Author Topic: Why the Law Is Not Abolished, Yet Circumcision, Festivals, Sabbaths Not Observed  (Read 4158 times)

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Offline Open Heart

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As a Messianic Jew, I believe fully that the law is not abrogated until heaven and earth have passed away.  I'm lookin' outside my front door and heaven and earth are still there, yessiree!  Not even a single brushstroke will pass away until all is finished, and folks, it's not finished until the Messiah judges the living and the dead.


The question is not whether we should obey God's commands.  Rather, the question should be, what are God's commands to me?  Because not everyone has the same commands.  There are commands God gives to everyone beginning in Genesis, do not murder, do not cheat, do not steal, do not worship other gods.  And there are commands God has given only to the Jews (And the LORD said, Speak to the Children of Isreal...) such as don't eat pork, don't sleep with your menstruating wife, don't wear a wool jacket that has linen button holes...


As a Jewish believer, I aspire to keep the commands given to Israel that apply to me.  A gentile doesn't have to keep kosher or rest on the Shabbat.  They sure can if they want.  But they don't have to. 


And don't forget that we all of us have to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves.

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Offline soterion

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As a Messianic Jew, I believe fully that the law is not abrogated until heaven and earth have passed away.  I'm lookin' outside my front door and heaven and earth are still there, yessiree!  Not even a single brushstroke will pass away until all is finished, and folks, it's not finished until the Messiah judges the living and the dead.

You should reread Jesus words to that affect in Matthew 5:18 in light of what the letter to the Hebrews says about the law. You should see that "heaven and earth passing away" is not the deciding factor regarding the law, but rather it is the "all being accomplished" that decides.

Quote
The question is not whether we should obey God's commands.  Rather, the question should be, what are God's commands to me?  Because not everyone has the same commands.  There are commands God gives to everyone beginning in Genesis, do not murder, do not cheat, do not steal, do not worship other gods.  And there are commands God has given only to the Jews (And the LORD said, Speak to the Children of Isreal...) such as don't eat pork, don't sleep with your menstruating wife, don't wear a wool jacket that has linen button holes...


As a Jewish believer, I aspire to keep the commands given to Israel that apply to me.  A gentile doesn't have to keep kosher or rest on the Shabbat.  They sure can if they want.  But they don't have to.

So, God gives different laws according to the fleshly identity of people, despite the fact that in Christ all are subject to the New Covenant, regardless if Jew or Gentile? In the New Covenant, God wants all in Christ to follow Him and to be united in the one body, worshiping God and walking daily in Him as one. By dividing what laws people are to follow, you just divided people according to their fleshly identities and made them incompatible. You are keeping the Jews subject to the Old Covenant, thus excluding them from the New.

Quote
And don't forget that we all of us have to love God with all our heart, soul, and strength, and our neighbor as ourselves.

This is why I posted the above to you.

Offline Choir Loft

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This study explains why although the Law of Moses has not been abolished, nor can any command therein be disobeyed, certain commands are no longer observed, such as circumcision, festivals, sabbaths, and abstaining from certain foods. The study can be found in English here http://www.wisdomofgod.co/2017/02/24/explanation-of-the-foreshadows-of-the-law-of-moses-festivals-sacrifices-circumcision-sabbaths-foods/ or in Spanish here http://www.sabiduriadedios.co/2017/02/24/por-que-la-ley-no-es-abolida-sin-embargo-la-circuncision-festivales-sacrificios-sabados-alimentos-ya-no-se-observan/ . Let us begin a discussion on these matters.


Your opening statement begins with misunderstanding and leads to theological error.

Levitical Law totaled some 613 laws.  Following the Babylonian captivity and the writing of the Talmud hundreds more were added.
Mosaic Law totaled 10, while Jesus whittled the number down to 2.

"I did not come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it." - Jesus quoted by Matthew 5:17

JUDAISM certainly does continue to observe circumcision sabbaths and dietary restrictions.  Consult your local rabbi for a confirmation of these facts.  Sacrifices have ended and certain ceremonial observances have ended simply because there is NO TEMPLE to provide the venue for their observance.  There is no venue to provide a location for animal sacrifices.

Which LAW did Jesus come to fulfill?

CHRISTIANITY today teaches a false lawLESS gospel in that it is said they are saved by grace so that they can live like hell.

I once heard a lengthy sermon on grace delivered by the Dean of a local Bible college.  At the end of the sermon he advocated the congregation, "go out and sin this week that grace may abound."   The purpose of grace is to enable the believer to live according to the Law, thus pleasing God.

