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p.rehbein

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Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« on: August 11, 2011, 09:49:50 AM »
Some time ago I was involved in a discussion concerning dichotomy vs. trichotomy.  It was an interesting discussion and I don't remember seeing such a discussion here on Grace Centered.  It is necessary to state that I am in the "trichotomy" camp of believers, that being that I believe man is of three parts:  body, soul, spirit.  Many will and do disagree with me/this idea and that's fine.  I am not suggesting that everyone must believe as I do.  This is what I believe and some information as to why I do.

First, I would offer a little historical prespective concerning Trichotomy.  Much of the information I offer comes from the Pamphlet by Brent Harris titled "Body, Soul, Spirit."  A historical snapshot of Trichotomy:
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THE HISTORY OF TRICHOTOMY
Most Biblical scholars in the early church saw man as a threefold (trichotomous) being. Even as late as Augustine (A.D. 354-430), the common view was that man was trichotomous - that he possessed a body, a soul, and a spirit. The words of Augustine substantiate this fact very plainly when he wrote in Faith and Creed:
"... there are three things of which man consists - namely spirit, soul, and body ..." [Faith and the Creed (XX:23)].
But as Latin Theology (i.e., Roman Catholicism) began to take hold, most theologians abandoned trichotomy and began to see man as simply a two-fold being of soul and body (with spirit being just another name for the soul). This idea, known as dichotomy, continued as the majority opinion down through the centuries and still is the common view held by the Roman Catholic Church and most of the Protestant churches that came out of the Reformation (i.e., the Dutch Reformed, the Lutheran, the Episcopalian, the Presbyterian, etc.) - all of which, interestingly enough, hold to a post-millennial approach to eschatology [i.e., that the church must take control of the world before Christ can return (more about this later)]. It is interesting to note in this connection, however, that Martin Luther, the father (so to speak) of the Reformation, championed the view that man was trichotomous.
THE PLYMOUTH BRETHREN
It wasn't until the rise of evangelicalism in the 1800s [and most especially, the Plymouth Brethren, the group which is looked upon by most church historians as the parent body out from which evangelicalism sprang] and John Nelson Darby that trichotomy once again revived - and it's worth noting in this connection that along with a revived view of man as a trichotomous being, pre-millennialism also revived. Darby's teachings were popularized and gained wide acceptance and public acclaim in conservative church bodies throughout most of the 20th century. But with the rise of the modern ecumenical movement - i.e., the political movement of Protestant and Catholic bodies together to "take the nation back for Christ and the church" - post-millennialism (which "politicizing" promotes) resurfaced along with dichotomy - which post-millennialism of necessity encourages.
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Some Scriptures revealing soul and spirit:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
•   "The spirit (Heb. - ne shamah) of man is the lamp of the Lord." (Prov. 20:27)
•   "The spirit (Gk. - pneuma) indeed is willing ..." (Matt. 26:41)
•   "Jesus perceiving in his spirit (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (Mark 2:8)
•   "He sighed deeply in his spirit (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (Mark 8:12)
•   "My spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (Luke 1:47)
•   "He was deeply moved in spirit (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (John 11:33)
•   "Being fervent is spirit (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (Acts 18:25)
•   "I am going to Jerusalem, bound in the spirit (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (Acts 20:22)
•   "Whom I serve in my spirit (Gk. - pneuma)." (Rom. 1:9 NASB)
•   "The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit (Gk. - pneuma) ..." (Rom. 8:15)
•   "What man knoweth the things of a man except the spirit (Gk. - pneuma) of man which is in him." (I Cor 2:11)
•   "They refreshed my spirit (Gk. - pneuma) as well as yours." (I Cor. 16:18)
•   "His spirit (Gk. - pneuma) was refreshed by you all." (2 Cor. 7:13)
•   "The Lord Jesus be with your spirit (Gk. - pneuma)." (2 Tim. 4:22)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why are you cast down, O my soul (Heb. - nephesh)." (Ps. 42:5)
2.   "My soul (Gk. - psuche) is very sorrowful." (Matt. 26:38)
3.   "My soul (Gk. - psuche) doth magnify the Lord." (Luke 1:46)
4.   "Now is my soul (Gk. - psuche) troubled." (John 12:27)
5.   "... were of one heart and soul (Gk. - psuche) ..." (Acts 4:32)
6.   "I call for a record upon my soul (Gk. - psuche) ." (2 Cor. 1:23)
7.   "For they watch for your souls (Gk. - psuche) ." (Heb. 13:17)
8.   "Seeing you have purified your souls (Gk. - psuche) ." (I Pet. 1:22)
9.   "Which war against your soul (Gk. - psuche) ." (I Pet. 2:11)
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I will post more, but this is a good start I believe.  I am posting this here in Non-Traditional Theology because I also believe in the Holy Trinity and I am convinced if we are able to understand the beliefs of dichotomy vs. the beliefs of trichotomy, it will help us to understand why some believe in God the Father and Jesus and some believe in the Holy Trinity.



