Author Topic: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..  (Read 3404 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #35 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:33:32 »
"You have also not read most of the posts that were not attacking, but providing clear and simple Bible verses that show you what Gods intention for sex is, and what He forbids. Honestly its very simple and straight forward teaching.  Today at 08:27:09 AM by chosenone "

This has already been addressed in great detail.  You obviously did not read the post.  Yes, it's very 'simple' to put a false translation of a late 19th century word 'homosexual', but it also is very 'false'.

You completely ignore that the original Greek words by Paul do not condemn homosexuality between adult males, but only very specific and abusive relationships.

By all means, keep it 'simple' if you desire to believe a lie, but the truth is more complicated apparently then you can handle.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #35 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:33:32 »

Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30930
  • Manna: 538
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #36 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:35:51 »
"You have also not read most of the posts that were not attacking, but providing clear and simple Bible verses that show you what Gods intention for sex is, and what He forbids. Honestly its very simple and straight forward teaching.  Today at 08:27:09 AM by chosenone "

This has already been addressed in great detail.  You obviously did not read the post.  Yes, it's very 'simple' to put a false translation of a late 19th century word 'homosexual', but it also is very 'false'.

You completely ignore that the original Greek words by Paul do not condemn homosexuality between adult males, but only very specific and abusive relationships.

By all means, keep it 'simple' if you desire to believe a lie, but the truth is more complicated apparently then you can handle.



 I am referring to the many other verses that have been posted here that CLEARLY show that marriage is the only place for sex and that marriage is only for a man and a woman.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #37 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:44:46 »
"This doesn't matter. Its not a contest of whose numbers are greater to prove truth or not.  Truth is proven in and by God's Word.That it is needing to be altered and changed with claims of it being in error is very telling."

Actually it matters a great deal.  Do you honestly think it was easy for all of these congregations to face the truth, and to realize that they had been taught a lie on this subject?  No, it wasn't.

What is telling is that so many Christians desire to know the 'truth', and have done so.. and what is even more telling is that some people when faced with the direct and honest translation that many Biblical scholars now agree on... still prefer a simplistic lie, because inside themselves they have a prejudice on this issue, and 'desire' it to be a sin to validate their own human error, even when shown it is not.  That is the greatest sadness.

 ::frown::


Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #38 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:49:11 »
By all means, keep it 'simple' if you desire to believe a lie, but the truth is more complicated apparently then you can handle.

The simple truth is that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.  Homosexuality fits that bill just as much as the individual sin that trips all of mankind up.

Adultery, lust, lying lips, pride, arrogance, gossip, slander, selfishness, addictions, idol worship; the list goes on and on and on.

We are ALL doomed!  The good news is that GOD gave us a way of escape: CHRIST JESUS our LORD and loves us enough to show us how to live life His way.

He never says NO to us, just because He is in power and can, but because it is to protect us and keep us safe.

Like it or not. THAT is the truth.  He speaks against all manner of sexual sin, and homosexuality is included in that.  He does so not to condemn us, but that we might avoid harm and find His way is the best way.

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #39 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:51:46 »
It's interesting that the people who claim that marriage is only for one man and one women in the Bible never mention or seem to be aware of the following (I'm not promoting polygamy, but simply pointing out their inconsistency on the subject):

Lamech practiced polygamy (Genesis 4:19). Abraham likewise had more than one wife (Genesis 16:3-4; 25:6 "concubines"). Nahor, Abraham's brother, had both a wife and a concubine (Genesis 11:29; 22:20-24). Jacob was tricked into polygamy (Genesis 29:20-30), yet later he received two additional wives making a grand total of four wives (Genesis 30:4, 9). Esau took on a third wife hoping it might please his father Isaac (Genesis 28:6-9). Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives (1 Chronicles 4:5). Michael, Obadiah, Joel, Ishiah, and those with them "had many wives" (1 Chronicles 7:3-4). Shaharaim had at least four wives, two of which he "sent away" (1 Chronicles 8:8-11). Caleb had two wives (1 Chronicles 2:18) and two concubines (1 Chronicles 2:46, 48). Gideon had many wives (Judges 8:30). Elkanah is recorded as having two wives, one of which was the godly woman Hannah (1 Samuel 1:1-2, 8-2:10).

David, "a man after God's own heart" (1 Samuel 13:14; Acts 13:22), had at least 8 wives and 10 concubines (1 Chronicles 1:1-9; 2 Samuel 6:23; 20:3). Solomon, who breached both Deuteronomy 7:1-4 and 17:14-17, had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:1-6). Rehoboam had eighteen wives and sixty concubines (2 Chronicles 11:21), and sought many wives for his sons (1 Chronicles 11:23). Abijah had fourteen wives (2 Chronicles 13:21). Ahab had more than one wife (1 Kings 20:7). Jehoram had wives who were taken captive (2 Chronicles 21:17). Jehoiada the priest gave king Joash two wives (2 Chronicles 24:1-3), and Jehoiachin had more than one wife (2 Kings 24:15). Polygamy is mentioned several times over in the Bible and never once is it condemned.

