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Offline cgaviria

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The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« on: Tue Feb 07, 2017 - 15:40:39 »
This is a very important study I just finished today, please read carefully.

PART 1 OF 1

The teaching of the trinity is a lie, hence why its mention in this verse of scripture,

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For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 [KJV])
Only exists in a few manuscripts, all dated much later in time, and because of this is why most English translations of this verse do not render it with this trinitarian forgery. The only other reference of the trinity in scripture is this verse,

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Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Matthew 28:19 [NIV])
And although most, if not all manuscripts have been lost rendering this verse in its original way without the mention of the trinity, this verse has also been forged because of its clear contradiction with these other verses to baptize in the name of Jesus Christ only, as opposed to in the name of the trinity,

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Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38 [NIV])

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because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
(Acts 8:16 [NIV])

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So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
(Acts 10:48 [NIV])

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On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 19:5 [NIV])
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And whatever you should ask in my name, this I shall do, that the father should be glorified in the son. (John 14:13 [ABP])
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And everything, what ever you should do in word or in work, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to the God and father by him. (Colossians 3:17 [ABP])
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And when they believed Philip announcing good news, the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were immersed, both men and women. (Acts 8:12 [ABP])
And ultimately, God is not three, but he is only one being, literally, hence,

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Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one. (Deuteronomy 6:4 [NIV])
Who, as one God, is figuratively one in unity with all who are his, hence,

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that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. (John 17:21 [NIV])

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I and the Father are one. (John 10:30 [NIV])
Just as a husband is figuratively one in unity with his wife,

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That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24 [NIV])
And as one God, he had one single son,

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For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16 [NIV])
And since a son comes after a father in time, and the Father had no beginning, this son therefore came forth into existence in the beginning, hence,

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And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. (John 17:5 [NIV])
In which case, day one of creation was the day God became Father to this son, because before day one, the son did not exist for God to have been his Father,

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I will proclaim the LORD's decree: He said to me, "You are my son; today I have become your father. (Psalm 2:7 [NIV])
And this is also why this son is called firstborn of all creation,

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The Son... the firstborn over all creation. (Colossians 1:15 [NIV])
And although God had more sons,

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the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful... (Genesis 6:2 [NIV])
It was through this son, by his own speech, that all life came into existence,

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because by him were created – all in the heavens and upon the earth; the visible, and the invisible; whether thrones, or lordships, or rulers, or authorities – all by him and for him were created. (Colossians 1:16 [INTERLINEARIZED])

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All through him emerged, and without him emerged not even one that has emerged (John 1:3 [INTERLINEARIZED])
Hence why he is also called "word of God", because he spoke all life into existence in the beginning,

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And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky." (Genesis 1:20 [NIV])

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And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures... (Genesis 1:24 [NIV])

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Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image..." (Genesis 1:26 [NIV])

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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1 [NIV])
And also why he is called "only son", because Jesus Christ was the only being directly created by the Father, as opposed to all other beings who were indirectly created by God through the speech of Jesus Christ,

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“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be. When there were no watery depths, I was given birth, when there were no springs overflowing with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth,
(Proverbs 8:22-25 [NIV])

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Yet to us one God the Father of whom all and we for him and one Lord Jesus Christ through whom all and we by him (1 Corinthians 8:6 [INTERLINEARIZED])
And so, Jesus Christ is this wisdom that God brought as the first of his works, hence why he is also called the wisdom of God,

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But out of Him, you are in Christ Jesus, who has been made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification and redemption,(1 Corinthians 1:30 [BLB])

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but those called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Corinthians 1:24 [BLB])
This son is also called God,

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...and the Word was God. (John 1:1 [NIV])
Because although the Father is greater than the son,

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...for the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28 [NIV])
And the Father alone has infinite knowledge,

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Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered... (Luke 12:7 [NIV])

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Great is our Lord, and great is his strength; and there is no number of his understanding. (Psalms 147:5 [ABP])

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"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Matthew 24:36 [NIV])

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Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance? (Isaiah 40:12 [NIV])
And the Father alone predestines and determines all things,

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but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared. (Mark 10:40 [NIV])

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For those God foreknew he also predestined... (Romans 8:29 [NIV])

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We may throw the dice, but the LORD determines how they fall. (Proverbs 16:33 [NLT])
And the Father alone cannot be contained by the highest heaven, or even the earth, or much less a body of flesh and bones,

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"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. How much less this temple I have built! (1 Kings 8:27 [NIV])
Jesus Christ, who is lesser than the Father, was created to be the highest representation of the Father in his own creation, to where even Jesus Christ was given authority to be creator as the Father was first creator, whereupon not only did all life come through Jesus Christ, but also the world, since before the world came to be, the Father first brought forth the earth into existence, hence why it was still unseen and unready to be populated,

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But the earth was unseen and unready, and darkness was upon the abyss.... (Genesis 1:2 [ABP])
And in wisdom, through the speech of Jesus Christ, God then created the world upon the earth,

