huge numbers of people into small grocery stores - all day long - seems counterproductive. IOW, shutting down restaurants concentrated the masses into small grocery stores instead of having them spread out (social distancing) among many restaurants.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:55:27
That's true - and explains the initial rush and hoarding, but we're days into this and people are still packing into grocery stores and hoarding.
My thought was instead of limiting food sources to grocery stores only (shutting down restaurants where most people get their daily food) and concentrating huge numbers of people into small grocery stores - all day long - seems counterproductive. IOW, shutting down restaurants concentrated the masses into small grocery stores instead of having them spread out (social distancing) among many restaurants.

Limits of 50 in chain restaurants that can seat 250 would be easily obtainable.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:56:20
Limits of 50 in chain restaurants that can seat 250 would be easily obtainable.

Sure would.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 14:56:32
You sound panicked. Are you?

Any scientist will tell you that humid air makes airborne viruses heavier and they settle to the ground faster - causing less transmission. Notice I didn't claim "no transmission" but a much lesser degree of transmission. Same way even though it's hot and humid here in Oklahoma in June, a small percentage of Okies will get a summer cold - but dramatically fewer colds than in January. It's just a fact that humid air makes airborne pathogens heavier - causing them to sink to the ground much faster.

AVZ still is too cowardly to tell us about the good and bad of his country.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 15:17:11
AVZ still is too cowardly to tell us about the good and bad of his country.

Always lobbing spit wads from the tall grass.



(https://i.imgur.com/5kzhWqb.png)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 18:04:06
The city sent out an emergency email demanding we stop flushing things other than toilet paper down the toilets. People are flushing tons of paper towels, cloth rags, all kinds of stuff down the toilet and it's causing a bad situation.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 18:05:55
People crowding into grocery stores is less risky than going to a restaurant? None of this makes sense.

Possibly because they can wear their gloves,and facemasks and shields, that they would needto remove to eat?

I just ordered these today.

(https://i.ibb.co/StYTTHt/12.jpg" alt="12" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://carinsuranceguru.org/how-much-is-car-insurance-for-a-16-18-year-old'>insurance on an old car</a><br />)

And these

(https://i.ibb.co/2SVxWw3/1.jpg" alt="1" border="0"></a>)




Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 18:23:53
The city sent out an emergency email demanding we stop flushing things other than toilet paper down the toilets. People are flushing tons of paper towels, cloth rags, all kinds of stuff down the toilet and it's causing a bad situation.

Desperation.

They were almost sold out of baby wipes at Walgreens on Sat.  No idea if any are getting restocked, I have not been out of the house since except to take out the garbage.

I got an email from one bank this afternoon saying that only drive through is available unless
special arrangements are made. And reduced hours.

And our Governor announced today that all non essential business must close by 8 PM today... though the original order was for this past Monday And then on Saturday if they have not he would start to enforce things on Sat.because people are not listening.
"Wolf said his order would be enforced by state troopers, local officials, the state Health and Agriculture departments and the Liquor Control Board."
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 18:42:22
I have ventured out every day this week. Needed to declog a drain, mousetraps, and now I ran out of dog treats.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Thu Mar 19, 2020 - 22:51:25
I've been out everyday too, I have major construction going on due to my time off so I need materials.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 07:00:52
I've been out everyday too, I have major construction going on due to my time off so I need materials.

Hardware stores are open, considered necessity... but lumber yards?  I dont think so here.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 07:06:05
Stop the world, I want to get off.

Saints coach Payton says he tested positive for coronavirus

https://observer-reporter.com/ap/sports/saints-coach-payton-says-he-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/article_d00f7f46-1451-51e4-97bc-2935e8ce2268.html

Does anyone really think a 2 week or even 3 week confinement will slow this?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 07:34:48
My youngest daughter received an email from her hair salon to let her know the day she spent four hours in the chair getting her hair colored another patron was present and positive with corona.

Two weeks self quarantine. The only positives about this is she's working from home now, and also her law school classes have now transitioned to online, so she's not getting behind or hurting financially during the self quarantine period.

Hoping and praying she stays healthy.  ::prayinghard::



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 08:40:08
This may be and I pray it is a conspiracy thing BUT

after our Governor has said yesterday that unnecessary businesses would be fined, or lose their licenses if opened past midnight toniget and would be enforced by police and national guard as necessary I got the following from my cousin who
lives in the middle of the state, 10 minutes ago.

I am not saying it will happen, just keep your ears open and get thee to a store if you can for what you may need.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A coworker sent me this yesterday:

My sister texted me this:

FYI: A friend of a coworker knows Governor Tom Wolfe and has said that likely beginning this Saturday, PA will be on complete home lockdown unless going out for food, medicine, or hospital. For at least a week.

The rest of this message I found out was fake news.

--------------

Now, while the forced shut down of non essential businesses was to have started at 12:01 AM 3-21-2020, to be enforced by law enforcement, and if necessary Natl Guard... ( as reported by Governor Tom Wolf - D a couple of days ago)
then enforcement now will not be until Monday 3-23-2020.

Reason? According to AM news at 5 AM today, some law enforcement were not told what to do so they are uncertain.

LOL... as this was to have been a 2 week nonessential business shutdown, starting last Monday, businesses will really only need worry about 1 week of possible trouble.

Fact: Local McDonald's dining room was open yesterday as they could not have possibly have that many workers lining the
parking lot at noon time. (By dinner time their were only half as many cars in the parking lot. Maybe they were having a meeting?  rofl

Another local chain , of strictly mediocre food also had many cars  close to the main door and having a drive through window could not have had that many people picking up food. Later in the day they had more close to the main door.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 08:48:02
Hardware stores are open, considered necessity... but lumber yards?  I dont think so here.


I think Lowe's and Home Depot can get away with it as they serve both. They have reduced their store hours to 6PM now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 10:08:39
Absolutely livid! - We have about 2 weeks supplies of essentials left - our daughter came to take my wife supermarket shopping today to get next 2 week's supply.  Waste of time - -shelves empty of everything edible (apart from choc Easter eggs! We might in desperation need to get some of those!).  Communal spirit in our street has spurred some of our neighbours to offer transport help to the shops, but that's pointless 'cos all the shops are in the same situation!  Too many bods here in the UK think its "the end of the world" coming  OK so some supermarkets are opening for an hour earlier  on some weekdays, to enable oldies to come and get supplies without being "elbowed out of the way" by frantic greedy youngsters.  That's all very well but for us a long way from the shops, getting there in time poses a problem and we are supposed to avoid buses!

 How come Italy doesn't seem to have this panic-buying problem that empties shelves? - perhaps they are more concerned about the risk of dying from the virus than starving to death from lack of essentials!  Even fruit and veg is almost unobtainable here it seems!

Fed up and angry with crazy selfish humanity!  "Blow everyone as long as number one is OK!"  The silly thing is, there is really enough for all of us, if we just stick to our normal buying patterns, instead of stock-piling in case the food shops never open again! Perhaps a good way to stop the panic-buying is to prevent the use of trolleys, and only serve customers at the checkout who have a single basket of goods!!!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 10:20:57
Absolutely livid! - We have about 2 weeks supplies of essentials left - our daughter came to take my wife supermarket shopping today to get next 2 week's supply.  Waste of time - -shelves empty of everything edible (apart from choc Easter eggs! We might in desperation need to get some of those!).  Communal spirit in our street has spurred some of our neighbours to offer transport help to the shops, but that's pointless 'cos all the shops are in the same situation!  Too many bods here in the UK think its "the end of the world" coming  OK so some supermarkets are opening for an hour earlier  on some weekdays, to enable oldies to come and get supplies without being "elbowed out of the way" by frantic greedy youngsters.  That's all very well but for us a long way from the shops, getting there in time poses a problem and we are supposed to avoid buses!

 How come Italy doesn't seem to have this panic-buying problem that empties shelves? - perhaps they are more concerned about the risk of dying from the virus than starving to death from lack of essentials!  Even fruit and veg is almost unobtainable here it seems!

Fed up and angry with crazy selfish humanity!  "Blow everyone as long as number one is OK!"  The silly thing is, there is really enough for all of us, if we just stick to our normal buying patterns, instead of stock-piling in case the food shops never open again!

In the USA, there are a lot of folks who shop day to day or eat out a lot.  They never have more than a few days food on hand, if that.  Then a government organization like the CDC issues guidance that they have at least 2 weeks of food stores and local or state governments shut down the restaurants. 

Even without going into blame, you are going to have problems.  All these people who shopped day to day with 2 weeks of food for their families?  It means even without hoarding, the markets are going to be picked clean of many things.

I went last night for dog food and treats. 
* Meat aisles had about 10% left.
*Bread aisles had a few scattered loaves
*Frozen Pizza was half gone
*No toilet paper
*Ice cream nearly gone.  What's up with that.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Fri Mar 20, 2020 - 13:26:51
Absolutely livid! - We have about 2 weeks supplies of essentials left - our daughter came to take my wife supermarket shopping today to get next 2 week's supply.  Waste of time - -shelves empty of everything edible (apart from choc Easter eggs! We might in desperation need to get some of those!).  Communal spirit in our street has spurred some of our neighbours to offer transport help to the shops, but that's pointless 'cos all the shops are in the same situation!  Too many bods here in the UK think its "the end of the world" coming  OK so some supermarkets are opening for an hour earlier  on some weekdays, to enable oldies to come and get supplies without being "elbowed out of the way" by frantic greedy youngsters.  That's all very well but for us a long way from the shops, getting there in time poses a problem and we are supposed to avoid buses!

 How come Italy doesn't seem to have this panic-buying problem that empties shelves? - perhaps they are more concerned about the risk of dying from the virus than starving to death from lack of essentials!  Even fruit and veg is almost unobtainable here it seems!

Fed up and angry with crazy selfish humanity!  "Blow everyone as long as number one is OK!"  The silly thing is, there is really enough for all of us, if we just stick to our normal buying patterns, instead of stock-piling in case the food shops never open again! Perhaps a good way to stop the panic-buying is to prevent the use of trolleys, and only serve customers at the checkout who have a single basket of goods!!!
What time did you go Dave?
I tried to get a home delivery in the next week or so with no success, all booked for weeks. So with a prayer for protection I headed to my local supermarket at about 10.15 am today. I suspect that most came much earlier as it wasn't that busy and there were quite a few car parking spaces which for Friday at that time was unusual. No loo rolls, baked beans or paraceetamol, but most shelves were pretty well stocked. Plenty of fruit and veges and eggs and bread etc. I managed to get a couple of bags of shopping without any stress, and by a weird miracle I even managed to get the paracetamol that someone else had asked me to get for them.
 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 05:24:02
Hi "chosenone"!

   Our daughter whisked me off to the bank when she came circa 9 a.m.yesterday Friday 20th, then suggested I stay at home with her dog {so we both had a snooze} - because the current "empty shelves situation" would have been so upsetting (my blood might have boiled over in anger!) - while she and my wife did a tour of local supermarkets Tesco, Sainsbury's, Morrison's and  Asda - shortly after 11 a.m.  Same story at all of them, almost bare shelves.  They managed to get a few cartons of milk and a few tins of soup but not much else.  The national news tells us that the major retailers are hiring more temporary staff to speed up the re-stocking of shelves and deliveries.   I read that some asking for deliveries of online purchases find that the next available slot is some 6 weeks ahead! So what happens during such a long wait?  Hmmmm!  ::pondering::  Off to the nearest "charity food bank" perhaps - if that is, you have the transport (and no using buses)!!!

 That's madness! It can't go on much longer, sooner or later, people will calm down and normality will return - we hope/pray!

   Earlier in the week my wife (after her daily visit to the gym/swim centre - no swimming for the foreseeable future - everything is closed except shops etc from midnight last night!) looked in at Aldi's - and saw one chap with a trolley ahead of her in the checkout queue with 4 big packs of loo rolls piled high on his trolley.  When a few others in the queue tried to remonstrate with him over greed - he just nonchalantly said that the current Aldi policy was no more than 4 items of 1 sort.  Yeah! - but each of the 4 packs must have had some 9 or more rolls!


No wonder I suggested that no customer should have anything more than the store's wire baskets can hold.  If they were loaded with tins and too heavy for oldies to carry - they can be pushed along the floor with a foot!

  Our DailyMail paper yesterday had a short article by Sarah Vine titled "UNTHINKING CRUELTY OF THOSE WHO CARE ONLY FOR THEMSELVES!"  about the current crazy sockpiling,  IMO it was a good article but too long to put here - except for the last few paragraphs!


"  ... We see it all the time in the words and actions of young pop stars and social media icons such as Greta Thunberg: the idea that old people are wicked and expendable, that they 'have stolen' the future, that far from being a source of wisdom and experience, they are out-of-touch obstacles to a brighter, better new world order.
   The irony is that this is a generation that never tires of telling everyone how seriously they take their social responsibility, how much social justice 'like, really really matters to them'; Not it seems, if you don't belong to the approved category of woke and worthy causes - of which being elderly is evidently not one.
   Younger generations will, of course, always clash with older ones.  But it's one thing to rebel against the old order.  Quite another to despise the elderly so much you'd take the food out of their mouths."
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 06:26:14
Dave, not to be bossy, but instead of having your daughter drive you and your wife around town for errands, you should kindly ask her to do the errands for you while you and your wife shelter in place. It's not safe for you and your wife to be out hitting all the stores like that.
Here's how my family is handling it -
My parents tell me if they're low on certain grocery items and I find the items (or a suitable substitute) when I go to the store for myself, then take it to their house and leave it on the porch. Can your daughter do the same for you and your wife?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 06:40:55
Perhaps a good way to stop the panic-buying is to prevent the use of trolleys, and only serve customers at the checkout who have a single basket of goods!!!
I ran to the store Thursday night 15 minutes before they closed. This is my strategy - if I go right before they close, most of shoppers have cleared out, but the overnight stockers are starting to fill the shelves again so I luck out and usually get what I want without fighting large crowds. Thursday night, I picked up a few things, then headed for the self check-out lane that was completely empty. A guy came right up behind me with his cart. Immediately, a store employee went to him and asked him to stand back a few feet from me and keep a distance between us. (I so appreciated that!) Then, the employee told the shopper he is limited to 1 bottle of juice (looked like he had about 4-5 bottles of juice). He also had several packages of tortillas and the employee told him he was limited to one package. If this buying in large quantities persists, I think more stores will start limiting shoppers on quantities.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 06:52:19
My state's idiot Governor just stopped all "non-essential" dental and medical outpatient procedures starting today.  Luckily, I had my necessarily but apparently "non-essential" appointment yesterday.

More people on unemployment if this isn't resolved in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:03:17
@"mommydi"! - Not feasible in our case!

  Our daughter is over an hour's drive away and is under so much stressful pressure at the Pharmacy Hub that she manages, that she can only visit irregularly every 2 or 3 weeks for a day. Unfortunately her firm has taken on a new contract (still in it's first few weeks of operation) dealing with emailed prescriptions from their clients in 2 counties Worcestshire and Shropshire for care homes, prisons, and similar institutions.  Nearly at breaking point due to the firm's management taking on "more than they can chew"! We are very wary of asking much of her in her difficult circumstances - of "fights" with the Driver Controller" trying ro save money on couriers for outgoing stuff but at the same time trying to "square the circle" by supplying goods in the agreed time according to the contract, mistakes between prescriptions and agreed  "drug charts", staff sicknesses, incessant phone calls to deal with problems (some of the drugs require preliminary blood tests before issue etc - and there is always pressure to keep tabs on stock levels within the hub and available on hospital wards. There is a constant need to check that no mistake occurs, or is quickly rectified before stuff is sent out. At times our daughter and some available staff have had to work 4 or 5 hours overtime to get stuff ready for the next day's deliveries. We worry that it might have a bad effect on her health - always under stress. A reasonable level is OK keeping one "on one's toes", but too much can lead to heart problems etc.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:04:13
My state's idiot Governor just stopped all "non-essential" dental and medical outpatient procedures starting today.  Luckily, I had my necessarily but apparently "non-essential" appointment yesterday.

More people on unemployment if this isn't resolved in 2 weeks.

i'm starting to see a growing number of people on social media saying if this isn't resolved in the next couple of weeks, they'll say "**** it" and come on back out and get back to work and living.
I saw some expert on tv a couple of nights ago saying you can only force a quarantine for about three weeks before civil unrest starts taking over - then explodes. It starts with looting, then goes downhill fast.
How in the world anyone thinks everyone can/will sit in their homes all summer with no jobs, no nothing....IDK, but that won't happen.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:10:00
Dave, not to be bossy, but instead of having your daughter drive you and your wife around town for errands, you should kindly ask her to do the errands for you while you and your wife shelter in place. It's not safe for you and your wife to be out hitting all the stores like that.
Here's how my family is handling it -
My parents tell me if they're low on certain grocery items and I find the items (or a suitable substitute) when I go to the store for myself, then take it to their house and leave it on the porch. Can your daughter do the same for you and your wife?

Dave,

I agree with mommydi on this one.

Wehave had neighbors calling to see if they can shop for us but a week ago I made certain we have a 2 week supply in the house.

I also made ertain to get am ample supply of pasta things... like spaghetti and ziti and sauce IN CASE ...

For myself, not to bother the neighbors but when I run out of milk and perishable stuff, I will hit my local market the moment the are open, which is about 7:30 AM before the "rush" and the store would have had overnight with no new germs added from people.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:10:46
Not feasible in our case!

So sorry.

I know you live in the UK, but you may have something similar there - Here in the US, a lot of us are using an app called Nextdoor that allows you to connect with people in your neighborhood. Younger couples in my neighborhood are volunteering to pick up groceries for elderly neighbors while they do their own shopping.

What about your church? Any young, healthy members offering to shop for older members?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:13:00
Dave,

I agree with mommydi on this one.

Wehave had neighbors calling to see if they can shop for us but a week ago I made certain we have a 2 week supply in the house.

I also made ertain to get am ample supply of pasta things... like spaghetti and ziti and sauce IN CASE ...

For myself, not to bother the neighbors but when I run out of milk and perishable stuff, I will hit my local market the moment the are open, which is about 7:30 AM before the "rush" and the store would have had overnight with no new germs added from people.

Most of our local markets have elderly hours from 6 am to 7:30 am or something like anyway.  When regular non-retired folks are sleeping anyway.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:16:33
My state's idiot Governor just stopped all "non-essential" dental and medical outpatient procedures starting today.  Luckily, I had my necessarily but apparently "non-essential" appointment yesterday.

More people on unemployment if this isn't resolved in 2 weeks.

It is not going to be resolvved in 2 weeks likely but the closures will be, I hope.

The dentists are because the ADA sent a directive to them.

I had a cleaning cancelled and also prep for some crown work is on hold for a while.

I do not see my cardiologist until early June, but mom's endocrinologist told us yesterday to keep her early May appointment and if things are still up in the air they will do it telephonically.  And she is not to worry if she does not get her blood work done this time.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:18:14
Most of our local markets have elderly hours from 6 am to 7:30 am or something like anyway.  When regular non-retired folks are sleeping anyway.

Yea, and also the old folks who have trouble getting up early as it is
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:26:34
i'm starting to see a growing number of people on social media saying if this isn't resolved in the next couple of weeks, they'll say "**** it" and come on back out and get back to work and living.
I saw some expert on tv a couple of nights ago saying you can only force a quarantine for about three weeks before civil unrest starts taking over - then explodes. It starts with looting, then goes downhill fast.
How in the world anyone thinks everyone can/will sit in their homes all summer with no jobs, no nothing....IDK, but that won't happen.

I agree. it wont happen.

But then it is not happening now.

We were asked to do 2 weeks.... that is 10 work days... the "ideal" length of time folks love for a vacation from work...
to sit at home while their non essential business is not open for that time....

But nooooooooooo. That is a hardship.

And how many of those , if just off from work, would be normally sitting on their sofas, in their shorts, with a beer in one hand and the remote in the other.

Just like the "spring breakers" who will not be denied their 24/7 partying and orgies.

They worked so hard to this time and "deserve" this break. And dont care if they get covid19 because they do not believe it to be real. Maybe their parents are simply hoping this will eliminate an uncontrollable problem for themselves?

Ill give them a break.....

POTUS says no national shut down....

But if people keep ignoring advice.... I wonder
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:31:22
On a happier note:

Ingenuity. ::whistle::

Innovating: 'Free roll of toilet paper with every pizza' and pop-ups

(https://i.ibb.co/VWxBj8F/TP.jpg" alt="TP" border="0"></a>)

https://observer-reporter.com/series/coronavirus/innovating-free-roll-of-toilet-paper-with-every-pizza-and/article_e0248eba-6a0b-11ea-bb56-9344d51a81be.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:32:27
Yesterday, a friend told me she heard Dr. Oz say that scientists are starting to think this virus has already been here in the US since November or so and is now starting to peak. This same friend's son came home a few weeks ago from college in Kansas with some sort of terrible respiratory infection that shut down the college for 3 days while they tried to control it. Her son's illness was so bad, he had to go get breathing treatments. Then she and her husband caught it. They all tested for negative for flu. Sure, there are always respiratory infections that aren't flu related, but it sure makes you wonder if corona has been circulating here a lot longer than we know.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:39:47
Dave and Chosen,

UK Shuts Pubs, Will Help Pay Workers' Wages Amid Pandemic

https://www.newsmax.com/world/globaltalk/pubs/2020/03/20/id/959267/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM98695_03212020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=0101049l3vyr
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:46:48
I agree. it wont happen.

But then it is not happening now.

We were asked to do 2 weeks.... that is 10 work days... the "ideal" length of time folks love for a vacation from work...
to sit at home while their non essential business is not open for that time....

But nooooooooooo. That is a hardship.

And how many of those , if just off from work, would be normally sitting on their sofas, in their shorts, with a beer in one hand and the remote in the other.

Just like the "spring breakers" who will not be denied their 24/7 partying and orgies.

They worked so hard to this time and "deserve" this break. And dont care if they get covid19 because they do not believe it to be real. Maybe their parents are simply hoping this will eliminate an uncontrollable problem for themselves?

Ill give them a break.....

POTUS says no national shut down....

But if people keep ignoring advice.... I wonder

2 weeks of many people who can't afford it in jobs that don't have paid vacation or sick  time absent some government intervention. A lot of people are being seriously hurt by these retarded directives.

And if you believe this is gonna be just two weeks, I have some ocean front property just outside Pittsburgh I would like to sell you.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:48:50
Yesterday, a friend told me she heard Dr. Oz say that scientists are starting to think this virus has already been here in the US since November or so and is now starting to peak. This same friend's son came home a few weeks ago from college in Kansas with some sort of terrible respiratory infection that shut down the college for 3 days while they tried to control it. Her son's illness was so bad, he had to go get breathing treatments. Then she and her husband caught it. They all tested for negative for flu. Sure, there are always respiratory infections that aren't flu related, but it sure makes you wonder if corona has been circulating here a lot longer than we know.

Would not surprise me it was here from the start of the Chinese China Virus outbreak.

All it would take would be for a traveler to have been in China when it happened and then come back to the states.

It is the multiplying of it now that is the alarming feature of it.

And a 2 week quarantine will not do much.

There are some treatments that have been successful if you can get a doc to sign off on it an not listen to Dr. Fauci who says there have to be trials.......

Both of these are readily available and NOT new

hydroxychloroquine and zithromax.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:52:22
Yesterday, a friend told me she heard Dr. Oz say that scientists are starting to think this virus has already been here in the US since November or so and is now starting to peak. This same friend's son came home a few weeks ago from college in Kansas with some sort of terrible respiratory infection that shut down the college for 3 days while they tried to control it. Her son's illness was so bad, he had to go get breathing treatments. Then she and her husband caught it. They all tested for negative for flu. Sure, there are always respiratory infections that aren't flu related, but it sure makes you wonder if corona has been circulating here a lot longer than we know.

I had a resperitory problem in late December that was quite contagious that had the symptoms of covid19.  I would not be surprised if that's what it was.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:57:59
2 weeks of many people who can't afford it in jobs that don't have paid vacation or sick  time absent some government intervention. A lot of people are being seriously hurt by these retarded directives.

And if you believe this is gonna be just two weeks, I have some ocean front property just outside Pittsburgh I would like to sell you.

If you would take the time to read my posts I keep saying 2 weeks is not long enough.

BUT at the same time if you get this _____er then you are going to be out not only pay but medical money as well.l

Walmart just announced they are hiring 150,000 hourly people nationwide RIGHT NOW. For Walmarts and Sams to restock shelves and such....

Someone want to make some money right now? I know people who would pay people just to go shopping for them.....

Lots of our local restaurants that deliver are looking for drivers for the extra food orders now....

And there is always unemployment that would cover part of a week of the 2.

No... I am not saying it is easy. It is not for anyone. But people will use any excuse to complain rather then try for a solution.

And whether or not you approve if the Senate gets off their high horse most of these will get a nice check for more then
their weekly pay.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 07:58:50
I had a resperitory problem in late December that was quite contagious that had the symptoms of covid19.  I would not be surprised if that's what it was.

What did they treat you with? How long did it last?

Did you survive? rofl
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 08:41:41
If you would take the time to read my posts I keep saying 2 weeks is not long enough.

BUT at the same time if you get this _____er then you are going to be out not only pay but medical money as well.l

Walmart just announced they are hiring 150,000 hourly people nationwide RIGHT NOW. For Walmarts and Sams to restock shelves and such....

Someone want to make some money right now? I know people who would pay people just to go shopping for them.....

Lots of our local restaurants that deliver are looking for drivers for the extra food orders now....

And there is always unemployment that would cover part of a week of the 2.

No... I am not saying it is easy. It is not for anyone. But people will use any excuse to complain rather then try for a solution.

And whether or not you approve if the Senate gets off their high horse most of these will get a nice check for more then
their weekly pay.

I think the shutdown for the virus will harm more people than the virus will.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 08:48:46
I think the shutdown for the virus will harm more people than the virus will.

So do I.

I think Israel is handling this better with herd immunity. They're isolating the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. The rest of them carry on and keep the country going. After the virus has spread across the country and immunity is built, the old people come back out.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 08:53:42
I think the shutdown for the virus will harm more people than the virus will.


Do you still believe that would be true if we did nothing?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 09:15:44

Do you still believe that would be true if we did nothing?

Potentially but we won't know that.  Speculation on my part and anyone else's.  All I can go off is current data and data from the flu.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 09:17:57
So do I.

I think Israel is handling this better with herd immunity. They're isolating the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. The rest of them carry on and keep the country going. After the virus has spread across the country and immunity is built, the old people come back out.

I could dig that response.  Fits the data better, I believe.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 09:38:44
Personally I think the economic shutdown will have worse impact than the disease itself. I told someone Sunday a week ago, that if they shut down things at the pace it was going, the world-wide economy would cease by Thursday. I said that tongue in cheek, but I wasn’t too far wrong.   We are sprinting at full blast from 10 days ago with the best economy we’ve had in decades to teetering on a worldwide recession or depression. We can’t bail out a twenty trillion dollar economy with $1,000 checks in the mail. The pandemic IS serious, but I see much worse coming from the self imposed shut down.

Here in Oil patch, we have the parallel disaster of the Saudi/Russian oil price war. Yes cheaper gasoline, but immense economic impact to the entire nation. I read this morning that oil prices could literally hit a NEGATIVE  number with the glutted supply chain and lack of storage. A lot of the supply glut is being parked in tankers on the open ocean. That capacity is not unlimited. We had negative natural gas prices here in West Texas for a few months recently because of the backlogged pipeline infrastructure. Producers were literally paying companies to take their gas, IF THEY EVEN COULD. The shale producers WAY outdid themselves, and frankly scared the crap out the Saudis, who are now breaking it off in our behinds! This bust and the pandemic effect is way beyond anything we have seen. We produced ourselves into independence from Middle Eastern price gouging, only to be victims of the Saudi’s suicidal attempt to kill it’s competitors. They have way more cash reserves than we do, and to them market share is king and they are tired of being the swing producer and the fall guy for cutting production to protect prices.

I would say a month more of the bunker mentality here on the pandemic will accomplish what the Saudi’s are aiming for. THEN look out! Though the Pandemic and oil price crash are more or less unrelated, but both together could bring our country to our knees MUCH sooner.

Also the Chicoms are positioning themselves to fill world leadership as we play self Whack-a-mo.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 10:13:38
Personally I think the economic shutdown will have worse impact than the disease itself.

Now look at the places that are currently shutting Down.

CA with a Dem governor.

NY with a Dem governor

Chicago headed that wy with a Dem Mayor

PA with a Dem Governor

Notice a pattern here.....?

MOST of this is all about politics and taking out POTUS.... and the y have found their magic bullet.

Destroy the economy

As to gas prices being lowered ... When....?  Rarely happens more then 2 or 3 cents here in PA.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 10:16:22
Now look at the places that are currently shutting Down.

CA with a Dem governor.

NY with a Dem governor

Chicago headed that wy with a Dem Mayor

PA with a Dem Governor

Notice a pattern here.....

MOST of this is all about politics and taking out POTUS.... and the y have found their magic bullet.

Destroy the economy

You complain people aren't wanting to quietly sit at home and wait out virus, then you are talking about Dems overreacting on purpose.

Which one do you believe?  You can't believe both.  They are contradictory ideas.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 10:19:51
You complain people aren't wanting to quietly sit at home and wait out virus, then you are talking about Dems overreacting on purpose.

Which one do you believe?  You can't believe both.  They are contradictory ideas.

I dont want to .... I know no one who does.... but if seniors are safer a home they need to stay put like I am.

But it is the Dems using this for advantage.

I dont see Texas or Florida shutting up like they want us to.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 10:38:21
Rella the gasoline price here has dropped from $2.25  to $1.99 in just over a week. It typically takes a while to drop for sure. Here in Midland, we are used to being anywhere from $.25/gal to $.40/ gal higher than the rest of the state. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 11:33:20
Rella the gasoline price here has dropped from $2.25  to $1.99 in just over a week. It typically takes a while to drop for sure. Here in Midland, we are used to being anywhere from $.25/gal to $.40/ gal higher than the rest of the state.

Ill keep my eye on it.

Though our gasoline tax is said to be the highest in the country. $ .77   a Gallon.$.59 of it is state tax.

It is supposed to go to roads and bridge repairs but we also have among the worst in the country.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 11:35:33
Well, it got our church.

No service tomorrow. Be it the China virus or "non essential" business noin person services.

 We will live stream it though.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 12:18:30
All regions of the nation have widely different gasoline taxes. In other words if the actual cost of gasoline was $.05/gallon, the station might have to charge $1.25 because of taxes in place. It’s staggering how much of some people’s gas prices is TAXES.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 12:45:21
Most of our local markets have elderly hours from 6 am to 7:30 am or something like anyway.  When regular non-retired folks are sleeping anyway.

IOur neighbours have offered as you suggest - but that's no help because they will see the same result - empty shelves picked bare by the "human locusts" - no-one can get what's not there! Think the situation will change very soon - the government are going to get "heavy-handed" with them!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 12:49:17
I heard on the radio that 45% of ALL Americans live paycheck to  paycheck. It’s gonna get real, REAL FAST.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 13:24:26
I heard on the radio that 45% of ALL Americans live paycheck to  paycheck. It’s gonna get real, REAL FAST.

Gotta be higher.  47% don't pay income tax. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 13:34:20
Could be. At any rate way to many. And not a good recipe for surviving a societal meltdown.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 13:40:02
Could be. At any rate way to many. And not a good recipe for surviving a societal meltdown.

Word on the street is early next week Trump could call for shelter in place for entire country.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:15:25
Word on the street is early next week Trump could call for shelter in place for entire country.

I do not think so.

He says no.Yesterday, when he blew up at 2 reporters he was still saying no.

Others are touting we are headed for Marshall law....

I dont believe that one either.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:20:34
Word on the street is early next week Trump could call for shelter in place for entire country.

I doubt it. Some of the major metropolitan areas hit the hardest- sure - but not a shelter in place order for the entire country.

Italy is panicking people, but Italy is the perfect storm situation - we are not.

As of yesterday, Trump said a national lockdown was "likely unnecessary" and he's being pretty honest about this with us, so I think it is unlikely.

Where are you hearing he may do this next week?







Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:27:25
Read this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137733/Bars-restaurants-stores-boarded-three-million-prepare-file-unemployment.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:31:00
I do not think so.

He says no.Yesterday, when he blew up at 2 reporters he was still saying no.

Others are touting we are headed for Marshall law....

I dont believe that one either.

Agreed. I keep seeing all kinds of rumors saying martial law is imminent - any day. Nope. Navy Reserves and Marine Reserves have cancelled their training drills for April and May trying to avoid spreading corona. If a huge military takeover was happening, they'd be gearing up, not staying home, and they wouldn't stop with activating a few National Guard troops, they'd call in the Reserves, too.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/03/17/military-reservists-missing-drills-due-coronavirus-might-be-eligible-waivers.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:38:33
I wouldn't have believed a year ago we'd be here right now.

It wouldn't shock me for Trump to out-caution the Dems at this point, to prove he can.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:41:30
Read this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8137733/Bars-restaurants-stores-boarded-three-million-prepare-file-unemployment.html

There's a lot of hyperbole in that article-

"Bars, restaurants, stores and casinos lie boarded up across the US "

I haven't seen one business "boarded up." I'm seeing a lot of restaurants limited to drive-thru and carry out, but there are still a few cars around all the restaurants around here. Certainly no "boarded up" businesses. Other businesses around here are still open. I wanted to stop at my favorite garden center a couple of days ago, but drove by and they were too busy for my comfort level.
The closest casino to my house finally closed until it's safe to reopen, but it's not "boarded up." lol

"President Trump warned that he may throw the entire nation into lockdown for two weeks"
No, he said that's "unlikely."

