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The idea that Noah brought a lot of animals is UnScriptural. The total number could easily have been less than a thousand creatures. There was no need to bring creatures which were created from the water on the 5th Day, Gen 1:21 since those same creatures (Trinity Kinds) were already on our present Planet and had been here for Billions of years when the Ark arrived and floated in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat (Lake Van. Turkey) some 10k years ago.

The creatures which were aboard the Ark were the creatures which Jesus, the Son, made with His own Hands (His Kind). Science calls them common ancestors. The common ancestor of All Humanity, on this present world, was a direct descendant of Adam, the first Human, and his name was Noah.

Humans were scattered all over the face of the Earth from Babel which was built by the son of one of Noah's grandsons, Cush. Gen 10:10 Science agrees and Human civilization can be traced to Noah's arrival some 10k +- years ago just south of Mt. Ararat..

The waters began to recede?

The idea that Noah brought a lot of animals is UnScriptural.

With all due respect, Seve...your statement here is unscriptural...

Genesis 7:1-4
1  Then the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation.
2  Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate,
3  and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
4  For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."

Genesis 8:18-19
18  So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him.
19  Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by families from the ark.

The idea that Noah brought to the new world all of the animals that then lived, is completely Scriptural. This does not include the variations of creatures that have since adapted and changed and branched off according to their baramins, but it also does include any species of what we today call dinosaurs and other ancient species that have since gone extinct.

The total number could easily have been less than a thousand creatures.

Not very likely...not when we take into consideration all the species of birds, mammals, reptiles, and so-called mosaic creatures...including the known species of dinosaurs, mammoths, great cats, etc.

There was no need to bring creatures which were created from the water on the 5th Day, Gen 1:21 since those same creatures (Trinity Kinds) were already on our present Planet and had been here for Billions of years when the Ark arrived and floated in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat (Lake Van. Turkey) some 10k years ago.

Just to be clear on my position, there is no valid evidence that this planet has been here for billions, or even millions, of years. And what makes that fact even more codified, is that such a time span would be outside of God's apparent time scale. The earth is conservatively estimated to be somewhere between 6-10 thousand years old, and we cannot tell exactly how old because we have no idea how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they were kicked out. Adam lived 930 years after the curse was placed upon creation, and since aging processes are part of that curse, he didn't age until after it was levied upon creation.

Where do you get this "category" of Trinity Kind from? It sounds very New Agey to me.

The creatures which were aboard the Ark were the creatures which Jesus, the Son, made with His own Hands (His Kind).

What Bible are you reading? Jesus was not around at creation, there is only the mention of God and the Spirit of God in creation, and neither of them made anything with "his own hands" except for God the Father when He formed man out of the dust of the earth with His own hands. God spoke everything else in creation into existence...it was only mankind that He formed with His own hands.

We see in the designation of the word Elohim (gods - plural) the beginning of the teaching of the Trinity, but there is no direct mentioning of Christ anywhere in the creation narrative.If you mean Yahweh before His incarnation as Jesus, we can accept that, but the "Christ" did not exist until He was incarnated in the womb of Mary.

Science calls them common ancestors. The common ancestor of All Humanity, on this present world, was a direct descendant of Adam, the first Human, and his name was Noah. Humans were scattered all over the face of the Earth from Babel which was built by the son of one of Noah's grandsons, Cush. Gen 10:10 Science agrees and Human civilization can be traced to Noah's arrival some 10k +- years ago just south of Mt. Ararat..

While this is true to a certain extent, I read in your words the idea of evolutionary theory...am I correct?

Adam’s firmament of heaven was located in the vicinity beneath the the body of water of Lake Van, Turkey - where it was placed. It was in a completely enclosed Biosphere, similar to an incubator of Humanity.

Adam's world was FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compare to our present world, it has thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain is only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

Adam’s world was contained in the interior of our hollow earth, beneath the surface of Lake Van, Turkey, which is about 75 miles wide and 1500 feet deep.

During the Flood, the Ark which was covered, floated out the top of of the broken firmament of heaven of Adam's world... into the largest Lake in the area (Lake Van, Turkey), and as the firmament sank, it released the Ark into our world and Adam’s world was totally destroye in the Flood. If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it.

This explains a way for a 450 foot Ark to be above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft) ref. Gen 7:20 ...AND....in the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began (Gen 8:4).

