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Offline Truthlady5

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Church attendance
« on: Wed Feb 27, 2013 - 13:40:14 »

The bible speaks of not failing to assemble ourself together with other believers. Why is it that some Christians think they do not need a Church to go to in order to serve the Lord? I know we can not answer for how every Christian thinks on things but is it really Ok for Christians to not go to church but maybe go to group home meetings or study online? This is just something I would like Your  thoughts on. Scripture would also be appreciated for reference.


Offline Dave H.

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #1 on: Wed Feb 27, 2013 - 14:05:07 »
I cannot speak for others, nor do I want to. But as for me, I know I need it. Church is my re-fueling station. I also do several small groups through the week. For me it's all part of the "growing process". I have only been Born Again for 8 short years. So I have a lot of catching up to do.

Offline Cally

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #2 on: Wed Feb 27, 2013 - 14:22:45 »
As I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, to be perfectly honest, I am afraid of being in the same boat as gatherings that ignore almost everything scripture says that a gathering should do. Remember how Jesus chewed out six out of the seven churches in Revelation? Do I want to be in the same boat as they?

When I see a church that is doing (or at least noticeably making an effort to do) what the Bible actually SAYS about what the gathering is really all about--most of which is covered between the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians--SIGN ME UP! In the meantime I'm working on salvaging my well-being after making some near-fatal mistakes of wasting time with people who would play games, refer to me as "brother," while I was alone all along. The love of God (and my role in being absolutely submissive to him) is another thing entirely. God's word has opened up to me and I believe that I do not suffer the sort of torment that church-goers are (typically) going through in so many ways--not a credit to me, but to God who sustains me. However, yes, I long for the gathering as Scripture taught it. I'm still hopeful that there may be a future for seeing more groups that are truly "set apart," especially as our surrounding culture is crumbling.

Offline Seriousseeker

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #3 on: Thu Feb 28, 2013 - 14:27:54 »
Good thoughts, Cally.

Offline Vince

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #4 on: Thu Feb 28, 2013 - 14:33:43 »
As I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, to be perfectly honest, I am afraid of being in the same boat as gatherings that ignore almost everything scripture says that a gathering should do. Remember how Jesus chewed out six out of the seven churches in Revelation? Do I want to be in the same boat as they?

When I see a church that is doing (or at least noticeably making an effort to do) what the Bible actually SAYS about what the gathering is really all about--most of which is covered between the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians--SIGN ME UP! In the meantime I'm working on salvaging my well-being after making some near-fatal mistakes of wasting time with people who would play games, refer to me as "brother," while I was alone all along. The love of God (and my role in being absolutely submissive to him) is another thing entirely. God's word has opened up to me and I believe that I do not suffer the sort of torment that church-goers are (typically) going through in so many ways--not a credit to me, but to God who sustains me. However, yes, I long for the gathering as Scripture taught it. I'm still hopeful that there may be a future for seeing more groups that are truly "set apart," especially as our surrounding culture is crumbling.
In my opinion since any congregation is filled with sinners you will never find a church that models the Biblical church exactly.  I take what the Bible says about this as a command without any escape clause and do my best to find a Biblical congregation to belong to.

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #4 on: Thu Feb 28, 2013 - 14:33:43 »



Offline Cally

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #5 on: Thu Feb 28, 2013 - 14:38:56 »
As I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, to be perfectly honest, I am afraid of being in the same boat as gatherings that ignore almost everything scripture says that a gathering should do. Remember how Jesus chewed out six out of the seven churches in Revelation? Do I want to be in the same boat as they?

When I see a church that is doing (or at least noticeably making an effort to do) what the Bible actually SAYS about what the gathering is really all about--most of which is covered between the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians--SIGN ME UP! In the meantime I'm working on salvaging my well-being after making some near-fatal mistakes of wasting time with people who would play games, refer to me as "brother," while I was alone all along. The love of God (and my role in being absolutely submissive to him) is another thing entirely. God's word has opened up to me and I believe that I do not suffer the sort of torment that church-goers are (typically) going through in so many ways--not a credit to me, but to God who sustains me. However, yes, I long for the gathering as Scripture taught it. I'm still hopeful that there may be a future for seeing more groups that are truly "set apart," especially as our surrounding culture is crumbling.
In my opinion since any congregation is filled with sinners you will never find a church that models the Biblical church exactly.  I take what the Bible says about this as a command without any escape clause and do my best to find a Biblical congregation to belong to.

"There's no such thing as the perfect church."

We'll see what the big boss thinks of that., just like we see what bosses think when they catch their employees drinking on the job who then say "there's no such thing as the perfect employee."