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 14:43:37
There's a lot of hyperbole in that article-

"Bars, restaurants, stores and casinos lie boarded up across the US "

I haven't seen one business "boarded up." I'm seeing a lot of restaurants limited to drive-thru and carry out, but there are still a few cars around all the restaurants around here. Certainly no "boarded up" businesses. Other businesses around here are still open. I wanted to stop at my favorite garden center a couple of days ago, but drove by and they were too busy for my comfort level.
The closest casino to my house finally closed until it's safe to reopen, but it's not "boarded up." lol

"President Trump warned that he may throw the entire nation into lockdown for two weeks"
No, he said that's "unlikely."

Believe what you want, but be prepared.  He can change his mind.  Nearly a quarter of the population is already under shelter in place orders.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 15:14:04
As usual this issue has been heavily politicized, seems people are very divided on the appropriate measures that should or shouldn't be implemented. If we do nothing and it becomes an out of control situation that kills hundreds of thousands we look like fools for ever doubting the veracity of the warnings but if we exercise an over-cautious approach with death tolls remaining low throughout the end-of-life of this disease, then we're scrutinized for purposely killing the economy.

Reading some of the statistics regarding the nature of this virus, it certainly seems some people may be badly misinformed with the direction they believe this disease to take. OTOH many people are reacting in a manner that is far from rational, not everything is a cover-up meant to harm people nor is everything is a conspiracy meant to take down governments and it's citizens.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 15:38:11
Alan, you may find this interesting. This morning's Scott Adam's periscope where he's discussing just that - a happy medium, so to speak. How/when to get people back to work but not too soon/late.

Good ideas-

https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/status/1241364418157408262
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 15:56:54
As usual this issue has been heavily politicized, seems people are very divided on the appropriate measures that should or shouldn't be implemented. If we do nothing and it becomes an out of control situation that kills hundreds of thousands we look like fools for ever doubting the veracity of the warnings but if we exercise an over-cautious approach with death tolls remaining low throughout the end-of-life of this disease, then we're scrutinized for purposely killing the economy.

Reading some of the statistics regarding the nature of this virus, it certainly seems some people may be badly misinformed with the direction they believe this disease to take. OTOH many people are reacting in a manner that is far from rational, not everything is a cover-up meant to harm people nor is everything is a conspiracy meant to take down governments and it's citizens.

The future direction of this virus is also speculation.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 15:58:19
Alan, you may find this interesting. This morning's Scott Adam's periscope where he's discussing just that - a happy medium, so to speak. How/when to get people back to work but not too soon/late.

Good ideas-



Thank you, I'll definitely watch it when I have a bit of free time. From the sounds of it though it may be something our provincial government need to adopt, there is a good possibility that the proposed return to work date of April 6th may not happen, with some saying we may not get back until July.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 16:03:04
The future direction of this virus is also speculation.


Not exactly, we have enough information to know that it needs to be treated with respect although we cannot fully understand it's peak potential at this time. We have already seen it mutate at least once, it's possible that could happen multiple times before it runs it's course.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 16:12:44

Not exactly, we have enough information to know that it needs to be treated with respect although we cannot fully understand it's peak potential at this time. We have already seen it mutate at least once, it's possible that could happen multiple times before it runs it's course.

Aka speculation
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 16:31:41
Speculation is not necessarily a bad term to use.  We have have very smart people with a lot of knowledge trying to predict the outcome of this virus based upon known and unknown variables.

I don't think any of the smart people are dismissing Coronavirus but there are differing opinions among doctors and scientists on the long term scope of its impact.

And this is before you add politics into the mix.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 16:43:46

Thank you, I'll definitely watch it when I have a bit of free time. From the sounds of it though it may be something our provincial government need to adopt, there is a good possibility that the proposed return to work date of April 6th may not happen, with some saying we may not get back until July.

Adams says here in the US, we will probably go back to work in phases and in less infected areas of the country - first. He says to think of it as a dimmer switch gradually rising and starting in the next week or two. At first, the people under 60, who are healthy will return to normal work/activities. He also has the idea of pop up tents at local hospitals where people can get tested and given the medication on the spot to take home. (not the seriously ill who will be admitted, just minor cases)

Anyway, when you do get time, it's a thoughtful plan and worth a listen.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 18:03:51
There's a lot of hyperbole in that article-

"Bars, restaurants, stores and casinos lie boarded up across the US "

I haven't seen one business "boarded up." I'm seeing a lot of restaurants limited to drive-thru and carry out, but there are still a few cars around all the restaurants around here. Certainly no "boarded up" businesses. Other businesses around here are still open. I wanted to stop at my favorite garden center a couple of days ago, but drove by and they were too busy for my comfort level.
The closest casino to my house finally closed until it's safe to reopen, but it's not "boarded up." lol

"President Trump warned that he may throw the entire nation into lockdown for two weeks"
No, he said that's "unlikely."


Same here with the restaurants. Some with few cars .

I agree... boarded up, no way.

Picture #2 is a theatreand they say shuttered. I see solid doorswith hingesnoticable on the right hand doors and chromeframes and handlesvisibleon the left.

Picture #3. Give me a break.OLD weatheredplywood that has been in place alotlonger then this virus has been here.

Picture #4. Sephora: Lookat all that glass. Ya think they are afraid of looterswhilethe businessesare closed?

A quick copy and paste here shouldtellyou  why they might be concerned.

They also have a cosmetics line which you can buy at Sephora for a price, of course. Just because Sephora has a variety of brands and prices does not mean that Giorgio Armani would go down on theirs. This brand has become popular, but still one of the most expensive brands the franchise sells.Jul 8, 2018

Picture #5. A Wine and Spirits store in Philadelphia. Just look at the trash on the ground in the parking lot...
Not a prime location and again ripe for looters.

Picture #6  Hunk Oasis, male strippers.  Looks from the top windows like it may be closed.... as in permanent. 

Further down...Why did they only shutter the revolving doors and not the side doors at the Bellagio? I have stayed there.

FYI That is the entrance to their shopping arcade...you can see Gucci and Prada signage... Big Bucks.

Ill stop now cause it is obvious much of the pictures they show are questionable as being Chinese Virus
related.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 18:06:31
BREAKING: FDA Approves Milestone Coronavirus Test That Shows Results In 45 Minutes

https://trendingpolitics.com/breaking-fda-approves-milestone-coronavirus-test-that-shows-results-in-45-minutes/?utm_medium=klaviyo&utm_source=ilmf&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJub3Jhd2VsbGVyMTAxQHlhaG9vLmNvbSIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIkppQ0U2RCJ9
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 18:10:20
WHAT would everyone say is the difference in this pandemic and the Swine Flu pandemic of 2009/2010 other than the statistics? With the swine flu, America had 60 MILLION infected, 300,000 hospitalized and 16,000 dead? And with very little panic and relatively little economic meltdown with way worse statistics? Am I the only one that is curious?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 19:02:58
WHAT would everyone say is the difference in this pandemic and the Swine Flu pandemic of 2009/2010 other than the statistics? With the swine flu, America had 60 MILLION infected, 300,000 hospitalized and 16,000 dead? And with very little panic and relatively little economic meltdown with way worse statistics? Am I the only one that is curious?

This one seems different I think because it is so contagious.

Even first responders are being hit and causing a reduction in those responding to certain things. Such as less firemen at a fire. Which makes one wonder,with all they wear how we can protect ourselves.

A handful of cases in PA that grew to 371 in the past 3 weeks.

Also, this is not a flu. It is a virus.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 19:18:29
What I notice as the main difference is that Obama was President during the Swine Flu and the media didn’t want to drive the economy into the ground with perpetual panic to get rid of him like they are with Trump. Especially every effort to get rid of him to date has failed miserably.

I heard a well known local doctor on TV today say until we get a decent figure for the denominator of deaths/cases ratio through more testing, we may find this thing is no worse than then flu that comes around and kills thousands every year. We need to figure that out before we willingly destroy the strongest economy in the world with 24/7 panic. And we are heading there as fast as we can. Real fast!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 19:45:41
This one seems different I think because it is so contagious.

Even first responders are being hit and causing a reduction in those responding to certain things. Such as less firemen at a fire. Which makes one wonder,with all they wear how we can protect ourselves.

A handful of cases in PA that grew to 371 in the past 3 weeks.

Also, this is not a flu. It is a virus.

The flu is a virus.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:11:37
I read an article today from Ron Paul that I agree with. He said the corona virus is not a hoax, but the way over the top reaction to it by the media promoting 24/7 panic IS a hoax.

 https://www.fitsnews.com/2020/03/16/guest-column-ron-paul-the-coronavirus-hoax/ (https://www.fitsnews.com/2020/03/16/guest-column-ron-paul-the-coronavirus-hoax/)
Title: Deaths in the USA by Flu Virus - Last 10 Years
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:16:22
Deaths By Flu.  A VIRUS!

By Flu Season:

2018-2019 - 35 Million illnesses, 490,561 hospitalizations, 34,157 deaths
2017-2018 - 45 Million illnesses, 808,129 hospitalizations, 61,099 deaths
2016-2017 - 29 Million illnesses, 496,912 hospitalizations, 38,230 deaths
2015-2016 - 23.5 Million illnesses, 276,198 hospitalizations, 22,705 deaths
2014-2015 - 30 Million illnesses, 590,869 hospitalizations, 51,376 deaths
2013-2014 - 29.7 Million illnesses, 346,912 hospitalizations, 37,930 deaths
2012-2013 - 33.7 Million illnesses, 571,382 hospitalizations, 42,570 deaths
2011-2012 - 9.3 Million illnesses, 139,866 hospitalizations, 12,447 deaths
2010-2011 - 21.3 Million illnesses, 289,983 hospitalizations, 36,656 deaths

You can use the following link to verify these figures from the CDC directly:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html
Title: Re: Deaths in the USA by Flu Virus - Last 10 Years
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:23:47
So you're telling us that the mortality rate for COVID-19 is over 10 times that of the flu?

That's one way of showing us why we need to work so hard to contain it.

If it spread like the flu, there would be about 420,000 people dead.    And...

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/20/815408287/how-the-novel-coronavirus-and-the-flu-are-alike-and-different
Title: Re: Deaths in the USA by Flu Virus - Last 10 Years
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:29:19
So you're telling us that the mortality rate for COVID-19 is over 10 times that of the flu?

That's one way of showing us why we need to work so hard to contain it.

If it spread like the flu, there would be about 420,000 people dead.    And...

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/20/815408287/how-the-novel-coronavirus-and-the-flu-are-alike-and-different

You don't know what the true mortality rate for COVID-19 is at all.  There are so many potential untested COVID illnesses here in the USA it is astounding.  So your ten times number is bogus.  All your numbers are bogus.  I have presented actual data.  You have nothing.

I know in my county, they ran out of tests at a drive in test center.  They begin testing for flu strains instead.  They told everyone who tested negative for both flu strains to assume they had COVID-19 and self-quarantine. 
Title: Re: Deaths in the USA by Flu Virus - Last 10 Years
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:40:16
The following article is written by: John P.A. Ioannidis

John P.A. Ioannidis is professor of medicine, of epidemiology and population health, of biomedical data science, and of statistics at Stanford University and co-director of Stanford’s Meta-Research Innovation Center.

The current coronavirus disease, Covid-19, has been called a once-in-a-century pandemic. But it may also be a once-in-a-century evidence fiasco.

At a time when everyone needs better information, from disease modelers and governments to people quarantined or just social distancing, we lack reliable evidence on how many people have been infected with SARS-CoV-2 or who continue to become infected. Better information is needed to guide decisions and actions of monumental significance and to monitor their impact.

Draconian countermeasures have been adopted in many countries. If the pandemic dissipates — either on its own or because of these measures — short-term extreme social distancing and lockdowns may be bearable. How long, though, should measures like these be continued if the pandemic churns across the globe unabated? How can policymakers tell if they are doing more good than harm?

Vaccines or affordable treatments take many months (or even years) to develop and test properly. Given such timelines, the consequences of long-term lockdowns are entirely unknown.

The data collected so far on how many people are infected and how the epidemic is evolving are utterly unreliable. Given the limited testing to date, some deaths and probably the vast majority of infections due to SARS-CoV-2 are being missed. We don’t know if we are failing to capture infections by a factor of three or 300. Three months after the outbreak emerged, most countries, including the U.S., lack the ability to test a large number of people and no countries have reliable data on the prevalence of the virus in a representative random sample of the general population.


Read the rest here:

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/17/a-fiasco-in-the-making-as-the-coronavirus-pandemic-takes-hold-we-are-making-decisions-without-reliable-data/

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:45:50
The flu is a virus.

While influenza is a virus. Type A,B,C,D,  Coronavirus IS NOT a flu.

There are four types of influenza viruses: A, B, C and D. Human influenza A and B viruses cause seasonal epidemics of disease (known as the flu season) almost every winter in the United States. Influenza A viruses are the only influenza viruses known to cause flu pandemics, i.e., global epidemics of flu disease

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm

The fact that the novel coronavirus appeared in the middle of flu season has prompted inevitable comparisons. Is COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus, pretty much similar to the flu or does it pose a far greater threat?

Although there are still many unknowns about COVID-19, there is some solid information from researchers that sheds light on some of the similarities and differences at this time.

Symptoms

Fever, dry cough, fatigue and shortness of breath. These are the most frequent symptoms of COVID-19. Some patients might develop aches and pains; just 5% get the sniffles, according to data from China — indicating that COVID-19 is not usually an upper respiratory infection.

These are all symptoms that overlap with flu. The Centers for Disease Control says that anyone who is experiencing these symptoms and who has been in direct contact with a confirmed COVID-19 patient, or who lives in an area where cases are circulating, should call their doctor for advice.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/20/815408287/how-the-novel-coronavirus-and-the-flu-are-alike-and-different
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 20:53:10
While influenza is a virus. Type A,B,C,D,  Coronavirus IS NOT a flu.

There are four types of influenza viruses: A, B, C and D. Human influenza A and B viruses cause seasonal epidemics of disease (known as the flu season) almost every winter in the United States. Influenza A viruses are the only influenza viruses known to cause flu pandemics, i.e., global epidemics of flu disease

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/viruses/types.htm

The fact that the novel coronavirus appeared in the middle of flu season has prompted inevitable comparisons. Is COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus, pretty much similar to the flu or does it pose a far greater threat?

Although there are still many unknowns about COVID-19, there is some solid information from researchers that sheds light on some of the similarities and differences at this time.

Symptoms

Fever, dry cough, fatigue and shortness of breath. These are the most frequent symptoms of COVID-19. Some patients might develop aches and pains; just 5% get the sniffles, according to data from China — indicating that COVID-19 is not usually an upper respiratory infection.

These are all symptoms that overlap with flu. The Centers for Disease Control says that anyone who is experiencing these symptoms and who has been in direct contact with a confirmed COVID-19 patient, or who lives in an area where cases are circulating, should call their doctor for advice.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/03/20/815408287/how-the-novel-coronavirus-and-the-flu-are-alike-and-different

You should have been doing this research before.  Then perhaps you would realize, 371 cases in one state in 3 weeks is hardly something to worry about.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 21:17:23
Rella, the flu is a VIRUS and Corona is a VIRUS. No one has said Corona is a flu. It has flu-like symptoms.

In my view, until we KNOW the deaths/cases ratio, we need to cool it. We are no where near the the catastrophe that the worldwide swine flue was just 10 years ago. The urgency is to make Trump look bad for the rabid media. Remember the calls that this will be his Katrina. Well why wasn’t the swine flu Obama’s Katrina? Because the media had a collective tingle down their leg for Obama. However trashing the Trump economy over this is worth it apparently. People will suffer, even die because of the economic calamity this is bringing at a mind boggling speed. As good as our economy was, it was fragile as a snowflake as we are 22 Trillion in debt under this kind of pressure we are now teetering!

This virus may well be the killer we fear, but until we know the denominator to the death/cases ratio, we are   Risking WAY too much in screeching the economy to an overnight halt. If this ratio ends up in the range of the swine flu, we have over reacted badly AND catapulted ourselves into an unprecedented  and unnecessary recession or depression over way fewer deaths than we have routinely on an annual basis from whatever flu is in vogue. But if it kills the Trump presidency at the same time, it may be worth it to some, especially in light of the shameless  snot slinging fervor of the Left/Media after they have embarrasingly lost on EVERY attempt to nail him.

The country has lost it’s mind. And I don’t think it was happenstance.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 22:05:05
Singapore Coronavirus song:

https://youtu.be/wYlm-k8XaJ0
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Sat Mar 21, 2020 - 23:44:48
Rella, the flu is a VIRUS and Corona is a VIRUS. No one has said Corona is a flu. It has flu-like symptoms.

In my view, until we KNOW the deaths/cases ratio, we need to cool it. We are no where near the the catastrophe that the worldwide swine flue was just 10 years ago. The urgency is to make Trump look bad for the rabid media. Remember the calls that this will be his Katrina. Well why wasn’t the swine flu Obama’s Katrina? Because the media had a collective tingle down their leg for Obama. However trashing the Trump economy over this is worth it apparently. People will suffer, even die because of the economic calamity this is bringing at a mind boggling speed. As good as our economy was, it was fragile as a snowflake as we are 22 Trillion in debt under this kind of pressure we are now teetering!

This virus may well be the killer we fear, but until we know the denominator to the death/cases ratio, we are   Risking WAY too much in screeching the economy to an overnight halt. If this ratio ends up in the range of the swine flu, we have over reacted badly AND catapulted ourselves into an unprecedented  and unnecessary recession or depression over way fewer deaths than we have routinely on an annual basis from whatever flu is in vogue. But if it kills the Trump presidency at the same time, it may be worth it to some, especially in light of the shameless  snot slinging fervor of the Left/Media after they have embarrasingly lost on EVERY attempt to nail him.

The country has lost it’s mind. And I don’t think it was happenstance.

Watch some of the videos coming out of Italy to see what may be in store for your country. A 2-3% death rate as opposed to a .1% death rate for the flu and more and more younger adults getting very ill and even dying now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 03:48:30
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 06:37:22
Rella, the flu is a VIRUS and Corona is a VIRUS. No one has said Corona is a flu. It has flu-like symptoms.

In my view, until we KNOW the deaths/cases ratio, we need to cool it. We are no where near the the catastrophe that the worldwide swine flue was just 10 years ago. The urgency is to make Trump look bad for the rabid media. Remember the calls that this will be his Katrina. Well why wasn’t the swine flu Obama’s Katrina? Because the media had a collective tingle down their leg for Obama. However trashing the Trump economy over this is worth it apparently. People will suffer, even die because of the economic calamity this is bringing at a mind boggling speed. As good as our economy was, it was fragile as a snowflake as we are 22 Trillion in debt under this kind of pressure we are now teetering!

This virus may well be the killer we fear, but until we know the denominator to the death/cases ratio, we are   Risking WAY too much in screeching the economy to an overnight halt. If this ratio ends up in the range of the swine flu, we have over reacted badly AND catapulted ourselves into an unprecedented  and unnecessary recession or depression over way fewer deaths than we have routinely on an annual basis from whatever flu is in vogue. But if it kills the Trump presidency at the same time, it may be worth it to some, especially in light of the shameless  snot slinging fervor of the Left/Media after they have embarrasingly lost on EVERY attempt to nail him.

The country has lost it’s mind. And I don’t think it was happenstance.

Yes I know that Jaime,

I used possible inappropriate wording when I said flu v virus.

The common cold is a virus. As is influenza. As well as covid 19. While all 3 have similar symptoms, they cannot even be tested in the same way.

But what I was trying to say there are vast differences between the flu and this virus. That is why having had a flu shot this is
will not slow or lessen the effect of covid 19.

But the flu shot can and will quite often aid in reducing the severity of a common cold. I am one of those lucky ones that has benefited on that score. Praise God I have not had a bad cold in 7 years since getting the "high dose" flu shot.

But Covid 19 is unaffected by anything that treats a flu or cold.

It simply should not be compared to the flu, and how many people die from influenza each year.

Yes, flu is a virus, but not all viruses are a flu.

Quote
The country has lost it’s mind. And I don’t think it was happenstance.

Guaranteed.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 06:40:36
You should have been doing this research before.  Then perhaps you would realize, 371 cases in one state in 3 weeks is hardly something to worry about.

MARCH 2 there were 2 cases.  MARCH 21 371.

Quite a multiplier and if left unchecked I go back to Rev 6:8
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 06:50:14
Rella, I never had the flu until I started taking the flu shot.

Chosenone, Italy has no way of knowing that it is a 2 to 3 percent kill rate without adequate testing of the population which NO COUNTRY has at this point. If they don’t have an accurate denominator, they can’t calculate the actual kill rate. I have heard the 2 to 3 percent kill rate, but that is unknowable without an accurate number of known cases to compare to the deaths.

Yes, with even the common flu that kills thousands each year, reasonable social distancing and good hygiene is paramount, but voluntary economic suicide is not.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 06:55:16
Again it depends on the total number of those that TEST positive. THAT NUMBER MAY HAVE BEEN MUCH LARGER THAN SUSPECTED. As TC said a huge population of America had a mysterious respiratory illness with a persistent cough for several months back in November/December. Coulda well been Covid19 because everyone was tested negative for the flu, and their were some deaths.

If we are going to destroy our country and the world in fighting this, we need to KNOW and not guess at what we have. And that is why testing is so critical. It tells you what we have and how bad it is. Without accurate testing, it’s a SWAG (Oil Patch Acronymn for Super Wild Ass Guess). Not a basis for dismantling our economy and turning our country into the Thunderdome. If testing shows the kill rate we fear, THEN commence uber hunkering. Until an adequate measure of the population can be tested (hasn‘t happened in Italy or anywhere else yet) a 2 to 3 percent kill rate is UNKNOWABLE!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:00:30
Tick tock tick tock

You have to ask yourself this

I know more than any other politician, scientist, and disease control officer. I also can alter the course of EVERY country because I can tell them they are wrong and because they are wrong , it’s going to destroy there economy, so stop these games now. I can’t buy toilet paper

I’ve done the maths .....it’s a nothing burger .


Really  wake up

WOW
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:03:42
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

Let's hear more about how you love your abortion queen leader?

How about that truth?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:06:29
Tick tock tick tock

You have to ask yourself this

I know more than any other politician, scientist, and disease control officer. I also can alter the course of EVERY country because I can tell them they are wrong and because they are wrong , it’s going to destroy there economy, so stop these games now. I can’t buy toilet paper

I’ve done the maths .....it’s a nothing burger .


Really  wake up

WOW

Not all leaders or doctors or scientists agree on this.

What isn't a nothing burger is this leader you love using Covid19 to decriminalize abortion.  Perhaps your dreams were about babies being killed in the womb in your own country.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: 4WD on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:07:47
MARCH 2 there were 2 cases.  MARCH 21 371.

Quite a multiplier and if left unchecked I go back to Rev 6:8

From Revelation 6:8, "they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill....."  A fourth of the earth now is nearly 2 billion people.  As of this morning we are at about 13,000 dead.  That is not even a drop in the bucket of 2,000,000,000 people.

Moreover, as of this morning, there have been a little over 300,000 people confirmed infected.  Even that is not a drop in the bucket of 2,000,000,000.

I am not convinced yet that the Chinese did not do this intentionally to destroy the economy of the US and much of the rest of the world. The minor hit they seem to be taking is nothing compared to the US and the west, generally.

I am feeling more and more as if we have stepped into a big pile of "manure", and we will be several years cleaning our boots off if ever.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:44:30
Bemark, this IS absolutely about math. Until we KNOW The denominator of the deaths to cases ratio, we are guessing. A d adequate testing will help us determine an accurate ration. The lack of adequate has been readily admitted to. In the meantime countries spouting a ratio of 2 to 3 percent is unknowable. Toilet paper is NOT the issue. The ability to feed and shelter ourselves certainly is.

Reasonable precautions  are necessary whether it is 2 to 3 percent or 1/10 of 1 percent kill rate.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:45:47
From Revelation 6:8, "they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill....."  A fourth of the earth now is nearly 2 billion people.  As of this morning we are at about 13,000 dead.  That is not even a drop in the bucket of 2,000,000,000 people.

Moreover, as of this morning, there have been a little over 300,000 people confirmed infected.  Even that is not a drop in the bucket of 2,000,000,000.

I am not convinced yet that the Chinese did not do this intentionally to destroy the economy of the US and much of the rest of the world. The minor hit they seem to be taking is nothing compared to the US and the west, generally.

I am feeling more and more as if we have stepped into a big pile of "manure", and we will be several years cleaning our boots off if ever.

Scientists warn we may need to live with social distancing for a year or more

You KNOW they wont.............

Researchers say we face a horrible choice: practice social distancing for months or a year, or let hundreds of thousands die.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/17/21181694/coronavirus-covid-19-lockdowns-end-how-long-months-years

Rev 6-8 does not say this or anything by itself ...

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

With the sword.... (ie weapons) as in wars, or even civil unrest?

With hunger.... there are famines in this world. People dying from lack of food

With death... from whatever caused them to die...

And then enter

With beasts of the earth.

Try doing a total of the first three on an annual basis and then add in how many might die from this if it goes unchecked....
You might be amazed at how close we truly are getting.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:47:02
Bemark, this IS absolutely about math. Until we KNOW The denominator of the deaths to cases ratio, we are guessing. A d adequate testing will help us determine an accurate ration. The lack of adequate has been readily admitted to. In the meantime countries spouting a ratio of 2 to 3 percent is unknowable. Toilet paper is not the issue. The ability to feed and shelter ourselves certainly is.

True.

But then there are 2 cases in PA this AM who are trying to be tested. They have the symptom. They are being denied. ::pondering::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:50:20
Scientists warn we may need to live with social distancing for a year or more

You KNOW they wont.............

Researchers say we face a horrible choice: practice social distancing for months or a year, or let hundreds of thousands die.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/17/21181694/coronavirus-covid-19-lockdowns-end-how-long-months-years

Rev 6-8 does not say this or anything by itself ...

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

With the sword.... (ie weapons) as in wars, or even civil unrest?

With hunger.... there are famines in this world. People dying from lack of food

With death... from whatever caused them to die...

And then enter

With beasts of the earth.

Try doing a total of the first three on an annual basis and then add in how many might die from this if it goes unchecked....
You might be amazed at how close we truly are getting.

You sure flip flop on this issue.  Is everyone gonna die or is the government response an overreaction?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 07:56:32
They don’t know this without adequate testing Rella. We ain’t there in testing yet. Doctors tell us this. My doctor told me this. Without knowing the kill rate we are in the dark. In the meantime don’t lick any doorknobs.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:01:54
They son’t know this without adequate testing Rella. We ain’t there in testing yet. Doctors tell us this. My doctor told me this. Without knowing the kill rate we are in the dark. In the meantime don’t lick any doorknobs.

My bet is there are 10+ people with zero to mild symptoms out there with COVID19 for every positive test.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:05:01
 https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=5QbTvxxD-Q4 (https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=5QbTvxxD-Q4)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:21:05
Bemark, this IS absolutely about math. Until we KNOW The denominator of the deaths to cases ratio, we are guessing. A d adequate testing will help us determine an accurate ration. The lack of adequate has been readily admitted to. In the meantime countries spouting a ratio of 2 to 3 percent is unknowable. Toilet paper is NOT the issue. The ability to feed and shelter ourselves certainly is.

Reasonable precautions  are necessary whether it is 2 to 3 percent or 1/10 of 1 percent kill rate.

But now we have Italy ...o but they are just old and flabby. We know Iran is lying as well.

So now we know best than those whom are in the know. They probably have secret service people in all those places given back real information . Think about that one.

No no no they just ALL trash there economy and the rich people let them...duh

I’m a engineer and I work in facts and logic to problem solve every day of my life. A sole charge maintenance fitter for a major food company that makes your baked beans and sauce. You probably guessed who.  . 6 on 2 off , 12 hour shifts running 5-7 lines a  night.No one else but me , no one comes in to save the day.  I can figure stuff out real fast based on trends. USA will go bang in a few more weeks and in 6 weeks will be screwed. They will close cities before then.

Think about it. Based on the figures THEY HAVE they are closing us down. Use logic and reasoning
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:29:39
my Power bill is going up....it’s costing me a extra 50 dollars a month. Wow it’s now climbing to 60 dollars.

Well let’s just see what it will be at the end of the year .200?

Nope ...the first 50 you are looking at your pressure releasing valve or you pressure reducing valve based on the system you have , after you have checked your taps for obvious signs . You need to understand figures but also be able to see trends that rise sharply. If not blah blah blah why am I broke

If we wait until we see a complete graph we are screwed.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:35:41
What did China do? What did Italy do


They shut shop

I posted all the stuff that happened . Now people are saying why is this happening it just the media hype.

Go back and look it up. I showed you web sites that gave the trends . Peak prosperity was one of them.

Now we scratch our head and say why.....sorry for being blunt but sometimes I have to shut a machine down to change a bearing or repair a dodgy pneumatic 5 port valve to increase efficiency due to mechanical losses. Based on numbers .
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:41:11
In 1 and 1/2 months 0-100,000 cases

In 12 extra days 100,000-200,000 cases

In 2 extra days 200,000-250,000 cases

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:44:12
China likely just took all the sick ones out and shot them to bring their numbers down.

When we get adequate testing we will KNOW and  can respond with more measures. In the meantime, let’s take reasonable measures to prevent the spread. I have WAY IMPROVED MY HAND WASHING, which is the big one. Be careful at work or work at home if it’s possible. It’s not necessary to destroy ourselves.

Bemark, it’s all about total number of cases, and we can’t know that without proper testing. That compared to the number of deaths to get the kill rate. Like TC said I belive a HUGE number of people have mild cases or cases with NO symptoms.

So far we don’t know the kill rate.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:46:47
We are now on 319,614 cases + 8 because it just came in..

13,639 deaths

Mon 23rd March

USA

26,909 cases.  348 Dead. Recovered 178.

We will see what is in 1 weeks time you have just nudged the ice-burg . You are seeing  the top of it

Hang on
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 08:53:43
China likely just took all the sick ones out and shot them to bring their numbers down.

When we get adequate testing we will KNOW and  can respond with more measures. In the meantime, let’s take measures to prevent the spread. I have WAY IMPROVED MY HAND WASHING, which is the big one. Be careful at work or work at home if it’s possible. It’s not necessary to destroy ourselves.
there exponential curve took a sideways right with no growth. Ok they are saying it’s all fine . North Koreans Russia border still closed. “ China in focus” another good website . Yeah right they are leaving them to rot. All nurses and doctors leaving since we cured covid.  19. Monkey see no evil hear no evil tell no evil. CCP lies . Hashtag China lies People die.

They must have watched Kim from North Korea. The best medical plan out there. Line up heads forward.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:05:40
The estimate flue numbers and predict this and that.

What we know is REAL death and CASE results from Covid 19.

If China was a open book we would have sooner figures. Look at that Iranian leader who been coughing and sippin water like a lizard. USA wanted to help. He thinks there pills will make Covid 19 last longer.

We lie and dont trust each other......that’s why people hoard. They really don’t believe there own government. Don’t panic buy ....there’s plenty of grub..

You have to plant the seed. Harvest the seed. Process the outcome , then transport it. Then sell it. O but you can work from home and we will just print money. Lol

Everyone’s at home thinking father xmas is going to keep bring presents. If this Covid 19 carries on people have to get back to work. Wave 2 China set there workers home again.

Wave 3 and 4 ?

 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:29:31
The estimate flue numbers and predict this and that.

What we know is REAL death and CASE results from Covid 19.

If China was a open book we would have sooner figures. Look at that Iranian leader who been coughing and sippin water like a lizard. USA wanted to help. He thinks there pills will make Covid 19 last longer.

We lie and dont trust each other......that’s why people hoard. They really don’t believe there own government. Don’t panic buy ....there’s plenty of grub..

You have to plant the seed. Harvest the seed. Process the outcome , then transport it. Then sell it. O but you can work from home and we will just print money. Lol

Everyone’s at home thinking father xmas is going to keep bring presents. If this Covid 19 carries on people have to get back to work. Wave 2 China set there workers home again.

Wave 3 and 4 ?

Wave 3 - terrible leader in NZ uses opportunity of potential pandemic to decriminalize abortion.

Wave 4 - lots of dead babies in womb in NZ
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:34:27
T C u need better bait than that. Ok I sniffed it
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:36:23
But now we have Italy ...o but they are just old and flabby. We know Iran is lying as well.

So now we know best than those whom are in the know. They probably have secret service people in all those places given back real information . Think about that one.

No no no they just ALL trash there economy and the rich people let them...duh

I’m a engineer and I work in facts and logic to problem solve every day of my life. A sole charge maintenance fitter for a major food company that makes your baked beans and sauce. You probably guessed who.  . 6 on 2 off , 12 hour shifts running 5-7 lines a  night.No one else but me , no one comes in to save the day.  I can figure stuff out real fast based on trends. USA will go bang in a few more weeks and in 6 weeks will be screwed. They will close cities before then.

Think about it. Based on the figures THEY HAVE they are closing us down. Use logic and reasoning

Jaime is an engineer.  I am an engineer too.  I don't fix things.  My work is even more numbers, equations, and logic than most.

Besides, neither Jaime or I have claimed to have some prophetic experience that underlies our position.

13,000+  deaths in five months worldwide.  We get 36,000+ every year in the states from just the flu. 

Don't tell me about logic, bucko.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:39:15
T C u need better bait than that. Ok I sniffed it

I didn't talk about how I loved a leader who is opening Pandora's box on killing children.  That was you.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:47:58
Bemark, the experts readily admit they don’t know the kill ratio without testing sample which we haven’t got yet. Which is ironically why they are trying to rush the testing kits. We already have done much without dynamiting the Economy.