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But God made the earth by his power; he founded the world by his wisdom and stretched out the heavens by his understanding. (Jeremiah 10:12 [NIV])

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He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. (John 1:10 [NIV])
Whereupon the first few utterances Jesus Christ made to begin creating the world were,

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And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. (Genesis 1:3 [NIV])

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And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. (Genesis 1:6 [KJV])

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And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. (Genesis 1:9 [NIV])

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Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. (Genesis 1:11 [NIV])

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And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. (Genesis 1:14 [KJV])
And so, not only was Jesus Christ creator as the Father is creator, but he was also given all authority in heaven and earth after his resurrection, just as God has authority over all heaven and earth,

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Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (Matthew 28:18 [NIV])

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Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Philippians 2:9 [NIV])
And will one day return to the earth as the representation of God, in full glory and power,

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"At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. (Mark 13:26 [NIV])
To judge the world in righteousness as God,

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Let all creation rejoice before the LORD, for he comes, he comes to judge the earth. He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in his faithfulness. (Psalm 96:13 [NIV])

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For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead." (Acts 17:31 [NIV])

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Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, (John 5:22 [NIV])
And in a similar manner that Moses, as a representation of God, was given authority to be like God,

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Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. (Exodus 7:1 [NIV])
To bring forth powerful judgments against Egypt,

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Say therefore to the people of Israel, ‘I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will deliver you from slavery to them, and I will redeem you with an outstretched arm and with great acts of judgment. (Exodus 6:6 [ESV])
And in a similar manner than even angels, as representations of God, are given authority to also be like God, hence why the angel that spoke to Moses spoke as God,

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There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. (Exodus 3:2 [NIV])

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Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. (Exodus 3:6 [NIV])
And angels were given authority to bring the laws of God to man,

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you who have received the law that was given through angels but have not obeyed it." (Acts 7:53 [NIV])

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Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. (Galatians 3:19 [NIV])

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Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, and the whole mountain trembled violently. (Exodus 19:18 [NIV])

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The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« on: Tue Feb 07, 2017 - 15:40:39 »

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #1 on: Tue Feb 07, 2017 - 15:41:06 »
PART 2 OF 2

And even fallen angels are called "gods" because they were originally created as representations of God before they became wicked, yet still have great authority over the earth,

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"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' (Psalm 82:6 [NIV])

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in which the god of this eon blinded the thoughts of the unbelieving, so as to not shine forth to them the illumination of the good news of the glory of the Christ, who is image of the unseen of God. (II Corinthians 4:4 [ABP])
And in likewise manner that even the destiny of the elect is to be like God, hence why the elect will not only be glorified,

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Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear. (Matthew 13:43 [NIV])
But also given authority to rule on the earth,

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To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations-- (Revelation 2:26 [NIV])
And authority to also judge on the earth,

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Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! (1 Corinthians 6:2-3 [NIV])
As representations of God, hence,

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by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (2 Peter 1:4 [ESV])

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But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12 [KJV])

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For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. (Romans 8:29 [NIV])
So has Jesus Christ been given authority, in a much higher way than any man or angel, to one day bring forth powerful judgments, not just against one city, but against the entire world, in which case by the last bowl judgment, all the cities of the world will collapse,

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The fish of the sea and the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the field and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the people who are on the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence. And the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.
(Ezekiel 38:20 [ESV])

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Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath. Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found. (Revelation 16:19-20 [NIV])
And it is because of the height of this authority and exaltation given to Jesus Christ, above all men and angels, that Jesus Christ is indeed God, because he is the full exact representation, expression, and image of the Father in creation, above all other created beings, hence,

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The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of His nature... (Hebrews 1:3 [BSB])

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The Son is the image of the invisible God... (Colossians 1:15 [NIV])
And although earth itself cannot contain the Father himself, Jesus Christ came and dwelled in the world as God, as if it were the Father himself, because he is the one and only being created in the exact representation of God,

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The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John 1:14 [NIV])

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"The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us"). (Matthew 1:23 [NIV])
And so, this is why the way to the Father is through the son,

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Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6 [NIV])
Because whoever worships the representation of God, which is the son, also worships the Father, hence,

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...Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? (John 14:9 [NIV])

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that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:23 [NIV])
And so, because only the Father and the son existed in the beginning, therefore, the spirit of God that existed in the beginning,

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Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (Genesis 1:2 [NIV])
After the Father himself first created the heavens and earth,

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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis 1:1 [NIV])
Was his very own son, since the spirit of God mentioned in Genesis was the very son that God brought forth into existence, who then began to speak all life into existence, hence why,

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The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. (Job 33:4 [NIV])
And after his firstborn son, God had more sons,

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Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. (Job 1:6 [ESV])
Which were angels, and so, in relation to this passage in Isaiah,

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In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them. (Isaiah 63:9-10 [NIV])
All angels of God are also "spirits of God", or rather, "holy spirits", hence why this angel in Isaiah is called a holy spirit, and why it is said of angels,

