Author Topic: The Sin of Sodom was Racism  (Read 4909 times)

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AVZ

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #35 on: Thu Dec 19, 2013 - 19:52:39 »
I am quite surprised no one has quoted from Genesis 19 where the story of Sodom and Gomorrah appears.  These men were so wicked that when they saw two men enter Lot's house the first thing that entered their minds was sex.  And they were so perverted they were going to rape angels!

They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing
". (Genesis 19: 5-7 NIV)

The men of Sodom clearly understood these were "men" that they wanted to have sex with---they were so unholy they did not recognize that they wanted to rape angels.

Lot very clearly states that what they were going to was a "wicked thing".  God says that the men of Sodom were "wicked exceedingly" and it wasn't due to inhospitality---it was due to sexual perversion and vice.  That is very, very clear.

Fish,

Before the angels were sent to Sodom, God already had in mind to destroy the city.
In Genesis 18 God gives His reason to Abraham. Sodom was so intensely wicked that the cry of its wickedness reached heaven.

The angels were sent to Sodom to check things out. The wish of the men of Sodom to rape the two men was just a part of the total evil of Sodom.

Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality. Sodomy was just a part of the total evil of this city.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #35 on: Thu Dec 19, 2013 - 19:52:39 »

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #36 on: Thu Dec 19, 2013 - 20:22:28 »
.Yes,  Jesus talked to Abraham and then let the two angels go to Sodom,

testing to see if this finnally goes through

Offline fish153

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #37 on: Thu Dec 19, 2013 - 21:36:07 »
I am quite surprised no one has quoted from Genesis 19 where the story of Sodom and Gomorrah appears.  These men were so wicked that when they saw two men enter Lot's house the first thing that entered their minds was sex.  And they were so perverted they were going to rape angels!

They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing
". (Genesis 19: 5-7 NIV)

The men of Sodom clearly understood these were "men" that they wanted to have sex with---they were so unholy they did not recognize that they wanted to rape angels.

Lot very clearly states that what they were going to was a "wicked thing".  God says that the men of Sodom were "wicked exceedingly" and it wasn't due to inhospitality---it was due to sexual perversion and vice.  That is very, very clear.

Fish,

Before the angels were sent to Sodom, God already had in mind to destroy the city.
In Genesis 18 God gives His reason to Abraham. Sodom was so intensely wicked that the cry of its wickedness reached heaven.

The angels were sent to Sodom to check things out. The wish of the men of Sodom to rape the two men was just a part of the total evil of Sodom.

Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality. Sodomy was just a part of the total evil of this city.

Oh--I never meant to say that Sodom was destroyed just because of sodomy.  The people there were "wicked exceedingly before the Lord".  I was simply stating, and showing, the depraved nature this population of people had sunk to. When the men of a city try to bash down the door of a man's house so that they can literally rape two other men (who were really angels) I think the Lord's resolve to destroy that city was strengthened.  He tells Lot to "leave immediately" when He beheld these depraved men and their reaction to two visiting angels.

They were not only perverted men--they were also violent, and bordering on insanity.  Can you imagine a group of men outside your house trying to bash down the door so they can rape two friends who are visiting you?  That's depraved insanity.  So, I am stating the sin of Sodom was not racism, or not showing hospitality--it was because they were complete reprobates at heart---having unnatural sexual and social cravings brought on by the fullness of sin expressing itself in their lives.
« Last Edit: Thu Dec 19, 2013 - 21:38:29 by fish153 »

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #38 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:19:54 »
Lets see what Jesus said about Sodom, and a worse place than Sodom...and see if sexuality is mentioned

Mathew11
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.


Offline MeMyself

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #39 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:22:40 »
Lets see what Jesus said about Sodom, and a worse place than Sodom...and see if sexuality is mentioned

Mathew11
23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.



Did you read Fish's post?  It is about the complete depravity of their hearts and the symptoms of that.

So what that Jesus didn't mention sexually acting out, it *is* mentioned elsewhere and it *was* one of the symptoms of the vileness going on in Sodom!