Polygamy was governed, not forbidden:

Not only is polygamy not forbidden, but God actually gave laws concerning its practice. For example, in Deuteronomy 21 the Lord gave Moses a law regarding a man who had two wives:

"If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her who is unloved, then it shall be, on the day he bequeaths his possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true firstborn. But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his." (Deuteronomy 21:15-17)

This law does not condemn the man who has two wives. It simply governs how he deals with the offspring.

That stated, Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, let alone forbidding marriage between two people of the same gender. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #39 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:51:46 »



Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #40 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:54:22 »
That stated, Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, let alone forbidding marriage between two people of the same gender. 


Do you only believe parts of the Bible to be God's truthful Word?

Offline Catholica

  • Modal Globerator
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6263
  • Manna: 174
  • Gender: Male
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #41 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 09:57:22 »
Aaron,

I think it is well established (though not a wide source of self-reflection) that scripture in the hands of the unscrupulous can be made to say what it does not mean in the hands of the wrong people.  (2 Peter 3:16) While you assert that the "unscrupulous" would be those who have propagated that homosexual acts are immoral, others are going to say that the "unscrupulous" ones are those who say what you have been saying in this thread.  People could debate back and forth all day long with scriptural arguments.  There is only one moral truth about this topic, to be sure, and that truth is unchanging, but it seems that anyone contributing to this thread is going to be set in their own ways and their own interpretation of scripture which they authentically believe to be the correct one.

A simpler solution exists, which is to look at two things: the "natural law" and also whether the actual act brings peace or if it brings misery.

The natural law is undeniable even by people who don't believe in the Christian God.  Simply put, we can look at nature to understand the purpose of things.  With regard to human sexuality, we recognize that the parts used in the sexual act (genitalia) have two components to them that demonstrate their proper function: one is that they have a pleasure aspect, and the other is that, when complementary parts are put together, they operate in a way that will bring forth new life to the world.  Those two aspects together show that, naturally, genitalia are ordered toward both pleasure and life-giving, and neither is separable from the other

As you know, homosexual acts are not capable of giving life.  And that in itself shows that using them in that way to that end is not natural, and because God created nature, we can easily see that using them in that way goes against God's established order.  This in itself shows that homosexual acts are not God's intention for the human body, and thus not God's will.  And if a person is operating outside of God's established order, that is sin, plain and simple.

The second thing to look act is a more personal one, and that is whether their sexual acts bring peace or if they bring misery.  Every person can be the judge of this for himself, but if something they do, whatever it is, doesn't bring peace but brings misery, then that act is almost certainly sinful and not the will of God.  Each person can judge this for themselves, so it's not really something that even need be argued here.  You can ask yourself this if you personally have same-sex attraction, or perhaps whatever relative you know that has same-sex attraction can ask this to himself, if that is the case.

One thing I want to say, however, is that it is a lie propagated by our culture today that the person and any sin that they practice are one and the same.  The topic of the thread is surely true, that "homosexuality in and of itself is not a sin".  Another way to say that is that merely having same-sex attraction is not a sin.  The debate is really around whether the homosexual acts are sinful or not.  And there are many ways to go about debating that, but the simplest one is to look at the natural law, and the natural law shows that homosexual acts are not in line with the order in nature established by God.

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #42 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:01:03 »
Hi Catholica,

I and more and more churches now believe that God makes some people homosexual, and honor them for the unique beauty that God created them to be, especially as they have suffered and been persecuted and brutalized for so long now by people claiming to be Christian. It also is a natural part of almost every species as God intended them to be.  It is far from 'unnatural'.

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,500 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study it was found that the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

On the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay bonded together for years or even their entire lives.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #43 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:06:20 »
Hi Catholica,

I and more and more churches now believe that God makes some people homosexual, and honor them for the unique beauty that God created them to be, especially as they have suffered and been persecuted and brutalized for so long now by people claiming to be Christian. It also is a natural part of almost every species as God intended them to be.  It is far from 'unnatural'.

WHY is it that the thought they remain celibate so abhorrent? Why is the thought that one should abstain from sinful behavior so offensive?

Sex outside of marriage as GOD defines it, is sin and should be avoided.  ::shrug:: 

Quote
Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

Solve problems by practicing it?! It is done to force some into submission and establish dominance.  It is neither a kind or loving act!  Not a real good point to bring up to support your claims of beauty.

Quote
The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,500 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study it was found that the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

Oh come one! A homosexual pairing cannot possibly cause a species to survive! There is no chance or reproduction.  ::frown::

Quote
On the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Those "lesbian" mothers would not have anything to raise if not for the counterpart of a male making the babies for them.

Quote
Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay bonded together for years or even their entire lives.

Are we mere animals, who are driven by instinct alone, with no reason or ability to understand morality, or were we not created in the likeness of God, and as such have a higher expectation put on us as to how we conduct ourselves?

Offline Catholica

  • Modal Globerator
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6263
  • Manna: 174
  • Gender: Male
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #44 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:10:11 »
Hi Catholica,

I and more and more churches now believe that God makes some people homosexual, and honor them for the unique beauty that God created them to be, especially as they have suffered and been persecuted and brutalized for so long now by people claiming to be Christian. It also is a natural part of almost every species as God intended them to be.  It is far from 'unnatural'.