It’s NOT some unknowable algorithm, it is deaths divided by known cases. When we have a reasonable feel for known cases through sampling and testing, we will know for sure.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 09:58:49
Omg Finally . I love our prime minister Jacinda Ardern . She is so amazing

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120423903/coronavirus-prime-minister-to-make-announcement-on-border-controls
TC was this the quote you was referring to?

Where does it say anything about babies getting killed by abortion and me endorsing it?

It was about the leading labour government shutting down borders to prevent the spread of Covid 19.

Gone form a fisherman to a hunter to now a seed planter. What next ?

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:02:19
What has the PM said in the past about abortion? I didn’t assume TC was referring to the link. What the PM has said is of the public record I assume.

No need to be a hunter, or gatherer, we do need to be thinkers. When someone starts talking about kill ratio of this disease dissect it a little. How did they come up with a kill rate when testing is still in the scramble stage.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:06:35
TC was this the quote you was referring to?

Where does it say anything about babies getting killed by abortion and me endorsing it?

It was about the leading labour government shutting down borders to prevent the spread of Covid 19.

Gone form a fisherman to a hunter to now a seed planter. What next ?

Even if I liked an action by a leader in my country, they would not get my love for using such a crises to decriminalize abortion.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-51955148
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:10:13
Apparently some of the benevolent mob of Dems tried to hide some abortion crap in our Covid 19 bill. Wonderful pure hearted people, huh?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:16:57
The kill rate for this virus is similar to velocity of an object moving. Distance traveled divided by elapsed time = miles per hour or velicity. If you had no time elapsed to put in the denominator, the velocity would be unknowable. Unknown number of cases result in unknowable kill rate. Total number of cases is only known from adequate testing of a large enough and diverse enough sample. Hopefully soon we will have that testing capability.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:17:39
Bemark, the experts readily admit they don’t know the kill ratio without testing sample which we haven’t got yet. Which is ironically why they are trying to rush the testing kits. We already have done much without dynamiting the Economy.

It’s NOT some unknowable algorithm, it is deaths divided by known cases. When we have a reasonable feel for known cases through sampling and testing, we will know for sure.
feel free to approach every single paper and spread the word, I know best . I know some really good companies who export world class machined parts around the world. We have used them to make exact copies by size for lobe pumps. Due to the fine clearances that need to run milk based products and then tomato grinding paste products they wear out. So instead of getting the exact one , we thought let’s get it made . It’s all about the steel and how it expands and contracts. Also they wear out a lot faster. There are people who know stuff and really they do. But then there are the experts who are the best in the world and have learnt from 30- 50 years what works best.

We have to believe that the worlds entire best people are working on this . Upon their advise we are shutting down. Not one countries best. All of the countries best together . Better than all the rest.

Feel free to bring them your paper on numbers.

Who are we to argue ? Sure we can whine about it based upon what they release to us.

Its like a production manager whining about the pump was only replaced a year ago. 40,000 for just a small pump. Can’t some one do better?

No they can’t
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:21:23
Still the kill ratio is unknowable without adequate testing. The experts admit that. Next? Which is why the private sector and government are working so hard on it.

People that claim a certain kill ratio now are not truthful. If they knew the kill ratio, why the all out effort to bring the testing kits to the public? We HAVE to know that ratio within reason and FOR a reason.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:35:54
the experts readily admit they don’t know the kill ratio without testing sample which we haven’t got yet.



We have kits inPA for those with symptoms.

Primary care docs, in 90% of the cases need to refer you for testing.

That one couple who claims to have the symptoms but is denied testing does not have a primary care.

Why they would not show up at a hospital  emergency room , as an uninsured I dont know.

But it almost seems as if they do not want to know, in reality.

I have symptoms.. but no fever. My symptoms are my seasonal allergies ramping up.

But while you say kill ratio is unknowable without adequate testing ... do you mean that if 325 million are tested, 150 million are positive and the result is only 75 thousand death that the death rate is low enough to get back to normal life?

I do not care about the ration or percentage, I care what it means for people who are most susceptible... and being in a selfish mood on this one... me ... as I do have lung issues from pulmonary embolism in 91 and respiratory problems
are incredibly uncomfortable and even painful for me.  ::tippinghat::

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:48:20
They need to test large blocks of the population not just those with symptoms. Many people such as the stranded cruise ship passengers were tested positive BUT with NO symptoms. The total number must be known, symptoms or not, or reasonably be extrapolated from a large and diverse sampling. As TC stated, many people are testing positive with mild or no symptoms. We must have a good scientific testing to know where we are on the spectrum, not just pick the ones with the worst symptoms.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:52:09
Still the kill ratio is unknowable without adequate testing. The experts admit that. Next? Which is why the private sector and government are working so hard on it.

People that claim a certain kill ratio now are not truthful. If they knew the kill ratio, why the all out effort to bring the testing kits to the public? We HAVE to know that ratio within reason and FOR a reason.
The test kits are needed so they can determine case case cluster cluster boom. Upon these numbers a plan would have been implemented. 

Like isolate individual
Group
Town
City
Region
 country

No one was ready for this. No one . China could have given us real information

CCP party first

Economy second

Third did I hear some one cry when I burnt them alive

Nothing to,see here move on
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:54:45
Or dragged them out of the womb!

Maybe we have failed in the past with the hundreds of thousands of flu deaths worldwide. This has NOT been proved to be worse than those. With testing we can KNOW the ratio as well as address the clustering etc.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:56:20
Another reason kits are still few and far between? The kits require specific types of swabs. Most of our medical swabs are made in China. As well as most of our scrubs, hand sanitizer, masks, etc, etc. In fact, China makes these items for most of the world. It's up to China as to which countries they want to supply first. We're not top of the list.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 10:59:16
Apparently some of the benevolent mob of Dems tried to hide some abortion crap in our Covid 19 bill. Wonderful pure hearted people, huh?

They sure did, smh.

But remember - vote blue no matter who!  ::frown:: 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 11:01:29
With the testing kits few and far between, we ARE in the dark as to the severity. That’s all I’m saying. If proper testing shows the kill ratio to be 10 time faster than the flu, then peddle to the metal. Survival first then the economy. Until then, I think it is wise not to self circumcise ourselves with our flint knives, just yet. Wash our hand properly as few did before and practice some common sense. Don’t shake hands, don’t crowd into a crowded doctor’s waiting room. Do takeout  food and drive through grocery pickup. We can be vastly safer without destroying our way of life and means of living. I haven’t been on a farm in 50 years. On a farm, my family could isolate MUCH better.  I work in an office with most every stitch of information I need in paper files. 10 people are on my floor. We don’t typically mingle. People stay home when they get sick. Accountants etc in our company can work from home and should. We ARE getting better about things that we should do to prevent any virus. It CAN be done without falling on the economic sword. Also the news media needs to try reporting something else every so often. Watching the deaths  clicker move from 260 to 261 really is not useful. Same with the stock market news. We go up, we go down. We go down a lot, we go up a lot. Here we are dealing with the Saudi/Russian oil price war that we can do little to nothing about other than fret or keep our noses to the grindstone.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 11:07:39
Let’s see the results of one day in a starting boom.

Now Italy
53,578.  Cases

4825.    Deaths

6072.     Recovered.

Let’s just see in another update 0:55:10 countdown . And about another 20 min cause they are slow.


Because the couldn’t flatten the line so it was under the medical systems ability to,cope.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 11:09:51
This web sites goes into the numbers and explains it well. Maybe not this vid but others


Have a look sometime

https://youtu.be/yOIvGIukZhk
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 11:15:25
And a live feed

Wow11:min ago USA 9,cases

7 min 1545
3 min 30
2 min 6

https://youtu.be/gQ_2r5Mmdao
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 11:22:01
I’m sitting here now with a wuhan wohoo lung infection . Hard to breathe like a gold fish in a bowl. Going back to doctors Tuesday. I hope it’s only bronchitis . Maybe  I got the covid 19

I will keep you all informed .
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 11:26:24
 Bemark without testing they don’t know the total number of cases. Which IS the point. They have a good idea of the worst ones, yes. But the kill is ratio involves THE RATIO TO ALL CASES, as in A-L-L. I hope you don’t have the Chinese virus.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 12:16:01
We have kits inPA for those with symptoms.

Primary care docs, in 90% of the cases need to refer you for testing.

That one couple who claims to have the symptoms but is denied testing does not have a primary care.

Why they would not show up at a hospital  emergency room , as an uninsured I dont know.

But it almost seems as if they do not want to know, in reality.

I have symptoms.. but no fever. My symptoms are my seasonal allergies ramping up.

But while you say kill ratio is unknowable without adequate testing ... do you mean that if 325 million are tested, 150 million are positive and the result is only 75 thousand death that the death rate is low enough to get back to normal life?

I do not care about the ration or percentage, I care what it means for people who are most susceptible... and being in a selfish mood on this one... me ... as I do have lung issues from pulmonary embolism in 91 and respiratory problems
are incredibly uncomfortable and even painful for me.  ::tippinghat::

No one wants anyone to die, but 75,000 isn't that far off from a flu death count in one of the last ten years.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 12:29:53
We didn’t flinch from 10s of thousands of deaths the last 10 or more years with the flu. In 2010, we had 60 million infections and 15,000 deaths in the  USA alone. Every one a tragedy. The world had 500,000 deaths from the swine flu that year. Lots of death for sure. Not to be an anti swine-ite. We live with “acceptable” levels of fatalities on MANY things and maintain societal  normalcy without all out panic. If something don’t get us, we will regret living so long, right?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 14:16:25
The "flu" shouldn't be used as a generalization for a single disease, there are many types of influenza with new ones appearing each year. This virus just so happens to be deadlier than any single variation of the flu.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 14:31:50
The "flu" shouldn't be used as a generalization for a single disease, there are many types of influenza with new ones appearing each year. This virus just so happens to be deadlier than any single variation of the flu.

We don't know that yet.  Lack of testing and no final outcome prevents that determination until more data is available.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 14:45:48
If something don’t get us, we will regret living so long, right?

Yes, something has to take us out of this life.

I just wish it would be as less painful as possible.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 15:10:56
California, Illinois, NJ, and now Ohio have shelter in place orders. Over 1/4 of US population.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 15:13:25
Add New York, Connecticut, and Oregon to that list. 

Pennsylvania is close.  Not counties city orders, we are looking at about 1/3 of US population already.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 17:55:32
How TC's kids are spending the quarantine-

https://twitter.com/captain35chaos/status/1241355981470212096
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 18:16:08
How TC's kids are spending the quarantine-

https://twitter.com/captain35chaos/status/1241355981470212096

We don't sing like that in our household. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 18:20:48
We don't sing like that in our household.

Sorry to hear that. Maybe try voice lessons.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 18:21:57
This one's better:

My Corona!

https://youtu.be/uo7HB-slsm4
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 21:51:35
NZ is going into full lockdown

https://amp.tvnz.co.nz/news/story/JTJGY29udGVudCUyRnR2bnolMkZvbmVuZXdzJTJGc3RvcnklMkYyMDIwJTJGMDMlMkYyMyUyRnBtLXNwZWVjaA==

I’m off to see the doctors tomorrow , I will be met at the door with all there covid 19 ppe on. Continuous Hacking cough and headaches .

No matter What.  God is Good all the time.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 22:03:22
Yrs, God is good and has this under control. I will be praying for you Mark.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 22:07:28
Thank you my friend .

God bless us all
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 22:40:43
WHAT would everyone say is the difference in this pandemic and the Swine Flu pandemic of 2009/2010 other than the statistics? With the swine flu, America had 60 MILLION infected, 300,000 hospitalized and 16,000 dead? And with very little panic and relatively little economic meltdown with way worse statistics? Am I the only one that is curious?

Current best estimates are that Kung Flu is about twice as contagious as Swine Flu, with a best-case CFR about 1%.

That implies roughly 120 million infected and 1.2 MILLION dead.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 22, 2020 - 22:42:35
This one seems different I think because it is so contagious.

Even first responders are being hit and causing a reduction in those responding to certain things. Such as less firemen at a fire. Which makes one wonder,with all they wear how we can protect ourselves.

A handful of cases in PA that grew to 371 in the past 3 weeks.

A lot of that is because of increased testing.  Many of those cases were already present but undiagnosed.

Quote
Also, this is not a flu. It is a virus.

Flu is also a virus.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 02:55:53
WHAT would everyone say is the difference in this pandemic and the Swine Flu pandemic of 2009/2010 other than the statistics? With the swine flu, America had 60 MILLION infected, 300,000 hospitalized and 16,000 dead? And with very little panic and relatively little economic meltdown with way worse statistics? Am I the only one that is curious?

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-pandemic-vs-swine-flu.html
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 06:31:17
Rand Paul is self quarantined after resting positive.

Then came the announcement that  Republican Senators Mike Lee and Mitt Romney are self quarantining also. Plus 2 more unnamed as of this morning.


Coronavirus Stimulus Bill Snags As Five GOP Senators Enter Self-Quarantine

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/gops-usd1-8-trillion-coronavirus-stimulus-deal-now-in-doubt.html

This makes voting in the Senate to be 48 R to 47 D

NOt to worry. Chuckie will hold the fort cause now Queen Nancy, back from her weekend holiday came riding into Washington with 'her own bill".

I just wonder why the market did not rebound after the 400 dip overnight after the failed senate bill.

Gueen Nancy is going to kiss it and make it alright. Dont they know that?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 06:32:52
The number of cases testing POSITIVE for Coronavirus jumped more then 100 overnight from yesterday .::eatingpopcorn:

In PPA ::eatingpopcorn:
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 06:47:11
The number of cases testing POSITIVE for Coronavirus jumped more then 100 overnight from yesterday. ::eatingpopcorn:

And that means absolutely nothing.

There are limited tests.  The rules for testing in my area is to even be tested, you have to be at risk (over 65), then you need to have symptoms, and have traveled or been in contact with someone who traveled.  Otherwise, if you have symptoms you are to assume you have it and self quarantine.

This means testing is telling us a very incomplete story.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 06:49:28
Current best estimates are that Kung Flu is about twice as contagious as Swine Flu, with a best-case CFR about 1%.

That implies roughly 120 million infected and 1.2 MILLION dead.

Key word:. Estimate.  The data on current number of illnesses is flawed.  We aren't testing enough.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 06:55:02
I agree TC, good testing of a large diverse sample will give us data to determine the kill rate and ration to the number oc cases. Now one has to have symptoms to be considered testable. The number of non-symptomatic cases or mild symptoms is unknown, but essential to know in order to calculate or extrapolate a rate of fatalities as compared to the number of cases. We may well find the kill rate to be extraordinary. I am NOT saying it won’t be. We just don’t know for sure.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 07:12:19
And that means absolutely nothing.

There are limited tests.  The rules for testing in my area is to even be tested, you have to be at risk (over 65), then you need to have symptoms, and have traveled or been in contact with someone who traveled.  Otherwise, if you have symptoms you are to assume you have it and self quarantine.

This means testing is telling us a very incomplete story.

A 20% increase in cases... in 1 day.

I dont care if it is from  more testing.  The MORE testing came a week after the alleged shut down of non essential businesses in PA.

Seems a week of being house bound and schools being close is not slowing things down.

I think it is a wasted effort to shut down so much.

Even our local hospital, partnered with Cleveland Clinic has stopped all visitors.. and try to see someone who died at a funeral home... ::doh::

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 07:15:43
As I understand it, SoKo and that one cruise ship are considered good data sources because of comprehensive testing.

SoKo suggests a best-case scenario of 1% CFR, about 10x the most we'd expect with flu.

Having said that -- I'm almost 60, have HBP; take an ACE-inhibitor daily; take ibuprofen daily (arthritis and sciatica); have a 20-year cough from allergies, exacerbated by Lisinopril since last autumn (a notorious side-effect).  I am almost certainly in the "at-risk" category.

Even after having the Worst Flu Ever for about six weeks from the end of December through much of February, I object to Dear Leader Wolf shutting down PA.

And if it does turn out that Butt Munchin is right and the lockdown lasts twelve weeks (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-u-s-coronavirus-lockdown-could-last-10-12-weeks-treasury-secretary-says), neither the economy nor society in general will *ever* recover.  The attempted cure will literally be worse than the disease.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 07:27:41
As I understand it, SoKo and that one cruise ship are considered good data sources because of comprehensive testing.

SoKo suggests a best-case scenario of 1% CFR, about 10x the most we'd expect with flu.

Having said that -- I'm almost 60, have HBP; take an ACE-inhibitor daily; take ibuprofen daily (arthritis and sciatica); have a 20-year cough from allergies, exacerbated by Lisinopril since last autumn (a notorious side-effect).  I am almost certainly in the "at-risk" category.

Even after having the Worst Flu Ever for about six weeks from the end of December through much of February, I object to Dear Leader Wolf shutting down PA.

And if it does turn out that Butt Munchin is right and the lockdown lasts twelve weeks (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-u-s-coronavirus-lockdown-could-last-10-12-weeks-treasury-secretary-says), neither the economy nor society in general will *ever* recover.  The attempted cure will literally be worse than the disease.

Your flu in December, was it tested to be flu?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 07:44:36
Looks like Michigan is next.

https://www.wxyz.com/news/coronavirus/gov-whitmer-to-announce-stay-at-home-order-monday
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 07:45:54
As I understand it, SoKo and that one cruise ship are considered good data sources because of comprehensive testing.

SoKo suggests a best-case scenario of 1% CFR, about 10x the most we'd expect with flu.

Having said that -- I'm almost 60, have HBP; take an ACE-inhibitor daily; take ibuprofen daily (arthritis and sciatica); have a 20-year cough from allergies, exacerbated by Lisinopril since last autumn (a notorious side-effect).  I am almost certainly in the "at-risk" category.

Even after having the Worst Flu Ever for about six weeks from the end of December through much of February, I object to Dear Leader Wolf shutting down PA.

And if it does turn out that Butt Munchin is right and the lockdown lasts twelve weeks (https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-u-s-coronavirus-lockdown-could-last-10-12-weeks-treasury-secretary-says), neither the economy nor society in general will *ever* recover.  The attempted cure will literally be worse than the disease.

Amen, brother....

Totally agree.

Plus 1
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 08:09:33
Everybody I knew had a persistent hacking cough with mild flu like symptoms with some fever in Nov/Dec 2019 and DID NOT test positive for the flu. I suspect a lot of us already had Corona.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 09:55:47
Everybody I knew had a persistent hacking cough with mild flu like symptoms with some fever in Nov/Dec 2019 and DID NOT test positive for the flu. I suspect a lot of us already had Corona.

Hmmmm...

China may be right.

We may have had infected people who took it there.
Title: How sad.
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:22:24
Extremist Groups Encouraging Members to Spread Virus to Jews, Police

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/extremist-coronavirus-virus-jewish/2020/03/22/id/959451/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM99167_03232020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010102zm3c6t

I find it so difficult to love these people.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:28:44
We are officially locked down in Michigan.

Shelter in place.  But I still do everything I was doing before.  Like go to grocery store, gas station, pickup to go food, etc.  "Essential" things.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:44:03
We are officially locked down in Michigan.

Shelter in place.  But I still do everything I was doing before.  Like go to grocery store, gas station, pickup to go food, etc.  "Essential" things.

How many Re[ubiccan Governors and Mayors are doing this... do you know?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:51:13
How many Re[ubiccan Governors and Mayors are doing this... do you know?

The  Governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine is a Republican.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:52:08
A light at the end of our house arrests?

POTUS said this cannot go on and at the end of the 15 days he mentioned... will be soon... end of this week?
He will reevaluate.

In the meantime....

Do I or don't I go the Rock N'Remember show April 11?

So far it is not cancelled cause our 2 weeks is up Monday or Tuesday
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:53:23
The  Governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine is a Republican.

Right. I forgot.  He always seems so anti-PoTUS like Kasich so out of sight out of mind.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 10:55:30
A light at the end of our house arrests?

POTUS said this cannot go on and at the end of the 15 days he mentioned... will be soon... end of this week?
He will reevaluate.

In the meantime....

Do I or don't I go the Rock N'Remember show April 11?

So far it is not cancelled cause our 2 weeks is up Monday or Tuesday

We have three weeks in this current order.  Ends at Midnight, the start of April 14th.
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: The Barbarian on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 12:32:28
Half-wits.    What they don't realize, is spreading the virus increases the likelihood that they will die.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 12:59:33
We have three weeks in this current order.  Ends at Midnight, the start of April 14th.

That is good that you actually have been told a specific end point.




Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 13:14:24
That is good that you actually have been told a specific end point.

That's under the current order.  With different data, it could change.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 13:44:57
I doubt we get to an official shelter at home status here in Oklahoma. We've only had 2 deaths, and no one seems to be in a panic over anything except toilet paper.
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 14:07:22
It also looks like some of our Gen Z dingbats are starting up a "corona challenge" and posting videos of their antics online. Licking public toilets, licking and spitting on items at the grocery stores - including unwrapped, fresh veggies, etc.
Every generation has their attention seeking daredevils, but these dares/challenges have changed from doing something stupid that could hurt yourself, to doing stuff that could bring great harm to others. smh
Social media is a big part of the escalating dare/challenge craze, IMO.


Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 14:20:24
It also looks like some of our Gen Z dingbats are starting up a "corona challenge" and posting videos of their antics online. Licking public toilets, licking and spitting on items at the grocery stores - including unwrapped, fresh veggies, etc.
Every generation has their attention seeking daredevils, but these dares/challenges have changed from doing something stupid that could hurt yourself, to doing stuff that could bring great harm to others. smh
Social media is a big part of the escalating dare/challenge craze, IMO.

If they are just increasing their immunity that's fine.  Although, some part of me says lets isolate the old fellars and anyone at risk and just Chicken Pox this virus to herd immunity right now.  Other than at risk folks, we all congregate with some folks that are positive, get this virus over for good.
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: The Barbarian on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 16:44:14
If they are just increasing their immunity that's fine.  Although, some part of me says lets isolate the old fellars and anyone at risk and just Chicken Pox this virus to herd immunity right now.  Other than at risk folks, we all congregate with some folks that are positive, get this virus over for good.

Here's the problem...

Yes, Young People Are Falling Seriously Ill From Covid-19

In the U.S., 705 of first 2,500 cases range in age from 20 to 44.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/coronavirus-in-young-people-is-it-dangerous-data-show-it-can-be

If it wasn't for the idiots increasing exposure to everyone, it would be natural selection in action, culling the herd of the slow and the stupid.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 16:45:26
I doubt we get to an official shelter at home status here in Oklahoma. We've only had 2 deaths, and no one seems to be in a panic over anything except toilet paper.

I hope you never do.

A neighbor just called that our Governor on the noon news today added 2 more weeks to our only essential businesses can be open.

That will be a total of 4 weeks. 1 voluntary and 3 specifically ordered.

Truth be told... I will have every drawer and closet totally organized by the time I am out of house arrest. rofl

Yet Schumer and Comapny, along with Queen Nancy are holding up that relief package...

Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 17:13:19
Here's the problem...

Yes, Young People Are Falling Seriously Ill From Covid-19

In the U.S., 705 of first 2,500 cases range in age from 20 to 44.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/coronavirus-in-young-people-is-it-dangerous-data-show-it-can-be

If it wasn't for the idiots increasing exposure to everyone, it would be natural selection in action, culling the herd of the slow and the stupid.

You are good at googling and being wrong.  We are barely testing anyone so you don't have a clue.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 19:23:05
Just streamed Tucker and listened to Dan Patrick. I'm in tears. He said what I've been trying to put into words for a few days now.

I don't want to leave my four grandchildren a United States that's in a Depression. I'll take the risk. Let's get back to living our lives - and soon - not months from now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 19:31:24
Amen.

My feelings exactly:

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIz4y7ni_Go (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIz4y7ni_Go)

We CANNOT ruin our economy over 5,000 deaths or 50,000 deaths from Covid19 or the annual flu, EVEN if I am one of the fatalities being in the high risk group. We HAVE or at least I HAVE learned to put into practice much better hygiene and social distancing to protect myself.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 21:24:09
I can certainly sympathize with people that are feeling economical set-backs during this time, or people that feel the aftermath will be a long road to recovering the economy as it was but I also cannot seem to find a reasonable method of how to simply resume life as it was prior to this issue. Do we completely restore all closures of businesses and educational facilities? What will our part be ensuring that our fellow citizens are kept safe while many other parts of the world are feeling the full effects of this disease?
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: Alan on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 21:39:15
Seeing more and more stories of younger people dying from this disease, the myth that only the older folks are at risk needs to be put to rest.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 21:43:36
I have a sneaking hunch that Chloroquine and zithromycin therapy is going to be our ticket.
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: The Barbarian on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 22:26:34
Among 44 cases with known outcome, 15 (34%) deaths were reported among adults aged ≥85 years, 20 (46%) among adults aged 65–84 years, and nine (20%) among adults aged 20–64 years. Case-fatality percentages increased with increasing age, from no deaths reported among persons aged ≤19 years to highest percentages (10%–27%) among adults aged ≥85 years (Table) (Figure 2).
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 22:29:15
What numbers are you seeing? No age group is totally immune to coronavirus. In fact, the young are more likely to contract the virus than the old - however the young are much less likely to have complications from coronavirus and die. They say that's why they're closing schools, even though it appears to be a mild illness in children - because the children tend to have no symptoms and pass it on to the elderly who tend to have the more serious complications.

Here are the latest death rates by age.

As you can see, the coronavirus is no more deadly for the young than a typical flu year.

(https://i.imgur.com/ekvKYq6.png)

Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 22:32:16
Seeing more and more stories of younger people dying from this disease, the myth that only the older folks are at risk needs to be put to rest.

I think that it's a straw man to push that anyone is actively saying that "only the older folks are at risk."

Conventional wisdom and the data support that the mortality rate is much higher for older, infirm individuals.
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 22:34:13
Among 44 cases with known outcome, 15 (34%) deaths were reported among adults aged ≥85 years, 20 (46%) among adults aged 65–84 years, and nine (20%) among adults aged 20–64 years. Case-fatality percentages increased with increasing age, from no deaths reported among persons aged ≤19 years to highest percentages (10%–27%) among adults aged ≥85 years (Table) (Figure 2).
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm?s_cid=mm6912e2_w

Once again, supports the conventional wisdom that mortality rate is greatly increased for older, infirm individuals.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 23, 2020 - 22:37:46
I have a sneaking hunch that Chloroquine and zithromycin therapy is going to be our ticket.

I hope they are, and I hope supplies are adequate for those who face this virus and need medical intervention.  My bet is still that for every positive test, 10-100 people have it and either cannot be tested due to their age and status in life, or are asymptomatic carriers.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 00:38:02
Amen.

My feelings exactly:

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIz4y7ni_Go (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fIz4y7ni_Go)

We CANNOT ruin our economy over 5,000 deaths or 50,000 deaths from Covid19 or the annual flu, EVEN if I am one of the fatalities being in the high risk group. We HAVE or at least I HAVE learned to put into practice much better hygiene and social distancing to protect myself.

The simplicity of the argument is that people think you can go back to work and the economy will be saved.
Unfortunately that's not how things work.

The US economy is down for the main reason that the economy is down everywhere else in the world.
Americans going back to work is not going to make a difference.
You can't "fix" a pandemic on a national or local scale.

But you can't have it both ways.
Either you create a controlled environment, in which a limited number of people will die and the economy gets hurt...or you take the controls away and continue as usual.

In the first scenario the spread of the virus is limited, in the second scenario the spread of the virus is uncontrolled.
If the virus spreads without controls, estimates are that 70% of the population may be affected.
Even at a death rate of 1%, that would still mean 2.5M casualties for the US alone, which likely is going to be much higher because the healthcare system will have failed long before.

Hence the logical question that follows...whats the price of a human life?
Are we willing to suffer so that others may live?
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 01:08:14

As you can see, the coronavirus is no more deadly for the young than a typical flu year.


Do you have supporting data for that claim?
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 01:44:35
Do you have supporting data for that claim?

Of course.

These charts cover pediatric (ages up to 21) deaths from influenza for the last four flu seasons in the U.S.

https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html

Compare these stats with the stats I posted for coronavirus for the same young age range.
As of date, there are absolutely no deaths recorded for children under the age of 9 due to coronavirus. Thank God.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 03:09:30
Your flu in December, was it tested to be flu?

Nope.  Never went to a doctor.  No point at the time.  I would have had to call someone to drive me, subjecting them to my contagion and myself to the misery of travel and waiting to be seen, and pay to be told to continue doing what I was already doing.

If I could get some kind of after-the-fact blood test for Kung Flu antibodies -- and not have to pay to get it -- I'd probably do it to see whether I did have that as opposed to "regular" flu.  I might even inquire about donating plasma.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 03:13:11
A light at the end of our house arrests?

POTUS said this cannot go on and at the end of the 15 days he mentioned... will be soon... end of this week?
He will reevaluate. ...

No matter when Bad Orange Man ends this farce from a national perspective, it won't stop people like Dear Leader Wolf at the State level.  I'm certain he'd find a way to enforce even more draconian restrictions.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 03:15:44
The simplicity of the argument is that people think you can go back to work and the economy will be saved.
Unfortunately that's not how things work.

The US economy is down for the main reason that the economy is down everywhere else in the world.
Americans going back to work is not going to make a difference.
You can't "fix" a pandemic on a national or local scale.

But you can't have it both ways.
Either you create a controlled environment, in which a limited number of people will die and the economy gets hurt...or you take the controls away and continue as usual.

In the first scenario the spread of the virus is limited, in the second scenario the spread of the virus is uncontrolled.
If the virus spreads without controls, estimates are that 70% of the population may be affected.
Even at a death rate of 1%, that would still mean 2.5M casualties for the US alone, which likely is going to be much higher because the healthcare system will have failed long before.

Hence the logical question that follows...whats the price of a human life?
Are we willing to suffer so that others may live?

If the economy is boned either way, we might as well yank the band-aid off now, set people free, accept a few million deaths, and start building some corpse-disposal incinerators.
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 05:04:22
Of course.

These charts cover pediatric (ages up to 21) deaths from influenza for the last four flu seasons in the U.S.

https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html

Compare these stats with the stats I posted for coronavirus for the same young age range.
As of date, there are absolutely no deaths recorded for children under the age of 9 due to coronavirus. Thank God.

First and foremost; the world is bigger than just the US.
That you have not had any 0-9 fatalities, does not represent the deadliness of the Covid-19 virus.

Statistics Italy: 0-18 years = 1.1%
Statistics Spain: 0-19 years = 0.45%

If you were to offset that against the 0.2% mentioned in your table, certainly Covid-19 is far more deadly?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 05:14:06
Zactly Norrinradd. The world cannot deal with an economic collapse that we appear to be heading toward. The world not just America has to get back to some normalcy. The drug therapies everyone is expediting holds quite a bit of promise. This cannot be a years long situation or like Norrinradd said, we are already the walking dead and not from the virus. We will likely not excede the annual death numbers from scores of l years of tough flu years, and I think with the measures taken and learned we might beat those numbers. Besides AVZ’s buddies or countrymen the Chinese have pretty much stopped the new cases and drastically slowed the mounting deaths, or so they say.

Also, one could ask how many lives could we have saved in the huge flu pandemic years of the past had we literally locked down the world population as we have now? Were their lives not worth extreme measures? Just food for thought.

Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 05:30:39
AVZ could there be reasons for it being deadlier to children elsewhere? Children are children. If the stats are different somewhere else, something else is at  play such as maybe inferior healthcare? Possibly the death ratios are skewed in some countries because they are only counting the worst cases and not the non symptomatic or mild  cases because of a lack of adequate testing. And there are no numbers for the undetected low symptom cases as yet that definitely  affect the death ratios. The death rates are coming down in the US because of more testing available. More testing of bigger more diverse samples will give us much more accurate death rates. I contend if we had a more accurate idea of the total  number of cases, mild and severe, we would have better death ratios. This virus may well be far more widespread than we think in the number of cases. Deaths from the disease is a  knowable accurate number. We just need a good number for the denominator to get an accurate RATE of death caused by the disease. Right now there is too much margin for error for definitive comparisons between countries.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 07:57:19
I assume you all heard or saw this, but in case you didn't

Coronavirus Victim, 52, Said Good-Bye To Family, Prepared to Die; Says Hydroxychloroquine Saved His Life

https://www.dailywire.com/news/coronavirus-victim-52-said-good-bye-to-family-prepared-to-die-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-his-life?utm_content=non_insiders&utm_campaign=dw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--KgTJQCDniKmI68GlvzKcNZ20QpHyppJbaHWl_o_ors4GPgOYe6tp5bTMyQWgSXZYT0lH0CxY_Qqwxf3G7ymtvpvGkTA&_hsmi=85165862
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 08:02:25
I saw it. Very compelling!

Another good thing about this drug combination is it is VERY cheap. It’s been around for 50 years, not rare and costing 10s of thousands of dollars per dose for new experimental drugs.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 09:39:19
I assume you all heard or saw this, but in case you didn't

Coronavirus Victim, 52, Said Good-Bye To Family, Prepared to Die; Says Hydroxychloroquine Saved His Life

https://www.dailywire.com/news/coronavirus-victim-52-said-good-bye-to-family-prepared-to-die-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-his-life?utm_content=non_insiders&utm_campaign=dw_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=housefile&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--KgTJQCDniKmI68GlvzKcNZ20QpHyppJbaHWl_o_ors4GPgOYe6tp5bTMyQWgSXZYT0lH0CxY_Qqwxf3G7ymtvpvGkTA&_hsmi=85165862

But Remember... Dr Fauci disagrees  In spite of many it has helped through vaiouse docs bucking the system.

