Author Topic: After 20yrs....  (Read 7049 times)

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Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #70 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 04:15:06 »
doorknocker,
That isn't the Biblical definition of SIN.

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #70 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 04:15:06 »

Online RB

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #71 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 04:58:37 »
Quote
I don't want to pick at your words.
That's commendable, and scriptural I might add.
Quote
Isaiah 29:21...Reads~ "That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought."
You said:
Quote
But you asked why Paul re-baptized some of John's disciples. My answer simply is that Jesus commanded it so. We have enough verses to verify that for sure.
Would you please supply those scriptures proving that. Actually the answer is in the context of Acts 19:1-6, particularly Acts 19:2-4 which reads:
Quote
"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."
Herein is the main place in the NT where we see expressly what separated John's baptism from all baptisms after Pentecost. These twelve believers at Ephesus were baptized according to John the Baptist baptism which WAS a proper method, both by immersion and proof of repentance, yet their baptism had taken place after Pentecost, which the promise of the Spirit was added as a gift to those who were baptized from Pentecost until this very day. They were indeed baptized properly, yet had never heard of the promise of the Spirit, they were void of so much as hearing if there was any Spirit.  Them being baptized by Paul added nothing to their eternal salvation which was secured by Christ alone, yet it did added KNOWLEDGE, and available POWER that they did not know they had at their finger tips! 
Quote
But for you to say it made the baptism of repentance invalid
I did not say that it was invalid as far as the method and the reason why one is baptized, for again, John DID baptized the baptism of REPENTANCE, and Paul agree with that, only these men were baptized after Pentecost which means that all baptisms after Pentecost are done with much more light and added reasons, namely we are now baptized INTO JESUS CHRIST, which John's baptism did not have, since Christ had not died and rose again, being highly exalted to God's right hand of power. No one before Christ's death and resurrection was baptized for the same reasons as we are, and receiving the same gift of the Spirit as we have.  I say we are baptized into Jesus Christ, which I mean that we are baptized into the religion/faith of Jesus Christ who is both Lord and King of believers. Our religion is not the religion of Islam, Mormonism, and a thousands other religions in Mystery Babylon, but ours is solely based upon the life, death and resurrection of the Son of the Living God.   And all of God's children said AMEN.  After forty one years in the true faith sanction by the God of Heaven.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 05:08:20 by RB »

Offline mclees8

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #72 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 05:52:41 »
I agree with Covkeeper  maybe on the point of being an X Christian . As he I no longer consider myself a Christian in the sense the word has become so cheap in the modern-day organized traditional church system.  Don't get me wrong I also agree with Chosen that there are many  followers of Christ in the orders. It's the orders that is the problem. Names that divide us into categories of beliefs.  I'm not sure what Cov is wanting to do. I don't count myself as any brain child of the scriptures but I don't consider myself as one who thinks he knows when he actually knows nothing. Still many here can dance circles around me with their  knowledge. What I have been given is a strong and reasonable  understanding having been a believer for thirty five years. I have seen a lot and the Lord has shown me a lot. So just what is your drive Cov that you thing you know that no one else knows. 


So Sorry my reply should have left back on the first page.
 

 For myself I dont think that we should ever deny what we are, Christians, just because some who use that name are a bad example. Should I say that I am an 'ex woman' because some women are awful?OR 'ex mother' because there are some terrible mothers out there? it makes no sense at all.

 Its up to us to be proud of using the name of Christ and be a GOOD example, and I for one will never ever deny what I am and call myself the weird name of 'ex Christian', especially if its because I think myself 'above' and 'more knowledgeable'  than the rest of Christs body an that they need me to teach them because they have it all wrong.  WHat arrogance  ::frown::.

He doesnt know what no one else knows, he merely has his own opinions and ideas on what the Bible says, as we all do. Mclee your beliefs and opinions and understandings are just as valid as his, its just that you have far more humility. I have often been impressed by your posts.     

Have you also noticed that he appears to ignore the verses and views from the women here? Maybe he thinks we are not knowledgeable enough for him, and yet Jesus even says 'let the little children come to me for the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these',  so Jesus thinks differently, knowledge to Him means little, He is concerned with our hearts and our love and our  passion for Him, wanting to be near Him and enjoy Him.  ::nodding::

I thank you for respectful comments concerning some of my posts.  About being proud of who we are, I am  proud to  saved and a follower of Christ. My favorite scripture I am going to put on a T-shirt Is " I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the word of God unto Salvation". You see I am just as proud of who I am as you. How ever when I see Christianity to day with all the false beliefs and doctrines of men. Big business and the use of every kind of worldly drag in I fail see I can be proud to identify with that.