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #39 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:22:40 »



Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #40 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:23:16 »
Fish also note that anal humiliation is not what gay people do, they basically do it for a type of pleasure. There is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE when hateful guys do it to absolutely debase , torture and persecute those they absolutely hate and despise. It is a mob mentality where onlookers gloat and goad on the devils that do such evil deeds. Know the difference and do not put hate in your heart for the wrong people.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #41 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:25:06 »
Fish also note that anal humiliation is not what gay people do, they basically do it for a type of pleasure. There is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE when hateful guys do it to absolutely debase , torture and persecute those they absolutely hate and despise. It is a mob mentality where onlookers gloat and goad on the devils that do such evil deeds. Know the difference and do not put hate in your heart for the wrong people.

Do you say homosexuality is not sin?

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #42 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:26:01 »
Know the difference and do not put hate in your heart for the wrong people.

SIGH!  Again with assumptions and accusation!

What is up with this?  Why would you accuse Fish of having hate in his heart for people?


Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #43 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:26:40 »
All of the above is interesting but has nothing to do with the sin of Sodom...which was homosexuality...not racism.

Come on brethren, your grasping at straws to validate your sexual thoughts or lack of them, when you try to label homosexuality as the great sin..

For again, what did Jesus say...

Read brethren read.

What do THUS SAITH THE LORD scriptures say about SODOM OF THE ENDTIMES. WHAT CITY IS IT and WHY.

Study or ask the Lord.

Answer the question ?

Use an on line concordance, Study , discern your own heart, ask why most churches deem homosexuality the great sin.... why.

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #44 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:29:51 »
Know the difference and do not put hate in your heart for the wrong people.

SIGH!  Again with assumptions and accusation!

What is up with this?  Why would you accuse Fish of having hate in his heart for people?

I did not say he had hate in his heart, but anyone that despises homosexuals because apparrently the Lord despises them for their sexuality is in danger of putting hate in their heart or calling others RACCA.

Know the difference between anal humiliation hatred and homosexual orientation. Know the difference and STOP with the non stop accusations against me. Answer the question, what city is Sodom in the End Time.

The rules say you can not change what I wrote and suggest I said something different. Follow the rules.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #45 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:34:28 »
Know the difference and do not put hate in your heart for the wrong people.

SIGH!  Again with assumptions and accusation!

What is up with this?  Why would you accuse Fish of having hate in his heart for people?

I did not say he had hate in his heart, but anyone that despises homosexuals because apparrently the Lord despises them for their sexuality is in danger of putting hate in their heart or calling others RACCA.

Saying a behavior is sin is not hatred. Just FYI.

Know the difference between anal humiliation hatred and homosexual orientation. Know the difference and STOP with the non stop accusations against me.

I didn't accuse you but ASKED you to answer for your own words.  Know the difference!


The rules say you can not change what I wrote and suggest I said something different. Follow the rules.

I DID NOT CHANGE one WORD of what you wrote!!! 


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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #46 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:37:29 »
Fish also note that anal humiliation is not what gay people do, they basically do it for a type of pleasure. There is a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE when hateful guys do it to absolutely debase , torture and persecute those they absolutely hate and despise. It is a mob mentality where onlookers gloat and goad on the devils that do such evil deeds. Know the difference and do not put hate in your heart for the wrong people.

Do you say homosexuality is not sin?


 I echo this question.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #47 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:39:18 »
All of the above is interesting but has nothing to do with the sin of Sodom...which was homosexuality...not racism.

Come on brethren, your grasping at straws to validate your sexual thoughts or lack of them, when you try to label homosexuality as the great sin..

For again, what did Jesus say...

Read brethren read.

What do THUS SAITH THE LORD scriptures say about SODOM OF THE ENDTIMES. WHAT CITY IS IT and WHY.

Study or ask the Lord.

Answer the question ?

Use an on line concordance, Study , discern your own heart, ask why most churches deem homosexuality the great sin.... why.
 

Its one of the sexual sins, and if God calls it an 'abomination', then to me that says its pretty serious in His eyes..

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #48 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:41:26 »
I said that the sin of Sodom was racism, and all the direct prophecies from Ezekiel onward which say it was the affluence, materialism, nationalism and hatred they had for others which was thier horrible sin.

If you want to start a new thread on homsexuality and how you believe it is a great sin or the greatest sin, go ahead.

But harping on that would be 'hijacking' this thread.

Those are the rules, please follow them.

