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Offline Insight

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The declaration of Jesus Christ
« on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 18:17:35 »
The words of Jesus Christ concerning the work of God through him cannot be of man; that is of the flesh, but only by the Spirit - Mind working upon the sentiment of his nature bringing into captivity every rebellious thought to subjection to the Will of his Father in Heaven.

So the Glory of his triumph was to Him (Yahweh or Jehovah) alone, unto the One True God.  In this work Jesus taught that no human nature/strength would claim victory or involvement (atonement) so when we read the Master was made without hands; this is to mean "fallen" humanity and its Will had nothing to do with his triumphant character of Jesus Christ, which was shaped by the divine will/hand of God upon His Son.

While we have seen Jesus was made of a woman, made of sins flesh and suffered fully the effects of Adams sin i.e. inherited nature one prone to sin we must acknowledge the Divine side of Christ.

Let us consider some of his teachings to reveal who precisely is the great initiator and operator in the life of Jesus Christ

Why did Jesus use this style of language?

"I came down from Heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me" (John 7:38).

"I am not come of myself" (John 6:28)

"The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works" (John 14:10).

"I am come in my Father's name" (John 5:43).

"I can of mine own self do nothing" (John 5:30).

"He that sent me is with me" (John 8:29).

“He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, shew us the Father?" (John 14:9).

However do the Apostles agree?

Speaking of the Father, "having predestinated us, unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ TO HIMSELF according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:5)  

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being justified FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:23),

"God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy, upon all." Again, in 2 Corinthians 5:18,19, he tells us that God hath reconciled us unto HIMSELF by Jesus Christ; and that God was in Christ, reconciling the world UNTO HIMSELF.

"The kindness and love of GOD our SAVIOUR toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to HIS MERCY, He saved us". Titus 3:4

"For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men"

This declaration ought to lead a true Christian to the Grace of God and not the Grace of Jesus Christ who also was a beneficiary of such Grace.

For Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead.

Insight
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 18:24:26 by Insight »

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The declaration of Jesus Christ
« on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 18:17:35 »

Offline gospel

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 19:04:00 »
JESUS IS GOD

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 19:04:00 »

Offline Insight

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #2 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 20:20:01 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

larry2

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 22:11:28 »

This declaration ought to lead a true Christian to the Grace of God and not the Grace of Jesus Christ who also was a beneficiary of such Grace.


How does this all become reconciled to the fact that Jesus is Jehovah, or does your insight allow you to see that?

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 22:11:28 »

Offline Sinead

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 22:24:57 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.


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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jan 08, 2012 - 22:24:57 »



Offline Insight

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 15:36:30 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.



Bold words but empty of wisdom.

Show me this core teaching that salvation is based on Jesus being God. I thyink you will find salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood.

We shall see.



Offline Sinead

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jan 09, 2012 - 22:37:08 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.



Bold words but empty of wisdom.

Show me this core teaching that salvation is based on Jesus being God. I thyink you will find salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood.

We shall see.




What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 11, 2012 - 04:53:23 by Sinead »

Offline Insight

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 16:33:14 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.



Bold words but empty of wisdom.

Show me this core teaching that salvation is based on Jesus being God. I thyink you will find salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood.

We shall see.




Modified for Flaming

What they have shown are many opinions.

My point stands - salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood than him being God!
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 20:00:58 by JohnDB »

Offline Merryone

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #8 on: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 16:46:47 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.



Bold words but empty of wisdom.

Show me this core teaching that salvation is based on Jesus being God. I thyink you will find salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood.

We shall see.




Modified for Flaming

What they have shown are many opinions.

My point stands - salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood than him being God!

You cannot separate that!  ::headscratch::
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 10, 2012 - 20:01:28 by JohnDB »

p.rehbein

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #9 on: Fri Jan 20, 2012 - 08:01:34 »
Shoot, I'm so darn messed up  ::doh::, all this time I thought Jesus could not lie, but given the comments in the OP, He surely must have when He said:  "I and my Father are One..........."

 ::shrug::

Offline Insight

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #10 on: Sat Jan 21, 2012 - 05:18:59 »
Shoot, I'm so darn messed up  ::doh::, all this time I thought Jesus could not lie, but given the comments in the OP, He surely must have when He said:  "I and my Father are One..........."

 ::shrug::

Yes he could say this given he obey every command his Father ever gave him.

Thou shalt not lie was just one of them  ::smile::

p.rehbein

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #11 on: Sun Jan 22, 2012 - 06:38:39 »
Shoot, I'm so darn messed up  ::doh::, all this time I thought Jesus could not lie, but given the comments in the OP, He surely must have when He said:  "I and my Father are One..........."

 ::shrug::

Yes he could say this given he obey every command his Father ever gave him.

Thou shalt not lie was just one of them  ::smile::


So, basically, you have reduced Jesus to being God's cannon fodder?


Offline Insight

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #12 on: Tue Jan 24, 2012 - 05:16:08 »
Shoot, I'm so darn messed up  ::doh::, all this time I thought Jesus could not lie, but given the comments in the OP, He surely must have when He said:  "I and my Father are One..........."

 ::shrug::

Yes he could say this given he obey every command his Father ever gave him.

Thou shalt not lie was just one of them  ::smile::


So, basically, you have reduced Jesus to being God's cannon fodder?



While you are not correct in your sarcasm in one way for those who truly know Jesus and His Father it is said..."It please the Lord to bruise him"

Its in the “pleasing

Offline Insight

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #13 on: Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 05:29:50 »
The words of Jesus Christ concerning the work of God through him cannot be of man; that is of the flesh, but only by the Spirit - Mind working upon the sentiment of his nature bringing into captivity every rebellious thought to subjection to the Will of his Father in Heaven.

So the Glory of his triumph was to Him (Yahweh or Jehovah) alone, unto the One True God.  In this work Jesus taught that no human nature/strength would claim victory or involvement (atonement) so when we read the Master was made without hands; this is to mean "fallen" humanity and its Will had nothing to do with his triumphant character of Jesus Christ, which was shaped by the divine will/hand of God upon His Son.

While we have seen Jesus was made of a woman, made of sins flesh and suffered fully the effects of Adams sin i.e. inherited nature one prone to sin we must acknowledge the Divine side of Christ.

Let us consider some of his teachings to reveal who precisely is the great initiator and operator in the life of Jesus Christ

Why did Jesus use this style of language?

"I came down from Heaven not to do mine own will, but the will of Him that sent me" (John 7:38).

"I am not come of myself" (John 6:28)

"The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me, He doeth the works" (John 14:10).

"I am come in my Father's name" (John 5:43).

"I can of mine own self do nothing" (John 5:30).

"He that sent me is with me" (John 8:29).

“He that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, shew us the Father?" (John 14:9).

However do the Apostles agree?

Speaking of the Father, "having predestinated us, unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ TO HIMSELF according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:5)  

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being justified FREELY BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:23),

"God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy, upon all." Again, in 2 Corinthians 5:18,19, he tells us that God hath reconciled us unto HIMSELF by Jesus Christ; and that God was in Christ, reconciling the world UNTO HIMSELF.

"The kindness and love of GOD our SAVIOUR toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to HIS MERCY, He saved us". Titus 3:4

"For the GRACE OF GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared unto all men"

This declaration ought to lead a true Christian to the Grace of God and not the Grace of Jesus Christ who also was a beneficiary of such Grace.

For Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead.

Insight

Still unanswered especially those beautiful Scriptures which teach that Jesus was the firstborn from the dead something that can never be said of God Himself.
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 31, 2012 - 05:39:49 by Insight »

Offline Reflecter

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #14 on: Sun Mar 11, 2012 - 01:23:53 »
First to answer the O.P. Apostle Paul teaches "Jesus existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but empted Himself, taking the form of a bondservant, being made in the likeness of men.  And being found in appearance as man, He humbled Himself." Philippians 2:6-8

The Holy Spirit teaches us,
"In the beginning was the Word, and he Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was in the beginning with God.  All things came into being through Him; and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."  John 1:1-3

"For in Him all things were created, in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.  And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." Colosians 1:16-17

Jesus told Satan, "'Begone,Satan!   For it is written, "You shall wroship the Lord your God and serve Him only."'" Mathew 4:10  Later we see Jesus receiving worship and accepting it.  "Now one of them, when he saw that he had been hearled, turned back, gloryifing God with a loud voice, and he fell on his face at His feet, giving thanks to Him and he was a Samaritan." Luke 17:15-16

Hopefully you notice the Holy Spirit has the writer indicate that Jesus accepted worship as God.

"Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord, and my God.'  Jesus said to him, 'Because you have seen Me, have you believed?  Blessed are they who did not see, and beileved.'" John 20:28-29

"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." Titus 2:13

"Simon Peter, a bond servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the sme kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." 2 Peer 1:1

Offline epiphanius

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jun 06, 2012 - 11:30:44 »
JESUS IS GOD

It's Bold it's Big it's Blasphemous...just how you like Gospel.

Insight,

It's perfectly OK on a forum like this to discuss questions such as the scriptural basis for a disputed doctrine.  HOWEVER, to call a statement "blasphemous" because you disagree with it is simply uncharitable.  Much harm was done to the Church in the Fourth Century because of the Arian controversy, and I contend that most of it was precisely because of the lack of charity that the disputing parties showed towards each other.

What are you even doing on a christian forum? You aren't one. ANYONE who does not believe Jesus is God is not saved, period. It is the very core of our salvation.

Bold words but empty of wisdom.

Show me this core teaching that salvation is based on Jesus being God. I think you will find salvation has more to do with Jesus' Body and Blood.


This is a good example of how angry words bring about an angry response.

As for salvation being based on "belief that Jesus is God," however, I would agree with you that it is not--at least not fundamentally (since faith is not about propositions, but about a *real* encounter with the living God).

The paradox is that the NT gives plenty of statements that Jesus is *fully* human, and yet also gives many that suggest that He is God.  The Church resolved this at the Council of Nicaea in 325, adopting the phrase "true God and true man."  Later, at the Council of Chalcedon in 451, they expanded this to say that these two natures are "neither mingled nor confused."

While I believe that the statements of these councils are true, I would not reject a brother just for disagreeing with them.

Offline Eyes2see

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Re: The declaration of Jesus Christ
« Reply #16 on: Wed Jun 06, 2012 - 12:39:27 »
In the days of His flesh the enemy's of Christ understood Jesus to be calling Himself GOD. For this He was put to death.  

Jesus was call Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jesus said "there is only one good and that is God", the bible says Jesus is good.  

John 1:1 ...and the Word was God... John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

The carnal birth of God gave Him the title "Son of man" Because He was born of a virgin and had no natural father, but God Himself conceived Christ in the virgin's womb, Gave Him the title "Son of God" Jesus is our example in relationship to God. That is one reason for the titles that lead many to believe that Jesus and God are not the same person.



« Last Edit: Mon Jun 11, 2012 - 22:36:52 by Eyes2see »

 

     
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