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Author Topic: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE  (Read 7820 times)

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Offline INJ

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How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« on: Sun Dec 18, 2011 - 16:49:24 »
There is much talk on this forum about obedience. Now, any "good" Christian wants to please the Lord Jesus Christ. Any "Good" Christian wants to be obedient to the Lords command. But what if the fundamentals are all wrong.....I will cover that in a moment.

We are aware that in the last days (we are in the last days) many with turn away from sound doctrine and follow the doctrine of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). One of the worst deceptions has two extremes and it all centres around Grace. The first preach a Grace which allows such licence that immorality is acceptable.  The second whilst acknowledging Grace, then goes to build on that foundation rules and regulations and eventually does away with Grace altogether and observes ritual, laws, and unwittingly enters into witchcraft (the knowledge of God and evil - rebellion)

It needs to be said that the Grace of Jesus Christ, is first of all a gift, Charis (Greek) - also means thank you. Grace is a gift and cannot be added to because it is complete. Grace itself cannot be separated from who Jesus Christ is and so if Grace is rejected or maligned, Jesus Christ is rejected or maligned. People often say that Grace means unmerited favour, but what does this mean? Unmerited favour means, being made right with God, having Gods favour, without earning it, without merit, without self work, not rooted in our own achievement or obedience and totally undeserved.

So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear. Fear is the enemy of faith and counters it, and is rooted in doubt. We only need a small amount of faith, even only as small as a mustard seed, but if we doubt we are tossed around and are double minded - we will not receive anything from the Lord in such a state. But if we do not doubt we can say to a mountain be removed and it will be. The faith we receive is actually the faith of God, it is not our own, it cannot fail.

So going back to the original question "How to please the Lord?". Would you believe it if I told you that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ then you already do. You are hidden with Christ in God. Would you believe that even if you are not a believer it if freely available for you to receive - GRACE. It doesn't matter what you have done, where you have been, how evil you are, JESUS died for you. You know about Sin, but God wants you to know about Jesus. Every doctrine that talks about God but makes you concentrate on something other than Jesus Christ is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So if you want to please the Lord, you can't. No-one can. Only Jesus can please God, but you can have his righteousness, his nature, his relationship with God his father if you believe that Jesus lived, died and rose again because he loved you. He came to the earth for you and to purchase you through his blood. So you would no longer struggle with sin but be alive to God.

Accept the Grace of God, and be thankful.



« Last Edit: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 04:54:37 by INJ »

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How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« on: Sun Dec 18, 2011 - 16:49:24 »

larry2

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #1 on: Sun Dec 18, 2011 - 21:14:09 »
A good sermon indeed. It brings to mind the hymn: "When I see the Blood."
Small | Large


Thank you in Jesus' name.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #1 on: Sun Dec 18, 2011 - 21:14:09 »

Offline Sinead

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #2 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:29:56 »
There is much talk on this forum about obedience. Now, any "good" Christian wants to please the Lord Jesus Christ. Any "Good" Christian wants to be obedient to the Lords command. But what if the fundamentals are all wrong.....I will cover that in a moment.

We are aware that in the last days (we are in the last days) many with turn away from sound doctrine and follow the doctrine of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). One of the worst deceptions has two extremes and it all centres around Grace. The first preach a Grace which allows such licence that immorality is acceptable.  The second whilst acknowledging Grace, then goes to build on that foundation rules and regulations and eventually does away with Grace altogether and observes ritual, laws, and unwittingly enters into witchcraft (the knowledge of God and evil - rebellion)

It needs to be said that the Grace of Jesus Christ, is first of all a gift, Charis (Greek) - also means thank you. Grace is a gift and cannot be added to because it is complete. Grace itself cannot be separated from who Jesus Christ is and so if Grace is rejected or maligned, Jesus Christ is rejected or maligned. People often say that Grace means unmerited favour, but what does this mean? Unmerited favour means, being made right with God, having Gods favour, without earning it, without merit, without self work, not rooted in our own achievement or obedience and totally undeserved.

