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Offline Huldah

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can women preach?
« on: December 11, 2011, 05:22:47 PM »
Jesus is the husband of his bride(church) If we believe that we are one with God, then when we speak within the church it is the husband(Jesus) who speaks through us isn't it? The church is the body of believers and not an actual building.(where three are gathered in my name, there am I also--church?) As christians we are no longer an "I" but a we, with Jesus as the head. God has no respect of persons and can, will and does speak through whom he choses regardless of race, sex or color. Isn't women submit to their husbands an example that all the bride submit to God? Eve was created for Adam as the bride is for the husband.
No respect of persons---Romans 2:11--Colossians 3:11 and 3:25--**Galatians 3:28--Ephesians 6:9--1 Peter 1:17--Genesis 1:27
If everyone is responsible for themselves (own sins) and there is no respect of persons according to God. Then shouldn't all who know the truth be sharing their faith. (preaching and teaching)--There were prophetesses--(higher rank than preacher and teacher) 1 Corinthians--12:28 --and this is a list according to rank.
I know that it says both things in the New Testament--but it's always one person that has said both things--(Paul)--Why?
« Last Edit: December 25, 2011, 09:43:33 AM by JohnDB »

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can women preach?
« on: December 11, 2011, 05:22:47 PM »

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 05:30:43 PM »
Have you ever met Carla Teal?

 ::shrug::

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 05:30:43 PM »

Offline Huldah

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 05:34:39 PM »
I love Joyce Myers. There are still many who think a woman can't think--or speak out within the church. lol

Offline Debbie_55

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 05:55:13 PM »
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

"Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing and ruling His creation

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state. What changed things? In the next few chapters of Genesis, we find that sin entered the heart of Adam and Eve. The result was a temporary curse placed upon both man and woman, which would affect the whole earth.

This curse has affected all aspects of creation, from the ground itself (infested with weeds and thorns) to human relationships. (I say temporary, because in Christ this curse is removed, as we shall see later on).

When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband." However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positional. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment.

Though the complete cleansing of the curse has not yet been manifested on the earth, the day is coming when it will be so. Or to put it another way, all those who receive Jesus as Savior receive restoration as Sons of God, but not all of us walk in that restoration--yet. Through Jesus, the curse upon women has been lifted. Women no longer have to receive pain in childbirth nor are they inferior to man with him ruling over them. Women can now be restored to their original place and plan that God had for all His "sons." Although we do not see all things restored at this time, "legally" in the spiritual realm, they already have been.

Adam was the head of the first race of mankind; and Jesus is the head of the last race, the adopted children of God. God only sees two races--the Adamic race (all natural-born mankind) and His children through Jesus (all those born of the spirit).

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (I Corinthians 15:21-22).

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are no race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Within God's own nature we find these same qualities. Both men and women are to become like Him as we are conformed to His image. Since this is true, there are times that under the unction of the Holy Spirit a woman should assert herself boldly. (This assertion, however, should not necessarily be toward others, but rather toward the enemy, Satan!) For men and women to become overcomers they must have this boldness and authority over the devil. God still desires that His people rule and reign with Him. His intention is to qualify us for that position, whether we be male or female. "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Revelation 1:6).

Even though "kings" is a masculine term, this is the ultimate destination He desires for all of His people. The Lord often uses both male and female terms to refer to both sexes. Women are to live in the "hidden man of the heart" (1 Peter 3:4). Both men and women in the church are referred to as "the bride of Christ." God has both a masculine and feminine nature. The mother heart of Jesus was evident as he prayed over Jerusalem.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37).

Submission is considered to be a feminine trait. However, Jesus submitted to the cross under the direction of the Father. If we walk in the Spirit, we too will possess both the masculine aggressiveness and feminine submissiveness of God.