Sorry, but I'm too afraid of the boss enforcing what HE TOLD US TO DO as a gathering to join along with people in their defiant methods. God will judge, not me, but I heard God's orders and out of fear of him I'm not going to go along with folks who ignore what the boss ordered.

Offline Truthlady5

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #6 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 11:56:01 »
As I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, to be perfectly honest, I am afraid of being in the same boat as gatherings that ignore almost everything scripture says that a gathering should do. Remember how Jesus chewed out six out of the seven churches in Revelation? Do I want to be in the same boat as they?

When I see a church that is doing (or at least noticeably making an effort to do) what the Bible actually SAYS about what the gathering is really all about--most of which is covered between the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians--SIGN ME UP! In the meantime I'm working on salvaging my well-being after making some near-fatal mistakes of wasting time with people who would play games, refer to me as "brother," while I was alone all along. The love of God (and my role in being absolutely submissive to him) is another thing entirely. God's word has opened up to me and I believe that I do not suffer the sort of torment that church-goers are (typically) going through in so many ways--not a credit to me, but to God who sustains me. However, yes, I long for the gathering as Scripture taught it. I'm still hopeful that there may be a future for seeing more groups that are truly "set apart," especially as our surrounding culture is crumbling.
In my opinion since any congregation is filled with sinners you will never find a church that models the Biblical church exactly.  I take what the Bible says about this as a command without any escape clause and do my best to find a Biblical congregation to belong to.

"There's no such thing as the perfect church."

We'll see what the big boss thinks of that., just like we see what bosses think when they catch their employees drinking on the job who then say "there's no such thing as the perfect employee."

Sorry, but I'm too afraid of the boss enforcing what HE TOLD US TO DO as a gathering to join along with people in their defiant methods. God will judge, not me, but I heard God's orders and out of fear of him I'm not going to go along with folks who ignore what the boss ordered.

There are Bible based churches out there, they teach from the "Holy Scrritpure". So I believe a person can find a Church that teaches Truth if they ask God to lead them there.

Offline Vince

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #7 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 13:40:08 »
"There's no such thing as the perfect church."
We'll see what the big boss thinks of that., just like we see what bosses think when they catch their employees drinking on the job who then say "there's no such thing as the perfect employee."
You crack me up.  Are you a sinner?
Quote
Sorry, but I'm too afraid of the boss enforcing what HE TOLD US TO DO as a gathering to join along with people in their defiant methods. God will judge, not me, but I heard God's orders and out of fear of him I'm not going to go along with folks who ignore what the boss ordered.
Can you say you do everything the “Boss” ordered?

Offline Cally

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #8 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 15:21:00 »
"There's no such thing as the perfect church."
We'll see what the big boss thinks of that., just like we see what bosses think when they catch their employees drinking on the job who then say "there's no such thing as the perfect employee."
You crack me up.  Are you a sinner?
Quote
Sorry, but I'm too afraid of the boss enforcing what HE TOLD US TO DO as a gathering to join along with people in their defiant methods. God will judge, not me, but I heard God's orders and out of fear of him I'm not going to go along with folks who ignore what the boss ordered.
Can you say you do everything the “Boss” ordered?


It cracks you up that I take imperatives from scripture seriously? Feel free to laugh all you want. If I am convinced that there is something I have not done that the boss ordered, I do what I can see to fix it. As it says it James "whoever knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins"--a terribly obvious statement if you ask me, but apparently it must not be obvious to those who KNOW of the biblical models but choose not to follow them.

However, therein lies the irony of the whole "there's no perfect church" guilt trip--if the "nobody's perfect" axiom (whether it is or not is not the point) was the free pass for everything, it should just as easily be a free pass for someone deciding not to be perfect and not go to church. But like I said, that's not the point. I take the scripture seriously. I have not yet found a way to make a significant impact (positive, of course) on gatherings whose activities consist of sitting and doing virtually nothing, but if/when I do, there may be some sort of productivity in going. As it is, these gatherings, in my assessment, are a waste of time and are an offense to God's commands. Like I said, I'm not anybody's judge, but I know the boss's orders and I can't be party to their defiance.

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #9 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 16:17:38 »
As I work out my salvation with fear and trembling, to be perfectly honest, I am afraid of being in the same boat as gatherings that ignore almost everything scripture says that a gathering should do. Remember how Jesus chewed out six out of the seven churches in Revelation? Do I want to be in the same boat as they?