Strange Spiral under Lake Van, Turkey 7.2 EQ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utJi4bTb4ck

2Pe 3:5-6 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

God Bless

Seve...I sure would like to know where you are getting this information, because none of the geographical info that you are giving us here is accurate in the least bit. Adam did not live on a flat earth, just as we do not live on one today. He did not live in an "incubator" of any kind. What is this "broken firmament of Adam's world" that you are talking about, and where did you get that from? Not the Scriptures...

"If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it"? Again, I ask, where are you receiving this stuff from? Sounds very much like New Age mythology.

Quote from: Seve1002 on Thu Jun 30, 2016 - 10:50:21

Mystery of Noah’s Flood:

The Flood and it's consequences, as told in Genesis, is truly an amazing story. It's a terrific mystery, when unraveled, displays the Supreme Intelligence of our God and tells us of our True Origins. In order to understand the Flood, one must understand the following:

The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our world, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8

Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present Earth, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water. Isa 24:19

Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft (15 cubits) above the highest elevation of Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20

On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

That's one of the mysteries. HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?

God Bless

You are using a lot of strange language here...enclosed biosphere that was smaller than earth is today? What do you mean exactly?...

Gen. 1:6-8 addresses the direct results of God speaking matter (light) into existence, which was water scattered about throughout the physical cosmos. God gathered all that water together into one place and separated "the waters from beneath from the waters above," meaning that at this point there was a ball of water floating in empty space surrounded by another layer of water, separated by oxygen...God had made the earth's atmosphere. Then He created out of the midst of the ball of water...the ground...

Genesis 1:9
And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so.

Second articulation: What do you mean "on the same day?"...

Genesis 7:24
And the waters prevailed on the earth for 150 days.

Genesis 8:2-4
2  The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
3  and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated,
4  and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

Noah was 600 years old when he went into the ark and the flood started...

Genesis 7:6-7
6  Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters came upon the earth.
7  And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him went into the ark to escape the waters of the flood.

and he was 601 years old when he left the ark...

Genesis 8:13
In the six hundred and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried from off the earth. And Noah removed the covering of the ark and looked, and behold, the face of the ground was dry.

It was not the same day...it had been a whole year that the flood had been affected upon the earth.

Blessings!

I have provided you with my Scriptural Analysis of How Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft (15 cubits) above the highest elevation of their Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. And on that depth the mountains of that Earth were covered in water. [/b]Gen 7:20.... However, on the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

That's one of the mysteries. HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?

IF you don’t like my Biblical Analogy then feel free to post and explain your view of the Mystery above.

God bless

Quote from: SwordMaster on Fri Jul 01, 2016 - 12:10:16

Quote from: Seve1002 on Thu Jun 30, 2016 - 07:34:49

The idea that Noah brought a lot of animals is UnScriptural.

With all due respect, Seve...your statement here is unscriptural...

Genesis 7:1-4
1  Then the LORD said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and all your household, for I have seen that you are righteous before me in this generation.
2  Take with you seven pairs of all clean animals, the male and his mate, and a pair of the animals that are not clean, the male and his mate,
3  and seven pairs of the birds of the heavens also, male and female, to keep their offspring alive on the face of all the earth.
4  For in seven days I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made I will blot out from the face of the ground."

Genesis 8:18-19
18  So Noah went out, and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives with him.
19  Every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves on the earth, went out by families from the ark.

The idea that Noah brought to the new world all of the animals that then lived, is completely Scriptural. This does not include the variations of creatures that have since adapted and changed and branched off according to their baramins, but it also does include any species of what we today call dinosaurs and other ancient species that have since gone extinct.

Quote

The total number could easily have been less than a thousand creatures.

Not very likely...not when we take into consideration all the species of birds, mammals, reptiles, and so-called mosaic creatures...including the known species of dinosaurs, mammoths, great cats, etc.

Quote

There was no need to bring creatures which were created from the water on the 5th Day, Gen 1:21 since those same creatures (Trinity Kinds) were already on our present Planet and had been here for Billions of years when the Ark arrived and floated in the vicinity of Mt. Ararat (Lake Van. Turkey) some 10k years ago.

Just to be clear on my position, there is no valid evidence that this planet has been here for billions, or even millions, of years. And what makes that fact even more codified, is that such a time span would be outside of God's apparent time scale. The earth is conservatively estimated to be somewhere between 6-10 thousand years old, and we cannot tell exactly how old because we have no idea how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before they were kicked out. Adam lived 930 years after the curse was placed upon creation, and since aging processes are part of that curse, he didn't age until after it was levied upon creation.

Where do you get this "category" of Trinity Kind from? It sounds very New Agey to me.