CHRISTIANITY today is almost totally gutted of Law.  Most Christians do not know the Law, neither do they know its purpose except to express heated opinion against it.  Therefore sin runs rampant in our houses of prayer.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

The Law still stands. It has NOT been destroyed or abolished.  Further, though many Christians may not know it or acknowledge it, no one can be save apart from the Law.  The issue is lack of education and instruction.  The subject of repentance is almost never discussed in sermons and studies, though it is indeed a foundation for salvation.  Repentance is a hard subject and potentially results in a loss of donation$, which is why it's almost never brought up.

The Law still stands.  Believe it or be buried by it.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Once upon a time God approached the Arabs and asked if they would like to have His Law.
"What does this law require of us," the Arabs asked.
"Thou shalt not kill," said the Lord of Hosts
"Oh no," the Arabs cried.  "We cannot have such a law. Go away from us."

Then God approached Americans and asked if they would like to have His Law.
"What does this law deny us," the Americans asked.
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods or thy neighbor's wife," God explained.
"No no never," the Americans said.  "We cannot live without covetousness.  Please leave us."

Finally God came to the Jews and asked if they would like to have His Law.
"What does it cost," the Jews asked.
"Nothing," God said.  "My Law is free."
"Good," the Jews said.  "Give us ten."
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 10, 2019 - 07:40:42 by Choir Loft »

Offline SkyWriting

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This study explains why although the Law of Moses has not been abolished, nor can any command therein be disobeyed, certain commands are no longer observed, such as circumcision, festivals, sabbaths, and abstaining from certain foods.

Scripture says the laws in ink or stone are obsolete.  They cannot be abolished as they are part of Christian history.

Offline SwordMaster

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the 10 Commandments have been abolished as originally given, just as Scripture tells us...

Matthew 11:12-13
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,

Hebrews 10:9
then He added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

Luke 16:16
The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.

Hebrews 8:13
In that He said a new covenant, He abrogates the first one, and it is abrogated and has become old, and vanishing away as we speak.

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law [of Moses], having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.


Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under the law [of Moses] but under grace.

2 Corinthians 3:11
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Hebrews 7:18
Because on the one hand, the former law is abrogated because it was weak and useless,

There...ten verses that tell us clearly and plainly that the old covenant along with its law, was abrogated and replaced by the New Covenant and its new law - the Law of Christ. The only way to get around that in your mind, is to be a modern day Pharisee like these guys (who were denounced for their moronity)...

Acts 15:1
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."

Acts 15:5
But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."

And what was the Church's response to these yahoo's? They went back to Jesus' teaching when He said that we are not to mix new wine with old wine skins, because they don't mix. The old covenant and everything that came with it is gone today for those who are in Christ, and the 10 commandments and all of the laws that came with the old covenant, came out of the old covenant, they were part of the old covenant.

That covenant is completely gone today, so that means that the old law that you are arguing over is also gone. You can disagree all you want, but you are not disagreeing with me, you are telling God that He doesn't know what He is talking about in His Word. And that puts you in a very dangerous place as a false teacher.



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Offline 4WD

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You can disagree all you want, but you are not disagreeing with me, you are telling God that He doesn't know what He is talking about in His Word. And that puts you in a very dangerous place as a false teacher.
You really need to stop with that Bovine Scat.  Whether you are correct in this case or not, you do not have any authority with respect to what God means by what He has written.  You are not the arbiter of God's word.

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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CL: #107that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
Once upon a time God approached the Arabs and asked if they would like to have His Law.
"What does this law require of us," the Arabs asked.
"Thou shalt not kill," said the Lord of Hosts
"Oh no," the Arabs cried.  "We cannot have such a law. Go away from us."

Then God approached Americans and asked if they would like to have His Law.
"What does this law deny us," the Americans asked.
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods or thy neighbor's wife," God explained.
"No no never," the Americans said.  "We cannot live without covetousness.  Please leave us."

Finally God came to the Jews and asked if they would like to have His Law.
"What does it cost," the Jews asked.
"Nothing," God said.  "My Law is free."
"Good," the Jews said.  "Give us ten."

What did you ask the Lord? Does it come with the score?

For most Christians God's Law is for no more than the singing.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 08, 2019 - 11:52:08 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Quote
SM: #109
the 10 Commandments have been abolished as originally given, just as Scripture tells us...