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Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« on: August 11, 2011, 09:49:50 AM »

daq

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 11:37:22 AM »
Adam did not receive "ruwach"-Spirit but rather became a "chay nephesh" (living soul). Simply taking one of the Scripture references from your post shows that "spirit" is transient in nature because "the spirit of man" is "the spirit of the world" according to what Paul actually writes in context:

1 Corinthians 2:11-12 KJV
11.  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12.  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


The truth is that "the spirit of man" must needs to be cast out, (sent away - GSN#863 "aphiemi") before the Spirit of YHWH 'Adonay will dwell within the vessels of his creation.
  ::smile::

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 11:37:22 AM »

p.rehbein

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 01:14:34 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts daq.  However you mention both spirit and soul which still leaves us with body, soul, spirit. 

In his pamphlet Brent Harris wrote:

LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE

It should be noted in this connection that the Hebrew word for spirit is ne shamah which means "wind," and the Hebrew word for soul is nephesh which means a "living (thinking) being." They are two totally different words, and mean two totally different things. In addition, the Greek word for spirit is pneuma which means "breeze," and the Greek word for soul is psuche, which - like the Hebrew word, nephesh - means a "living (thinking) being." Again, they are two totally different words, and mean two totally different things.

In addition, the Hebrew word for spirit, ne shamah ("wind"), corresponds to the Greek word for spirit, pneuma ("breeze"), while the Hebrew word for soul, nephesh ("living (thinking) being") corresponds to the Greek word, psuche (also "living (thinking) being").
Finally, the fact that the soul and spirit of man are two different things is made absolutely apparent by Hebrews 4:12 where the Bible speaks of separating the two into two distinct entities:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

Thus, when God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him ..." (Gen. 1:26-27) what is meant here is that God made man a three-part being. Since God is a three-part being (i.e., He is triune), He created man a three-part being - body, soul and spirit.
------------------------------------------

Please remember, I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe as I do, nor is my intent to provoke anyone in any way.  I'm simply explaining what I believe and why.  It is FYI and not intended to be a hammer to beat people over the head with. 

daq

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 01:53:22 PM »
Bold-red emphasis mine:

Thanks for the thoughts daq.  However you mention both spirit and soul which still leaves us with body, soul, spirit.  

In his pamphlet Brent Harris wrote:

LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE

It should be noted in this connection that the Hebrew word for spirit is ne shamah which means "wind," and the Hebrew word for soul is nephesh which means a "living (thinking) being." They are two totally different words, and mean two totally different things. In addition, the Greek word for spirit is pneuma which means "breeze," and the Greek word for soul is psuche, which - like the Hebrew word, nephesh - means a "living (thinking) being." Again, they are two totally different words, and mean two totally different things.

In addition, the Hebrew word for spirit, ne shamah ("wind"), corresponds to the Greek word for spirit, pneuma ("breeze"), while the Hebrew word for soul, nephesh ("living (thinking) being") corresponds to the Greek word, psuche (also "living (thinking) being").
Finally, the fact that the soul and spirit of man are two different things is made absolutely apparent by Hebrews 4:12 where the Bible speaks of separating the two into two distinct entities:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

Thus, when God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him ..." (Gen. 1:26-27) what is meant here is that God made man a three-part being. Since God is a three-part being (i.e., He is triune), He created man a three-part being - body, soul and spirit.
------------------------------------------

Please remember, I'm not trying to convince anyone to believe as I do, nor is my intent to provoke anyone in any way.  I'm simply explaining what I believe and why.  It is FYI and not intended to be a hammer to beat people over the head with.  