I say our faith that is true first begins on  our knees in our prayer closet. I could never identify with I'm good Baptist or Methodist, or catholic.  I come here and see a theological think tank where we debate our theological skills. This is just what this fellow is doing. I say I didn't have to go  to mechanics school to learn every nut and bolt of the engine to own and drive a car. I am just a simple minded man yet I know I cn drive my car just as well as the next. I left training school long long ago. The most valuable things we can have are very simple when it comes to salvation." For God so loves the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whomsoever believes upon HIm shall nt perish but have ever lasting life." Simple   ::tippinghat::
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 06:06:16 by mclees8 »

Online RB

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #73 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 06:42:53 »
doorknocker, That isn't the Biblical definition of SIN.
I agree that unbelief is the result of sin, not the definition of it. I have a meeting to attend, will come back and give my understanding of what constitute sin.  I believe the simplest place to start would be where God started with sin.
Quote
Romans 5:12~"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
What Adam did to allow sin to entered into the world, would be the simplest definition of sin .  So what did Adam do, that God called it a sin? He disobeyed a commandment given to him from his Creator. Sin is a transgression of a commandment/law given by God. Once it is conceived (the lust of it) in one's thoughts, at that point it becomes a sin, and it comes forth~ and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 11:06:36 by RB »

Offline Rella

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #74 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 07:47:03 »

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

acts 8 v 38
And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

 Just one example of them doing what Jesus had instructed.

Then IF this statement Jesus made is true, and it is only water baptism....

" He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

then I am very saddened.

The reason is that family and friends, who have left this mortal life...of whom were very good believers and followers to the best of their ability in Christ ... the bulk of them are damned because none of them
got re-baptised after accepting Jesus.

Only a couple who did it when visiting the Holy lands and the travel group did it over there.... but not as part of being saved but more a part of being able to tell folks when they got back here.

And I am likely not going to make it because I have not been. (Yes, I know I can.... but I have no church
that immerses near me and for me to travel is not possible these days.)

If that is true, then every church that professes to be a Christian church, that does not re-baptize after accepting Jesus, or submerses,  is leading their congregations to hell in a hand basket....

And people flock there every Sunday not knowing.




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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #74 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 07:47:03 »



Offline MeMyself

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #75 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 08:49:17 »
Hey, Doorknocker, do you play the Trumpet, by any chance?

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #76 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 09:46:56 »
CovKeeper34

To answer your question about sin:

Sin is anything that we do that is outside of the will of God.
   
In the Old Testament there are many examples of folks saying no to God and then suffering the consequences.    Jonah is a good example.   He got up close and personal with a big fish.   And poor Moses never got into the Promised Land because he did not follow God's instructions.

The same goes for the New Testament.    We are to try to be reflections of the Light that is in us.    We, as children of the Living God have the Spirit of God within us.    When God directs us to go one way and we do the opposite….that is sin.

In the New Testament:

Matthew 22: 36-40    Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

1John: 3-4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.


« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 10:01:41 by Layceers »

Offline mclees8

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #77 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 10:38:15 »
CovKeeper34

To answer your question about sin:

Sin is anything that we do that is outside of the will of God.
   
In the Old Testament there are many examples of folks saying no to God and then suffering the consequences.    Jonah is a good example.   He got up close and personal with a big fish.   And poor Moses never got into the Promised Land because he did not follow God's instructions.

The same goes for the New Testament.    We are to try to be reflections of the Light that is in us.    We, as children of the Living God have the Spirit of God within us.    When God directs us to go one way and we do the opposite….that is sin.

In the New Testament:

Matthew 22: 36-40    Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

1John: 3-4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

So how would you interpret that verse whosoever sinneth has not seen Him.  Just what do see it saying. First examine your self and see if there is no failing you. Then tell us what you think.

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #78 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 10:41:00 »
RB,

You asked that I provide verses that prove Christ commanded baptism in His name.

Matthew 28:19-20 and similar verses at the end of other Gospels.

It's reasonable to say that, if He wouldn't have commanded it, neither Paul nor the other Apostles would've continued doing it. Just like in Christianity today, some really believe that if the NT doesn't explicitly bring up a teaching, they aren't accountable.

Your explanations about Water baptism are acceptable as I do understand what you're saying. But I think I'm ready to add that perspective I was talking about.....

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #79 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 10:54:59 »
RB and Layceers,

You both gave that one BEST answer to what SIN is:

Sin is the transgression of the Law/comm..This is consistently True from FT to NT, is it not?

AHH, if I go any further I'll jump ahead of myself! But since we have the SIN thing established:

Who is able to give the Biblical definition of REPENTANCE and what it consistenty applies to using both halves of the Book?

Remember, Consistency rules. This is the beginning of where popular Christian doctrines get proven to be false.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:33:41 by Covkeeper34 »

Offline Layceers

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #80 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 10:58:42 »
CovKeeper34

To answer your question about sin:

Sin is anything that we do that is outside of the will of God.
   
In the Old Testament there are many examples of folks saying no to God and then suffering the consequences.    Jonah is a good example.   He got up close and personal with a big fish.   And poor Moses never got into the Promised Land because he did not follow God's instructions.

The same goes for the New Testament.    We are to try to be reflections of the Light that is in us.    We, as children of the Living God have the Spirit of God within us.    When God directs us to go one way and we do the opposite….that is sin.

In the New Testament:

Matthew 22: 36-40    Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.   On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

1John: 3-4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

So how would you interpret that verse whosoever sinneth has not seen Him.  Just what do see it saying. First examine your self and see if there is no failing you. Then tell us what you think.