Matthew 11:12-13
From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John,

Hebrews 10:9
then He added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in Himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,

Luke 16:16
The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it.

Hebrews 8:13
In that He said a new covenant, He abrogates the first one, and it is abrogated and has become old, and vanishing away as we speak.

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

Romans 7:6
But now we are released from the law [of Moses], having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.


Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under the law [of Moses] but under grace.

2 Corinthians 3:11
For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.

Hebrews 7:18
Because on the one hand, the former law is abrogated because it was weak and useless,

There...ten verses that tell us clearly and plainly that the old covenant along with its law, was abrogated and replaced by the New Covenant and its new law - the Law of Christ. The only way to get around that in your mind, is to be a modern day Pharisee like these guys (who were denounced for their moronity)...

Acts 15:1
But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brothers, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved."

Acts 15:5
But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."

And what was the Church's response to these yahoo's? They went back to Jesus' teaching when He said that we are not to mix new wine with old wine skins, because they don't mix. The old covenant and everything that came with it is gone today for those who are in Christ, and the 10 commandments and all of the laws that came with the old covenant, came out of the old covenant, they were part of the old covenant.

That covenant is completely gone today, so that means that the old law that you are arguing over is also gone. You can disagree all you want, but you are not disagreeing with me, you are telling God that He doesn't know what He is talking about in His Word. And that puts you in a very dangerous place as a false teacher.

I with all due disrespect reject this cauldron of cultist religious mampoer you brewed from your MIX and DICING with the pure milk of God's Word.



Offline SkyWriting

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I with all due disrespect reject this cauldron of cultist religious mampoer you brewed from your MIX and DICING with the pure milk of God's Word.


Unbiased research wins easily over sloppy criticism.  Please do check all the context.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews 9:15    
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Hebrews 8:7-8
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

2 Corinthians 3:6    
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Jeremiah 31:33    
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.



Offline SwordMaster

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You really need to stop with that Bovine Scat.  Whether you are correct in this case or not, you do not have any authority with respect to what God means by what He has written.  You are not the arbiter of God's word.

I am not like you, 4wd...I don't pussy foot around with the Word of God, and unlike yourself, which you have demonstrated many times, I know how to interpret the Scriptures.

There is only black and white. Scripture says that the old covenant along with its law was abrogated, therefore, with the authority of the Scriptures behind me, I will say it again...and if you don't like it, that's really just too bad for you, I'm not the one believing in lies.

« Last Edit: Mon Jul 08, 2019 - 20:41:31 by SwordMaster »

Offline SwordMaster

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I with all due disrespect reject this cauldron of cultist religious mampoer you brewed from your MIX and DICING with the pure milk of God's Word.

You can all you want to, GE...but the facts remain. You can argue that a rock is a tree all you want, but the facts still remain the same. If you can't see those Scriptural facts, then I suggest you need to start walking with God so that you will have the indwelling Spirit within you to help you see the truth...

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.




Offline SwordMaster

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Unbiased research wins easily over sloppy criticism.  Please do check all the context.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Hebrews 9:15    
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Hebrews 8:13
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Luke 22:20
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.

Hebrews 8:6
But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Hebrews 8:7-8
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

2 Corinthians 3:6    
Who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Jeremiah 31:33    
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

It is hard to tell who you are addressing in your post, SW. If you are addressing me, the passages that I give are defined by their contexts, and they all concur that the old covenant and its law are no more. Every word of Paul addresing the law directly references the old covenant, and the reason that he says we are not under the 10 commandments today is precisely because they no longer exist as given to Moses.

Their contexts back what I show.

Offline Ohan

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The Law ~ The Ten Commandments

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Quote
CGA: #6
Where do you suppose "do not kill" came from? Where do you suppose "do not steal" came from? Even "love your neighbor as yourself", where do you suppose this command came from? These are all commandments of the law, open your eyes.

Good.
Now you open your eyes and read John 19:17 Mark 15:22 Matthew 27:33 Luke 23:33a, to, John 19:30 Mark 15:37 Matthew 27:50 Luke 23:46, AND SEE ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LAW -- SEE GOD : "NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY".

THEN, keeping open the eyes of your understanding Ephesiens 1:18, read Ephesians 1:19-23 Hebrews 4:4-8 [Exodus 31:17] Colossians 2:12-19 et al, AND SEE ALL THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LAW -- SEE GOD : IN "CHRIST RAISED FROM THE DEAD, EXALTED, AND RESTED AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD .. GIVEN TO THE CHURCH AS HEAD".