Fauci's Absence From Task Force Briefing Turns Heads

"I can't jump in front of the microphone and push him down," Fauci said. "OK, he said it. Let's try and get it corrected for the next time."


https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/anthony-fauci-daily-press-briefing-nih/2020/03/23/id/959632/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM99748_03242020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010104za1b91

Is this Bye, bye Dr. Fauci?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 10:47:36
Fauci wants to do 18 months of testing on it, otherwise the results are “anecdotal”. If I get the virus and am about to die, i pray that someone shoot me up with this anecdotal cure. We gotta shortcut the normal protocols especially with a drug that’s been around 50 years.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 12:58:07
Fauci wants to do 18 months of testing on it, otherwise the results are “anecdotal”. If I get the virus and am about to die, i pray that someone shoot me up with this anecdotal cure. We gotta shortcut the normal protocols especially with a drug that’s been around 50 years.

Yep. If you got malaria your doc would immediatly prescribe this drug.

It has been tested....

But if Fauci...can delay by 18 months... which some might convince him to do  1/2 that time.... Our economy will be sunk.

The election will be over....

And it will be a cake walk for the socialists to move right on in for people will be so desperate any dangling carrot they will seize on.

Trump Has Given Unusual Leeway to Fauci, but Aides Say He's Losing His Patience

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-given-unusual-leeway-fauci-121724586.html

this was all planned. The -----'n left found their way. And this delay, brought on by Queen Nancy is by design.

All ready to vote last week and 5 Rep senators are out. So nothing passes???? But then enter the Queen... walaking majestically up to the podium with many American flags to be seen behind her...just like she is president.... which of course... she is ore powerful cause she holds all the cards.... announcing she has a plan.

So no matter what the Senate does she will want hers....

OK ... off my rant
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 13:23:12
The Dems step in it BIG TIME again. It’s beyond comprehension the suicide tactic they embrace, but we love it!

Would a Democrat on here please remind me why they vote Democrat?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: chosenone on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 13:56:19
We are in full lock down now for 3 weeks initially. We can only go out once a day for exercise, to get food or for medical issues, also if we are helping care for someone. Only those in front line jobs can go to work, many are working from home if they can. If we go out we must stay 2 metres away except for those we live with, and cant gather in any sort of group. Parks are open but not playgrounds. Schools, universities and nurseries closed except for frontline workers children. All shops closed except for food shops and pharmacies.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 15:18:42
I just got through running some errands - to the store and post office to mail care packages to loved ones. The post office was busier than usual. In fact, there was a family of six there getting passports. Talk about positive thinking!
The grocery store wasn't very busy, which surprised me, but that will probably change soon. Rumors about more of a lockdown for Okies is coming soon.
I passed two drug stores. Both had only 3-4 cars in front.
Two urgent care clinics had only about 4-5 cars in the parking lot - not busy at all.

It's in the 70s here. Lots of people walking dogs and driving around town - I assume to just get out of the house for a bit.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 16:58:00
The enemy within.... Dr.Fauci

Now we can see why he would be out to keep hydrochloroquin from being used to early.

Emails from CDC's Fauci in Wikileaks HRC Dump! "Love letters" to Hillary??

Within the WikiLeaks HRC email files there are letters from Fauci to Hillary Clinton through her aid/lawyer Cheryl Mills which say, among other things: “rarely does a speech bring me to tears”… “please tell her I love her more than ever”?… “please tell her that we all love her”… “Please tell her that we all love her and are very proud to know her.”

https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/emails-from-cdc-s-fauci-in-wikileaks-hrc-dump-love-letters-to-hillary

Title: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 17:00:29
Dan Patrick, the lieutenant governor of Texas, says older Americans should risk being infected by the coronavirus in order for the United States to escape a possible economic collapse.

Patrick's comments came in an interview Monday night with Fox News' Tucker Carlson.

Patrick, a Republican, said: "You know, Tucker, no one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?' And if that's the exchange, I'm all in.

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/dan-patrick-texas-virus-pandemic/2020/03/24/id/959672/?ns_mail_uid=757368bd-09df-443c-a7aa-51552a6f0a81&ns_mail_job=DM100137_03242020&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010104ilbkds
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 17:04:00
I agree whole heartedly with what he said and I’m an old fart.
Mommydi had posted about this yesterday and We both agreed with it. Doesn’t seem selfish at all to me.

I don’t want to risk my grandkids future country just to protect my old butt from Corona and neither does Patrick or Mommydi. Seems the opposite of selfish to me.
I didn’t hear him phrase it like you presented it. He was saying HE didn’t want to risk the economic future of his grandkid’s America in order to keep HIM safe. And he thought there were a lot of like minded grandparents, and I think there IS, including me and Mommydi.

As POTUS said, he doesn’t want the cure to be worse than the disease. We CANNOT SHUT THIS COUNTRY DOWN INDEFINITELY. if we do our grandkids will pay dearly with a collapsed economy. I’m as vulnerable as you are Rella. Look at the numbnuts mocking Patrick at the end of the article. If we think we are doomed, we are already beat. I am optimistic we will soon have this thing well in hand, AND preserve America’s economy from collapse that wasn’t far away in my view.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Alan on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:13:30
Same as I said in the other thread; how do you go about returning to business as usual with this disease looming?
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:20:07
Dan Patrick, the lieutenant governor of Texas, says older Americans should risk being infected by the coronavirus in order for the United States to escape a possible economic collapse.


I watched him. He didn't say we should risk infecting old people. Not at all.

Here's the deal. There is no vaccine, and there may not be one for 1-2 years.

No older person will be forced out of their home and forced to get infected. Until a vaccine comes, old people can sadly stay self quarantined if they choose - or they can continue to live a full life, but take extra precautions until there is a vaccine.

I'm not living in fear of this virus. I went out and about today, but took precautions and kept my distance from others. Came home, showered, rinsed out my nose with saline nasal spray, popped a packet of Vit C, and felt good about getting out of the house and doing for others. Hopefully I didn't catch the virus today. If I did - I did.

Besides, I come from a family of fighters who will not hide in their basements for years hoping to stay alive - because life in the basement is death. This is just my family. My grandson, that I raised, is a US Marine who shoots missiles from his shoulder. My son is an RN in an ICU unit at the local hospital and also works part time at a bone and joint surgical hospital. My grandmother was an RN during the Depression and told me many a horrific story of that time. My aunt is an RN. My grandfather was a WWII veteran. I used to work in a hospital emergency department. We're all fighters - not hiders. When knocked down, we stand back up. Hiding out for 1-2 years will do nothing but throw our country into a Depression which will cause more darkness, death, and despair than this virus.
To me, there is no choice. I'll take care of my elderly parents - taking food to them. I'll practice being safe and take precautions. But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit cowering in my basement for two years and leave a dark Depression to my children and grandchildren.

Sorry to be so blunt, and I'll climb down off my soapbox, but that's how I'm feeling.



Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:26:59
Same as I said in the other thread; how do you go about returning to business as usual with this disease looming?

You do it gradually and thoughtfully  - while still protecting the elderly and weak.

Besides, it won't be "business as usual." We won't have a vaccine for up to 2 years, so people who choose to go back out will quickly learn that if they don't take precautions, they'll catch this virus. But until there's a vaccine, things will be different. Still no huge rock concerts or major sporting events, etc. Things will be different. It won't be easy - but what's the alternative? People can't sit in their homes for 2 years. Civil unrest, suicides, murder, looting, all crime and despair running rampant.
Like the old saying - when the going gets tough - the tough gets going. Time to get tough and get going.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:35:37
Alan, we’ve gone ahead with business pretty much as usual with every pandemic in our lifetimes. Including those that  killed 10s of thousands of AMERICANS. This disease is serious, but as testing is getting better, and we determine a better count on how many are infected and not just those with super serious symptoms. As the infected count gets more accurate the kill rate gets lower. Italy supposedly has a 9 percent death rate, but their data isn’t as good as ours since we have been able to get ahold of a lot of test kits. They didn’t. They counted deaths divided by super serious cases and subsequently the ratio is skewed. The death rate should be fairly consistent around the world. I think with the private industry/government cooperation, we should see a lot of treatment progress. Left to the lumbering monolith of government, it would be at a snail’s pace. Yes we needed some  extraordinary precautions, but we didn’t need to self circumcise. I am now a hand washing machine and I never was during any past pandemic. I am meticulously keeping my hands away from my face. Along with other shopping precautions. Hopefully it will suffice. If it doesn’t and I get it hopefully it will be mild. If it isn’t and I get badly ill, hopefully I will recover. If I don’t, I win. If my grandkids Go hungry or are homeless because of a decimated economy, I couldn’t handle that. If the economy collapses there will be no resources for adequate medical efforts in the midst of this pandemic no matter how serious it is.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:47:23
This is how you could do it and gain herd immunity. Its what countries are Semi doing now.

If you speak or use a pen or computer etc etc you get to stay at home with your family and workmfrom there. Video cameras will be erected and remote cameras on key personal. Management can at least monitor the result from home and direct staff when needed. Skype calls conferences can take place.

Those who are involved with a physical aspect of the Job will be let out and many will die. Herd immunity will happen.

Production lines dealing in fancy food items could be directed in getting mass bulk out there to feed the public. Remove red tape and pump it.

We need those in the farming community to liaise with government and supermarket chains and food factories. We need transport operators as well. 2 meter distance and talk with signs cards and radio cell phone.

We need the seed to go into the ground now and meat farms to gear up like nothing we have ever seen before. We need to get this ready and companies must work in together , as machinery parts will fail and we will not be able to source them. Removal of x rays and metal detectors may be needed if parts disappear. Red tape needed to bypass health and safety confinement’s . Working at height , confined space etc etc . Sure it saves lives but many will be lost if we try and keep the systems we have in place.

Good quality control for product is key as well. What we produce mustn’t kill our people

We are at war and a lot of us will die who are in essential survives.  Keep our old people safe inside . Me must

There needed to be ways of getting food to the masses in a orderly manner.

Time for Christians to to say send me in ......I will do it. I have eternal life

Some thoughts

Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:51:13
Companies also now are putting hand San in bottles where once they put in a consumable product.

Also the military we have to be brought in to control public disorder

We have to ....we are at war. We have to take this hill and hold it. We have to meet this wave and the waves to come head on. There is no other choice.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 18:56:03


Time for Christians to to say send me in ......I will do it. I have eternal life



That's it right there.

+1 and more if I could, Mark.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 19:12:29
Team up the young with the old on the battle field .  Take them out of college and put them beside a old hand who knows the ropes so when they fall,  the baton will be picked up . We can’t afford skill shortage.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 20:09:00
Start to record key functions as people go about doing their job. Put go pros on them. Then get the young or old who are good Videos to edit it . That way we won’t loose knowledge.  If a kid can drive a tractor then give him or her the keys. Age doesn't matter , ability does.

Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 20:22:46
I might feel differently if I had children or grands.

I would feel differently if I did not have a mom who will not be able to take care of herself if I am gone.
I am ready to be out of here.

But  I am not sitting around at home all day. I am getting out and about daily.

But I am using caution, where NO ONE ELSE is.

I went through McDonalds for coffee this AM and the woman was putting  it in a carrier.
I told her to save it I would put it in the car cup holders.

She was shocked enough that her eyes got large as saucers.

I had on a mask,as well as my gloves. She actually said that she did not want to touch me because I had gloves and a mask. I assured her I did not want to touch her either.

And I was the only one protected that I saw all morning.

Came home and got the garbage ready in the jumbo garbage container that I cannot handle, called my neighbor and asked her husband to roll it down for me.  We cannot use regular garbage bags during the crisis it must be in the container they provided. ........Then later  he told me his boss is sick and went home early, and has now been tested. If positive
he might be off work for two weeks. The entire place might be. And he was very upset.

It does not thrill me that he came to get the garbage to roll down.

Well, like you, mommydi, if I get it...I will handle it...and I will live.... bad lungs and heart... cause God is not done with me yet... This is just the chain of command that will have gotten it to me.

At least he did not give me his usual hug.



But people refuse to do what is told to do for protection. And I do resent anyone saying
" are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves"

No, I am not. Not until everyone takes some responsibility for themselves and what they may be doing to others.


So yes, I am just not up for taking one for the team because too many on the team may be giving it to me.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 20:39:30
I never got tested but got checked out. No covid 19 bronchitis. Just on meds for a few weeks and off work. Then back to work fixing machines so we can eat. A link in a big chain of people
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Jaime on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 20:45:24
Rella if our economy crashes, it won’t be like a recession, it will be a full blown depression, not unlike The Mad Max movie. We won’t have the resources to take care of the sick with treatments or anything. Doctors won’t be doctoring, People will be doing good to forage a little food, if at all. If you had kids and grandkids you would feel the exact same way as I do. I feel better about taking care of my wife’s 85 year old mother WITH a semblance of an economy. If the economy crashes, I doubt seriously social Security or Medicaid would be viable. It barely is now. We must strive to maintain an economy in parallel with dealing with this virus. The country will make it through this virus, I am positive. Not so sure about the economy in long term shutdown, even if it’s not 100 percent perfectly shut down and everyone fully complying. The slowdown we ARE HAVING is catastrophic to restaurants and small business, the backbone of the economy and paychecks. I have some savings, but it won’t take long to be in extremely straits. If SS fails, i’m in a world of hurt. I would be in a situation of not near enough vs just enough with my not so impressive retirement funds. A result of extreme stupidity and bad luck in my youth. With the virus, I have a chance of getting well, a pretty good chance. With total economic collapse, not a chance for very long. Wrecking the economy is not a good choice. EVERYTHING goes away in an economic collapse. Not just toilet paper stocks and a little freedom to move about. It’s not the inconvenience we are now experiencing, but it IS about total meltdown of life as we know it. A true Darwinian scenario of survival of the fittest or the shrewdest!
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 21:27:22
At some point, if this stupidity continues, I hope Trump declares martial law and overrules the state governments.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 21:35:24
Rella, no one is forcing old people to go out and get exposed.

It will probably be 1-2 years before a vaccine is approved.

If we have a Depression, there will be no Social Security or Medicare.

Anyone on Social Security and Medicare should think twice about an extended shut down of the economy.







Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 21:43:23
At some point, if this stupidity continues, I hope Trump declares martial law and overrules the state governments.

In Norman, Oklahoma, the mayor has taken it further than any other mayor in Oklahoma.

Mandatory shelter at home until April 14th.

We've had three deaths in the entire state, and only 24 hospitalizations from coronavirus.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 21:57:01
I never got tested but got checked out. No covid 19 bronchitis. Just on meds for a few weeks and off work. Then back to work fixing machines so we can eat. A link in a big chain of people

Sorry you have bronchitis, but glad it's not the coronas. Get well soon!

IDK, I think I've mentioned this before, but will again.

When I had the flu, my mom bought this for me-

(https://i.imgur.com/jgTtrZa.png)

It's a weird little device, similar to those things they make you blow through after surgery - can't remember what they're called.

Anyway, these are called an inspiratory/expiratory device. As you inhale and exhale through it, you'll get the strangest fluttering/vibrating sensations in your bronchial tubes. This helps loosen congestion AND importantly increases oxygen to your lungs.

Looks like they've sold out on Amazon of the one I have, but here is another one that gets excellent reviews-

(https://i.imgur.com/s0hX1ED.png)

It would be worth the $40 for anyone who has bronchial troubles or who wants to increase oxygen levels.



Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 23:10:15
AVZ could there be reasons for it being deadlier to children elsewhere? Children are children. If the stats are different somewhere else, something else is at  play such as maybe inferior healthcare? Possibly the death ratios are skewed in some countries because they are only counting the worst cases and not the non symptomatic or mild  cases because of a lack of adequate testing. And there are no numbers for the undetected low symptom cases as yet that definitely  affect the death ratios. The death rates are coming down in the US because of more testing available. More testing of bigger more diverse samples will give us much more accurate death rates. I contend if we had a more accurate idea of the total  number of cases, mild and severe, we would have better death ratios. This virus may well be far more widespread than we think in the number of cases. Deaths from the disease is a  knowable accurate number. We just need a good number for the denominator to get an accurate RATE of death caused by the disease. Right now there is too much margin for error for definitive comparisons between countries.

This has nothing to do with the children or "inferior" healthcare. This is all about the availability of healthcare.
The healthcare systems in Italy and Spain are not bad at all, nothing inferior about it, the problem is that they both got flooded with patients.
No healthcare system in the world can be sustained if patients outnumber availability.

Having an accurate death rate for the virus is not going to help one way or the other.
What's the difference if it's 1% or 20%? It's not that if the number is low enough we suddenly stop giving care.

All you need to do is look at the situation as it was in China, Italy and Spain.
Hospitals flooding over and people sleeping and dying on the floor. That's what you get when things get out of hand.
At that point people no longer get the care they need and also healthy people including children start to die.

Again, as for the number...
Lets say I somehow get to know the actual death rate, and its 1%
Now what are you going to do? Send everybody back to work and have the hospitals flooding over because 1% is too low to be bothered about?

What if the actual death rate is a mere 0.5%, but no action would mean 60% of the population will be affected.
For the US that would mean only 9.9 million people. What do you think, low enough?

What death rate do you consider significant enough to warrant action? Would 2% be satisfactory?
Tell me, what number would make you happy?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Tue Mar 24, 2020 - 23:20:55
Yep. If you got malaria your doc would immediatly prescribe this drug.

It has been tested....

But if Fauci...can delay by 18 months... which some might convince him to do  1/2 that time.... Our economy will be sunk.

The election will be over....

And it will be a cake walk for the socialists to move right on in for people will be so desperate any dangling carrot they will seize on.

Trump Has Given Unusual Leeway to Fauci, but Aides Say He's Losing His Patience

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-given-unusual-leeway-fauci-121724586.html

this was all planned. The -----'n left found their way. And this delay, brought on by Queen Nancy is by design.

All ready to vote last week and 5 Rep senators are out. So nothing passes???? But then enter the Queen... walaking majestically up to the podium with many American flags to be seen behind her...just like she is president.... which of course... she is ore powerful cause she holds all the cards.... announcing she has a plan.

So no matter what the Senate does she will want hers....

OK ... off my rant

Sure, this was all planned.
The democrats planted the virus in China and then waited for it to come over to the US.
Then not only did they influence the healthcare system and experts to undermine Trump, they also influenced every single expert worldwide to criticize how countries are responding.
In addition, the democrats influenced the experts to keep it a big secret that a cure is available, just to get Trump out of the saddle.
On top of that, they not only did so on a national scale...no they managed to keep every other expert, laboratory and government in the world to keep it a secret.

So after hundreds of thousands of infections and numerous deaths...the democrats are almost there.
Fortunately though, republicans are way to smart to be blind sighted by those sneaky democrats.
Did they really think they could come up with infecting the whole world and get away with it?
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 02:49:09
Lockdown of more than about two weeks likely to cause mental health epidemic. (https://www.keyministry.org/church4everychild/2020/3/22/flattening-the-curve-of-the-covid-19-mental-health-epidemic-to-come?fbclid=IwAR2kraRcIimdGp2iQ8NhkY5q9GBBr3BrpUXgfKx1WfBmB8emo8LKwKh1Ia8)

"Deaths of Despair" could outpace virus deaths if shutdown continues to harm economy. (https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/will-deaths-of-despair-outpace-deaths-from-coronavirus/?utm_source=mailchimp&fbclid=IwAR1x62-3LbJTmlXp55sVQnQ5A5tuhUrkGInRZUsjnH4V7ch1GzuTxT_dE60)
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: RB on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 03:12:36
Dan Patrick, the lieutenant governor of Texas, says older Americans should risk being infected by the coronavirus in order for the United States to escape a possible economic collapse.
I WHOLE HEARTILY AGREE WITH HIM...... MAYBE EVEN MORE SO THAN HE DOES! Life as usual! Fear God, not some sickness that may, or may not take one's life.  What's going on in America is absolutely insane mainly caused by like of faith in God. I'll stop, I have more important battles to face than this one.
Quote
2nd Timothy 1:7~"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 03:41:40
I've mostly lost respect for Dr. Fauxi.

For one thing, he doesn't just talk out of both sides of his mouth, he talks out of both ends of his alimentary canal.  In that Science Mag interview, at least as spun by the author, he was clearly deriding Bad Orange Man.  But on The Great One's show Sunday night, he spent pretty much the entire half-hour speaking of him in glowing terms.

More practically, he's too much of an ivory tower research nerd.  Other competent medical people who think more like clinicians are much more eager to try things NOW, rather than diddle around with "double-blind trials."
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 03:45:22
Cross-posting from Rella's "Are we really this selfish" thread --

Lockdown of more than about two weeks likely to cause mental health epidemic.
 (https://www.keyministry.org/church4everychild/2020/3/22/flattening-the-curve-of-the-covid-19-mental-health-epidemic-to-come?fbclid=IwAR2kraRcIimdGp2iQ8NhkY5q9GBBr3BrpUXgfKx1WfBmB8emo8LKwKh1Ia8)

"Deaths of Despair" could outpace virus deaths if shutdown continues to harm economy. (https://childrenshealthdefense.org/news/will-deaths-of-despair-outpace-deaths-from-coronavirus/?utm_source=mailchimp&fbclid=IwAR1x62-3LbJTmlXp55sVQnQ5A5tuhUrkGInRZUsjnH4V7ch1GzuTxT_dE60)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 04:37:02
Sorry you have bronchitis, but glad it's not the coronas. Get well soon!

IDK, I think I've mentioned this before, but will again.

When I had the flu, my mom bought this for me-

(https://i.imgur.com/jgTtrZa.png)

It's a weird little device, similar to those things they make you blow through after surgery - can't remember what they're called.

Anyway, these are called an inspiratory/expiratory device. As you inhale and exhale through it, you'll get the strangest fluttering/vibrating sensations in your bronchial tubes. This helps loosen congestion AND importantly increases oxygen to your lungs.

Looks like they've sold out on Amazon of the one I have, but here is another one that gets excellent reviews-

(https://i.imgur.com/s0hX1ED.png)

It would be worth the $40 for anyone who has bronchial troubles or who wants to increase oxygen levels.
Thanks mommydi I have seen these 2 called Bob and Brad and they was showing the bottom one off.
I know what set me of this time and last time now. It was mould in my bathroom and then mould around my windows along with dust build up. I’ve been doing 12 hour nightshift 6 on 2 of for about 1 1/2 years due to cost cutting. Not employing extra staff. Then 2 shift fitter get major injuries and the other ones gets married and gets 7 weeks off. I’ve had 2 sick days in 3 years. The money is good and I’ve nearly paid my house off and have been spending money . Prepping for this event. I knew God had set me up for the ability to get wealth. So I kept on going. Now I know why. It was for this day. But in that I was lazy and I didn’t do a lot of house work. One who has allergies it’s not good. The mould done it to me. I’ve spent the last 2 days with bleach and a mask on spraying down and cleaning bad windows. And vac floors. I just forget about it and think it’s ok. Time goes on and then this happens. Now I have 2 times when I can trace it back to. I need to come up with a plan on going around my house every 2 weeks and just do it. If I don’t I only got my self to blame. I’m lazy and I need to change what I do

Thanks again for the time that you put into helping me out.

Love you sister and may our God keep you and your loved one through this trial that the world is going through.

Your brother in Christ Jesus

Mark
Title: Re: How sad.
Post by: chosenone on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 04:42:31
This has nothing to do with the children or "inferior" healthcare. This is all about the availability of healthcare.
The healthcare systems in Italy and Spain are not bad at all, nothing inferior about it, the problem is that they both got flooded with patients.
No healthcare system in the world can be sustained if patients outnumber availability.

Having an accurate death rate for the virus is not going to help one way or the other.
What's the difference if it's 1% or 20%? It's not that if the number is low enough we suddenly stop giving care.

All you need to do is look at the situation as it was in China, Italy and Spain.
Hospitals flooding over and people sleeping and dying on the floor. That's what you get when things get out of hand.
At that point people no longer get the care they need and also healthy people including children start to die.

Again, as for the number...
Lets say I somehow get to know the actual death rate, and its 1%
Now what are you going to do? Send everybody back to work and have the hospitals flooding over because 1% is too low to be bothered about?

What if the actual death rate is a mere 0.5%, but no action would mean 60% of the population will be affected.
For the US that would mean only 9.9 million people. What do you think, low enough?

What death rate do you consider significant enough to warrant action? Would 2% be satisfactory?
Tell me, what number would make you happy?

Its hard one this isn't it. I do agree with what our govt are doing in the UK, and that is that this week we are on lock down for a limited time, three weeks to start with. All people over 70 and others with certain health conditions are being advised to stay in for 12 weeks. This is so that the NHS wont be completely overwhelmed with far too many critically ill people at once, 'flattening out the curve' they call it. Sound very sensible and wise to me. It will largely stop this awful illness passing from family to family, and eventually in the months ahead, once we are past this time, people will again go to the cafes, and swimming pools, and theatres and cinemas and restaurants and go on holidays etc. Businesses will pick up, shops will recoup their losses as people buy and buy again. I have hope, if we all pray for our leaders and countries, good things will come of this time. Its certainly making us all appreciate what we have in life, the freedoms that we usually take for granted, being able to go where we like when we like. Being able to have weddings, parties, take children to school, to the playground, so hard for people with children at this time.   
God always brings good out of bad, nothing about this is a surprise to Him.   

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 04:55:17
   What I find most depressing in all this business - is the proliferation of those seeking to take advantage of the situation, e.g. buying-up medical stock and then re-selling at an inflated price - I noticed Amazon (4 Andrex loo rolls at nearly £14) and Ebay (Lactulose solution - 500 ml - a necessity for my wife after bowel surgery - at nearly £10 ) both prices inflated by over 100% - both of them, and others, at this game! Supply and Demand will be their excuse I expect (What happened to our RRP "Recommended Retail Price" and laws to prevent exploitation?!  ::frown::)  There are also the "scammers" seeking to defraud anxious possibly naive people.  Mercifully, we now have a "BT Call Blocker" on our phone landline, which discards callers trying to hide their number to prevent tracing back.   It's interesting on reviewing the previous phone calls to see how many are marked "Withheld".  It's not a new phenomenon - "A fool and his money are easily parted!" and the scum of society are always out to "feather their own nests"!

  Panic-buying still continues here in the UK - absolutely dotty!  Even at former very busy shopping times e;g. Christmas/Easter the shelves were never "stripped bare" as they are now!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 05:55:07
AVZ, of course the Democrats didn’t develope the virus and orchestrate its progress, BUT as Rahm Emmanuel says, “Never let a crisis go to waste”, and the Democrats certainly haven’t and absolutely hope this is Trump’s Katrina. They are visibly giddy about that. They can’t get rid of him conventionally and they know it. Not to mention Pelosi et al trying to take advantage of the crisis and get things added to the stimulus package that have nothing to do with with the virus that they never could get passed normally. They are shameless! Thank you for reminding us. May your country China be spared of such idiots in a time like this.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 06:04:45
No AVZ, knowing the true death rate IS paramount. It won’t fix the ones dead and dying, but it WILL ABSOLUTELY reveal the ferocity of what we are dealing with and the extent of what needs to be done and for how long. If it’s found that the kill rate is about the same as a severe flu pandemic, millions of deaths worldwide will not be unexpected and we WILL get to the end of it without destroying the world economy. If it’s confirmed that it’s kill rate is nothing we have seen before, we can brace and prepare as we need to. Or kiss our families goodbye, and meet the Lord. Knowing what exactly we are facing death rate wise, survivability wise is way more than half the battle to sensibly approach this crisis and a crisis it certainly is for my country the USA and your country China as well as Italy and others.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 07:40:48
No AVZ, knowing the true death rate IS paramount. It won’t fix the ones dead and dying, but it WILL ABSOLUTELY reveal the ferocity of what we are dealing with and the extent of what needs to be done and for how long. If it’s found that the kill rate is about the same as a severe flu pandemic, millions of deaths worldwide will not be unexpected and we WILL get to the end of it without destroying the world economy. If it’s confirmed that it’s kill rate is nothing we have seen before, we can brace and prepare as we need to. Or kiss our families goodbye, and meet the Lord. Knowing what exactly we are facing death rate wise, survivability wise is way more than half the battle to sensibly approach this crisis and a crisis it certainly is for my country the USA and your country China as well as Italy and others.

Have you learned nothing from opening your eyes and watching what is happening in other countries?
Are you still questioning if Covid-19 is more deadly than the flu? Did you perhaps miss the never ending stream of coffins in Italy?
And even if you do not believe the pictures of people dropping dead on the street in China, perhaps you should listen to the experts who tell you that it is more deadly than the flu.

If I were to buy into your proposition that indeed you are of the opinion that Civid-19 is no more dangerous than a severe flu, then you must also be of the opinion that whatever your government is doing is overreaction.
You should then also treat Covid-19 the same as a severe flu; which means you lift the closure of borders, open schools, allow gatherings of big crowds, allow public travel, open shops, stop testing and people go back to work.

So why dont you do just that, and in a week or 4 I check in with you again and see if you still think Covid-19 is nothing but like a sever flu.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 07:51:49
AVZ, of course the Democrats didn’t develope the virus and orchestrate its progress, BUT as Rahm Emmanuel says, “Never let a crisis go to waste”, and the Democrats certainly haven’t and absolutely hope this is Trump’s Katrina. They are visibly giddy about that. They can’t get rid of him conventionally and they know it. Not to mention Pelosi et al trying to take advantage of the crisis and get things added to the stimulus package that have nothing to do with with the virus that they never could get passed normally. They are shameless! Thank you for reminding us. May your country China be spared of such idiots in a time like this.

I am glad most countries are spared the political system you have in the US.
Again, look at other countries. Whereas most (if not all) countries have put their political differences aside and come together, predominantly in the US the pandemic is politicized.

You may think the Democrats behave improper, for most of us outside the US, both Democrats and Republicans behave like idiots.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: AVZ on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:00:49
I WHOLE HEARTILY AGREE WITH HIM...... MAYBE EVEN MORE SO THAN HE DOES! Life as usual! Fear God, not some sickness that may, or may not take one's life.  What's going on in America is absolutely insane mainly caused by like of faith in God. I'll stop, I have more important battles to face than this one.

This does not make sense at all.
On one hand you do not fear sickness because you fear God, and trying to avoid a sickness is like having a lack of faith.
On the other hand you do fear the collapse of the economy so much, that you are willing to give your life for it.

Apparently you think God can cure a country from a disease, but He can not cure a country from economic collapse?
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:23:37
 No one is falling on the sword yet. My thought is do the best we  reasonably can and pray for the health situation as well as the economy. With God’s help we can get through both. However I am convinced an economic collapse will be way more painful and in fact exacerbate the pandemic. When this thing hits the slums in Africa, India and latin America is where it’s going to get real. It’s one thing for the US to shelter in place in our clean, air conditioned and heated homes,  but the dirt floored, card board hovels of the third word will be a REAL challange. Both M the pandemic and the economy will be successfully dealt with in my opinion. And I don’t think sacrificing one for the other solves anything. God HAS let us do horrendous things to ourselves and our fellow man in the past. No one is saying this virus is not serious. We address it seriously as we should As well as the economy. We are stewards of both. Especially since in reality we have perched  ourselves and the world in very precarious economic ground with national debt and a globally dependent economy. And with our ability to move around so freely it’s hard to isolate ourselves as maybe we could in the past. I don’t believe this is the end of the world, but I also believe we could  make it seem so and unnecessarily. If faced with a stark choice of dying of the disease or destroying the economy and dying more painfully, I would much rather have the disease take me than to ensure my kids and grandkids fate in a Thunderdome world. If others think that is crazy, then we’re even. I say with God’s help, we can accomplish both. Neither problem should be trivialized, but approach them cautiously and sensibly. If we could get Washington to lay aside the temptation to gain political advantage and just get work done and both sides quit posturing for the next election, we can make it through this.  I am 100% convinced.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: RB on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:26:12
This does not make sense at all.
On one hand you do not fear sickness because you fear God, and trying to avoid a sickness is like having a lack of faith.
On the other hand you do fear the collapse of the economy so much, that you are willing to give your life for it.

Apparently you think God can cure a country from a disease, but He can not cure a country from economic collapse?
Sorry if it does not make sense to you. AVZ, I DO NOT think it is as serious as folks are making it out to be, THEREFORE, I think we should live our life as always, during which time we trust God to protect us EVEN when there seems to be NO SICKNESS on the rampant!  I think it started very close to your homeland in China~and they may very well have done it on purpose for reasons known only to the powers that be. If you look in America where it is most prominent~NY, Seattle, and San Francisco where there is a larger population of Asians than anywhere else...most likely brought here by them unawares if I had my guess.   

If you are looking for fault with what I'm saying, I'm sure you will find it, since I'm a man subject to error and you very well may be right and I'm wrong.

My main point is this: WHY destroy our economy or the world's over this, which truly is not as worse as some in the past and we kept living trusting God?

RB
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: 4WD on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:32:48
According to the CDC:

"Flu season is hitting its stride right now in the US. So far, the CDC has estimated (based on weekly influenza surveillance data) that at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000.

The CDC also estimates that up to 31 million Americans have caught the flu this season, with 210,000 to 370,000 flu sufferers hospitalized because of the virus. "


How about COVD-19?  About 55,000 infected so far and about 800 dead.  And for that we are wiping out the economy. It is pure insanity.
Title: Re: Are we really this selfish? Us old folks?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:41:11
Fear God, not some sickness that may, or may not take one's life.  What's going on in America is absolutely insane mainly caused by like of faith in God.

I am one who had a man at the house last night who was wearing gloves but not a face mask.

He told me all about how sick his boss was yesterday and had to leave work over it. His boss had the symptoms from what he was saying. And then went on to be flabbergasted the entire shop might need to be closed for two weeks.

So what do I do? Do I self quarantine for 2 more weeks.

