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Author Topic: I did not lie  (Read 7079 times)

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Offline LightHammer

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2011, 02:14:25 PM »
I'll hope that you care to understand what I have to say and proceed.

The Communion of the Saints is completely Scriptural. (Verses soon to follow. I am at the BMV helping my little brother and his friend get their permits).

However the practice of praying to the saints in Heaven is not found in Scripture. The connection between those in Christ who are Triumphant in Heaven and Militant on Earth is in fact Scriptural. The saints in Heaven are both aware of our struggles here on Earth and eagered to see the completed work of God's plan.


Please allot me about 45 min to get home and provide the verses that I believe support my position.

Thanks for waiting.

First off I'll use

1 Corinthians 12:12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

 13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 14For the body is not one member, but many.

 15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

 16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

 17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

 18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

 19And if they were all one member, where were the body?

 20But now are they many members, yet but one body.

 21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

 22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

 23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

 24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

 25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

 26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

 27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

 28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

 29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

 30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 03:47:42 PM by LightHammer »
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2011, 02:14:25 PM »

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2011, 02:37:11 PM »
Quote Lighthammer from other thread: 

" I'm not an expert so I will share only what I know. To be a canonized saint the candidate must have two miracles accreditted to their intercessory prayer. By intercessory prayer we mean a saint on earth asks a saint in heaven to pray for them. When the saint in heaven prays for the siant on earth, the petition ascneds the Throne of God where the Father sits at the center and the Son at the Right Hand of Power. The petition comes to the Son and as our High Priest and One Mediator, the Son presents it to the Father. If the Father approves the miracles is carried out."
____________________________________________ ____________________________________________ _________________________________

You prefer man's (manmade) doctrines of the CC over God and God's very Word.

Show me in God's Word where what you have stated above is, please and thank you.

Blessings



Do you honestly even care what I present? When I debate protestants I genuinely am interested in understanding their positions and when we reach that understanding its pretty cool. However I have met only like two protestants on this site who actually cared about understanding my position. The most of you just want to shout about how false it is.


You evaded the question.

I have said to you, more than once, that you prefer the doctrines (manmade) of the CC over God's very Word.  

The Catholic Church is not man made, unlike all protestant denominations, which are  man made.

Of course it is.

Not in your mindset though, because you trust in their teachings.

Blessings
Rom. 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2011, 02:37:11 PM »

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2011, 02:47:55 PM »
Wrong:
18 And I tell you that you are cephas, and on this cephas I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.


Wrong again Chester.......

Offline Kindle

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2011, 03:22:51 PM »
Ouch! Rough thread.

 
Where I'm from, there is a saying.. a self-appraisal of the culture.. "If you don't like the church you're attending, then go start your own."  It's pretty much what we do. And there is no end to the arguments and accusations between members of the diverse protestant churches. It's in our little local newspaper and Christian radio stations as well.. ministers are all too often going after one another; saying that theirs' is the only church that is teaching "the Bible."  Talk to members of different congregations,  you'll find the underlying sentiment that only the members of their little church are not "in danger of hellfire".  

I'm not taking sides here.  I've no understanding of the different dogmas.  I'm just now learning the varying concepts within the protestant churches.  I have to wonder what is the cause of all the dissention.  It's just too much!

From a recent conversation with a member of the church my father had attended.. he had been lauding his church's righteousness.

Me: "I understand you'uns have communion every week."
Him: "Yes. The Bible says.. "'As oft as ye do this..'  "That means you're supposed to do it often."
He must have seen the look on my face.. he got flusted for a second and then continued.
"It was their habbit then to come together the same day every week to break bread."
Me: "Ah! I didn't know that.  Okay. I can understand why you do that then."  

What I'm saying is there probably isn't a single church that does not add to what scripture has given, or hold that they have some special status of enlightenment.  
It all has to do with a human sinful nature, based on either fear or pride perhaps. I don't know.  But it has to be carnal, and not of the Spirt. Otherwise we would not be in this mess. ::frown::

There's a great many of us who've had to wash the muck off our feet from where we'd been treading, in order to enter God's presence. 
The church, no matter how wonderful it may be, will not save you. Christ does that.

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2011, 03:22:51 PM »

Offline grams

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2011, 03:29:10 PM »
Quote
      The Catholic Church is the only place on this planet that uphols God's Word in its entirety. The only place. Let me make sure I over emphasize the only place on the planet. Protestants with their thousands of different "bible-truths" want to paint this picture of Catholicism that separates it from her creator Jesus Christ.

Its not that hard to grasp. Its what has to happen for protestantism to have any validity. The original Christian Church has to be proclaimed apostate in order to make reformation theology look like it is the solution to the problem, even if that problem does not truly exist.