So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear. Fear is the enemy of faith and counters it, and is rooted in doubt. We only need a small amount of faith, even only as small as a mustard seed, but if we doubt we are tossed around and are double minded - we will not receive anything from the Lord in such a state. But if we do not doubt we can say to a mountain be removed and it will be. The faith we receive is actually the faith of God, it is not our own, it cannot fail.

So going back to the original question "How to please the Lord?". Would you believe it if I told you that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ then you already do. You are hidden with Christ in God. Would you believe that even if you are not a believer it if freely available for you to receive - GRACE. It doesn't matter what you have done, where you have been, how evil you are, JESUS died for you. You know about Sin, but God wants you to know about Jesus. Every doctrine that talks about God but makes you concentrate on something other than Jesus Christ is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So if you want to please the Lord, you can't. No-one can. Only Jesus can please God, but you can have his righteousness, his nature, his relationship with God his father if you believe that Jesus lived, died and rose again because he loved you. He came to the earth for you and to purchase you through his blood. So you would no longer struggle with sin but be alive to God.

Accept the Grace of God, and be thankful.





It's not that people are adding to it but rather, a person isn't saved just because they asked the Lord into their life at one point in time.
You can't live an immoral life away from Him and then still expect to be going to heaven.
Jesus warns that if He cut the Jews off which are His chosen people - how easy would it be to cut the gentiles off if they do not remain in Him and obey His commands?

Offline Jimmy

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #3 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:49:02 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #3 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 05:49:02 »

Offline INJ

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #4 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:51:23 »
There is much talk on this forum about obedience. Now, any "good" Christian wants to please the Lord Jesus Christ. Any "Good" Christian wants to be obedient to the Lords command. But what if the fundamentals are all wrong.....I will cover that in a moment.

We are aware that in the last days (we are in the last days) many with turn away from sound doctrine and follow the doctrine of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). One of the worst deceptions has two extremes and it all centres around Grace. The first preach a Grace which allows such licence that immorality is acceptable.  The second whilst acknowledging Grace, then goes to build on that foundation rules and regulations and eventually does away with Grace altogether and observes ritual, laws, and unwittingly enters into witchcraft (the knowledge of God and evil - rebellion)

It needs to be said that the Grace of Jesus Christ, is first of all a gift, Charis (Greek) - also means thank you. Grace is a gift and cannot be added to because it is complete. Grace itself cannot be separated from who Jesus Christ is and so if Grace is rejected or maligned, Jesus Christ is rejected or maligned. People often say that Grace means unmerited favour, but what does this mean? Unmerited favour means, being made right with God, having Gods favour, without earning it, without merit, without self work, not rooted in our own achievement or obedience and totally undeserved.

So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear. Fear is the enemy of faith and counters it, and is rooted in doubt. We only need a small amount of faith, even only as small as a mustard seed, but if we doubt we are tossed around and are double minded - we will not receive anything from the Lord in such a state. But if we do not doubt we can say to a mountain be removed and it will be. The faith we receive is actually the faith of God, it is not our own, it cannot fail.

So going back to the original question "How to please the Lord?". Would you believe it if I told you that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ then you already do. You are hidden with Christ in God. Would you believe that even if you are not a believer it if freely available for you to receive - GRACE. It doesn't matter what you have done, where you have been, how evil you are, JESUS died for you. You know about Sin, but God wants you to know about Jesus. Every doctrine that talks about God but makes you concentrate on something other than Jesus Christ is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So if you want to please the Lord, you can't. No-one can. Only Jesus can please God, but you can have his righteousness, his nature, his relationship with God his father if you believe that Jesus lived, died and rose again because he loved you. He came to the earth for you and to purchase you through his blood. So you would no longer struggle with sin but be alive to God.

Accept the Grace of God, and be thankful.


It's not that people are adding to it but rather, a person isn't saved just because they asked the Lord into their life at one point in time.
You can't live an immoral life away from Him and then still expect to be going to heaven.

Jesus warns that if He cut the Jews off which are His chosen people - how easy would it be to cut the gentiles off if they do not remain in Him and obey His commands?

I completely understand what you are saying, but there is a catch in what you are saying.