Hmmmm....I have to ponder this for a bit.    But just to be honest, I have examined myself and fell short more times than I can count.    I have to run some errands for my Mother, but I will address this when I get back.     Alot to think and pray about.   

::Christianfish::

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #81 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 11:19:22 »
" He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."then I am very saddened.
My dear sister, do not be saddened.  Mark 16:16 is without question speaking of water baptism, but the salvation in this precious verse has not one thing to do with regeneration, but a practical salvation , that many saints in the OT did not enjoy, as NT saints do post Christ's death and resurrection. A sign, or evidence of one being damned is not whether or not they have been baptized properly, but do they indeed believe the record that God gave of his Son? If not, then that person shall be damned to the lake of fire, which is the second death. Water baptism properly performed with true faith, has temporal benefits/blessings, not eternal. Jesus Christ's faith/obedience/righteousness secured our eternal redemption for us according to the will of God. Do not be saddened my dear friend.

Offline doorknocker

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #82 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 12:44:52 »
RB and Layceers,

You both gave that one BEST answer to what SIN is:

Sin is the transgression of the Law/comm..This is consistently True from FT to NT, is it not?

AHH, if I go any further I'll jump ahead of myself! But since since we have the SIN thing established:

Who is able to give the Biblical definition of REPENTANCE and what it consistenty applies to using both halves of the Book?

Remember, Consistency rules. This is the beginning of where popular Christian doctrines get proven to be false.



Can you produce 2 or 3 scripture verse/reference that clearly define that

sin is the transgression of the law.

Also sin is the transgression of which law?

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #83 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 12:50:43 »
Hey, Doorknocker, do you play the Trumpet, by any chance?

 rofl

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #84 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:01:37 »

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

acts 8 v 38
And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.

 Just one example of them doing what Jesus had instructed.

Then IF this statement Jesus made is true, and it is only water baptism....

" He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

then I am very saddened.

The reason is that family and friends, who have left this mortal life...of whom were very good believers and followers to the best of their ability in Christ ... the bulk of them are damned because none of them
got re-baptised after accepting Jesus.

Only a couple who did it when visiting the Holy lands and the travel group did it over there.... but not as part of being saved but more a part of being able to tell folks when they got back here.

And I am likely not going to make it because I have not been. (Yes, I know I can.... but I have no church
that immerses near me and for me to travel is not possible these days.)

If that is true, then every church that professes to be a Christian church, that does not re-baptize after accepting Jesus, or submerses,  is leading their congregations to hell in a hand basket....

And people flock there every Sunday not knowing.
 

Rella, it says He that believeth not shall be damned. It doesnt say he who hasnt been baptised shall be damned . I dont believe that Gods children are damned merely because they didnt get wet in the right way. There are many strong mature believers who were baptised as babies and then confirmed and yet were never baptised again as adults who I am 100% sure are or will be in heaven when they die. Their churches dont even do adult baptism. There must also be countless people who convert in a life or death situation or who are on their death bed when they find Jesus,  who dont get the chance to be baptised. The thief on the cross wasnt baptised. Someone can be converted and then die before they can be baptised, they are saved already.

I wouldnt worry about that. I believe its right and good that we are baptised as believers in obedience to Him, but as for people not being saved if they havent, cant see that is what The Bible says at all.

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #85 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:20:25 »
I agree with Covkeeper  maybe on the point of being an X Christian . As he I no longer consider myself a Christian in the sense the word has become so cheap in the modern-day organized traditional church system.  Don't get me wrong I also agree with Chosen that there are many  followers of Christ in the orders. It's the orders that is the problem. Names that divide us into categories of beliefs.  I'm not sure what Cov is wanting to do. I don't count myself as any brain child of the scriptures but I don't consider myself as one who thinks he knows when he actually knows nothing. Still many here can dance circles around me with their  knowledge. What I have been given is a strong and reasonable  understanding having been a believer for thirty five years. I have seen a lot and the Lord has shown me a lot. So just what is your drive Cov that you thing you know that no one else knows. 


So Sorry my reply should have left back on the first page.
 

 For myself I dont think that we should ever deny what we are, Christians, just because some who use that name are a bad example. Should I say that I am an 'ex woman' because some women are awful?OR 'ex mother' because there are some terrible mothers out there? it makes no sense at all.

 Its up to us to be proud of using the name of Christ and be a GOOD example, and I for one will never ever deny what I am and call myself the weird name of 'ex Christian', especially if its because I think myself 'above' and 'more knowledgeable'  than the rest of Christs body an that they need me to teach them because they have it all wrong.  WHat arrogance  ::frown::.

He doesnt know what no one else knows, he merely has his own opinions and ideas on what the Bible says, as we all do. Mclee your beliefs and opinions and understandings are just as valid as his, its just that you have far more humility. I have often been impressed by your posts.     