« Last Edit: Tue Jul 09, 2019 - 02:02:35 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline SherryLB

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I am not like you, 4wd...I don't pussy foot around with the Word of God, and unlike yourself, which you have demonstrated many times, I know how to interpret the Scriptures.
You are one proud  Pharisee~even your name proves that....SwordMaster, yet your post does not support it. It's all coming from the vanity of your puff up mind.
Quote from: The MASTER of the PHARISEES Yesterday at 20:34:40
There is only black and white. Scripture says that the old covenant along with its law was abrogated, therefore, with the authority of the Scriptures behind me, I will say it again...and if you don't like it, that's really just too bad for you, I'm not the one believing in lies.
Yes, you are the one believing the lie.

The saints are not under the law as the means of entering into life, yet they are UNDER it as a RULE OF LIFE, for there's no greater law that is MORE spiritual, holy and good, than the law of God.

Do you want to debate this with me, Mr. Proud Pharisees?
« Last Edit: Tue Jul 09, 2019 - 06:15:05 by SherryLB »

Offline 4WD

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I am not like you, 4wd...
And I am not like you, Praise be to God.  The narcissism and arrogance with which you promulgate Bovine Scat is your signature character trait. You demonstrate that at nearly every interchange here at the forum. And you have done it again.





Offline SherryLB

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And I am not like you, Praise be to God.  The narcissism and arrogance with which you promulgate Bovine Scat is your signature character trait. You demonstrate that at nearly every interchange here at the forum. And you have done it again.
One word for him from heaven:
Quote
Jeremiah 13:23~ "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil."

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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Sword Misser: #115
You can all you want to, GE...but the facts remain. You can argue that a rock is a tree all you want, but the facts still remain the same. If you can't see those Scriptural facts, then I suggest you need to start walking with God so that you will have the indwelling Spirit within you to help you see the truth...

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

The one fact Luke 24:25-27;32; 44-46 of ALL SCRIPTURE remain, That "the Rock was Christ" CRUCIFIED on "The Tree of LIFE" .. "and the WRITING was JESUS of Nazareth KING .. WRITTEN IN LATIN, REX LEX".

"Then opened _HE_ Jesus, their understanding that they might understand the SCRIPTURES" .. sorry, no quasi Holy Spirit OF YOURS or mine, thank God! 
« Last Edit: Tue Jul 09, 2019 - 08:29:38 by Gerhard Ebersöhn »

Offline Gerhard Ebersöhn

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SLB: #119
The saints are not under the law as the means of entering into life, yet they are UNDER it as a RULE OF LIFE, for there's no greater law that is MORE spiritual, holy and good, than the law of God.

The saints are not under the law as the means of entering into life, BECAUSE they are under and in and "with CHRIST hidden in God" WHO IS the LAW OF GOD their RULER and LORD OF LIFE, for there's no greater Law that is more "SPIRITUAL, HOLY and GOOD", than the WORD OF GOD because "there is only ONE that is good", the WORD OF LIFE.

Of course the Christian all day long his whole life through meditates on the OT Law of the Holy Scriptures, but of course because they have one God-given and God-Inspired worth, to WITNESS OF THE LIVING JESUS THE CHRIST OF GOD.

Offline SkyWriting

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It is hard to tell who you are addressing in your post, SW.

It very easy to tell. ::destroyingcomputer::

Offline SwordMaster

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You are one proud  Pharisee~even your name proves that....SwordMaster, yet your post does not support it. It's all coming from the vanity of your puff up mind. Yes, you are the one believing the lie.

The saints are not under the law as the means of entering into life, yet they are UNDER it as a RULE OF LIFE, for there's no greater law that is MORE spiritual, holy and good, than the law of God.

Do you want to debate this with me, Mr. Proud Pharisees?

Another Red...wonderful. Actually, SLB, your tone makes you the proud Pharisee, and I will debate you any time...be prepared to lose.

The passages that I have already posted, in black and white, say that the old covenant and everything that came with it, including the law that came from it, called in Scripture "the law," "the law of Moses," and the "10 commandments," as they were given, have all been abrogated.

Now, if you have some passage that you think negates these, I would love to see it. And don't bother pulling Matthew 5:17-18 on me unless you read it in the Greek and see where most translations today butcher the text.

Waiting your prideful reply...