Are you the Lord? I know you are not.  ::smile:: God looks on the heart and not the outward appearance, he knows those who are his.  ::nodding:: He knows those who are born again of his spirit.  ::nodding:: He knows those who are not.  ::nodding:: He knows those who are born again but are babes and struggling with sin and those who pretend to be saved and live a life of sin.  ::nodding:: There is a huge difference.

If you look at the Corinthian church it had worse issues than any body or group of believers that I know about, prostitution, iciest, idol worship, orgies, etc but these in the main where born again believers. So how did Paul respond? He responded by preaching the word of God, letting them know who Christ was, teaching about error and using his authority in Grace. He only expelled one that I am aware of who was so immoral even the unbelievers would be shocked by the conduct, and that was because they not only refused to repent but boasted about it, but even this was done in love.

Nowadays, many Christians have forgotten the Kingdom of God principle - seed - time - harvest. Once the word of God is sown it takes time to see the fruit. In fact the deeper the root of the word of God the longer it will take for anyone to see a change, but how amazing the crop will be once it is ripe unto harvest. Look at the parable of the sower, do we really believe what Jesus is saying here, that the one who received the word immediately and springs up quickly will not survive?

The problem you see is that law, rules and commands ( (OT Style) and pseudo NT ) make people behave outwardly, not inwardly. If has no power to change the heart. They have a form of Godliness but deny its power (2 Tim 3:5), and it is based on human reasoning and not the Holy Spirit nor the Kingdom of God. It is again based on fear and control, please remember that control and manipulation is actually the root of witchcraft.

So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved, and once someone is saved they do not always display the right fruit immediately and if it is of God the fruit that will last will be produced later. But people are impatient, they want instant results. They want everyone to be the same, not real growth but it looks good, behaves good and then people are shocked when they leave church or quit a few years down the line. But it is true that those who are born of God do not want to sin, they have the Holy Spirit who leads them into all truth, but if someone does sin we have an advocate Jesus Christ.

It is not by might nor by power but by God's Spirit. God is not mocked everyone reaps what they sow.

If we had a church that looked messy to begin with but allowed the Holy Spirit to work on people as the undiluted word of God was preached we would have a powerful witness of Christ to the nations.

I have said many things that could be misinterpreted, so I ask that you hear with your spiritual ears. Jesus builds his church...get out the way.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #4 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:51:23 »



Offline INJ

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #5 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 06:52:37 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #6 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:05:11 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.

Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #7 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:20:29 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #8 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:32:40 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

You need to be careful in your words regarding God. God never lies

American King James Version (Eph 2:8)
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #9 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:33:30 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

That at the very least.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #10 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:37:49 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

You need to be careful in your words regarding God. God never lies

American King James Version (Eph 2:8)
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


You are correct, God never lies.  That is why your interpretation of Eph 2:8 has to be wrong.  And you are the one who, by incorrect interpretation, have inferred that God is a liar.

The "it" in Eph 2:8 is not faith.  Strictly speaking the "it" in Eph 2:8 is not grace either, even though grace may be considered a gift. The gift is that "by grace you have been saved THROUGH faith".  The is the gift is salvation.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #11 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:38:32 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.

Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:18-21 (NLT)

18“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.g

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #12 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:39:31 »
INJ
The bible declares that God is no respecter of persons.  So if He picks out certain people to give faith to that is a false statement.  However, God is not a liar because He is not a respecter of persons.  I was simply denying your point with logic.  

p.rehbein

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #13 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:41:10 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.

Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gotta go with Jimmy on this one, faith is something we (man) must display.  Grace is surely a gift from God, but we must choose to believe in Him (Jesus Christ) in order to receive that gift of Grace.

(I also noted that OSAS got slipped in there...............  ::smile::)


[So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved]


                                                                                    

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #14 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:42:21 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.

Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

John 3:18-21 (NLT)

18“There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.g

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #15 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:45:21 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.


Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gotta go with Jimmy on this one, faith is something we (man) must display.  Grace is surely a gift from God, but we must choose to believe in Him (Jesus Christ) in order to receive that gift of Grace.