As I suggested, look up what city is called Sodom in the End Times

Where did Jesus say Capernum was sinful because of their sexuality, no it was their evil pride and nationalism and hatred for outsiders.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #49 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:52:24 »
I said that the sin of Sodom was racism, and all the direct prophecies from Ezekiel onward which say it was the affluence, materialism, nationalism and hatred they had for others which was thier horrible sin.

If you want to start a new thread on homsexuality and how you believe it is a great sin or the greatest sin, go ahead.

But harping on that would be 'hijacking' this thread.

Those are the rules, please follow them.

As I suggested, look up what city is called Sodom in the End Times

Where did Jesus say Capernum was sinful because of their sexuality, no it was their evil pride and nationalism and hatred for outsiders.


 No it wouldn't be irrelevant to this thread, its very relevant actually. Its a simple question. Do you believe God when He says that sex between two men is an abomination?

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #50 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 14:55:49 »
Choosenone, you of all people should know the rules and yet you repeat and try to hijack this thread. Start a new thread and give your reasonings and verses against homosexuality and lesbians and whoever you choose. That's your right. But HERE, this topic is about the evil vile racism of Sodom and Capernaum, and ?????

Come on brethren read...what city is called Sodom in the End Time.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #51 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 15:00:28 »
Choosenone, you of all people should know the rules and yet you repeat and try to hijack this thread. Start a new thread and give your reasonings and verses against homosexuality and lesbians and whoever you choose. That's your right. But HERE, this topic is about the evil vile racism of Sodom and Capernaum, and ?????

Come on brethren read...what city is called Sodom in the End Time.

The question is very very relevant because you are trying to deny that the sin of bestiality was an any way relevant to God destroying this city.  I find it troubling that you refuse to answer, but it may explain why you are desperately trying to make out that their sin of men having sex with men wasnt part or all of the reason God did what He did.

I think most of here have said that these people were clearly just depraved in many ways, including wanting sex with their own sex. It was all part of their immorality and sin. One of several serious sins.

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #52 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 15:02:47 »
The people of Sodom and the people of Capernaum and the people of the most evil city of all in the End Time had hate in their hearts.

Mathew 5
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


Offline fish153

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #53 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 19:26:36 »
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error". (Romans 1)

"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

Please note the above verses.  I do not hate homosexuals, nor do I hate alcoholics.  I am an alcoholic---I have not had a drink for seven years.  I believe alcoholism is hereditary, but it does not give me an excuse to say "I was born this way, therefore I will stay drunk the rest of my life". Neither should a homosexual say because they were born that way they should continue in that lifestyle.

No--according to 1 Corinthians 6 drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God---and neither will homosexuals. Scripture says this, not me. Homosexuality is not the great sin---but it is a sin that if habitually continued in will keep you from the truth, and keep you from Heaven---just as alcoholism will if you do not deny it, and allow the Spirit of God to control your life.

« Last Edit: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 19:33:58 by fish153 »

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #54 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 19:48:20 »
fish, congratulations on winning your battle with alcohol.  I used to work in a long-term hospital and we had a lot of alcoholics.  Very few ever win that battle.  God bless.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #55 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 22:22:54 »
fish, congratulations on winning your battle with alcohol.  I used to work in a long-term hospital and we had a lot of alcoholics.  Very few ever win that battle.  God bless.

Thank you!  It was God's Grace.  Praise the Lord!

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #56 on: Fri Dec 20, 2013 - 23:04:35 »
David, is English your first language?

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #57 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 09:47:23 »
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error". (Romans 1)

"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

Please note the above verses.  I do not hate homosexuals, nor do I hate alcoholics.  I am an alcoholic---I have not had a drink for seven years.  I believe alcoholism is hereditary, but it does not give me an excuse to say "I was born this way, therefore I will stay drunk the rest of my life". Neither should a homosexual say because they were born that way they should continue in that lifestyle.

No--according to 1 Corinthians 6 drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God---and neither will homosexuals. Scripture says this, not me. Homosexuality is not the great sin---but it is a sin that if habitually continued in will keep you from the truth, and keep you from Heaven---just as alcoholism will if you do not deny it, and allow the Spirit of God to control your life.

Soory Jesus said it was His GRACE that saves not your drunkardness or soberness.
This is Grace Forums and it centers around GRACE and not works nor Paul's holiness doctrines that violate what JESUS Said and His GRACE.