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In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire." (Hebrews 1:7 [NIV])
In which case, the form of spirit is the form of wind, since both words, "spirit" and "wind", are synonymous in the Hebrew and in the Greek, hence,

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he makes his messengers winds, his ministers a flaming fire. (Psalm 104:4 [ESV])
And also why it is said that all angels of God are holy,

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Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. (Luke 9:26 [NIV])
And so, a reference to the "holy spirit", or "spirit of God", is a reference to a holy angel that has taken the invisible form of wind, so that he may then enter into and inhabit a believer through his breath, hence,

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[31] For you are able one by one all to prophesy, that all should learn and all should be comforted. [32] For spirits of prophets submit to prophets. (1 Corinthians 14:31-32 [ABP])
In which case, each believer that is baptized in the holy spirit receives one single holy spirit to guide him from within. This is why the elect are instructed to test every spirit,

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Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: (1 John 4:2 [KJV])
Because there is not just only one holy spirit, but there is an innumerable amount of spirits of God, which are all holy angels, just as there is an innumerable amount of spirits that are not of God, which are fallen angels or demons. This is also why the holy spirit has a personality, emotions, and will of his own,

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In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. (Romans 8:26 [NIV])

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But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. (John 14:26 [NIV])

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And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30 [NIV])
Because the holy spirit is an actual angel, and Paul's warning to not grieve the holy spirit correlates with the angel in the passage in Isaiah,

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the angel of his presence saved them... Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy... (Isaiah 63:9-10 [NIV])
Which is the same angel referenced in Exodus,

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"See, I am sending an angel ahead of you to guard you along the way and to bring you to the place I have prepared. (Exodus 23:20 [NIV])
In which case, when this angel became grieved, or rather, when this holy spirit became grieved, he did not forgive them,

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Pay careful attention to him and obey his voice; do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression, for my name is in him. (Exodus 23:21 [ESV])
And turned against them and killed them, as in this example,

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The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them along with Korah, whose followers died when the fire devoured the 250 men. And they served as a warning sign. (Numbers 26:10 [NIV])

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...So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them. (Isaiah 63:10 [NIV])
Which is why the same holy spirit that is sent to guide each of the elect, also does not forgive sins,

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but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin." (Mark 3:29 [NIV])
And kills when he becomes offended,

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Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land?... When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. (Acts 5:3-5 [NIV])
Because the holy spirit that guides the elect now is an angel, just as the holy spirit that guided the Israelites before was also an angel.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 07, 2017 - 17:40:06 »
 ::doh::

Offline fish153

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #3 on: Tue Feb 07, 2017 - 18:15:12 »
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.  And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:16,17)

Please note:  Jesus is baptized and raises out of the water. The Holy Spirit descends from Heaven,  Then a Voice from Heaven declares "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased".  The verses are clearly showing us the existence of a Trinity.

"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,  that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:22,23)

Please note:  Jesus says that the Father desires everyone to honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father. We clearly see a reference to TWO PERSONS WITH EQUAL HONOR. Though not spoken of here---the Holy Spirit is the third person with equal honor.

"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word". (Heb 1:3)

May I ask, how can a created finite being be the EXACT REPRESENTATION of an INFINITE BEING?  The logical answer is that a finite creature CANNOT be the EXACT REPRESENTATION of an INFINITE BEING.

You spent two long posts teaching us how God is not a Trinity.  It only takes a few verses to prove that what you teach is heresy----and that God is indeed a Trinity.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 07, 2017 - 18:19:43 by fish153 »

Offline justbyfaith

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #4 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 00:48:41 »
Unless you know well how to combat false doctrine and you are trained up in the field of apologetics,  I suggest that obedience to the following verse is needed for many:

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.  Romans 16:17-18.

I did not even read cvagaria's post because I understand that its premise is based in false doctrine.  Every cult that has ever been denies the Trintiy in some way, shape or form.  So in reading this thread, I went straight to fish153's response and was edified by it.

It helps to know who are the faithful teachers of God's word on these forums.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 00:52:53 by justbyfaith »

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #4 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 00:48:41 »



notreligus

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #5 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 07:04:32 »
Unless you know well how to combat false doctrine and you are trained up in the field of apologetics,  I suggest that obedience to the following verse is needed for many:

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.  Romans 16:17-18.

I did not even read cvagaria's post because I understand that its premise is based in false doctrine.  Every cult that has ever been denies the Trintiy in some way, shape or form.  So in reading this thread, I went straight to fish153's response and was edified by it.

It helps to know who are the faithful teachers of God's word on these forums.

Good comment and right on point.


notreligus

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #6 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 07:05:26 »
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.  And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:16,17)

Please note:  Jesus is baptized and raises out of the water. The Holy Spirit descends from Heaven,  Then a Voice from Heaven declares "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased".  The verses are clearly showing us the existence of a Trinity.

"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,  that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:22,23)

Please note:  Jesus says that the Father desires everyone to honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father. We clearly see a reference to TWO PERSONS WITH EQUAL HONOR. Though not spoken of here---the Holy Spirit is the third person with equal honor.