Quote

The creatures which were aboard the Ark were the creatures which Jesus, the Son, made with His own Hands (His Kind).

What Bible are you reading? Jesus was not around at creation, there is only the mention of God and the Spirit of God in creation, and neither of them made anything with "his own hands" except for God the Father when He formed man out of the dust of the earth with His own hands. God spoke everything else in creation into existence...it was only mankind that He formed with His own hands.

We see in the designation of the word Elohim (gods - plural) the beginning of the teaching of the Trinity, but there is no direct mentioning of Christ anywhere in the creation narrative.If you mean Yahweh before His incarnation as Jesus, we can accept that, but the "Christ" did not exist until He was incarnated in the womb of Mary.

Quote

Science calls them common ancestors. The common ancestor of All Humanity, on this present world, was a direct descendant of Adam, the first Human, and his name was Noah. Humans were scattered all over the face of the Earth from Babel which was built by the son of one of Noah's grandsons, Cush. Gen 10:10 Science agrees and Human civilization can be traced to Noah's arrival some 10k +- years ago just south of Mt. Ararat..

While this is true to a certain extent, I read in your words the idea of evolutionary theory...am I correct?

It’s my recorded stand that Adam’s World was different from our own own World. The thrust of the context of the quote is based on the entire postings which you edited by chopping them into pieces resulting to a distortion of thoughts.

All of the creatures/animals/fowl of the air brought inside the Ark were only the ones Made by the physical hands of our Lord God - like a potter would mold a clay - that Adam gave names to after the Lord God brought them to him (His Kinds). Gen 2:19.

[Gen 2:19 KJV] 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.

The same kinds (Their Kinds=Trinity) of creatures/animals/fowl of the air that the water brought forth on the 1st Earth on the 5th day (Gen 1:21) were also created from the waters on this planet of ours has been and living for millions of years before Noah’ Ark arrived, therefore, there’s no need to brings them here from the Ark.

The Bible does Not give the Earth's age in man's time. In God's time, Today is the 6th Day or Age. Scripture shows that the Big Bang, which happened some 13.7 Billion years ago, in man's time, was on the 3rd Day of Genesis. This means that each of God's "Days" are some 4.5 Billion years in length. This means that the morning of the Creation was some 27 Billion years ago.

The present Earth was Not destroyed in the Flood. The 1st Earth and the 1st Universe were destroyed, totally and completely, in the waters of a Flood. Scripture does Not say that our Earth will be destroyed in a Flood, but that it will be Burned.

The age of this Earth is in complete accord with Scripture. Those who tell you differently only demonstrate that they don't understand Genesis 1 &2.

Genesis 1 uses the word "Elohim" for God, but in Genesis 2:4 Scripture uses the word "YHWH" for God thy Maker. Elohim is a Plural Name and means The Judges. YHWH is a singular name and is the name of the LORD.

The LORD is called YHWH in the Old Testament and Jesus Christ in the New Testament. The LORD is the Only Begotten Son of the Invisible Spirit of God. He is the Image or Physical Incarnation of God. YHWH or Jesus is the Only God you will ever See.

God bless

OK...so we have established that you adhere to an evolutionary time line, and you have also established that you believe in mythology, specifically that there have been two catastrophe's in earth's history.

Also, I did not distort anything and did not edit your post...I addressed it piece at a time so as not to get caught up in the rhetoric of what you were saying. There has only bee one earth, it was not destroyed and another that took its place.

You never answered the most important question I asked...where are you getting these things from? Because you are not getting them from Scripture.

Blessings

Seve said...

Quote from: SwordMaster on Fri Jul 01, 2016 - 12:39:52

Quote from: Seve1002 on Thu Jun 30, 2016 - 20:22:33

Adam’s firmament of heaven was located in the vicinity beneath the the body of water of Lake Van, Turkey - where it was placed. It was in a completely enclosed Biosphere, similar to an incubator of Humanity.

Adam's world was FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compare to our present world, it has thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain is only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

Adam’s world was contained in the interior of our hollow earth, beneath the surface of Lake Van, Turkey, which is about 75 miles wide and 1500 feet deep.

During the Flood, the Ark which was covered, floated out the top of of the broken firmament of heaven of Adam's world... into the largest Lake in the area (Lake Van, Turkey), and as the firmament sank, it released the Ark into our world and Adam’s world was totally destroye in the Flood. If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it.

This explains a way for a 450 foot Ark to be above the highest mountains of Adam's world (22 1/2 ft) ref. Gen 7:20 ...AND....in the mountains of Ararat on the SAME 150th day after the flood began (Gen 8:4).