Ill tell you what I did...

I went grocering at 7 AM this morning, where people were not at all concerned with social distancing . though I was courteous enough to keep my distance.

But why should I? If I already am contaminated why bother? It wont help me.

So guess in a way, I am right out there helping the cause whether I want to or not. Another $125 back into the economy.

I also still have those 4 tickets for the April 11 concert in the heart of one of the counties the Dem Governor put an absolute stay at home order for because of the rapid rise in cases. After all, that was only put into place as the idiot mayor of the city
also a dem now has tested positive.

But they will not cancel the concert. After all, the stay at home expires April 6. That is 5 whole days before the 11th.

Am I bitter? In a way yes.

I hate these closures and interference with life as usual.

But I hate the idea more that they are refusing... because of idiot protocols... that the medical community is stopping doctors from using what ever drugs they have or suspect will help a person when they are positive.

This entire thing has turned the world upside down. Not just the US... And think about this.... if we go about our business as usual... is that going to stop the foreign markets from tumbling?

Yesterday they said Covid19 was ramping up again slightly in China in the originating spot. That means that will happen all over the place... I keep thinking Peace and safety the sudden destruction...........

But we are sitting on our fannies watching all of this happen and no one can come up with a pill to help with the symptoms like we have when we are getting over the flu....  Even with people who have been given the combo of Z=PaK and Hydroxychloroquine  and they got better. Go back and read some of the threads above....

It is not being done because Fauci says it must be tested. (God bless the few docs who are ignoring him)A 70 year old medicine might not be safe for people  ::doh::


Mommydi, I know it will take 2 years for a "vaccine" to be approved... and another year to get it into the market place.

And then not everyone will want it....

Do you really think the economy will hold up if nothing is offered to  the people and they go on living life as usual?

It wont.

Many more people will die off because they will not be able to contain them within a hospital. You and I do not live near an ocean where hospital ships and the volunteering cruise ships will be able to take coastal people. Instead they are equipping stadiums for the overflow.

But hatsoff the the beer makers in our city.... they are all converting to make hand sanitizer.


Hmmm wonder if rinsing your hands with some Johnny Walker Black, Wild Turkey, or Bacardi 151 would do the trick?
I have a bottle of some kind of whisky that only had 1 tablespoon taken when the doc told my grand mother to take it after grand pap died.( She was a teetotaler)  He died in 1959. She died in 1983.... Should be well aged by now as the top was thoroughly resealed after her tablespoon.

The controlling left simply cannot permit that to happen too soon. Sure dont want Trump to have been able to contain and control this cause right now the markets and the economy are exactly perfect for their take over in Nov.  And dont you forget that.

As I said before .... I do not care if I die.

But after last night and this AM... it is in God's hands. And if it comes to be my time, He will take care of my 86 year old mom who has no one else.  ::tippinghat::



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 08:44:39
I am glad most countries are spared the political system you have in the US.
Again, look at other countries. Whereas most (if not all) countries have put their political differences aside and come together, predominantly in the US the pandemic is politicized.

You may think the Democrats behave improper, for most of us outside the US, both Democrats and Republicans behave like idiots.

You are such a blatherskite.

Hiding behind the anonymity of your user name, never allowing anyone to know where you live.

It must be pretty bad. Seems like you are ashamed of it.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 09:11:39
AVZ, shut up about the US, unless you want to reveal the identity of your country.  A quid pro quo, You tell us your home country and we  we will allow you to continue posting freely. I think we have been plenty patient with you.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 09:14:50
I am glad most countries are spared the political system you have in the US.
Again, look at other countries. Whereas most (if not all) countries have put their political differences aside and come together, predominantly in the US the pandemic is politicized.

You may think the Democrats behave improper, for most of us outside the US, both Democrats and Republicans behave like idiots.

Are you too much of a coward to tell us about what country you are from, the good parts about living in your country, and the bad parts of living in your country?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 09:17:10
Have you learned nothing from opening your eyes and watching what is happening in other countries?
Are you still questioning if Covid-19 is more deadly than the flu? Did you perhaps miss the never ending stream of coffins in Italy?
And even if you do not believe the pictures of people dropping dead on the street in China, perhaps you should listen to the experts who tell you that it is more deadly than the flu.

If I were to buy into your proposition that indeed you are of the opinion that Civid-19 is no more dangerous than a severe flu, then you must also be of the opinion that whatever your government is doing is overreaction.
You should then also treat Covid-19 the same as a severe flu; which means you lift the closure of borders, open schools, allow gatherings of big crowds, allow public travel, open shops, stop testing and people go back to work.

So why dont you do just that, and in a week or 4 I check in with you again and see if you still think Covid-19 is nothing but like a sever flu.

Blah blah blah, insert anecdotal story, blah blah blah, why don't you blah blah blah.

And with your last response, it appears you are so dense that some of us are advocating exactly that.  Other than maybe isolation of the elderly.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 09:26:02
AVZ, who said we should keep schools open during a severe flu pandemic. If we had closed schools in the past maybe millions would have been saved in THOSE outbreaks. 30 to 50 million dead in the US over the flu is no consolation because the flu is not an exotic virus. It isn’t about flu vs Covid19. The flu is plenty deadly itself. Death rate IS  critical in evaluating any kind of outbreak. Testing  is the basis of all knowledge on these things. Especially when the death rate is the be all and end all of how we react and counterattack.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 10:06:35
I am glad most countries are spared the political system you have in the US.
Again, look at other countries. Whereas most (if not all) countries have put their political differences aside and come together, predominantly in the US the pandemic is politicized.

You may think the Democrats behave improper, for most of us outside the US, both Democrats and Republicans behave like idiots.

**** off, troll.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 10:22:33
Are you too much of a coward to tell us about what country you are from, the good parts about living in your country, and the bad parts of living in your country?

Of course, he is. He comes from a place in the world where they stir fry dogs alive - while the dogs yelp in pain - they keep forcing the dog into their big stir fry skillet until the dog painfully comes to his unfortunate death. But yet, he sticks around here, picking at that splinter in others' eyes.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 10:27:03
**** off, troll.

(https://i.ibb.co/x7Wvf7K/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Mar 25, 2020 - 21:33:40
So there's a little problem.

Hydroxychloroquine is half of the two drug combo that President Trump recommended and New York's governor is using in a clinical setting for coronavirus victims.

Here's the problem-
India makes most of the Hydroxychloroquine for the world, and they've just shut down all exports of Hydroxychloroquine.
India is not sharing their Hydroxychloroquine.

One more reason we need to be self-sufficient.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 03:33:36
   Here in the UK, dare one suggest that there might be a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.  No new cases over past few days from the area where it all started.  Another little hopeful sign? - Shoppers here seem to be easing-off from panic-buying (my wife actually managed to get an "Andrex" pack of 9 loo rolls recently from a Morrisons Supermarket (West Midlands) and there were still another 6 left on the shelf! As were things like tins of soup).  We seem to be ok for "essentials" to last us out for the next 2-3 weeks hopefully, and have had many kind offers from younger and more mobile neighbours in our street, to shop for us "oldies" who are without cars.(Bus travel into town is to be avoided now!)

   Our daughter in Bromsgrove  is a "key-worker" managing a Pharmacy Hub in Redditch- and has had a very nasty surprise - the dog-day-care "club" she had been using for her yellow Labrador while she works, has closed down because of the virus restrictions!  This means she is under intense pressure, splitting her workday to travel some 6 miles back home, feed/take dog for "walkies", then nip back to work again, until she has to repeat the "dog care routine" later that day. When she finally gets back home exhausted - the dog is ready to play!!! No neighbours or any other relatives to help and we are too old/frail to cope with taking out an energetic dog.  On top of this extra routine, she also needs to go back to work in the evening to make sure stuff is ready for the couriers to take out to the customers smartly in the morning.  No wonder we are concerned for her health as she struggles to satisfy increased customer demand/ 

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 03:34:04
So there's a little problem.

Hydroxychloroquine is half of the two drug combo that President Trump recommended and New York's governor is using in a clinical setting for coronavirus victims.

Here's the problem-
India makes most of the Hydroxychloroquine for the world, and they've just shut down all exports of Hydroxychloroquine.
India is not sharing their Hydroxychloroquine.

One more reason we need to be self-sufficient.

Actually, if trump would just have kept his mouth shut and let the experts deal with it...there would have been no global run on this medicine and there would have been no reason for India to suspend export.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: 4WD on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 04:42:28
From the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

2019-2020 U.S. Flu Season: Preliminary Burden Estimates

38,000,000 – 54,000,000 flu illnesses

17,000,000 – 25,000,000 flu medical visits

390,000 – 710,000 flu hospitalizations

23,000 – 59,000 flu deaths

Current estimates for US for COVID-19

69,179 Cases

1,050 deaths

Which do you think is the more dangerous illness  --  common flu or COVID-19?

We have literally shut down the economic engine of this country because of COVID-19.  Given the above estimates, could someone please give me the rational for all the hype about COVID-19 while the present message concerning the flu is "Remember to get you flu shot".

In fact as of this morning, there are an estimated 21,353 deaths worldwide due to COVID-19.  That is at the low end of the current estimates [23,000 – 59,000] for deaths due to the flu in the US.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: RB on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 04:56:23
From the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm

2019-2020 U.S. Flu Season: Preliminary Burden Estimates

38,000,000 – 54,000,000 flu illnesses

17,000,000 – 25,000,000 flu medical visits

390,000 – 710,000 flu hospitalizations

23,000 – 59,000 flu deaths

Current estimates for US for COVID-19

69,179 Cases

1,050 deaths

Which do you think is the more dangerous illness  --  common flu or COVID-19?

We have literally shut down the economic engine of this country because of COVID-19.  Given the above estimates, could someone please give me the rational for all the hype about COVID-19 while the present message concerning the flu is "Remember to get you flu shot".

In fact as of this morning, there are an estimated 21,353 deaths worldwide due to COVID-19.  That is at the low end of the current estimates [23,000 – 59,000] for deaths due to the flu in the US.
I'm not the brightest person, but something just does not add up even to a poor uneducated person like me. But what I do have is a little "common sense" which as I have said many times over, just not too common no more!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 05:38:09
Yes there are the likes of China who shut down everything to stop the spread as they realized it was worse than the common cold. The rate of infection and the results from that. There was no data . They was writing the how to book

Then we had Italy and they shut down the northern part and locked it down. In this little locked down area it was worse than the common flu, thus there HS could not cope.

Now we see the strategy from the USA .. New York is a area where there was a lot of international travel so there rates are higher than some other areas. Don’t forget flue is all over the globe in all areas. Corona is not yet.
It appears they will contain this because they can’t cure it. If they and other nations don’t do this then we would see it would run rampant.
New York you will see tighter controls around there area. Maybe limit travel in and out ? So you don’t take what’s there and pass it around. China has now have to deal with these issues as they open up there economy.

It other areas of the USA they will trade as normal and bring in testing to pin point hot spots and keep hosing them down to contain it if they can. If it burns out of control then they will create a fire break so it can’t burn uncontrolled through the USA.

You guys are still like the rest of the world on the upwards curve. Community awareness with hygiene and Social  distance can help to minimize transmission . They will see the curve and try and flatten it . Trade remains open with controls put in place. When the curve or growth goes up over the HS line then shutdowns will have to be put in place. May be essential services can flow while others work from home.? These curves will be taken and monitored from cities and areas so the plans will be different in towns cities and maybe states. Plans will change based on the numbers that start to emerge

They know this hasn’t left us and will be around for a few more years. If left unchecked it would be way worse than the common flue. China’s entire shutdown proved that. Italy’s northern shut down proved that. There Health Systems that they had in place to deal with the common flue did not cope and still can’t.

Trump has  moved 4,000 respirators into New York out of the 6,000. Figures may be wrong there as it’s from memory.

Its containing bush fires by firebreak measures and hosing down spark fires moved by wind or travel of people.

Its a balanced approach and in that I think it’s the best plan for what the world knows now ....after only a few months .



Let’s see how this pans out when we see the curve goes down. Like I said there are a few waves still to come and how we learn we can navigate our approach into the next one and then the next one more better than the one we are in now.

Left unchecked . We get China and Italy who couldn’t cope.
A complete shut down happens because no one knows how to deal with it and need time to breathe and figure it out.

Now they have a plan and will work it out
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 05:43:56
When it hits Africa and places like that then maybe we will see how bad it could have been.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 05:50:22
I agree Mark. When it hits the crowded slums of Bombay India and Bangladesh and the poor villages in Africa, it will be horrific. Maybe the saving grace will be that world travel in and out of those places is likely much less. The bell curve for the virus probably won’t be tamped down in those areas.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 06:04:35
So controls and restriction will have to be put in place and these can change at a fast rate. We are going to have to live with this now so we can survive. Life has changed . The freedom that we have been used to is not there any more.

China has issues residents cards so they can travel and monitor who goes in and out. Phone apps to let them know where there is a outbreak. The all seeing eye is being brought in right in front of us.

Maybe with outbreaks like this, we will welcome the chip that you will have to have to buy sell and trade. Store all our personal detail on .

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 06:11:00
I agree Mark. When it hits the crowded slums of Bombay India and Bangladesh and the poor villages in Africa, it will be horrific. Maybe the saving grace will be that world travel in and out of those places is likely much less. The bell curve for the virus probably won’t be tamped down in those areas.
Well then,  let’s go grab there minerals . Horrible but probably true. We are just helping them out for a few grains of soil. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 06:28:10
I agree Mark. When it hits the crowded slums of Bombay India and Bangladesh and the poor villages in Africa, it will be horrific.

How does this tally with your claim in another post that most likely when we find out more people contract Covid-19, the death rate will go down?
Even in the slums of Mumbai, Bangladesh and villages of Africa they have the common flu.
So why do you think Covid-19 will create a particularly horrific situation? If the common flu is not horrific, and Covid-19 death toll is like the common flu...then Covid-19 cant be that horrific either.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 06:45:47
In the slums, and the lack of communication in those areas social distancing will be difficult if not non-existent. Even in those areas if stats are consistent, some may not show symptoms or will be very mild. But even with that, they will still be able to spread the virus. The death rate in those places will likely be higher because of a lack of facilities and medical, transportation problems, etc. And lack of sanitation and clean water sometimes, as all human problems are worse in those areas. EVERY problem is magnified in slums like these. EVERY human in the slum may be affected, but every human will probably not die,  but obviously more percentagewise than in other areas of the world better equipped to battle the virus. Even common contagions can be catastrophic in these areas for the reasons I have stated. Look at the aids epidemic in Africa. Lack of education, lack of protection etc.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 06:55:04
WHY?

India bans exports of drug touted by Trump as potential Covid-19 treatment

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/03/25/india-trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-covid19/

Steven Seedhouse, a biotech analyst at Raymond James, said chloroquine was just as promising as any treatment option for COVID-19. That includes remdesivir, an antiviral drug being developed by the giant biotech company Gilead Sciences that World Health Organization officials have called "the most promising candidate" for COVID-19 treatment.

He recently analyzed the early evidence for three top drugs being tested for COVID-19 — remdesivir, chloroquine, and Kaletra, an HIV drug sold by AbbVie — and concluded that chloroquine was the most promising candidate.

"If we had to pick one of the three at this point that actually seems most likely to have the biggest impact on treating COVID-19 in the coming months/years, it would be chloroquine," he said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/malaria-pill-chloroquine-tested-as-coronavirus-treatment-2020-3

It is not a stand alone treatment.... those that have successfully come out of Covid 19 while treated with this were given this
plus Z-pak and in some cases zinc.

Two [people that had used this successfully were on Laura Ingraham last night 3-25-20

All pretty cheap drugs.

Perhaps that is the problem???
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 07:18:14
Jaime,

And anyone else interested.

Since you are following the ratio of things as you can thought I would share this with you.

UPMC University of Pittsburgh Medical Center sent this to me this AM. It is worth noting they will only test those with symptoms.

____________________________________________ ___
UPMC Expands COVID-19 Testing
UPMC expects to expand testing capacity for COVID-19 over the next week.

Our health system tested about 80 select, symptomatic patients per day last week at a facility in Pittsburgh’s South Side neighborhood. We plan to double that amount over the next week to provide more help for people who need it.

So far, we have tested nearly 1,000 samples for COVID-19. Five of those samples tested positive.
____________________________________________ _____

They are located in Allegheny county, on of the worst in the state.

The stats for Allegheny county from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette as of today

88 people have it — 13 of them hospitalized, according to a statement released at 11 a.m. Wednesday.

In Allegheny, the number is up from Tuesday, when 58 cases were confirmed, and Monday, when there were 48 positive cases.

There have been 2 deaths.

Population of Allegheny county  1,220,656

So extremely low odds, but enough for the Governor to include the county in his 2 week "Stay at Home " orders ending April 6. (hopefully)

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 07:23:08
Yes Rella, a person can be infected and extremely contagous  with ZERO symptoms. We cannot know the death rates only testing those with symptoms that has gone to a doctor. I think what we are doing is helping immensely. The issue is obviously how long in each locale. Certainly in densely populated it will be necessary for more stringent measures to some degree. But a one size scenario fits all is not the way to go it seems.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 07:34:04
WHY?

India bans exports of drug touted by Trump as potential Covid-19 treatment

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/03/25/india-trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-covid19/

Steven Seedhouse, a biotech analyst at Raymond James, said chloroquine was just as promising as any treatment option for COVID-19. That includes remdesivir, an antiviral drug being developed by the giant biotech company Gilead Sciences that World Health Organization officials have called "the most promising candidate" for COVID-19 treatment.

He recently analyzed the early evidence for three top drugs being tested for COVID-19 — remdesivir, chloroquine, and Kaletra, an HIV drug sold by AbbVie — and concluded that chloroquine was the most promising candidate.

"If we had to pick one of the three at this point that actually seems most likely to have the biggest impact on treating COVID-19 in the coming months/years, it would be chloroquine," he said.

https://www.businessinsider.com/malaria-pill-chloroquine-tested-as-coronavirus-treatment-2020-3

It is not a stand alone treatment.... those that have successfully come out of Covid 19 while treated with this were given this
plus Z-pak and in some cases zinc.

Two [people that had used this successfully were on Laura Ingraham last night 3-25-20

All pretty cheap drugs.

Perhaps that is the problem???
Trump is the master. He spoke to a newsperson and said some thing like, that’s why we need to bring jobs back to America and not take them offshore.

Times like this a few people made money but destroyed the jobs and economy within their own country. Trump loves USA he loves and fights for his people. That he truly loves.

Things are going to change . More jobs coming back to USA . Pharmaceutical companies will return. India is stopping the drugs.26 drugs or key ingredients because it wants them for there own people.

I couldn’t believe it that they also have gone into a lock down until the heads can come up with a solution. Who done it . Well done

It gives them time to also plan without the public going crazy. That’s why The Who played there game. Creation of time, so countries could plan. That’s why DT said nothing to worry about and then all off a sudden had a A 1 team behind him. They have been working this out why calming our nerves.  I knew what he was doing all along. He took a hit for the American people knowing that the media would rip him apart.

When this is over,  we will see a more internal approach towards being self sufficient while engaging in fair trade. China 85% of all pharmaceuticals . I worked in Glaxo in NZ as a engineer before they got swallowed  up. Think about that. They started off as a milk baby factory in bunnythorpe just out of Palmerston North. NZ . The big fish swallowed them up and the share holders demanded even more profit.  We know it don’t we. Greed

That’s why DT hates the lying brought out media .puppets who keep the mindless amused. He’s been trolling them right from the start . Today he looked one of them in the eye and said ....this is why we need to bring jobs back home . Go DT.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 07:41:19
I agree Mark. When it hits the crowded slums of Bombay India and Bangladesh and the poor villages in Africa, it will be horrific. Maybe the saving grace will be that world travel in and out of those places is likely much less. The bell curve for the virus probably won’t be tamped down in those areas.

And that very well could answer what I asked in my reply above.

They know they will need it.

India bans exports of drug touted by Trump as potential Covid-19 treatment

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/03/25/india-trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-covid19/

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 07:53:27
Covid 9 is worse than the flue , because we have no herd immunity and little knowledge on how to handle it. also those who died off in past flues don’t breed again, Survival of the fittest.  Medicines and specialist equipment and hygiene have helped the weak survive.

Maybe making us weaker as a society, but then wasn't 40 years a long life in the dark  ages England. Give me the needle over the stick any day.

Covid 19 doesn't just attack the lungs but heart and liver as well. Those who have a condition or maybe within there DNA family line,  so young ones can get hit as well.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 07:55:59
And that very well could answer what I asked in my reply above.

They know they will need it.

India bans exports of drug touted by Trump as potential Covid-19 treatment

https://www.statnews.com/pharmalot/2020/03/25/india-trump-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-covid19/
bang on , not enough to go around in the short period of time that they will need it. It hits fast and sudden .
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 08:25:39
I agree Mark. When it hits the crowded slums of Bombay India and Bangladesh and the poor villages in Africa, it will be horrific. Maybe the saving grace will be that world travel in and out of those places is likely much less. The bell curve for the virus probably won’t be tamped down in those areas.
Actually without control measures in place you have exactly how it started in Wuhan . 1 or a few got infected first, then you got case case cluster cluster boom. Exponential growth. Its not in the early stages you get to see its numbers that impact , it’s in the last few. A piece of paper only has to be folded in half again and again 42 times to get to the moon in distance. One more fold it’s back to earth in distance.

 So world travel in and out of Africa may only matter a small bit. Maybe it takes 3 extra months till it gets to the point , like its the same as New York because of the amount of traffic. They are both now equal in infections . Sad days ahead indeed for Africa. Sad days indeed. Without control procedures and community knowledge and awareness you are screwed . I Q also comes into the picture. Action or lack of action brings consequences for good or for bad.  .  That’s why East Asians follow suit . High IQ
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 09:58:15
Professor Neil Ferguson, of the Imperial College Report and also Director of MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis, who headed up the doomsday warnings in the Imperial College report, now says this thing will peak in 2-3 weeks, then decline and in the U.K., he's expecting less than 20k deaths and the hospitals should be able to handle this peak in a couple of weeks. He sure changed his tune. Good news, for sure, but this is far from the 500k U.K. deaths he predicted just a couple of weeks ago.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/ https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196477/j-ideas-neil-ferguson-tells-mps-lockdown/
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 12:15:55
U.K. is downgrading this thing pretty rapidly-


https://www.scotsman.com/read-this/covid-19-not-considered-high-consequence-infectious-disease-it-still-vital-observe-lockdown-2519188
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 12:27:34
U.K. is downgrading this thing pretty rapidly-


https://www.scotsman.com/read-this/covid-19-not-considered-high-consequence-infectious-disease-it-still-vital-observe-lockdown-2519188

I hope we do too.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 12:48:52
Right now, there are 75,565 tested cases in the USA
*There are 1100 deaths
*An estimate I believe from the government of the UK earlier is that there are probably 12 people infected with Coronavirus for every 1 positive test due to limited testing.
*This would put an estimate of infected in the USA to about 906,780.
**Mortality rate in this scenario, which I believe is far closer to the truth so far is 0.0012
**Mortality rate from CDC numbers for 2018/2019 flu season is 0.00096
***If 35 million were infected with Coronavirus, which would be approximate 2018/19 flu illnesses, there would be 42,000 deaths.  Still in line with some of the past 10 years of flu.  2017/18 had a mortality rate of 0.0013

This is a bit of speculation, but real numbers and logical reasoning are used.  This pandemic is not necessarily the 1918 Spanish flu.
Title: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: M Luther on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 13:35:47
The black plague killed a third of Europe.  It is thought to have been spread by fleas from rats. When was the last time you were bit by a rat's fleas?  Today, treating the plague is a trivial matter of antibiotics, which didn't exist back then.

The Spanish Flu killed a lot of people a century ago. But, the usual mode of death was actually by opportunistic bacterial infections which are easily treated today by antibiotics.   Malnutrition was also common at the time, but now we have vitamin supplements and all-season produce.

The flu kills 30,000 to 60,000 Americans every year.  But, nearly all of these people already had one foot in the the grave.  The Chinese virus hasn't done nearly so much damage, nor killed healthier people.

The Bible calls in Christians to be wise as serpents (and innocent as doves), but most Christians practice worldly stupidity (as most Christian leaders groom Christians to be).   Our current "war" on the Chinese virus, like most of our wars, is not about the given pretext, but about those in power wanting to flex their muscle, strip our freedom, and in the case of Democrats hurt Trump by hurting America. Charmin paper products will be the least of our problems.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 13:59:57
Actually, if trump would just have kept his mouth shut and let the experts deal with it...there would have been no global run on this medicine and there would have been no reason for India to suspend export.

Sorry, ass-hat, PLENTY of DOCTORS were touting the potential benefits of it DAYS before Bad Orange Man first mentioned it.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 14:19:16
China lied?

https://trendingpolitics.com/breaking-china-lied-concealed-additional-43-coronavirus-cases/?utm_medium=klaviyo&utm_source=ilmf&_ke=eyJrbF9lbWFpbCI6ICJub3Jhd2VsbGVyMTAxQHlhaG9vLmNvbSIsICJrbF9jb21wYW55X2lkIjogIkppQ0U2RCJ9
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 14:26:30
It's true that influenza kills mostly by opening one to opportunistic infections by other organisms.    I'll bet when all this shakes out, that will be true of COVID-19 as well.  It's just that COVID-19 kills a lot more people who get infected than influenza does.   Currently, it's about 2.49% mortality for COVID-19, compared to 0.1% for influenza.

The key to saving more people, is to limit how many become ill at any one time, so we don't overwhelm the healthcare system.  Shutting down non-essential activities is a good way to do that.  It worked very well in South Korea, for example.

The question, as you have framed it, comes down to "how many people are we willing to let die, in order to get Trump re-elected?"   It's a deal with the devil, and I'm not talking about Trump.

BTW, it's not hurting him that badly.   He's still behind Biden, by that has changed very little over the past few weeks.   Yes, some polls have shown a lot of Americans don't trust him (while a lot of other do), but distrust went up slightly, and then when Trump acknowledged the crisis as real, went back to about where it was before.

So no one seems to be gaining or losing much politically at this point.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 14:43:35
Except Trump WILL and has gained from Nancy’s extreme buffoonery trying to weasel in many liberal things into the Covid19 stimulus bill as she could. Couldn’t let a real crisis pass them by (Rahm Emmanuel’s words). She didn’t have to do that and shouldn’t have, though us Trumpians are glad she did. This is a huge pile she has stepped in unnecessarily. Nancy is like the jelly of the month club. She thinks her radical socialist base will save the party. I would say save is not what they are doing. It’s something quite a bit more anatomical.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 15:01:45
The economy will not hurt Trump's re-election, reasonable people understand this is not his fault.  Last I heard some 2/3 of Americans were happy with how he is responding, that number has appears to have a direct relationship with how serious Trump is taking the threat.

You want to lose support, start putting the economy ahead of the lives of peoples loved one's.

One thing people also fail to consider is how much of this crash is the result of policy, and how much can be attributed to market factors, and group psychology, (maybe psychosis is a better word, should have bought stock in Charmin).  Rational or not, there has been a huge shift in demand, the market is ill equipped to handle such rapid change.




Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 17:03:45
The economy will not hurt Trump's re-election, reasonable people understand this is not his fault.  Last I heard some 2/3 of Americans were happy with how he is responding, that number has appears to have a direct relationship with how serious Trump is taking the threat.

Since he changed his message, it appears that he has recovered at least some of his losses.  And I notice that while he's trailing Biden even in conservative polls, he hasn't lost much support at all, since the COVID-19 pandemic arrived here.

Quote
You want to lose support, start putting the economy ahead of the lives of peoples loved one's.

Yes.  The Lt. Gov. of Texas said old people are being selfish, wanting to live, when controlling the outbreak will hurt the economy.    That seems like the argument some use to support abortion.

Quote
One thing people also fail to consider is how much of this crash is the result of policy, and how much can be attributed to market factors, and group psychology, (maybe psychosis is a better word, should have bought stock in Charmin).  Rational or not, there has been a huge shift in demand, the market is ill equipped to handle such rapid change.

In most things, it's more a matter of moving the material to market; the pipeline is only so big.   I have a cousin who is a trucker, and he's earning more than he ever has, running maximum permitted hours on the road.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: 4WD on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 17:31:38
It's true that influenza kills mostly by opening one to opportunistic infections by other organisms.    I'll bet when all this shakes out, that will be true of COVID-19 as well.  It's just that COVID-19 kills a lot more people who get infected than influenza does.   Currently, it's about 2.49% mortality for COVID-19, compared to 0.1% for influenza.
I will not be surprised if we find out that COVID-19 is really not all that much more lethal than influenza.  Right now we have [maybe] a handle on the number who have died, but we do not have a good handle on the actual numbers that have contracted the virus. 
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 19:35:24

 The Lt. Gov. of Texas said old people are being selfish, wanting to live, when controlling the outbreak will hurt the economy.   


No, he didn't say that.

Quote
That seems like the argument some use to support abortion.

You know that's not true, but yet you post it anyway. Shame on you.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 20:43:18
I agreed 100% with what Dan Patrick DID say. I am not in favor of destroying the economy and ultimately the future (survival)  for my grandkids in order to guarantee a higher chance of my survival now. The fix CANNOT be worse than the disease. Most if not all grandparents  would say the same. And I am absolutely convinced that not much more of this shut down is going to do irreparable harm to the economy. We have all screwed up the future enough for our grandkids with our ridiculous enormous debt burden. A mega recession because of the sudden and pretty complete shutdown of commerce would get us to that point here and it would not just be an everyday recession but likely an all out depression. And we are ill equipped to try and absorb anyway. Being an uber debtor nation puts us at uber risk for such a catastrophe. All the while the death rates for this virus are rapidly coming down with better testing data fonabmore accurate infected count for the death/infected ratio. A short term full court press was good, but not something that lasts 6 months to year or more. Like 4WD said, it likely will end up with not much higher of a death rate than a bad flu year with 10a of thousands of deaths in America that we have been more than willing to accept without shutting down our means of survival. Even though the thought of this being Bad Orange Man’s Katrina or Chernobyl was irresistable to some,  we will get past this virus relatively soon AND without destroying our grandkids future, selfishly??? I say wisely.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 21:28:13
It's true that influenza kills mostly by opening one to opportunistic infections by other organisms.    I'll bet when all this shakes out, that will be true of COVID-19 as well.  It's just that COVID-19 kills a lot more people who get infected than influenza does.   Currently, it's about 2.49% mortality for COVID-19, compared to 0.1% for influenza.

The key to saving more people, is to limit how many become ill at any one time, so we don't overwhelm the healthcare system.  Shutting down non-essential activities is a good way to do that.  It worked very well in South Korea, for example.

The question, as you have framed it, comes down to "how many people are we willing to let die, in order to get Trump re-elected?"   It's a deal with the devil, and I'm not talking about Trump.

BTW, it's not hurting him that badly.   He's still behind Biden, by that has changed very little over the past few weeks.   Yes, some polls have shown a lot of Americans don't trust him (while a lot of other do), but distrust went up slightly, and then when Trump acknowledged the crisis as real, went back to about where it was before.

So no one seems to be gaining or losing much politically at this point.

Again.  Your numbers on COVID-19 are just wrong.

If you looked at reported numbers, the world mortality rate is (24,073*100)/531,806=4.5% as of 10:00 pm EST tonight.  This is without including some estimate for positive cases that are untested.  UK recognizes about 12 positive per every positive test.  4.5%/12 = 0.37% which is 3 times as high as a bad flu season.

However, if you look at the USA numbers for now (as of this post), as of this posting using same methodology of 12 positive per every positive test, you get (1295*100)/(12*85,377)=0.13% which is in line with a very bad flu season.

Some helpful links:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

How Many Americans Have Coronavirus?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-proximitypoll-idUSKBN21D2XJ
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 21:31:06
I agreed 100% with what Dan Patrick DID say. I am not in favor of destroying the economy and ultimately the future (survival)  for my grandkids in order to guarantee a higher chance of my survival now. The fix CANNOT be worse than the disease. Most if not all grandparents  would say the same. And I am absolutely convinced that not much more of this shut down is going to do irreparable harm to the economy. We have all screwed up the future enough for our grandkids with our ridiculous enormous debt burden. A mega recession because of the sudden and pretty complete shutdown of commerce would get us to that point here and it would not just be an everyday recession but likely an all out depression. And we are ill equipped to try and absorb anyway. Being an uber debtor nation puts us at uber risk for such a catastrophe. All the while the death rates for this virus are rapidly coming down with better testing data to a more accurate infected count for the infected ratio. A short term full court press was good, but not something that lasts 6 months to year or more. Like 4WD said, it likely will end up with not much higher of a death rate than a bad flu year that we have been more than willing to accept without shutting down our means of survival. Even though the thought of this being Bad Orange Man’s Katrina was appealing to some. We will get oast this virus relatively soon AND without destroying our grandkids future, selfishly??? I say wisely.

So it's all about money then. Where do you draw the line?
If the upkeep of healthcare for elderly people becomes the reason why our children will have less money at their disposal...how about the other groups of people that create a burden on society?

How about people with a handicap? They do not contribute to the economy and cost money. Money that our children could use.
Should we expect handicapped people to sacrifice their lives as well?

How about slavery?
I am sure in their time the slave owners also saw the economy going down if they gave their slaves freedom.
Should we expect slaves to suffer for the good of the economy as well?

How about colonialism?
Just have a look at the economy of the UK. The moment the UK gave freedom to the colonies...gone was the economy.