When I see a church that is doing (or at least noticeably making an effort to do) what the Bible actually SAYS about what the gathering is really all about--most of which is covered between the book of Acts and 1 Corinthians--SIGN ME UP! In the meantime I'm working on salvaging my well-being after making some near-fatal mistakes of wasting time with people who would play games, refer to me as "brother," while I was alone all along. The love of God (and my role in being absolutely submissive to him) is another thing entirely. God's word has opened up to me and I believe that I do not suffer the sort of torment that church-goers are (typically) going through in so many ways--not a credit to me, but to God who sustains me. However, yes, I long for the gathering as Scripture taught it. I'm still hopeful that there may be a future for seeing more groups that are truly "set apart," especially as our surrounding culture is crumbling.
In my opinion since any congregation is filled with sinners you will never find a church that models the Biblical church exactly.  I take what the Bible says about this as a command without any escape clause and do my best to find a Biblical congregation to belong to.

"There's no such thing as the perfect church."

We'll see what the big boss thinks of that., just like we see what bosses think when they catch their employees drinking on the job who then say "there's no such thing as the perfect employee."

Sorry, but I'm too afraid of the boss enforcing what HE TOLD US TO DO as a gathering to join along with people in their defiant methods. God will judge, not me, but I heard God's orders and out of fear of him I'm not going to go along with folks who ignore what the boss ordered.

There are Bible based churches out there, they teach from the "Holy Scrritpure". So I believe a person can find a Church that teaches Truth if they ask God to lead them there.

That is true, Truthlady! We have far too many people who neglect to ask the Lord to take them to a church of His choosing, which would suit them perfectly, and they neglect to wait on His leading in that area, and so shut Him out of the process and choose rather to do their own thing, as if there is a substitute.

God commands us to NOT forsake assembling together. He didn't mean we could substitute a meeting of a few in a coffee shop, either. He appoints specific people to lead and to serve the fellowship, and we need to take it seriously---for not only our own edification, but for others'. There are far too many navel-gazers out there who think being a part of something bigger, like a local church fellowship is all about how it serves them, and not about how God wants to use the abilities He has given them to serve the body of Christ.

Offline Vince

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #10 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 16:37:15 »
It cracks you up that I take imperatives from scripture seriously? Feel free to laugh all you want.
  I apologize for that comment.  I did not mean it like it sounds when you read it.

Quote
I take the scripture seriously. I have not yet found a way to make a significant impact (positive, of course) on gatherings whose activities consist of sitting and doing virtually nothing, but if/when I do, there may be some sort of productivity in going. As it is, these gatherings, in my assessment, are a waste of time and are an offense to God's commands. Like I said, I'm not anybody's judge, but I know the boss's orders and I can't be party to their defiance.
The purpose of going to a church is not for you to make a significant impact or to be productive in the way I think you are using the word.   

Ro 12:5 says we as believers are one body and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:14-23
Quote
"Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
 
The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor."

This seem clear that even though all Christians are not the same we are still all one body and no one person can stand alone.

One more verse
Luke 4:14-16
 
Quote
Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him. He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.

Jesus went regularly.
 

Offline Cally

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #11 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 16:59:03 »
It cracks you up that I take imperatives from scripture seriously? Feel free to laugh all you want.
  I apologize for that comment.  I did not mean it like it sounds when you read it.

Quote
I take the scripture seriously. I have not yet found a way to make a significant impact (positive, of course) on gatherings whose activities consist of sitting and doing virtually nothing, but if/when I do, there may be some sort of productivity in going. As it is, these gatherings, in my assessment, are a waste of time and are an offense to God's commands. Like I said, I'm not anybody's judge, but I know the boss's orders and I can't be party to their defiance.
The purpose of going to a church is not for you to make a significant impact or to be productive in the way I think you are using the word.   

Ro 12:5 says we as believers are one body and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:14-23
Quote
"Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
 
The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor."

This seem clear that even though all Christians are not the same we are still all one body and no one person can stand alone.

One more verse
Luke 4:14-16
 
Quote
Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him. He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom.

Jesus went regularly.
 


I'm so glad you brought up the body of Christ and its diverse parts, because somehow it is the church gatherings in which it is indiscernible how the body parts ARE diverse when the activity of ALMOST every single member is that which makes a body immobilized by morbid-obesity: nothing.

It is not my experience that the body of Christ takes care of itself any better than ordinary acquaintances, friends, and family take care of each other--that's a big deal, but I'll leave it at that.

That weekly rigmarole is unacceptable. And I know most people have their ways of drawing lines as to what is "unacceptible," like perhaps a couple of unmarried church members "shacking up" or the like. The condition of "the church" (if you can even call it that) right now needs to trigger the code red emergency alarm, but it doesn't, as it's mostly a tradition that good little boys and girls do--the Pharisees had their traditions, and this is the same kind of thing, different day.