Strange Spiral under Lake Van, Turkey 7.2 EQ - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utJi4bTb4ck

2Pe 3:5-6 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

God Bless

Seve...I sure would like to know where you are getting this information, because none of the geographical info that you are giving us here is accurate in the least bit. Adam did not live on a flat earth, just as we do not live on one today. He did not live in an "incubator" of any kind. What is this "broken firmament of Adam's world" that you are talking about, and where did you get that from? Not the Scriptures...

"If it sounds like Atlantis, so be it"? Again, I ask, where are you receiving this stuff from? Sounds very much like New Age mythology.

The Physical Making of the 1st Firmament of Heaven on the 2nd Day.

The firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

Gen 1:6-8 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

You do understand what firmament means, right? It means the sky...and God placed it to separate the waters that would become part of the earth from the waters in the atmosphere that what's left is the ozone layer (the thin layer of water molecules that surrounds the earth and protects it from the full bombardment of the sun's radiation rays). The firmament did not "protect" Adam's earth from the water above the expanse, the water above the expanse was protecting the earth...

Do a study on the lifespan of human beings before and then after the flood (the floodgates of heaven was opened), because most of the water that was above the expanse was allowed to fall to the earth and help to flood it, leaving only the thin layer that remains today. The radiation that comes through that thin layer today is part of the reason why the human lifespan was greatly reduced after the flood...from 900 years to 100.

He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, that’s more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.

Where do you get this from? Not Scripture...If God only created a floating island, then He would have called it a floating island (He uses the term island in Scripture in other places, no reason for Him not to use it here if that is what He did). Then your second comment above...my answer is, "not really." If you read the context of the passage, God was dividing the waters from below the expanse (firmament) from the waters above it...He was not dividing the water on the earth through making dry land appear.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

The firmament b/w Adam’s Earth and the heaven above was empty, containing only air. But then, went up the mist from Adam’s Earth on the 3rd Day..

Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

..... and the Earth atmosphere is formed.

Not accurate. Mist does not create atmosphere, simple science tells us this. Atmosphere is formed mostly by oxygen, not mist...the firmament is the Biblical term for atmosphere here, you can get any creation science textbook which deals with creation and read it there.

See? Now, we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 and the mist that went up from Adam’s Earth on the 3rd Day forming the Earth’s Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Notice: As you know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8. However, the immediate cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adam’s Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

Wherever you are getting this from pins this whole story upon a single word (heavens) being plural...and that is not the way to do Biblical exegesis. The word heaven is plural because there are three realities of space and time that the Jews called heaven; 1. the atmosphere (air);  2. outer space (the darkness that surrounds the earth in the cosmos);  and 3. God's dwelling place. Numbers 1 and 2 were created at the same time, number 3 is outside of time and space in the eternal realm where God dwells, so that one is outside the scope of your analysis.

Add the first heaven, made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 to the other heavens Gen 2:4 which were made the 3rd Day and you will see that God made 3 heavens/Universes by the Third Day = Multiverse, Amen?

Not really, and I would further to venture that you will not find very many people that will agree with what you have claimed so far...then I am curious, why quote Rev. 21:1 below, because it has no bearing upon anything that you have stated thus far?

[Rev 21:1 KJV] 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

God bless

Likewise!

Again, you have not answered the one question that will make your "analysis" clear...where are you getting this "information" from, because it isn't from the Scriptures.

I answered your question already but your preconceived notion is blurring your reasonable comprehension.

As I said, and I will repeat - if youn don’t agree with me, then post your contrasting view with Scripture to support the basis and merit of your continuing objection.

Case in point, you have no idea of the "highest elevation of their earth on the 150th Day after the flood began" was, and to say that you do is to be a person who is not forthright in your claim. How do you know what that elevation was? Another case in point, the ark was not in two places at the same time, where do you get that "information" from? Not the Scriptures...

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[Gen 7:20 KJV] 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

As it is written, those who who have not been born again spiritually, have eyes and ears but they can not understand Scripture. Tell us how you can read the mind of another. And where do you see that I said that “the Ark was in two places sat the same time”? I said, the SAME DAY - big difference.

Your "Scriptural analysis" is not Scriptural at all, you are getting your 'information' from somewhere outside of the Scriptures, and I can tell you that wherever you are getting it from, from whoever you are getting it from, has no clue about what they are so confidently claiming.

