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Offline Huldah

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can women preach?
« on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:22:47 »
Jesus is the husband of his bride(church) If we believe that we are one with God, then when we speak within the church it is the husband(Jesus) who speaks through us isn't it? The church is the body of believers and not an actual building.(where three are gathered in my name, there am I also--church?) As christians we are no longer an "I" but a we, with Jesus as the head. God has no respect of persons and can, will and does speak through whom he choses regardless of race, sex or color. Isn't women submit to their husbands an example that all the bride submit to God? Eve was created for Adam as the bride is for the husband.
No respect of persons---Romans 2:11--Colossians 3:11 and 3:25--**Galatians 3:28--Ephesians 6:9--1 Peter 1:17--Genesis 1:27
If everyone is responsible for themselves (own sins) and there is no respect of persons according to God. Then shouldn't all who know the truth be sharing their faith. (preaching and teaching)--There were prophetesses--(higher rank than preacher and teacher) 1 Corinthians--12:28 --and this is a list according to rank.
I know that it says both things in the New Testament--but it's always one person that has said both things--(Paul)--Why?
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 25, 2011 - 10:43:33 by JohnDB »

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can women preach?
« on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:22:47 »

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:30:43 »
Have you ever met Carla Teal?

 ::shrug::

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #1 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:30:43 »

Offline Huldah

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #2 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:34:39 »
I love Joyce Myers. There are still many who think a woman can't think--or speak out within the church. lol

Offline Debbie_55

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:55:13 »
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

"Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing and ruling His creation

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman as they existed in a sinless state. What changed things? In the next few chapters of Genesis, we find that sin entered the heart of Adam and Eve. The result was a temporary curse placed upon both man and woman, which would affect the whole earth.

This curse has affected all aspects of creation, from the ground itself (infested with weeds and thorns) to human relationships. (I say temporary, because in Christ this curse is removed, as we shall see later on).

When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband." However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positional. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment.

Though the complete cleansing of the curse has not yet been manifested on the earth, the day is coming when it will be so. Or to put it another way, all those who receive Jesus as Savior receive restoration as Sons of God, but not all of us walk in that restoration--yet. Through Jesus, the curse upon women has been lifted. Women no longer have to receive pain in childbirth nor are they inferior to man with him ruling over them. Women can now be restored to their original place and plan that God had for all His "sons." Although we do not see all things restored at this time, "legally" in the spiritual realm, they already have been.

Adam was the head of the first race of mankind; and Jesus is the head of the last race, the adopted children of God. God only sees two races--the Adamic race (all natural-born mankind) and His children through Jesus (all those born of the spirit).

"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (I Corinthians 15:21-22).

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are no race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

Within God's own nature we find these same qualities. Both men and women are to become like Him as we are conformed to His image. Since this is true, there are times that under the unction of the Holy Spirit a woman should assert herself boldly. (This assertion, however, should not necessarily be toward others, but rather toward the enemy, Satan!) For men and women to become overcomers they must have this boldness and authority over the devil. God still desires that His people rule and reign with Him. His intention is to qualify us for that position, whether we be male or female. "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (Revelation 1:6).

Even though "kings" is a masculine term, this is the ultimate destination He desires for all of His people. The Lord often uses both male and female terms to refer to both sexes. Women are to live in the "hidden man of the heart" (1 Peter 3:4). Both men and women in the church are referred to as "the bride of Christ." God has both a masculine and feminine nature. The mother heart of Jesus was evident as he prayed over Jerusalem.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!" (Matthew 23:37).

Submission is considered to be a feminine trait. However, Jesus submitted to the cross under the direction of the Father. If we walk in the Spirit, we too will possess both the masculine aggressiveness and feminine submissiveness of God.

Both submissiveness and aggressiveness are God-given strengths. Yet, both can be perverted, so that we become submissive and aggressive in the wrong ways, with the wrong attitudes. Because these qualities are so misused and misunderstood by the world, they have become distasteful and despised. If aggression is frowned upon, submission is viewed in an even more negative light in western culture. We equate submission with weakness and lack of spirit. Nothing could be further from the truth. There was never a human being more submitted to God than Jesus Christ-- yet never was there one as completely resistant to the system of the world! It took extraordinary submissiveness and aggression for Jesus to overcome the world. For the Christian, whether we are male or female, He is our model. We are to possess His qualities and use them according to the needs around us.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law" (1 Corinthians 14:34).