I harbor no ill will torwards grams. She's not that important to think negatively of. I wonder easily take a bullet for as I would anyother. However its not my style or my upbringing to be gentle, I don't mean to be rude nearly as moften as people take it like that. I am just very direct and relentless in the face of what I percieve as dishonesty.  
 
  
  

I think Not !   I belong to a bible church no religion just studying our bible.
Our Tom [ who does not like being called Pastor]  Tells the people
"Don't believe me look it up in the bible "
When ever new people come into our church, he also  tells them of the collection
He will say..   Look us over before you donate to the church.  We want you to
know were the money is going first !

Quote
   I harbor no ill will torwards grams. She's not that important    

Thanks........

And you still do not believe what happened to me  and others at the church ?

   Let me ask you how would you like getting whacked with a ruler or yard stick ?  
The street in front of our church at first was rocks.
Would you believe that we had to kneel down  and move as walking to go to the chapel across the street from it in the month of May.   For saint Mary !
Tell me  , how would you behave after going through some of this stuff.
Would you not believe and do as told ?  Would that not make you feel they were right?
 You did as they said no questions.   If that is all you know, then you believe every one and every thing is this way !  
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

:longitude: EXPOSURE TO THE SON MAY PREVENT BURNING:   

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2011, 03:29:10 PM »



Offline LightHammer

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2011, 04:01:42 PM »
Quote
I think Not !   I belong to a bible church no religion just studying our bible.
Our Tom [ who does not like being called Pastor]  Tells the people
"Don't believe me look it up in the bible "
When ever new people come into our church, he also  tells them of the collection
He will say..   Look us over before you donate to the church.  We want you to
know were the money is going first !


Please spare me. I know "Bible Truths" in protestantism vary on what protestants want them to be.

Quote
Thanks........

And you still do not believe what happened to me  and others at the church ?

   Let me ask you how would you like getting whacked with a ruler or yard stick ? 
The street in front of our church at first was rocks.
Would you believe that we had to kneel down  and move as walking to go to the chapel across the street from it in the month of May.   For saint Mary !
Tell me  , how would you behave after going through some of this stuff.
Would you not believe and do as told ?  Would that not make you feel they were right?
 You did as they said no questions.   If that is all you know, then you believe every one and every thing is this way ! 


Grams I never never never never never never never never never never.....never said I didn't believe you. As I matter of fact I never even addressed your testimony. I simply wanted to tell you that what you were taught and what you been through was not in accordance with the uniformed teachings of the Catholic Church. That's al. That's all. That's all. That's all.

I told you about three times that I don't care about whether or not what you said was true. I only only only only only only only only ever wanted to show you that the Catholic Church is not a bad place and show you want we truly believe.

Thats it.

No body is attacking you or saying you're a liar. I don't care about that stuff. You are plagued with those painful experiences and I wanted to help alleviate that by showing you that those experiences do not constitute my Church and that you could have freedom in Christ as a Catholic as well.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline grams

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2011, 07:28:48 PM »
Hello  LightHammer

I think before this gets closed down again   I will add to it since I started it !
With out being  a  ::pondering::   ::idea::   ::shrug::        ---  ???
OK, fine now tell me how many pictures of   of God and Jesus and saints,  does your church have ?

Does not the bible say not to do that.

Do you still use the rosary ?
Does the bible tell you not to  repeat ?

Why do you bow and kneel to the Alter ?

Why do you bless yourself coming into church ?
How does man make the water holey  ?

And again about the Pope ?    Man cant make him any better then we are !
Only God can do that !

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

:longitude: EXPOSURE TO THE SON MAY PREVENT BURNING:   

Offline LightHammer

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2011, 07:37:08 PM »
You want to discuss Catholicism then buck up the courage and go back to the Catholic Forum. However know that if you wish to deal with me, your sob story won't serve as a valid justification for refusing to understanding my Faith.

Relay that message to your friends.


See you in the War Room.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline Joyfullee

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2011, 07:53:21 PM »
You want to discuss Catholicism then buck up the courage and go back to the Catholic Forum. However know that if you wish to deal with me, your sob story won't serve as a valid justification for refusing to understanding my Faith.

Relay that message to your friends.


See you in the War Room.

Why did you evade and distract from every single one of her questions???

Blessings
Rom. 8:14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2011, 08:58:57 PM »
Its rather a lot of doctrine to address with depth. Grams has a track record with misunderstanding my posts. She addressed me and I will deal with her how I see fit and that is not crumbling doctrines and beliefs of a complex theological position into a crash course which I am positive she will not understand and misrepresent.