You sound like you been whining a lot. May I suggest that you stop complaining and try to refute my postings DIRECTLY with your contrasting views supported by Scripture.

Do you accept the challenge?

Case in point...Noah was most likely not on Mt. Ararat when he constructed the ark, the oldest archeological excavations found of civilization was centered around Babylon and Egypt...not in Turkey. In fact, we have no idea where Noah was at the time of the construction of the ark, so for you to make the spurious claim that he was on Mt. Ararat demands physical proof on your part...

Where is it?

Then you boldly stated...

Who told you that I posted that Noah was in Mt. Ararat when he constructed the Ark? Again, your preconceived notion is blurring your reading comprehension of my postings. Your argument is fallacious.

Very well, here it is...there is no mystery outside of the one that was planted within you by whoever you read that wrote that.

Mystery solved!

Yeah right, based on your fallacious argument? Come on man, get real.   

Quote

OK...so we have established that you adhere to an evolutionary time line, and you have also established that you believe in mythology, specifically that there have been two catastrophe's in earth's history.

Also, I did not distort anything and did not edit your post...I addressed it piece at a time so as not to get caught up in the rhetoric of what you were saying. There has only bee one earth, it was not destroyed and another that took its place.

You never answered the most important question I asked...where are you getting these things from? Because you are not getting them from Scripture.

Blessings

You seem to make a lot of ASSUMPTION whenever a posting is contrary to your doctrinal faith, don't you? Well, then, deal with it head on.

I posted Biblical Proof Texts and Scriptural Analogies to support all my assertions of my position of the matter. Also said that, if you don’t agree with it, then, refute me with your contrasting view or understanding supported by Scripture. Either debate or run away but please, stop what seems to be continuing "whining".

So far, all I see is your OPINION and your religious view NOT supported by the Scripture. Therefore no need for a long rebuttal.

TRY AGAIN?

Pardon me for saying so, but the only one whining here seems to be you...and again you have side-stepped the most important part.

Where are you getting your information from, because it isn't from the Scriptures. Identify your source, because little that you have presented so far is from correct interpretation of the Scriptures. Are you getting this from yourself, or from some website, or book...or where?

Seve said...

Quote from: Seve

The Physical Making of the 1st Firmament of Heaven on the 2nd Day.

The firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

Gen 1:6-8 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Quote

You do understand what firmament means, right? It means the sky...and God placed it to separate the waters that would become part of the earth from the waters in the atmosphere that what's left is the ozone layer (the thin layer of water molecules that surrounds the earth and protects it from the full bombardment of the sun's radiation rays). The firmament did not "protect" Adam's earth from the water above the expanse, the water above the expanse was protecting the earth...

Perhaps, the Bible Dictionary by Easton below - should help you understand better and correct the error of your religious assumption. Let me know if still don’t get it. http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionaries/eastons-bible-dictionary/firmament.html

Dictionaries - Easton's Bible Dictionary - Firmament
Firmament [N]
from the Vulgate firmamentum, which is used as the translation of the Hebrew raki'a . This word means simply "expansion." It denotes the space or expanse like an arch appearing immediately above us. They who rendered raki'a by firmamentum regarded it as a solid body. The language of Scripture is not scientific but popular, and hence we read of the sun rising and setting, and also here the use of this particular word. It is plain that it was used to denote solidity as well as expansion. It formed a division between the waters above and the waters below ( Genesis 1:7 ). The raki'a supported the upper reservoir ( Psalms 148:4 ). It was the support also of the heavenly bodies ( Genesis 1:14 ), and is spoken of as having "windows" and "doors" ( Genesis 7:11 ; Isaiah 24:18 ; Malachi 3:10 ) through which the rain and snow might descend.

Here's another similar image below for your visualization - just to give you an idea what I am talking about - it's not exactly the way I see it but close.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M32867febee54efd6d14e7c4c706cc15aH0&pid=15.1&P=0&w=240&h=161 

So, just so I understand where you are coming from, which parts of this picture are not according to your view?

I an not sure why the quotes are being cross out but you can read them anyway - It must be contrary to the forum's or your religious view, is it?   

Perhaps the forum, but I don't own it, otherwise things would be done very differently here...

Quote

Do a study on the lifespan of human beings before and then after the flood (the floodgates of heaven was opened), because most of the water that was above the expanse was allowed to fall to the earth and help to flood it, leaving only the thin layer that remains today. The radiation that comes through that thin layer today is part of the reason why the human lifespan was greatly reduced after the flood...from 900 years to 100.

