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Offline Insight

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What did Jesus offer?
« on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02 »
Jesus was required to offer “something
« Last Edit: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 18:07:09 by Insight »

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What did Jesus offer?
« on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 17:33:02 »

cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #1 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49 »
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #1 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 20:59:49 »

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #2 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:04:07 »
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:15:22 »
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

Explain then.

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:15:22 »

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:22:10 »
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

Explain then.

Ok.

Where better to start than the begining of the NT.

Matt 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Why does the Gospel begin revealing Jesus as the son of two sinners?

Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:22:10 »



cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #5 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:27:37 »
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

I understand what Jesus did, but I am not God.  I don't know why he required God the son to come in the flesh and then die on a cross, rise again and then ascend to the right hand of God in the throne in heaven.

I just don't get why he just didn't say okay all you people are forgiven.  I understand the old testament and the new, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

However; I believe in God and I trust in his will and in God even if it doesn't make sense.

Are you telling me that you understand every verse in the bible?  Are you telling me that you understand the complete will of God?

It is not about UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING it is about yielding and bowing down and SEEKING God and not yielding to our own understanding.

Yes I know the biblically principles of sacrifice and atonement and salvation etc, but it just doesn't make sense.  However; if you have ears to hear listen to what I am saying.

Jesus is my God and savior and I seek him and serve him and love him and believe him, and believe what he did and has done.  

If you know God's will perfectly and can calculate his every move good for you.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #6 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:34:25 »
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

Why did this have to be done this way?

I don't really know it doesn't make any sense to me, it seems like God could of just said you people are forgiven instead of having God the son come down as a human and die for us.

I really don't get it, but God required it and I believe his will is perfect even though I don't understand it all.

The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

There is a great deal of error in your response.

Needless to say your salvation is the Body and Blood of Jesus and if you dont understand the atoning principles of salvation what does that say about your salvation?

Insight

I understand what Jesus did, but I am not God.  I don't know why he required God the son to come in the flesh and then die on a cross, rise again and then ascend to the right hand of God in the throne in heaven.

I just don't get why he just didn't say okay all you people are forgiven.  I understand the old testament and the new, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

However; I believe in God and I trust in his will and in God even if it doesn't make sense.

Are you telling me that you understand every verse in the bible?  Are you telling me that you understand the complete will of God?

It is not about UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING it is about yielding and bowing down and SEEKING God and not yielding to our own understanding.

Yes I know the biblically principles of sacrifice and atonement and salvation etc, but it just doesn't make sense.  However; if you have ears to hear listen to what I am saying.

Jesus is my God and savior and I seek him and serve him and love him and believe him, and believe what he did and has done.  

If you know God's will perfectly and can calculate his every move good for you.

Though I did not make the claims of knowing God's Will I sense you feel threatened by my questions.

What if you discovered after living you whole life this God is not the One True God?

What if what you say here is error?

Quote
Jesus is my God and savior and I seek him and serve him and love him and believe him, and believe what he did and has done.  

I won’t push - I sense resistance already.

BTW, if you don’t know the answer to a question there is no harm in learning.  I do it every day.

God Bless

Insight





cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #7 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:47:07 »
OP- please explain, who then is the one true God?

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #8 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 21:56:10 »
OP- please explain, who then is the one true God?

I was trying to show you.

Matt 1:1 This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Why does the Gospel begin by revealing Jesus as the son of two sinners?

Also see Rom 1:3 and Gal 4:4

I dont know about you but the God i know is not the Son of a sinner?

Maybe in your studies you "may" not have asked the right questions of the Word?

I am giving you that opportunity.

Insight


Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #9 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:17:24 »
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh Rom 1:3

It’s one thing to say his was of the genealogy of David, but to make specific reference to David’s flesh?

Why so?

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #10 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:19:37 »
For verily Jesus took NOT on him the nature of angels; but Jesus took on him the nature of Abraham. Heb 2:16

Maybe you should yourself "what was Abraham & David's nature?

And why?

Is Mat 1:1 any clearer?

Insight

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #11 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:22:32 »
And just to prove I am not being bias - if you like I am more than happy to provide a Trinitarian answer.

You only need ask!

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #12 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:34:05 »
Are there 18 people reading this thread who cannot answer Matt 1:1 the very first verse of the New Testament.