It bears repeating: I'm nobody's judge and have no illusions to the contrary. Some people, I fear, may find "safety in numbers" when it comes to God's judgment, but I don't; I don't care how many people think the church routine is perfectly fine as it is or hide behind the "nobody's perfect" cop-out--I'll be staying out of the blast radius of what I'm fully expecting will set off the big boss in a big way. They've been told, and many such "there's no perfect church" spiels let on that they even know better. I expect God doesn't tolerate mockery of his imperatives and that's going to have consequences.

Yes, Jesus taught at the synagogues, and I'm sure that was the best thing those synagogues ever had going for them.

Offline Red Baker

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #12 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 17:14:16 »

The bible speaks of not failing to assemble ourself together with other believers. Why is it that some Christians think they do not need a Church to go to in order to serve the Lord? I know we can not answer for how every Christian thinks on things but is it really Ok for Christians to not go to church but maybe go to group home meetings or study online? This is just something I would like Your  thoughts on. Scripture would also be appreciated for reference.

Greetings Truthlady,

I can only speak for myself, not others.  I have been to many churches over the years, and have decided to leave them all.  Does this mean that every person involved in a outward church are all wrong?  No, I am not saying that.   But what I can testify is this: I personally have not found a group of believers that practice NT worship.  Mainly, the person in the pulpit is the problem.  I believe there are some godly and sincere believers scattered throughout the outward churches of this world~only it is hard to find them.  But not only that, they have been bewitched by the person behind the pulpit~same as to Galatians 3. 

The method of worship in these churches is against the scriptures.  1 Cor. 14

No where in the NT is any of the epistles written to a single "pastor" over a particular group of believers.

There many other reasons, why I have withdrawn from today's churches.

The main reason: the abomination of desolation are standing where they OUGHT NOT to stand!  The Man of sin is reigning within most churches, so God's command to me is clear cut: FLEE! Matthew 24:16; 2 Timothy 3:5; 1 Timothy 6:5

I have much more to say on this subject, but must run.

RB


Offline Cally

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #13 on: Fri Mar 01, 2013 - 19:23:56 »
I mostly concur with Red Baker as to my experience. I don't know if I put all the blame on the pastors. I think we've all heard horror stories--with some close to us--regarding the awful stress some of these individuals experience, and it's unfortunate that they foolishly choose to take on more than one man was ever meant to take on singlehandedly. Realistically, the whole job can't be done by one person, and I've never seen or heard of it getting done by a singular individual.

Offline Truthlady5

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Re: Church attendance
« Reply #14 on: Sat Mar 02, 2013 - 15:13:58 »

The bible speaks of not failing to assemble ourself together with other believers. Why is it that some Christians think they do not need a Church to go to in order to serve the Lord? I know we can not answer for how every Christian thinks on things but is it really Ok for Christians to not go to church but maybe go to group home meetings or study online? This is just something I would like Your  thoughts on. Scripture would also be appreciated for reference.

Greetings Truthlady,

I can only speak for myself, not others.  I have been to many churches over the years, and have decided to leave them all.  Does this mean that every person involved in a outward church are all wrong?  No, I am not saying that.   But what I can testify is this: I personally have not found a group of believers that practice NT worship.  Mainly, the person in the pulpit is the problem.  I believe there are some godly and sincere believers scattered throughout the outward churches of this world~only it is hard to find them.  But not only that, they have been bewitched by the person behind the pulpit~same as to Galatians 3. 

The method of worship in these churches is against the scriptures.  1 Cor. 14

No where in the NT is any of the epistles written to a single "pastor" over a particular group of believers.

There many other reasons, why I have withdrawn from today's churches.

The main reason: the abomination of desolation are standing where they OUGHT NOT to stand!  The Man of sin is reigning within most churches, so God's command to me is clear cut: FLEE! Matthew 24:16; 2 Timothy 3:5; 1 Timothy 6:5

I have much more to say on this subject, but must run.

RB

I believe there are Pastors that preach the truth from Scripture.  I know there are many false Preachers out there also.  I have no problem with the Pastors teaching where I have been to two different churches, it is just that I see the Order of services different so, And I believe that the order of service is set up by the Pastor or the church boards.  I would not go to a church where a Pastor does not teach the truth from Scripture because I know the difference.  I just have heard many people post on interent in blogs that they dont go to a church building because they don't believe in Organized religion.  And, I wondered who all had comments about this on this Site concerning this topic. 

Maybe you can add more on what you were talking about here, as Well.

Thanks ::angel::

 

     
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