Nay, but see the problem is the promoting of an error because, (apparently) it happens to agree with the teachings of modern psychology, (and yet modern psychology does not even acknowledge the possibility of spirit "devils" or "demons"). In another thread "gospel" just repeated the same old mantra that this is an "endless debate" and that no one can really prove their side one way or the other. However, the only ones for whom it is an "endless debate" are those who do not want to allow themselves to see the possibility of the truth with an open, New Testament-oriented, mindset. The portion of your quote in bold-red emphasis above is simply an outright misrepresentation if not a lie: HSN#5397 "neshamah" is found a mere 24 times and 17 of those occurences it is translated in the King James AV as "breath" (not "spirit-wind" which is HSN#7307 "ruwach").

Strong's Hebrew Definition for #05397
05397 // hmvn // n@shamah // nesh-aw-maw' //
from 05395 ; TWOT - 1433a; n f
AV - breath 17, blast 3, spirit 2, inspiration 1, souls 1; 24
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=hebrew&stnm=05397

Original Strong's Ref. #5590
Romanized  psuche
Pronounced psoo-khay'
from GSN5594; breath, i.e. (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from GSN4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from GSN2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew HSN5315, HSN7307 and HSN2416):
KJV--heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.

According to the Original Strong's Def. of GSN#5590:
GSN#4151 Pneuma (Spirit-Wind) = HSN#7307 Ruwach (Spirit-Wind)
GSN#5590 Psuche (Soul) = HSN#5315 Nephesh (Soul)
GSN#2222 Zoe (Life) = HSN#2416 Chay (Life)

And although the actual Strong's Definition itself is misleading; still the corresponding Hebrew and Greek words, as stated in the definition quoted here, are EXACT in their usage in the corresponding Hebrew and Greek texts. This can be proven over, and over, and over, and again. Pages and pages of this thread or any other thread can be laid out showing that what the Strong's Definition states herein above is tried and true. I will however bother you no more with the correct definitions here because your mind is apparently already made up as to what you would like to teach everyone.  ::smile::


Re: The Holy Spirit is The Father (Replies 17-29)
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2011, 11:48:28 PM »

::priest::  ::The B-I-B-L-E, yes that's th
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 01:17:53 PM by daq »

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 01:53:22 PM »

p.rehbein

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 05:10:19 PM »
Thanks for your comments daq, but let me say that your last sentence was incorrect completely, but I supose your mind is made up as to what I think.  I have stated again and again that I am simply stating what I believe and why and I do not expect anyone to agree with me.  I am NOT TEACHING anyone.  Sorry that you have to make that assumption/assertion.  It was unnecessary and incorrect.

You accept one translation as the only true translation and seem determined that all others must be wrong.  I disagree with that.  I have seen these same translations over and over again in several writings, just as I have seen the other side of the argument.  However, translation aside, I have not seen anything here posted by you to support the idea of dichotomy or to disprove the idea of trichotomy. 

Consider this statement by Harris:

BEHOLDING AND REFLECTING THE LORD

It is in our spirits where the consciousness of God is found. Some have said that:
•   Our spirit is where we are conscious of God.
•   Our soul is where we are conscious of self.
•   Our bodies are where we are conscious of the physical world of the senses.

Sanctification means bringing our soul into submission to our spirit which is beholding and reflecting God. When we do this, we reflect God to the world. This is what Paul meant when he said that

"... we all, with open face beholding as in a glass [mirror] the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." (2 Cor. 3:18)

This is what true godliness is all about. It's not about learning formulas from "how to" books promoted by "Christian" psychologists and counselors on how to have a good marriage, to be a loving father or wife, to be a caring parent, etc. It's about beholding God in our spirit and reflecting Him through our soul to the world which surrounds us. Our need isn't for more books and seminars, our need is to behold the Lord in our spirit and reflect Him to those who touch us in our daily lives. When we do this, we will automatically be a loving father or mother, because He is a loving father or mother; we will automatically be a loving husband or wife because He is a loving husband or wife; we will automatically be a caring parent because He is a caring parent. This is exactly the practice of our Lord insofar as His walk with the Father is concerned. Jesus said,

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

An honest and respectful presentation of one side of a discussion should be and deserves to be answered by an honest and respectful presentation of the other side.  In this way, both sides are presented and those who read the comments can determin the merrits of both and decide for themselves which they believe/support.  This is what "civil discourse" is supose to be and this is what I wish was the STANDARD here on Grace Centered.

