Author Topic: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid  (Read 2140 times)

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Offline Debrah

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Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« on: Sun Mar 03, 2013 - 20:34:15 »
 ::amen!::

Popular Pastor Rick Warren said any organization that sees evangelism as a priority should not take government money.

The pastor of Saddleback Community Church in California told Washington reporters he's refused millions the Obama and Bush administrations offered in support of his ministry's global relief efforts.

Warren said he turned down the money because he won't let aid restrictions stop him from telling people about Jesus Christ.

He also pointed out many foreign countries now reject U.S. aid that's conditional on their acceptance of abortion or gay rights.

Warren said officials in dozens of countries have told him their values aren't for sale.





http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/February/Rick-Warren-Ministries-Should-Refuse-Govt-Aid

p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #1 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 07:25:22 »
 ::headscratch::

Church................................State

 ::pondering::

Why would the Gov'mnt be doing any of this anyhoo?  We can't put up a simple tree, but they can buy their way into our pratice of our faith?

 ::shrug::

Warren (who I am no big fan of) is right NOT to take funds from the Government, or any other organization for that matter, IF the funds COME with strings attached...........which they usually do.


Offline Debrah

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #2 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 08:01:08 »
Why do people not like Rick Warren?

Offline DaveW

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #3 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 08:34:26 »
Quote
Why would the Gov'mnt be doing any of this anyhoo?  We can't put up a simple tree, but they can buy their way into our pratice of our faith?

2nd rule of being in power: Extend your power as much as possible.

p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #4 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 09:14:29 »
Why do people not like Rick Warren?

Sister, if you are asking me, I suggest you google Warren's TV interview on the Larry King show he did when on his promotion tour for his first book.............A Purpose Driven Life.

If you can't find it, let me know, and I will give you the highlights that turned me off to him.


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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #4 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 09:14:29 »



p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #5 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 09:15:11 »
Quote
Why would the Gov'mnt be doing any of this anyhoo?  We can't put up a simple tree, but they can buy their way into our pratice of our faith?

2nd rule of being in power: Extend your power as much as possible.


.....and without regard for the Constitution.....


Offline DaveW

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #6 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 09:35:00 »
.....and without regard for the Constitution.....
The Constitution is incidental to the point.  You extend your power whether you are a kindergarten playground bully or a Joseph Stalin.

(BTW the first rule is "Stay in power.")

Victor08

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #7 on: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 11:55:11 »
Why do people not like Rick Warren?


Sister, if you are asking me, I suggest you google Warren's TV interview on the Larry King show he did when on his promotion tour for his first book.............A Purpose Driven Life.

If you can't find it, let me know, and I will give you the highlights that turned me off to him.

Larry King Live: Pastor Rick Warren - Part 1 --- April 6, 2009 Small | Large
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 07, 2013 - 12:01:36 by Victor08 »

p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #8 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 06:10:11 »
Thanks for the video Vic, but that isn't the one I was referring to...........I was speaking of his very first appearance on Larry King during his promotion tour of "A Purpose Driven Life."  The interview was some years ago.  Still, this interview was interesting.................and a wee bit troubling because whenever he is on Larry King, it seems King manages to focus on homosexuality vs. Christianity or God.

In the initial interview I am referring to, Larry King called, or speculated that God was homosexual, and Warren just sat there smiling with no response.  King was asking him if God was a man or a woman, and Warren got into that "well, we were created in His image........" at which time King said......(as best I can recall) "Well is God both man and woman?"  And Warren replied with some mumbling response about being created in His image again.  Then King says....."well is he homosexual?  Sounds like homosexual to me."  Warren just sat there and did not challenge King for that statement............and for a man who professes to not only be a Christian, but a Minister, Pastor, Preacher, and Leader of a Church to allow such a thing to occur is beyone understanding or acceptance in my opinion.

As well, for Warren to not understand HOW we are created in God's image is beyond belief since he proclaims himself to be such a Leader of Christians.

