Author Topic: Forsaken me ?  (Read 1897 times)

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Offline grams

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Forsaken me ?
« on: Sat Apr 13, 2013 - 15:57:03 »
Mat_27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jesus knew what God had told Him what to do !  So what does that mean?

Offline Amo

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Apr 13, 2013 - 17:14:34 »
Mat_27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jesus knew what God had told Him what to do !  So what does that mean?

It means that He paid the penalty for our sins, which is to be forsaken of God. Those who are forsaken of God will die the second death, for they will have rejected Him alone who hath immortality, and who promises the same to all the saved.

13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Tim 6:13-16 (KJV)

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:14-17 (KJV)

6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Rev 21:6-8 (KJV)

HRoberson

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Apr 13, 2013 - 18:30:16 »
Mat_27:46  And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jesus knew what God had told Him what to do !  So what does that mean?
Jesus says a number of things on the cross. Some seem to speak from his divinity, and others from his humanity. This passage is from his humanity and is a quote from Psalm 22. It depicts the loneliness and the powerlessness his body feels with his enemies around him.

It does not mean that God actually forsook him, assuming our understanding of God is correct. God is one, and it would be impossible for God to have split himself so as to create an object that could have been forsaken. In fact, the psalm itself includes trust and trust- based faith that God has in fact not forsaken the psalmist.
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 13, 2013 - 19:18:57 by HRoberson »

Offline Amo

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #3 on: Sat Apr 13, 2013 - 18:56:03 »
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Heb 2:1-18 (KJV)

No human being save Christ alone has truly tasted death yet. Only Christ was forsaken of God when He took the sins of the world upon Himself. Only the lost will experience what it is like to die the second death, being truly forsaken of God. The saved have accepted the offer of their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, thus they pick up their cross and follow Him. Dying to this world in Him by faith, they will not face the second death apart from Him and the Father.

3  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:2-14 (KJV)

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Romans 8:1-14 (KJV)

Offline grams

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Apr 14, 2013 - 05:31:32 »
I asked our  ex-daughter in law this question , years ago.  Her Dad was a preacher.   So I figured she should know ?
She told me it was just for man to see what Jesus had to go through for us.
And this has been bothering me since.

Because Jesus know what was going to happen.  What God expected of Him.
We all know we could not save ourself !   
No man could go through all of that !

Offline Amo

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Apr 14, 2013 - 09:03:17 »
Quote
I asked our  ex-daughter in law this question , years ago.  Her Dad was a preacher.   So I figured she should know ?
She told me it was just for man to see what Jesus had to go through for us.
And this has been bothering me since.

Because Jesus know what was going to happen.  What God expected of Him.
We all know we could not save ourself !   
No man could go through all of that !

Yes, only God Himself could save us. Only He could lay down His life, and take it back again. Thus He united with humanity, that He might lay down our lives, that He might take them back again. Now we can do the same by faith and in Him, and be saved from the penalty of sin, which is death.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. John 10:14-18 (KJV)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Heb 10:4-10 (KJV)

3  Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Romans 6:3-7 (KJV)

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim 3:16 (KJV)

PRAISE GOD!

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Apr 14, 2013 - 09:16:35 »
I asked our  ex-daughter in law this question , years ago.  Her Dad was a preacher.   So I figured she should know ?
She told me it was just for man to see what Jesus had to go through for us.
And this has been bothering me since.

Because Jesus know what was going to happen.  What God expected of Him.
We all know we could not save ourself !   
No man could go through all of that !


He knew what was coming, but I imagine when the weight of the sins of the world were upon Him, it must have been so overwhelming!

I remember hearing someone say that Christ cried out "Why have You forsaken Me?!"
So that we would never have to.

That really resonated with my heart.  Christ bore my sin, it was so heavy, and ugly that God could not look upon Him and fellowship with Him in the way they had been...and I will never ever have to know the horror of that, because of what Christ was willing to do for me on that cross.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #7 on: Thu May 30, 2013 - 12:04:33 »
It does not mean that God actually forsook him, assuming our understanding of God is correct. God is one, and it would be impossible for God to have split himself so as to create an object that could have been forsaken.

With God nothing is impossible.

So the peshat is that God was split for a short time.

peshat = plain meaning of the text.

HRoberson

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 30, 2013 - 23:02:06 »
It does not mean that God actually forsook him, assuming our understanding of God is correct. God is one, and it would be impossible for God to have split himself so as to create an object that could have been forsaken.

With God nothing is impossible.

So the peshat is that God was split for a short time.

peshat = plain meaning of the text.
I don't think it's all that plain, actually.

HRoberson

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Re: Forsaken me ?
« Reply #9 on: Thu May 30, 2013 - 23:34:40 »
I don't believe it's a given that the author of Psalm 22 was actually forsaken by God.