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Timothy 2:11-12).

In these verses, Paul cannot be addressing women who were in the ministry, but rather those in the congregation who were out of order. How do we know this? We have many such proofs, many from Paul himself. Here is a partial list of women who were all in influential positions of leadership in the early church.

Pheobe (Romans 16:1-2): This woman was a deaconess of the church in Cenchrea, who was beloved of Paul and many other Christians for the help she gave to them. She filled an important position of leadership. It would be a difficult stretch of the imagination to say that this woman fulfilled her duties without ever speaking in the church!

Priscilla (Acts 18:26): Priscilla and her husband Aquila are often mentioned with great respect by Paul. Together they were pastors of a church in Ephesus, and were responsible for teaching the full gospel to Apollos. We are informed that they both taught Apollos, and pastored the church together. In fact, Priscilla is sometimes listed ahead of Aquila when their names come up. This has led some to speculate that of the two, she was the primary teacher and her husband oversaw the ministry. At any rate, we see here a woman in a very prominent position of teaching and pastoring. (Other references to Priscilla and Aquila are Acts 18:2, 18; Romans 16:3, and I Corinthians 16:19).

Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3): Here we see reference to two women who were "true yokefellow" and who labored with Paul in the advancement of the gospel.

Junia (Romans 16:7): In this verse we see Paul sending greetings to Andronicus and Junia, his "fellow-prisoners" who are of note among the apostles. Junia is a woman's name. In some modern translations, an "s" has been added (Junias) because the translators were so sure a woman could not be an apostle, that they assumed a copyist has accidentally dropped the "s." However the proper male ending would have been "ius," not "ias." No church commentator earlier than the Middle Ages questioned that Junia was both a woman and an apostle.

Though there were other women throughout the Bible in positions of leadership, such as prophetesses, evangelists, judges, leaders, etc., the above references should be enough to establish that women were indeed a vital and normal part of church leadership. Paul expected women to speak in the church, or else why would he have given the following directive? It would have been useless to give directions for women who were speaking in the church, if they were never allowed to do so.

1 Corinthians 11:5, "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."

Furthermore, if Paul believed that all women should never teach or speak in church, why does he commend many women who did just that?

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:55:13 »

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:57:33 »
with regards to the question posed in the title of the OP (and having not read the entire comment simply because I've read them many times before, and I just didn't want to.................)

1)  can fish swim?
2)  can birds fly?
3)  can chickens lay eggs?
4)  can dogs bark?
5)  can cats bug the you know what outta me?

 ::pondering:: ::shrug::

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:57:33 »



Offline LightHammer

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 18:59:01 »
St. Aquilina. St. Agatha.

Common priests of the 4th century Church. Martyred for preaching in the field. So much honor.

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 19:00:43 »
EDITORIAL COMMENT:

In case anyone misses these threads here in theology, jump over to general discussion, you can get a "re-read" there too!

 ::juggle:: ::disco:: ::baby:: ::help::

Offline Huldah

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #7 on: Sun Dec 11, 2011 - 20:23:19 »
To Debbie_55---THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU--You have given the very best answers to this question that I have ever encountered.
Yeshua Bless You

Offline Bonnie

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #8 on: Tue Dec 13, 2011 - 12:49:20 »
No women are not to be preachers.  Paul outlines the roles of woman and men in l Corinthians and he doesn't change his inspired writings somewhere in another book of the bible.
God loves, blesses, saves, etc., all of us without respect of persons but that doesn't mean he wants us to have the same roles in this life.

cs80918

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #9 on: Tue Dec 13, 2011 - 13:38:08 »
I haven't figured this one out yet, but I do enjoy listening to Joyce Meyers, she makes her walk with Christ seem so real.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #10 on: Tue Dec 13, 2011 - 17:33:40 »
I just accept the Word.