Have you also noticed that he appears to ignore the verses and views from the women here? Maybe he thinks we are not knowledgeable enough for him, and yet Jesus even says 'let the little children come to me for the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these',  so Jesus thinks differently, knowledge to Him means little, He is concerned with our hearts and our love and our  passion for Him, wanting to be near Him and enjoy Him.  ::nodding::

I thank you for respectful comments concerning some of my posts.  About being proud of who we are, I am  proud to  saved and a follower of Christ. My favorite scripture I am going to put on a T-shirt Is " I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the word of God unto Salvation". You see I am just as proud of who I am as you. How ever when I see Christianity to day with all the false beliefs and doctrines of men. Big business and the use of every kind of worldly drag in I fail see I can be proud to identify with that.

I say our faith that is true first begins on  our knees in our prayer closet. I could never identify with I'm good Baptist or Methodist, or catholic.  I come here and see a theological think tank where we debate our theological skills. This is just what this fellow is doing. I say I didn't have to go  to mechanics school to learn every nut and bolt of the engine to own and drive a car. I am just a simple minded man yet I know I cn drive my car just as well as the next. I left training school long long ago. The most valuable things we can have are very simple when it comes to salvation." For God so loves the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whomsoever believes upon HIm shall nt perish but have ever lasting life." Simple   ::tippinghat::


Thanks for the reply mclee, my thoughts on what you said are, isnt that all the more reason for us to show the world that not all Christians are bad? Not to used some silly term such as an 'ex Christian' which no one,  Christian or not, will have any idea what its about.   
Of course we never hear about the billions of decent honest believers who are quietly getting on with life, praying, reading their bibles, loving others, loving God, and doing their best. I have to say I have known and know so many lovely Christians, I dont see what the op sees in the churches at all, I see groups of Christians worshipping God and doing their best to live as Christs body here on earth. People in churches having to be different from the world around, and shine more as things get darker.

Far from rejecting my brothers and sisters because they are not as 'I' think they should be, and from separating myself form them(which we are told NOT to do),far from thinking arrogantly that 'I' alone must educate them on all their many mistakes and faults, because they apparently are no where near what the early church was like,we are supposed to love and support each other in our weaknesses and be part of Christs body on earth. We are part of a Gods army, we need each other.

AS I see it, calling myself an 'ex christian; is letting satan win. I am a Christian and proud of it and I want to be identified as such. I want to be identified with the billions of other believers who have lived and who are living now, and I wont let the fact that there are some bad apples in the bunch scare me off from using Christs name.  ::shrug:: 
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:25:17 by chosenone »

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #86 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:25:50 »
doorknocker,

You asked if I can produce 2 or 3 scripture/verses that clearly defined Sin as transgression of Law. This is easy:

1John 3:4: 'Whoever commits Sin, transgresses the Law: because Sin is transgression of the Law.'

That's point-blank. Have you consciously sinned recently? Or should I say, have you offended the Law recently?

Daniel 9:11: 'Yes, all Israel have transgressed your Law.'

Pretty straight forward? Consistent? Yes. One more?

Lamentations 3:42: 'We have transgressed and have rebelled...'

Transgressed and rebelled against what? The Law.

Those are easy FT references. Let's test my rule of consistency and see if NT compliments:

Acts 1:25: ".....from which Judas by TRANSGRESSION fell....."

Judas stole and caused an innocent man to be murdered. Are there any LAWS against such in your Bible? Yes, and they're easy to find

So, it's consistent from first half to second. How is Christianity defining Sin today? Some Christian earlier said Sin is unbelief and disobedience. That's as far as Christianity will take it but noticed how that person only gave you the half. Because when you start connecting these subjects to Law, the Christian religion will decline from acknowledgement. You have to start asking why that is. It's red flags when you start investigating the validity of Christianity's doctrines. Don't be afraid to ask those hard questions--that turn out to have simple biblical answers.

You asked, 'Sin is the transgression of which Law?'

Simply: Read your Torah and it'll be obviously written in plain English.





« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:35:18 by Covkeeper34 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #87 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:33:55 »
doorknocker,

You asked if I can produce 2 or 3 scripture/verses that clearly defined Sin as transgression of Law. This is easy:

1John 3: 'Whoever commits Sin, transgresses the Law: because Sin is transgression of the Law.'

That's point-blank. Have you consciously sinned recently? Or should I say, have you offended the Law recently?

Daniel 9:11: 'Yes, all Israel have transgressed your Law.'

Pretty straight forward? Consistent? Yes. One more?

Lamentations 3:42: 'We have transgressed and have rebelled...'

Transgressed and rebelled against what? The Law.

Those are easy FT references. Let's test my rule of consistency and see if NT compliments:

Acts 1:25: ".....from which Judas by TRANSGRESSION fell....."

Judas stole and caused an innocent man to be murdered. Are there any LAWS against such in your Bible? Yes, and they're easy to find

So, it's consistent from first half to second. How is Christianity defining Sin today? Some Christian earlier said Sin is rebellion and disobedience. That's as far as Christianity will take it but noticed how that person only gave you the half. Because when you start connecting these subjects to Law, the Christian religion will decline from acknowledgement. You have to start asking why that is. It's red flags when you start investigating the validity of Christianity's doctrines. Don't be afraid to ask those hard questions--that turn out to have simple biblical answers.