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,500 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study it was found that the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

On the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay bonded together for years or even their entire lives.

It is natural for beings to want to feel pleasure.  That doesn't mean that the use of their organs is following the natural law with regard to their organs.  Animals are incapable of committing sin not because their acts would in themselves not be considered sinful if done by humans, but rather because they lack free will and reason to be able to discern whether said acts are morally right or not.

Gorillas in Africa routinely kill each other in territory battles.  That doesn't make killing not a sin.  They also eat their own poop.  That doesn't mean that eating one's own poop is in accord with the natural law.  Clearly the intent of poop is not to eat it.

Therefore the acts of different creatures in nature, while interesting, cannot be a source of whether any certain act is in accord with the natural law, nor can it show whether an act is sinful or not.  We have to look to the order of the things that God created, and what their intent is.

With human sexuality, which is what we are talking about, that order is clear, that genitalia were created to BOTH give pleasure AND reproduce, and not one and not the other, but both at once.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #45 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:11:43 »
Hi Catholica,

I and more and more churches now believe that God makes some people homosexual, and honor them for the unique beauty that God created them to be, especially as they have suffered and been persecuted and brutalized for so long now by people claiming to be Christian. It also is a natural part of almost every species as God intended them to be.  It is far from 'unnatural'.

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,500 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study it was found that the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

On the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay bonded together for years or even their entire lives.

It is natural for beings to want to feel pleasure.  That doesn't mean that the use of their organs is following the natural law with regard to their organs.  Animals are incapable of committing sin not because their acts would in themselves not be considered sinful if done by humans, but rather because they lack free will and reason to be able to discern whether said acts are morally right or not.

Gorillas in Africa routinely kill each other in territory battles.  That doesn't make killing not a sin.  They also eat their own poop.  That doesn't mean that eating one's own poop is in accord with the natural law.  Clearly the intent of poop is not to eat it.

Therefore the acts of different creatures in nature, while interesting, cannot be a source of whether any certain act is in accord with the natural law, nor can it show whether an act is sinful or not.  We have to look to the order of the things that God created, and what their intent is.

With human sexuality, which is what we are talking about, that order is clear, that genitalia were created to BOTH give pleasure AND reproduce, and not one and not the other, but both at once.

 ::applause::  ::amen!::

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #46 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:12:42 »
Hi Memyself,

Two homosexual people joining in love and monogamy through marriage is a beautiful thing, not an ugly one, and if you want to deny basic biology concerning homosexuality in almost all species, of course you can do so.

That said, all bibles are not created equal. The first printed translation of the Bible in English, the Tyndale Bible of 1537, was plagued with errors. Subsequent bibles continued some of the questionable translations of that and earlier bibles, my main point is that we still suffer under the effect of this today. Furthermore, though translations of critical words and phrases have varied over time, translations of the supposedly anti-gay passages seem to have settled into anti-gay translations across Western culture generally (i.e., across different languages, not just in English).

You can compare translations for yourself via a variety of sites. In 2008, Bible Gateway (an online Bible site) had 80 different translations available (20 of these in English); Gateway now has over 130 versions and at least 30 in English.

It is even possible to go back further than that. Bibles before the Tyndale Bible were, of course, hand-written. The Wycliffe Bible of 1385, based on the Latin Vulgate, was the first translation of the Bible into English.

Although the Wycliffe Bible had simply been a translation of the Vulgate into English, the Tyndale Bible largely returned to the oldest available sources in the original Bible languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. This was closely followed by the Great Bible of 1539, the first translation authorized by the Church of England; but it had relied more heavily on the Vulgate, and it contained lines from the Vulgate that were absent from the original texts.

In 1568 the authorized Bishops Bible replaced it; with the exception of the Apocrypha, it was entirely from original sources (whereas the Tyndale Bible was perhaps only 4/5 from originals). This Bible, however, suffered from inconsistencies because it had been produced by many hands without an overall editor; it had un-singable Psalms, and scholars attacked it for inaccuracies. Furthermore, the Geneva Bible of 1560 – first printed in England in 1575 – had language that was more powerful and easier to understand. But the powers-that-be – especially Puritans – were seriously offended by marginal notes in the Geneva Bible (which had a Calvinist character), so in 1604 it was decided that an official, authorized text was needed for the Church of England. This in 1611 yielded the version called the King James Version.

Although not highly valued when it was new, the language of the KJV has been burnished by time, and it is beloved today for its beauty. Unfortunately, inevitable changes in language have rendered it obscure or opaque to modern eyes in places, and the twentieth century began to see many attempts to update the Bible so that it returned to full understandability.

Be aware, however, that ‘understandable’ is not the same as ‘accurate.’ Mistranslation began with the first Bible in English, the Wycliffe Bible. A particularly well-known example of this is the word ‘abomination’ as applied to homosexuals. The 1385 Wycliffe Bible used it in Leviticus 18:22, and the 1537 Tyndale Bible used it in Leviticus 20:13 as well. Thereafter, at any time in the process that original scriptures were used, the word could have been more accurately translated, but for whatever reason, the term ‘abomination’ persisted in Leviticus until well into the 20th century.