"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word". (Heb 1:3)

May I ask, how can a created finite being be the EXACT REPRESENTATION of an INFINITE BEING?  The logical answer is that a finite creature CANNOT be the EXACT REPRESENTATION of an INFINITE BEING.

You spent two long posts teaching us how God is not a Trinity.  It only takes a few verses to prove that what you teach is heresy----and that God is indeed a Trinity.

+1

Online RB

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #7 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 07:17:36 »
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The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
You did a very good job of showing men that you are deeply deceived concerning the Godhead. I would debate you one on one in the debate forum on the doctrine of the Trinity. My understanding is different than many and certainly different than yours for sure. I believe that the Jehovah is ONE GOD, yet clearly manifested to us as THREE according to their respective work in creation and the redemption of the elect seed. Btw~Jesus Christ was NOT created but CONCEIVED by the power of the Highest in the womb of a virgin named Mary! Come and debate me one on one, just you and I. I will start it with what you have posted here.

Offline Rella

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #8 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 08:16:42 »
Quote
The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
You did a very good job of showing men that you are deeply deceived concerning the Godhead. I would debate you one on one in the debate forum on the doctrine of the Trinity. My understanding is different than many and certainly different than yours for sure. I believe that the Jehovah is ONE GOD, yet clearly manifested to us as THREE according to their respective work in creation and the redemption of the elect seed. Btw~Jesus Christ was NOT created but CONCEIVED by the power of the Highest in the womb of a virgin named Mary! Come and debate me one on one, just you and I. I will start it with what you have posted here.

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Offline chosenone

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #9 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 08:38:48 »
cjavaria
Do you believe in the following?

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #10 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 08:55:24 »
"As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.  And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” (Matt. 3:16,17)

Please note:  Jesus is baptized and raises out of the water. The Holy Spirit descends from Heaven,  Then a Voice from Heaven declares "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased".  The verses are clearly showing us the existence of a Trinity.

"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,  that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. (John 5:22,23)

Please note:  Jesus says that the Father desires everyone to honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father. We clearly see a reference to TWO PERSONS WITH EQUAL HONOR. Though not spoken of here---the Holy Spirit is the third person with equal honor.

"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word". (Heb 1:3)

May I ask, how can a created finite being be the EXACT REPRESENTATION of an INFINITE BEING?  The logical answer is that a finite creature CANNOT be the EXACT REPRESENTATION of an INFINITE BEING.

You spent two long posts teaching us how God is not a Trinity.  It only takes a few verses to prove that what you teach is heresy----and that God is indeed a Trinity.

Jesus Christ is not identical to the Father when it is said he is the representation of God, hence why he says he is lesser than the Father,

...the Father is greater than I. (John 14:28 [NIV])

But rather, to be made in the representation of God, or rather, in the image of God,

The Son is the image of the invisible God... (Colossians 1:15 [NIV])

Implies to be made in the similitude of God. It would be as if I created a small action figure of myself, made in my own resemblance. The action figure can look like me, and have characteristics of me, but the doll can never be me, because I am much larger and more complex than he. This is why even Adam was also made in the image of God,

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness.... (Genesis 1:26 [NIV])

Because although he was created, he was made as a representation of God and thus given authority to rule over the earth,

...so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." (Genesis 1:26 [NIV])

Just like God, who is greater, rules over all creation. "Authority" is a characteristic of any being made in the image of God, because God has "authority", hence why Jesus Christ was given authority to rule over all heaven and earth, and why even the elect will one day rule the earth, of which even the elect are being conformed to the representation of God,

For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.(Romans 8:29 [NIV])

Yet Jesus Christ is called the "exact" representation, because his representations of God is the greatest. It would be as if I had several action figures of myself, all of varying sizes, with one, larger than the others. The largest action figure is a more "exact" representation of myself because it is closer in size to me.

If you cannot correctly understand this, then you will also not understand many other matters.

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #11 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 09:03:02 »
Unless you know well how to combat false doctrine and you are trained up in the field of apologetics,  I suggest that obedience to the following verse is needed for many:

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.  For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.  Romans 16:17-18.

I did not even read cvagaria's post because I understand that its premise is based in false doctrine.  Every cult that has ever been denies the Trintiy in some way, shape or form.  So in reading this thread, I went straight to fish153's response and was edified by it.

It helps to know who are the faithful teachers of God's word on these forums.

You do yourself a disfavor by searing yourself shut. But fine, be my guest.

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #12 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 09:18:23 »
Quote
The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
You did a very good job of showing men that you are deeply deceived concerning the Godhead. I would debate you one on one in the debate forum on the doctrine of the Trinity. My understanding is different than many and certainly different than yours for sure. I believe that the Jehovah is ONE GOD, yet clearly manifested to us as THREE according to their respective work in creation and the redemption of the elect seed. Btw~Jesus Christ was NOT created but CONCEIVED by the power of the Highest in the womb of a virgin named Mary! Come and debate me one on one, just you and I. I will start it with what you have posted here.