The global economy is going to take a dip, the national debt is going to increase (BTW even without Covid-19 the national debt was increasing anyway).
Perhaps its time to the US to make a list of people who will have to go first, second, third etc to secure the economic welfare for the younger generation.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 21:35:14
The black plague killed a third of Europe.  It is thought to have been spread by fleas from rats. When was the last time you were bit by a rat's fleas?  Today, treating the plague is a trivial matter of antibiotics, which didn't exist back then.

....


I have a problem with the subject of this thread.
"There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation"

The fact that mass isolation did not happen in the past is not a reason to say there would have been no justification for it.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 21:36:40
So it's all about money then. Where do you draw the line?
If the upkeep of healthcare for elderly people becomes the reason why our children will have less money at their disposal...how about the other groups of people that create a burden on society?

How about people with a handicap? They do not contribute to the economy and cost money. Money that our children could use.
Should we expect handicapped people to sacrifice their lives as well?

How about slavery?
I am sure in their time the slave owners also saw the economy going down if they gave their slaves freedom.
Should we expect slaves to suffer for the good of the economy as well?

How about colonialism?
Just have a look at the economy of the UK. The moment the UK gave freedom to the colonies...gone was the economy.

The global economy is going to take a dip, the national debt is going to increase (BTW even without Covid-19 the national debt was increasing anyway).
Perhaps its time to the US to make a list of people who will have to go first, second, third etc to secure the economic welfare for the younger generation.

Slavery?   ::doh:: rofl

Colonialism?   ::doh:: rofl

Kill all the handicapped?   ::doh:: rofl

Are you on your way to the doofus convention tonight? I haven't seen so much idiocy lumped into one post in a long time.   rofl

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 21:48:58
No one, including Dan Patrick is saying force old people out to get exposed to coronavirus. No one.
No one said force handicapped people out to get exposed. No one.

You people making this up should be ashamed of yourselves.

Dan Patrick said he wants to get back out and work on the future for his grandkids and he knows other grandparents who want to get out and do the same. NOT ONCE did he say or imply that anyone would force old people out of any self-quarantine they're in and force them to work or get exposed to coronavirus. He's saying for older people who WANT to get back out and work for their family's future, they should be allowed.

If grandpa Joe wants to get back to his company and start working - why can't he make that decision for himself?

If 70 year old grandpa Joe goes back to work, how does that threaten the health of his 75 year old neighbor Grandpa Jim who chooses to self quarantine? It doesn't!
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 22:30:31
This is interesting-

Democratic Governor Cuomo is starting to push herd immunity for his state.

This is interesting on several levels.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 22:33:00
This is interesting-

Democratic Governor Cuomo is starting to push herd immunity for his state.

This is interesting on several levels.

But he's a Democrat.  The news won't say he is hateful towards old people and wants them to die.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 23:00:21
If grandpa Joe wants to get back to his company and start working - why can't he make that decision for himself?

Because if grandpa Joe goes back to work and bumps into grandpa John who is infected, he may pass it on to grandpa Jim who then goes home after work and infect grandma Julie who then infects son James who in turn infects granddaugther Jane.
So instead of giving his granddaughter a happy economy, he just gave her Covid-19.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Mar 26, 2020 - 23:19:29
Because if grandpa Joe goes back to work and bumps into grandpa John who is infected, he may pass it on to grandpa Jim who then goes home after work and infect grandma Julie who then infects son James who in turn infects granddaugther Jane.
So instead of giving his granddaughter a happy economy, he just gave her Covid-19.

And after all of that Grandpa Jim will start the country on colonialism, and Grandpa John will start owning slaves, while Grandpa Joe will advocate killing all of the handicapped, while Grandma Julie, James, and daughter Jane clap but realize Grandma Julie is going first, all because of Covid19.

 rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 06:08:29
Again people if we destroy the economy, which we are or were on the way to doing, THAT world would end up much more difficult and just as deadly as a world with a run away pandemic. Total chaos reigning everywhere, no jobs no money for food. No food To Buy. What about a total economic collapse would be preferable for anybody? We are on the precipice of that teetering anyway. Some say we passed the tipping point years ago.

No AVZ it is not all a out money. It is about our grandkid’s death rate in the future,  EXCEPT NOT just 1% to 10%. We can likely adjust our behavior to slow down the pandemic. There is no adjusting to economic chaos and societal breakdown. Which would be unlike anything we have seen except maybe in the Mad Maxx Thunderdome movie. I am talking a STARK scenario, NOT a situation where everything remains normal with a little less money. A lawless place ran by gangs. Where home ownership would exist only for the strongest and meanest. Where you could be broken into and literally thrown out of your house, to survive on the street. THAT type of thing. Not just having a few less dollars in my pocket, and no place to buy anything anyway. That’s the mind of world I want to avoid. There is NO luke warm version in a total economic collapse. And we are not immune.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 07:46:31
Again people if we destroy the economy, which we are or were on the way to doing, THAT world would end up much more difficult and just as deadly as a world with a run away pandemic. Total chaos reigning everywhere, no jobs no money for food. No food To Buy. What about a total economic collapse would be preferable for anybody? We are on the precipice of that teetering anyway. Some say we passed the tilling point years ago.

No AVZ it is not all a out money. It is about our grandkid’s death rate in the cuture,  EXCEPT NOT just 1% to 10%. We can likely adjust our behavior to slow down the pandemic. There is no adjusting to economic chaos and societal breakdown. Which would be unlike anything we have seen except maybe in the Mad Maxx Thunderdome movie. I am talking a STARK choice, NOT a situation where everything remains normal with a little less money. A lawless place ran by gangs. Where home ownership would exist only for the strongest and meanest. Where you could be broken into and literally thrown out of your house, to survive on the street. That type of thing. Not just having a Few leas dollars in my pocket, and no place to buy anything anyway. That’s the mind of world I want to avoid. There is NO luke warm version in a total economic collapse. And we are not immune.

If you want an example of total economic collapse, all you need to do is look at the 1928 stock crash which took the whole world into a recession.
Did you see any gangs taking over the country? Or people taking over homes from each other at the end of a gun?

You say: "There is no adjusting to economic chaos and societal breakdown".
That simply is not true. Economies and societies have collapsed many times in history. People have adjusted and recovered.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: 4WD on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 08:04:23
If you want an example of total economic collapse, all you need to do is look at the 1928 stock crash which took the whole world into a recession.
Did you see any gangs taking over the country? Or people taking over homes from each other at the end of a gun?

You say: "There is no adjusting to economic chaos and societal breakdown".
That simply is not true. Economies and societies have collapsed many times in history. People have adjusted and recovered.
The situation in 1928 will be considered calm and collected compared to what will happen today if the economy collapses; that is, actually collapses, not just enters into a recession. All you have to do is look at Cuba, Venezuela, Mozambique.  It will not be just hard times, it will be utter chaos. All of which is what the democrats are driving the U.S. to be. Don't believe me?  Look up Cloward-Piven or Alynski's Rules for Radicals.  And that, by the way, is precisely why they are doing their best to get rid of guns altogether.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 08:08:33
We are talking WORLDWIDE collapse as the world chokes off its economies. The world today is different than the 1928 world especially the USA. We are far more urban and way less self sufficiently agrarian.

I say it’s WAY better  to co-exist with the virus than a modern day economic collapse. Mainly because we are a far more helpless society than our forefathers in 1928.

By the way, my policeman son-in-law told me our local police is operating with the scenario I am talking about close in the back of their mind. Especially with our local oil and gas dissolving before our eyes and pink slips flying with the Saudi/Russian thing in addition to everything else. In past oil busts, geologist and engineers etc could get work in hamburger joints. Not so much anymore. When chunks of the population can’t feed or shelter their families, it will progress rapidly. The entire country is now addicted to the every day or so grocery run or eating out. When the delivery trucks stop, it will be real in a hurry.

Again, not talking about isolated pockets of bad economy. I’m talking worldwide collapse, and not just a slowed economy. A “come to a screeching halt once WAS economy.” The availability of butt wipes will be the least of our worries.

Most people nowadays do not have a garden or can vegetables etc or have livestock to slaughter to eat. My family members  in 1928 all had such and could make it a long time whether the deliver trucks came or not to the local town. They had recently lived prior to then largely without electricity and without automobiles  in the rural areas. We are not so equipped for the most part. Our society today is MUCH softer and way Less Independent and WaY more in debt.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 09:31:44
We are talking WORLDWIDE collapse as the world chokes off its economies. The world today is different than the 1928 world especially the USA. We are far more urban and way less self sufficiently agrarian.

I say it’s WAY better  to co-exist with the virus than a modern day economic collapse. Mainly because we are a far more helpless society than our forefathers in 1928.

By the way, my policeman son-in-law told me our local police is operating with the scenario I am talking about close in the back of their mind. Especially with our local oil and gas dissolving before our eyes and oink slips flying with the Saudi/Russian thing in addition to everything else. In past oil busts, geologist and engineers etc could get work in hamburger joints. Not so much anymore. When chunks of the population can’t feed or shelter their families, it will progress rapidly. The entire country is now addicted to the every day or so grocery run or eating out. When the delivery trucks stop, it will be real in a hurry.

Again, not talking about isolated pockets of bad economy. I’m talking worldwide collapse, and not just a slowed economy. A “come to a screeching halt once WAS economy. The availability of butt wipes will be the least of our worries.

Most people nowadays do not have a garden or can vegetables etc or have livestock to slaughter to eat. My family members  in 1928 all had such and could make it a long time whether the deliver trucks came or not to the local town. They had lived prior to then largely without electricity and without automobiles a little esrlier in the rural areas. We are not so equipped for the most part. Our society today is MUCH softer and way Leas Independent.

You cannot have it both ways. Either you are part of a global economy, in which you as a single nation would not be able to crank up the economy...or you take the position that if all Americans would go back to work you would be able to secure a future for your grandchildren.

If the US economy is interdependent on the economies of the rest of the world, going back to work in the USA alone would be a futile exercise.
You would achieve absolutely nothing for your grandchildren.

But if you think you can run a unilateral economy, by all means go right ahead, ignore that little annoyance called "Covid-19" and start up the factories.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 09:37:53
I would have no problem sacrificing myself for the economy, my life is hardly worth the suffering (including loss of life not to Covid but because of the cure) this economic collapse will cause.  So when I hear folks with similiar sentiment I understand.  But I wonder if they have truly thought it through.

First, sacrificing myself has a huge impact on my family, not to mention, who is going to shingle my roof this spring?  Those who commit suicide often get so concerned with themselves they fail to consider those they left behind, are we doing that here. 

Secondly, it seems selfless on the surface, but you are not just sacrificing yourself, your decision necessarily sacrifices many others.  This is more akin to a murder suicide, than a suicide. 

Thirdly, policy has less to do with this crash than natural forces.  Locally our economy crashed not because of gov't intervention, but because of consumer behaviour, folks priorities change.  In my retail mall half a dozen businesses shut down about the same time;  two of those were forced to, the other four simply had no customers.  Although anecdotal, I suspect this is happening everywhere.  The sacrifice of lives may be in vain.

Lets imagine for a minute I have a son with asthma and breathing issues,  Our decision to sacrifice ourselves could very well be a decision to sacrifice him, and thousands like him.  If the worst happens, and I request prayer for his recovery, I wonder what that prayer will look like, will I first have to ask forgiveness for my part in his predicament, I put his life and the lives of many others on the block for a better economy when I know full well:

Matthew 6:25-34 (NIV)
Do Not Worry
25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes? 26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life[a]?

28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.



Some might consider it a lack of faith to worry about this virus and take these precautions.  Heard a minister about a week ago encouraging folks to come to church because they are protected by the blood of Christ.  Sounds a bit like climbing to the top of the steeple and jumping, expecting an army of angels to catch me.  Do not put the Lord your God to the test.  Further, God seems to endorse hygiene and protocol to protect the masses from infectious agents.


Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 09:51:24
My thought Carey, is we can co exist with some inconvenience with the virus or we can guarantee pretty much universal death and destruction and suffering with an economic collapse. The point is we can do both, deal with the virus AND deal with the economy, but the solution is NOT the economy the virus. We bave never selv circumcised the economy over 50 or 50 million deaths A hear in THIS country, much less a virus that seems to have a similar death rate once adequate testing is done. A bad flu outbreak doesn’t kill everyone, though millions may die and this one doesn’t kill  many more it seems if a more and more accurate death rate means anything. No deaths are “OK”, bit we non THIS country have trucked along with dozens of episodes of millions of deaths barely lofting a finger of national concern. This one started out very concerning with early data, and a very scary death rate. With better and better and more testing, the death rate is coming way down. The denominator or number of KNOWN infections count is going up resulting in a lower death rate. Meaning a whole lot of people have and are not dying  or even getting very sick. We have gone off the reservation over a thousand or so deaths in this country and everyone of them is tragic, but we have in the  past had MILLIONS of deaths accummulate in a year here and never even hear much about it, much less shut down the country over it. The curve is being tamped down, the death rate is coming to less scary levels. We may likely have this as a seasonal cycle as Dr Faucci said today. I doubt we would be annually shitting sown our economy for 4 to 6 months. It would destroy us. Will we have learned something from this time around, ABSOLUTELY! Can we survive it AND have a decent economy as well. I absolutely don’t think it’s either or, but if it was, I would be for preserving our grandkids future because I DO think an economic collapse would be far worse than even this pandemic. No chance of the two being a wash or equivalent in my opinion. I have little faith in the PRESENT economy and are worried sick about the grandkids before the virus hit.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 10:09:38
My thought Carey, is we can co exist with some inconvenience with the virus or we can guarantee pretty much universal death and destruction an suffering with an economic collapse. The point we can do both, deal with the virus AND deal with the economy, but the solution is NOT the economy the virus. We bave never selv circumcised the economy over 50 or 50 million deaths A hear in THIS country, much less a virus that seems to have a similar death rate once adequate testing is done. A bad flu outbreak doesn’t kill everyone, though millions may die and this one doesn’t kill  many more it seems if a more and more accurate death rate means anything. No deaths are “OK”, bit we non THIS country have trucked along with dozens of episodes of millions of deaths barely lofting a finger of national concern. This one started out very concerning with early data, and a very scary death rate. With better and better and more testing, the death rate is coming way down. The denominator or number of KNOWN infections count is going up resulting in a lower death rate. Meaning a whole lot of people have and are not dying  or even getting very sick. We have gone off the reservation over a thousand or so deaths in this country and everyone of them is tragic, but we have in the  past had MILLIONS of deaths accummulate in a year here and never even hear much about it, much less shut down the country over it. The curve is being tamped down, the death rate is coming to less scary levels. We may likely have this as a seasonal cycle as Dr Faucci said today. I doubt we would be annually shitting sown our economy for 4 to 6 months. It would destroy us. Will we have learned something from this time around, ABSOLUTELY!

All you have seen of Covid-19 is what damage it does in a controlled environment.
The death rate you compare to that of the common flu, is the death rate Covid-19 produces when cities and countries go on lockdown and people in quarantine.

You want the US to let Covid-19 go freely through the population, like you do with the flu?
By all means, open up New York and let the people flow into the rest of the USA.

Maybe you should open the doors of your house to some of them, and present them with a welcoming hug when they arrive.
After all, whats the worst thing that could happen to you?
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 10:17:30
Never said we let it run free. We have learned social distancing and will have to continue with a mot of what we have learned, but total shutdown NO, not with death rates going down close to a bad flu pandemic, NOT the pandemic from hell we originally feared. We did the right thing with the info we had. now  we are getting better updated data, as with all pandemics as time passes, with better and more testing. That is if science and math are to be believed. Initially we heard nothing BUT the awful apparent death rates. No one can deny that with better testing the death rate has gone dramatically down. (Deaths to known Cases) Maybe not enough to spare hundreds of thousands, but definitely not a world stopper or ender as it appeared in the beginning.

I’ve got things to do, i will check back maybe in a few hours or so. Ya’ll carry on.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 10:46:24
My thought Carey, is we can co exist with some inconvenience with the virus or we can guarantee pretty much universal death and destruction an suffering with an economic collapse. The point we can do both, deal with the virus AND deal with the economy, but the solution is NOT the economy the virus. We bave never selv circumcised the economy over 50 or 50 million deaths A hear in THIS country, much less a virus that seems to have a similar death rate once adequate testing is done. A bad flu outbreak doesn’t kill everyone, though millions may die and this one doesn’t kill  many more it seems if a more and more accurate death rate means anything. No deaths are “OK”, bit we non THIS country have trucked along with dozens of episodes of millions of deaths barely lofting a finger of national concern. This one started out very concerning with early data, and a very scary death rate. With better and better and more testing, the death rate is coming way down. The denominator or number of infectioms countnis is going up resulting in a lower death rate.

Hi Jaime,

Understand that I have laboured over this for some time.  I have come to some conclusions that are certainly open for debate.  I have also argued both sides of this issue, which was not really playing devil's advocate, which I am often guilty of, but from a sincere position.

What I can tell you is that this event has given me a taste of my mortality, even at 54, I still have a misguided, youthful sense of immortality.  I need to get this right, very soon I may be standing before God.  From a common sense, secular point of view, I am conflicted on what is the best path, but frankly, from a spiritual point of view that path becomes much clearer.  I am open to Biblical arguments for stopping restrictions, but have been unable to come up with anything that is very convincing, and this has lead me to my current position.

Your opinion is certainly as valid as mine, and I do not profess to have a superior spiritual position, got that beam in my eye malady, but it is where I am today.  I haven't been here for a while, if you can direct me to a decent spiritual argument either here or elsewhere, I would truly appreciate it.

Everybody, the position you take on this issue is a serious one, it is a good time to do some reading, soul searching, and trying to see this issue from all sides.  Above all, be very sensitive to the fact that precautions or not, we may soon be standing before God.

Busy for a while but I will be back soon.  Stay safe everyone.




Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 10:51:27
Carey, I am 67 and I come by my views on this from being a grand dad and realizing what a screwed up world we are leaving our grandkids. Yes, I take my share of the blame for that, I tend to fight to keep from worsening that legacy to our grandkids. I understand people differ, but I don’t see my and Dan Patrick’s view as selfish. A selfish view to me would be damn the torpedoes and save MY behind. Data shows the virus isn’t as deadly as we thought though of course serious. We have a problem but it isn’t hopeless. If I thought it was hopeless, Maybe I would think differently. We have every reason to be hopeful at least as much as with any bad pandemic. (Even the ones where hundreds of thousands died in America in a single year without an economic self circumcision). When we get close to the 3 score and 10 years, something is always lurking. This year I have had several close friends die unexpectedly. That happens thousands of time each day around the country and tragically of course. I just don’t want to expedite my grandkids generation’s quick demise in an economic collapse. That would be short sighted if not selfish in my book.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 11:35:58
Carey, I am 67 and I come by my views on this from being a grand dad and realizing what a screwed up world we are leaving our grandkids. Yes, I take my share of the blame for that, I tend to fight to keep from worsening that legacy to our grandkids. I understand people differ, but I don’t see my and Dan Patrick’s view as selfish. A selfish view to me would be damn the torpedoes and save MY behind. Data shows the virus isn’t as deadly as we thought though of course serious. We have a problem but it isn’t hopeless. If I thought it was hopeless, Maybe I would think differently. We have every reason to be hopeful at least as much as with any bad pandemic. (Even the ones where hundreds of thousands died in America in a single year without an economic self circumcision). When we get close to the 3 score and 10 years, something is always lurking. This year I have had several close friends die unexpectedly. That happens thousands of time each day around the country and tragically of course. I just don’t want to expedite my grandkids generation’s quick demise in an economic collapse. That would be short sighted if not selfish in my book.

Jaime, I will respond more later, but know that I did not call the willingness to self sacrifice selfish, from the perspective of those doing so it is certainly not, it is indeed selfless, just want to make sure folks realize that it is not only themselves they are sacrificing. 

That said, I do not fear death in the least, some days I even look forward to it, so I am not sure how much of a sacrifice my offer to self sacrifice really is.  As Peter Pan said, to die would be a great adventure.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 11:51:20
I do not consider my view is sacrificing others anymore than any other BAD Pandemic we have experienced without trashing the economy. If. The death rates we are now seeing is correct. It’s definitely better info than we had initially.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 11:56:35
It's probably difficult for beta males to understand alpha males who chomp at the bits to be bold, take chances, and do everything in their power to right wrongs and provide for their families.

Thank God for the alpha male.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 12:40:19
Carey, I am 67 and I come by my views on this from being a grand dad and realizing what a screwed up world we are leaving our grandkids. Yes, I take my share of the blame for that, I tend to fight to keep from worsening that legacy to our grandkids.

And yet you would gladly lay down your life, so your grandchildren can continue to live happily in that world that is screwed up?
If indeed the economy is so screwed up, would it not be better if it were to collapse so we can start over again and maybe do it right this time?
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 12:46:35
And yet you would gladly lay down your life, so your grandchildren ....

See my above post.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 12:51:32
It's probably difficult for beta males to understand alpha males who chomp at the bits to be bold, take chances, and do everything in their power to right wrongs and provide for their families.

Thank God for the alpha male.

Nonsense,

For the alpha male the health and safety of his herd is of utmost importance,  many a field goes ungrazed because the bull thinks it not worth the risk.

Risk needs to be assessed, taking chances without due consideration, can lead to the loss of the herd. 

Should also point out that their is only One alpha male.   ::pondering::   ::smile::







Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 12:52:20

If indeed the economy is so screwed up, would it not be better if it were to collapse so we can start over again and maybe do it right this time?

Sitting there in your part of the world, filled with jealousy, and drooling over the thought of the US's collapse is as nasty as your wet markets and stir fried dog culture.



Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 14:05:23
No AVZ it would not be better to let it collapse. If we go, the whole world wlll go and no one to build it back. Yes we have jeopardized our grandkids future through stupid liberal policies to a degree. But we haven’t pushed it over the edge yet as it would be with a total complete shut down and collapse. There is no reason we can’t make it through the virus and NOT destroy the economy. To think it’s one or the other is ludicrous with the virus we now know about. It shouldn’t even approach an either or scenario at this point with the better data we have. No reason to drop our guard either. Both are very doable. I know the lure to cheer for Trump to experience a monumental failure is enticing, but that will be for the Dems in November. That’s when we will witness the Dempanic instead of the Pandemic.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 14:05:56
The death rate adjusted for the number of true positives is still in inline with a bad flu outbreak.

As far as AVZ's assertion that the deaths may be less due to the shutdowns?  Possibly true.  Especially if the final death count is nowhere near a bad flu year due to the lack of actual total estimated infections.

The question of it being worth it or not compared to the inaction with the yearly flu remains to be seen.  The economic impact overall remains to be seen.
 However, it is already placing some residents of this country in a position of starvation like illegal immigrants, who do not qualify for any handouts and are losing their cash only jobs.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 14:07:25
And yet you would gladly lay down your life, so your grandchildren can continue to live happily in that world that is screwed up?
If indeed the economy is so screwed up, would it not be better if it were to collapse so we can start over again and maybe do it right this time?

When are you gonna grow some balls and tell us about where you are from?  What is your countries positives and negatives.

Your fear of listing where you reside coupled with your attitude tell me you are a bit jelly of life in the US, and you lash it because of it.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 14:46:19
Not to mention the gut wrenching fear that Trump MIGHT NOT be blamed for a runaway virus AND a collapsed economy.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 18:00:09
Since he changed his message, it appears that he has recovered at least some of his losses.  And I notice that while he's trailing Biden even in conservative polls, he hasn't lost much support at all, since the COVID-19 pandemic arrived here.

Yes.  The Lt. Gov. of Texas said old people are being selfish, wanting to live, when controlling the outbreak will hurt the economy.    That seems like the argument some use to support abortion.

In most things, it's more a matter of moving the material to market; the pipeline is only so big.   I have a cousin who is a trucker, and he's earning more than he ever has, running maximum permitted hours on the road.

Hi Barbarian,

Cannot help seeing this as a huge opportunity for Trump.  The extreme left will hold a grudge, but most folks will cut him some slack.  He doesn't have to be perfect, or brilliant, just competent. 
I know many folks here think we are doing too much, but we are already in deep.  His re-election is his to lose, I think the only thing that could cost him re-election is stopping the measures in place too early and having a disaster on his hands.  Easter may be a bit early to relax the measures in place, it will be interesting to see where we are at that time.

Cheers brother, stay safe.
Carey.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 18:13:11
You know that's not true, but yet you post it anyway. Shame on you.
Although I don't think it is analogous to this situation, it is true that some pro abortion types appeal to the economy to make their case.

I have heard it argued that access to abortion is economically beneficial to women entering or in the work force, and has a positive influence on the economy.  I recall a study that made those claims.  Further, I have heard folks say that all those aborted babies would be a drain on society because their mothers cannot support them.



Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 19:38:15
Abortion supporters have floated every excuse balloon conceivable to justify abortion. Most of their excuses could be used to euthanize old people and still qualify either way as pure evil. If we were talking puppies or kittens, now that would be going an atrocity too far for some.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Fri Mar 27, 2020 - 22:40:57
Not to mention the gut wrenching fear that Trump MIGHT NOT be blamed for a runaway virus AND a collapsed economy.

Trump is not liable for Covid-19 or a subsequent collapse of the economy.
Similar to any other country leader however, he will have to be accountable for the response to it or the lack thereof.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 00:14:47
The death rate adjusted for the number of true positives is still in inline with a bad flu outbreak.

As far as AVZ's assertion that the deaths may be less due to the shutdowns?  Possibly true.  Especially if the final death count is nowhere near a bad flu year due to the lack of actual total estimated infections.

The question of it being worth it or not compared to the inaction with the yearly flu remains to be seen.  The economic impact overall remains to be seen.
 However, it is already placing some residents of this country in a position of starvation like illegal immigrants, who do not qualify for any handouts and are losing their cash only jobs.

The US has now crossed 100,000 known infections, and the death toll is rapidly approaching 2000 victims.
Hospitals in affected area's are filling up rapidly,
Over 60,000 healthcare volunteers will be activated in New York alone to deal with the outbreak
Medical students have graduated fast track and are now assigned to active duty
Casualties are now stored in freezer trucks because hospitals cannot deal with the increase
People are lined up outside hospitals to get tested
The government has issued a USD 2 Trillion support package
Trump invokes the DPA on General Motors
etc etc

And all this happens with cities and countries on lockdown, with people in isolation, companies closed and streets deserted.
How does anything like this look like a bad flu outbreak to you?

Here you have the link to the latest comparative statistics:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Note that many of the other countries are 2 weeks or more ahead of the US.

It is absolutely unintelligible to propose the Covid situation is anything like the common flu, or we should respond as if it is.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 01:00:03
In the spirit About 5 days ago I saw a surf life saving boat . One of those competition ones with the oars . I saw the right side and they was ready to brace for the impact of the wave. There hands grabbed the top rail . I saw the boat hit the wave. Then I was taken to see that there was 3-4 more waves coming. I wasn’t sure what it means and still don’t know but this is moving so fast So I’ will just release the vision.

Not until now , in part , I figured out what the boat was. It was a life saving boat . Our medical systems (boat) our leaders , there systems (leaderSHIP) and those within the boat our wonderful lifesavers. Our lifesavers who are battling to get ahead of this. They are bracing now because the first wave has just hit them . They are not over it. I have watched this sport from time to time about 1 hour all up in my life. I know they have to hit that wave straight or the wave destroys them and the boat. . Then they brace and then it’s all manpower to the oars again. Because then they have to row out to meet the next wave. They row and then brace . Move forward row, brace.

We are in a battle and those who are rowing to save mankind. I’m sorry it’s not  complete. The first wave is not the finish of it .
i have  been looking at this replaying what I had seen about 3-4 days ago .The vision then expanded to reveal even more.

The life boat did not hit the first wave square on but was veering to the left.  The wave hit it, lifted it and pushed it backwards. It lost ground and was now in the whitewater. I looked behind me and I could see the rocks on the shore land, and I was thinking is it going to be pushed onto the rocks.There was fear and panic on board.  I then looked forwards and in the front of the boat. In the middle I saw D. Trump and he was yelling ROW ROW ROW . I saw the oars go into action and he yelled ROW ROW ROW.  If you have ever done surfing after a big wave hits you, there is a lot of bubbly whitewater around it’s hard to get momentum. You really have to dig deep and grind it through with power, or the next wave will just keep pushing you back further into the shore. His face was set as flint. Then i saw  behind him and there was Nancy P in the middle of the boat standing in the rear off It . Maybe just maybe God is going to use these 2 in the boat to bring you through and stop any shipwreck.

God has chosen people for such a time as this.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: AVZ on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 01:11:33
i have  been looking at this replaying what I had seen about 3-4 days ago .The vision then expanded to reveal even more.

The life boat did not hit the wave square on but was veering to the left.  The wave hit it, lifted it and pushed it backwards. It lost ground and was now in the whitewater. I looked behind me and I could see the rocks on the shore land, and I was thinking is it going to be pushed onto the rocks.There was fear and panic on board.  I then looked forwards and in the front of the boat. In the middle I saw D. Trump and he was yelling ROW ROW ROW . I saw the oars go into action and he yelled ROW ROW ROW.  If you have ever done surfing after a big wave hits you, there is a lot of bubbly whitewater around it’s hard to get momentum. You really have to dig deep and grind it through with power, or the next wave will just keep pushing you back further into the shore. His face was set as flint. Then i saw  behind him and there was Nancy P in the middle of the boat standing in the rear off It . Maybe just maybe God is going to use these 2 in the boat to bring you through and stop any shipwreck.

God has chosen people for such a time as this.

Just curious.
How do you replay a vision to get more info?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 02:52:38
Just curious.
How do you replay a vision to get more info?
you recall it from memory and you enter the kingdom, and sit with it. The place where you are with him. Then you start to focus in on it. Sometime you get something , it’s when you are just recalling it and trying to get understanding. You sit with it in the anointing. Sometimes it happens.if it needs to happen it will.He allows it  to happen. I can’t make it happen.  There is a reason why God opens up the eye of the body.  Normally when and only if the Lord wants to bring more. The message I got from  the second was like. Hay it’s going to be a shock, people are freaking out , the economy is going to crash etc etc. maybe but maybe not.  but the Lord has  heard boths side cry out. I am with you in this storm. I have placed 2 of my captains within this boat. That shocked me to see that in the spirit realm.caught me so off guard.  One will steer towards economic growth and Nancy she represents at the rear off the boat direction as she is controlling the stern. Power and direction to ensure both the cries of save the people save the economy.

Above all get understanding and that’s what I’m working on.  Its not complete but the message is he has heard the cry. No matter what happens God is good always. He has a plan and in the end it will work out for good. We will look back maybe in years to come and see what we can’t see now.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 02:58:39
And as I see how I have tried to explain it . I correct sometimes what I’ve said because it clearer. The more I look, like the word the more you look and study it becomes clearer. Both are living For example . The boat was veering to the left. When I recall by memory I never saw the boat turn to the left. It got hit as it was looking at 10 o’clock on a clock face.

That would be better explained . They just didn’t have time to get it all in order because it came upon them so fast and sudden, on us all
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 03:00:29
And I’m looking and now wondering . The 2 that just couldn’t get on . They both have a different skill set. For such a time as this
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 04:00:54
And I also saw a person get tossed out on the left side. She was hanging on to the outside of the boat rail, in the water, wiping water of her face looking confused, stunned . It WAS A.O.C. I saw her face in the spirit. Still had her makeup on.....her lipstick. Her mouth is her piece. Jezebel adorned her eyes.

So then only now ....I have just looked up on YouTube and she’s ranting and raving . A.O.C

I’m going to be watching this one from  now on as well.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Dave_UK on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 04:32:37
I got a bit tired of reading through COVID-19 threads - but came back to the story on MSN about the UK Derbyshire village of EYAM, that isolated itself in the late 1600s to avoid spreading the bubonic plague, moving outwards from London, -to try to stop it's progress further northwards.  Their self-sacrifice was costly but effective!

 Of course things were very different in those times and it was probably a more self-sufficient agrarian society!

 Today there are some COVID-19 cases in the village - and the parallel with the village's earlier plague action is IMO thought provoking.  It really does seem as if in the first instance we need to do more social distancing and try to avoid possible sources of virus infection.

 Like a lot of other countries, the UK has been slow to prepare for this pandemic - and there are now all sorts of panic measures needed to "get with it"!  I just wish the "panic-buying" in supermarkets would soon stop!
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: RB on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 04:36:14
Similar to any other country leader however, he will have to be accountable for the response to it or the lack thereof.
(emphasises are mine~RB) AVZ, that mentality is the very manner in which crooked lawyers trap their opposing witnesses! (NOT saying you have their same spirit, for I do not believe you do) If answer one then all other questions following will find yourselves supporting what he desires you to support/answer to support his case.

So, you have placed our president in a NO WIN situation. I will not respond back very much on this thread, for I truly have very little desire to fight such battles, it takes us away for serving Christ in the manner in which we should serve him. I have always had a lot of respect for you, and still do, but it seems you have been sidetrack (for the moment I trust) from using your God-given talents. Just my two cent worth.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 07:01:06
AVZ, the proper way to address this in the US is to address the hot spots as Trump and his health advisers have advocated, focusing on susceptible populations, and loosen up the other areas in order to have a semblance of an economy. Address crowded hot spots aggressively, and the rest of the country maintain “reasonable” social distancing practices. I may never shake hands again! I may never go an hour without washing my hands for 20 seconds. I am convinced we will have an explosion of people working from home. We will never view grocery shopping the same again.

It’s all about death rates. And this virus is moving to the death rate range of a bad flu. Not saying it is addressed identically as a flu virus, but it is definitely not the hopeless monster it first was considered. Yes it is serious.

And absolutely yes, there is a segment of our population rooting for a runaway virus AND a collapsed economy to get rid of Trump in November. The media is tingling with that anticipation as they foment the panic. We can successfully address the virus AND maintain an economy unless the panic mongers succeed.

