Author Topic: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.  (Read 2285 times)

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Offline Believer

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Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 17:32:16 »
Do you believe God wants to heal ALL today. If no why not?
If yes Rock on brother.
 I believe most will say no. If any managed to read what I posted before it was deleted you already know its true. :)

If you didnt I will try and post scripture to back up what I believe,
I know from past experaince that giving testiomoys is a comoplete waste of my time if you dont believe.
So lets have a go and see what we actully believe as Christains.

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Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 17:32:16 »

Offline Tiny Sparrow

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #1 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 17:39:52 »
No.
If he did, being he's omnipotent, he would. And being omniscient, knowing that all god's people worship besides himself are false gods, the one certain way to convert the world to his righteousness would be a global or blanket healing of all who are sick, infirm, dying.
But that would just reiterate to all people of any faith including Christian that "their god" healed.


Offline New Creation

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #2 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 18:11:43 »
No.
If he did, being he's omnipotent, he would. And being omniscient, knowing that all god's people worship besides himself are false gods, the one certain way to convert the world to his righteousness would be a global or blanket healing of all who are sick, infirm, dying.
But that would just reiterate to all people of any faith including Christian that "their god" healed.

I had to read this 3 times before I could understand what exactly you were saying. He's omnipotent therefore, if he did he would?  ??? But it would just "reiterate" do you mean affirm? Including the Christian "their God" healed?

Are people not being healed everyday by OUR God? So basically you think God doesn't want to heal everyone because they would give the credit to their idols. Do you not think that God's love transcends everything else including what us humans think? The cross tells me yes.

Believer, what type of healing are you referring to? Tiny Sparrow believes you are alluding to physical healing only. I feel that God wants to heal every being on this planet and by healing I mean helping them turn away from their sins and turn towards God. Once that is accomplished the real healing (physical and mental) can begin.

Offline JB

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #3 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 18:46:06 »
I believe Dr. Charles Stanley has written a book to help us understand why God allows suffering, "How to Handle Adversity" and I think there is one entitled, "Why Does God Allow Suffering?". He is an excellent expounder of God's word.

Also, another excellent expounder and apologist, Ravi Zacharias, wrote "Why Suffering?"

Both men will probably give you a more immersed-in-God's Word and Spirit answer than any of us could.

Offline Nomad1689

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 19:12:52 »
Do you believe God wants to heal ALL today. If no why not?

If God wanted to heal all, then why are all not healed? Even Timothy suffered from frequent ailments.

1Ti 5:23  (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)


 


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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #4 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 19:12:52 »



Offline chosenone

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #5 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 20:00:39 »
I believe that God is in the healing business and I personally know people who have been completely healed of physical and mental illnesses when they were prayed for, but the fact is that many godly mature believers die early even after loads of prayer and a strong faith, and we often dont know why. I also know that healings are far more common in some parts of the world than others.
A pastor came to my church about 13 or 14  years ago from China, and he said they see healings all the time.

Another thing, is that what is most important is where that person is going after their death. So its far better for anyone to die at 40, say, and be with Him, than live to 90 and go to hell. 

Offline SwordMaster

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #6 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 20:27:41 »
Do you believe God wants to heal ALL today. If no why not?
If yes Rock on brother.
 I believe most will say no. If any managed to read what I posted before it was deleted you already know its true. :)

If you didnt I will try and post scripture to back up what I believe,
I know from past experaince that giving testiomoys is a comoplete waste of my time if you dont believe.
So lets have a go and see what we actully believe as Christains.



I believe that Scripture demonstrates that God wants to heal as many as who will come to Him for healing...but of course, Jesus taught that one must come in faith.

God wants to heal people because healing demonstrates that God is, it gives people hope in God and saving faith in Christ. However, many are not healed because of one or another issue...either they really don't believe they will be healed, or the person praying for them does not have the faith to heal them, or other scenarios.

Then there is also the timing...and who God wants to do the healing. For example, Jesus walked by the crippled man at the Gate Beautiful numerous times in His three year ministry...But God wanted Peter to heal him after the Day of Pentecost. Paul allowed the demon-possessed girl to follow him around crying out after him until he finally got fed-up with the behavior, then he cast the demon out of her...why didn't he do it the very first day? Because God did not want him to do it on the very first day.

We don't always know God's plan concerning people and healing...but in some cases He does not heal someone because of sin (as Paul speaks of in Corinthians and the Communion meal) or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Blessings!


Offline Nomad1689

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #7 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 20:47:40 »
[...]or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Pure Scripture-less speculation. It's too bad that your "30 years of ministry" hasn't taught you to not go beyond what is written, (1 Cor. 4:6). Timothy was a believing Church leader and associate of the Apostle Paul. Maybe you can explain his "frequent ailments."

Offline Alan

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #8 on: Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 21:49:24 »
I don't believe anyone has an accurate explanation for why we have sickness in the world, and when and why God chooses to heal. Possibly the greatest concern is why children are born with diseases such as spinobiphoda, cerebral palsy, etc. I've heard some suggest that the adamic nature children are born with is reflective of their health status, but I have some difficulty with that concept.


I certainly don't believe that God is responsible for sickness in the world, but I'm also not sure if he picks and chooses who and why an individual will be healed.


Perhaps the many instances where people have been healed is through the great faith of the person ministering to the sick, and Jesus being indwelled in that person.

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #9 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 05:27:10 »
What about the lesson with the clay and potter?

The potter makes pots as fast as possible on his wheel.
How tall and thin the pots are is determined by the quality of the clay.  The taller and thinner pots bringing the highest prices.

So a potter always makes the best pots that he can out of the clay he has to work with.

Yeah. ..that should answer your question.

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #10 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 08:31:43 »




Believer, what type of healing are you referring to?  I feel that God wants to heal every being on this planet and by healing I mean helping them turn away from their sins and turn towards God. Once that is accomplished the real healing (physical and mental) can begin.
I had to read sparrow s post times times and I never got it either.
I beleive all healing is already payed for, spirit soul and body. Every thing is paid for already.

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #11 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:03:02 »

If God wanted to heal all, then why are all not healed? Even Timothy suffered from frequent ailments.


23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
For this reason many are sick clear here for you.






1Ti 5:23  (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)



The water is bad and he is prone to sickness hes leaving Paul and its sickesses ( Plurel) hes getting not a sickness. So he should add some wine to the water to stop him getting sick.
Tim was an elder and more than capable of getting the sick healed. Paul couldnet lay hands on him as it was sicknesses he was prone to. Not a sickness he had at that point. Prone to. He was timid, failrly weak, brought up with woman and no man. quite unsure of himself. None of this is walking in boldness like paul . So he had to learn alll that Pual had taught him. Paul walked in devine healing. Timithy had to learn it. ( This is my thoughts on this nothing more.)

Now this is the facts.
 Mark 16:17:18.  17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

Matt 7:7-11

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Matt 8:16-17

16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.


Matt 9:35

35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.


Matt 15:30-31

30 And great multitudes came unto him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus' feet; and he healed them: 31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

Mark 11:22-24

22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Even the |Lords prayer points to Gods will, being that all would be healed.

I can give many more scriptures that points to Gods will of you being healed. You have one scripture. Do you have any other scripture that can back this one up?

Now God doesnt change FACT God says what He does for one He does for all FACT. God has no favourets FACT.

SO if you believe that God doesnt want all healed today have you got any more scripture to back up your claims?

And my personal fav. 

Mark 16:17-18

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

I know these signs follow me. God is awesome.

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #12 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:20:40 »
I believe that God is in the healing business and I personally know people who have been completely healed of physical and mental illnesses when they were prayed for,


 
but the fact is that many godly mature believers die early even after loads of prayer and a strong faith, and we often dont know why. I also know that healings are far more common in some parts of the world than others.

Where I come "but" are devils. You sure they were mature Christians? The corintians had all the gifts working and were second to none and they were carnel? They were not fit for meat, but the had the gifts down. They were only fit for milk, but had the gifts working perfect. But the were carnal milk Christians. SO where does that leave the majoity of the church. Even the ones we would call mature.

So yes Chritians do die early why?


1 Cor 11:23-30.   23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

And an other scripture that. We DO know why it doesnt work. Is our unblief.

19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

A pastor came to my church about 13 or 14  years ago from China, and he said they see healings all the time.

Amen and you can see it all the time to if you walk in it and dont doubt in your heart. Why you heary, cause the heart is the soul and its carnel. You spirit know God perfectly. I see healing more today than I ever did in 21 years. Last two years I saw many healing some instant and some slower. Gods awesome. I love Jesus today. No i mean I really love Jesus today . Its fantastic being a Christian now.

Another thing, is that what is most important is where that person is going after their death. So its far better for anyone to die at 40, say, and be with Him, than live to 90 and go to hell.

And its far better living a full life up to the point were God takes the breath from you, not sickness not satan. And you walk in devine health, and bless many, and lay hands all all that God has before you. These are the works of the sons of God. And that is every believer.

Offline Tiny Sparrow

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #13 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:37:14 »
I didn't realize I was on an international forum wherein English was not a first language. Though it now makes sense why I've read so many posts here that are so poorly worded in written English.
 My apologies. I'll try to make it very simple and again in English because I am not multi-lingual. (speak many languages)

The question in the OP asks us:  Does God want to heal everyone?

No.
If God wanted to heal everyone there would be no sickness. God is Omnipotent (meaning all powerful).  If he wanted to heal the world of what ails all people he could and would.
Being God is Omniscient (knows all things eternally) , he knows that people worship gods other than himself. If he did heal the entire world as the one true God capable of doing that, those people who pray for healing from their false god's, in other words those who are not Christian but pray to be healed, would simply believe that their prayers to their false gods had been answered.

God works all things for his glory. Don't ask why doesn't God heal the world. The world is as he wishes it to be. Maybe that is the case because God wants people to find their way to him, the one true God, when they realize their illness that isn't being healed by prayers to gods other than him they'll seek him out.
Who knows? God tells us his thoughts are not ours. So what are we really arguing here as if we're able to be 'right' about why God does what he does?

I hope that clears it up for you that aren't English speakers. If not, that's as God wills too.  ::smile::

No.
If he did, being he's omnipotent, he would. And being omniscient, knowing that all god's people worship besides himself are false gods, the one certain way to convert the world to his righteousness would be a global or blanket healing of all who are sick, infirm, dying.
But that would just reiterate to all people of any faith including Christian that "their god" healed.

I had to read this 3 times before I could understand what exactly you were saying. He's omnipotent therefore, if he did he would?  ??? But it would just "reiterate" do you mean affirm? Including the Christian "their God" healed?

Are people not being healed everyday by OUR God? So basically you think God doesn't want to heal everyone because they would give the credit to their idols. Do you not think that God's love transcends everything else including what us humans think? The cross tells me yes.

Believer, what type of healing are you referring to? Tiny Sparrow believes you are alluding to physical healing only. I feel that God wants to heal every being on this planet and by healing I mean helping them turn away from their sins and turn towards God. Once that is accomplished the real healing (physical and mental) can begin.

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #14 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:47:58 »

I believe that Scripture demonstrates that God wants to heal as many as who will come to Him for healing.

Amen and stick with this cause its a fact.




..but of course, Jesus taught that one must come in faith.

Woops theres another devil there that "but." If only you stuck with the above part.

No Jesus never taught you must have faith. He did say your faith Healed you.
Did everyone Jesus healed believe in Him NO. Did He ask anyone to prove what they believed No. So that is not true in this case and many other cases.
The issue of blood woamn. She set the paramiters to be healed in. She said if I only just touch His garment. SHe could have said If I just see Him at a distance I will be healed. It would have happened. God will meet you were you are at and the parimiters YOU set. If you say I have canser I will die from it Guess what. You will.
We are to call those things into being that are not or vice versa what ever you want.


God wants to heal people because healing demonstrates that God is, it gives people hope in God and saving faith in Christ. However, many are not healed because of one or another issue...either they really don't believe they will be healed, or the person praying for them does not have the faith to heal them, or other scenarios.


Yes we and our unbelief and our experiances get in the road , and satan will also try very hard to stop any of this kingdom thinking.

Then there is also the timing...and who God wants to do the healing. For example, Jesus walked by the crippled man at the Gate Beautiful numerous times in His three year ministry...But God wanted Peter to heal him after the Day of Pentecost. Paul allowed the demon-possessed girl to follow him around crying out after him until he finally got fed-up with the behavior, then he cast the demon out of her...why didn't he do it the very first day? Because God did not want him to do it on the very first day.
Now this is not scripture, this is adding bro. No were in scripture did it say Jesus passed him numerous times in three years. As for paul and the girl the answer is actully in your own post in black and white. Paul got feed up. Nothing about Gods timming. You have a lot more than most Christians regaurding what God wants man. Thats great. Bless you.
Please continue and healing will follow you if its not already.


We don't always know God's plan concerning people and healing...but in some cases He does not heal someone because of sin (as Paul speaks of in Corinthians and the Communion meal) or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

No sorry again man. Love you bro and can see your heart clear. I know a minister who sttod up and told his congregation hes sorry for telling them a hard gospel. Tears running down his face sorry. I now know this simple gospel that works. Changed his whole life . If you PM me I will give you some absoulutly amazing teachings on this that are so clear and Your heart just burns inside you, like the two on the road.

Any way. Jesus healed ten leapers and only nine comes back. He wants them all healed now. God isnt maybe I will and maybe I wont. Jesus never ever said this. He even said Go and sin no more, Why would He tell them to try and do something only he was capable of? Thats a whole other teaching for another thread I love it . Amen alleluya to the Lamb. Just again that is not scripture. Taking the bread and cup unworthaliy is not to do with sin. It is taking the cup and not believing you healing is paid for and you sin is paid for.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Blessings!

Thank you for your heart Bro Bless you.

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #15 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:49:04 »
[...]or sometimes He knows that a person has returned to Him in their dire need (such as cancer), but He knows that if He heals them they will go back out into the world again. In such a case, God will allow them to die so that He won't lose them again.

Just food for thought from 30 years of ministry.

Pure Scripture-less speculation. It's too bad that your "30 years of ministry" hasn't taught you to not go beyond what is written, (1 Cor. 4:6). Timothy was a believing Church leader and associate of the Apostle Paul. Maybe you can explain his "frequent ailments."

And we really should be all about love bro. comon :)

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #16 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:01:33 »
I don't believe anyone has an accurate explanation for why we have sickness in the world,

Its clear in the bible man. satan came to steal kill and destroy. You know that.





and when and why God chooses to heal.
He dosent heal some and not others. He paid for it all. see above scriptures I quoted.


 
Possibly the greatest concern is why children are born with diseases such as spinobiphoda, cerebral palsy, etc. I've heard some suggest that the adamic nature children are born with is reflective of their health status, but I have some difficulty with that concept.
This is all satan. We are called to lay hands on the sick and restore the kingdom. forget adam and any thing else that not clearly in, the new covanant


I certainly don't believe that God is responsible for sickness in the world, but I'm also not sure if he picks and chooses who and why an individual will be healed.
He doesnt its all paid for . Its our unbelief that gets in the way every time. How amny promises are in scripture for us . Whats God name but God who heals . Its now it s always and its only our unbelife that gets in the way. and all unbelief is sin. He loves you. He always wants whats best for you. I came to give you life more abundent. The church preaches this abundent. "But " (heres a devil again but) they cant tell you were the abundence is. Cause we dont have it look at the state of the church. 41000 denoniations that cant agree with another. Its a shambles. BUt there is a new church rising. Its the sons of God manifesting  walking in spirit teahing in spirit, just like Christ. You are to walk as Christ did. We all say it but look at out sin and say well not me. He looks at your spirirt that is perfect. Heres scripture . Dont you know you will do gtreater things thatn these. Jesus said that.
You are holy santified His rightousness. start believing what God said about YOU.


Perhaps the many instances where people have been healed is through the great faith of the person ministering to the sick, and Jesus being indwelled in that person.

Man Jesus indwells in you always . I am in the Father He is in me. We will make our dwelling IN YOU.
He also says I will never leave you or forsake you. Ever. ever  ever. lol love it. Bless you .

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #17 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:13:42 »
Smith Wigglesworth believed that God wanted to heal everyone.   He prayed for a couple of folk after they were pronounced dead and they began to breath again.   Yet Smith Wigglesworth kept a large glass jar which was full of the kidney stones he had passed throughout his life and kept passing until his death.   God is sovereign and infinite.  When you try to understand Him with your finite minds you are wasting your time and trying to bring Him down to your level.   He deserves our honor and praise even when we have kidney stones.

The claim that it is sin in the life of a believer that precludes healing is one of the greatest lies Satan has ever perpetuated.   Pentecostals, in general, need to repent of this false teaching.   

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #18 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:14:51 »
What about the lesson with the clay and potter?

The potter makes pots as fast as possible on his wheel.
How tall and thin the pots are is determined by the quality of the clay.  The taller and thinner pots bringing the highest prices.

So a potter always makes the best pots that he can out of the clay he has to work with.

Yeah. ..that should answer your question.

What?

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #19 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:16:40 »
I didn't realize I was on an international forum wherein English was not a first language. Though it now makes sense why I've read so many posts here that are so poorly worded in written English.
 My apologies. I'll try to make it very simple and again in English because I am not multi-lingual. (speak many languages)

The question in the OP asks us:  Does God want to heal everyone?

No.
If God wanted to heal everyone there would be no sickness. God is Omnipotent (meaning all powerful).  If he wanted to heal the world of what ails all people he could and would.
Being God is Omniscient (knows all things eternally) , he knows that people worship gods other than himself. If he did heal the entire world as the one true God capable of doing that, those people who pray for healing from their false god's, in other words those who are not Christian but pray to be healed, would simply believe that their prayers to their false gods had been answered.

God works all things for his glory. Don't ask why doesn't God heal the world. The world is as he wishes it to be. Maybe that is the case because God wants people to find their way to him, the one true God, when they realize their illness that isn't being healed by prayers to gods other than him they'll seek him out.
Who knows? God tells us his thoughts are not ours. So what are we really arguing here as if we're able to be 'right' about why God does what he does?

I hope that clears it up for you that aren't English speakers. If not, that's as God wills too.  ::smile::



So this is just your thoughts? Or do you have scripture telling us all you claimed?
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:33:45 by Believer »

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #20 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:31:54 »
Smith Wigglesworth believed that God wanted to heal everyone.   He prayed for a couple of folk after they were pronounced dead and they began to breath again.   Yet Smith Wigglesworth kept a large glass jar which was full of the kidney stones he had passed throughout his life and kept passing until his death. 
Yes and his daughter used to sit at the front with her huge ear trumpet for she was deaf. Smith healed many. and raised far more than two  23. He never walked in devine healing. So he was not healed.



 
God is sovereign and infinite.  When you try to understand Him with your finite minds you are wasting your time and trying to bring Him down to your level.   He deserves our honor and praise even when we have kidney stones.

Well my bible tells me I have the mind of Christ. I dont find God to hard to work out.  God is so constant. And I believe we all know what God deserves. I didnt bring God down to my level He came vouliteraly. And that is why I love Him.

The claim that it is sin in the life of a believer that precludes healing is one of the greatest lies Satan has ever perpetuated.   Pentecostals, in general, need to repent of this false teaching.
Yes and I would say all churches have got something wrong. But He loves us.


All I would say to finnish is you need to back up any thing you say with scripture. Were making cliams that are just not scriptural.

Offline TruthScientist

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #21 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:34:46 »
Do you believe God wants to heal ALL today. If no why not?
If yes Rock on brother.
 I believe most will say no. If any managed to read what I posted before it was deleted you already know its true. :)

If you didnt I will try and post scripture to back up what I believe,
I know from past experaince that giving testiomoys is a comoplete waste of my time if you dont believe.
So lets have a go and see what we actully believe as Christains.

why is there a need for healing?  sin...  any healing without the eradication of sin is temporary at best.

God hates sin and all that comes with it so yes I say He does but His hands are tied with our freewill...  he heals gentiles (Naaman) but is under no obligation to do so...

Offline TruthScientist

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #22 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:37:13 »
Smith Wigglesworth believed that God wanted to heal everyone.   He prayed for a couple of folk after they were pronounced dead and they began to breath again.   Yet Smith Wigglesworth kept a large glass jar which was full of the kidney stones he had passed throughout his life and kept passing until his death.   God is sovereign and infinite.  When you try to understand Him with your finite minds you are wasting your time and trying to bring Him down to your level.   He deserves our honor and praise even when we have kidney stones.

The claim that it is sin in the life of a believer that precludes healing is one of the greatest lies Satan has ever perpetuated.   Pentecostals, in general, need to repent of this false teaching.

what a powerful testimony, kidney stones aggravating him yet he still believed and operated in the power of healing...

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #23 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:42:11 »
I believe that God is in the healing business and I personally know people who have been completely healed of physical and mental illnesses when they were prayed for,


 
but the fact is that many godly mature believers die early even after loads of prayer and a strong faith, and we often dont know why. I also know that healings are far more common in some parts of the world than others.

Where I come "but" are devils. You sure they were mature Christians? The corintians had all the gifts working and were second to none and they were carnel? They were not fit for meat, but the had the gifts down. They were only fit for milk, but had the gifts working perfect. But the were carnal milk Christians. SO where does that leave the majoity of the church. Even the ones we would call mature.

So yes Chritians do die early why?


1 Cor 11:23-30.   23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

And an other scripture that. We DO know why it doesnt work. Is our unblief.

19Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

A pastor came to my church about 13 or 14  years ago from China, and he said they see healings all the time.

Amen and you can see it all the time to if you walk in it and dont doubt in your heart. Why you heary, cause the heart is the soul and its carnel. You spirit know God perfectly. I see healing more today than I ever did in 21 years. Last two years I saw many healing some instant and some slower. Gods awesome. I love Jesus today. No i mean I really love Jesus today . Its fantastic being a Christian now.

Another thing, is that what is most important is where that person is going after their death. So its far better for anyone to die at 40, say, and be with Him, than live to 90 and go to hell.

And its far better living a full life up to the point were God takes the breath from you, not sickness not satan. And you walk in devine health, and bless many, and lay hands all all that God has before you. These are the works of the sons of God. And that is every believer.
 

yes they were very mature godly people who died. They had faith and those who prayed for them had faith.

Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #24 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:50:30 »


why is there a need for healing?  sin...  any healing without the eradication of sin is temporary at best.

God hates sin and all that comes with it so yes I say He does but His hands are tied with our freewill...  he heals gentiles (Naaman) but is under no obligation to do so...

Are you kidding? You look at parents whos kids are fulling up the hospital and you wonder why bother with temperal healing? Would you say that in front of the parents really?
Ask your self why Chrsit healed them ALL. Even though it was temperal. I am almost stumped here with this. So you are the complete opposite of Christ. He healed them ALL because of His compassion. And you think why bother?

And if you knew scripture you would know there both the same to Christ. Whats easier to do heal or forgive. He was talking to pharises I feel Hids pain. But you dont because you dont even feel your neighbours pain. So how you gonna do for them what you would have done for you. When you dont care what they feel? Love God and love your nieghbour. Why bother its temperal. Unbelievable.


Offline Believer

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #25 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:58:22 »


yes they were very mature godly people who died. They had faith and those who prayed for them had faith.

So what does the bible say about faith?

Matthew 21:21.   21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

So what moves the mountian?
Think were all agreed FAITH moves the monutian.

So what if the mountian didnt move?
 Is it God ? Nope. Why not because God is faithfull. all agread here.
Wonder what it could be? No faith well thats what God says anyway.
So if these poeple were getting prayed for they were sick.

So sickness is the mountian in front of them. It didnt move.

So if I pray for someone and they dont get healed Its down to me and my lack of faith.

If you have any thing from scripture that contradicts me please tell it.

Why couldnt we heal the boy as I already quoted.
Because of YOUR lack of faith.

The deciples already healed loads before that.


PS We are growing up into Him. And all at very varing stages.
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 13:00:41 by Believer »

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #26 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 13:50:43 »


yes they were very mature godly people who died. They had faith and those who prayed for them had faith.

So what does the bible say about faith?

Matthew 21:21.   21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

So what moves the mountian?
Think were all agreed FAITH moves the monutian.

So what if the mountian didnt move?
 Is it God ? Nope. Why not because God is faithfull. all agread here.
Wonder what it could be? No faith well thats what God says anyway.
So if these poeple were getting prayed for they were sick.

So sickness is the mountian in front of them. It didnt move.

So if I pray for someone and they dont get healed Its down to me and my lack of faith.

If you have any thing from scripture that contradicts me please tell it.

Why couldnt we heal the boy as I already quoted.
Because of YOUR lack of faith.

The deciples already healed loads before that.


PS We are growing up into Him. And all at very varing stages.

To tell a sick person that they are not healed because their faith isnt strong enough is cruel, and its a cop out.

One of the people I was thinking of was a very well knows British evangelist and Bible teacher who also wrote many books that were so helpful to many. He was one of the most respected Christian men in this country. He got cancer when in his 40's. He was married with 2 quite young children. He fought it and he prayed and many very strong believers prayed for him including John Wimber. Christians all over the country were praying. Apparently his tumours got smaller after prayer, but grew again and sadly he eventually died. I have no idea why God didn't heal him, he was such an amazing evangelist, but for whatever reason He didnt, and we wont know why till we get to heaven.



 

Offline Tiny Sparrow

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #27 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 13:52:55 »
You sound very combative in this thread. Is this personal for you?

Do you have scripture that answers the OP question? I've not seen you cite scripture to support your claims that you put forth to counter others.

Answer with scripture then, why God doesn't heal all sickness in the world.

 Why Doesn't God Always Heal?
Trying to figure out what's going on when God says no or wait.


I didn't realize I was on an international forum wherein English was not a first language. Though it now makes sense why I've read so many posts here that are so poorly worded in written English.
 My apologies. I'll try to make it very simple and again in English because I am not multi-lingual. (speak many languages)

The question in the OP asks us:  Does God want to heal everyone?

No.
If God wanted to heal everyone there would be no sickness. God is Omnipotent (meaning all powerful).  If he wanted to heal the world of what ails all people he could and would.
Being God is Omniscient (knows all things eternally) , he knows that people worship gods other than himself. If he did heal the entire world as the one true God capable of doing that, those people who pray for healing from their false god's, in other words those who are not Christian but pray to be healed, would simply believe that their prayers to their false gods had been answered.

God works all things for his glory. Don't ask why doesn't God heal the world. The world is as he wishes it to be. Maybe that is the case because God wants people to find their way to him, the one true God, when they realize their illness that isn't being healed by prayers to gods other than him they'll seek him out.
Who knows? God tells us his thoughts are not ours. So what are we really arguing here as if we're able to be 'right' about why God does what he does?

I hope that clears it up for you that aren't English speakers. If not, that's as God wills too.  ::smile::




So this is just your thoughts? Or do you have scripture telling us all you claimed?
« Last Edit: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:00:35 by Tiny Sparrow »

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #28 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:08:14 »
The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity.  It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #29 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:26:44 »
The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity.  It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

To whom are you addressing your remarks?  ???

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #30 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:30:09 »
To whom are you addressing your remarks?  ???

To the OP.  This is a Word of Faith thread.  There is a similar one in the General Discussion section.

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #31 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:44:26 »
You sound very combative in this thread. Is this personal for you?

Do you have scripture that answers the OP question? I've not seen you cite scripture to support your claims that you put forth to counter others.

Answer with scripture then, why God doesn't heal all sickness in the world.

 Why Doesn't God Always Heal?
Trying to figure out what's going on when God says no or wait.


I didn't realize I was on an international forum wherein English was not a first language. Though it now makes sense why I've read so many posts here that are so poorly worded in written English.
 My apologies. I'll try to make it very simple and again in English because I am not multi-lingual. (speak many languages)

The question in the OP asks us:  Does God want to heal everyone?

No.
If God wanted to heal everyone there would be no sickness. God is Omnipotent (meaning all powerful).  If he wanted to heal the world of what ails all people he could and would.
Being God is Omniscient (knows all things eternally) , he knows that people worship gods other than himself. If he did heal the entire world as the one true God capable of doing that, those people who pray for healing from their false god's, in other words those who are not Christian but pray to be healed, would simply believe that their prayers to their false gods had been answered.

God works all things for his glory. Don't ask why doesn't God heal the world. The world is as he wishes it to be. Maybe that is the case because God wants people to find their way to him, the one true God, when they realize their illness that isn't being healed by prayers to gods other than him they'll seek him out.
Who knows? God tells us his thoughts are not ours. So what are we really arguing here as if we're able to be 'right' about why God does what he does?

I hope that clears it up for you that aren't English speakers. If not, that's as God wills too.  ::smile::




So this is just your thoughts? Or do you have scripture telling us all you claimed?



Read posts 11, 12, and 25. Looks like scripture to me. If anyone seems "combative" it would be you, my friend. The wording you choose is very condescending
Quote
in English because I am not multi-lingual. (speak many languages)
I think we know what multi-lingual means. I digress, Believer is merely responding to those who don't agree with his statement that he made in the first post. It's quite common here. One proposes an idea (hopefully with scripture to back it up) and the others chime in on what they believe and why (again, hopefully with scripture) I haven't seen any "combative"-ness going on here. We all love God here and we keep that in mind as we respond to others on this forum.

Father, I come to you as a mere mortal. I am nothing but dust. I pray for your guidance and wisdom. Make me more like Jesus in everything I do. Thank you for the sacrifice of your only begotten son on the cross. Lord I also lift up Tiny Sparrow to you and ask that you bless them in their walk of life and grant them guidance and wisdom as well. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

Offline Tiny Sparrow

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #32 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:55:16 »
To whom are you addressing your remarks?  ???

To the OP.  This is a Word of Faith thread.  There is a similar one in the General Discussion section.
Ah, that explains the defensive tenor that appears to be developing here.

Thank you for enlightening me. I had thought this whole topic a bit odd for Christians to be discussing in such ways. The combative nature of some is now explained. Thank you again. I'll depart the thread now.
Praise God for his true and eternal word and inspiring spirit.

Offline Nomad1689

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #33 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 15:27:49 »

1Ti 5:23  (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)


The water is bad and he is prone to sickness hes leaving Paul and its sickesses ( Plurel) hes getting not a sickness. So he should add some wine to the water to stop him getting sick.

The cause of Timothy's "frequent ailments" is irrelevant. The fact remains that God did not heal this godly leader. He had to resort to a "natural" remedy. Your claim has been proven false.

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Re: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes.
« Reply #34 on: Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:15:50 »

Possibly the greatest concern is why children are born with diseases such as spinobiphoda, cerebral palsy, etc. I've heard some suggest that the adamic nature children are born with is reflective of their health status, but I have some difficulty with that concept.
This is all satan. We are called to lay hands on the sick and restore the kingdom. forget adam and any thing else that not clearly in, the new covanant



So if it's simply a matter of laying hands on, why is it that children are not being healed of these horrendous diseases? Never has a child been cured of spinobiphoda, amongst many other diseases I'm sure.