I can easily debunk your statement by pointing out that YHWH, (btw, "Jehovah" is not even close to the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, ask a local rabbi who actually knows Hebrew), was the name of the angel, hence,

There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. (Exodus 3:2 [NIV])

And God saith again unto Moses, 'Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name -- to the age, and this My memorial, to generation -- generation. (Exodus 3:15 [YLT])

In which case, the name of this angel was the name of the Father up until a new name was given to us,

Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Philippians 2:9 [NIV])

Which was the name of Jesus,

that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, (Philippians 2:10 [NIV])

And it is the name of Jesus, that is now the name of the Father, hence,

I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one. (John 17:11 [NIV])

This is why the name of YHWH is no longer used, because the Father himself does not directly have a name. Naming things involves language and speech, and since language and speech are things that are themselves created, the Father has no direct name that he would've given himself. This is why the Father is identified as,

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:14 [NIV])

The Father just IS and HAS ALWAYS BEEN and WILL ALWAYS BE. And so, in his own creation, even though he himself does not have a name, his name, in his own creation, is the name he gave to whomever is his own representation in his own creation, in which case, the greatest name given to any being is now the name of Jesus. This is why the name of YHWH is never used in any of the gospels nor epistles nor Revelation, because that was the name of the angel, which has now been exceeded by a greater name, which is the name of Jesus.

This is also another reason why the doctrine of the trinity is complete nonsense, "...in the name of the Father...", not only is there no direct name for God, but "Father" not even the name of God, it is a title. The doctrine of the trinity is based on complete ignorance and lack of understanding of scripture.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 09:29:19 by cgaviria »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #13 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 09:19:53 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #14 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 09:38:46 »
Cgaviria,

You are the living proof of 1 Corinthians 2:14
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."


Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #15 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 09:59:31 »
cjavaria
Do you believe in the following?

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

I believe the scriptures quoted herein, but not the Nicene Creed itself, which you have quoted. To equate the Nicene Creed as scripture would be like grabbing a Joyce Meyer book and saying, this is scripture. I will also point out that the original creed, which you have modified to suit your own fancy, did you not read as you quoted it, but as so,

"...we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church...."

This is clearly a catholic document, not a document written by any of the apostles. And do not think to even say that "catholic" is referring to the universal church, because if it were, then there would be no need to reference a second church. This is without a doubt a catholic document that errs in a very subtle way.

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #16 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:05:45 »
Cgaviria,

You are the living proof of 1 Corinthians 2:14
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

And somehow the same cannot be said of you? Careful now, you hold yourself in a very high position presuming yourself to be right, yet in scripture we read,

Do not be wise in your own eyes... (Proverbs 3:7 [NIV])

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #17 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:16:15 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

Does it matter? Popularity is not a a validator of truth.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #18 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:32:29 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

Does it matter? Popularity is not a a validator of truth.

Yeah, it kinda does; if you make these out to be salvation issues.

Do you?

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #19 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:41:58 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

Does it matter? Popularity is not a a validator of truth.

Yeah, it kinda does; if you make these out to be salvation issues.

Do you?

Are not only a few chosen?

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

So it should stand to reason that the few that are chosen are the only ones who actually understand the truth,

Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand. (Daniel 12:10 [NIV])

This is why popularity is not a indicator of truth, but rather, it is whoever knows and understands the scriptures. Is gay marriage not popular in America? Yet even in spite of its popularity, it is still evil according to scripture. As such, popularity is not a validator of truth, but whoever knows and understands the scripture, even if it be only one person left, he is right.

I have presented the scriptures and spoken rightly about them. Now, will you believe or will you not?

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #20 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:45:12 »
This is also another reason why the doctrine of the trinity is complete nonsense, "...in the name of the Father...", not only is there no direct name for God, but "Father" not even the name of God, it is a title. The doctrine of the trinity is based on complete ignorance and lack of understanding of scripture.
I made an offer to you so that we can debate one on one, which truly is the only way a position can be proven. When others are involved then everyone gives their understanding which generally there are several different ones and no one is able to prove what they are attempting to prove. I personally do not hold to what is considered mainstream belief on the Trinity which is nothing more than Catholicism/EOC corruption of the Godhead. I prefer the use of the word Godhead, for so did Paul used that term.
Quote
Romans 1:20~"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
The Godhead is clearly revealed in three persons yet we who know the truth know that there's but ONE GOD. First revealed as three:
Quote
2nd Corinthians 13:14~The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen."
Yet there's "only one God"~again Paul said:
Quote
1st Corinthians 8:5,6~"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Wonderful and powerful scriptures revealing Paul's doctrine concerning the Godhead as he dividing the scriptures carefully and properly to give the Godhead their proper role in the redemption of the seed of Jesus Christ. So must we, or else we will end up being guilty of denying a certain aspect of the work of the Godhead as it relates to the salvation of the children of God. The Jehovah Witnesses boldly (as you do as well)  reject his deity, while others fall prey to it unaware and innocently by blindly accepting the Eternal sonship doctrine of eternal generation as believed by RCC/EOC, who blindly followed the heresies of many so-called church fathers. That's another reason why I desire to debate this one on one. I'm waiting and willing.