(I also noted that OSAS got slipped in there...............  ::smile::)


[So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved]
                                                                                    

OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #16 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:50:13 »
The topic itself is null if there is nothing we do.  If both faith and grace are gifts then we do nothing to "please the Lord"  He simply decides who will get His gifts.  That is not consistent with the nature of God nor scripture.

p.rehbein

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #17 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 07:56:15 »


[OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.]

tell that to INJ, he's got it hand in hand with this idea of faith being a gift from God, and he ties it into his justification of the OP.

 ::shrug::

He said:

"So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved, and once someone is saved they do not always display the right fruit immediately and if it is of God the fruit that will last will be produced later. But people are impatient, they want instant results. They want everyone to be the same, not real growth but it looks good, behaves good and then people are shocked when they leave church or quit a few years down the line. But it is true that those who are born of God do not want to sin, they have the Holy Spirit who leads them into all truth, but if someone does sin we have an advocate Jesus Christ."

-------------------------------------------------------------

my point being that one misconception seems to lead to others, as in this case...............


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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #18 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:02:53 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

You need to be careful in your words regarding God. God never lies

American King James Version (Eph 2:8)
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


You are correct, God never lies.  That is why your interpretation of Eph 2:8 has to be wrong.  And you are the one who, by incorrect interpretation, have inferred that God is a liar.

The "it" in Eph 2:8 is not faith.  Strictly speaking the "it" in Eph 2:8 is not grace either, even though grace may be considered a gift. The gift is that "by grace you have been saved THROUGH faith".  The is the gift is salvation.

Jimmy, in the Greek there is no "it" not of yourselves, gift of God

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #19 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:03:48 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.


Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gotta go with Jimmy on this one, faith is something we (man) must display.  Grace is surely a gift from God, but we must choose to believe in Him (Jesus Christ) in order to receive that gift of Grace.

(I also noted that OSAS got slipped in there...............  ::smile::)


[So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved]
                                                                                    

OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.

Well your logic may be at odds with the word of God look at my response in regards to the gift of God

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #20 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:08:37 »
INJ,

You have inappropriately equated faith and grace.  Grace and faith are not the same thing.  You asked,

Quote
So if Grace means being made right with God, which is does, through no act or righteousness of our own. Why do people try to add to it? Well, a simple answer would be lack of faith, which is based on fear, and no-one can be perfected in fear.

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.

I have not equated incorrectly Jimmy.Grace and faith is God's part they are both a gift.


Then why does He not give the gift of faith to everyone? 

1Tim 2:4  [God] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Gotta go with Jimmy on this one, faith is something we (man) must display.  Grace is surely a gift from God, but we must choose to believe in Him (Jesus Christ) in order to receive that gift of Grace.

(I also noted that OSAS got slipped in there...............  ::smile::)


[So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved]
                                                                                    

OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.

Jimmy, faith is a gift. So is salvation, so is faith ...so IS JESUS

Offline INJ

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #21 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:11:19 »
The topic itself is null if there is nothing we do.  If both faith and grace are gifts then we do nothing to "please the Lord"  He simply decides who will get His gifts.  That is not consistent with the nature of God nor scripture.

The topic is not null - whilst grace and faith are a gift - we please the Lord by remaining in his grace, his love, and being manifest more of the nature of God day by day - relying and communing with him

Offline INJ

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #22 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:15:20 »


[OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.]

tell that to INJ, he's got it hand in hand with this idea of faith being a gift from God, and he ties it into his justification of the OP.

 ::shrug::

He said:

"So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved, and once someone is saved they do not always display the right fruit immediately and if it is of God the fruit that will last will be produced later. But people are impatient, they want instant results. They want everyone to be the same, not real growth but it looks good, behaves good and then people are shocked when they leave church or quit a few years down the line. But it is true that those who are born of God do not want to sin, they have the Holy Spirit who leads them into all truth, but if someone does sin we have an advocate Jesus Christ."

-------------------------------------------------------------

my point being that one misconception seems to lead to others, as in this case...............



Please do not presume to read my mind, only God can do that. If my words do not suffice, ask.

This is not a misconception nor a strange doctrine. It is the word of God. John Wesley preached the same and a multitude of others. Read the parable of the sower my friend, then get back to me.