WRONG AGAIN. It has nothing to do with your seemingly, extreme left wing Environmental point of view of our present world.

The Lord was totally disgusted to see the daughters of men forming a union of marriage with the prehistoric beings or sons of God. Gen 6:3 since the Lord knows that those combinations would produce men of brutish beast - mighty men of old. Therefore, he cuts mankind's lifespan to 90%.

Yah....rrrrrrrrriiiiiiight...you are really way out in left field here. You are not as Scripturally astute as you might think you are, sir. Read the first chapters of Genesis again, as I suggested to you, and mark the age of men before and immediately after the flood. If you had any kind of creationist science background, you would know that the function of the ozone layer is, and matching that with the descriptors of the events in human history both before and after the flood, that it is based upon scientific measurements and findings regarding the entities involved. I have studied science as it has to do with creation for over 30 years now, and what I present is based upon that accumulation of scientific data from various reputable sources, the Institute for Creation Research, for starters.

Here, perhaps this will help you...

Genesis 11:11-25
11  And Shem lived after he fathered Arpachshad 500 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's over 500 years total lifespan)
12  When Arpachshad had lived 35 years, he fathered Shelah.
13  And Arpachshad lived after he fathered Shelah 403 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 438 years total lifespan)
14  When Shelah had lived 30 years, he fathered Eber.
15  And Shelah lived after he fathered Eber 403 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 433 years total lifespan)
16  When Eber had lived 34 years, he fathered Peleg.
17  And Eber lived after he fathered Peleg 430 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 464 years total lifespan)
18  When Peleg had lived 30 years, he fathered Reu.
19  And Peleg lived after he fathered Reu 209 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 239 years total lifespan)
20  When Reu had lived 32 years, he fathered Serug.
21  And Reu lived after he fathered Serug 207 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 239 years total lifespan)
22  When Serug had lived 30 years, he fathered Nahor.
23  And Serug lived after he fathered Nahor 200 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 230 years total lifespan)
24  When Nahor had lived 29 years, he fathered Terah.
25  And Nahor lived after he fathered Terah 119 years and had other sons and daughters. (that's 148 years total lifespan)

Humans went from living for almost 1 thousand years old to around 600 or so, then down to 500 and 400, and then down to 200 and 100 years old, within 8 generations after the flood. I am not an environmentalist, so stop making such ridiculous assumptions like that.

Second, God was not disgusted because women were having marrital relationships with "prehistoric beings"...the language is clear in the Hebrew that what you call prehistoric beings were demons, or fallen angels, whichever you prefer.

The more the Heathens get older, the more meaner he gets.

You don't sound that old...

Also, another correction: The entire world of Adam was totally destroyed in the flood therefore, there’s nothing left and has been clean dissolved already; no remnants; no more forever - gone. Read below for your better understanding.

[Isa 24:18-20 KJV] 18 And it shall come to pass, [that] he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. 19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Well, I hate to have to correct you again, young padowan, but Isaiah has nothing to do with the world before the flood. As for your spurious claim above that nothing of the old world survived...the anakim were in the world both before and after the flood, so your theology has some holes in it according to the Scriptures. Trees, animals, humans...all were here both before and after the flood.

Quote from: Seve

He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, that’s more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.

Quote

Where do you get this from? Not Scripture...If God only created a floating island, then He would have called it a floating island (He uses the term island in Scripture in other places, no reason for Him not to use it here if that is what He did). Then your second comment above...my answer is, "not really." If you read the context of the passage, God was dividing the waters from below the expanse (firmament) from the waters above it...He was not dividing the water on the earth through making dry land appear.

Once again: Your pre-conceived notion must have been blurring your reading comprehension.

I posted for other's better visualization and easy understanding explaining how God must have built the SOLID GROUND in the middle of the water to divide the water from the waters.

He didn't build solid ground, He called it into being out from the midst of the water, and no where does it even insinuate that it was floating upon the face of the water.

Solid ground does not float in the water, does it?.

Come on men, use your common sense and gifted mind and correct your premises which is only based on fallacious argument.

I am only one man, not many...and my argument is not fallacious...at least not anywhere near the one you are currently giving.

Quote from: Seve

See? Now, we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 and the mist that went up from Adam’s Earth on the 3rd Day forming the Earth’s Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Notice: As you know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8. However, the immediate cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adam’s Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

Quote

Wherever you are getting this from pins this whole story upon a single word (heavens) being plural...and that is not the way to do Biblical exegesis. The word heaven is plural because there are three realities of space and time that the Jews called heaven; 1. the atmosphere (air);  2. outer space (the darkness that surrounds the earth in the cosmos);  and 3. God's dwelling place. Numbers 1 and 2 were created at the same time, number 3 is outside of time and space in the eternal realm where God dwells, so that one is outside the scope of your analysis.