No one here is saying this is a flu. We are comparing death rates! Death rates in the beginning caused a lot of concern. As we get better death rate info with more and better data, we have a more accurate picture of what we face. The world is forever changed no doubt, but we will adjust and the panic will subside, EVEN if the NUMBER OF CASES increase here towards the curve peak. The death rate matters which is why massive testing of this new and novel virus is so important. Yes too many people WILL die as with EVERY pandemic, whether new and novel or a seasonal repeat every year. Those that die and their families are tragically affected as victims and their families of every pandemic.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 11:53:28
(emphasises are mine~RB) AVZ, that mentality is the very manner in which crooked lawyers trap their opposing witnesses! (NOT saying you have their same spirit, for I do not believe you do) If answer one then all other questions following will find yourselves supporting what he desires you to support/answer to support his case.

So, you have placed our president in a NO WIN situation. I will not respond back very much on this thread, for I truly have very little desire to fight such battles, it takes us away for serving Christ in the manner in which we should serve him. I have always had a lot of respect for you, and still do, but it seems you have been sidetrack (for the moment I trust) from using your God-given talents. Just my two cent worth.

Well said Red,
AVZ provides this board with needed diversity, and is for the most part a reasonable person, with valuable information to share, but this grudge impedes the message.

Hey AVZ, I haven't said one bad thing about Justin Trudeau in at least a month, I dare you to do the same with Trump.  ::smile::

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Carey on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 12:00:21
Abortion supporters have floated every excuse balloon conceivable to justify abortion. Most of their excuses could be used to euthanize old people and still qualify either way as pure evil. If we were talking puppies or kittens, now that would be going an atrocity too far for some.

Exactly.  It should not be surprising to see that every angle possible has been used in support of killing babies.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 15:53:27
The US has now crossed 100,000 known infections, and the death toll is rapidly approaching 2000 victims.
Hospitals in affected area's are filling up rapidly,
Over 60,000 healthcare volunteers will be activated in New York alone to deal with the outbreak
Medical students have graduated fast track and are now assigned to active duty
Casualties are now stored in freezer trucks because hospitals cannot deal with the increase
People are lined up outside hospitals to get tested
The government has issued a USD 2 Trillion support package
Trump invokes the DPA on General Motors
etc etc

And all this happens with cities and countries on lockdown, with people in isolation, companies closed and streets deserted.
How does anything like this look like a bad flu outbreak to you?

Here you have the link to the latest comparative statistics:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Note that many of the other countries are 2 weeks or more ahead of the US.

It is absolutely unintelligible to propose the Covid situation is anything like the common flu, or we should respond as if it is.

Only because you lack the ability for critical thinking.

You say unintelligible, but the very folks who have the credentials and study to make these determinations are seeing things the way Jaime and I have proposed based upon the numbers here for weeks.

Listen to Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, MD, PhD

His credentials:

*Senior Fellow by Courtesy at the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies
*Professor of Medicine
*Senior Fellow at the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research
*Professor by Courtesy of Economics
*Director of the Program on Medical Outcomes
*Director of the Center on the Demography and Economics of Health and Aging
*Core faculty member at the Center for Health Policy and the Center for Primary Care and Outcomes Research

https://youtu.be/-LjHam9NtzA

Another article by Eran Bendavid and Jay Bhattacharya, both from Stanford:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-11585088464
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 15:55:59
Two professors of medicine at Stanford University published an opinion article Tuesday in the Wall Street Journal, suggesting there is little evidence that the coronavirus would kill millions of people without shelter-in-place orders and quarantines.

“Fear of Covid-19 is based on its high estimated case fatality rate—2% to 4% of people with confirmed Covid-19 have died, according to the World Health Organization and others,” the article, headlined "Is the Coronavirus as Deadly as They Say?" and written by Dr. Eran Bendavid and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, reads. “So if 100 million Americans ultimately get the disease, two million to four million could die. We believe that estimate is deeply flawed. The true fatality rate is the portion of those infected who die, not the deaths from identified positive cases.”


Read the rest here:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/is-the-coronavirus-as-deadly-as-they-say-professors-claim-more-data-needed-to-know-mortality-rate

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 17:19:06
Thanks TC. It’s amazing that the flawed numbers in the beginning were “gospel” and now better numbers with better data is dismissed. Originally it was oredicted that the UK could have 500,000 deaths, now with better data it is radically revised down to 20,000. Yet this whole thing is still the end of the world with some people. Why is that? As with any war, shouldn’t we pivot strategies once we have updated data or just continue with what we knew initially? The number of infections will increase per the bell curve. The number of deaths will be dictated by the calculated death rate as more and more data from testing is analyzed. It seems the country and the world with the help of the media has turned a deaf ear to what the new better data is saying.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Rella on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 18:50:07
Thanks TC. It’s amazing that the flawed numbers in the beginning were “gospel” and now better numbers with better data is dismissed. Originally it was oredicted that the UK could have 500,000 deaths, now with better data it is radically revised down to 20,000. Yet this whole thing is still the end of the world with some people. Why is that? As with any war, shouldn’t we pivot strategies once we have updated data or just continue with what we knew initially?

" Yet this whole thing is still the end of the world with some people. Why is that? "

I see a few schools of thought on this.

#1. The unknown. With what they are touting on TV from the so called experts make people believe that
there is imminent danger to all.

#2. Your churches. They are equally to blame with their cautionary emails being sent out to all the parishioners . My Baptist friend is more then ever commenting on things about this and trying to relate
this and what it means to those who are Christians and the rest of the world. Acatholic friend is inundating me with texts and emails about al things Catholic and links to watch masses and Pope Frankie's message
yesterday... I think it was yesterday... as if she is on a mission to convert me..... IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN.

#3. Trumps daily briefing with Fauci and Birx. I understand the necessity in this war, but people do not hear any improvement.... especially with Cuomo at 11AM daily screaming he is not getting the 60K respirators he needs.

All we hear is about shortages in tests...shortages in hospital beds... shortages n respirators....
DT wanting the isolation to be over by Easter, but sending hospital ships to NYC and CA and sending
army corp of engineers and national guard to build all these pop up hospitals in NY in anticipation of this sucker exploding.....

To the average person.... it is nothing short of frightening..... To the average Christian they are wondering about the end.

#4. Allegheny county added in the past day (24 hour) 50 new positives. They had 186 and now 236.
While not a huge number it still is more then a 25% increase basically overnight.

Jaime... you have been correctly talking about the ration of deaths, and people testing positive v the total number of tests.... and the  need to test and find out how many there really are that are positive...

Well, here is an avenue I do not remember reading on GC... maybe you or someone suggested and I missed it(?)... velocity rate!
_______________________
3. Finally, as Mike Adams points out, the velocity rate must be understood. If we do not know the velocity rate, we do not know how fast it is spreading.CV-19 clearly spreads much faster than the flu, and not understanding this along with taking common sense preventative actions, means that many people are going to die that do not have to. Predictably, this will lead to more calls for longer and more complete quarantines and guarantee an absolute economic collapse from which there will be no return.

At the end of the day, it is diffiuclt to believe that the CDC's goals are connected to ending the CV-19 threat as quickly as possible. It strongly appears that the CDC is dedicated to spreading this virus. And this where we turn back to the politics of the issue. 

The continued spreading of the virus benefits Democrats because our ineffective mitigation efforts are crushing the economy. Fausi's contrived ignorance will lead to more deaths and calls for much longer confinements of the public. The effect on the economy will be catastrophic and this endangers Trump's re-election and places the future of the Republic and our civil liberties at risk.

This is the ultimate coup that does not involve the use of guns.

https://thecommonsenseshow.com/conspiracy-health-martial-law/faucis-research-fraud-endangers-every-life-america-and-will-lead-complete-collapse-economy
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 19:45:52
Yes, VELOCITY or the RATE of deaths per number of infections is exactly what we have been talking about. Early on, people were talking about the known bad cases or those hospitalized to the nuber of deaths. That presented an inflated rate or velocity and scared even the experts. That ain’t the metric to look at as we progress through pandemic. it is ALL of the infections as they relate relate to the number of deaths, known by large scale testing of blocks of the population. We all were mezmerized by the panic and some by the delicious spectre of Trump presiding over his own Chernerbyl only months away from his re-election bid.

NO AVZ, the Left did not plant the virus, but as always they never let a crisis go to waste.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 21:38:00
I will not be surprised if we find out that COVID-19 is really not all that much more lethal than influenza.

It's about as lethal as the "Spanish Flu" back in 1918.    I think will shake out to be between 1 and 2 percent.   Most influenza is about 0.1%

Quote
Right now we have [maybe] a handle on the number who have died, but we do not have a good handle on the actual numbers that have contracted the virus.

And that's a good point.   During flu season, we don't get the numbers of people who get infected, but don't get sick enough to go to a doctor.    The mortality rate is actually the rate per 100 people sick enough to seek medical attention.    COVID-19 is like that.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 21:47:10
The death rate adjusted for the number of true positives is still in inline with a bad flu outbreak.

Closest to the Spanish Flu at the end of WWI.   

Seasonal flu
    Mortality rate: 0.1%

2009 H1N1
Mortality rate: 0.02%

1918 flu pandemic
    Mortality rate: 2.5%

The first estimate of the mortality rate for COVID-19 was roughly 2.3%, according to the WHO. As the death tally rose across the globe, so did the mortality rate, which the WHO revised on March 3 to 3.4%, meaning 3.4% of the population with confirmed infections died. Many scientists think, or are at least hopeful, that the mortality rate will fall as more people are tested and mild cases that have previously gone undetected are identified.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-may-be-deadlier-than-1918-flu-heres-how-it-stacks-up-to-other-pandemics.html

Quote
As far as AVZ's assertion that the deaths may be less due to the shutdowns?  Possibly true.  Especially if the final death count is nowhere near a bad flu year due to the lack of actual total estimated infections.

The big deal is to avoid swamping medical facilities and rationing ventilators.   If that happens a lot of people will die who would otherwise have lived.  That's why precautions are so important; slowing down the spread saves lives.

 
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 21:49:36
The death rate is the deaths divided by the total number of infections. Determined by testing of large blocks of the population extrapolated out to the total population. Considering only the number of symptomatic cases inflated the initial death rates and scared the poop out of everybody, thinking we were talking about a 9 or 10 percent death rate.

Flattening the curve helps, but we don’t have to flatten the economy. We can handle this virus AND preserve a semblance of an economy, to the chagrin of some Democrats and some of the media. And Trump won’t have his Chernobyl. Will thousands likely die? Yes, as with any pandemic, tragically.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 21:52:08
So, you have placed our president in a NO WIN situation. I will not respond back very much on this thread, for I truly have very little desire to fight such battles, it takes us away for serving Christ in the manner in which we should serve him. I have always had a lot of respect for you, and still do, but it seems you have been sidetrack (for the moment I trust) from using your God-given talents. Just my two cent worth.

There will be plenty of time for blame to be assigned later.   Right now, we just need to slow down the number of new infections; that will save lives.    I think most Americans realize this.   Once Trump acknowledged the problem and agreed to make it a priority, his approval rate went up.   As it should have. 

Later, we can talk about what should have been done, or what shouldn't have been done.  Right now, we need to get this together.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 21:53:17
The death rate is the deaths divided by the total number of infections. Determined by testing of large blocks of the population extrapolated out to the total population. Considering only the number of symptomatic cases inflated the initial death rates and scared the poop out of everybody.

It's that way with influenza, too.   We only count the ones sick enough to seek attention.   Apples to apples.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:02:33
Yes initially before testing is deployed en mass. But NO the true death rate is deaths divided by total infections even including asymptomatic ones and very mild ones. The true death rate always goes down as the virus progresses because the numbers are better later and later because of wide spread testing and accounting for all infections that we can statistically account for. The initial death rates from China were off the chart because of what you described. Their number of deaths from the virus ceased the other day likely because everyone that was bad sick from the virus was probably taken out and shot.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:08:10
No, he didn't say that.

A lot of people think he did.   He's taken a hit for it.   If he didn't mean it, a clarification would be a good thing.

Or as Patrick put it: "No one reached out to me and said, 'as a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for your children and grandchildren?'" He continued, "And if that's the exchange, I'm all in."

And he has it wrong about who's at risk:

Almost all warnings to younger people to take precautions have largely appealed to their altruism. As Jay Inslee, the Democratic governor of hard-hit Washington, so plainly put it, "going to the bar" might be tantamount to "killing your granddad."

These cautions have implied that younger people could pretty much ignore health advice as long as they kept away from older family members and friends, even though it turns out that nearly 40 percent of the 2,500 patients in the U.S. needing hospitalization over the past few weeks were ages 20 to 54. Thus encouraged, young adults have flouted the rules all around the world, congregating in bistros in Paris and pubs in London and on beaches in Florida.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/coronavirus-has-donald-trump-dan-patrick-ready-sacrifice-older-people-ncna1169126

And I get why he has it wrong.   If you don't look at the numbers, it's easy to think that it's mostly old people, as it is with influenza.  And while it was thought that children aren't at risk, that assumption turned out to be wrong, too.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/children.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fprepare%2Fchildren.html

Initially, it was assumed that children lacked the molecule on their cells that COVID-19 uses as an entry point.   Apparently, they do.

At any rate, Patrick's statement got him in trouble because it sounded callous.  If he's been misjudged, a clarification would help.  It's not just democrats who took offense.



Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:10:05
Yes initially before testing is deployed en mass. But NO the true death rate is deaths divided by total infections even including asymptomatic ones and very mild ones. The true death rate always goes down as the virus progresses because the numbers are better later and later because of wide spread testing and accounting for all infections that we can statistically account for. The initial death rates from China were off the chart because of what you described. Their number of deaths from the virus ceased the other day likely because everyone that was bad sick from the virus was probably taken out and shot.

Yes.   It's why I expect the true mortality rate to decline down to somewhere between 1 and 2 percent.   Still, that's over ten time the mortality rate for influenza, most years.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:11:21
At the mall, this Saturday afternoon around 3:00.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49709806397_f09e3503e7_b.jpg)
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:14:48
Barb, I’m sure it was a lot of the Establishment GOP too.

And the rate we think now is orders of magnitude lower than the initial estimate. That’s why the UK death projections went from 500,000 to 20,000. Might be close enough for Gummit work, but Holy garbanzo beans! This is NOT any longer a choice of destroying the economy or not, and still tens of thousands will die as in every pandemic.

And Dan Patrick exactly expressed my feelings that I had not been able to verbalize about the choice we have, or thought we had.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: The Barbarian on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:28:28
Barb, I’m sure it was all the Establishment GOP too.

And the rate we think now is orders of magnitude lower than the initial estimate.

The high estimates from epidemiologists were around 4%.    I have degree in bacteriology, so I've some notion of the mathematics of epidemics and this looks like it's going to shake out to a mortality rate of 1 to 2 percent.   Still a lot higher than the usual flu, albeit pretty close to the Spanish Flu of 1918.

Quote
This is NOT any longer a choice of destroying the economy or not and tens of thousands will die as in every pandemic.

Never was.  The economy is going to take a hit, of course.   But it's not going toss us into another depression.   And a lot of Americans are dead, and more are going to be dead, but it won't be millions of us.    Here's the issue:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49710869702_5c5d72db80_o.jpg)

We're still in the exponential phase of the epidemic, and we don't know how long that's going to last.   Could be weeks or months.   The sooner we can flatten that out and slow the number of people needing care at any one time, the fewer people will die in the long run.   It's just that simple.   I think it will be no sooner than six weeks before the inflection point.

The key is, social distancing, hand washing, and other steps to limit transmission of the virus will get us there sooner.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Jaime on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 22:33:13
With the death rates the “experts” were hanging their hat on, there wouldn’t be any curve flattening without killing the economy. But they can be 25x to 50x wrong and still have credence.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 23:26:32
It's about as lethal as the "Spanish Flu" back in 1918.    I think will shake out to be between 1 and 2 percent.   Most influenza is about 0.1%

And that's a good point.   During flu season, we don't get the numbers of people who get infected, but don't get sick enough to go to a doctor.    The mortality rate is actually the rate per 100 people sick enough to seek medical attention.    COVID-19 is like that.

It's gonna shake out to be about 0.13 percent in the US.  The CDC mortality rate for flu is the estimated number of infected vs actual deaths.

You are just repeating talking points. 
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 23:27:57
The high estimates from epidemiologists were around 4%.    I have degree in bacteriology, so I've some notion of the mathematics of epidemics and this looks like it's going to shake out to a mortality rate of 1 to 2 percent.   Still a lot higher than the usual flu, albeit pretty close to the Spanish Flu of 1918.

Never was.  The economy is going to take a hit, of course.   But it's not going toss us into another depression.   And a lot of Americans are dead, and more are going to be dead, but it won't be millions of us.    Here's the issue:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49710869702_5c5d72db80_o.jpg)

We're still in the exponential phase of the epidemic, and we don't know how long that's going to last.   Could be weeks or months.   The sooner we can flatten that out and slow the number of people needing care at any one time, the fewer people will die in the long run.   It's just that simple.   I think it will be no sooner than six weeks before the inflection point.

The key is, social distancing, hand washing, and other steps to limit transmission of the virus will get us there sooner.

You are good at googling and regurgitating talking points.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 23:29:49
Yes.   It's why I expect the true mortality rate to decline down to somewhere between 1 and 2 percent.   Still, that's over ten time the mortality rate for influenza, most years.

True death rate in the USA is going to be between 0.1% and 0.2%.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 23:31:48
There will be plenty of time for blame to be assigned later.   Right now, we just need to slow down the number of new infections; that will save lives.    I think most Americans realize this.   Once Trump acknowledged the problem and agreed to make it a priority, his approval rate went up.   As it should have. 

Later, we can talk about what should have been done, or what shouldn't have been done.  Right now, we need to get this together.

Basically what you are advocating is throwing crap against a wall and hoping it will stick.  And it will also hurt or potentially take lives.  Like the illegal immigrants who will not get help and have their cash livelihoods taken away by government intervation.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Texas Conservative on Sat Mar 28, 2020 - 23:43:33
Closest to the Spanish Flu at the end of WWI.   

Seasonal flu
    Mortality rate: 0.1%

2009 H1N1
Mortality rate: 0.02%

1918 flu pandemic
    Mortality rate: 2.5%

The first estimate of the mortality rate for COVID-19 was roughly 2.3%, according to the WHO. As the death tally rose across the globe, so did the mortality rate, which the WHO revised on March 3 to 3.4%, meaning 3.4% of the population with confirmed infections died. Many scientists think, or are at least hopeful, that the mortality rate will fall as more people are tested and mild cases that have previously gone undetected are identified.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-may-be-deadlier-than-1918-flu-heres-how-it-stacks-up-to-other-pandemics.html

The big deal is to avoid swamping medical facilities and rationing ventilators.   If that happens a lot of people will die who would otherwise have lived.  That's why precautions are so important; slowing down the spread saves lives.

Current estimated mortality rate in the USA is (2227*100)/(123,750*12) = 0.15%

A more recent publication posits that maybe the actual number of infections including untested and asymptomatic cases is closer to 1% of the population, which would make the final mortality rate much lower than an average flu year.  Regardless if it is this number, in the denominator, or mine, the fact is the true numbers will not be yours.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-proximitypoll/how-many-americans-have-coronavirus-new-reuters-poll-might-offer-a-hint-idUSKBN21D2XJ
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 01:15:11
Thanks TC. It’s amazing that the flawed numbers in the beginning were “gospel” and now better numbers with better data is dismissed. Originally it was oredicted that the UK could have 500,000 deaths, now with better data it is radically revised down to 20,000. Yet this whole thing is still the end of the world with some people. Why is that? As with any war, shouldn’t we pivot strategies once we have updated data or just continue with what we knew initially? The number of infections will increase per the bell curve. The number of deaths will be dictated by the calculated death rate as more and more data from testing is analyzed. It seems the country and the world with the help of the media has turned a deaf ear to what the new better data is saying.

The world should be very happy with the media attention.
Not so long ago your President labeled it a hoax, and a few weeks later he signed a DPA against GM.
If not for the media we would not have known the seriousness of Covid-19 and we would have been caught with our pants down.

All the numbers that are available at this moment come from countries that have taken draconian measurements to fight the spread of Covid-19
There are no numbers available of the actual R0 factor if the virus is allowed to roam freely, like what we do with for example influenza.

People keep comparing with influenza to make a point that Covid-19 is just like it. It is not!
All governments have taken action to curb the spread of Covid-19 and that is why we are looking at manageable numbers.

If in the end Covid-19 produces a death rate that is in the same order as influenza, that that is all thanks to early warnings and continuous pressure from the media, and people taking subsequent action to prepare for the worst.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: AVZ on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 02:44:19
And absolutely yes, there is a segment of our population rooting for a runaway virus AND a collapsed economy to get rid of Trump in November. The media is tingling with that anticipation as they foment the panic. We can successfully address the virus AND maintain an economy unless the panic mongers succeed.

I said it before and I say it again, the US is the only country that has politicized the outbreak of Covid-19.
Sure the Democrats will use this by any means possible to send Trump packing...the Republicans would do exactly the same if the present President would have been a Democrat.

I don't believe for a second that there are people in the US who root for a runaway virus, and I don believe at all that the media is conscientiously fermenting panic.
That's just the way you present it because it suits your purpose, and it is the result of the deep divide created in US society where the Republicans don't believe anything the Democrats say and vice versa.

Yes, you could address Covid-19 and the economy at the same time, but that can only happen most effectively if the two camps in politics and society can come together.
Right now, that's not happening and both sides are deficit.
It is often said that it takes a disaster to bring people together. Unfortunately Covid-19 only seems to widen the gap.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 05:09:11
Thanks TC. It’s amazing that the flawed numbers in the beginning were “gospel” and now better numbers with better data is dismissed. Originally it was oredicted that the UK could have 500,000 deaths, now with better data it is radically revised down to 20,000. Yet this whole thing is still the end of the world with some people. Why is that? As with any war, shouldn’t we pivot strategies once we have updated data or just continue with what we knew initially? The number of infections will increase per the bell curve. The number of deaths will be dictated by the calculated death rate as more and more data from testing is analyzed. It seems the country and the world with the help of the media has turned a deaf ear to what the new better data is saying.

The doctor -- Ferguson -- who came up with the original dire estimate, and then revised it down by a factor of 25, a day or so after publishing the revision issued a "clarification" suggesting the downward revision was *because of* the success of the mitigation efforts undertaken in the UK -- even though that idea was not apparent in the message announcing the downward revision.  Naturally, this makes one wonder if they "got to him," as the saying goes.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 06:13:43
AVZ, our media has BEEN the problem. They sensed a Potential Chernobyl event for Trump. Never doubt that. And you don’t think the Dems, who have done nothing for three years but try to get rid of Trump would waste THIS crisis in followup with their silent coup attempts. All unsuccessful? Not a chance. Tell us where you live, maybe YOU live. Could your country’s media possibly be the media that reported China had no more  from the virus? As in your country is China. Do you insist on commenting on our country while refusing to tell us your country? Is that still the game here?

And the death rate has gone down BECAUSE testing has identified more cases making the denominator in the ration larger. Of course when you address a 1 alarm blaze as a 5 alarm blaze, it helps curtail the 1 alarm blaze. The pandemic is still going to kill tend of thousands of people. It would also have helped tremendously if YOUR country China had responded better and cooperated with the world better and faster.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 06:17:06
I agree Norrinradd, experts in pretty much every field are not as wrong as these have been on this. And THEY are the ones that KNOW well that testing is how to know a true death rate.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 06:26:15
Current estimated mortality rate in the USA is (2227*100)/(123,750*12) = 0.15%

A more recent publication posits that maybe the actual number of infections including untested and asymptomatic cases is closer to 1% of the population, which would make the final mortality rate much lower than an average flu year.  Regardless if it is this number, in the denominator, or mine, the fact is the true numbers will not be yours.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-proximitypoll/how-many-americans-have-coronavirus-new-reuters-poll-might-offer-a-hint-idUSKBN21D2XJ

We don't know the *actual* CFR for Kung Flu, regular flu, or any other respiratory illness.  The only way to get that would be to routinely test each and every person for each and every known respiratory illness multiple times per year, AND have some way to prove which one directly caused death in any case of fatality.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 06:30:44
Even if the Kung Flu proves to have a CFR roughly equal to typical "regular" flu, there is still the issue of long-term -- possibly permanent -- lung damage to survivors of severe cases.  The Kung Flu apparently tends to produce some kind of hardening or "fibrosis" of lung tissue in many (most?  all?) cases severe enough to require hospitalization.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 06:43:33
I haven’t heard much on the long term affects. I found this article.

 https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/coronavirus-long-term-effects/story%3fid=69811566 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/coronavirus-long-term-effects/story%3fid=69811566)
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 07:40:57
Closest to the Spanish Flu at the end of WWI.   

Seasonal flu
    Mortality rate: 0.1%

2009 H1N1
Mortality rate: 0.02%

1918 flu pandemic
    Mortality rate: 2.5%

The first estimate of the mortality rate for COVID-19 was roughly 2.3%, according to the WHO. As the death tally rose across the globe, so did the mortality rate, which the WHO revised on March 3 to 3.4%, meaning 3.4% of the population with confirmed infections died. Many scientists think, or are at least hopeful, that the mortality rate will fall as more people are tested and mild cases that have previously gone undetected are identified.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/26/coronavirus-may-be-deadlier-than-1918-flu-heres-how-it-stacks-up-to-other-pandemics.html

The big deal is to avoid swamping medical facilities and rationing ventilators.   If that happens a lot of people will die who would otherwise have lived.  That's why precautions are so important; slowing down the spread saves lives.

The Spanish flu lasted a long time.

According to this Wiki article they post info from January 1918 to December 1920.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

My maternal grandmother (birth mom) died from it in 1921, when my mom was 3 years old.

I hate to admit I have forgotten her birth date ( she died when I was 17)  but it was Feb or March of 1918. So it had to have extended into winter of 1921. But she always said her mom died when she was 3.

God forbid this one lasts so long.... Of course, back then they had no known meds to treat it either and knew little what to do
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 08:16:17
The world should be very happy with the media attention.




Nah, they're fanning the flames of hysteria and flat out lying - causing people to believe lies and feeling hopeless and full of despair. Within the last week my area has had two boys under the age of 15 commit suicide. We were already in an adolescent suicide epidemic, but I can't help but wonder of the doomsday hysteria won't push some people over the brink. So maybe people should start tempering their hysterical doomsday scenarios.



Quote
Not so long ago your President labeled it a hoax

Labeled what a hoax? The virus? Even our liberal fact checking sites have debunked that - so you need to stop spreading lies.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 08:17:48
The Spanish flu lasted a long time.

According to this Wiki article they post info from January 1918 to December 1920.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

My maternal grandmother (birth mom) died from it in 1921, when my mom was 3 years old.

I hate to admit I have forgotten her birth date ( she died when I was 17)  but it was Feb or March of 1918. So it had to have extended into winter of 1921. But she always said her mom died when she was 3.

God forbid this one lasts so long.... Of course, back then they had no known meds to treat it either and knew little what to do

That's very sad.
Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: mommydi on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 09:12:56
I said it before and I say it again, the US is the only country that has politicized the outbreak of Covid-19.



Just keep repeating your lies, AVZ, and then those lies become truth, eh?

Sweden is claiming to be the only European country not politicizing coronavirus. Interesting.

If Italy isn't politicizing this, why is President Mattarella telling the opposition parties to stop with the political attacks on the authorities for their handling of coronavirus?

http://theconversation.com/italys-darkest-hour-how-coronavirus-became-a-very-political-problem-133178

AVZ, you've politicized the coronavirus more than any of us. Fact.

Now, cool it with your shameful lies.

Title: Re: There has never been a disease justifying mass isolation
Post by: Rella on Sun Mar 29, 2020 - 11:43:09
so you need to stop spreading lies.

Nah, he hatred the US and what we stand for and just wants to advance the cause of his and their surrounding countries.

Watch the rhetoric change if we get a Bernie type in office.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 02:46:44
Well it's a bit overdue here in the UK - but greedy panic-buyers may be beginning to realize their folly.  Our BBC Breakfast program showed pics of piles of discarded  and untouched food that had all gone past it's best BB date, and been put out for waste collection!  While some of us, more sensible but worried, shoppers, are struggling to get in "necessaries"  from almost empty supermarket shelves, to get us over one or maybe two weeks before the next food shopping expedition!


 It was reported that one "checkout clerk" had a customer whose food bill came to over £900 - that indicates crazy greed - unless of course he had a very large family to feed.  By comparison, for my wife and self, our bill normally comes to about  £70 to last us for 2 weeks.  There's something very wrong when shoppers are queing up with a long line of trolleys before the shops open - and there is now a long wait while only a few are allowed in at any one time!  There has to be a better way of doing things, especially as they reckon the virus problem could go on for another 6 months or more.  I still reckon a "one basket only" policy rather than trolleys piled high, is the answer - and just edge it along the floor with a foot when it gets heavy - although that may not be very practical for those with many mouths to feed!  Could ration books be the answer? - "Have we got enough coupons for another pack of 4 loo rolls???"


  Then we have the problem of doctors and key hospital workers catching it, while caring for patients - we've already lost 2 doctors from the virus, there may be many more!


 On 28th March , our Daily Mail had an article by Jeff Wise (coming from New York Intelligencer/Vox Media, and distributed by Tribune Content Agency) giving a harrowing account of the casual acquisition of the virus, right through to the wretched end of "existing" on a ventilator, gasping for air, until other organs shut down and death occurred.   One would need to be very thick-skinned and moronic to discount the possible ravage of the virus.  It certainly is very much worse than any "flu" we've experienced in recent years.  The article certainly gave me the "Heeby-Jeebies"!!!  Am just starting my yearly problem with hay-fever - but the daily "Ceterizine" pill suppresses the immune system - and that's counter to the current need to fight the virus!


 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 04:48:50
Has that life savior boat that was seen in the vision got a name?

UNSN Mercy , comfort

Well we all need that right now
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 05:05:58
Count me as "thick-skinned and moronic."  Wise-guy's account was SO over-the-top that it was actually funny -- not unlike the violence in, e.g., "Kingsman -- The Secret Service."
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 07:04:51
Perhaps until June.....????????????????

Here are some notable highlights from the link  ::tippinghat::

Everyone in the United States must avoid nonessential travel or gathering in groups of more than 10 for at least another month, and perhaps until June, the president said on Sunday. He had earlier expressed a desire to relax the coronavirus guidelines and get the country back to work by Easter, April 12.

Mr. Trump’s announcement came after two of the top doctors advising him warned that as many as 200,000 people in America could die during the outbreak.

The first of 22 scheduled flights carrying medical supplies from China arrived in New York on Sunday. White House officials said the flights would funnel much-needed goods across the U.S.

Amid calls for more transparency in the U.S., public health experts are debating how much information on the spread of the virus should be released.


????????? UMMMM  ::headscratch::public health experts are debating how much information on the spread of the virus should be released. 

 ::doh:: ::frown:: ::frustrated:: Nearly a dozen students at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., have developed symptoms of Covid-19. The school’s president, Jerry Falwell Jr., reopened its campus last week after calling the response to the pandemic an “overreaction.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/briefing/coronavirus-new-york-china.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_dk_20200330&instance_id=17179&nl=morning-briefing&regi_id=104584458&segment_id=23277&te=1&user_id=8e4d89eb70e9531c1be6705c0137fd8c
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Alan on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 07:20:56


 ::doh:: ::frown:: ::frustrated:: Nearly a dozen students at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va., have developed symptoms of Covid-19. The school’s president, Jerry Falwell Jr., reopened its campus last week after calling the response to the pandemic an “overreaction.”



That's the kind of attitude and response that will get a lot of innocent people killed.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 19:25:24
The founder of My Pillow, Mike Lindell, has retooled his pillow factory and is churning out 50k N95 face masks per day.

The left and MSM are mocking him for it. All over social media, they're laughing at and mocking Mike Lindell's efforts to make these masks.

I knew the left hated America, but I had no idea how much until now. I weep for these people with so much hate in their hearts that they laugh and mock people who are trying to save lives.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 19:43:49
Shhhhh, don’t tell them that this kind of behavior will expedite Trump’s re-election. Even if they can’t help themselves!
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 20:39:22
The founder of My Pillow, Mike Lindell, has retooled his pillow factory and is churning out 50k N95 face masks per day.

The left and MSM are mocking him for it. All over social media, they're laughing at and mocking Mike Lindell's efforts to make these masks.

I knew the left hated America, but I had no idea how much until now. I weep for these people with so much hate in their hearts that they laugh and mock people who are trying to save lives.

Did you hear POTUS and then the heads of the companies that are stepping up to help at dinnertime today?

Mike Lindell spoke...and the others,who I never heard of all were telling about what their factories have been able to be converted to make from the masks to protective clothing.

I was very proud of all of them.

The left is pure evil.



Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 20:54:19
Did you hear POTUS and then the heads of the companies that are stepping up to help at dinnertime today?

Mike Lindell spoke...and the others,who I never heard of all were telling about what their factories have been able to be converted to make from the masks to protective clothing.

I was very proud of all of them.

The left is pure evil.

Yes, they are.
Mr. Lindell asked that people use this time at home to get back into their Bibles and build their relationships with their families.
So he's supplying items needed to save lives and encouraging Bible study.

For this, Democrats are dropping F-bombs all over social media.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Jaime on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 21:56:09
If they ever started acting normal, we would be in trouble.

Keep Democrats Weird!  ::clappingoverhead::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 22:03:54
Looks like Michigan schools may have an executive order here this week ending the school year as far as meeting in buildings go, and that some kind of mishmash of online learning will be happening. 

I'll have to look into some homeschooling outfits to see what might be best to supplement my kids learning until next school year.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 22:35:54
The founder of My Pillow, Mike Lindell, has retooled his pillow factory and is churning out 50k N95 face masks per day.

The left and MSM are mocking him for it. All over social media, they're laughing at and mocking Mike Lindell's efforts to make these masks.

I knew the left hated America, but I had no idea how much until now. I weep for these people with so much hate in their hearts that they laugh and mock people who are trying to save lives.
that is because they need to sleep on information because it slowly goes in. Explains masks and materials and why any masks are better than none.

https://youtu.be/2w9M6K9vSUM
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Mon Mar 30, 2020 - 22:46:54
Also looks a bit like 1918 flu . They had masks on and outside tents as well. https://youtu.be/i6Gy9nPAQE0

Also China was arresting and dragging people away who didn’t comply to wearing masks out in public. They knew what was needed  and what measures Had to be done . One guy was dragged to a post and they tied a bra cup to his face from near by washing line. We haven’t learnt by simple observation . That’s because there is not enough PPE to go around. They know.....that’s why they are ramping  it up so fast. No N 95 masks use anything as it’s better than nothing if you have to go outside. Best bet stay inside and away until they supply them and get a vaccine or herd immunity in 1-2 years time.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Dave_UK on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 03:36:32
....
  Then we have the problem of doctors and key hospital workers catching it, while caring for patients - we've already lost 2 doctors from the virus, there may be many more!

 On 28th March , our Daily Mail had an article by Jeff Wise (coming from New York Intelligencer/Vox Media, and distributed by Tribune Content Agency) giving a harrowing account of the casual acquisition of the virus, right through to the wretched end of "existing" on a ventilator, gasping for air, until other organs shut down and death occurred.   One would need to be very thick-skinned and moronic to discount the possible ravage of the virus.  It certainly is very much worse than any "flu" we've experienced in recent years.  The article certainly gave me the "Heeby-Jeebies"!!!

  We have already lost two badly needed doctors to the virus, while tending virus patients in ICUs in the UK.  Key-workers are having trouble getting adequate  PPE  (Personal Protection Equipment).  A film from a Wuhan hospital showed a doctor finishing her shift in what looked like a "spacemans garb", she was soaked in sweat.

In the "reader's letters" part of our newspaper was a striking comment which included an email from the writer's daughter, a consultant in a London hospital : -

"The reality of this was tougher than I thought emotionally.  We've had 40 intubated patients in the ICU and theatre recovery area.
   No PPE left and waiting for new supplies still to come.We have no fit-tested masks or face shields to protect us while treating patients. We are buying tape from eBay and making face shields ourselves.

  Several anaesthetists are off with symptoms or are isolating due to a family member with symptoms, so the workload is more intense for those able to come in.
   We don't have enough ventilators so have to overspill into operating theatres.  We are desperately trying to source more from anywhere we can.

   There is the constant worry when the pandemic peaks, we won't be able to treat a patient because we won't have  the machine that we need to keep them alive.

  Two of our staff were attacked leaving work, by people wanting their badges, presumably to have the freedom to travel and to be able to shop at times reserved for priority workers.

   Leaving work  late, I went to the supermarket,  but the shelves had been stripped.  I couldn't even get milk or loo roll, so have to go without.  Back home. I'm suddenly on the verge of tears.  I can't see my family or have a hug from anyone."



Our daughter managing a Pharmacy hub, with clients spread across 2 counties, recently received a "directive" that asks her to get in more supplies of morphine based sedatives etc,.   They are obviously expecting things to worsen.  In an ICU as a patient becomes more physically distressed in gasping for air with "saturated" lungs - a morphine-induced coma may be the only kind treatment that can be given to those approaching "the end of the road"!

I wonder what % of virus-infected ICU patients, breathing via a ventilators, improve and recover???
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 05:01:26
...
I wonder what % of virus-infected ICU patients, breathing via a ventilators, improve and recover???

Tons of interesting graphs and charts and sets of data online, but some of the most interesting, and probably most important, is much less accessible.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 08:10:15
Also looks a bit like 1918 flu . They had masks on and outside tents as well. https://youtu.be/i6Gy9nPAQE0

Also China was arresting and dragging people away who didn’t comply to wearing masks out in public. They knew what was needed  and what measures Had to be done . One guy was dragged to a post and they tied a bra cup to his face from near by washing line. We haven’t learnt by simple observation . That’s because there is not enough PPE to go around. They know.....that’s why they are ramping  it up so fast. No N 95 masks use anything as it’s better than nothing if you have to go outside. Best bet stay inside and away until they supply them and get a vaccine or herd immunity in 1-2 years time.

I wear a surgical mask when I am out. Even when in the car going through drive throughs.

I am the ONLY on...

Oops I lie... There was one oriental with one of those n95s with another that had no maske in Walgreen the other day.

He had it pulled below his nose.

I do reuse mine. I will air it well, outside of the house... to allow the germs to hopefully die....

No idea why hospital people dont have an area that they can do this also... and wait 3 days before reusing?
Same with protective clothing.

I heard ultra violet light kills it.

Why not a room they set up with ultra violet light to hand the used PPE stuff in for a couple of days and then reuse it.  That way they would not be running out like they are when they are throwing it away.

1-2 years of staying inside will cripple the world. We likely then will wish we had let it get to us

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 08:15:25
PA update:

Another 700 positive cases in a day. We are averaging 500 or more each day now.

POTUS has declared PA state of emergency. That is an increase of stuff over the national emergency he declared.

Governor yesterday said all school will remain closed Indefinitely.

Governor said yesterday all non essential businesses to remain closed indefinitely.

Does that mean no primary? We move it from April to June.
Does that mean if we have no primary they still will have the conventions?
Does that mean if no conventions we will be in question of November even happens?  rofl

Works for me to keep Potus in there longer......




Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 08:44:52
I wear a surgical mask when I am out. Even when in the car going through drive throughs.

I am the ONLY on...

Oops I lie... There was one oriental with one of those n95s with another that had no maske in Walgreen the other day.

He had it pulled below his nose.

I do reuse mine. I will air it well, outside of the house... to allow the germs to hopefully die....

No idea why hospital people dont have an area that they can do this also... and wait 3 days before reusing?
Same with protective clothing.

I heard ultra violet light kills it.

Why not a room they set up with ultra violet light to hand the used PPE stuff in for a couple of days and then reuse it.  That way they would not be running out like they are when they are throwing it away.

1-2 years of staying inside will cripple the world. We likely then will wish we had let it get to us

I am not scared or concerned by this virus for myself.  I am not wearing a mask out.  I am not wearing gloves.  I am not wearing a bubble.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 08:57:28
I am not scared or concerned by this virus for myself.  I am not wearing a mask out.  I am not wearing gloves.  I am not wearing a bubble.

As I understand it, wearing a mask is about protecting others from the one wearing the mask. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:01:25
As I understand it, wearing a mask is about protecting others from the one wearing the mask.

I think most people wear it for the reverse reasons.  If I am not within six feet of another person, it isn't an issue in the first place.  Not to mention depending on how the mask is worn, it may provide no protection.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:12:47
I think most people wear it for the reverse reasons.  If I am not within six feet of another person, it isn't an issue in the first place.  Not to mention depending on how the mask is worn, it may provide no protection.

I agree that many are trying to protect themselves, and the mask does offer protection from inhaling the virus, but it is only a small part.  And although there is a consensus on six feet, in an enclosed space, the virus may be floating around briefly and easily able to contaminate across the six foot perimeter.  Not saying it doesn't help, but certainly not foolproof.

As for your lack of concern for yourself, you have little people that depend on you and love you very much, be safe TC.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:15:47
Whatever happens to me is in God's hands.  I am not going out looking for it.  Just not putting myself in a hazmat suit either.

This is a song I am pretty sure mommydi likes, that I think applies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc
Title: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:19:49
Wuhan Residents Dismiss Official Coronavirus Death Toll: ‘The Incinerators Have Been Working Around the Clock’

Wuhan residents are increasingly skeptical of the Chinese Communist Party’s reported coronavirus death count of approximately 2,500 deaths in the city to date, with most people believing the actual number is at least 40,000.

“Maybe the authorities are gradually releasing the real figures, intentionally or unintentionally, so that people will gradually come to accept the reality,” a Wuhan resident, who gave only his surname Mao, told Radio Free Asia.

A city source added that, based on the aggregation of funeral and cremation numbers, authorities likely know the real number and are keeping it under wraps.

“Every funeral home reports data on cremations directly to the authorities twice daily,” the source said. “This means that each funeral home only knows how many cremations it has conducted, but not the situation at the other funeral homes.”

The city began lifting its lockdown on Saturday after two months of mandatory shutdown, with a complete lift of restrictions set for April 8. Funeral homes in Wuhan have been handing out the cremated remains to families every day, but rumors began circulating after one funeral home received two shipments of 5,000 urns over the course of two days, according to photos reported by Chinese media outlet Caixin, which were later censored.


Read the rest here:

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/wuhan-residents-dismiss-official-coronavirus-death-toll-the-incinerators-have-been-working-around-the-clock/
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:22:27
Also looks a bit like 1918 flu . They had masks on and outside tents as well. https://youtu.be/i6Gy9nPAQE0

Also China was arresting and dragging people away who didn’t comply to wearing masks out in public. They knew what was needed  and what measures Had to be done . One guy was dragged to a post and they tied a bra cup to his face from near by washing line. We haven’t learnt by simple observation . That’s because there is not enough PPE to go around. They know.....that’s why they are ramping  it up so fast. No N 95 masks use anything as it’s better than nothing if you have to go outside. Best bet stay inside and away until they supply them and get a vaccine or herd immunity in 1-2 years time.

The knew so well that they are lying about the numbers of deaths?
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:25:31
... I am not wearing a mask out.  I am not wearing gloves.  I am not wearing a bubble.
Same. I went to the grocery store yesterday to pick up some things for my parents  - toilet paper back in stock, but now people are hoarding flour - which was the main item my mom needed.

Even though I'm not wearing a mask or gloves in public, I'm being very cautious in other ways.

I take my own clorox wipes and wipe down the handle of the shopping cart and use on the touch pad at the check out.

When arriving at home:
Left my shoes in the garage.
Threw my clothes in the washer.
Sprayed saline nasal spray up my nose.
Took a shower - including washing my hair.
Took some vit C.

BTW, not advising against wearing masks, but people need to understand that wearing a mask decreases your blood oxygen saturation and also spikes your pulse - so keep that in mind.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l2Sq7Ylk0KG6yVx9S/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:36:29
Whatever happens to me is in God's hands.  I am not going out looking for it.  Just not putting myself in a hazmat suit either.

This is a song I am pretty sure mommydi likes, that I think applies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc

Too long for current consumption, maybe take a look at it tonight, I think I got the gist of it though.

I understand where you are coming from, but was hoping for a better answer than "I am not going out looking for it." (Actively looking for it is not necessary, it is looking for you)  What I need to hear is "I will be careful"  and until then, you can post whatever you want it makes no difference. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 09:40:11
Same. I went to the grocery store yesterday to pick up some things for my parents  - toilet paper back in stock, but now people are hoarding flour - which was the main item my mom needed.

Even though I'm not wearing a mask or gloves in public, I'm being very cautious in other ways.

I take my own clorox wipes and wipe down the handle of the shopping cart and use on the touch pad at the check out.

When arriving at home:
Left my shoes in the garage.
Threw my clothes in the washer.
Sprayed saline nasal spray up my nose.
Took a shower - including washing my hair.
Took some vit C.

BTW, not advising against wearing masks, but people need to understand that wearing a mask decreases your blood oxygen saturation and also spikes your pulse - so keep that in mind.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l2Sq7Ylk0KG6yVx9S/giphy.gif)

Excellent example to others, and I dig the look back at SNL's heyday,  thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 10:03:51
By not looking for it, I am meaning I am not leaving my home unless it's necessary.  Like getting milk.

But as far as being clean, I live more rural than most here.  I have two dogs, and the younger one is a springer.  Just yesterday I had to help my son get the dog to come out of the dirty marsh as we was trying to get some ducks.  And with the rain, even the non marshy area is muddy.

Until it dries, I am giving up.  I wash my hands more now than usually, but that's about it.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 10:06:47
Excellent example to others, and I dig the look back at SNL's heyday,  thanks for sharing.

Thanks, Carey. Lately, more than ever, I miss the 70s.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 10:07:58
Whatever happens to me is in God's hands.  I am not going out looking for it.  Just not putting myself in a hazmat suit either.

This is a song I am pretty sure mommydi likes, that I think applies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZbKHDPPrrc

And - you're right.  ::smile::
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 10:10:53
By not looking for it, I am meaning I am not leaving my home unless it's necessary.  Like getting milk.

But as far as being clean, I live more rural than most here.  I have two dogs, and the younger one is a springer.  Just yesterday I had to help my son get the dog to come out of the dirty marsh as we was trying to get some ducks.  And with the rain, even the non marshy area is muddy.

Until it dries, I am giving up.  I wash my hands more now than usually, but that's about it.

 rofl

I knew you couldn't do it.  "I just need to hear you say you are being careful".  But going to take your comments above as saying the same thing.

Cheers TC, stay safe, prayers for you and your loved ones.
Carey.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus - 40,000 deaths?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 11:19:51
Bump. 
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 12:30:10
That is a lot of people.

And not surprising.

I simply do not trust them to be truthful about anything.

But they have ample supply of toilet paper.... Ebay can attest to that
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: jmldn2 on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 14:35:04
I trust nothing China says.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 16:19:20
I am not scared or concerned by this virus for myself.  I am not wearing a mask out.  I am not wearing gloves.  I am not wearing a bubble.


Poopsie ~I'm not worried you will get it either  rofl

Hmmmm  ::pondering::... bubble  GREAT IDEA!!!

  ::disco:: I'll  send a pic when my face shield arrives.... gonna be awhile yet.

You need to be aware you could carry it to your kids... and yes, now the young are getting it and also dying....  ::tippinghat::

You do what is comfortable for you and I will for me.

The mask and glasses stop me from touching my face.Bad habit when the wind blows my hair

Now... remember this. Unless you are prepared to always be able to drop the exact money into a hand or on a counter or just tell them to keep the change... you better do something cause you do not know where
the change they hand you back has been.

Someone positive,yet not tested yet, coughing into their hand then paying a bill.... think about it.

Toodles


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 16:34:57
I wear a surgical mask when I am out. Even when in the car going through drive throughs.

I am the ONLY on...

Oops I lie... There was one oriental with one of those n95s with another that had no maske in Walgreen the other day.

He had it pulled below his nose.

I do reuse mine. I will air it well, outside of the house... to allow the germs to hopefully die....

No idea why hospital people dont have an area that they can do this also... and wait 3 days before reusing?
Same with protective clothing.

I heard ultra violet light kills it.

Why not a room they set up with ultra violet light to hand the used PPE stuff in for a couple of days and then reuse it.  That way they would not be running out like they are when they are throwing it away.

1-2 years of staying inside will cripple the world. We likely then will wish we had let it get to us
Hi Rella the first video of the 2 at about 25min goes into how you can sterilize the masks. https://youtu.be/2w9M6K9vSUM

He also recommends 9 days in a sealed plastic bag. He also puts them out in direct sunlight

Don’t microwave as metal strip and no case studies yet? Use the oven method listed in the video
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 16:46:33
The knew so well that they are lying about the numbers of deaths?
yes they lied to us. When we see the numbers now happening around the world in other countries , it would just make sense now, that they would have had many more numbers than what they reported.


"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" (Sir Walter Scott, 1808).
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 16:55:53
In NZ they are following suit of saying test test test. If you have only one symptom. I’ve been on meds now. Antibiotics, steroids, and inhalers . Sucking on them 5-7 puffs at a time. Using them all through the day and night. I think I’m coming out the other side. Now I hear my Kid starting to bark like a dog. :( 

I didn’t get tested because I hadn’t traveled or had contact with someone with the 19.

Our Country was not and is not ready . It hit us like everyone to fast.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 17:04:09
The kid was choking on a string , cord from a hoodie. :)


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 17:04:30
In NZ they are following suit of saying test test test. If you have only one symptom. I’ve been on meds now. Antibiotics, steroids, and inhalers . Sucking on them 5-7 puffs at a time. Using them all through the day and night. I think I’m coming out the other side. Now I hear my Kid starting to bark like a dog. :( 

I didn’t get tested because I hadn’t traveled or had contact with someone with the 19.

Our Country was not and is not ready . It hit us like everyone to fast.

That you know of at least.  I am glad you think you are improving.  Get well.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 17:21:29
That you know of at least.  I am glad you think you are improving.  Get well.
Thank you TC . God Bless you and your family through this as well.
Title: What happens when we come out.
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 21:31:39
What happens when we come out?

In one month?

In two months?

In three months?

In four months?

In five months?

Whether we come out in a month or three months - the virus will still be there. All the experts say this virus is endemic. It's here to stay.

How long are you willing to stay home? A year? Three years? Indefinitely? What's your time limit on this? At what point would you say, "Forget it. I'm going on with my life no matter what happens." As TC mentioned today - when do you hit your personal que sera, sera turning point?









Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: The Barbarian on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 21:41:51
It's not to keep us from getting the virus.  That's probably going to happen to all of us.  It's to keep the new cases down to a level that won't overwhelm the medical care system.
Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 21:48:59
It's not to keep us from getting the virus.  That's probably going to happen to all of us.  It's to keep the new cases down to a level that won't overwhelm the medical care system.

I think a lot of people don't understand that.
Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: Texas Conservative on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 22:00:53
I think a lot of people don't understand that.

I think the stupidity on tv and the hysteria caused by the media and some of the politicians is inflating the load on the medical system.  And now we gotta stay home because under order and then have hospitals threaten to ration care because of said stupidity by government officials and mass hysteria caused by media.

All the while the pro-aborts continue on with their non-essential baby killing in defiance of state executive orders, while church pastors get arrested.

It is all beyond retarded.  Economic disaster and civil liberties being trashed.  Our nation jumped the shark this year.  R.I.P.
Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 22:34:12
I think the stupidity on tv and the hysteria caused by the media and some of the politicians is inflating the load on the medical system.  And now we gotta stay home because under order and then have hospitals threaten to ration care because of said stupidity by government officials and mass hysteria caused by media.

All the while the pro-aborts continue on with their non-essential baby killing in defiance of state executive orders, while church pastors get arrested.

It is all beyond retarded.  Economic disaster and civil liberties being trashed.  Our nation jumped the shark this year.  R.I.P.

+1





Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: mommydi on Tue Mar 31, 2020 - 23:10:24
Let's also remember, the governor of New York has released criminals into the streets over this - including multiple sex offenders and three child rapists.
Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 06:46:49
I think a lot of people don't understand that.

A couple of Pittsburgh nerds have addressed that. (https://medium.com/@wpegden/a-call-to-honesty-in-pandemic-modeling-5c156686a64b)

Summary: The data related to purpose and benefits of the current "mitigation" strategies are being presented in an incomplete and therefore misleading fashion. Proponents are not making clear that the current strategies are only delay tactics, will have NO ultimate benefit if viable treatments are not developed and enacted quickly, and could actually lead to WORSE ultimate outcomes if the peak is delayed too far.
Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 06:52:58
I think the stupidity on tv and the hysteria caused by the media and some of the politicians is inflating the load on the medical system.  And now we gotta stay home because under order and then have hospitals threaten to ration care because of said stupidity by government officials and mass hysteria caused by media.

All the while the pro-aborts continue on with their non-essential baby killing in defiance of state executive orders, while church pastors get arrested.

It is all beyond retarded.  Economic disaster and civil liberties being trashed.  Our nation jumped the shark this year.  R.I.P.

Let's also remember, the governor of New York has released criminals into the streets over this - including multiple sex offenders and three child rapists.

Yep.

Plagues, storms, earthquakes, economic collapse in progress, nascent mental health crisis, pastors being arrested for holding church services, funerals being disbanded by police, riots imminent, calling evil good and good evil...

Too bad I'm a Partial Preterist.  I have no reason to expect a quick escape.
Title: Re: What happens when we come out.
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 08:38:18
Yep.

Plagues, storms, earthquakes, economic collapse in progress, nascent mental health crisis, pastors being arrested for holding church services, funerals being disbanded by police, riots imminent, calling evil good and good evil...

Too bad I'm a Partial Preterist.  I have no reason to expect a quick escape.

 rofl  sorry was that inappropriate, cannot help it, that made me laugh, I am in the same boat as you.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 09:23:35
TC, am I to believe that the threat is exaggerated, or is it worse than we are being told, because you seem to be presenting conflicting arguments in other threads.  ???

 
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 11:06:59
TC, am I to believe that the threat is exaggerated, or is it worse than we are being told, because you seem to be presenting conflicting arguments in other threads.  ???

China's numbers are exaggerated.  I believe they have had 10 times plus the number of cases and tens of thousands of deaths.   I believe overall, due to lack of testing that COVID19 might be more infectious than bad flu years, but that the overall mortality rate is the same at about 0.13%.

We will still need to develop some herd immunity to this virus, and our current pandemic "flatten the curve" actions will not stop the ultimate spread of the virus to millions of people, because eventually we will lift the isolation orders and the disease will spread.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: The Barbarian on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 11:27:54
I don't doubt that China is hiding the true numbers.   When the Wuhan outbreak stated, the government initially called it a hoax. Only after the deaths mounted, did they respond in an effective way. 

It's what authoritarian states do.

Quote
We will still need to develop some herd immunity to this virus, and our current pandemic "flatten the curve" actions will not stop the ultimate spread of the virus to millions of people, because eventually we will lift the isolation orders and the disease will spread.

That's not what flattening the curve is for.    It's to assure we don't end up like Italy, deciding who is going to have to die, because we don't have ventilators for them.

Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Jaime on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 11:34:57
I think he is saying exactly what you are saying. Flattening the curve is to keep medical facilities from  being overwhelmed at one time. But the total number of cases will likely not be reduced, but stretched over a longer period of time. The reduction in number of cases and/or deaths will happen because of herd immunity as TC said, and yes WITH or WITHOUT the flattened curve.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: 4WD on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 12:17:53
Again, the CDC estimate for deaths in the US October 1, 2019 through March 21, 2020 is 24,000 to 63,000.  And yet we are wiping out the whole of the US economy because of the China virus.  The price we will all pay for this fiasco will be much greater that tens of thousands of deaths due to the virus.  A collapsed economy due to government shutdown will be much worse than the great depression of the 30s.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 12:21:43
China's numbers are exaggerated.  I believe they have had 10 times plus the number of cases and tens of thousands of deaths.   I believe overall, due to lack of testing that COVID19 might be more infectious than bad flu years, but that the overall mortality rate is the same at about 0.13%.

We will still need to develop some herd immunity to this virus, and our current pandemic "flatten the curve" actions will not stop the ultimate spread of the virus to millions of people, because eventually we will lift the isolation orders and the disease will spread.

I understand why we are flattening the curve, and understand that myself and my family are likely to be infected at some point.  Here thanks to the tireless efforts of my wife and her coworkers we now have 1000 beds empty and available here in Calgary, and by April 18th we should have another 1500 available.  Preparation takes time, and we are buying as much time as we can.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: NorrinRadd on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 14:01:09
Frankly, I'd rather they drop the "mitigation" strategy and take the 2 or 3 million deaths, than continue trampling the Bill of Rights.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Jaime on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 14:50:00
I heard a local doctor on the radio this morning say that the total number of deaths under a flattened curve will be virtually the same as the number of deaths under the normal Corona curve. I get the feeling that everyone who is sacrificing thinks somehow we are reducing the number of deaths. According to the doctor I heard, we will PEAK lower over a longer period of time, helping as everyone realizes to keep from overwhelming the hospitals. I “guess” the measures we are taking would accomplish that, but the same numbers are expected to  die over a longer period of time. Are we all on board for THAT? I didn’t think that was the end game in the beginning.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 14:55:05
Depends if you are old or have a underlying condition. Even a fish gulps out of water trying to stay alive.

Yep it’s test test test delay delay delay, until a vaccine ...18 mths away or herd immunity. That’s about 85% of the population that has it , and gotten over it. So the USA has 189,000 cases. Let me think. 330million - 189 thousand = watching Netflix 15 times over .

Imagine if we had a virus that killed all it affected?  Its only been a couple of weeks and everyone’s climbing the walls. Don’t worry , people will revolt against it and that’s when it starts to get nasty. Civil unrest.

Yes the 19 is a nasty one for sure , but not as nasty as someone’s desire to live .

Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 14:55:40
I heard a local doctor on the radio this morning say that the total number of deaths under a flattened curve will be virtually the same as the number of deaths under the normal Corona curve. I get the feeling that everyone who is sacrificing thinks somehow we are reducing the number of deaths. According to the doctor I heard, we will PEAK lower over a longer period of time, helping as everyone realizes to keep from overwhelming the hospitals. I “guess” the measures we are taking would accomplish that, but the same expected numbers are expected to  happen over a longer period of time. Are we all on board for THAT?

 ???

We are reducing the number of deaths, your local doctor is at odds with every other professional I have heard, and frankly he is at odds with common sense. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Bemark on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:02:10
Once people realize they have been chosen , if not this time , then maybe next, selected to die for the common good of mankind , so THE OTHERS can get there Starbucks coffee or there child a happy meal.

Wouldn’t the world be better off without  black people or white . Look at all the problems they bring. Its a slippery path to go down. Do we dare tread it?

Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:05:47
I heard a local doctor on the radio this morning say that the total number of deaths under a flattened curve will be virtually the same as the number of deaths under the normal Corona curve. I get the feeling that everyone who is sacrificing thinks somehow we are reducing the number of deaths. According to the doctor I heard, we will PEAK lower over a longer period of time, helping as everyone realizes to keep from overwhelming the hospitals. I “guess” the measures we are taking would accomplish that, but the same numbers are expected to  die over a longer period of time. Are we all on board for THAT? I did ‘t think that was the end game in the beginning.

The quarantine is to help spread out the time of infections on purpose to give the hospitals better time to prepare for the long haul.  The misleading part of everything you hear on the news and from politicians is that end of quarantine will not be the ends of infections or of deaths due to the disease. One curve is compressed and steep and the other is shorter in height and yet much longer in length along the X axis.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:07:33
Depends if you are old or have a underlying condition. Even a fish gulps out of water trying to stay alive.

Yep it’s test test test delay delay delay, until a vaccine ...18 mths away or herd immunity. That’s about 85% of the population that has it , and gotten over it. So the USA has 189,000 cases. Let me think. 330million - 189 thousand = watching Netflix 15 times over .

Imagine if we had a virus that killed all it affected?  Its only been a couple of weeks and everyone’s climbing the walls. Don’t worry , people will revolt against it and that’s when it starts to get nasty. Civil unrest.

Yes the 19 is a nasty one for sure , but not as nasty as someone’s desire to live .

I suspect a vaccine might be necessary to develop herd immunity.  I don't think we know enough about the virus yet to determine if herd immunity may be acquired naturally through infection.  There is hope, but folks talk about it like it is a sure thing. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:08:08
Frankly, I'd rather they drop the "mitigation" strategy and take the 2 or 3 million deaths, than continue trampling the Bill of Rights.

the 2 or 3 million deaths is absolute scare tactics.  And I find the trampling on the Constitution ridiculous and sad.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:09:53
I suspect a vaccine might be necessary to develop herd immunity.  I don't think we know enough about the virus yet to determine if herd immunity may be acquired naturally through infection.  There is hope, but folks talk about it like it is a sure thing.

Iceland has tested vast amounts of its population.  About 50% of those tested were positive and asymptomatic.  Herd immunity needs to happen through infection when the hospitals are ready.  And we can't wait 18 months for a vaccine or we might find we've lost much more people to starvation and suicide due to mental illness.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:13:14
Once people realize they have been chosen , if not this time , then maybe next, selected to die for the common good of mankind , so THE OTHERS can get there Starbucks coffee or there child a happy meal.

Wouldn’t the world be better off without  black people or white . Look at all the problems they bring. Its a slippery path to go down. Do we dare tread it?


 ::eatingpopcorn:
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:16:06
Iceland has tested vast amounts of its population.  About 50% of those tested were positive and asymptomatic.  Herd immunity needs to happen through infection when the hospitals are ready.  And we can't wait 18 months for a vaccine or we might find we've lost much more people to starvation and suicide due to mental illness.

Sorry, but I am not sure how that stat relates to developing herd immunity, could you please clarify?  Thanks.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:18:14
I suspect a vaccine might be necessary to develop herd immunity.  I don't think we know enough about the virus yet to determine if herd immunity may be acquired naturally through infection.  There is hope, but folks talk about it like it is a sure thing.
I'm wondering if we have already been developing herd immunity and continue to do so now - they're just not calling it that.

Just because most shops/stores are closed, doesn't mean no one is out there working and coming in contact with people.  My grandson's friends who have a lawn business just came by to mow. I went out for a little visit (kept my distance) and I asked the one who owns the business if he's losing customers. He said so far, he's not. Everyone is calling for their spring clean up and scalp. People in oil field related jobs are still working. Some men's ministry of some kind is building something behind my house. None of them have slowed down through this. They're out there today. Another one of my grandson's friends stopped by for a minute while we were all out in the front yard and said he's on his way to work. He's a welder. We have people crowding into grocery stores. There's still a large number of people here who are coming into contact with each other.


Officials are now saying corona has probably been here since January or earlier. I think herd immunity is probably already building.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:26:35
I was just chatting with my youngest daughter. She's in law school full time and has a job, too. She's doing all classes online now, and working from home. I just asked her if she had heard if any of her classmates or coworkers have been getting ill. She said - not a one. She also said, "Something went through here like a wildfire in February, that wasn't the flu, so we're thinking those of us who were so sick probably had it then."
They guys who just came by to mow - I asked them the same question. Only one of them knew someone who has corona. He said it's his sister's college roommate who picked it up on spring break. However all of them said they thought it went through here earlier because so many of them were sick with something like the flu but tested negative for flu.


Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: mommydi on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:33:17
Iceland has tested vast amounts of its population.  About 50% of those tested were positive and asymptomatic.  Herd immunity needs to happen through infection when the hospitals are ready.  And we can't wait 18 months for a vaccine or we might find we've lost much more people to starvation and suicide due to mental illness.

Agreed.
I just saw a young friend of mine on facebook trying to sell things to buy something for his daughter's birthday. He lost his job with the shutdown.
My parents are growing sadder - thinking they may have to spend their last couple of years confined inside their home.

This is going to start messing with people's heads big time - and soon.
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:34:12
I suspect a vaccine might be necessary to develop herd immunity.  I don't think we know enough about the virus yet to determine if herd immunity may be acquired naturally through infection.  There is hope, but folks talk about it like it is a sure thing.

Perhaps a vaccine, yes.

Perhaps acquired through infection, yes.

Or perhaps the desired effect would be a combination of both.

Infection weeding out the undesirables of the old, infirm, and compromised who will surly die once infected and then the miracle shot to save the rest of humanity.

It is a certainly we, as country, cannot sustain 12 to 18 months of house arrest before we implode economically.

Sooner or later someone will need to take the bull by the horns and make a decision.

I still think things will get better on Nov. 4.

Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:36:58
I'm wondering if we have already been developing herd immunity and continue to do so now - they're just not calling it that.

Just because most shops/stores are closed, doesn't mean no one is out there working and coming in contact with people.  My grandson's friends who have a lawn business just came by to mow. I went out for a little visit (kept my distance) and I asked the one who owns the business if he's losing customers. He said so far, he's not. Everyone is calling for their spring clean up and scalp. People in oil field related jobs are still working. Some men's ministry of some kind is building something behind my house. None of them have slowed down through this. They're out there today. Another one of my grandson's friends stopped by for a minute while we were all out in the front yard and said he's on his way to work. He's a welder. We have people crowding into grocery stores. There's still a large number of people here who are coming into contact with each other.


Officials are now saying corona has probably been here since January or earlier. I think herd immunity is probably already building.

 ::smile::  I hope so, I truly do.

Really the biggest impact on my economy has been the price of oil, and entertainment venues.  We are down to only essential businesses, but that list is pretty all inclusive, and those not on it have found ways to get around it, such as through internet sales.  My son works for Visions electronics, they are essential because people might need a computer.  They aren't selling many computers but they are selling a lot of big TV's.  rofl

What is most remarkable is my local hobby shop, they are one of my tenants, and I am one of their better customers.  They have been struggling for some time now, and with the new regulations on drones it has only been getting worse.  They have done more in sales in the last month than most of last year. 
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Rella on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:37:15
the 2 or 3 million deaths is absolute scare tactics.  And I find the trampling on the Constitution ridiculous and sad.

2or 3million is less then 1% of 325 million population.

Isn't that what they have been monitoring.  Would fall right in line then.

It will not be 2 or 3 million....
Title: Re: The Coronavirus: Concerned or not?
Post by: Carey on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:41:42
Agreed.
I just saw a young friend of mine on facebook trying to sell things to buy something for his daughter's birthday. He lost his job with the shutdown.
My parents are growing sadder - thinking they may have to spend their last couple of years confined inside their home.

This is going to start messing with people's heads big time - and soon.

It already has, I am certain many folks have already taken their lives because of this.  Suicides often go unreported by news media, and this is probably especially true during this crisis.
Title: Re: China's Coronavirus Numbers Are Bogus
Post by: Jaime on Wed Apr 01, 2020 - 15:44:37
Carey, the common sense of not overwhelming the hospitals is the only advantage. There would be more deaths to some degree with overwhelming the hospitals, but the number of projected deaths under each curve is pretty much equal. Again, is this what we signed on for? TC is saying the same thing as I am. Flattening the curve doesn’t necessarily translate into massively fewer dea