Offline Jimmy

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #23 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:37:11 »


[OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.]

tell that to INJ, he's got it hand in hand with this idea of faith being a gift from God, and he ties it into his justification of the OP.

 ::shrug::

He said:

"So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved, and once someone is saved they do not always display the right fruit immediately and if it is of God the fruit that will last will be produced later. But people are impatient, they want instant results. They want everyone to be the same, not real growth but it looks good, behaves good and then people are shocked when they leave church or quit a few years down the line. But it is true that those who are born of God do not want to sin, they have the Holy Spirit who leads them into all truth, but if someone does sin we have an advocate Jesus Christ."

-------------------------------------------------------------

my point being that one misconception seems to lead to others, as in this case...............



Please do not presume to read my mind, only God can do that. If my words do not suffice, ask.

This is not a misconception nor a strange doctrine. It is the word of God. John Wesley preached the same and a multitude of others. Read the parable of the sower my friend, then get back to me.

Your entire argument is a logical fallacy.

If faith is a gift from God and some do not have faith then God has not given them that gift.  It then must be that God has decided not to give the gift to all.  If that is the case, then it can not be said that God desires that all be saved.

Actually, even the title of the thread is in fact an oxymoron.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #24 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:42:35 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

You need to be careful in your words regarding God. God never lies

American King James Version (Eph 2:8)
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


You are correct, God never lies.  That is why your interpretation of Eph 2:8 has to be wrong.  And you are the one who, by incorrect interpretation, have inferred that God is a liar.

The "it" in Eph 2:8 is not faith.  Strictly speaking the "it" in Eph 2:8 is not grace either, even though grace may be considered a gift. The gift is that "by grace you have been saved THROUGH faith".  The is the gift is salvation.

Jimmy, in the Greek there is no "it" not of yourselves, gift of God

From Adam Clarke's commentary:

But whether are we to understand, faith or salvation as being the gift of God? This question is answered by the Greek text: τῃ γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως· και τουτο ουκ εξ ὑμων· Θεου το δωρον, ουκ εξ εργων· ἱνα μη τις καυχησηται· “By this grace ye are saved through faith; and This (τουτο, this salvation) not of you; it is the gift of God, not of works: so that no one can boast.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #25 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:44:56 »


[OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.]

tell that to INJ, he's got it hand in hand with this idea of faith being a gift from God, and he ties it into his justification of the OP.

 ::shrug::

He said:

"So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved, and once someone is saved they do not always display the right fruit immediately and if it is of God the fruit that will last will be produced later. But people are impatient, they want instant results. They want everyone to be the same, not real growth but it looks good, behaves good and then people are shocked when they leave church or quit a few years down the line. But it is true that those who are born of God do not want to sin, they have the Holy Spirit who leads them into all truth, but if someone does sin we have an advocate Jesus Christ."

-------------------------------------------------------------

my point being that one misconception seems to lead to others, as in this case...............



Please do not presume to read my mind, only God can do that. If my words do not suffice, ask.

This is not a misconception nor a strange doctrine. It is the word of God. John Wesley preached the same and a multitude of others. Read the parable of the sower my friend, then get back to me.

In the parable of the sower, the sower is not presented as the reason for the differences in the condition of the soils.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #26 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:45:20 »
Jimmy said
Actually, even the title of the thread is in fact an oxymoron.

Yep!

You have to remain in His grace to please Him?   Can you say work based salvation?

OSAS but you have to remain in His grace?  
There is no logic to this position.

Offline Johnb

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #27 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:46:54 »
Jimmy
I guess some folks have never raised hogs.   ::smile::

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #28 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:50:08 »
Jimmy
I guess some folks have never raised hogs.   ::smile::

Now that was funny --

p.rehbein

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #29 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 08:54:58 »
INJ stated:

Please do not presume to read my mind, only God can do that. If my words do not suffice, ask.

This is not a misconception nor a strange doctrine. It is the word of God. John Wesley preached the same and a multitude of others. Read the parable of the sower my friend, then get back to me.
=============================================

I'm guessing this comment was for me and not Jimmy...............soooooooooooooo......... .....