I don’t follow Ancient Goat Herder Religious Traditional View of the Scripture. I am talking about the actual Making of the 1st Firmament of the Physical Heaven on the 2nd Day NOT the Outer Space or the Invisible Celestial Heaven above were God resides.

Therefore, your argument is out-of-context to topic of the  topic presented to support my recorded stand.

Maybe you are that old...(

The more the Heathens get older, the more meaner he gets.

)...there's no "Ancient Goat Herder Religious Traditional View of the Scripture" here...and if that is what you call solid interpretation of the Scriptures according to Biblical principles of interpretation, then you have got some real problems with your personal, homespun theology...isn't that what you would call it?

Quote

Not really, and I would further to venture that you will not find very many people that will agree with what you have claimed so far...then I am curious, why quote Rev. 21:1 below, because it has no bearing upon anything that you have stated thus far?

As I have said, I don’t follow traditional view of others who can NOT support their doctrinal faith with Scripture.

I hate to tell you this Seve, but you can't support your personal home spun doctrinal stand with the Scriptures either...so you are in the same boat as those whom you claim not to be.

Good luck with that.

Just curious, do you believe that Jesus is Yahweh in the flesh? Or is that also one of those traditional views that you refuse to espouse?

Dear Readers,

God tells us we live in Multiverse:

Gen. 1:6-8 documents that the 1st Firmament or Heaven was made on the 2nd Day and it’s surrounded with waters above and below it. However, it was totally destroyed and dissolved in the Flood - Gone forever.  

Gen. 2:4-5 documents that the 2nd Universe - Our World - was made on the 3rd Day. However, it’s not surrounded by waters, but, star dust. It’s also doomed for total destruction for the same reason the 1st Word was destroyed. It will also going to be dissolved and will melt by its fervent heat.

The 3rd Heaven/Universe will be our perfect World - the main object of the Creation. It is also formed on the 3rd Day and it’s now being prepared for all of us Christians by Jesus, for our inhabitation, thereof,  when this present world is Burned.
 
John 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

In other words, Scripture documents that there are 3 Heavens/Universes and the Unbelievers and Pretenders seem to remain ignorant of God’ Truth? Of course, it’s another World consisting a New Heaven and a New Earth. Read below...

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

It’s a Biblical Proof that our Lord made us a Multiverse to live in. No other interpretation needed. Only willingly Scoffers of the last days will always stumble to this Truth - God’s Truth.

God bless

Do a study on the lifespan of human beings before and then after the flood (the floodgates of heaven was opened), because most of the water that was above the expanse was allowed to fall to the earth and help to flood it, leaving only the thin layer that remains today. The radiation that comes through that thin layer today is part of the reason why the human lifespan was greatly reduced after the flood...from 900 years to 100.

WRONG AGAIN. It has nothing to do with your seemingly, extreme left wing Environmental point of view of our present world.

The Lord was totally disgusted to see the daughters of men forming a union of marriage with the prehistoric beings or sons of God. Gen 6:3 since the Lord knows that those combinations would produce men of brutish beast - mighty men of old. Therefore, he cuts mankind's lifespan to 90%.

The more the Heathens get older, the more meaner he gets.

Also, another correction: The entire world of Adam was totally destroyed in the flood therefore, there’s nothing left and has been clean dissolved already; no remnants; no more forever - gone. Read below for your better understanding.

[Isa 24:18-20 KJV] 18 And it shall come to pass, [that] he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. 19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Here, perhaps this will help you...

Humans went from living for almost 1 thousand years old to around 600 or so, then down to 500 and 400, and then down to 200 and 100 years old, within 8 generations after the flood.
I am not an environmentalist, so stop making such ridiculous assumptions like that.

Second, God was not disgusted because women were having marrital relationships with "prehistoric beings"...the language is clear in the Hebrew that what you call prehistoric beings were demons, or fallen angels, whichever you prefer.

Dear Readers,

The context of the verses below should be suffice enough to REFUTE the wild imagination of our posters here.

[Gen 6:2-6 KJV] 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years[. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Angels are not Flesh. However, like humans, prehistoric people or sons of God were made of Flesh.