Now, come and prove your doctrine in the debate forum.

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #21 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:52:18 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

Does it matter? Popularity is not a a validator of truth.

Yeah, it kinda does; if you make these out to be salvation issues.

Do you?

Are not only a few chosen?

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

So it should stand to reason that the few that are chosen are the only ones who actually understand the truth,

So, I ask you again; *have* you found *any* that accept your version of truth? Or will you be the only on rambling around Heaven by yourself?

Quote
Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand. (Daniel 12:10 [NIV])

This is why popularity is not a indicator of truth, but rather, it is whoever knows and understands the scriptures. Is gay marriage not popular in America? Yet even in spite of its popularity, it is still evil according to scripture. As such, popularity is not a validator of truth, but whoever knows and understands the scripture, even if it be only one person left, he is right.

I have presented the scriptures and spoken rightly about them. Now, will you believe or will you not?

With all due respect, please stay on the topic at hand.  You shouldn't need to deflect and make this about other wrongs.  We are talking about the subject YOU started and brought up.

Scripture is clear that wise counsel is a good thing.  (Proverbs 11:14) DO you have any that counsel you in the way you should go and your understanding? 

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #22 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 10:59:39 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

Does it matter? Popularity is not a a validator of truth.

absolutely correct. The validator of truth is the Holy Spirit.
Hopefully you will meet Him some day. If you ask, He will come.

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #23 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 11:31:11 »
cjavaria
Do you believe in the following?

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

I believe the scriptures quoted herein, but not the Nicene Creed itself, which you have quoted. To equate the Nicene Creed as scripture would be like grabbing a Joyce Meyer book and saying, this is scripture. I will also point out that the original creed, which you have modified to suit your own fancy, did you not read as you quoted it, but as so,

"...we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church...."

This is clearly a catholic document, not a document written by any of the apostles. And do not think to even say that "catholic" is referring to the universal church, because if it were, then there would be no need to reference a second church. This is without a doubt a catholic document that errs in a very subtle way.
   


In the rules of this forum its necessary to believe the above which is entirely scriptural. Catholic does means universal BTW.
The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[1][2]) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[3][4] The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.

If you believe the above creed, then you believe in the trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
If you can't believe what is said then you need to leave this forum.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 11:34:06 by chosenone »

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #24 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 11:32:02 »
cgaviria, have you ever met anyone who shares your discoveries and theology?

Does it matter? Popularity is not a a validator of truth.

Yeah, it kinda does; if you make these out to be salvation issues.

Do you?

Are not only a few chosen?

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

So it should stand to reason that the few that are chosen are the only ones who actually understand the truth,

Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand. (Daniel 12:10 [NIV])

This is why popularity is not a indicator of truth, but rather, it is whoever knows and understands the scriptures. Is gay marriage not popular in America? Yet even in spite of its popularity, it is still evil according to scripture. As such, popularity is not a validator of truth, but whoever knows and understands the scripture, even if it be only one person left, he is right.

I have presented the scriptures and spoken rightly about them. Now, will you believe or will you not?
 


Not

Offline fish153

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #25 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 12:30:45 »
cgaviria----

There is no need to spend a lot of time arguing with you about the Trinity or Deity of Jesus Christ. Either you listen to the scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to
enlighten you and give you discernment, or you can choose to continue to hold onto heretical doctrine.  I will offer two more passages from Scripture which clearly
show that Jesus Christ is not a CREATED being---but is God Himself, a person of the Trinity, God the Son:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

Please note that The Lord God says of Himself  "I am the Alpha and the Omega".

Now----please note that the below verses are spoken by Jesus. It is in the same book of Revelation---and note---interestingly---the first verse above is in the
FIRST chapter of Revelation----and the below is in the LAST chapter of Revelation-----the first and the last.  These two verses clearly show and
teach that Jesus is indeed God Himself, as He takes the same title as the Lord God does in chapter 1 of Revelation.

"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.  “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.
” (Revelation 22: 12-16)

Either believe scripture or continue to hold to your heresy.  I pray God will open your eyes to the truth.


« Last Edit: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 12:35:13 by fish153 »

Offline Alan

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #26 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 12:37:05 »
cgaviria----

There is no need to spend a lot of time arguing with you about the Trinity or Deity of Jesus Christ. Either you listen to the scripture and allow the Holy Spirit to
enlighten you and give you discernment, or you can choose to continue to hold onto heretical doctrine.  I will offer two more passages from Scripture which clearly
show that Jesus Christ is not a CREATED being---but is God Himself, a person of the Trinity, God the Son:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)

Please note that The Lord God says of Himself  "I am the Alpha and the Omega".