Offline SwordMaster

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And I am not like you, Praise be to God.  The narcissism and arrogance with which you promulgate Bovine Scat is your signature character trait. You demonstrate that at nearly every interchange here at the forum. And you have done it again.

Sorry, drive...but your name calling won't help you any. And don't call my confidence in my knowledge of Scripture as narcissism or arrogance. It's not my fault if you are not as knowledgable on Scripture as I am. That's not pride or arrogance, that's just the facts.


Offline SwordMaster

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One word for him from heaven:

You are pretty young here to be saying anything about anyone, SLB. I would curb my tongue if I were you, because you don't have a bit of sense of what you are talking about.


Offline SwordMaster

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The saints are not under the law as the means of entering into life, BECAUSE they are under and in and "with CHRIST hidden in God" WHO IS the LAW OF GOD their RULER and LORD OF LIFE, for there's no greater Law that is more "SPIRITUAL, HOLY and GOOD", than the WORD OF GOD because "there is only ONE that is good", the WORD OF LIFE.

Of course the Christian all day long his whole life through meditates on the OT Law of the Holy Scriptures, but of course because they have one God-given and God-Inspired worth, to WITNESS OF THE LIVING JESUS THE CHRIST OF GOD.

See, this is where your limited knowledge and understanding of Scripture throws you guys off. You are under law, its just a different law, the Law of Christ. You fail to understand this because you fail to understand or have accurate knowledge of covenants. Every covenant has law...and the old law that came with the old covenant, was done away with and replaced by the new law (of Christ) in the New Covenant.

You are still under law, and only those caught up in the false teachings of calvinism and the like, deny that very fact.


Offline SwordMaster

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It very easy to tell. ::destroyingcomputer::

Actually, only in your own mind, perhaps. Nonetheless, if you were addressing my post, then you are off point. Nothing you posted as context changed what I posted...because I always consider the context in my interpretations...just like we are supposed to do.

But nice try.


Offline 4WD

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Sorry, drive...but your name calling won't help you any. And don't call my confidence in my knowledge of Scripture as narcissism or arrogance. It's not my fault if you are not as knowledgable on Scripture as I am. That's not pride or arrogance, that's just the facts.
Nothing in what I posted was name calling. It was just an observation of the character you display here.  As for being knowledgeable, perhaps you should bone up on the spelling of the word before you taut it as one of your qualities.  ::frown::

Offline SherryLB

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You are pretty young here to be saying anything about anyone, SLB. I would curb my tongue if I were you, because you don't have a bit of sense of what you are talking about.
I will not enter into a war of words with you because it would only take me away from allowing the light of Jesus Christ from shinning through me as I'm commanded for it to do.
Quote from: SwordMaster on: Yesterday at 21:38:50
Another Red...wonderful
The wisest thing you said in your four posts, and thank you for the great compliment, it was a honor sir.

Offline SherryLB

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The passages that I have already posted, in black and white, say that the old covenant and everything that came with it, including the law that came from it, called in Scripture "the law," "the law of Moses," and the "10 commandments," as they were given, have all been abrogated.
Well now, let's see who is still wet behind the ears, I'm pretty I know, and so does 4WD. It is YOU, that thinks he knows, yet we both know that he does not know.
Quote from: Paul
1st Timothy 1:6-8~"From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling. Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;"
You sir, have turned aside to vain jangling and do not know how to use the law of God properly. You are nothing more than a loud noise maker foming out of your own shame, a wandering star, to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

The holy apostles used the law of God properly, for proof consider and learn:
Quote from: James
James 2:8-11~"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
I have many more, but I do not want to overload your little mind. 
« Last Edit: Wed Jul 10, 2019 - 06:42:20 by SherryLB »

Offline SwordMaster

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Nothing in what I posted was name calling. It was just an observation of the character you display here.  As for being knowledgeable, perhaps you should bone up on the spelling of the word before you taut it as one of your qualities.  ::frown::

Wow...that's the best you've got?


Offline SwordMaster

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I will not enter into a war of words with you because it would only take me away from allowing the light of Jesus Christ from shinning through me as I'm commanded for it to do.The wisest thing you said in your four posts, and thank you for the great compliment, it was a honor sir.

HA! First, agreeing that you are another Red is a very sorry case that you make for yourself, there is no honor there at all, only blindness.

Second, what you call 'light' is nothing more than a shadow of the light, you have already demonstrated that in the few words that you have spoken out of complete ignorance of the Word.

Starting off not so good there, on your part.