I have often wondered what each of us would believe about a lot of things if we just read the bible for ourselves with the help of God instead of reading scholars, commentaries, etc., and letting them influence us.  Interesting.

cs80918

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #11 on: Wed Dec 14, 2011 - 11:34:57 »
I just accept the Word.

I have often wondered what each of us would believe about a lot of things if we just read the bible for ourselves with the help of God instead of reading scholars, commentaries, etc., and letting them influence us.  Interesting.

I am a consistent bible reader.  99% of all my christian reading is from the bible.

Its not always easy to understand.  Even praying that the Holy Spirit helps me to understand it.

I take it that a woman should not have authority in teaching men about the bible.  In my opinion it means that a man can chose to listen to a woman or not.

As far as a woman being a bishop/preacher head of a church, I don't agree with that.  I belive that the bible is clear that a woman should not be a bishop.

They can teach and be prophetesses, but are not to be over a church or have authority over men in the church.


Offline John S

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #12 on: Thu Dec 15, 2011 - 06:41:01 »
The question isn't "Can women preach"?
The question is Will people accept a female preacher?
Why anyone wouldn't seems ridiculous to me. Then again, that's just me.

Offline chosenone

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #13 on: Thu Dec 15, 2011 - 08:24:06 »
I love Joyce Myers. There are still many who think a woman can't think--or speak out within the church. lol
 

Amen, she is so helpful to me and so many others. My husband and son love to listen to her as well.

Offline chosenone

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #14 on: Thu Dec 15, 2011 - 08:28:23 »
Can women preach?Can birds fly? Can takeaways make you fat?

 Yes they can, and they do, and many of them are brilliant and annointed teachers. How sad that some refuse to listen to them, they are missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #15 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 10:19:22 »
Can women preach?Can birds fly? Can takeaways make you fat?

 Yes they can, and they do, and many of them are brilliant and annointed teachers. How sad that some refuse to listen to them, they are missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.

 ::smile:: ::amen!::

Kaleel

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #16 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 10:49:54 »
Can women preach?Can birds fly? Can takeaways make you fat?

 Yes they can, and they do, and many of them are brilliant and annointed teachers. How sad that some refuse to listen to them, they are missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.

 ::smile:: ::amen!::

 ::frown::

Regardless of whatever someone believes about women preaching, they aren't missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.  100% of what God wants to yacht us through hearing someone preach is found in God's Word.

Offline DaveW

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #17 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 10:56:05 »
Quote
100% of what God wants to yacht us through hearing someone preach is found in God's Word.
That is SOOOOOO unrelational and ignores the fact that God has put teachers in the church (Eph 4)

We are not supposed to just get it all individually from the bible.

Kaleel

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #18 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 10:59:47 »
Quote
100% of what God wants to yacht us through hearing someone preach is found in God's Word.
That is SOOOOOO unrelational and ignores the fact that God has put teachers in the church (Eph 4)

We are not supposed to just get it all individually from the bible.

I never said anything about "get it all individually from the bible."

Offline DaveW

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #19 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 11:01:44 »
That is certainly what I get from that phrase.

Kaleel

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #20 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 11:04:31 »
That is certainly what I get from that phrase.

It was not my intention.  For the record, I do not believe females should be preachers/elders/pastors.

p.rehbein

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #21 on: Tue Dec 20, 2011 - 16:45:00 »
Can women preach?Can birds fly? Can takeaways make you fat?

 Yes they can, and they do, and many of them are brilliant and annointed teachers. How sad that some refuse to listen to them, they are missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.

 ::smile:: ::amen!::

 ::frown::

Regardless of whatever someone believes about women preaching, they aren't missing out on 50% of what God wants to teach them.  100% of what God wants to yacht us through hearing someone preach is found in God's Word.

uh.............methinks you missed the point with regards to chosen's comment............  ::smile::

Offline chosenone

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #22 on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 16:44:05 »
Quote
100% of what God wants to yacht us through hearing someone preach is found in God's Word.
That is SOOOOOO unrelational and ignores the fact that God has put teachers in the church (Eph 4)

We are not supposed to just get it all individually from the bible.

