Author Topic: Need help with a UN-believer  (Read 3547 times)

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Offline grams

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Need help with a UN-believer
« on: Mon Sep 12, 2011 - 11:04:11 »
I am talking to this person and , cant seem to find the right words, to make
her think !   She is a very smart person, and went to a Catholic school .
But now is turned away.

Maybe some one can help me with this ?  I pray !
Thank you for any help !

SHE  said..........

Paraphrase: God loves Man so much that if Man doesn't worship God, God will eternally torment Man.

*************
I  SAID>>>>>>>

Its your choice !

Look what Satin is doing to you !

Putting all that trash in your brain.

He knows who to go after.
A bright mind like yours will surely help him a lot .

He knows how to trick you .

He has been doing this to you from the start.

A little here a little there, just enough of the right word to catch you like a fish.
He knows how to pick them.

He also did a great job on Eve ! Did you see that ?

Of course you would rather worship satin !
He's waiting for you. To make the right move!
Your getting there fast . And you don't even see it !


SHE said.....................

i don't worship satin, or even velvet.

I don't believe in the existence of supernatural beings, not gods or devils.

Is it not fair to say it all boils down to: "God loves Man so much that if Man doesn't worship God, God will eternally torment Man." This is pretty much exactly what you are saying after all the scripture talk is pulled out. God loves us so much that he'll torture us if we don't love him back.

Offline FireSword

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #1 on: Mon Sep 12, 2011 - 12:13:12 »
Tell her to go to www.tentmaker.org


It might not be catholic as you desire, but being a christian is better than being a non christian.

From my own personal experience the site has helped me a lot to get closer to God.


Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #2 on: Mon Sep 12, 2011 - 15:32:55 »
Tell her to go to www.tentmaker.org


It might not be catholic as you desire, but being a christian is better than being a non christian.

From my own personal experience the site has helped me a lot to get closer to God.




Thank you very much !

Only thing is do you really think a person who does not want to know God would really go there and read all of that ?

I started to read it my self and got bored...  Sorry!  Thank you very much for trying to help.

I myself am not Catholic , I was for 50 years.

Our children helped us to get saved.
And to know who God is !

But for some one who  does not want to know , or believe in GOD.
And has said a few things I did not care to hear.

I need some thing  short quick and to the point.

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #3 on: Tue Sep 13, 2011 - 10:50:41 »
I sure was hoping for a little help here.

This lady, really is a smart cookie and I just cant get through to her.

That we do have a God and HE is Awesome. 

She is here own god I guess ? 

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 16, 2011 - 15:05:58 »
I tried again  after I posted here.

And I am still waiting for a answer.   

I guess I just do not have the right words for it to sink in for her ?

I just do not want to give up.   How she is so intelligent in every thing else, and not
understanding this?

Not to want to believe in GOD  !   

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 16, 2011 - 15:05:58 »



HRoberson

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #5 on: Tue Sep 20, 2011 - 11:58:15 »
Hers is a misunderstanding of Man's purpose and what salvation is. She does seem pretty smart because what most Evangelicals tell you is just precisely that. Which means, they don't get it either.

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #6 on: Tue Sep 20, 2011 - 12:23:23 »
Tell her to go to www.tentmaker.org


It might not be catholic as you desire, but being a christian is better than being a non christian.

From my own personal experience the site has helped me a lot to get closer to God.




Thank you very much !

Only thing is do you really think a person who does not want to know God would really go there and read all of that ?

I started to read it my self and got bored...  Sorry!  Thank you very much for trying to help.

I myself am not Catholic , I was for 50 years.

Our children helped us to get saved.
And to know who God is !

But for some one who  does not want to know , or believe in GOD.
And has said a few things I did not care to hear.

I need some thing  short quick and to the point.


God is there at the Holy Mass in the Holy Eucharist - how sad that you did not meet Him there.

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #7 on: Tue Sep 20, 2011 - 16:20:35 »
I guess as I did not learn much at the Catholic Church, neither did she !

You cant learn all you need with out a bible.  And that is what went on at our
church.....   

I know some Catholic Churches may be better then this !

But there is no reason that they should not have one !

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #8 on: Tue Sep 20, 2011 - 16:59:27 »
I guess as I did not learn much at the Catholic Church, neither did she !