Again, thanks for your comments.............God bless you and yours.
 

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 05:10:19 PM »



Offline gospel

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 05:12:28 PM »
Quote
"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

Thus, when God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him ..." (Gen. 1:26-27) what is meant here is that God made man a three-part being. Since God is a three-part being (i.e., He is triune), He created man a three-part being - body, soul and spirit.

Absolutely exquisite!

Thanks for posting this well thought out study

Not only is your analysis of the scripture unsurpassed, I found the historical background quite revealing

For I am often quite amused of how many Protestants adhere to doctrines that are merely layovers from early Roman Catholic influences

Encore, Encore!!!

In addition I would add that Jesus said "God is a Spirit"....( John 4:24 )

As I understand the bible like begats like, each according to its kind so....

To be made in The image of God, it follows that we be likewise..... spirits!

Especially as the scripture has said God is the Father of spirits ( Hebrews 12:9 )

Nevertheless this was an excellent presentation I must say

Needless to say

I am quite impressed!

Glory to God in the Highest!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 05:27:07 PM by gospel »

p.rehbein

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 05:17:48 PM »
Gospel, have no fear, I do not deserve the credit for this study...............  ::smile::

Brent Harris who is the Author of the Pamphlet "Body, Soul, Spirit" deserves all the credit.  I have found him to have an excellent grasp on Scriptures and enjoy reading his works.  Still, for a second it was nice to accept your congradulations, however, sigh, I am so very undeserving.............

God bless....................


Offline gospel

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2011, 05:19:15 PM »
Quote
I am NOT TEACHING anyone.  Sorry that you have to make that assumption/assertion.  It was unnecessary and incorrect.

The term for what he is doing through that assumption is called projection. He's projecting on to you what he himself fancies of himself

Don't feel bad, he's done the same towards me, as if we're competing for board space or even worse yet, the hearts and minds of the forum members and visitors  ::frown::

Quote
It is in our spirits where the consciousness of God is found. Some have said that:
•   Our spirit is where we are conscious of God.
•   Our soul is where we are conscious of self.
•   Our bodies are where we are conscious of the physical world of the senses.  

Now that was extremely well stated and having said that I'm just going to enjoy the rest of this exchange...please carry on, whilst I snuggle up with a little snack  ::eatingpopcorn:



Offline gospel

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2011, 05:24:00 PM »
Gospel, have no fear, I do not deserve the credit for this study...............  ::smile::

Brent Harris who is the Author of the Pamphlet "Body, Soul, Spirit" deserves all the credit.  I have found him to have an excellent grasp on Scriptures and enjoy reading his works.  Still, for a second it was nice to accept your congradulations, however, sigh, I am so very undeserving.............

God bless....................



At any rate you deserve the credit for sharing with us out of what you have received and presenting it so well

Thanks for the tip!

I will definitely purchase a copy asap to add to my collection

Now....where was I?

Oh yea!  ::eatingpopcorn:

p.rehbein

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2011, 05:52:14 PM »
First, I want to state again that I did not start this thread with the idea of changing anyone's mind or trying to put anyone down.  I simply thought this would be a good discussion and I do not remember seeing a discussion concerning dichotomy vs. trichotomy on Grace Centered before.

As well, I want to say what got me interested in the study of this is that we are told in Scripture that we were created in God's image.  I remember growing up that many of the people in my Church believed in dichotomy and I always wondered why but was really not mature enough to research it for myself.  However, as I began to grow in Christ and study the Word of God, I quickly found that I could easily accept that we (man) were triune beings.  And why not?  God is a triune God:  God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.  So if He created us in His image, why would it not make sense that He would create us as triune beings?  That would be His image would it not.

