Author Topic: Dont know why I am asking this. But here goes. (Read 2286 times)

Believer · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:57:45 »

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 13:50:43

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:58:22
Quote from: chosenone on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:42:11

yes they were very mature godly people who died. They had faith and those who prayed for them had faith.

So what does the bible say about faith?

Matthew 21:21. 21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

So what moves the mountian?
Think were all agreed FAITH moves the monutian.

So what if the mountian didnt move?
Is it God ? Nope. Why not because God is faithfull. all agread here.
Wonder what it could be? No faith well thats what God says anyway.
So if these poeple were getting prayed for they were sick.

So sickness is the mountian in front of them. It didnt move.

So if I pray for someone and they dont get healed Its down to me and my lack of faith.

If you have any thing from scripture that contradicts me please tell it.

Why couldnt we heal the boy as I already quoted.
Because of YOUR lack of faith.

The deciples already healed loads before that.

PS We are growing up into Him. And all at very varing stages.

To tell a sick person that they are not healed because their faith isnt strong enough is cruel, and its a cop out.

One of the people I was thinking of was a very well knows British evangelist and Bible teacher who also wrote many books that were so helpful to many. He was one of the most respected Christian men in this country. He got cancer when in his 40's. He was married with 2 quite young children. He fought it and he prayed and many very strong believers prayed for him including John Wimber. Christians all over the country were praying. Apparently his tumours got smaller after prayer, but grew again and sadly he eventually died. I have no idea why God didn't heal him, he was such an amazing evangelist, but for whatever reason He didnt, and we wont know why till we get to heaven.

You are misquoting me That is not allowed in here. Please correct it. I never said the sick are resposible. You did.
The person.persons praying are resposible always. At no point is the victim at fault.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:57:45 »

Believer · « **Reply #36 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:58:57 »

Quote from: Tiny Sparrow on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 13:52:55

You sound very combative in this thread. Is this personal for you?

Do you have scripture that answers the OP question? I've not seen you cite scripture to support your claims that you put forth to counter others.

Answer with scripture then, why God doesn't heal all sickness in the world.

Why Doesn't God Always Heal?
Trying to figure out what's going on when God says no or wait.

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:16:40
Quote from: Tiny Sparrow on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:37:14
I didn't realize I was on an international forum wherein English was not a first language. Though it now makes sense why I've read so many posts here that are so poorly worded in written English.
My apologies. I'll try to make it very simple and again in English because I am not multi-lingual. (speak many languages)

The question in the OP asks us: Does God want to heal everyone?

No.
If God wanted to heal everyone there would be no sickness. God is Omnipotent (meaning all powerful). If he wanted to heal the world of what ails all people he could and would.
Being God is Omniscient (knows all things eternally) , he knows that people worship gods other than himself. If he did heal the entire world as the one true God capable of doing that, those people who pray for healing from their false god's, in other words those who are not Christian but pray to be healed, would simply believe that their prayers to their false gods had been answered.

God works all things for his glory. Don't ask why doesn't God heal the world. The world is as he wishes it to be. Maybe that is the case because God wants people to find their way to him, the one true God, when they realize their illness that isn't being healed by prayers to gods other than him they'll seek him out.
Who knows? God tells us his thoughts are not ours. So what are we really arguing here as if we're able to be 'right' about why God does what he does?

I hope that clears it up for you that aren't English speakers. If not, that's as God wills too.

So this is just your thoughts? Or do you have scripture telling us all you claimed?

I am the OP

Believer · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:00:52 »

Quote from: BondServant on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:08:14

The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity. It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

So you gonna do that ? You got scripture to back up your claim? The rules in here state back up what you claim.

Believer · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:04:45 »

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:15:50

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:01:33

Quote from: Alan on Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 21:49:24
Possibly the greatest concern is why children are born with diseases such as spinobiphoda, cerebral palsy, etc. I've heard some suggest that the adamic nature children are born with is reflective of their health status, but I have some difficulty with that concept.
This is all satan. We are called to lay hands on the sick and restore the kingdom. forget adam and any thing else that not clearly in, the new covanant

So if it's simply a matter of laying hands on, why is it that children are not being healed of these horrendous diseases? Never has a child been cured of spinobiphoda, amongst many other diseases I'm sure.

Because the majority in the church dont believe it just look at the replys including yours.

Believer · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:06:56 »

Quote from: Nomad1689 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 15:27:49

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 11:03:02

Quote from: Nomad1689 on Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 19:12:52
1Ti 5:23 (No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.)

The water is bad and he is prone to sickness hes leaving Paul and its sickesses ( Plurel) hes getting not a sickness. So he should add some wine to the water to stop him getting sick.

The cause of Timothy's "frequent ailments" is irrelevant. The fact remains that God did not heal this godly leader. He had to resort to a "natural" remedy. Your claim has been proven false.

I gave many scripture say God heals and its for all. Do you have anothers cripture to back up that one? We all know scripture backs its self up. I said that is my thought on tim. Not a decent study. Just my thoughts.

Christian Forums and Message Board · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:06:56 »

Believer · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:12:09 »

Thanks New Creation. unfourtunatly a lot of Christians think we all live a nice life and every thing is nice. Jesus took the time to make that whip. Jesus said take a sword. Jesus said familys will be devided. We are here to dominate this earth and the spiritaul realm. Theres a place for love. When you lay down scripture Chrsitains take offence for lack of understanding. I have seen this so many times I dont even get shocked any more. I know whats against me. And it makes me stronger.
Bless you and tiny sparrow. for understanding. I aint here to hurt you. I am here to tell of the blessings in my life now.

Alan · « **Reply #41 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:20:15 »

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:04:45

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:15:50
Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:01:33

Quote from: Alan on Sat Dec 27, 2014 - 21:49:24
Possibly the greatest concern is why children are born with diseases such as spinobiphoda, cerebral palsy, etc. I've heard some suggest that the adamic nature children are born with is reflective of their health status, but I have some difficulty with that concept.
This is all satan. We are called to lay hands on the sick and restore the kingdom. forget adam and any thing else that not clearly in, the new covanant

So if it's simply a matter of laying hands on, why is it that children are not being healed of these horrendous diseases? Never has a child been cured of spinobiphoda, amongst many other diseases I'm sure.

Because the majority in the church dont believe it just look at the replys including yours.

You are honestly going to assert that not a single Christian has ever believed enough or possessed enough faith to heal a child of these crippling diseases?

This is hurtful deception and the kind of Christianity that turns people away from God.

Believer · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:27:04 »

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:20:15

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:20:15
You are honestly going to assert that not a single Christian has ever believed enough or possessed enough faith to heal a child of these crippling diseases?

See you are another that misquoted me. Can you please just tell the truth. I never saiod theres not a single christian who can lay hands on the sick and get them healed You said that not me. You are not allowed to misquote someone. Please go back and correct your post.

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:20:15
This is hurtful deception and the kind of Christianity that turns people away from God.

Misqoting is deception. You talk plenty with no scroipture. Please bring some scripture to back up why God doesnt heal as You say.

Alan · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:30:32 »

I'm not playing this game again

Believer · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:36:54 »

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:30:32

I'm not playing this game again

You seemed concerd about children now you not playing or taking resposibility. This is not a game. Peopel are dying whist we are wondering what correct and whats not in scriptiure. Are you not playing bacause you have no scripture to back up your thoughts. That is very costly. unfortunatly We wait untill satan comes to our door and then its to late to get into the battle. Then were hurt then we blame God. Who provided everything.

Nevertheless · « **Reply #45 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:12:27 »

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:57:45

The person.persons praying are resposible always.

So Paul was lacking in faith?

Quote from: 2 Corinthians 12

7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

You have stated that the only reason God does not heal is a lack of faith in the one asking. Certainly that can be one reason, but it is not the only reason. Paul was blessed to be told the reason he was not healed. Most of us are not so fortunate.

Believer · « **Reply #46 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:15:34 »

Quote from: Nevertheless on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:12:27

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:57:45
The person.persons praying are resposible always.

So Paul was lacking in faith?

Quote from: 2 Corinthians 12
7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

You have stated that the only reason God does not heal is a lack of faith in the one asking. Certainly that can be one reason, but it is not the only reason. Paul was blessed to be told the reason he was not healed. Most of us are not so fortunate.

No Paul was not lacking faith ever. He like Jesus healed them all, unlike us. But you are mistaken Paul was not sick. Did scripture say Paul was sick or your pastor?

Nevertheless · « **Reply #47 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:21:24 »

How do you understand "thorn in the flesh"?

k-pappy · « **Reply #48 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:23:13 »

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:00:52

Quote from: BondServant on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:08:14
The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity. It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

So you gonna do that ? You got scripture to back up your claim? The rules in here state back up what you claim.

Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.

Please understand that I am not trying to convince you. You have clearly bought into the movement in its entirety. I am simply trying to protect others.

Nevertheless · « **Reply #49 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:29:26 »

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:15:34

No Paul was not lacking faith ever. He like Jesus jealed them all, unlike us.

You are mistaken. Jesus did not heal all.

Quote from: Matthew 13

53 And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there, 54 and coming to his hometown he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household.” 58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

JB · « **Reply #50 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:47:20 »

Correction: This is an inter-global site. I'm from Alpha Centori. We have a big problem with N. American English, too.

Alan · « **Reply #51 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 19:44:37 »

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:36:54

Quote from: Alan on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 17:30:32
I'm not playing this game again

You seemed concerd about children now you not playing or taking resposibility. This is not a game. Peopel are dying whist we are wondering what correct and whats not in scriptiure. Are you not playing bacause you have no scripture to back up your thoughts. That is very costly. unfortunatly We wait untill satan comes to our door and then its to late to get into the battle. Then were hurt then we blame God. Who provided everything.

I am using spinibiphoda since it's a common disease that plagues and ultimately kills many children. There is no scripture that describes healing from this disease specifically since it has only surfaced in the last century, but there is absolutely no cure for this disease, nor does any credible testimony exist of a child being healed through faith.

Free Christian · « **Reply #52 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 20:20:41 »

Years ago I was a member of a church that had people who claimed to have the gift of healing, church leaders. This was a well known, very large, high profile AOG church.
Week after week I saw people come in with various problems and diseases. Not once did I see a cripple walk, or a blind person regain their eyesight. Not once. How was this explained to the congregation? The people being prayed for did not have enough faith we were told, or that some were having their problems resolved slowly. I even had a person tell me once that a person born with an arm defect, half the length of the other one, that it was being healed and was slowly growing!
Imagine how those people felt! So how does this go then, lack of faith? What about the people who were healed by Jesus that had no idea or were not even present when the healing was done?

Nomad1689 · « **Reply #53 on:** Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 20:36:56 »

Quote from: Free Christian on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 20:20:41

Years ago I was a member of a church that had people who claimed to have the gift of healing, church leaders. This was a well known, very large, high profile AOG church.
Week after week I saw people come in with various problems and diseases. Not once did I see a cripple walk, or a blind person regain their eyesight. Not once. How was this explained to the congregation? The people being prayed for did not have enough faith we were told, or that some were having their problems resolved slowly. I even had a person tell me once that a person born with an arm defect, half the length of the other one, that it was being healed and was slowly growing!
Imagine how those people felt! So how does this go then, lack of faith? What about the people who were healed by Jesus that had no idea or were not even present when the healing was done?

You're absolutely right. I grew up in an AOG church and I was fed the same unbiblical garbage.

chosenone · « **Reply #54 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 01:18:18 »

Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 16:57:45

Quote from: chosenone on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 13:50:43
Quote from: Believer on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:58:22
Quote from: chosenone on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 12:42:11

yes they were very mature godly people who died. They had faith and those who prayed for them had faith.

So what does the bible say about faith?

Matthew 21:21. 21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

So what moves the mountian?
Think were all agreed FAITH moves the monutian.

So what if the mountian didnt move?
Is it God ? Nope. Why not because God is faithfull. all agread here.
Wonder what it could be? No faith well thats what God says anyway.
So if these poeple were getting prayed for they were sick.

So sickness is the mountian in front of them. It didnt move.

So if I pray for someone and they dont get healed Its down to me and my lack of faith.

If you have any thing from scripture that contradicts me please tell it.

Why couldnt we heal the boy as I already quoted.
Because of YOUR lack of faith.

The deciples already healed loads before that.

PS We are growing up into Him. And all at very varing stages.

To tell a sick person that they are not healed because their faith isnt strong enough is cruel, and its a cop out.

One of the people I was thinking of was a very well knows British evangelist and Bible teacher who also wrote many books that were so helpful to many. He was one of the most respected Christian men in this country. He got cancer when in his 40's. He was married with 2 quite young children. He fought it and he prayed and many very strong believers prayed for him including John Wimber. Christians all over the country were praying. Apparently his tumours got smaller after prayer, but grew again and sadly he eventually died. I have no idea why God didn't heal him, he was such an amazing evangelist, but for whatever reason He didnt, and we wont know why till we get to heaven.

You are misquoting me That is not allowed in here. Please correct it. I never said the sick are resposible. You did.
The person.persons praying are resposible always. At no point is the victim at fault.

OK what about the man I mentioned here who was prayed for countless times by people all over the UK and also by very well know men of God who had strong faith?

chosenone · « **Reply #55 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 01:19:57 »

Quote from: Nomad1689 on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 20:36:56

Quote from: Free Christian on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 20:20:41
Years ago I was a member of a church that had people who claimed to have the gift of healing, church leaders. This was a well known, very large, high profile AOG church.
Week after week I saw people come in with various problems and diseases. Not once did I see a cripple walk, or a blind person regain their eyesight. Not once. How was this explained to the congregation? The people being prayed for did not have enough faith we were told, or that some were having their problems resolved slowly. I even had a person tell me once that a person born with an arm defect, half the length of the other one, that it was being healed and was slowly growing!
Imagine how those people felt! So how does this go then, lack of faith? What about the people who were healed by Jesus that had no idea or were not even present when the healing was done?

You're absolutely right. I grew up in an AOG church and I was fed the same unbiblical garbage.

Actually I know a lady who was instantly healed after 8 years of being confined to a wheelchair. That was about 25 years ago and she has been well since.

I know that God still heals today, but I also see that often it doesn't happen despite strong faith, and we dont always know why.

Believer could you tell us of the healings you have seen?

Believer · « **Reply #56 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 03:28:42 »

Quote from: Nevertheless on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:21:24

How do you understand "thorn in the flesh"?

I recommend this. save me a lot of time.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/pauls_thorn.
I did notice a lot of you people in here have a lot of question, but are a little shy at answering my questions

Quote from: Nevertheless on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:29:26

You are mistaken. Jesus did not heal all.

Quote from: Matthew 13
53 And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there, 54 and coming to his hometown he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? 55 Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household.” 58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

Jesu went home to his own and the only two places where you will not be recived, espicailly when you say hey guy its me Jesus you mind of me yeah. Yes I AM. What your Gods son and they all laugh. and ridicule and take offence. He could only heal but a few because of there unblief. If they are offended and dont come how can He heal them? He only healed a few that did come. The whole crowd is against him. Who would be the out casts in that place? The ones who took a chance. They would have been ignored by that same crowd. They have nothing to lose. Some of the crowd would have wanted to go to Him to. But pear pressure with the whold village against Him. Would have stopped some.
So do you think Jesus was in lack, like you said I thought Paul was? Jesus lacked nothing Niether do we. We have the full God head within us. We have the mind of Christ, whiether you believe it or not you have it. We are perfect wiether you think it or not. That is all scripture. Christian pull out ONE scripture and think they have it. Listen what kind of god heals one and not another then say I never cchange? What kind of god says one thing then another. Not My God. My God heals them all. Its outr unbelief that get s in the way.

This is what my bible says. Jesus heals them all. The apostles healed them all.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

Matthew 8:14
[ Peter’s Mother-in-Law Healed ] Now when Jesus had come into Peter’s house, He saw his wife’s mother lying sick with a fever.

Matthew 9:27
[ Two Blind Men Healed ] When Jesus departed from there, two blind men followed Him, crying out and saying, “Son of David, have mercy on us!”
s
Matthew 12:15
[ Behold, My Servant ] But when Jesus knew it, He withdrew from there. And great multitudes followed Him, and He healed them all.

Matthew 14:14
And when Jesus went out He saw a great multitude; and He was moved with compassion for them, and healed their sick.

Matthew 15:28
Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Matthew 15:30
Then great multitudes came to Him, having with them the lame, blind, mute, maimed, and many others; and they laid them down at Jesus’ feet, and He healed them.

Mark 5:21
[ A Girl Restored to Life and a Woman Healed ] Now when Jesus had crossed over again by boat to the other side, a great multitude gathered to Him; and He was by the sea.

Luke 6:17
[ Jesus Heals a Great Multitude ] And He came down with them and stood on a level place with a crowd of His disciples and a great multitude of people from all Judea and Jerusalem, and from the seacoast of Tyre and Sidon, who came to hear Him and be healed of their diseases,

Luke 8:40
[ A Girl Restored to Life and a Woman Healed ] So it was, when Jesus returned, that the multitude welcomed Him, for they were all waiting for Him.

Luke 9:42
And as he was still coming, the demon threw him down and convulsed him. Then Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, healed the child, and gave him back to his father.

Luke 13:14
But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, “There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day.”

Luke 22:51
But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and healed him.

John 4:46
[ A Nobleman’s Son Healed ] So Jesus came again to Cana of Galilee where He had made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman whose son was sick at Capernaum.

John 5:1
[ A Man Healed at the Pool of Bethesda ] After this there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

John 5:13
But the one who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, a multitude being in that place.

DaveW · « **Reply #57 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 08:14:08 »

Hey Believer - don't forget this passage in your list:

Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.”
5 And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6 And He wondered at their unbelief.

Even the Lord was hindered by unbelief. He did NOT "heal them all."

Nevertheless · « **Reply #58 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:22:09 »

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 03:28:42

Quote from: Nevertheless on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 18:21:24
How do you understand "thorn in the flesh"?

I recommend this. save me a lot of time.
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/pauls_thorn.
I did notice a lot of you people in here have a lot of question, but are a little shy at answering my questions

I really don't care about saving you time. It is a simple question. If you understand Paul's thorn to be a sickness, disease or infirmity, then you cannot deny that God told him "No" when he asked for healing. That is the reason for my question. Tell me in a few simple words what you understand the thorn to be, and if I want to learn more about your perspective I will go to the article you linked.

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 03:28:42

This is what my bible says. Jesus heals them all. The apostles healed them all.

You are mistaken. The Bible does not say that Jesus healed all, as it also contains Matthew 13 and Mark 6. If you want to ignore those scriptures, you go right ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to agree with you.

MeMyself · « **Reply #59 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:26:54 »

Quote from: Nevertheless on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:22:09

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 03:28:42
This is what my bible says. Jesus heals them all. The apostles healed them all.

You are mistaken. The Bible does not say that Jesus healed all, as it also contains Matthew 13 and Mark 6. If you want to ignore those scriptures, you go right ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to agree with you.

Believer · « **Reply #60 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:32:27 »

Quote from: DaveW on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 08:14:08

Hey Believer - don't forget this passage in your list:

Mark 6:4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and among his own relatives and in his own household.”
5 And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
6 And He wondered at their unbelief.

Even the Lord was hindered by unbelief. He did NOT "heal them all."

So are you saying Jesus could not heal the sick. For a lack of something in Christ? He couldnt heal but a few because, but a few came to Him He healed them all. All that came. All means all. If they dont come fro healing how can He heal them. They didnt want him the ridculed Him. We know who you are . You are no son of God. We know your family. Your a clown. This is there attitude. Just like most Christians dont believe, He is consistant. They take there experiance and put that above Gods word.

Believer · « **Reply #61 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59 »

Quote from: Nevertheless on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:22:09

I really don't care about saving you time. It is a simple question. If you understand Paul's thorn to be a sickness, disease or infirmity, then you cannot deny that God told him "No" when he asked for healing. That is the reason for my question. Tell me in a few simple words what you understand the thorn to be, and if I want to learn more about your perspective I will go to the article you linked.

So you dont care about my time. Well thats not very encouraging. So just for you, I will take the time to try and explian what I believe even though you care not, for the time I take to do that for you.
Here is the shortest version you will ever see. A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.

So why would you add something that is not there.

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 03:28:42

This is what my bible says. Jesus heals them all. The apostles healed them all.

You are mistaken. The Bible does not say that Jesus healed all, as it also contains Matthew 13 and Mark 6. If you want to ignore those scriptures, you go right ahead, but don't expect the rest of us to agree with you.
[/quote]

Can you name one person who never got healed because of a lack in jesus or the appostiles. This is nonsense. He healed everyone who wanted healing. The doctor cant heal you unless you go to him. How simple is that?

MeMyself · « **Reply #62 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:59:55 »

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59

A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.

What is it then?

Wycliffes_Shillelagh · « **Reply #63 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:00:39 »

There is a misconception in the church-at-large, and in this thread. It is assumed that all of the people Jesus healed were miraculously *poofed* back to pristine health. This is not accurate.

There are actually a few different words used of the healings that Jesus performed, and they indicate different things happening. The story of the Centurion's servant (Matthew 8) is instructive.

Once the Centurion tells Jesus of the servant's plight (v.5), Jesus announces that He will travel to the Centurion's home to heal (therapeuo) the servant (v.7).

This word, therapeuo, is one that means 'to nurse back to health' in a normal, non-miraculous way. Jesus was going to travel to the man's house, stay there as a therapist, and treat the man.

The centurion's faith, however, is stronger than this, as he responds that if Jesus will but say the word, the man will be healed (iaomai). (v.8) Iaomai doesn't have to indicate a miraculous healing, but it may, and in this case that is precisely what happened. (v.13)

This story ends with a miraculous healing, but there are plenty of places where Jesus did actually treat the people who came to Him via "regular" means.

Jarrod

Wycliffes_Shillelagh · « **Reply #64 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:03:38 »

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:59:55

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59
A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.
What is it then?

Well there's only one place in Scripture that uses that phrase.... but I reckon that the verse speaks to what it is reasonably clearly:

"There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Jarrod

Believer · « **Reply #65 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:12:35 »

Quote from: BondServant on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:08:14

The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity. It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

First things first I have no idea who the word of faith movement are.

What I do know about faith is You cant please God with out it.

Quote from: BondServant on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:08:14

The Word of Faith movement presents a false gospel, which is very dangerous to Christianity. It should be refuted at all times with sound scriptural truth.

Please dont put me in a box and catagorise me, just because you need to label people.
If you are going to judge me please Judge me on the posts I made and counter them with scripture as you own rules say you must. Thank you.

Quote from: BondServant on Sun Dec 28, 2014 - 14:08:14

Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.

Please understand that I am not trying to convince you. You have clearly bought into the movement in its entirety. I am simply trying to protect others.

............................................................

So now that we know we are all agreed with the scriptures you quoted. Whats you point if you actully have one?
You lumped me in with a crowd I never heard of.
You told everyone here what I have been preaching is dangoerous.

So would you like to breack down what you are really getting at.

Show us the scripture that I have got wrong, and then try and explain why I am wrong? I ignored yuur posts up to this point, because I had little clue as to what you are speaking about. Now I have a little time. to spare I thought I would ask you. So please continue.

Nevertheless · « **Reply #66 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:50:45 »

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59

Here is the shortest version you will ever see. A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.

So why would you add something that is not there.

There is only one place in Scripture that the phrase "thorn in the flesh" is used, so you haven't really said anything there. You do not believe it is a sickness, disease or infirmity, so I will ask again. Tell me in a few simple words what you understand the thorn to be.

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59

Can you name one person who never got healed because of a lack in jesus or the appostiles. This is nonsense. He healed everyone who wanted healing. The doctor cant heal you unless you go to him. How simple is that?

You are right about one thing, this is nonsense. No one but you has said anything about a "lack" in Jesus or the apostles.

Believer · « **Reply #67 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:54:49 »

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:03:38

Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:59:55
Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59
A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.
What is it then?
Well there's only one place in Scripture that uses that phrase.... but I reckon that the verse speaks to what it is reasonably clearly:

"There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Jarrod

Na man you need to get it right when you are teaching there are seven not one. Have another look. If you cant find them Just ask. I really dont need to know what you reckon. I need scripture.

MeMyself · « **Reply #68 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 12:00:13 »

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:54:49

Quote from: Wycliffes_Shillelagh on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:03:38
Quote from: MeMyself on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:59:55
Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59
A thorn in the flesh never at any time or point in scripture indicates sickness or desase, or infimity.
What is it then?
Well there's only one place in Scripture that uses that phrase.... but I reckon that the verse speaks to what it is reasonably clearly:

"There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

Jarrod

Na man you need to get it right when you are teaching there are seven not one. Have another look. If you cant find them Just ask. I really dont need to know what you reckon. I need scripture.

Why don't you just share them? This is an odd game...

Believer · « **Reply #69 on:** Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 12:08:55 »

Quote from: Nevertheless on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:50:45

There is only one place in Scripture that the phrase "thorn in the flesh" is used, so you haven't really said anything there. You do not believe it is a sickness, disease or infirmity, so I will ask again. Tell me in a few simple words what you understand the thorn to be.

Wrong there are seven places.

Quote from: Believer on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 10:52:59

Can you name one person who never got healed because of a lack in Jesus or the apostiles. This is nonsense. He healed everyone who wanted healing. The doctor cant heal you unless you go to him. How simple is that?

Quote from: Nevertheless on Mon Dec 29, 2014 - 11:50:45

You are right about one thing, this is nonsense. No one but you has said anything about a "lack" in Jesus or the apostles.

|I am talking to a lot who are in disagreent with me. Maybe its because they are not being exactly clear on where they satnd. It is wquite difficult and when you ar egetting told "I dont care about you time" thats not very encouraging to me. There is nothing I said so far that you have a greed with nothing. Its like walking in tar. lets continue. Look up the other seven scriptures. If you can be botherd. difficult rtying to teach with you not being that interested in looking at what I gave you.

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