Now----please note that the below verses are spoken by Jesus. It is in the same book of Revelation---and note---interestingly---the first verse above is in the
FIRST chapter of Revelation----and the below is in the LAST chapter of Revelation-----the first and the last.  These two verses clearly show and
teach that Jesus is indeed God Himself, as He takes the same title as the Lord God does in chapter 1 of Revelation.

"Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.  “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.
” (Revelation 22: 12-16)

Either believe scripture or continue to hold to your heresy.  I pray God will open your eyes to the truth.


Well said!

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #27 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 14:02:43 »
This is also another reason why the doctrine of the trinity is complete nonsense, "...in the name of the Father...", not only is there no direct name for God, but "Father" not even the name of God, it is a title. The doctrine of the trinity is based on complete ignorance and lack of understanding of scripture.
I made an offer to you so that we can debate one on one, which truly is the only way a position can be proven. When others are involved then everyone gives their understanding which generally there are several different ones and no one is able to prove what they are attempting to prove. I personally do not hold to what is considered mainstream belief on the Trinity which is nothing more than Catholicism/EOC corruption of the Godhead. I prefer the use of the word Godhead, for so did Paul used that term.
Quote
Romans 1:20~"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
The Godhead is clearly revealed in three persons yet we who know the truth know that there's but ONE GOD. First revealed as three:
Quote
2nd Corinthians 13:14~The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen."
Yet there's "only one God"~again Paul said:
Quote
1st Corinthians 8:5,6~"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
Wonderful and powerful scriptures revealing Paul's doctrine concerning the Godhead as he dividing the scriptures carefully and properly to give the Godhead their proper role in the redemption of the seed of Jesus Christ. So must we, or else we will end up being guilty of denying a certain aspect of the work of the Godhead as it relates to the salvation of the children of God. The Jehovah Witnesses boldly (as you do as well)  reject his deity, while others fall prey to it unaware and innocently by blindly accepting the Eternal sonship doctrine of eternal generation as believed by RCC/EOC, who blindly followed the heresies of many so-called church fathers. That's another reason why I desire to debate this one on one. I'm waiting and willing.

Now, come and prove your doctrine in the debate forum.

Have I not stated that Jesus Christ is God, in response to you claiming I have rejected his deity? However, as opposed to you, I understand why he is God in relation to God, in accordance to scripture. I am willing to debate you, just lead the way where, if not specifically here.

Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #28 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 14:10:23 »
cjavaria
Do you believe in the following?

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

I believe the scriptures quoted herein, but not the Nicene Creed itself, which you have quoted. To equate the Nicene Creed as scripture would be like grabbing a Joyce Meyer book and saying, this is scripture. I will also point out that the original creed, which you have modified to suit your own fancy, did you not read as you quoted it, but as so,

"...we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church...."

This is clearly a catholic document, not a document written by any of the apostles. And do not think to even say that "catholic" is referring to the universal church, because if it were, then there would be no need to reference a second church. This is without a doubt a catholic document that errs in a very subtle way.
   


In the rules of this forum its necessary to believe the above which is entirely scriptural. Catholic does means universal BTW.
The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[1][2]) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[3][4] The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.

If you believe the above creed, then you believe in the trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
If you can't believe what is said then you need to leave this forum.

You just affirmed the very thing I stated beforehand, that "catholic" does not just mean "universal scope", "the whole", "universal", but it also references the very church that began to rise around that time frame, in its infancy. This much is obvious, because of the distinction of two churches, one that is "universal", and one that was founded by the apostles, hence "apostolic". If indeed a reference was being made of one universal church, then a reference to a second church would not be necessary. It was this "universal" church, and its doctrines, that became the catholic church that we know today. And it was at the council of Nicaea, that the doctrine of the trinity became promulgated. This was not the original doctrine of the apostles, hence the scriptures that contradict it. This is a catholic doctrine, which most of the protestant churches have also adopted, among many other catholic doctrines. I'm sorry people, but you have been deceived, and most of you are sheared shut into this doctrine.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 14:14:19 by cgaviria »

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #29 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 14:21:13 »
cjavaria
Do you believe in the following?

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

I believe the scriptures quoted herein, but not the Nicene Creed itself, which you have quoted. To equate the Nicene Creed as scripture would be like grabbing a Joyce Meyer book and saying, this is scripture. I will also point out that the original creed, which you have modified to suit your own fancy, did you not read as you quoted it, but as so,

"...we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church...."

This is clearly a catholic document, not a document written by any of the apostles. And do not think to even say that "catholic" is referring to the universal church, because if it were, then there would be no need to reference a second church. This is without a doubt a catholic document that errs in a very subtle way.
   


In the rules of this forum its necessary to believe the above which is entirely scriptural. Catholic does means universal BTW.
The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[1][2]) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[3][4] The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.

If you believe the above creed, then you believe in the trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
If you can't believe what is said then you need to leave this forum.