Anyway, that is how I got into this study and my ONLY INTENT here was to present a Subject Study that I had not before seen and thought some would enjoy.  I do not expect anyone to believe as I do, and I do not wish to try and show anyone up,  It's simply a sharing of the Word of God and the opportunity to have both sides of a debate expressed for all to read and consider.

Now, I fully understand that those who do not believe in the Holy Trinity to disagree that we would be created as triune beings, and that's ok with me.  Folks deserve to have their views expressed and their case stated and that is how civil discours works.  In truth, I fully expected that it would be those of either the Protestant Churches or Catholic Church who would represent the dichotomy side of the debate.  I believe there are still many Protestants who believe in dichotomy, and I can't speak for the Catholic Church, but I believe at one time in their history they were believers in dichotomy.  Now all of this may have changed and that would be great.  Still, these were the areas where I thought the debate would come from.
------------------------------------------------------

To continue the debate, consider what Harris had to say in reference to Soul and Spirit:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SOUL AND SPIRIT
It is important to understand the difference between our soul and spirit because it is in our spirit where we are cognizant of God and where He speaks to us through the Holy Spirit. It is the spirit where our fellowship with God begins. It is in our own spirit where we must worship God. This is why Jesus said,

"God is a Spirit (meaning the Holy Spirit): and they that worship him must worship him in spirit (meaning man's spirit) and in truth." (John 4:24)

Our spirit is deeper than our soul. It's deeper than our random thoughts. It's deeper than our outward emotions which we might project to others. It's a place to which we can retreat and always find happiness and joy in Christ - regardless of our outward circumstances. This is what Paul was talking about in II Cor. 6:10 when he said that as a servant of Christ he was "sorrowful, yet always rejoicing" - sorrowful in his soul due to the trying circumstances which surrounded him - but always rejoicing in his spirit where he had fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul puts it this way in II Cor. 4:8:

"... we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed." (II Cor. 4:8)

Nothing could shake Paul from his deep, abiding trust and peace that was his experience down deep in his spirit - although outwardly, in his soul, he was often bewildered and distressed. Some have likened it to a storm raging on the ocean; but if we go down beneath the waves we find rest and peace. How often we forget, and try to ride out the storm on the surface (in our soul) where the raging waves of confusion and fear predominate, instead of trusting Christ in our spirits.
It's in our spirits where "the peace that passes all understanding" is to be found (Phil. 4:7) - the peace which is ours because Christ dwells there. It was in our spirit where we first met God when the Holy Spirit convicted us of our sin. Wasn't it glorious when we first came to know Christ? It might not have made sense in our mind or soul, but down deep inside we knew the gospel was true and that we needed a Savior. That was God speaking to us in our spirit.
---------------------------------------

Thank all of you who took the time to read these comments and feel free to add your own regardless of which side you are on.

God bless........................

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2011, 06:05:15 PM »
Quote
However, as I began to grow in Christ and study the Word of God, I quickly found that I could easily accept that we (man) were triune beings.  And why not?  God is a triune God:  God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost.  So if He created us in His image, why would it not make sense that He would create us as triune beings?  That would be His image would it not.

Accordingly it is God who also gave us

3 Dimensional perception, of a 3 Dimensional realm, and the 3 Dimensional concepts of space and time to go along with it

Quote
First, I want to state again that I did not start this thread with the idea of changing anyone's mind or trying to put anyone down.  I simply thought this would be a good discussion and I do not remember seeing a discussion concerning dichotomy vs. trichotomy on Grace Centered before.

Anyway I get the point of your post and will refrain from making comments that propagate the atmosphere of hostility in the thread, for I don't like it when it's done to me...so I apologize for instigating that tenor and tone into this discussion

Your points were so well made made I just got a little over excited is all

I still intend to snack and enjoy though

Nothing adversarial about that

 ::eatingpopcorn:

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2011, 08:27:35 PM »
As nearly as I have been able to tell, the word "soul" (nephesh, psuche) is used differently by different Biblical authors.

For instance, most of the poetic books of the OT use the words spirit and soul in parallelisms to mean exactly the same thing.

Paul, on the other hand, specifically contrasts spirit with soul, drawing a marked difference between the two.

I think it's a matter of the education of the Biblical writers.  They don't all have the same vocabulary, even if they agree in meaning.

Jarrod

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 07:34:13 AM »
Our image.

John 4:24 ESV
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

But you all are saying that God is/was in the beginning flesh and blood, flesh and blood body, soul and Spirit? And that this is the image of us humans.

1 Corinthians 15:50 ESV
I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Flesh (body) is perishable, not eternal. God is Spirit not flesh. When He created man and said our image He nor anyone else in heaven was a flesh and blood body. He is Spirit with soul, we are souls with spirits but bodies are unique to humans. God is One not three.

Romans 8:21 ESV
that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Acts 13:34 ESV
And as for the fact that he raised him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, he has spoken in this way, "'I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.'

He put on corruption for a little while, and took it back off. He was sown perishable and was raised imperishable and so are we if we are in Him and He is in us.

 1 Corinthians 15:52 ESV
in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.


It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being";the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.

{The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven.}

As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, {and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.}  

{Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven
.} -1Cor15

The image of the man of heaven is different from the image of the man of dust! So then the image of the real us is not the man you see the corrupted flesh and blood body which is one of the three that you are counting, but it is the true unseen image of the man of heaven and that image does not include one of the three images that you are counting.

2 Corinthians 3:17 ESV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

1 Kings 8:60 ESV
that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other.

From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.


« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 08:25:34 AM by BornToReign »

Offline gospel

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 11:23:40 AM »
Quote
Our image.

John 4:24 ESV
God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

But you all are saying that God is/was in the beginning flesh and blood, flesh and blood body, soul and Spirit? And that this is the image of us humans.

Huh?

No one is saying that!

God is Spirit, we are spirit beings, who live in a body and have a soul

The Christ,

A Spirit Being inhabited the body of Jesus, the soul was the means of how He interfaced with the world and with the Spirit

The example Jesus gave us is in His Spirit was not in subjugation to His soul or flesh

His soul and thereby His flesh was in total and complete subjugation to His Spirit

In the case of man

The soul of a natural man has no means by which to relate to the things of the Spirit

He relates solely to the world

For the natural man to interface with God

His spirit, the real person within must be renewed by the Holy Spirit

Even after this renewal we all still have to retrain, conform reform our soul

from taking its lead, from the world as it has become so accustomed

After regeneration the soul is not renewed

But NOW has an alternative

It can now interface with his spirit

and relate to and receive information from God

Jesus met Simon

Through fellowship and spending time with Jesus

Peter was awakened

When Jesus referred to Simon he was speaking to his carnal/flesh nature

When Jesus referred to Peter he was speaking to his spirit

Simon was a bending reed, wishy washy

Peter was a rock, solid

Your spirit is who you really are, what God created you to be

Jacob the trickster

is really Israel the prince

I've said too much in my own way and not nearly as well as p.rehbein

So I'll just go back to eating my popcorn and observe
 ::eatingpopcorn:
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 11:34:23 AM by gospel »

p.rehbein

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Re: Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 07:33:21 PM »
I certainly NEVER said that God was "flesh" or ever was.  If anyone reads the comments here they will see that I clearly stated as did the Author Brent Harris that God is a Spirit, so how anyone could ever misconstrue my posts to that extend is beyond me.
 ::shrug:: ::smile::

With regards to the spirit of man, which is what this thread is about/discussing "THE TRIUNE MAN", Brent Harris had this to say.

WHAT IS THE SPIRIT OF MAN?

If, however, man has a spirit which is different from his soul, what is the spirit? The spirit is our "inner man" (Eph. 3:16) - it is that portion of our being which is meant to touch (and commune with) God - so that we:
"May be able to comprehend (understand) ... what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height (of Christ); and to know (His) ... love ... which passeth knowledge, that ... (we) might be filled with all the fullness of God." (Eph. 3:18-19).
The spirit is what Peter refers to as "the hidden person of the heart" (I Pet. 3:4) - and it's precisely this "hidden person of the heart" which differentiates man from the beasts.

Thank you BorntoReign for your comments.............

 ::tippinghat::