You asked, 'Sin is the transgression of which Law?'

Simply: Read your Torah and it'll be obviously written in plain English.

can you tell me why this matter so much to you? Why its so vitally important to you that you try and persuade us that you have all the answers?
The fact is that Jesus died for us so that we can have our sins wiped away. How you or I define sin makes no difference to that. God says that we have ALL fallen short, therefore we ALL need Jesus to forgive us from our sins. Arguing/discussing exactly what is and isnt sin changes nothing, and I think that most of us are well aware what sin is in our own lives. 

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #88 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 13:50:22 »
chosenone,

I would like to call your Faith into question.

Our bibles tell us to be ready to give an answer to every man who asks a reason for your Faith. Are you prepared for me or no?

But one rule between you and me:

No commentary on each person's character or persona. Strict focus on Bible and Christian teachings. No personal shots fired. And lastly show me the same courtesy RB and Layceers has shown so far.

Deal?

There's some things I'm dying to ask you.

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #89 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:03:13 »
Quote
I would like to call your Faith into question.

What is the point of doing so?  Are you trying to prove to people they are not saved? 

Quote
Our bibles tell us to be ready to give an answer to every man who asks a reason for your Faith

1 Peter 3 :15 but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;



« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:10:23 by MeMyself »

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #90 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:17:54 »
chosenone,

I would like to call your Faith into question.

Our bibles tell us to be ready to give an answer to every man who asks a reason for your Faith. Are you prepared for me or no?

But one rule between you and me:

No commentary on each person's character or persona. Strict focus on Bible and Christian teachings. No personal shots fired. And lastly show me the same courtesy RB and Layceers has shown so far.

Deal?

There's some things I'm dying to ask you.

You may want to revisit Rule 1.5

Offline mclees8

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #91 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:26:14 »
I agree with Covkeeper  maybe on the point of being an X Christian . As he I no longer consider myself a Christian in the sense the word has become so cheap in the modern-day organized traditional church system.  Don't get me wrong I also agree with Chosen that there are many  followers of Christ in the orders. It's the orders that is the problem. Names that divide us into categories of beliefs.  I'm not sure what Cov is wanting to do. I don't count myself as any brain child of the scriptures but I don't consider myself as one who thinks he knows when he actually knows nothing. Still many here can dance circles around me with their  knowledge. What I have been given is a strong and reasonable  understanding having been a believer for thirty five years. I have seen a lot and the Lord has shown me a lot. So just what is your drive Cov that you thing you know that no one else knows. 


So Sorry my reply should have left back on the first page.
 

 For myself I dont think that we should ever deny what we are, Christians, just because some who use that name are a bad example. Should I say that I am an 'ex woman' because some women are awful?OR 'ex mother' because there are some terrible mothers out there? it makes no sense at all.

 Its up to us to be proud of using the name of Christ and be a GOOD example, and I for one will never ever deny what I am and call myself the weird name of 'ex Christian', especially if its because I think myself 'above' and 'more knowledgeable'  than the rest of Christs body an that they need me to teach them because they have it all wrong.  WHat arrogance  ::frown::.

He doesnt know what no one else knows, he merely has his own opinions and ideas on what the Bible says, as we all do. Mclee your beliefs and opinions and understandings are just as valid as his, its just that you have far more humility. I have often been impressed by your posts.     

Have you also noticed that he appears to ignore the verses and views from the women here? Maybe he thinks we are not knowledgeable enough for him, and yet Jesus even says 'let the little children come to me for the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these',  so Jesus thinks differently, knowledge to Him means little, He is concerned with our hearts and our love and our  passion for Him, wanting to be near Him and enjoy Him.  ::nodding::

I thank you for respectful comments concerning some of my posts.  About being proud of who we are, I am  proud to  saved and a follower of Christ. My favorite scripture I am going to put on a T-shirt Is " I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the word of God unto Salvation". You see I am just as proud of who I am as you. How ever when I see Christianity to day with all the false beliefs and doctrines of men. Big business and the use of every kind of worldly drag in I fail see I can be proud to identify with that.

I say our faith that is true first begins on  our knees in our prayer closet. I could never identify with I'm good Baptist or Methodist, or catholic.  I come here and see a theological think tank where we debate our theological skills. This is just what this fellow is doing. I say I didn't have to go  to mechanics school to learn every nut and bolt of the engine to own and drive a car. I am just a simple minded man yet I know I cn drive my car just as well as the next. I left training school long long ago. The most valuable things we can have are very simple when it comes to salvation." For God so loves the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whomsoever believes upon HIm shall nt perish but have ever lasting life." Simple   ::tippinghat::


Thanks for the reply mclee, my thoughts on what you said are, isnt that all the more reason for us to show the world that not all Christians are bad? Not to used some silly term such as an 'ex Christian' which no one,  Christian or not, will have any idea what its about.   
Of course we never hear about the billions of decent honest believers who are quietly getting on with life, praying, reading their bibles, loving others, loving God, and doing their best. I have to say I have known and know so many lovely Christians, I dont see what the op sees in the churches at all, I see groups of Christians worshipping God and doing their best to live as Christs body here on earth. People in churches having to be different from the world around, and shine more as things get darker.