I have little use for Rick Warren..............he simply seems to me to be another "feel good" promoter.


notreligus

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #9 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 08:05:43 »
Churches that are registered as 501C3 corporations, which would be the vast majority, are supported by the government indirectly by not having to pay taxes on income.  Many pastors and others in leadership positions take advantage of tax laws and are listed as officers of boards of directors of these churches, and they act as owners of the property while the members of the congregations donate offerings to pay for the properties.  Pastors also get tax breaks on homes and automobiles, plus they are taxed on personal income at different rates.  The last time I looked at my state's secretary of state web site I found that one local pastor owns thirteen different companies, including a funeral home, a cemetary, a for-profit TV station, a for-profit radio station, the property of two large local church campuses, vehicles, a school, apartments, a bookstore, a retail coffee franchise in one of the church buildings, and such, and all are under the umbrella of the church.  Thanks be to God that most are not like this man.  I believe that the majority of small congregations exist like most Americans - week to week.  They're not building their kingdoms on this earth right now. 

Off the soapbox.

notreligus

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #10 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 08:14:14 »
Why do people not like Rick Warren?

He is considered by many to be too ecumenical or too inclusive.

I witnessed this at another discussion board after Rick Warren was photographed on stage with Chuck Smith and Greg Laurie.  Members of Calvary Chapel started to rip their own, namely Chuck Smith, for being present with Rick Warren at an evangelistic event. 

I understand what Rick is doing.  He's using the old "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar" approach but he has at times crossed the line when it comes to Islam by trying to find commonality with Christians and Muslims.  This was done before with a book called The True Furqan.  Look it up.  It is said to be a blend of the best of the Koran and the best of the Bible.  I recall Paul and Jan Crouch promoting this on TBN one time and they were distributing this book in the Middle East.  That was all about their getting approval from Middle Easterners so they could open more TV stations. 

The commonality that needs to be promoted is the fact that Christ died for the benefit of the whole world that whosoever might be saved. 

p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #11 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 08:22:59 »
Churches that are registered as 501C3 corporations, which would be the vast majority, are supported by the government indirectly by not having to pay taxes on income.  Many pastors and others in leadership positions take advantage of tax laws and are listed as officers of boards of directors of these churches, and they act as owners of the property while the members of the congregations donate offerings to pay for the properties.  Pastors also get tax breaks on homes and automobiles, plus they are taxed on personal income at different rates.  The last time I looked at my state's secretary of state web site I found that one local pastor owns thirteen different companies, including a funeral home, a cemetery, a for-profit TV station, a for-profit radio station, the property of two large local church campuses, vehicles, a school, apartments, a bookstore, a retail coffee franchise in one of the church buildings, and such, and all are under the umbrella of the church.  Thanks be to God that most are not like this man.  I believe that the majority of small congregations exist like most Americans - week to week.  They're not building their kingdoms on this earth right now. 

Off the soapbox.

Sidebar:  I like your SN, I'm not very religious either............now, as for the comment.....I agree that there are churches/Pastors (possibly many, can't say that for truth) who take advantage of the "system."  They advance themselves and not the Kingdom........I agree with that.  Now my church and my Pastor do not do this, nor do any of the Churches of God Anderson, In. that I am aware of.......

The Church owns the Property, it is in the name of the Church, not the Pastor.  Pastors have no such control in our church.........and Pastors must pay all appropriate taxes on the financial compensation they receive as Pastor.  It is true that they receive compensation to cover housing and auto expense, but this is in no way "exclusive" to Pastors.........it is common practice in the business world is it not?  Pastors in my church are definitely NOT voting members of the Board of Directors.  While they do attend Board meetings, which they should, because their input is both valuable and necessary for the Board to consider, they cannot ORDER the Board to do anything.........nor do they have a vote on any business decision that concerns the Church. As for being taxed at different rates, you must be speaking of State Taxes?  My Pastor pays the same rate of taxes to the Federal Government as do any person within the same Income Bracket.

 ::tippinghat::

p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #12 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 08:26:19 »
.....and without regard for the Constitution.....
The Constitution is incidental to the point.  You extend your power whether you are a kindergarten playground bully or a Joseph Stalin.

(BTW the first rule is "Stay in power.")

The Constitution isn't incidental for me............for quite a lot of what our Federal Goverment does in in direct contrast to the Constitution in my opinion........and "extending their power" is at the top of the list of Constitutional violations.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #13 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 08:33:54 »
The Constitution isn't incidental for me............for quite a lot of what our Federal Government does in in direct contrast to the Constitution in my opinion........and "extending their power" is at the top of the list of Constitutional violations.

But people were extending power from the days of Cain killing his brother. That had nothing to do with the US constitution.