I would be staggered if this was the case.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #13 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 22:38:43 »
For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him (Jesus). 2 Cor 5:21

But let’s translate this passage through a Trinitarian filter.

For God hath made God to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in God. 2 Cor 5:21

Is this right?  ::doh::

Is this what you all believe?  ::shrug::


Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #14 on: Tue Nov 29, 2011 - 23:25:15 »
“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #15 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 03:14:43 »
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #16 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 06:56:17 »
cs

Quote
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

This is not quite the Truth, By Christ death, He did reconcile to God those He died for ! Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #17 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 12:53:06 »
cs

Quote
He offered the final and last blood sacrifice, so that people could be reconciled to God.

This is not quite the Truth, By Christ death, He did reconcile to God those He died for ! Rom 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.



Could you clarify what you are trying to say?  There are a few different train of thoughts that could be conceived by the above information you gave.

Also, I think your efforts would be better spent debating with the OP, it seems like he does not believe Jesus is God the son. 

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #18 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:11:38 »
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

If you read Eph 1 you will know there is NO longer a mystery concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus, ALL has been fully revealed.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:9

You just confessed you do not know the Gospel.

Maybe you should read the rest of the Epistle to the Ephesian to find all the places where Paul explains there is NO mystery.

Insight

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #19 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:16:40 »
Then why are you even questioning if you know all the mysteries?

Wouldn't that put you at Hebrews 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

You are exempt from teaching us anything.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #20 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 15:33:54 »
Then why are you even questioning if you know all the mysteries?

Wouldn't that put you at Hebrews 8:11 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest.

You are exempt from teaching us anything.

Then you have ceased from learning?

BTW maybe you have misplaced this verse also. The audience here is in regards to those who still hold onto the old covenant. Maybe you omitted to highlight the context of Heb 8 (a better covenant). 

Paul is acknowledging the earth will not always be in ignorance of the true New Covenant.   Actually this is a direct reference to a time when God will give Israel special "teachers" See Jer 3:15; 23:3,4; Isa 30:14-21; 54:13

Hence those who understand the Mystery of the New Covenant now will led these people into the "new covenant".

Along with the Gentile believers.

Its best to always check the context of a passage before using it to support an unscriptural idea.

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote before in few words, Eph 3:3

I am able to keep posting these truth's until you repent of the unknown mystery which you think you know.

If that is at all possible.

Insight


 
   



cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #21 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:00:40 »
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

If you read Eph 1 you will know there is NO longer a mystery concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus, ALL has been fully revealed.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:9

You just confessed you do not know the Gospel.

Maybe you should read the rest of the Epistle to the Ephesian to find all the places where Paul explains there is NO mystery.

Insight


What do you think Eph 1:9 is saying?  Do you think it is saying that we know God's will in detail?  That we can predict with certainty God's will in all things?

What exactly do YOU think it means?

Also, if Jesus was not God the son in the flesh who do YOU believe Jesus was and is?

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #22 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:01:11 »
Then you have ceased from learning?

Well, I don't mention God in my house anymore but I've learned most about God through my Atheist husband if that tells you anything about where I am on the learning curve.


Quote
I am able to keep posting these truth's until you repent of the unknown mystery which you think you know.

If that is at all possible.

Insight

I'd much rather learn from my husband, he seems to be ahead of his time.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #23 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:05:40 »
Then you have ceased from learning?

Well, I don't mention God in my house anymore but I've learned most about God through my Atheist husband if that tells you anything about where I am on the learning curve.


Quote
I am able to keep posting these truth's until you repent of the unknown mystery which you think you know.

If that is at all possible.

Insight

I'd much rather learn from my husband, he seems to be ahead of his time.

As you wish (John 13:30)

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #24 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:19:08 »

What did Jesus offer?

Answer: Himself

Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me: Hebrews 10:5


Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin you desired not, neither had pleasure in them; which are offered by the law;And afterward he said, “Behold, I have come to do your will, oh God.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #25 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:21:42 »
The point in everything is to believe God even if it sometimes doesn't make sense.  Remember, in revelation John was told not to give a testimony of some things he witnesses, I'm thinking those have to do with the mystery of God's will

Yesterday when I read this, before your response I thought the same thing. Some things will remain a mystery. And now you said it so I know this is correct.

If you read Eph 1 you will know there is NO longer a mystery concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus, ALL has been fully revealed.

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:9

You just confessed you do not know the Gospel.

Maybe you should read the rest of the Epistle to the Ephesian to find all the places where Paul explains there is NO mystery.

Insight


What do you think Eph 1:9 is saying?  Do you think it is saying that we know God's will in detail?  That we can predict with certainty God's will in all things?

What exactly do YOU think it means?

Also, if Jesus was not God the son in the flesh who do YOU believe Jesus was and is?

It is saying the "unknown" mystery of how God would actually reconcile man back to Himslef was hid down through the ages, but through the Keys of the Kingdom whcih were passed from Christ to Peter we now understand how entering the Kingdom age is made possible.

So subjects like the Atonement are lost to Trinitarian believers as we are seeing becuase they do not understand the how and why Jesus was born of a sinner and came in the line of sinners.

These matters are swept away as mysterious because their preconceived doctrine cannot fit within the inspired framework...when this happens you will see denial.

Only those who are willing to set to one side, what they think they know, for the hope of knowing the what they deem as a mystery or the "unknown"

Look at Bitter Sweat's response and tell this is not so.

Insight



Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #26 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:25:36 »

What did Jesus offer?

Answer: Himself

Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me: Hebrews 10:5



Thank you Gospel for providing a simplest of answers.

Why a "body" prepared for me?






Offline gospel

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #27 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:46 »

What did Jesus offer?

Answer: Himself

Therefore when he comes into the world, he says, Sacrifice and offering you desired not, but a body have you prepared me: Hebrews 10:5



Thank you Gospel for providing a simplest of answers.

Why a "body" prepared for me?

As a onetime, once and for all offering for Sin

The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Hebrews 10:14

God promised this prophetically through Abraham

Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together.
Genesis 22:8

Then Abraham raised his eyes and looked, and behold, behind him a ram caught in the thicket by his horns; and Abraham went and took the ram and offered him up for a burnt offering in the place of his son. Genesis 22:13

So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
Genesis 22:14

cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #28 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:38:58 »
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #29 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:51:21 »
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #30 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 16:55:33 »
Quote from: gospel link=topic=59588.msg1054639440#msg1054639440


As a onetime, once and for all offering for Sin


Thanks again Gospel!

Another simple answer.

But what did he do once?

Who needs not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this Jesus did once, when he offered up himself. Heb 7:27

How so for himself if he was sinless?

Don’t be quick to answer! And whatever you do Gospel do not reply with Trinitarian teaching...it won’t fit!




« Last Edit: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:06:16 by Insight »

cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #31 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:37:53 »
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #32 on: Wed Nov 30, 2011 - 17:52:58 »
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Yes lets.

Show me a Scripture that states "God the Son". 

Offline Bitter Sweet

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #33 on: Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 07:15:40 »
He offered God as a sacrifice. So that God will no longer be outside in the world but in each of us, not separating us from God through other people or church or prayer. We are taken out of the world. We don't even have to mention the word God to know God. I may just start calling myself an Atheist again, just so I can live in the fullness of him. But Christians will no longer be a part of the world because there is no god out there, only in us.

Jesus told us to be ready, be ready for what? To change in a blink of an eye.

I don't know if you all are ready, are you? It's going to get really ugly out there in a minute and there isn't anything out there that will help you. But you won't need help anyway when God is already in you.


cs80918

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #34 on: Thu Dec 01, 2011 - 10:34:08 »
Insight- Who do you think Jesus is?  Answer this please.

Good question.

The Bible provides two clear titles.

1. The Son of Man
2. The Son of God

Anything else is false.

Thanks for the answer, but I need more clarification.

Do you believe Jesus is "God the son"?

Do you believe Jesus was "God the son" manifest in the flesh?

Do you believe in God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit?

Do  you believe is not God  the son?

Do you believe Jesus is an angel?

Lets get to the very core of your belief on this subject.

Yes lets.

Show me a Scripture that states "God the Son". 


Show me a scripture that states "Jesus is not God the son".

Instead of playing these games lets just get to the core of this issue.

The bible clearly says that Jesus is God, the son of God, the son of Man, the messiah, the anointed one, the Holy one, the lamb of God (THE ENTIRE LIST IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THIS)

There are many names and titles for Jesus.  He is ALL OF THEM.

Jesus is not just the son of man or the son of God, he is both of them and God and the messiah and he also has many more names.






 

     
anything