Both submissiveness and aggressiveness are God-given strengths. Yet, both can be perverted, so that we become submissive and aggressive in the wrong ways, with the wrong attitudes. Because these qualities are so misused and misunderstood by the world, they have become distasteful and despised. If aggression is frowned upon, submission is viewed in an even more negative light in western culture. We equate submission with weakness and lack of spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There was never a human being more submitted to God than Jesus Christ-- yet never was there one as completely resistant to the system of the world! It took extraordinary submissiveness and aggression for Jesus to overcome the world. For the Christian, whether we are male or female, He is our model. We are to possess His qualities and use them according to the needs around us.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive? It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

1 Corinthians 11:5, "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that?
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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 05:55:13 PM »

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 05:57:33 PM »
with regards to the question posed in the title of the OP (and having not read the entire comment simply because I've read them many times before, and I just didn't want to.................)

1)  can fish swim?
2)  can birds fly?
3)  can chickens lay eggs?
4)  can dogs bark?
5)  can cats bug the you know what outta me?

 ::pondering:: ::shrug::

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 05:57:33 PM »



Offline LightHammer

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 05:59:01 PM »
St. Aquilina. St. Agatha.

Common priests of the 4th century Church. Martyred for preaching in the field. So much honor.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 06:00:43 PM »
EDITORIAL COMMENT:

In case anyone misses these threads here in theology, jump over to general discussion, you can get a "re-read" there too!

 ::juggle:: ::disco:: ::baby:: ::help::

Offline Huldah

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 07:23:19 PM »
To Debbie_55---THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU--You have given the very best answers to this question that I have ever encountered.
Yeshua Bless You

Offline Bonnie

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 11:49:20 AM »
No women are not to be preachers.  Paul outlines the roles of woman and men in l Corinthians and he doesn't change his inspired writings somewhere in another book of the bible.
God loves, blesses, saves, etc., all of us without respect of persons but that doesn't mean he wants us to have the same roles in this life.
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

cs80918

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 12:38:08 PM »
I haven't figured this one out yet, but I do enjoy listening to Joyce Meyers, she makes her walk with Christ seem so real.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 04:33:40 PM »
I just accept the Word.

I have often wondered what each of us would believe about a lot of things if we just read the bible for ourselves with the help of God instead of reading scholars, commentaries, etc., and letting them influence us.  Interesting.
Psalms 118:24  "This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it."

cs80918

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 10:34:57 AM »
I just accept the Word.

I have often wondered what each of us would believe about a lot of things if we just read the bible for ourselves with the help of God instead of reading scholars, commentaries, etc., and letting them influence us.  Interesting.

I am a consistent bible reader.  99% of all my christian reading is from the bible.

Its not always easy to understand.  Even praying that the Holy Spirit helps me to understand it.

I take it that a woman should not have authority in teaching men about the bible.  In my opinion it means that a man can chose to listen to a woman or not.

As far as a woman being a bishop/preacher head of a church, I don't agree with that.  I belive that the bible is clear that a woman should not be a bishop.

They can teach and be prophetesses, but are not to be over a church or have authority over men in the church.


Offline John S

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2011, 05:41:01 AM »
The question isn't "Can women preach"?
The question is Will people accept a female preacher?
Why anyone wouldn't seems ridiculous to me. Then again, that's just me.

Offline chosenone

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2011, 07:24:06 AM »
I love Joyce Myers. There are still many who think a woman can't think--or speak out within the church. lol
 

Amen, she is so helpful to me and so many others. My husband and son love to listen to her as well.
In Him I live and move and have my being.

My determined purpose is that I may know Him - that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly."

It is by Grace we have been saved though Faith and not by works so that no one can boast.

Offline chosenone

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2011, 07:28:23 AM »
Can women preach?Can birds fly? Can takeaways make you fat?

 Yes they can, and they do, and many of them are brilliant and annointed teachers. How sad that some refuse to listen to them, they are missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.
In Him I live and move and have my being.

My determined purpose is that I may know Him - that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly."

It is by Grace we have been saved though Faith and not by works so that no one can boast.