You just affirmed the very thing I stated beforehand, that "catholic" does not just mean "universal scope", "the whole", "universal", but it also references the very church that began to rise around that time frame, in its infancy. This much is obvious, because of the distinction of two churches, one that is "universal", and one that was founded by the apostles, hence "apostolic". If indeed a reference was being made of one universal church, then a reference to a second church would not be necessary. It was this "universal" church, and its doctrines, that became the catholic church that we know today. And it was at the council of Nicaea, that the doctrine of the trinity became promulgated. This was not the original doctrine of the apostles, hence the scriptures that contradict it. This is a catholic doctrine, which most of the protestant churches have also adopted, among many other catholic doctrines. I'm sorry people, but you have been deceived, and most of you are sheared shut into this doctrine.

Do you believe the following

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)


Offline cgaviria

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #30 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 14:30:58 »
cjavaria
Do you believe in the following?

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4: 5; Acts 2: 38)
We look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11: 24; 1 Corinthians 15: 12-49; Hebrews 6: 2; Revelation 20: 5)
and the life in the age to come. (Mark 10: 29-30)

AMEN. (Psalm 106: 48)

I believe the scriptures quoted herein, but not the Nicene Creed itself, which you have quoted. To equate the Nicene Creed as scripture would be like grabbing a Joyce Meyer book and saying, this is scripture. I will also point out that the original creed, which you have modified to suit your own fancy, did you not read as you quoted it, but as so,

"...we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church...."

This is clearly a catholic document, not a document written by any of the apostles. And do not think to even say that "catholic" is referring to the universal church, because if it were, then there would be no need to reference a second church. This is without a doubt a catholic document that errs in a very subtle way.
   


In the rules of this forum its necessary to believe the above which is entirely scriptural. Catholic does means universal BTW.
The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[1][2]) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[3][4] The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.

If you believe the above creed, then you believe in the trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
If you can't believe what is said then you need to leave this forum.

You just affirmed the very thing I stated beforehand, that "catholic" does not just mean "universal scope", "the whole", "universal", but it also references the very church that began to rise around that time frame, in its infancy. This much is obvious, because of the distinction of two churches, one that is "universal", and one that was founded by the apostles, hence "apostolic". If indeed a reference was being made of one universal church, then a reference to a second church would not be necessary. It was this "universal" church, and its doctrines, that became the catholic church that we know today. And it was at the council of Nicaea, that the doctrine of the trinity became promulgated. This was not the original doctrine of the apostles, hence the scriptures that contradict it. This is a catholic doctrine, which most of the protestant churches have also adopted, among many other catholic doctrines. I'm sorry people, but you have been deceived, and most of you are sheared shut into this doctrine.

Do you believe the following

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

I believe the scripture references quoted therein, but not the Nicene Creed itself. I've given some reasons why in this study.

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #31 on: Wed Feb 08, 2017 - 16:44:30 »
So then you believe in the trinity.

Please read the rules 6.3

Online RB

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #32 on: Thu Feb 09, 2017 - 05:12:28 »
So then you believe in the trinity. Please read the rules 6.3

I do not believe in this:
Quote
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
And neither did Luke based upon Luke chapter one. Jesus was conceived in TIME by the power of the Highest. Eternal generation must by definition (if a definition could be given to that phrase~eteranl generation...... one cannot be eternal and ALSO have a generation started!) said that Jesus in his DIVINE NATURE has a beginning! That's is a pure heresy of the worst kind. Believe by JW! The Nicene Creed is JUST THAT a creed wrote by man, it is NOT the infallible word of God.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 04, 2018 - 03:57:16 by RB »

Offline chosenone

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #33 on: Thu Feb 09, 2017 - 06:21:44 »
So then you believe in the trinity. Please read the rules 6.3

I do not believe in this:
Quote
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
And neither did Luke based upon Luke chapter one. Jesus was conceived in TIME by the power of the Highest. Eternal generation must by definition (if a definition could be given to that phrase~eteranl generation...... one cannot be eternal and ALSO have a generation started!)said that Jesus in his DIVINE NATURE has a beginning! That's is a pure heresy of the worst kind. Believe by JW! The Nicene creed is JUST THAT a creed wrote by man, it is NOT the infallible word of God.

John 1

The Deity of Jesus Christ
1 In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. 2 He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God. 3 All things were made and came into existence through Him; and without Him not even one thing was made that has come into being. 4 In Him was life [and the power to bestow life], and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines on in the [c]darkness, and the darkness did not understand it or overpower it or appropriate it or absorb it [and is unreceptive to it].

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Deception of the Teaching of the Trinity
« Reply #34 on: Thu Feb 09, 2017 - 07:19:08 »
So then you believe in the trinity.

Please read the rules 6.3

The Nicene Creed can be a reasonable guide yet even the Nicene Creed can be fallible.  John 1:2 does not say Jesus was begotten of God before all ages; rather it says Jesus was in the beginning with God.  God the Son in the beginning was not begotten.  Jesus the Son in human form was begotten of God.  Begotten implies a starting point, an origination.

 

     
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