We shall start a new TOPIC as obviously people get terribly confused and into law and works and holiness rather than the Lord and His Grace and His LOVE

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #58 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 09:51:41 »
David, is English your first language?

Again, as a University Science graduate, I put principles above semantics. Whereas semenaries of the church system that study in whited cemeteries as the Lord said, study words and word dissection and how to wrangle them into a semantic easy to listen to popular money making machine. I prefer truths and laws and principles and math and missionary work on the field.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #59 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 10:12:18 »
"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error". (Romans 1)

"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

Please note the above verses.  I do not hate homosexuals, nor do I hate alcoholics.  I am an alcoholic---I have not had a drink for seven years.  I believe alcoholism is hereditary, but it does not give me an excuse to say "I was born this way, therefore I will stay drunk the rest of my life". Neither should a homosexual say because they were born that way they should continue in that lifestyle.

No--according to 1 Corinthians 6 drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom of God---and neither will homosexuals. Scripture says this, not me. Homosexuality is not the great sin---but it is a sin that if habitually continued in will keep you from the truth, and keep you from Heaven---just as alcoholism will if you do not deny it, and allow the Spirit of God to control your life.

Soory Jesus said it was His GRACE that saves not your drunkardness or soberness.
This is Grace Forums and it centers around GRACE and not works nor Paul's holiness doctrines that violate what JESUS Said and His GRACE.

We shall start a new TOPIC as obviously people get terribly confused and into law and works and holiness rather than the Lord and His Grace and His LOVE

Fish said nothing to warrant this rebuttal.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #60 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 10:13:07 »
David, is English your first language?

Again, as a University Science graduate, I put principles above semantics. Whereas semenaries of the church system that study in whited cemeteries as the Lord said, study words and word dissection and how to wrangle them into a semantic easy to listen to popular money making machine. I prefer truths and laws and principles and math and missionary work on the field.

Yes, but is that an answer to Never's very simple question?

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #61 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 10:44:45 »
I have made it a rule, never to answer you MeMyself.

But to answer, Nevertheless's personal question in trying to excuse discussing an objective topic that the objectors are objecting to.

Yes, I am Canadian and my first language is English. But then I have been on the mission field for so many years, I have a lot of other languages mixed in there as well.

But I hated semantics (SEE Semantics Topic) word twisting and yet had to take five English courses in University to obtain my degree. This degree I never used, because I became a missionary for Jesus.

So now Nevertheless have you ever taken logic before. Can you do simple math, please answer my simple question.

« Last Edit: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 10:48:03 by Davidjayjordan »

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #62 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 10:53:14 »
You mean not one of you has looked up the city of the End Time called Sodom  You mean none of you are researchers ? Or are you afraid of what you find and can not explain it according to your indocrination in holiness ?

We await your response, or your silence is deafening and indicative of a much greater problem

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #63 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 11:07:17 »
You mean not one of you has looked up the city of the End Time called Sodom  You mean none of you are researchers ? Or are you afraid of what you find and can not explain it according to your indocrination in holiness ?

We await your response, or your silence is deafening and indicative of a much greater problem
 

Maybe we are waiting for you to answer the much more simple question of whether or not you agree with God that sex between 2 men is an abomination. Its simple, yes or no.

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #64 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 11:10:25 »
OK, you aren't much into researching your topic, but allow me to ask you another question, because of one of the ild answers HERE on this thread.

But please go to this thread rather than answering HERE. Remember to always stick to the topic. This one is the racism of Sodom, Capernaum and J**********
Come on you can do it. Read brethren and non brethren READ

( http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/apologetics-forum/holiness-or-grace-can-a-thief-go-to-heaven/ )

**************************

Sadly a poster, used this sad verse of THUS SAITH PAUL to elevate themselves above their past lifestyle.... into a new sinless saint status.....

1 Corinthians

9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

This from the infamous book (1 Corinthians) of Paul where he made up new rules and laws for salvation away from Grace and into Holiness. Thereby giving readers of his book or books the opportunity to turn from Grace to the Law and into Holiness.

Remember Jesus is the final authority, RED LETTER, THUS SAITH THE LORD words from JESUS and His PROPHETS are suppose to establish our PRINCIPLES, so is it Grace or is it WORKS

Is it Grace or is it Law

Is it Grace or is it Holiness

Is it Grace or is it Self Righteousness ?