You cant learn all you need with out a bible.  And that is what went on at our
church.....    

I know some Catholic Churches may be better then this !

But there is no reason that they should not have one !

The Litugy of the Church consists of the Bible! Just because it is printed in a liturgical form (Missal) does not make it any less the Holy Scriptures than a Bible on your lap. I've heard it said that we go through the complete Bible in any 3 year period.

But let's see though, at Mass we have the first reading which is from the Old Testament, the second reading from the New Testament, then we have a reading from the Holy Gospel. We have the  "kiss" of peace, and you do remember the Holy Eucharist, don't you? St. Justin Martyr describes our worship service around 167AD and it is basically how we Catholics worship today. Look it up, you might find it interesting.

I know that it's not all your fault. I received the same poor teaching as regards the faith as you, and only rediscovered the great treasure of the Roman Church as an adult. I have been to other Christian worship services and besides Eastern Orthodoxy, nothing else comes close.

But don't believe that we don't have the Holy Bible. We certainly do and are encouraged to read it often. As I said before, the Liturgy IS the Bible, the living, active, alive bible, not just a book.

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #9 on: Wed Sep 21, 2011 - 05:28:41 »
Ladonia
Can you help me with my question ?

What do you tell some one who  does not believe in God or Satan ?


Offline Ladonia

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #10 on: Wed Sep 21, 2011 - 11:04:46 »
Ladonia
Can you help me with my question ?

What do you tell some one who  does not believe in God or Satan ?



I would tell them that there is a physical world  and  a spiritual world. The forces of evil exist here on earth, hence you have the good and the bad. The good is represented by God and the evil by Satan. In the end God has a plan for us, He wants us to return to him at the end of this earthly journey. That plan is to believe in his Son, Jesus Christ and strive to live a holy life.

The whole thing can be hard to understand at times and that is why we need to have this thing called faith to help explain the unexpainable. Other than that I don't know else what could be said to your friend. The good and the bad, God and Satan makes sense to me and then I go from there. I gues that at this point the only thing anyone could possibly do would be to pray for this person so that they could recognize this reality. Evil spirits do exist and they can only be defeated by believing in God.

Perhaps you could tell this person of demon poesessions that required exorcisms. Mention the "near death" experiences that people have had and have been recorded. Tell this person about Padre Pio, a priest who had the stigmata, the wounds of Christ. Tell them about Joyce Meyer and all she has overcome with the help of Our Lord. I don't know, is this person that blind to the things they see around them as regards sprituality? Let us know what happens. Good luck.

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #11 on: Wed Sep 21, 2011 - 12:59:39 »
Ladonia ,   this person knows all of that pretty much.

She is a very smart cookie.   But there is some thing that turned her away.

And I do not know her personally, but some thing should be able to make her
change her mind as it did to begin with.   

The main thing is she did not want to know a God that would do such evil to man.

That is what keeps coming up.....

Offline Ladonia

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #12 on: Wed Sep 21, 2011 - 14:04:02 »
Ladonia ,   this person knows all of that pretty much.

She is a very smart cookie.   But there is some thing that turned her away.

And I do not know her personally, but some thing should be able to make her
change her mind as it did to begin with.   

The main thing is she did not want to know a God that would do such evil to man.

That is what keeps coming up.....

I know this can be quite difficult at times. I have some sort of the same problem with my step-daughter. Another smart one who finds it hard to understand certain things.

Well, other than saying it is not God our creator who did evil to us, but us (our souls) collectively who disobeyed God. Now, for whatever reason we have to do this journey here on earth.

The fact is, God is the one who saved us by coming to earth Himself in the form of His Son Jesus Christ. Does anyone think he was really happy that because of us He had to come here? But His love for us is so great He did just that.

I'm trying to think of that saying about life. I think it goes something like this: Life is a mystery to be lived, not reasoned with. Or something like that. It's all a mystery - we are here and that's it. We can only make the best of it, do right unto others and see what happens at the end.

This person will have to figure it all out by themselves in the end. We can only offer bit's of information and the rest is up to them. Not much we can do really. Just keep things positive with them. Hope that's a little more help. God bless and good luck!

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #13 on: Wed Sep 21, 2011 - 20:16:22 »
Thank you very much  Ladonia,  that sounds good.   Only hope it will wake , or give her an idea .   Hope you also will do well with your  step daughter. 