I will explain everyone in detail in the Catholic Forum. What I will not do is subjugate my reason and methods to those who hold no genuine desire to understand Catholicism anyway. I told you to stop addressing me if all you had to say to me was stuff of this nature.
"For they needs must seek some support,  since they have fallen from the foundation of the Apostles and have no settled mind of their own, and if they can find none, then they malign the fathers. But no one will believe them any more even if they make efforts to libel them, for their heresy is condemned on all hands." St. Athanasius of Alexandria

Offline chestertonrules

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2011, 09:17:45 PM »
Hello  LightHammer

I think before this gets closed down again   I will add to it since I started it !
With out being  a  ::pondering::   ::idea::   ::shrug::        ---  ???
OK, fine now tell me how many pictures of   of God and Jesus and saints,  does your church have ?

Does not the bible say not to do that.

Do you still use the rosary ?
Does the bible tell you not to  repeat ?

Why do you bow and kneel to the Alter ?

Why do you bless yourself coming into church ?
How does man make the water holey  ?

And again about the Pope ?    Man cant make him any better then we are !
Only God can do that !



The bible does not forbid the use of images.  In fact, the Ark of the Covenant included Cherubs and God commanded the creation of the bronze serpent.  God forbids worshipping anything other than himself.  Catholics worship God alone.

Jesus tells us to pray like the persistent widow who pestered the judge until she got her way.   Jesus wants us to avoid vain repetition, not holy repetition.

We kneel at the altar to pay respect to the sacrifice of Jesus.

We cross ourselves with holy water to remind us of our baptismal vows.

Jesus created the papacy, but the pope is a sinner just like all other men.  The popes role as successor of Peter was ordained by Christ and it is the source of Christian unity.  Jesus only started one Church.

Upon this Rock

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2011, 09:34:05 PM »




I will explain everyone in detail in the Catholic Forum. What I will not do is subjugate my reason and methods to those who hold no genuine desire to understand Catholicism anyway. I told you to stop addressing me if all you had to say to me was stuff of this nature. Can't you look at me and see how upsetting this is!

I'm telling mother!


Offline Lively Stone

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2011, 09:34:36 PM »
  Please let me add this !

I know the Catholic Church has now changed !   My point now is , if you had not lived this you have no idea what I went through .
Theydid not  use the bible.   In my time there were no bibles !  Even the one the priest had at the alter was not a bible.  It was a giant prayer book !

OK !  I went to grade school in the 1940's !   Were you even alive then ?

The only thing the nuns did for us is when we made our first holy communion that we knew how to confess our sins, using the proper words !
What child want to tell his sins ?  To another human being.
If confessing your sins was the saving,  I sure flunked out !   I was not going to tell a man what I did in secret.  What most children do growing up .

My oldest child receives his first communion on Sunday.  He had his first confession in January.  Since then he has ASKED me to bring him to confession 4 or 5 times.  He loves it, and he loves to live in the light.

Who would not want to confess their sins?  People pay thousands of dollars to psychologists to get sins off of their minds.  There have been random secular apps that have appeared in the world today where people confess their sins to the world.

Confession, apart from Eucharist, is the greatest sacrament for the human soul and psyche.  I absolutely love it, and frankly I don't know how ex-Catholics get by without it.


Christians only need Jesus to confess to.

Offline Lively Stone

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2011, 09:42:12 PM »
Joyfulle,

Judging me based off of one comment in a conversation that transcends this thread is not only foolish but judging by your discernment, or rather lack thereof, but very dangerous.

You don't know who I am or what you're talking about so apart from commenting on grams' testimony you really shouldn't address me if that's all you have to say.  

Your lack of love, compassion, understanding is evident, in more than one statement to grams.  Love one another is what God's Word tells us.

Your defense is of the CC, not God's Word.  God is no respecter of persons.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Blessings

The Catholic Church is the only place on this planet that uphols God's Word in its entirety. The only place. Let me make sure I over emphasize the only place on the planet. Protestants with their thousands of different "bible-truths" want to paint this picture of Catholicism that separates it from her creator Jesus Christ.

Its not that hard to grasp. Its what has to happen for protestantism to have any validity. The original Christian Church has to be proclaimed apostate in order to make reformation theology look like it is the solution to the problem, even if that problem does not truly exist.

For all your cries of, "Liar, liar!", I must declare Comment deleted now about your own religion. The RCC waters down and negates much of the word by its Traditions which run contrary to what God tells us.
 

« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:31:29 AM by larry2 »

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Re: I did not lie
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2011, 09:49:27 PM »
Hello  LightHammer

I think before this gets closed down again   I will add to it since I started it !
With out being  a  ::pondering::   ::idea::   ::shrug::        ---  ???
OK, fine now tell me how many pictures of   of God and Jesus and saints,  does your church have ?

Does not the bible say not to do that.

Do you still use the rosary ?
Does the bible tell you not to  repeat ?

Why do you bow and kneel to the Alter ?

Why do you bless yourself coming into church ?
How does man make the water holey  ?

And again about the Pope ?    Man cant make him any better then we are !
Only God can do that !



Hi grams, spoken like a true Christian, God bless you always.
On Christ the Solid Rock I stand all others are sinking sand.