Far from rejecting my brothers and sisters because they are not as 'I' think they should be, and from separating myself form them(which we are told NOT to do),far from thinking arrogantly that 'I' alone must educate them on all their many mistakes and faults, because they apparently are no where near what the early church was like,we are supposed to love and support each other in our weaknesses and be part of Christs body on earth. We are part of a Gods army, we need each other.

AS I see it, calling myself an 'ex christian; is letting satan win. I am a Christian and proud of it and I want to be identified as such. I want to be identified with the billions of other believers who have lived and who are living now, and I wont let the fact that there are some bad apples in the bunch scare me off from using Christs name.  ::shrug::

I am not trying to put a trip on good believers because I Believe I said I agreed with you on that point. Its the fact that the church has become more like smorgasbord Christianity. While I was still in the assemblies of God I had a pastor who put it this way once. It went like this, " one is asked are you a Christian. The fellow then says, of course I m a Christian Im and American. You see the world has come to the place that with all this variety club that Christianity has become just another religion in the world amongst many religions
 I want to identify with the onfire bunch in the early church. I would also say that earliest of the believers that came out of Pentecost had no name because Jesus nor the apostles gave the church a name. Im not sure how much time had passed before people in Antioch gave the believers the name Christian, and they were not of the believers. Those out side of the church the believers the name Christians.

This could be a whole book before it's over and I am not trying to attack the true and the blue believer's you call your Christian brothers. If you want to call your self Christian fine and I don't go around bragging about things like EX Christian. I just saw it from my own perspective.
 
Have an errand to run for now but God bless and be the Christian you can be. Maybe we could talk again some time about it.    ::smile::
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:31:02 by mclees8 »

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #92 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:38:35 »
chosenone,

I would like to call your Faith into question.

Our bibles tell us to be ready to give an answer to every man who asks a reason for your Faith. Are you prepared for me or no?

But one rule between you and me:

No commentary on each person's character or persona. Strict focus on Bible and Christian teachings. No personal shots fired. And lastly show me the same courtesy RB and Layceers has shown so far.

Deal?

There's some things I'm dying to ask you.
 

call my faith into question? Okay, how is that not rude and offensive? How is that NOT a commentary on my character and persona?

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #93 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:44:19 »
MeMyself,

You asked why I want to call her Faith into question. It's not so much her but Christian teachings altogether. If she keeps talking on my post, I'm kinda led to believe she's somewhat knowledgeable. And didn't I say I only wanted to talk to knowledgeable Christians? And didn't I ask her not to reply on my Post if she has nothing Bible related to contribute?

If she is confident in her convictions, I'd like to see if she's considered some things I've seem as detrimental in that Religion as far as doctrines.

Normally on sites, Moderators stay in the background--quiet.

Am I trying to prove people aren't saved?

Simply, no.

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #94 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:46:46 »
I agree with Covkeeper  maybe on the point of being an X Christian . As he I no longer consider myself a Christian in the sense the word has become so cheap in the modern-day organized traditional church system.  Don't get me wrong I also agree with Chosen that there are many  followers of Christ in the orders. It's the orders that is the problem. Names that divide us into categories of beliefs.  I'm not sure what Cov is wanting to do. I don't count myself as any brain child of the scriptures but I don't consider myself as one who thinks he knows when he actually knows nothing. Still many here can dance circles around me with their  knowledge. What I have been given is a strong and reasonable  understanding having been a believer for thirty five years. I have seen a lot and the Lord has shown me a lot. So just what is your drive Cov that you thing you know that no one else knows. 


So Sorry my reply should have left back on the first page.
 

 For myself I dont think that we should ever deny what we are, Christians, just because some who use that name are a bad example. Should I say that I am an 'ex woman' because some women are awful?OR 'ex mother' because there are some terrible mothers out there? it makes no sense at all.

 Its up to us to be proud of using the name of Christ and be a GOOD example, and I for one will never ever deny what I am and call myself the weird name of 'ex Christian', especially if its because I think myself 'above' and 'more knowledgeable'  than the rest of Christs body an that they need me to teach them because they have it all wrong.  WHat arrogance  ::frown::.

He doesnt know what no one else knows, he merely has his own opinions and ideas on what the Bible says, as we all do. Mclee your beliefs and opinions and understandings are just as valid as his, its just that you have far more humility. I have often been impressed by your posts.     

Have you also noticed that he appears to ignore the verses and views from the women here? Maybe he thinks we are not knowledgeable enough for him, and yet Jesus even says 'let the little children come to me for the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these',  so Jesus thinks differently, knowledge to Him means little, He is concerned with our hearts and our love and our  passion for Him, wanting to be near Him and enjoy Him.  ::nodding::

I thank you for respectful comments concerning some of my posts.  About being proud of who we are, I am  proud to  saved and a follower of Christ. My favorite scripture I am going to put on a T-shirt Is " I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the word of God unto Salvation". You see I am just as proud of who I am as you. How ever when I see Christianity to day with all the false beliefs and doctrines of men. Big business and the use of every kind of worldly drag in I fail see I can be proud to identify with that.