This single word is not the only problem affecting passages that supposedly refer to homosexuals. It is merely one of a set of problems that have interfered with a proper understanding of those passages that many assume indicate what the attitude of God might be toward those children of God who are homosexual.


Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30930
  • Manna: 538
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #47 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:13:02 »
It's interesting that the people who claim that marriage is only for one man and one women in the Bible never mention or seem to be aware of the following (I'm not promoting polygamy, but simply pointing out their inconsistency on the subject):

Lamech practiced polygamy (Genesis 4:19). Abraham likewise had more than one wife (Genesis 16:3-4; 25:6 "concubines"). Nahor, Abraham's brother, had both a wife and a concubine (Genesis 11:29; 22:20-24). Jacob was tricked into polygamy (Genesis 29:20-30), yet later he received two additional wives making a grand total of four wives (Genesis 30:4, 9). Esau took on a third wife hoping it might please his father Isaac (Genesis 28:6-9). Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives (1 Chronicles 4:5). Michael, Obadiah, Joel, Ishiah, and those with them "had many wives" (1 Chronicles 7:3-4). Shaharaim had at least four wives, two of which he "sent away" (1 Chronicles 8:8-11). Caleb had two wives (1 Chronicles 2:18) and two concubines (1 Chronicles 2:46, 48). Gideon had many wives (Judges 8:30). Elkanah is recorded as having two wives, one of which was the godly woman Hannah (1 Samuel 1:1-2, 8-2:10).

David, "a man after God's own heart" (1 Samuel 13:14; Acts 13:22), had at least 8 wives and 10 concubines (1 Chronicles 1:1-9; 2 Samuel 6:23; 20:3). Solomon, who breached both Deuteronomy 7:1-4 and 17:14-17, had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:1-6). Rehoboam had eighteen wives and sixty concubines (2 Chronicles 11:21), and sought many wives for his sons (1 Chronicles 11:23). Abijah had fourteen wives (2 Chronicles 13:21). Ahab had more than one wife (1 Kings 20:7). Jehoram had wives who were taken captive (2 Chronicles 21:17). Jehoiada the priest gave king Joash two wives (2 Chronicles 24:1-3), and Jehoiachin had more than one wife (2 Kings 24:15). Polygamy is mentioned several times over in the Bible and never once is it condemned.

Polygamy was governed, not forbidden:

Not only is polygamy not forbidden, but God actually gave laws concerning its practice. For example, in Deuteronomy 21 the Lord gave Moses a law regarding a man who had two wives:

"If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and they have borne him children, both the loved and the unloved, and if the firstborn son is of her who is unloved, then it shall be, on the day he bequeaths his possessions to his sons, that he must not bestow firstborn status on the son of the loved wife in preference to the son of the unloved, the true firstborn. But he shall acknowledge the son of the unloved wife as the firstborn by giving him a double portion of all that he has, for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his." (Deuteronomy 21:15-17)

This law does not condemn the man who has two wives. It simply governs how he deals with the offspring.

That stated, Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, let alone forbidding marriage between two people of the same gender. 


Matthew 19v5. spoken by Jesus.

  ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’
Gods word is in the whole Bible, and not just what Jesus said. 

 If you want to discuss polygamy(which was never Gods intention) then start another thread.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #48 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:16:27 »
Hi Memyself,

Two homosexual people joining in love and monogamy through marriage is a beautiful thing, not an ugly one,

According to scripture, this is not so.  God designed marriage and it was Adam and Eve.  THAT is what God called good.  If He winked at homosexuality and the union between two of the same sex, He would have sanctioned it and allowed for it...He didn't.  He clearly speaks against it.

Quote
and if you want to deny basic biology concerning homosexuality in almost all species, of course you can do so.

Where did I do that? That is a false accusation..and not showing Christian love.  Just sayin'.


About your other opinions about the Word...do you feel it is man's word or God's?


Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30930
  • Manna: 538
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #49 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:18:25 »
Hi Catholica,

I and more and more churches now believe that God makes some people homosexual, and honor them for the unique beauty that God created them to be, especially as they have suffered and been persecuted and brutalized for so long now by people claiming to be Christian. It also is a natural part of almost every species as God intended them to be.  It is far from 'unnatural'.

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,500 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study it was found that the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

On the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay bonded together for years or even their entire lives.


 This is all completely irrelevant. As believers we are to follow Gods ways and not do whatever we like regardless. If you are serious about your faith and about following God, then there is no other way.  ::shrug::

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #50 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:20:22 »
Hi ChosenOne,

I was merely listing examples in the Bible of different types of marriages, since the topic of marriage was brought up by someone else.  I wasn't aware it was forbidden to do so.

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8: “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.”

1 Corinthians 7:26-28

"I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that."

So... not everyone is commanded to get married.

Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30930
  • Manna: 538
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #51 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:21:26 »
You said
 Two homosexual people joining in love and monogamy through marriage is a beautiful thing, not an ugly one, and if you want to deny basic biology concerning homosexuality in almost all species, of course you can do so.