But anyways, lets get back to Scripture, shall we?


Offline SwordMaster

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Yep, a chip off the old Red block...probably one of his misguided church members...

Quote
Quote from: SwordMaster on Yesterday at 21:38:50

   
Quote
The passages that I have already posted, in black and white, say that the old covenant and everything that came with it, including the law that came from it, called in Scripture "the law," "the law of Moses," and the "10 commandments," as they were given, have all been abrogated.


Well now, let's see who is still wet behind the ears, I'm pretty I know, and so does 4WD. It is YOU, that thinks he knows, yet we both know that he does not know.

Talk about vain and arrogant...

Quote from: Paul

   
Quote
1st Timothy 1:6-8~"From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling. Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;"

You sir, have turned aside to vain jangling and do not know how to use the law of God properly. You are nothing more than a loud noise maker foming out of your own shame, a wandering star, to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

You really are demonstrating yourself really pathetic here. I gave Scripture that demonstrates that the old covenant and its law has been abrogated, and rather than give any kind of Scriptural evidence that you think states otherwise, instead...you give your rants and ravings about calling someone a lost unsaved person (which will get you a Warning from the board if you keep it up).

What you do, is demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about, and because you have nothing to say Scripturally about the topic at hand, you (like your uncle Red) revert to underhanded nonsense spouting, attributing passages of Scripture to others which, undoubtedly, actually refer to yourself. So...my advice, is put your money where your mouth is and produce some kind of Scripture that you think proves me wrong. Either that, or kindly shut your cake hole.  ::smile::

Quote
The holy apostles used the law of God properly, for proof consider and learn:
Quote from: James

    James 2:8-11~"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

I have many more, but I do not want to overload your little mind. 


Yaaaahhhhh......well, that has absolutely nothing to do with the current topic. Care to explain out of your little mind how this applies? If (and that's a big if, seeing as how you put yourself out there as being knowledgeable of the Scriptures), you are trying to say that because James says "law" that the law he is referring to is the 10 commandments...if that is your point, in that somehow it means the 10 commandments are still in effect today...IF that is your point, you are sadly mistaken and demonstrate that you don't know how to properly and accurately interpret Scripture.

Since the KJV is warped and full of translation errors, we will look at it from the original Greek in a thought-for-thought translation...

Quote
8   If you really carry out the Royal Law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” to its intended goal, then you are doing well.   
9   But if you show favoritism to certain people, then you are sinning and will be convicted by the law as transgressors.   
10   Because whoever keeps the whole law of Moses but falls into sin on even one point, he has become accountable for breaking all of it.   
11   Because He who commanded, “Do not commit adultery,” also commanded, “Do not murder.” So, if you do not commit adultery, but you go out and murder someone, then you have become a transgressor of the law.
   

First, since you obviously don't see it, the law that James first addresses is the Royal Law (that is, the Law of Christ, NOT the 10 commandments). Second, he is comparing the two laws against one another...the Law of Christ against the law of Moses, which he only addresses as "law" in word, but as seasoned theologians understand, he intends the law of Moses. How do we know that? Because the Law of Christ does not say "do not commit" this or that; the Law of Christ says, "love on others."

Failing to understand the difference between the two laws, just as your uncle Red does, causes you to make grievous errors in your interpretation of the Word of God.



Offline 4WD

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Wow...that's the best you've got?
That'll do for now.  Besides, for much of what you post you are so far out in left field it is not worth any more.

Offline 4WD

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Because the Law of Christ does not say "do not commit" this or that; the Law of Christ says, "love on others."
Interesting.  I guess that means you think it is acceptable for you to put down your terminally ill wife or child whom you love just as you would your terminally ill dog whom you love.

Offline SkyWriting

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Interesting.  I guess that means you think it is acceptable for you to put down your terminally ill wife or child whom you love just as you would your terminally ill dog whom you love.

I don't love my dog the same.  There are at least 4 types of "love".
Pizza, dogs, prostitutes, and mom all get different types of love.

Offline SwordMaster

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That'll do for now.  Besides, for much of what you post you are so far out in left field it is not worth any more.

Another way of conceding that you have lost the argument.

That's OK...because you did lose, and bad. Scripture is black and white on the matter, and the only way someone can look at what Scripture teaches on the subject and still cling to the idea that we are under the 10 commandments, is to cherry pick the Bible to death.

Have at it. You used to be worth conversing with...what happened since I stopped posting?


 

     
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