I say our faith that is true first begins on  our knees in our prayer closet. I could never identify with I'm good Baptist or Methodist, or catholic.  I come here and see a theological think tank where we debate our theological skills. This is just what this fellow is doing. I say I didn't have to go  to mechanics school to learn every nut and bolt of the engine to own and drive a car. I am just a simple minded man yet I know I cn drive my car just as well as the next. I left training school long long ago. The most valuable things we can have are very simple when it comes to salvation." For God so loves the world that He gave his only begotten Son that whomsoever believes upon HIm shall nt perish but have ever lasting life." Simple   ::tippinghat::


Thanks for the reply mclee, my thoughts on what you said are, isnt that all the more reason for us to show the world that not all Christians are bad? Not to used some silly term such as an 'ex Christian' which no one,  Christian or not, will have any idea what its about.   
Of course we never hear about the billions of decent honest believers who are quietly getting on with life, praying, reading their bibles, loving others, loving God, and doing their best. I have to say I have known and know so many lovely Christians, I dont see what the op sees in the churches at all, I see groups of Christians worshipping God and doing their best to live as Christs body here on earth. People in churches having to be different from the world around, and shine more as things get darker.

Far from rejecting my brothers and sisters because they are not as 'I' think they should be, and from separating myself form them(which we are told NOT to do),far from thinking arrogantly that 'I' alone must educate them on all their many mistakes and faults, because they apparently are no where near what the early church was like,we are supposed to love and support each other in our weaknesses and be part of Christs body on earth. We are part of a Gods army, we need each other.

AS I see it, calling myself an 'ex christian; is letting satan win. I am a Christian and proud of it and I want to be identified as such. I want to be identified with the billions of other believers who have lived and who are living now, and I wont let the fact that there are some bad apples in the bunch scare me off from using Christs name.  ::shrug::

I am not trying to put a trip on good believers because I Believe I said I agreed with you on that point. Its the fact that the church has become more like smorgasbord Christianity. While I was still in the assemblies of God I had a pastor who put it this way once. It went like this, " one is asked are you a Christian. The fellow then says, of course I m a Christian Im and American. You see the world has come to the place that with all this variety club that Christianity has become just another religion in the world amongst many religions
 I want to identify with the onfire bunch in the early church. I would also say that earliest of the believers that came out of Pentecost had no name because Jesus nor the apostles gave the church a name. Im not sure how much time had passed before people in Antioch gave the believers the name Christian, and they were not of the believers. Those out side of the church the believers the name Christians.

This could be a whole book before it's over and I am not trying to attack the true and the blue believer's you call your Christian brothers. If you want to call your self Christian fine and I don't go around bragging about things like EX Christian. I just saw it from my own perspective.
 
Have an errand to run for now but God bless and be the Christian you can be. Maybe we could talk again some time about it.    ::smile::



 Hi again
to be honest, mclee things are very different where I live in the UK. Especially in the last 40-50 years.Few would be daft enough to call themselves christian unless they are. Its a pretty secular country now and Christians are NOT well thought of generally, so only true believers or mad men would give themselves that name. Tony Blair was told NOT to mention His catholic faith when he was prime minister and Christian members of the govt are rare. People listen far more to famous atheists, pop stars, actors and actresses or tv stars that any one in the church. Christian values are more and more being ignored and moral values go down and down.
   
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:58:45 by chosenone »

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #95 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:47:25 »
chosenone,

Sooo, you think it's offensive for people who aren't Christian to ask you directly about Christian things? Are you serious?

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #96 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:49:45 »
MeMyself,

You asked why I want to call her Faith into question. It's not so much her but Christian teachings altogether. If she keeps talking on my post, I'm kinda led to believe she's somewhat knowledgeable. And didn't I say I only wanted to talk to knowledgeable Christians? And didn't I ask her not to reply on my Post if she has nothing Bible related to contribute?

If she is confident in her convictions, I'd like to see if she's considered some things I've seem as detrimental in that Religion as far as doctrines.

Normally on sites, Moderators stay in the background--quiet.

Am I trying to prove people aren't saved?

Simply, no.
   

This site isnt the same as other sites, and anyone is allowed to take part here mod or not.   

I am 100% confident in my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ. Its He who I follow and He who I trust.

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #97 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:50:28 »
chosenone,

Sooo, you think it's offensive for people who aren't Christian to ask you directly about Christian things? Are you serious?
   


Ummmm where did I say that ??? ::headscratch:: ::pondering:: ::eek::

Quite the opposite, I believe we should always be ready to talk to anyone about our faith in Jesus Christ. 
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:05:09 by chosenone »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #98 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:54:58 »
MeMyself,

You asked why I want to call her Faith into question. It's not so much her but Christian teachings altogether. If she keeps talking on my post, I'm kinda led to believe she's somewhat knowledgeable. And didn't I say I only wanted to talk to knowledgeable Christians? And didn't I ask her not to reply on my Post if she has nothing Bible related to contribute?