 Thats your opinion its not Gods.  Its the worlds opinion but not Gods. Who will you follow, God or your own desires? We have a close friend who is attracted to other men due to childhood sexual abuse. He is a believer and chooses to remain celibate because he KNOWS that its wrong.   
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:00:00 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30930
  • Manna: 538
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #52 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:24:23 »
Hi ChosenOne,

I was merely listing examples in the Bible of different types of marriages, since the topic of marriage was brought up by someone else.  I wasn't aware it was forbidden to do so.

Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 7:7-8: “I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.”

1 Corinthians 7:26-28

"I think that in view of the present distress it is good for a person to remain as he is. Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek a wife. But if you do marry, you have not sinned, and if a betrothed woman marries, she has not sinned. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that."

So... not everyone is commanded to get married.
 

I agree that not everyone will marry, in fact for women in the church many wont marry due to the lack of believing men, and they too should remain celibate. However that's different from a man being with another man or a woman with another woman. 

Offline Catholica

  • Modal Globerator
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6263
  • Manna: 174
  • Gender: Male
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #53 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:29:27 »
Just wanted to post this again so that it doesn't get lost in this high-speed topic.

Hi Catholica,

I and more and more churches now believe that God makes some people homosexual, and honor them for the unique beauty that God created them to be, especially as they have suffered and been persecuted and brutalized for so long now by people claiming to be Christian. It also is a natural part of almost every species as God intended them to be.  It is far from 'unnatural'.

Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.

The pairing of same sex couples had previously been observed in more than 1,500 species including penguins, dolphins and primates.

However, in the latest study it was found that the phenomenon is not only widespread but part of a necessary biological adaptation for the survival of the species.

On the Hawaiian island of Oahu, almost a third of the Laysan albatross population is raised by pairs of two females because of the shortage of males. Through these 'lesbian' unions, Laysan albatross are flourishing. Their existence had been dwindling before the adaptation was noticed.

Homosexuality is also quite common among dolphins and killer whales. The pairing of males and females is fleeting, while between males, a pair can stay bonded together for years or even their entire lives.

It is natural for beings to want to feel pleasure.  That doesn't mean that the use of their organs is following the natural law with regard to their organs.  Animals are incapable of committing sin not because their acts would in themselves not be considered sinful if done by humans, but rather because they lack free will and reason to be able to discern whether said acts are morally right or not.

Gorillas in Africa routinely kill each other in territory battles.  That doesn't make killing not a sin.  They also eat their own poop.  That doesn't mean that eating one's own poop is in accord with the natural law.  Clearly the intent of poop is not to eat it.

Therefore the acts of different creatures in nature, while interesting, cannot be a source of whether any certain act is in accord with the natural law, nor can it show whether an act is sinful or not.  We have to look to the order of the things that God created, and what their intent is.

With human sexuality, which is what we are talking about, that order is clear, that genitalia were created to BOTH give pleasure AND reproduce, and not one and not the other, but both at once.

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #54 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:37:58 »
We'll just have to agree to disagree ChosenOne, and as I pointed out before, I am not alone in my Christian belief. There are millions of other Christians in many different denominations who agree with me.

This is why more and more congregations perform same-sex marriage now.

In justifying themselves, people who are anti-gay uniformly give a single response when asked why being gay is so bad: “Because the Bible says it is an abomination.”

This is, indeed, usually the end of the discussion; the response is an unreasoned one, not ever having been subjected to serious examination (and certainly not based on study of what the Bible actually says in the original.)

If pressed, though, some people can add a little to the immediate ‘abomination’ answer. When they do this, their reasons fall into four natural groups.

"It’s not natural."

This is a sham argument having nothing to do with nature or anything that happens in it. Skyscrapers, toilets, medicine, fertility treatments, and clothing do not occur in nature. Cannibalism does occur, as does monogamy, but both are rare and could be considered un-natural.

On the other hand, homosexuality has been observed in perhaps 30% of species which have been studied. In Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity, Bruce Bagemihl discusses the homosexual activity that has been documented in over 1500 different species of animals, showing that it is clearly a ‘natural’ part of sexual diversity.

The reality is that the absence of homosexuality would be unnatural. And it seems to occur in all cultures, without regard for the norms of a culture.

"It’s a perversion."

This is little more than a variation of the  argument above, just with a religious cast to it. As such, of course, it has no place in a society committed to the separation of church and state; in such a society the moral basis for law rests on the benefits to society from instituting a law, not from some predetermined religious system.

"It’s against God’s law."

This argument is, of course, purely religious; without specifically stating the fact, it maintains that homosexuals ought to be bound by the particular religious principles of the proponent, whatever they may be. And, yes, these differ dramatically. Why? When the first parts of the Bible were written down 2900 years ago, people were using a vocabulary (there are 30,000 words in the Bible) that was half the size of an educated person’s today (60,000, not including technical terms); and neither the vocabulary nor the scientific approach existed to make precisely scientific descriptions and explanations an option for people of the time. Language simply had to be metaphoric.

The result is that determining exactly what God’s Law is is a real challenge. Furthermore, the languages that God’s revelation to His people was originally written in – Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek – have changed so much since the original writing that even these languages’ modern equivalents require translation of the scriptures.