Only the Unbelievers and Pretenders who will always stumble to this Biblical Truth 


God bless

Dear readers...there is a reason why Seve's post is in the Non-Traditional Theology board...and it is not hard to see why...

 

Dear Readers,

As I have posted and asserted before, I don't follow Traditional GoatHerder' Theology, simply, because, they are NOT supported by the Scripture.

A good example might be the poster above, who, seemingly, could not support his view with Scripture and has been refuted repeatedly, if anyone had noticed.... would that be correct? 

God bless


Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Again, Seve...as I already stated, since your interpretation comes from elsewhere, not from the Scriptures, but from your own mind - including this supposed "mystery" of  the ark (which there isn't one)...there is no reason to post any evidence to detract from your points, because nothing that you have presented in the way of "evidence" can be logically used to support your fallacious claims - which, by the way, make no logical sense at all.

Anyone reading your posts can see that, which is probably why no one has bothered answering you except for me...because I wanted to see where you are coming from. Mission accomplished...so unless you have something else to add that is Scripturally coherent, I guess this will end my involvement.

Blessings!

I don't think there is any mystery of a great flood.. It's recorded in many different religions.... It's not unique to Noah.

There are several scientific theories to support it..
 
But what is factual and something that we can observe with our own eyes, is that we find fossils of whales and other sea life in places that we shouldn't- like on top of our tallest mountains.

As a kid, I found a fossil of a fish on top of Windrock Mountain that was being stripped for coal .. It only made sense to me knowing Gods flood.

However, mainstream  science comes along and chalks it up to plate tectonics and how our mountains rose from the seas. 

Either way, it's pretty obvious to me that all of our land mass at one time was underwater.

I don't think God set traps for us.....

Seve said...

Humans came to our Planet from Adam's world which was "clean dissolved" in the waters of the Flood.

First, dear reader, notice his New Age terminology that he employs here..."humans came to our planet."

Second..."clean dissolved"

He repeatedly likes using this phrase and linking to a youtube spot about how the land mass under the lake appears to "spiral" down to its bottom...what for? He has a mental link with this point that makes no sense to anyone else that I have shown it to. So it appears to spiral...so what. The Mariana Trench just "falls off" down into a trench...so what.

Seve makes little sense in his surmisings...but if one looks at it from a New Age perspective, it makes a lot of sense. The trouble is...the New Age movement isn't Christian or God-honoring. I don't know if this is where Seve is coming from, because he has refused to answer that question several times now...but by what he posts, it appears that some of his "teachings" here are from that movement, whether he himself is or not.


 

Isa 24:18-20 is like a "double edge sword" and speaking of Noah’s Flood, since this is obviously the account of the FIRST Earth being clean dissolved in water when the windows of their heaven were opened. It's speaking of Adam's world being completely destroyed in water during the Flood.

However, it is also set up as a Snare or Trap to catch those willingly ignorant unbelievers of this last days.

v18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. v19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. v20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
...

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: v6 Whereby the world (Greek-Kosmos) that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (Greek-destroyed, totally) v7 But the heavens and the earth , which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

First, dear reader, notice his New Age terminology that he employs here..."humans came to our planet."

Second..."clean dissolved"

He repeatedly likes using this phrase and linking to a youtube spot about how the land mass under the lake appears to "spiral" down to its bottom...what for? He has a mental link with this point that makes no sense to anyone else that I have shown it to. So it appears to spiral...so what. The Mariana Trench just "falls off" down into a trench...so what.

Seve makes little sense in his surmisings...but if one looks at it from a New Age perspective, it makes a lot of sense. The trouble is...the New Age movement isn't Christian or God-honoring. I don't know if this is where Seve is coming from, because he has refused to answer that question several times now...but by what he posts, it appears that some of his "teachings" here are from that movement, whether he himself is or not.

Dear Readers,

It is really embarrassing when a Pretender gets caught in the trap or Snare set-up by God -- like a double edge sword -- to expose those Unbelievers of the Last Days. Oh well... 

The verses from the Old and New Testament confirm that Adam's world, the world that then was, was totally destroyed in the Flood and that the heavens and earth which are now will also be dissolved by fire.

Here's the catch..... the same word in Isa 24:19 ”dissolved” - is used again and kept in store to describe the upcoming prophecy of our new heaven and earth which are now, reserved unto fire - will melt and shall be “dissolved”, by its fervent heat.

2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store (dissolved) , reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

2PE 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

Aren't you all glad that God made us a Multiverse? We now have a place to go when this world is burned and dissolved. 

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


God Bless

Scripture says....

Pro 15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness.