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Offline segell

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2011, 08:23:45 AM »
I'm not thinking Insight has much insight.  He surely hasn't shared anything to this point other than declaring himself the one who knows the gospel and yet he hasn't shared anything.  Not a thing.  And he evades direct questions.  I have to wonder if he is on the up and up, frankly.  What started out as a promising question for a thread turns out to be only a comeon for his own off the mark understanding.  Oh well.....

Hi Segell,

Coming to the discussion late one can omit to go back and look at all the unanswered questions.

If you wish me to repost them I am more than able.

Insight


Sorry, Insight.  You just don't offer any, um, insight.  In fact, you haven't really said anything except to debunk God's Word with your unfortunate twisted understanding.  Your views are actually an affront to all who trust in the Lord Jesus as Savior, Redeemer and Creator.  You actually, perhaps without knowing, make a mockery of Christ's life, death and resurrection.

I believe you to be, in a sense, very sincere (your self elevation, however, causes me pause in trying to determine the depth of your sincerity).  But if you are using the New World Bible as your authority, then there really would be no point of the debate, would there?

I don't wish to be disrespectful, but the truth is your teachings should be ignored rather than debated.  Expecially on this sight where, by its name, we explore the grace of God though His Son and our Lord, Jesus.  Jesus is who He said He is.  In the beginning.......

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #105 on: December 02, 2011, 08:23:45 AM »

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #106 on: December 06, 2011, 05:38:01 AM »
insight

Quote
What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself as an sin Offering, for the sins of God's Chosen or the People to make reconciliation for the People Heb 2:16-17

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This was foretold in Isa 53:10-11

 10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #106 on: December 06, 2011, 05:38:01 AM »

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #107 on: December 06, 2011, 02:01:14 PM »
insight

Quote
What exactly did Jesus offer and why?

He offered Himself as an sin Offering, for the sins of God's Chosen or the People to make reconciliation for the People Heb 2:16-17

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

 17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

This was foretold in Isa 53:10-11

 10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?  YOu may like to look at Rom 1:3 and explain why the "flesh" of David?

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #108 on: December 06, 2011, 06:07:13 PM »
insight

Quote
Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?


Scripture says this Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The seed of Abraham is an Chosen People ! Christ came and Idenitifed with a Chosen People, a particular People, not all mankind without exception !

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #108 on: December 06, 2011, 06:07:13 PM »

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #109 on: December 06, 2011, 06:08:09 PM »
insight

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Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?


Scripture says this Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The seed of Abraham is an Chosen People ! Christ came and Idenitifed with a Chosen People, a particular People, not all mankind without exception !

Yes but was does "seed" relate too?

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #109 on: December 06, 2011, 06:08:09 PM »



Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #110 on: December 06, 2011, 07:54:35 PM »
insight

Quote
Can you explain what the seed of Abraham is?


Scripture says this Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

The seed of Abraham is an Chosen People ! Christ came and Idenitifed with a Chosen People, a particular People, not all mankind without exception !

Yes but was does "seed" relate too?

Do your own reasearch !

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #111 on: December 06, 2011, 08:00:35 PM »
He died for the seed of abraham

Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Talking about the Limited intent of the atonement, there is perhaps no scripture that declares it more plainly than this one..

That the GodMan Mediator came to identify with the choice people he came to die for..not all of mankind, but the seed of abraham, that is a chosen people..

Ps 105:6

O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend

remember Jesus said :

Jn 15:13

13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.[chosen ones]

When paul declared in 1 Cor 15:3

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

our sins = The seed of abraham

Heb 2:17,16

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].

Notice, it says made like unto His brethern, which is the seed of abraham..

This is the same brethern as in Rom 8:29

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Yes, the seed of abraham is distinguished and particular, but the scope was broad, the scope was the world, and not Just israel..

Rom 4:18

18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

So, yes limited atonement is true, and must be preached truthfully or you have no gospel..

That Jesus christ came and Identifed with , the seed of abraham, and died for the seed of abraham, and rose again for the Justification of the seed of abraham...This is the Gospel of the Kingdom..

Yes, no doubt, all are sinners, but not all sinners are of the seed of abraham..

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #112 on: December 06, 2011, 08:09:05 PM »
He died for the seed of abraham

Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


I want you to explain and define what nature Jesus took on as per your above.  Now I could tell you but are you likely to listen?

Quote

Heb 2:17,16

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren[seed of abraham], that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people[seed of abraham].


You are quoting very strong verses but exactly how was Jesus like his brothers?

Insight

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2011, 05:08:51 AM »
insight

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I want you to explain and define what nature Jesus took on as per your above.

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35

Quote
Now I could tell you but are you likely to listen?


Well do it and quit talking about it, but that does not mean one has to agree with it. I have given my definition for now !

Quote
You are quoting very strong verses but exactly how was Jesus like his brothers?


Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Now if you have something different for us then get to explaining and quit asking me to do your work !


Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #114 on: December 08, 2011, 08:35:21 PM »
Hi Beloved.

Let me say this of your posts, which I find extremely interesting.  You have quoted Scriptures that very few Christians quote.  For instance, go and look at Gospel's or others of his ilk to see if they quote these verses with any understanding at all.

They avoid them like the plague and rightly so.

"you go where few Christians dear to journey" into the very nature of Christ.

To enter his flesh one must leave the trinity at the door.

insight

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35


So Jesus dwelt as Paul states in Sin’s Flesh?

Quote

Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


So from this verse you believe Jesus had the exact same sin prone nature as you and I; that his flesh was held under the dominion of death until he crucified his flesh on the cross?

You also believe from this verse that the devil is not some supernatural mystical being ruling over the powers of darkness but in this verse represents sin.

For what had the power of death in Christ?

Look up Rom 6:23

Insight

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #115 on: December 09, 2011, 12:23:33 AM »
Hi Beloved.

Let me say this of your posts, which I find extremely interesting.  You have quoted Scriptures that very few Christians quote.  For instance, go and look at Gospel's or others of his ilk to see if they quote these verses with any understanding at all.

They avoid them like the plague and rightly so.

"you go where few Christians dear to journey" into the very nature of Christ.

To enter his flesh one must leave the trinity at the door.

insight

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35


So Jesus dwelt as Paul states in Sin’s Flesh?

Quote

Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


So from this verse you believe Jesus had the exact same sin prone nature as you and I; that his flesh was held under the dominion of death until he crucified his flesh on the cross?

You also believe from this verse that the devil is not some supernatural mystical being ruling over the powers of darkness but in this verse represents sin.

For what had the power of death in Christ?

Look up Rom 6:23

Insight

You are going off into a direction that I am not interest in..

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #116 on: December 09, 2011, 01:27:38 PM »
Hi Beloved.

Let me say this of your posts, which I find extremely interesting.  You have quoted Scriptures that very few Christians quote.  For instance, go and look at Gospel's or others of his ilk to see if they quote these verses with any understanding at all.

They avoid them like the plague and rightly so.

"you go where few Christians dear to journey" into the very nature of Christ.

To enter his flesh one must leave the trinity at the door.

insight

I already did ! Now you do your own work, or are you too lazy ? Thats not debate on your part to ask people to explain something you bring into the debate. Each person should be able to explain what they bring to the debate. I already showed that the seed of Abraham Jesus came and identifed with is a Chosen People ! See my post from yesterday at 2100:35


So Jesus dwelt as Paul states in Sin’s Flesh?

Quote

Thats pretty obvious from the passage Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


So from this verse you believe Jesus had the exact same sin prone nature as you and I; that his flesh was held under the dominion of death until he crucified his flesh on the cross?

You also believe from this verse that the devil is not some supernatural mystical being ruling over the powers of darkness but in this verse represents sin.

For what had the power of death in Christ?

Look up Rom 6:23

Insight

You are going off into a direction that I am not interest in..

Yes, its called truth.... but very few have gone there.  Many Christians today like the teachings that are palatable and easy on the senses. Sadly few understand the true nature of Jesus Christ.

The question has been put forth unanswered.

For sin to be condemned in the nature of Jesus Christ it had to be there in some form.

You should know once this is properly understood the whole Bible message is revealed.

Nice chatting.

Insight



Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #117 on: December 21, 2011, 02:56:45 AM »
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..

Offline Insight

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #118 on: December 21, 2011, 03:08:50 PM »
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..

By being born of a sinful woman and born into fallen stock such as Abraham, David etc

Why was this necessary?

Offline beloved57

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Re: What did Jesus offer?
« Reply #119 on: December 21, 2011, 10:25:49 PM »
Heb 2:16

He took on the seed of abraham, this is a very important truth here, and when duly considered, it is plain to understand that its the seed only that shall benefit in the advantages of the Incarnation, sufferings and death, and resurrection of Jesus christ, the seed [ Gal 3:16] The seed of abraham are the True Israel, Spiritual, the elect of God : Gal 3 , Rom 2 Rom 9-11 ; Eph 2..

By It being said that He took on the seed of abraham, also means that Jesus did not come to Identify with and die for all of mankind, but only for a seed, a remnant..

By being born of a sinful woman and born into fallen stock such as Abraham, David etc

Why was this necessary?


It fulfilled prophesy. He was said to be the Son of Abraham and of David ! What say you ? Explain your own questions !