Fortunately, a comparison of the Dead Sea Scrolls with the oldest texts we had before their discovery shows that the effects on meaning of a thousand years of copying have been minor. Still, the task of deciphering God’s law remains. God’s law is silent on the subject of homosexuality, no matter what you have heard.

"It’s against family values."

Hello? Has anyone ever looked at the families in the Bible? There are Adam’s (one son murders the other), Abraham’s (whose wife gets a servant pregnant by Abraham and then mistreats her), Jacob’s (he stole his brother’s birthright), Jephthah’s (he had to sacrifice his only child to God in return for victory in war), Saul’s (he goes crazy), and David’s (he gets his general killed so that he can have his wife, and his son Amnon rapes his daughter, Tamar). At best, these are dysfunctional examples of family values.

There are, of course, a handful of people who have genuinely investigated a theological dimension to the issue of homosexuality. Their approach tends to begin with the premises that a homosexual orientation is a choice that, once made, leads to a destructive lifestyle of promiscuity, disease, hopelessness, dramatically lower life expectancy – one that is also somehow destructive to family values.

For a moment, set aside the awesome illogic and junk science behind this position. It maintains that the righteous Christian has an obligation to oppose such a lifestyle in any way possible and to compel such sinners to turn to God. This is called “Dire Consequences Theology;” it holds that permitting such sordid lifestyles would inevitably lead to a decline or destruction of moral society, and a Christian must try to compel gays to abandon a choice which afflicts them with such deadly consequences.

The position entails the assertion that God richly rewards righteous faith – i.e., following God’s path leads to health, wealth, and happiness – and that the absence of these is clear evidence of estrangement from God’s path for us. Ignore for a moment the existence of birth defects on infants who are profoundly innocent of sin; ignore the incidence of cancer or dementia; ignore crippling automobile accidents; ignore Jesus’ own warnings that those who choose His path would face ostracism, violence, suffering, and death – after all, people who claim to adhere to the piece of non-theology above ignore these things.

The fact is that this high-sounding philosophy is nothing but a mask for bigotry. Some people need to disguise their innate insecurity by projecting it onto others, and in this case that means denying people the protections and benefits decreed by a civil state but rather showering those who are different with insult and physical abuse. And despite a pretense of encouraging people to change sexual orientations and rejoin society, the plain fact is that the “ex-gay” effort basically involves convincing people to accept a celibate lifestyle and for the rest of their lives abandon any hope of an intimate mate. Without any exaggeration, this attitude leads to church-sponsored suicide.

In spite of Jesus’ message of love, many people who mistakenly call themselves Christians seem to feel that being righteous justifies psychological and physical torture of homosexuals, sometimes including murder. Such people fail to comprehend that no one can be compelled to love Christ or anyone else. The very most this approach can do is force people to try to deny a basic part of themselves and avoid persecution by pretending to be ‘straight.’ This is to say that it fosters dishonesty (apparently a ‘family value’).

In the real world, if homosexuals were spared the abuse of such people, most would live their lives relatively free of misery. No, this doesn’t deny the belief that genuine peace and happiness cannot come without Christ; many have found an emptiness and hunger of soul corrected only when they have found Christ. But love cannot be compelled. Forced conversions only create the illusion of success.

And an approach that is superficial and not based in genuine love cannot help but be inadequate when faced with homosexual lives that are neither plaintive nor quietly desperate but rather marked with apparent happiness and material prosperity. God’s plan, whatever it may be, is of a certainty not accessible to people who do not begin from a standpoint of love and caring; and the question of why God permits good people – whether gay or not – to suffer is a fundamental one for any faith.

Dire Consequences Theology, therefore, is only something of a self-fulfilling prophesy. Homosexuality has dire consequences largely because people who believe in the philosophy make it have consequences. Without the psychological (and physical) violence that they impose on gays, lesbians, and transsexuals – not to mention people of other religions and races, or on anyone different from themselves – the consequences would be solely on an individual level and without an effect on society whatever.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #55 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:47:50 »
Dire Consequences Theology, therefore, is only something of a self-fulfilling prophesy. Homosexuality has dire consequences largely because people who believe in the philosophy make it have consequences.

There are consequences for sin that are far beyond what man "makes" happen.  That is why we stand up, in the Body of Christ, and speak out against sin.  We are concerned for peoples' eternity.

Quote
Without the psychological (and physical) violence that they impose on gays, lesbians, and transsexuals – not to mention people of other religions and races, or on anyone different from themselves – the consequences would be solely on an individual level and without an effect on society whatever.

My belief is that those that perpetuate violence against those they disagree with, even if they claim it to be in the name of God, are NOT Christians and are lying to make God's people look foolish and untrustworthy.

I disagree that rampant sin has no consequence on society.  Look at Sodom and Gomorrah.  Look at Rome before its "fall".  Look at the nation of America.  More and more sin is becoming 'legal' in the eyes of man..and our society is suffering (just like it did in those ancient times).

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15352
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #56 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:50:02 »
That stated, Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, let alone forbidding marriage between two people of the same gender. 