Can a theif go to heaven ?

You can answer this if you know Jesus or know his life and death ?

This is very important, is it Grace and Jesus Righteousness or is it your own righteousness and supposed new saintlessness and sinless state ?

« Last Edit: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 11:13:41 by Davidjayjordan »

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #65 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 11:15:28 »
Back to Soom and Capernaum and Je*********

You can do this ........... even though it is like pulling teeth.

Try reading the last BOOK OF THUS SAITH THE LORD.

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #66 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 11:54:21 »
Still waiting. is an easy answer, yes or no. Do you agree with God or disagree?.

In the end what does it matter which sin of the many that they were committing that made God destroy them. Often once we allow ourselves to get into a sinful life style, we just go down and more sins follow. Having sex with other men was one of their sins. They were depraved basically.

Offline fish153

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #67 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 12:18:51 »
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.  And that is what some of you WERE. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God". (1 Cor. 6:9-11)

I will post the verse again so that we can see that the verse says "and such WERE some of you"---Grace should change us. We will always have our weaknesses and failings---but we will not live habitually as a homosexual, or thief, or greedy, or drunkard, or as a slanderer or swindler. Can a thief go to Heaven? Of course----but if they believe they are "saved" and continue to steal day after day they show they were never changed by Grace and are not on their way to Heaven. And the same can be said of all those listed above---if they continue to live habitually as drunkards or homosexuals then they have not been changed by Grace.  The Bible is quite clear about that.  That is why 1 Corinthians 6 starts out by saying "do not be deceived.."

Offline Davidjayjordan

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #68 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 12:25:59 »
Can I repost your thoughts on the thread Fish ?

The rules say I can;t unless I get your permission, people there are afraid to respond and choose.

So Fish are you now a sinless saint. Do you ever repeatedly commit sin. Have you had a sinless day yet ? Do you obey every law, and which laws are the ones you keep ?

Fish, is it Grace or is it Works and Self Righteousness or new found Holiness ?

Do you give yourself credit for your new status, or are you still a dirty rotten sinner saved ONLY by the Grace of God ?

Does Jesus now show you even more than ever before how truly a sinner you are. Or are you better than others a whole lot more now than ever before ?

Has your righteousness increased ?

Simple basic questions, but lets do transpose them onto the right thread and right topic. Excellent job though in bringing up this subject about Grace.

Lets now discuss it on that thread and leave this one to Racism and the hatred some people get for other people and strangers.

Offline fish153

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Re: The Sin of Sodom was Racism
« Reply #69 on: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 12:40:42 »
Can I repost your thoughts on the thread Fish ?

The rules say I can;t unless I get your permission, people there are afraid to respond and choose.

So Fish are you now a sinless saint. Do you ever repeatedly commit sin. Have you had a sinless day yet ? Do you obey every law, and which laws are the ones you keep ?

Fish, is it Grace or is it Works and Self Righteousness or new found Holiness ?

Do you give yourself credit for your new status, or are you still a dirty rotten sinner saved ONLY by the Grace of God ?

Does Jesus now show you even more than ever before how truly a sinner you are. Or are you better than others a whole lot more now than ever before ?

Has your righteousness increased ?

Simple basic questions, but lets do transpose them onto the right thread and right topic. Excellent job though in bringing up this subject about Grace.

Lets now discuss it on that thread and leave this one to Racism and the hatred some people get for other people and strangers.

Again, I am completely saved by Grace.  But I do not live habitually in sin. I am an alcoholic, but I do not continue to habitually get drunk daily. I do not defend my right to sin as you appear to be doing.  If you are defending your right to continue in homosexual sin then Grace has not truly touched your heart.

The thief once saved does not CONTINUE to be a thief.  The drunkard saved by Grace does not CONTINUE to defend his right to get drunk.  The homosexual saved by Grace does not CONTINUE a habitual life of sin.  This is what 1 Corinthians 6 is saying.  We are all sinners---we all fail---and we will all continue to fail.  But if our attitude is defending what the Bible calls sin---then the Holy Spirit is not working in us---it is that simple.
« Last Edit: Sat Dec 21, 2013 - 12:44:05 by fish153 »