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Offline Dr.Richard

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Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 02:51:56 »
In Genesis 1:1-2  v 1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)
 v2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

The Bible said that God created Heaven and Earth, perfectly,then the heaven was alright, but the earth was chaotic. It is believed by Biblical Scholars that there had been a world like that of Adam that existed before the creation of Adam. So the creation of the world in Gen 1:3 is called the second creation. The first was marred, that was why the Bible said that the ''Earth was without Form and void''.
Do you believe that? What is your own opinion?

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Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 02:51:56 »

Offline Loner

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #1 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 04:22:53 »
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Cor 15:45
« Last Edit: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 04:36:18 by Loner »

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #1 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 04:22:53 »

Offline Beta

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #2 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 05:09:25 »
In Genesis 1:1-2  v 1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)
 v2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

The Bible said that God created Heaven and Earth, perfectly,then the heaven was alright, but the earth was chaotic. It is believed by Biblical Scholars that there had been a world like that of Adam that existed before the creation of Adam. So the creation of the world in Gen 1:3 is called the second creation. The first was marred, that was why the Bible said that the ''Earth was without Form and void''.
Do you believe that? What is your own opinion?
I think 'to delve into the realms of 'opinion and imagination is the quickest way to 'get lost.
There are not two Creations of this Earth - only One and as in everything God does it was 'very good. So how come we read in Gen.1 that the Earth was without form, void and dark ?
Yes it had existed (been created) prior to Gen.1 and something caused it to be 'marred. That was the 'rebellion of Lucifer.
In Gen.1 we see a ' Renewing' Ps.104v30, Thou sendeth forth thy Spirit (Gen.1v2) they are created ' and thou renewest the face of the earth.
So it was not a new creation because God got it wrong but a correcting of the damage Lucifer had caused.
No Human Being had been created prior to Gen.1 ; only the physical/material Universe.
« Last Edit: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 05:22:58 by Beta »

larry2

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #3 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 09:51:39 »
The Gap Theory is put forth to answer your question by many.

Gap of Time

WikipediA - Gap theorists generally assert that an indefinite span of time exists between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. The time span can be, and usually is, very large (Millions or Billions of years) encompassing the so-called “geologic ages.

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #3 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 09:51:39 »

Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 19:15:42 »
A lot of people share in this misunderstanding.

There is nothing in Genesis 1:1 that says that the heavens and earth that God is creating there were either perfect or fully complete.  Verse 2 actually indicates the precise opposite - they were a chaotic mess.

Then in verse 3 up to the end of the chapter, God goes about the work of FORMING what was chaotic into something orderly.

Genesis 1 is a chapter that reveals the character of God as one who gives FORM and ORDER to that which is chaotic, and who spends time working to make things into their ultimate shape, through long processes.

It is unfortunate that man has twisted the meaning to says that God is one who makes things POOF! in an instant, fully formed at the start.  Nothing could be farther from the message in the Bible, starting at Gen 1, and continuing through to the end.

He's still working on me...

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 19:15:42 »



Offline Kindle

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #5 on: Sat Sep 24, 2011 - 22:36:35 »

Some Scripture which may  relate to this:
Ezekiel 28;Jeremiah 4:23-2:7;Psalm 89:10 and in Job 26.  If you check out "Rahab" you'll enter into the New Age realm.   ::lightsabre:: The Bible itself does not identify who or what Rahab is, but it does seem to be related to a great destruction and a "void" Earth. I found this interesting since I saw a program some time back which discussed the moon's formation and how it might have resulted from the Earth being bashed by some sizeable object; and with the moon's formation itself taking some amount of time. This same theory holds that whatever hit Earth may have provided our water.   This is thought to have occured during the time of earth's formation period. But .... science could be wrong here.
The phrase "stones of fire"... hard to say what those are, but "something" certainly was cast out or down from a heavenly place; and was broken and scattered, according to the Scripture.

Offline Beta

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #6 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 04:47:44 »
A lot of people share in this misunderstanding.

There is nothing in Genesis 1:1 that says that the heavens and earth that God is creating there were either perfect or fully complete.  Verse 2 actually indicates the precise opposite - they were a chaotic mess.

Then in verse 3 up to the end of the chapter, God goes about the work of FORMING what was chaotic into something orderly.

Genesis 1 is a chapter that reveals the character of God as one who gives FORM and ORDER to that which is chaotic, and who spends time working to make things into their ultimate shape, through long processes.

It is unfortunate that man has twisted the meaning to says that God is one who makes things POOF! in an instant, fully formed at the start.  Nothing could be farther from the message in the Bible, starting at Gen 1, and continuing through to the end.

He's still working on me...
You are right about God not making things perfect to begin with or about taking his time.
But we do read Gen.1 how that everything he created was ' very good'.Now that could not describe a dark and chaotic world - by no means is that a 'very good  state.....since life could not exist on it.
So Creation was 'very good before it became spoilt. Isa.14 and Ezek.28 would give some explanation and why Lucifer turned Satan. God did not create him evil so there must have been a cause for what happened and the renewing of the earth Ps.104v30. Also Jesus said he saw Lucifer fall from heaven. God would not have cast him out for no reason - cast out on the earth Rev.12.
And for man to be aflicted with evil is also for a reason !

Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #7 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 10:12:24 »
A lot of people share in this misunderstanding.

There is nothing in Genesis 1:1 that says that the heavens and earth that God is creating there were either perfect or fully complete.  Verse 2 actually indicates the precise opposite - they were a chaotic mess.

Then in verse 3 up to the end of the chapter, God goes about the work of FORMING what was chaotic into something orderly.

Genesis 1 is a chapter that reveals the character of God as one who gives FORM and ORDER to that which is chaotic, and who spends time working to make things into their ultimate shape, through long processes.

It is unfortunate that man has twisted the meaning to says that God is one who makes things POOF! in an instant, fully formed at the start.  Nothing could be farther from the message in the Bible, starting at Gen 1, and continuing through to the end.

He's still working on me...
You are right about God not making things perfect to begin with or about taking his time.
But we do read Gen.1 how that everything he created was ' very good'.Now that could not describe a dark and chaotic world - by no means is that a 'very good  state.....since life could not exist on it.
So Creation was 'very good before it became spoilt. Isa.14 and Ezek.28 would give some explanation and why Lucifer turned Satan. God did not create him evil so there must have been a cause for what happened and the renewing of the earth Ps.104v30. Also Jesus said he saw Lucifer fall from heaven. God would not have cast him out for no reason - cast out on the earth Rev.12.
And for man to be aflicted with evil is also for a reason !
Checking the actual chapter...

Gen 1:10 KJV - And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

God repeatedly calls things "good" AFTER He has formed them.  Not before.  At the very end of the chapter, He rests, and calls everything VERY GOOD.

If things became spoiled, it didn't happen in verse 2.  It would have to be somewhere after the end of this chapter.  ::tippinghat::

Offline Beta

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #8 on: Sun Sep 25, 2011 - 13:42:30 »
Hi ,
I don't really have an answer. It just seems hard to believe this earth and all around it was in a 'chaotic mess as recently as 6000 years ago....don't you think ?
I'm sure we'll get to the truth one day.  ::pondering::

Offline Thorwald

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #9 on: Mon Sep 26, 2011 - 12:41:14 »
In Genesis 1:1-2  v 1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)
 v2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

The Bible said that God created Heaven and Earth, perfectly,then the heaven was alright, but the earth was chaotic. It is believed by Biblical Scholars that there had been a world like that of Adam that existed before the creation of Adam. So the creation of the world in Gen 1:3 is called the second creation. The first was marred, that was why the Bible said that the ''Earth was without Form and void''.
Do you believe that? What is your own opinion?

You are 're-creating' God's Word. God created the vegetation first, and then the 'animal kingdom'. It appears to me, that the Neanderthals, were simply the highest order of the animal kingdom (not in the 'image of God'). Eventually, God decided to create man, in His own image, and thus,.....here we are.  ::smile::

Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #10 on: Tue Sep 27, 2011 - 00:13:23 »
Hi ,
I don't really have an answer. It just seems hard to believe this earth and all around it was in a 'chaotic mess as recently as 6000 years ago....don't you think ?
I'm sure we'll get to the truth one day.  ::pondering::
Yep.  I think the timeframe is all mussed up.  I think it was a chaotic mess several millions of years ago.

Offline Beta

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #11 on: Tue Sep 27, 2011 - 06:34:13 »
Hi ,
I don't really have an answer. It just seems hard to believe this earth and all around it was in a 'chaotic mess as recently as 6000 years ago....don't you think ?
I'm sure we'll get to the truth one day.  ::pondering::
Yep.  I think the timeframe is all mussed up.  I think it was a chaotic mess several millions of years ago.

Agree , but  ::backontopic::   

There is no biblical record of 'Humans having existed before Adam in any shape or form.
Has Thorwald got a point ?  ::shrug::
Though Adam was created in the image of God he was originally only from the 'dust of the ground without the spirit of God - not so different from a Neanderthal.???
« Last Edit: Tue Sep 27, 2011 - 06:41:14 by Beta »

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #12 on: Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 00:00:26 »
A lot of people share in this misunderstanding.

There is nothing in Genesis 1:1 that says that the heavens and earth that God is creating there were either perfect or fully complete.  Verse 2 actually indicates the precise opposite - they were a chaotic mess.

Then in verse 3 up to the end of the chapter, God goes about the work of FORMING what was chaotic into something orderly.

Genesis 1 is a chapter that reveals the character of God as one who gives FORM and ORDER to that which is chaotic, and who spends time working to make things into their ultimate shape, through long processes.

It is unfortunate that man has twisted the meaning to says that God is one who makes things POOF! in an instant, fully formed at the start.  Nothing could be farther from the message in the Bible, starting at Gen 1, and continuing through to the end.

He's still working on me...
.

Offline Sinead

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #13 on: Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 00:18:15 »
hmmm..I've heard this false teaching before. Adam and Eve were the first people created. Just read what the bible says and believe it. It's not hard...

Offline KNOWLEDGE BOMB

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #14 on: Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 00:27:02 »

You are right about God not making things perfect to begin with or about taking his time.
But we do read Gen.1 how that everything he created was ' very good'.
[/quote]

IT does not say anything about good in verse one.
I also say that since God was making the earth and light that would be a 24 hour day for earth
as we know it, while wouldn't God also work on this 24 hour day too


 

God will in that day to those such as  Stephen hawking who says before the big bang there
wasn't time so there's no God and "HE will make fools of the wise"
« Last Edit: Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 00:35:35 by KNOWLEDGE BOMB »

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #15 on: Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 01:30:30 »
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 1Cor 15:45

By your reasoning there should have been no other man after Christ.........

Adam was not the first.

Genesis 1:26 "And God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them."

One should notice that male and female were created at the same time.....

Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

God did not tell Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply,heck Eve isn't even on the scene yet.....


As for the gap, there was one.......

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]

Now lets continue in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary to get the true meaning for the word "void". # 2258, on page 36 tells us that we have to go to # 2254 for the prime on the meaning of this word "void". # 2254; "Chabal, khaw-bal; to wind tightly as a rope, to bind, to pervert, destroy, to corrupt, spoil, travail," This corresponds with its other use in # 2255, which reads; "to ruin".

"Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude. We will look into these Scripture passages and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.

If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.

This verse, then, does verify the fact that our earth is older than 6,000 years old. To be more exact, it's probably many millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place we can live on in the flesh and survive. We do not worship God's creation; we are to worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on the earth from the first earth age.

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."


Offline n2thelight

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #16 on: Wed Nov 02, 2011 - 01:59:03 »
We find more documentation concerning the first earth age in II Peter 3. In fact we can read of all three earth ages, as Peter becomes a witness to the fact.

II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

The earth came about by "the word of God", God's speech. Some ministers preach that this was Noah's flood, well let's see.

II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved.

When you drive out on the highway today, and look at the road cutaways, you can see the layers that the ages and time have formed over the eons of years. You say this earth is 6000 years? Even a child should know better than that.

II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming fire.

II Peter 3:8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

One week is 7000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is "the Millennium age". The Millennium age is the thousand years after Jesus Christ returns to earth at the seventh trumpet to establish his kingdom here on earth. All souls at that time will not be in the flesh bodies, but in another dimension. They will exist in their incorruptible bodies, spoken of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.

II Peter 3:9; "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

So we have witnessed in II Peter 3 that there are three earth ages, and three heaven ages that correspond with the earth age periods of time. We see also in Jeremiah 4 that there is another witness to the fact of these three earth ages.

Jeremiah 4:22; "For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge."

How many people really know God's Word? There are very few that can quote you anything from the Bible, except those parts that can give them personal gain. The translators were kind to use the word "sottish", for the word means just plain "stupid", or "silly". The nature of mankind today is to "make a buck any way that you can". Their minds are evil constantly, as they were in the days of Noah. However, in the ways of goodness, and doing right, there is a void.

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].

Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12.

We were not in flesh bodies,in that first age,we with the Father when He created this earth,perfect I might add

Job 38

1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

  7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Parts of this study taken from the below link

http://www.theseason.org/genesis/genesis1.htm

Offline pointmade

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #17 on: Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 15:45:50 »
Jarrod: "It is unfortunate that man has twisted the meaning to says that God is one who makes things POOF! in an instant, fully formed at the start.  Nothing could be farther from the message in the Bible, starting at Gen 1, and continuing through to the end."

The God I worship is not limited in His power.

I know science has a problem with guys like me who believe He spoke His creation into existence.
He had little problem with resurrecting Jesus from the grave; or calling Lazarus from the tomb.
He circumvented nature when He changed the water into wine. Cause the blind to see and the lame to walk.
And you believe he could not speak and hang the sun and the moon?

Hebrews 11:3---"By faith we understand that the worlds have been framed by the word of God,
so that what is seen has not been made out of things which appear."

Obviously, Creation out of visible material is clearly denied in this Scripture.
Note 2 Peter 3:5; Romans 4:17; 2 Corinthians 4:18.
this is in harmony with the view held generally, that Genesis 1:1 teaches Creation by the power of
Divine Thought and Will without the pre-existing matter.

The answer in Genessis is unequivocally in the affirmative; the cosmos did have a beginning: before anything
of the nature of "physical" energy began, there was GOD, the WORD of GOD, and the SPIRT of GOD:
only the God of the bible, the triune God, is without beginning or end.
Psalm 90:2---"even from everlasing to everlasting, thou art God."




Offline RobWLarson

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #18 on: Sun Nov 06, 2011 - 19:45:20 »
There is not much to add to what n2thelight has already said. I would only like to point out that Hebrews 11:7 says nothing of "I will shake it again." It simply speaks of Noah's faith in God. I do believe in the pre-adamic earth. This is not a topic of debate, it is simply clear scripture. n2thelight has brought out most of the scriptures dealing with this. Of course God spoke and it was. I have an opinion that the devils(disembodied spirits)are from the cities and nations of the pre-adamic world. Neanderthal or whatever they were, we know that devils(or demons)are not the same as fallen angels. That is clear in the fact that fallen angels do indeed have bodies. We know this because they fornicated with human women before.
  Just a little bit added to what n2light has already discussed.

cs80918

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #19 on: Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 23:22:58 »
Those who are deceived by either satan, the world or the flesh, believe that Adam was not the first man.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day

And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day

And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

The only day this statement was not stated was on the 7th day.

God knew there would be people that didn't believe he created the earth in six 24 hour periods.  He knew there would be scientist that would claim the earth was 4.54 billion years old.

God knew about all the absolute and relative dating methods that people would invent.

Satan is the father of lies and he really has done a wondeful job fooling people with this one.

What other super natural miracles of the bible has satan, your flesh or the world has fooled you on as well?

Do you contribute every miracle in the bible to "so called" natural processes?  or do you pick and choose?

Did Moses really lead his people through a large body of water, because God super naturally did it?  or did a natural even make it happen?

Did Jesus stop the wind and waves by super natural means?

Dis God have sex with Mary by natural means or was it a super natural thing?

Did Jesus resurrect Lazarus by natural means or was it a miracle?






Offline Sinead

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #20 on: Tue Nov 22, 2011 - 23:28:30 »
Pre-Adamaic world?

Demons are disembodied spirits? Since when???

 Is there any scripture that chrisitans <-- (some) haven't messed up with their distorted ideas??


cs80918

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #21 on: Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 14:24:44 »
Cain was afraid of people who KNEW that he killed Abel.  Who would know Cain killed Abel?  His relatives and people by word of mouth who heard about Cain killing Abel.  If someone kills someone in China even today people in the U.S. are not aware of every murder in China.  If that muderer came to the U.S. without modern identification methods we would not know that person was a murderer.  The only way people know someone is a murdered is, because of information given to them.

You said there were no brothers or sisters besides Cain and Abel until Seth.  The bible is not clear on that at all. When you read through genesis it is not in perfect chronological order.

The first part describes the 6 days of creation in a macro presentation.  Then afterwards a micro presentation.

It does not say how old Cain was when he killed Abel.  It does not give the age of Adam and Eve when each of their children were born, neither does it tell exactly how many children they had.  It is possible that Adam and Eve had hundreds of children, over a period of hundreds of years.

It is possible the towns could of only been half a mile a part or only a few miles a part.  I doubt the modern perspection of a town is accurate to describe the first towns or cities.  The might of just been two or three shacks or huts, adobe, tents or whatever.  Series of caves.

Adam and Eve in all likely hood were having sex and were not using any birth control methods.  I personally believe they were popping babies out as fast or faster than the people on that TV show that has 20 kids.  


« Last Edit: Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 14:31:40 by cs80918 »

cs80918

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #22 on: Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 15:59:40 »
Cain was afraid of people who KNEW that he killed Abel.  Who would know Cain killed Abel?  His relatives and people by word of mouth who heard about Cain killing Abel.  If someone kills someone in China even today people in the U.S. are not aware of every murder in China.  If that muderer came to the U.S. without modern identification methods we would not know that person was a murderer.  The only way people know someone is a murdered is, because of information given to them.

You said there were no brothers or sisters besides Cain and Abel until Seth.  The bible is not clear on that at all. When you read through genesis it is not in perfect chronological order.

The first part describes the 6 days of creation in a macro presentation.  Then afterwards a micro presentation.

It does not say how old Cain was when he killed Abel.  It does not give the age of Adam and Eve when each of their children were born, neither does it tell exactly how many children they had.  It is possible that Adam and Eve had hundreds of children, over a period of hundreds of years.

It is possible the towns could of only been half a mile a part or only a few miles a part.  I doubt the modern perspection of a town is accurate to describe the first towns or cities.  The might of just been two or three shacks or huts, adobe, tents or whatever.  Series of caves.

Adam and Eve in all likely hood were having sex and were not using any birth control methods.  I personally believe they were popping babies out as fast or faster than the people on that TV show that has 20 kids.  





There were Pre-Adamites...

Why would Cain need a mark(Protection)?(Genesis 4:15)
His parents would know him by sight?

Genesis 5:3-4:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

 4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

What would future brothers and sisters have against Cain,if he had moved away from Adam and Eve?(Genesis 4:16)

Why did cain state ''that every one that findeth me shall slay me''?
Why didn't he state ''my brothers and sisters''?

Where did Cain get his wife??

http://www.israelect.com/ChurchOfTrueIsrael/weis-what-is-identity.html - Was Adam the first man?


Lets look at this verse you gave me

Genesis 5:3-4:3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Did it say that Adam begat his third son?  It said in his own likeness after his image.  It could of meant that the son looked very similiar to Adam, but his other sons before that did not look that much like Adam.  Adam might of had all the genes of every race inside of him, Eve might of had the genes of every race inside of her.  Adam and Eve might of been a mixture of every race.  They might of had white, black, brown and asian children, who know what each of their children looked like.

Also, what if God only gave Adam at 130 years and Eve only 3 sons up until that point, but gave them 50-80 daughters.


Okay lets look at the next verse you gave me.

4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

You do notice that it did not mention Cain and Abel in this verse?  It is also possible that this verse did not mention the sons/daughter or just daughters that Adam and Eve had before Seth either.

No where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve had a problem having children.  Adam and Eve were most likely having sex this whole time.  I don't know if you are fertile, but I am.  When I don't use birth control methods I produce children generally within 1 to 2 months of having unprotected sex.


Lets look at your next question.

What would future brothers and sisters have against Cain,if he had moved away from Adam and Eve?(Genesis 4:16

We don't know how far people lived away from each other at that time.  It was obvious to Cain that people would know what he did.  That means that all the people that he knew that existed on the earth, would knew that he had killed Abel and Cain felt like they would try to punish him or kill him or something.  They wanted to avenge the death of their other brother Abel.


Lets look at another one of your questions.

Why would Cain need a mark(Protection)?(Genesis 4:15)
His parents would know him by sight?

The bible never says what this mark said or looks like.  In order for this mark to have authority people must of knew that God made this mark.  Otherwise Cain could of just told people "Don't punish me, because God said not to", who would believe that from a killer? Could you really trust the word of a killer?

Whatever this mark looked like or said, people knew GOD made this mark.  When people saw it on Cain they knew not to mess with him.  Even Adam and Eve knew not to avenge Abel's death on Cain.

Now lets look at this question of yours.

Why did cain state ''that every one that findeth me shall slay me''?
Why didn't he state ''my brothers and sisters''?


By then he might of had nieces and nephews too and great great nieces and nephews etc.

Also, the bible never says if Abel had a wife or had children or not.

Just as pre-adamic theory people can be creative, so can I. 




cs80918

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #23 on: Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 16:35:02 »
christian1483- You are making many assumptions about this just like I have to make assumptions.

You said how did Cain have nieces and Nephews, if Cain and Abel were the only children of Adam and Eve at that time.

The bible never said that Cain and Abel were the only children of Adam and Eve at the time Abel was killed.  It never says that at all, some people make that assumption, but there is no evidence to support that conclusion.

Also, lets look at when Cain went to the Land of Nod.

Then Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and bore Enoch. And he built a city, and called the name of the city after the name of his son—Enoch.


It said and Cain knew his wife.   It never said Cain FOUND a wife in the Land of Nod.  It also nevers says he did not have a wife before or when he killed Abel.  It is possible that Cain had a wife before he killed Abel, it is possible that he had children before he killed Abel.  It is also possible that Abel had children before he was killed.

The verse above never said and Cain has his first son or first child, it never says that.

cs80918

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #24 on: Sun Nov 27, 2011 - 16:59:09 »


Your statement-So,what Seth was in the likeness and image of Adam but any others were NOT?

My reply- We are both speculating here. But...  AS you say Maybe all of Adam and Eves children were in the likeness and image of Adam, who is to say that they were just not mentioned for whatever reason?

Your statement-It does not mention Cain and Abel because Abel was dead and Cain was gone away from Adam and Eve....

My reply-  Where does the bible say this is the reason?

Your statement-Genesis 4:16:And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

How would people know what he did if the only others around were Adam and Eve?

My reply- Where does the bible say that Adam and Eve were the only people around?  Also, where does the bible say that there were other towns or cities?  It just says the land of Nod, it does not say it was occupyied with people.  The bible later says Cain built a city there, it never says there were people already there.  People were close enough together at that time so that the information that Cain killed Abel was easily and quickly spread by word of mouth.


Your statement- If Cain left and Adam and Eve,how could they kill him?

My reply-  If Cain left Adam and Eve, what restricted Adam and Eve from walking to where Cain was?



Your statement- If there were only brothers and sisters around,are you going to say that he took a wife from the people who he was afraid were going to kill him?

My reply-  The bible never says that he did not have a wife or even children, before he killed Abel.  Even if that is not the case, who is to say that some woman did not have mercy or Cain and decided to marry him.  Women even to this day marry convicted killers.

Your statement- Why would Cain build a city for just him and his wife?
Since when do people build cities for Just two people?vvvvvvvvvv

My reply-  Neither you or I know how big or small that city was or how many people lived there.  What if Cain had children and a wife before he left for the Land of Nod?  The bible also does not give a timeline of how long Cain was building this city.

Here is a question for.

When does someone build a city in only a few days?  When does someone build a city that is HUGE by himself?

Maybe he didn't do it by himself, maybe he had sons and daughter that he brought from where Adam and Eve were?

Offline stevehut

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #25 on: Mon Dec 05, 2011 - 11:27:39 »
I don't understand any of this. ???  Is there an essential Christian doctrine that hangs in the balance here?

Offline Insight

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #26 on: Mon Dec 05, 2011 - 22:51:52 »
In Genesis 1:1-2  v 1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)
 v2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)

The Bible said that God created Heaven and Earth, perfectly,then the heaven was alright, but the earth was chaotic. It is believed by Biblical Scholars that there had been a world like that of Adam that existed before the creation of Adam. So the creation of the world in Gen 1:3 is called the second creation. The first was marred, that was why the Bible said that the ''Earth was without Form and void''.
Do you believe that? What is your own opinion?




I have always wanted to use this emoticon.

Thanks

Insight

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #27 on: Mon Dec 12, 2011 - 04:24:31 »
The reason I tend tp believe the gap theory is that it allows me to take the scripture literally and yet also allows for the dinosaures to predate Adam and Eve, the first man and woman...

Gap Theory
Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  The hebrew word choice here tells us that it was created ready to be inhabited.
Gen1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 
The hebrew word for was is also used for became.  It is in context that one finds which to use, except here it can work either way...
Now compare the similar word order in this next passage with Gen1:2
 
Jer4:23-26   I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.  I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.  I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.  I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
 
From Adam to the end of the millennium, there is man upon the Earth.  Yet, here we see cities broken down by the Lord's anger and there is no man?  Also we see that there is no sun as yet.  This is because the Lord walked among them before there was sin.  In Rev21, 22; we see that there will again be no sun shinning upon the New Earth as the Lord is the light of the world, just as he was for the mortal men-like beings who became angels or demons.
 
Again compare the similar word order between Jer4 and Is14 as seen in the following; world as a wilderness = fruitful place was a wilderness or cities broken down = destroyed the cities thereof.  We also see that the evil one is in fact, a ghost that was cast out of his grave...
 
Is14:12-20     How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

So the Eath was created ready to be inhabitated according to the hebrew word choise used in Gen 1:1.  The evil one was created perfect and mortal.  He had to be mortal if he was cast out of his grave.  How long would it take for the evil one to go from leading his people in the praise and worship of the Lord to saying, 'I will be like the Most High?'  In the war that ensued between the two-thirds vs the one third, the Earth was made to be a wilderness.  The two thirds were given glorified immortal bodies and the one third became wandering spirits given over to reprobate minds.  1 Cor 15:46 "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual."  I suspect that he lied to his people and tricked them into worshiping him.  The same lie he used against Eve, 'you will be like God.'

This is called the Gap theory, meaning that there is an undetermined gap of time between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2
« Last Edit: Mon Dec 12, 2011 - 08:38:30 by glf »

Offline fenton

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Re: Adam Was Not The First Man Created.
« Reply #28 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 09:05:20 »
When your get to deep you are going to get stuck!!

 

     
anything