True.  But there is a LOT of Torah (OT scriptures) that He never mentioned because He was not changing any of that.  If it was well understood by his audience and he was not changing it, why mention it? - OR  - if He DID mention it; the gospel authors thought it redundant and left it out. (paper was VERY expensive in those days)

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #57 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:51:38 »
I agree with you that rampant sin is 'not' good for society.  I did not say it was.

As for Sodom, it was not homosexuality that was her sin: Ezekiel 16:49: "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #58 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:53:31 »
I agree with you that rampant sin is 'not' good for society.  I did not say it was.

As for Sodom, it was not homosexuality that was her sin: Ezekiel 16:49: "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy."

No..that was ONE sin there in.  Homosexuality was another.  The sin was rampant.

Offline DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15352
  • Manna: 191
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #59 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 10:59:48 »
You completely ignore that the original Greek words by Paul do not condemn homosexuality between adult males, but only very specific and abusive relationships.

No - Paul said nothing about "abusive relationships."  You are ignoring a proper translation by an academically noted Greek Scholar; probably because it conflicts with your agenda here.

Paul's statement is based firmly on this:

Leviticus 20:13  If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.

That is plain as can be.  Jesus did not contradict it and neither did Paul. It stands as is.

And if you want to argue that was ONLY for OT Jews - read Acts 15.  "Pornia" (translated fornication) is prohibited from Gentile New Covenant believers.  As far as I can tell pornia was used by the greek speaking diaspora Jews to mean anything that violated Torah sexual commands - including the prohibition on homosexuality.
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:02:06 by DaveW »

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #60 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:06:36 »
No memyself.. The word 'homosexuality' was never mentioned in the original Greek.

As I've pointed out before, that is a false translation.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #61 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:13:58 »
No memyself.. The word 'homosexuality' was never mentioned in the original Greek.

As I've pointed out before, that is a false translation.

The behavior of it was mentioned.  And, just because they didn't use the exact word we do today, does not mean it is not in the Scripture and spoken against.  God speaks against it, many times and makes it clear that participating in it displeases Him...just like using His name in vain, stealing, lying, slandering, worshiping anything but Him, coveting, being jealous, etc.etc. etc.

Sin grieves God's heart, and we are ALL called to set aside the sin that so easily entangles us.  I don't like it that I have to give up my "pet" sins either, but I do.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #62 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:17:52 »
As I've pointed out before, that is a false translation.

Just as an aside...where does this claim of "false translation" stop?

The drunkard doesn't like being called out, nor the idolators, the adulterers, prostitutes, thieves, the greedy, slanderers or swindlers either....

what is stopping them from claiming that the passages that speak out against their behavior is a false translation and therefore, can just be flushed away and ignored?  Its a slippery slope you play on I am very afraid.

 

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #63 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:26:22 »
Memyself,  what about the following do you not understand?

If Paul had wanted to condemn homosexual behavior in general, the word for it at the time was paiderasste. What he did, rather than simply use one of the many existing, quite precise Greek terms for aspects of homosexuality (or for homosexuality in general) – words that he would have been quite aware of – is create an entirely new word: "arsenokoitai"

At the time of Martin Luther, "arsenokoitai" was universally interpreted as masturbator. But by the 20th century, masturbation had become a more generally accepted behavior. So, new translations abandoned references to masturbators and switched the attack to homosexuals. The last religious writing in English that interpreted 1 Corinthians 6:9 as referring to masturbation is believed to be the [Roman] Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967.

Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #64 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:34:43 »
Memyself,  what about the following do you not understand?

Well....that has a snarky rude ring to it...was that your intent?

Quote
If Paul had wanted to condemn homosexual behavior in general, the word for it at the time was paiderasste. What he did, rather than simply use one of the many existing, quite precise Greek terms for aspects of homosexuality (or for homosexuality in general) – words that he would have been quite aware of – is create an entirely new word: "arsenokoitai"

With all due respect. Hog wash.  There have been other posters that have addressed your claim above.

Ps. Paul didn't condemn anything...God was speaking through him, and God is clear about it being sin.

Quote
At the time of Martin Luther, "arsenokoitai" was universally interpreted as masturbator. But by the 20th century, masturbation had become a more generally accepted behavior. So, new translations abandoned references to masturbators and switched the attack to homosexuals. The last religious writing in English that interpreted 1 Corinthians 6:9 as referring to masturbation is believed to be the [Roman] Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967.

"new" translations abandoned and switched...isn't that what you are doing?

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5593
  • Manna: 461
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #65 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:37:09 »
Aaron--

As someone pointed out below---one can be "tempted" in a certain direction and not sin. Temptation is not
sin. The below verse could very well be including homosexuals when Jesus spoke the words:

"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." (Matt. 19:12A)

But, we must also remember that a eunuch is a person who does not engage in sex. As I mentioned in an earlier post--I believe I was born
with the tendency towards alcoholism. It is necessary then that I be a person who does not consume alcohol. It may appear "unfair" because
so many other people can have a beer or glass of wine without experiencing the same problem I have. But I must face it--alcoholism and
drunkenness is a SIN---so I MUST abstain. I have become a "eunuch" when it comes to alcohol--I do not engage in drinking.
The homosexual must do the same--they must abstain from that which God calls sinful.

But, I must state most joyfully, that Jesus has so consumed my life and filled me with such hope and joy, that I rarely even think of alcohol
at all.  HOWEVER, it is part of my old nature--so I must keep guard. 

Aaron----   Jesus truly loves you. You must call sin "SIN" and repent. "If any man be in Christ he is a NEW CREATION, behold old things have
passed away, and all things are new"
. (2 Cor. 5:17). The Lord will give you a new nature and the more you follow Christ, the less that inclination
to sin will take place.  Don't continue to defend your sin, and make excuses for it---even to the point of trying to reinterpret the Bible. Accept what the
Bible says and conform your life to it.  It will be the best decision you have ever made!
« Last Edit: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:40:16 by fish153 »

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #66 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:39:36 »
Memyself...not snarky, but you 'do' seem to be blatantly ignoring the fact that the word 'homosexuality' has only recently been put into Bibles, and that it is a completely false translation of 'arsenokoitai', so what am I to think other than that you somehow cannot understand it?

It is the apostle Paul that made all three supposed mentions of homosexuals in the New Testament. Paul’s fundamental message throughout his writing is that God’s love is all-inclusive, i.e., not that God doesn’t love homosexuals. His letter to Christians in Rome, chapter 1, verses 26 and 27, involve him railing at former Christians who knew God but yet who suppressed truth and chose to worship idols instead.

Paul’s letter to the church in Rome was written to people immersed in Roman culture. Here homosexual behavior was simply a part of the normal environment, unnoticeable (as it also was in Corinth), but Paul’s concern and focus was on pagan religious worship and rituals and their degrading effects on people who had abandoned God and returned to them. Sadly, God let them sink into the natural consequences of their choice – irresponsibility, ignorance, arrogance, and disease.

In the original Greek, the phrase translated as ‘vile affections’ in the KJV does not describe the passions in a normal marriage (or sexually active relationship); instead it characterizes the orgiastic mind-state that pagan rituals created by using alcohol and/or drugs.

The people in these rituals are not homosexuals at all but rather heterosexual Christians who had returned to paganism and, as a part of its rituals, not only engaged in heterosexual orgies but, under the effects of peer pressure and stimulants, abandoned their inborn sexual orientation to indulge in same-sex activities (the implication being that “received in themselves” refers to sexually-transmitted diseases, epidemic among such cults at the time). The larger context as a whole deals with people who reject God – and therefore is irrelevant to loving Christians (or Jews or Muslims). And in focusing on lust, it is irrelevant to people in or in search of long-term relationships. Paul’s letter is a commentary both on variation from a person’s faith and from his/her inborn nature. Homosexuals and committed relationships are completely absent here.

Jd34

  • Guest
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #67 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:40:25 »
It certainly isn't a sin to love someone but if these statistics are correct ( and by me being friends and knowing a lot of the gay community- they seem to be).. It has sin written all over it and on many different levels. The first one is Lust.
http://carm.org/statistics-homosexual-promiscuity

I don't think you need the bible to see the problems associated with this behavioral life style. I love all of my gay friends but for some "reason" , they seem to always be searching for something more so than my strait friends....And ALWAYS have a need to proclaim their gayness and a need to justify.  I have always wondered where exactly does that insecurity come from?

Maybe the OP can explain that..






Offline MeMyself

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15980
  • Manna: 382
  • Gender: Female
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #68 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:40:54 »
Aaron--

As someone pointed out below---one can be "tempted" in a certain direction and not sin. Temptation is not
sin. The below verse could very well be including homosexuals when Jesus spoke the words:

"For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others--and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it." (Matt. 19:12A)

But, we must also remember that a eunuch is a person who does not engage in sex. As I mentioned in an earlier post--I believe I was born
with the tendency towards alcoholism. It is necessary then that I be a person who does not consume alcohol. It may appear "unfair" because
so many other people can have a beer or glass of wine without experiencing the same problem I have. But I must face it--alcoholism and
drunkenness is a SIN---so I MUST abstain. I have become a "eunuch" when it comes to alcohol--I do not engage in drinking.
The homosexual must do the same--they must abstain from that which God calls sinful.

But, I must state most joyfully, that Jesus has so consumed my life and filled me with such hope and joy, that I rarely even think of alcohol
at all.  HOWEVER, it is part of my old nature--so I must keep guard. 

Aaron----   Jesus truly loves you. You must call sin "SIN" and repent. "If any man be in Christ he is a NEW CREATION, behold old things have
passed away, and all things are new"
. (2 Cor. 5:17). The Lord will give you a new nature and the more you follow Christ, the less that inclination
to sin will take place.  Don't continue to defend your sin, and make excuses for it---even to the point of trying to reinterpret the Bible. Accept what the
Bible says and conform your life to it.  It will be the best decision you have ever made!

Good post!

Offline Aaron Lindahl

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: Homosexuality in and of itself is 'not' a sin in the Bible..
« Reply #69 on: Fri Dec 05, 2014 - 11:41:03 »
Fish, thank you, and I'm glad that you have Jesus in your life. I'm well aware that Jesus loves me and I have nothing to repent of concerning this discussion.