I don't have to read your mind (only God and you know your mind, just as only God and I know my mind), beause I've read your posts from the first day you began to post on Grace Centered.  As I recall, you posted 10 or 11 different threads/subjects on the Theology Forum all within a few minutes of first signing on.  You almost managed to take over the entire 1st page of the Theology Forum, but I stopped you from doing that by moving several of your posts to different forums.

Now, with regards to this thread, you are not teaching the Word of God, you are teaching your opinion of the Word of God; and, if you would state it that way, then I would have no problem with it.  However, when you suggest that your opinion IS the Word of God, then I got a problem.

Your first statement in this thread (that faith is a gift just as Grace is), is not Biblical.  As well, OSAS is not Biblical.  It ain't hard to see where this is going, or coming from.  Predestination!  The idea that man has nothing to do with his salvation.  God has already predetermined who will be saved and who won't.................ergo OSAS no matter what you do................ergo everything is a gift from God and man is just a puppet on a string that God jiggles as He wishes.

Now, if you want to state that this is your opinion, well, that's fine, but it ain't Biblical.  All the scriptrures disproving your opinion have been given here many, many times...............there is nothing new under the sun here....................


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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #30 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 09:09:55 »
20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


Offline INJ

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #31 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 09:41:09 »
Jimmy
another point of agreement.  Like I have told you for some time our personal views are not that far apart.   If faith is also a gift that makes God a respecter of persons and therefore a liar.

You need to be careful in your words regarding God. God never lies

American King James Version (Eph 2:8)
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


You are correct, God never lies.  That is why your interpretation of Eph 2:8 has to be wrong.  And you are the one who, by incorrect interpretation, have inferred that God is a liar.

The "it" in Eph 2:8 is not faith.  Strictly speaking the "it" in Eph 2:8 is not grace either, even though grace may be considered a gift. The gift is that "by grace you have been saved THROUGH faith".  The is the gift is salvation.

Jimmy, in the Greek there is no "it" not of yourselves, gift of God

From Adam Clarke's commentary:

But whether are we to understand, faith or salvation as being the gift of God? This question is answered by the Greek text: τῃ γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως· και τουτο ουκ εξ ὑμων· Θεου το δωρον, ουκ εξ εργων· ἱνα μη τις καυχησηται· “By this grace ye are saved through faith; and This (τουτο, this salvation) not of you; it is the gift of God, not of works: so that no one can boast.

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #32 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 09:42:44 »


[OSAS comes out of the same illogical interpretation as does faith is a gift.  But that is not the topic of discussion here.]

tell that to INJ, he's got it hand in hand with this idea of faith being a gift from God, and he ties it into his justification of the OP.

 ::shrug::

He said:

"So actually scripture teaches once saved always saved, and once someone is saved they do not always display the right fruit immediately and if it is of God the fruit that will last will be produced later. But people are impatient, they want instant results. They want everyone to be the same, not real growth but it looks good, behaves good and then people are shocked when they leave church or quit a few years down the line. But it is true that those who are born of God do not want to sin, they have the Holy Spirit who leads them into all truth, but if someone does sin we have an advocate Jesus Christ."

-------------------------------------------------------------

my point being that one misconception seems to lead to others, as in this case...............



Please do not presume to read my mind, only God can do that. If my words do not suffice, ask.

This is not a misconception nor a strange doctrine. It is the word of God. John Wesley preached the same and a multitude of others. Read the parable of the sower my friend, then get back to me.

In the parable of the sower, the sower is not presented as the reason for the differences in the condition of the soils.

We can do another post for the parable of the sower if you like. The soil is the heart.

larry2

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #33 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 09:44:22 »

Jimmy
I guess some folks have never raised hogs.
   ::smile::


Did the ones you raised remain hogs, or did they die to the sty and become sheep?

larry2

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Re: How to please the Lord? - The only way is GRACE
« Reply #34 on: Mon Dec 19, 2011 - 09:48:10 »

But faith is added to grace. Grace is God's part, faith is man's part.


Romans 12:3  ". . God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."