If she is confident in her convictions, I'd like to see if she's considered some things I've seem as detrimental in that Religion as far as doctrines.

Then say that.  That you are calling into question what she has been taught and even her convictions, but to say you call into question her faith is akin to saying that you find hers to be fake or faulty and that DOES violate the board rules here.

Quote
Normally on sites, Moderators stay in the background--quiet.

Well, get used to it, here they are active and welcome part of the board.

Quote
Am I trying to prove people aren't saved?

Simply, no.

Taking your word for it.  Don't see any other reason to call into question someone elses faith. ::shrug::

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #99 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:55:19 »
chosenone,

I would like to call your Faith into question.

This is a violation of the forum rules, as  has already been pointed out.  You are not permitted to call another user's faith into question.  Perhaps you just phrased your comment wrong, but on the surface it is a violation of rule 1.5.

Normally on sites, Moderators stay in the background--quiet.

As you well know, the moderators on this site to do lurk in the background.  They are active participants.  They have been entrusted by the administrator to maintain order and try to keep things from getting heated...or, when things do get heated, to take measures to cool things down a little.

Please go and re-read the rules before coming back to this thread.  I think they will clear up any remaining misunderstandings.

Thank you.

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #100 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 14:59:02 »
Bondservant,

As you can see, I've clarified what I meant by that saying: it's not so much her Faith but more her understanding of Christian doctrines, which is what's been going on the whole time with others.

Her replies about me which are clearly seen are becoming a distraction. So, when I asked a long time that she refrain from this Post, why is it not being respected?

Don't moderators have rules and etiquette to follow as well?

And as far as what moderators do, who's going to moderate the moderator who seems to be the only one on my Post getting heated and agitated?
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:04:57 by Covkeeper34 »

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #101 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:01:27 »
Bondservant,

As you can see, I've clarified what I meant by that say: it's not so much her Faith but more her understanding of Christian doctrines, which is what's been going on the whole time with others.

Her replies about me which are clearly seen are becoming a distraction. So, when I asked a long time that she refrain from this Post, why is it not being respected?


Maybe because anyone is allowed to reply to anyone else? Its not up to any member to dictate who is allowed to take part in a thread, unless its in the men only or women only sections which are specifically for issues that are specific to one or the other sex.   

You know practically nothing of my understanding of Christian doctrines.

However my faith and trust are in Jesus Christ as my Lord and saviour and brother and friend.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:08:30 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #102 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:18:59 »
You said
'If she is confident in her convictions, I'd like to see if she's considered some things I've seem as detrimental in that Religion as far as doctrines. '

How about you list those things and we can all discuss them. Far easier and quicker than going all round the houses and never really getting to the point.

Offline Covkeeper34

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #103 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:25:58 »
I visit Christian sites and Christian FB groups all the time. Which is why I open my Posts the way I do. Because everywhere I go, there's always moderators who think "Moderator" is some form of Spiritual office equal to Pastor where they think they are "Watchers over peoples' souls" and they're not. Moderator is not a spiritual calling.

I get kicked off alot of Christian sites. Sometimes only after an opening post. And I'm going to tell you as God as my witness, 100% of the time, only women have a problem, the guys are cool. The women like to throw around the words: "rude", "mean", "insensitive", "arrogant", etc....This is a constant thing.

The women think that just because they feel sensitively offended, then God must feel the same way as them. God isn't that sensitive and isn't easily moved by what comes out of Man's mouth or how they articulate being that He is the Maker of the mouth.

That's the end of my rant about moderators. I'd like to peacefully continue my talk with RB and Layceers without moderators thinking they can say whatever they want just because they are the moderators.

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Re: After 20yrs....
« Reply #104 on: Tue Dec 01, 2015 - 15:31:07 »
I visit Christian sites and Christian FB groups all the time. Which is why I open my Posts the way I do. Because everywhere I go, there's always moderators who think "Moderator" is some form of Spiritual office equal to Pastor where they think they are "Watchers over peoples' souls" and they're not. Moderator is not a spiritual calling.

Rude.  Not very mature either.  That is NOT what is going on here. Sorry you don't like how things work here, maybe find someplace else to post?

Quote
I get kicked off alot of Christian sites. Sometimes only after an opening post. And I'm going to tell you as God as my witness, 100% of the time, only women have a problem, the guys are cool. The women like to throw around the words: "rude", "mean", "insensitive", "arrogant", etc....This is a constant thing.

If the shoe fits...

Quote
The women think that just because they feel sensitively offended, then God must feel the same way as them. God isn't that sensitive and isn't easily moved by what comes out of Man's mouth or how they articulate being that He is the Maker of the mouth.

That's the end of my rant about moderators. I'd like to peacefully continue my talk with RB and Layceers without moderators thinking they can say whatever they want just because they are the moderators.
Take it to PM then. You can have a nice little chat with just the three of you that way.