Has not every king and emperor since the Flood tried to extend his own power as much as possible? Thousands of years before the constitution was written?  That is why the constitution is incidental; this tendency is pretty much universal.

p.rehbein

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #14 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 11:30:58 »
The thread was speaking of the United States was it not?  That was my understanding........if I was wrong, then my bad.........however, if the thread is about the United States, then in my opinion, the Constitution should certainly be a part of the discussion

 ::tippinghat::

Victor08

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #15 on: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 12:16:55 »
Thanks for the video Vic, but that isn't the one I was referring to...........I was speaking of his very first appearance on Larry King during his promotion tour of "A Purpose Driven Life."  The interview was some years ago.  Still, this interview was interesting.................and a wee bit troubling because whenever he is on Larry King, it seems King manages to focus on homosexuality vs. Christianity or God.

In the initial interview I am referring to, Larry King called, or speculated that God was homosexual, and Warren just sat there smiling with no response.  King was asking him if God was a man or a woman, and Warren got into that "well, we were created in His image........" at which time King said......(as best I can recall) "Well is God both man and woman?"  And Warren replied with some mumbling response about being created in His image again.  Then King says....."well is he homosexual?  Sounds like homosexual to me."  Warren just sat there and did not challenge King for that statement............and for a man who professes to not only be a Christian, but a Minister, Pastor, Preacher, and Leader of a Church to allow such a thing to occur is beyone understanding or acceptance in my opinion.


In this transcript King asks Warren if God is male.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/02/lkl.01.html
CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Interview With Rick Warren

Aired December 2, 2005 - 21:00   ET
.
.
.
KING: Why hasn't he come back?

WARREN: The Bible says Jesus Christ does not come back because he's being patient. That he is being patient--he wants everybody to have a chance to hear the good news and respond.

You know, God could have made us all puppets. You know, we'd all just be like marionettes and we pray six times a day and we all do the right thing, but that's not real love. You can only love if you have the choice not to love.

KING: Is God a he?

WARREN: I believe he is.

KING: A he? Male.

WARREN: Well, the Bible says that God refers to God as a he, so I'm going to refer to God as a he. That is what he chose, but he is clearly more than just a he because the Bible says he made man male and female in his image.

So they are male attributes of God and there are female attributes of God.

KING: Sounds homosexual. Sorry for bringing it up.

WARREN: No, I'm not going down that path.

KING: Wouldn't that be a story?

WARREN: No, no, not going down that path.

KING: We'll be back with more calls for Rick Warren. Don't go away.
« Last Edit: Fri Mar 08, 2013 - 12:21:15 by Victor08 »

Offline avenger

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #16 on: Sat Mar 09, 2013 - 12:17:45 »
::amen!::

Popular Pastor Rick Warren said any organization that sees evangelism as a priority should not take government money.

The pastor of Saddleback Community Church in California told Washington reporters he's refused millions the Obama and Bush administrations offered in support of his ministry's global relief efforts.

Warren said he turned down the money because he won't let aid restrictions stop him from telling people about Jesus Christ.

He also pointed out many foreign countries now reject U.S. aid that's conditional on their acceptance of abortion or gay rights.

Warren said officials in dozens of countries have told him their values aren't for sale.





http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/February/Rick-Warren-Ministries-Should-Refuse-Govt-Aid



Mr. Warren is correct.

k-pappy

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #17 on: Sun Mar 10, 2013 - 01:29:00 »
::amen!::

Popular Pastor Rick Warren said any organization that sees evangelism as a priority should not take government money.


I agree with him on this.  Government money always comes with strings, and the current governement wants to attach strings that are contrary to the mission of Christians.

Why do people not like Rick Warren?

I have nothing against the man, but his preaching and his theology is very shallow.  I read his purpose driven books and came away disappointed.  There was zero depth.  It's almost as if he waters down the message to reach the widest audience possible.  It makes no difference how wide your reach is if your message lacks any depth, IMHO.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Ministries Should Refuse Gov't Aid
« Reply #18 on: Sun Mar 10, 2013 - 08:30:44 »
The thread was speaking of the United States was it not?  That was my understanding........if I was wrong, then my bad.........however, if the thread is about the United States, then in my opinion, the Constitution should certainly be a part of the discussion

The OP was on churches receiving aid from the US government. My comment was in response to a question about why the government was doing that and trying to control our faith.  My answer was a general principle of fallen man. It predates the constitution by about 5000 years.

 

     
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