  Amen

Offline chosenone

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #23 on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 16:49:19 »
That is certainly what I get from that phrase.

It was not my intention.  For the record, I do not believe females should be preachers/elders/pastors.

  A woman teaching is very different from a woman leading a congregation.

There are so many annointed female teachers who have so much to offer, how sad that some people wont listen to them. They bring an all round richness and balance to the overall teaching that God wants us to have. The teacher who has helped my husband and I and my adult son more than any other is female.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #24 on: Sun Jan 15, 2012 - 18:22:52 »
What part of Eph 4 are you referring to?

Offline markedward

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Re: CAN WOMEN PREACH?
« Reply #25 on: Mon Jan 16, 2012 - 01:49:44 »
Quote from: Bonnie
No women are not to be preachers.
Paul wrote the epistle to the Romans, correct?

Paul himself did not deliver the letter, though.

He assigned someone else to deliver the letter on his behalf.

Whoever delivered the letter would have been the one to read it to the church in Rome, to whom Paul was writing.

The Roman church members would surely have had questions about things Paul had said in the letter. In that case, only the person who delivered the letter could possibly have answered those questions, since that person had been with Paul when the letter was written, and had received it from Paul in order to deliver it.

In other words, when Paul's letter to the Romans was written, he entrusted the letter to a particular person, and made sure that person knew the contents and was able to teach the Romans about any parts of the letter they might have needed clarification about.

Who was it that delivered the letter, and hence must have been able to teach from it? (See Romans 16.1-2.)

Offline markedward

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #26 on: Mon Jan 16, 2012 - 01:53:07 »
Something else to consider:

The Greek word for 'preach' means 'to proclaim'. A 'preacher' is a 'proclaimer'. And what was it that Jesus and the Apostles told people they were to 'proclaim'?

The gospel of the kingdom.

Can anyone honestly say that women are forbidden from preaching/proclaiming the gospel? God forbids women from preaching/proclaiming 'Jesus is Lord, and he has conquered sin and death'?

Offline Bonnie

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #27 on: Mon Jan 16, 2012 - 05:33:16 »
Paul wrote the letter to teach Timothy the gospel way of conducting church services.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #28 on: Mon Jan 16, 2012 - 05:37:23 »
Surely you know that witnessing and preaching are not done in the same way. We all need to witness to people who are lost the good news. I witnessed to my neighbor the other day but I didn't preach to a congregation of people.
I think you are mincing words.

Offline markedward

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #29 on: Mon Jan 16, 2012 - 14:27:21 »
Just basing it from the definition of the words used in Scripture.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #30 on: Tue Jan 17, 2012 - 07:05:58 »
I don't follow your line of thought at all.

Here's the scripture:

l Timothy 8 - I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array.
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Offline chosenone

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #31 on: Tue Jan 17, 2012 - 07:51:40 »
Paul wrote the letter to teach Timothy the gospel way of conducting church services.


Sadly I am not allowed to listen to women teach in my church because they dont allow it, but my husband and I get to hear women teach in lots of other ways such as on tv and on cds and in other places that we go to.

Offline Bonnie

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #32 on: Tue Jan 17, 2012 - 08:21:22 »
Either you believe the Word of God or you don't.  I'm sure women can do a good job but without God's blessings for he won't go against his own Word.  If he won't permit a women to teach he surely won't call them to preach; for a preacher must be apt to teach.

larry2

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #33 on: Tue Jan 17, 2012 - 16:48:46 »

A good read on the subject. Phoebe - Woman's Official Place

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/phoebe-woman's-official-place/

Offline chosenone

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Re: can women preach?
« Reply #34 on: Tue Jan 17, 2012 - 17:38:21 »
Either you believe the Word of God or you don't.  I'm sure women can do a good job but without God's blessings for he won't go against his own Word.  If he won't permit a women to teach he surely won't call them to preach; for a preacher must be apt to teach.

  If you look at what the word of God says as a whole, so that you get a balance, you will see many times when he used women in all sorts of leading positions and ways. In Christ there is no male of female.
The women that I hear are all very anointed and God clearly called then to teach.

 

     
anything