I have learned one thing not to jump to fast to soon .   I did this with my best girl friend when I got saved.   I did not know any thing and yet I was preaching.   What a blunder that was.   Hope God helps you ! 

Offline Humility

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #14 on: Tue Sep 27, 2011 - 11:04:07 »
Faith is not something another human can instill.

Your friend is obviously reasoning God out of existence which is a very easy thing to do.  Reason and logic will not point you to God... love and faith will, however.  And for this reason, you cannot talk your friend into faith just as you cannot talk someone into love, it can only be believed and experienced. 

Try to describe what love is to someone who does not believe in or has never experienced love - it would sound wondrous, fulfilling, and mystical but if that person has not fully experienced it, your words do very little to convey the true meaning of it.

Words are no match for feeling.  Stop talking about God's existence and start showing her.  Show her beauty in life, show her the proliferation of love, of humanity, of humility and service.  God is everywhere but only visible through unclouded eyes. Prove through your actions that God is present.  Prove through your understanding that God is present.  Prove by your support and caring that God is present.  There is no quicker way to turn someone away from God than insisting that they believe in Him.   A smile and an arm around her shoulder will win the debate in your favor, not rhetoric and theology.


Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #15 on: Fri Oct 14, 2011 - 17:11:24 »
Hello Humility,

Well , I guess I have not given all the facts!

I do not talk to this person, she is the owner of a forum.
So I only post to her.

She also went to Catholic school .

She says she does not want to know a God who kills   baby's.

Offline Humility

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #16 on: Mon Oct 17, 2011 - 07:58:58 »
Actually, I understood everything you said.  These new facts don't change my advise. 

You're obviously looking for a trump card to prove the existence of God.  There isn't one.  Good luck.

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #17 on: Mon Oct 17, 2011 - 15:42:28 »

Words are no match for feeling.  Stop talking about God's existence and start showing her.  Show her beauty in life, show her the proliferation of love, of humanity, of humility and service.  God is everywhere but only visible through unclouded eyes. Prove through your actions that God is present.  Prove through your understanding that God is present.  Prove by your support and caring that God is present.  There is no quicker way to turn someone away from God than insisting that they believe in Him.   A smile and an arm around her shoulder will win the debate in your favor, not rhetoric and theology.
Actually, I understood everything you said.  These new facts don't change my advise. 

You're obviously looking for a trump card to prove the existence of God.  There isn't one.  Good luck.

So Humility,

How do I put this down on a post ?
Any ideas ? 

Offline Catholica

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #18 on: Mon Oct 17, 2011 - 16:10:21 »
I am talking to this person and , cant seem to find the right words, to make
her think !   She is a very smart person, and went to a Catholic school .
But now is turned away.

Maybe some one can help me with this ?  I pray !
Thank you for any help !

SHE  said..........

Paraphrase: God loves Man so much that if Man doesn't worship God, God will eternally torment Man.

What if a person doesn't love God when they die?  They could not care less about God, or worse, they outrightly reject God.  They live for themselves, for their own desires.

When that person gets to heaven, all there is to do is worship God.

Would God force a person to worship him for all eternity?

It would be worse to force such a person into heaven then to give him what he does in fact love: himself, and isolation from God.   Unfortunately that is the ultimate torment for an immortal soul.

Thus God will only bring us to heaven if we love Him.  And the more we know Him, the more we know to how much he deserves our worship.  The less we know Him, the less we know He deserves our worship, but even the unwashed masses who choose to do good according to the grace offered them in their heart by God can still be saved, even though they haven't explicitly accepted God, they have acted as if they did, and so they can be saved.

Offline grams

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Re: Need help with a UN-believer
« Reply #19 on: Tue Oct 18, 2011 - 05:28:25 »

Quote
Catholica   said :   
     It would be worse to force such a person into heaven then to give him what he does in fact love: himself, and isolation from God.   Unfortunately that is the ultimate torment for an immortal soul.

Well I sure cant force any one to do that !

But you sure hit upon the  point that did seem to be blocked in my mind !
Telling her how the love of a parent / or some one in the family on this earth.

If I can get the wording correct that would sure be a great help.
Because she is missing some thing and I just cant find that.   So that could be the
help I need.   I sure hope so......

 

     
anything